So the big news of the day in the world of computers - Microsoft have reported their first ever drop in revenue over the previous year since going public in 1996. From Forbes:

Computer giant Microsoft reported earnings of 33 cents per share, with a net income of $2.98 billion, a decrease of 32% from the same period in 2008. Third-quarter revenue came in at $13.65 billion, a 6% decline from the same period of the prior year.

Apple, however, aren't doing too badly, with revenue up 8.7% over the previous year.

What a time to be alive, eh? I remember back in the day when seeing something with the Apple logo was a shock. After being at GDC recently and seeing the sheer number of tech-savvy games developers that have adopted the MacBooks, I think it's fair to say the tables have turned on Microsoft in the desktop world - while they're still dominant, Apple are most definitely in the game.

While I am a mac fanboi, I would say that the only reason Apple hasn't had a similar drop is due to their iPhone sales. That being said though, iPod sales should be dropping a lot too, not sure if the iPhone would make all that back up. Though 1 billion appstore downloads wouldn't hurt either :D

Apple may have done ok revenue wise over the year, but the value of the company has copped a hiding (just like all the others). Last year, Apple stocks where trading over $190 / share. They hit a low point of $78.20 (around Jan09) and are now back up to $125.40.

This is still a lot of value wiped off the company but at least they are clawing their way back now.

Tech-savvy games developers that have adopted the MacBooks

Apple are most definitely in the game.

Was there a hidden joke in the second quote, about how how apples cant acutally play games.

If all the games developers have mac's, why arent there ore mac games.

If all the games developers have mac's, why arent there ore mac games.

do people still pay money for games?

its probably referring to flash game developers.

If all the games developers have mac's, why arent there ore mac games.

Yes, I was pondering that same question. I guess at the moment it's still early days for this newfound Mac revolution. I suspect though we'll start seeing more cross platform games in the near future, especially now with the iPhone out and even more potential there for porting opportunities.

urr... how many big companies do you know of who use macs?

I can think of... oh... probably about... none.

The fact the Microsoft had a drop in profit, during this "GFC" is hardly suprising. They still made a profit... I hardly see it as a bad outcome.

edit: neither does the market - shares up 0.75%. Their 3rd QTR guidance is also looking pretty bleak - below market estimates.

last edited by mongie at 14:07:21 24/Apr/09

there are mac games... there is like ... dark castle.. &, yeh, dark castle! :D

Here's some other interesting MS numbers. Stats for the entertainment division, rather than MS as a whole. http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=23340

WoW is on mac!

dam that would have been a good time to buy some shares

there are lots of games supported by mac

http://www.apple.com/games/articles/

last edited by TiT at 14:30:37 24/Apr/09

If all the games developers have mac's, why arent there ore mac games.

Probably because Macs are overpriced and inflexible making them undesirable as gaming machines.

Just because they build games on Macs doesn't mean they expect there to be a market for games on Macs. They build cars with giant robotic arms but they don't build cars for giant robotic arms, that would just be stupid.

Yeah, games on the mac are a bit of a misconception, list is here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Macintosh_games

I've copied down some of the more popular ones because noone ever seems to click a link before speaking s*** about osx and games...? Flame away...

Age of Empires
Age of Empires II: Gold Edition
Age of Empires III
Aliens vs. Predator
Alone in the Dark
Baldur's Gate
Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Battlefield 1942 Deluxe Edition
Battlefield 2142
Beyond Castle Wolfenstein
Black & White
Black & White 2
Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templars
Call of Duty
Call of Duty 2
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
Carmageddon
City of Heroes
City of Villains
Civilization II
Civilization III
Civilization III: Complete Edition
Civilization IV
Civilization IV: Warlords
Command & Conquer
Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars
Command & Conquer: Generals
Crash Bandicoot (video game)
Crash Bandicoot 2: Cortex Strikes Back
Crash Bandicoot 3: Warped
Day of the Tentacle
Descent
Deus Ex
Diablo
Diablo II
Doom
Doom II
Doom 3
Duke Nukem 3D
Dungeon Siege
Escape from Monkey Island
EVE Online
Fallout
Fallout 2
Full Throttle
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
Guitar Hero: Aerosmith
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock
Halo: Combat Evolved
Homeworld 2
Icewind Dale
Lego Indiana Jones: The Original Adventures
Lego Star Wars: The Video Game
Max Payne
MDK
Neverwinter Nights
Neverwinter Nights 2
No One Lives Forever
Sid Meier's Pirates!
Prey
Prince of Persia (1989)
Prince of Persia (2008)
Prince of Persia 2: The Shadow and the Flame
Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones
Quake
Quake II
Quake III
Quake 4
Return to Castle Wolfenstein
Return to Zork
Rise of Nations
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six
Settlers 2
SimCity 2000
SimCity 3000
SimCity 4
The Sims
The Sims 2
Sonic The Hedgehog (video game)
Sonic The Hedgehog 2
Sonic The Hedgehog 3
StarCraft
StarCraft: Brood War
Star Wars: Dark Forces
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
Star Wars: Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
Star Wars: Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast
Super Mario Kart
Super Mario World
System Shock
Theme Park
Tomb Raider
Total Annihilation
Unreal
Unreal Tournament
Unreal Tournament 2003
Unreal Tournament 2004
Vampire: The Masquerade - Redemption
Warcraft: Orcs & Humans
Warcraft II: Battle.Net Edition
Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos
Wipeout 2097
Wolfenstein 3D
World of Warcraft
Worms

Now tell us how many of them came out within 6 months of their PC and console equivalents.

Super Mario Kart, Super Mario World

Yeah i dont think so, but the rest of the list is more than i though, have to give quake a try.

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/6125/aaplvsmsft.png

Apple's stock is going relatively quite well.

GFC and Vista.

Pretty much...

vs. Ipod & Itunes.

what big companies that use macs. pretty much any graphics/video/music companies.

not to mention loads of others that have made the switch due to integration of iphone apps.

games: already covered... as to whether they were released within 6months or not, is in the past. Macs are now becoming more and more mainstream, and with the growing market share, games will be ported closer and closer to other release dates. To the point when they will be built side by side and released at the same time. As trog said, the developers have adopted mac as their prefered machine. HOWEVER they still have to design and build for the market, not themselves. PC machines still out number macs by a long way, but that margin decreases daily.

I still use a pc as my main machine because i have to, for the work i do. But with native dual boot OSX and windows on my laptop now, i find i use it far more. My main machine is becoming more and more a torrent and HTPC machine.

games: already covered... as to whether they were released within 6months or not, is in the past.

It's not in the past. It's extremely relevant. A lot of games don't even get ported. Name one game that recently got released that got ported.

You're such a fanboy is disgusting. Apple being mainstream has such a long way to go.

The first few months accounts for most of a game's revenue. I'd say its important.

what big companies that use macs. pretty much any graphics/video/music companies.

HAHA, this is just a misconception spread by Apple marketing. While Macs do have a larger foothold in this industry than they do in any other, it's mainly because they have a lot of design schools using Macs, so a lot of graphic designers learn to do their work on Macs. Most graphic designers and musicians I know prefer Windows over Mac. Again, this is probably just because that's what they know how to use, no system is inherently better for these tasks. Almost any video production company and CG graphics company will use some flavour of Linux, Solaris or other Unix based thing. This is a result of the days when these industries were the only ones working with files that were multiple gigabytes in size, and mainstream OS's (i.e. Windows and Mac OS) could not handle file sizes that big).

After spending the last couple of days making sprite sheets on a Mac, I can't see how graphic design is any better on the Mac than it is on the Windows. Go on, I dare a Mac fanboy to explain it to me without using marketing rhetoric or anecdotal evidence. I do game development on a Mac, but only because I have to rather than wanting to.

The reason there are less games on Mac is because most games are made for DirectX, which is usually a bit easier to make a game in than something like OpenGL. Since you can't get DirectX on a Mac, you can't get those games without an extensive conversion process. If you look through the list posted earlier, you'll find a big chunk of those games are from id software. That's because they use OpenGL and OpenAL for their games.

I've copied down some of the more popular ones because noone ever seems to click a link before speaking s*** about osx and games...? Flame away...

Wait...you didn't include pong or space invaders in your list. Surely you wouldn't want to cut off such cutting edge games from their massive lineup?

Apple will never be mainstream until the systems they have are cheaper. There machines can be beat by a something that costs a 1/3 the price.

It's not in the past. It's extremely relevant. A lot of games don't even get ported. Name one game that recently got released that got ported.

EA games released from now on, blizzard games, and a fair few other games the PC CD/DVD also has a mac installer. Ports do take ages, which is annoying, but newer tech means they can make standard releases also compatible with OS-X (as long as they aren't tied in heavily with d3d).

HAHA, this is just a misconception spread by Apple marketing. While Macs do have a larger foothold in this industry than they do in any other, it's mainly because they have a lot of design schools using Macs, so a lot of graphic designers learn to do their work on Macs.

No, its because the desktop publishing industry grew up on macs. Macs at design schools are a result, not a cause.

Most graphic designers and musicians I know prefer Windows over Mac. Again, this is probably just because that's what they know how to use, no system is inherently better for these tasks.

Colour profile are a crapload easier to deal with in OS-X. Musicians, erm, I assume they don't use Pro Logic? Are they using an pro tools setup instead?

Almost any video production company and CG graphics company will use some flavour of Linux, Solaris or other Unix based thing. This is a result of the days when these industries were the only ones working with files that were multiple gigabytes in size, and mainstream OS's (i.e. Windows and Mac OS) could not handle file sizes that big).

Perhaps for the backend, but for the front-end, um, Final Cut Pro. And now that Apple has Final Cut Server with xgrid integration things are starting to change back-end wise. Whats windows got, Premiere? olol. Only real competition that I can think of is AVID, which blows the cost of FCP out of the water.

After spending the last couple of days making sprite sheets on a Mac, I can't see how graphic design is any better on the Mac than it is on the Windows. Go on, I dare a Mac fanboy to explain it to me without using marketing rhetoric or anecdotal evidence. I do game development on a Mac, but only because I have to rather than wanting to.

Its personal preference, macs have much better PDF support (being that the OS is rendering with PDF), colour profiles are easier to manage, and because its an application-centric interface its generally more efficient to work than using a window-centric interface especially for design work. Although Adobe has pretty much screwed this over in cs4.

The reason there are less games on Mac is because most games are made for DirectX, which is usually a bit easier to make a game in than something like OpenGL. Since you can't get DirectX on a Mac, you can't get those games without an extensive conversion process. If you look through the list posted earlier, you'll find a big chunk of those games are from id software. That's because they use OpenGL and OpenAL for their games.

Indeed. Its the same issue as porting to PS3.


last edited by simul at 19:00:13 25/Apr/09

Where I work all computers are max and backend is os x, centos on netapp products. Not a big company but it is out there. And were not a graphics designer place.

Perhaps for the backend, but for the front-end, um, Final Cut Pro. And now that Apple has Final Cut Server with xgrid integration things are starting to change back-end wise. Whats windows got, Premiere? olol. Only real competition that I can think of is AVID, which blows the cost of FCP out of the water.

Y'know, mac users waffle on and on about Final Cut Pro so when getting into video editing i was aching to give it a try. Got it all set up and tried a few diff windows ones as well as FCP on a mac and it was Sony's Vegas Studio that I settled with because I just found it ridiculously more intuitive and seems just as powerful in it's professional incarnation. Looking around video editing forums etc, general consensus seems pretty much parity.

Vegas is a nice piece of software for video editing, the killer for FCP/FCS comes in with regards to the workflow, being able to work on my laptop with low res clips, sync back over the project files and have it all working with HD clips straight away, quick switch to color for phenomenal colour correction, throw in a motion layer over the top, bam bam bam. I like FCP because it doesn't try to do everything, because the rest of the FCS does powerful special stuff already, and it integrates in nicely. And overall its very cheap for what you get, at least compared to Vegas Pro (FCS is only about 4x the price of Vegas IIRC). Just my thoughts anyway.

WoW is on mac!

Yet more evidence that mac's are gay

Of course OS X is superior - Windows has barely improved for a decade. It's all about user experience. If you don't get it then keep using Windows XP, it does everything, right.

LOL. My company employs 4500 people across Australia. When I said "big companies" I meant offices with more than a thousand employees sort ofthing... Not 20 employee "massive" design studios. Get real. Business penetration for macs is s***. Always has been. Allways will be.

I meant offices with more than a thousand employees sort ofthing

Name a place in Brisbane, where a graphics designer might hope to work, with over a thousand employees?

The largest and most internationally successfull marketing houses here has about maybe 30-50 people in the office. All using Apple computers.

30-50 people and they are considered one of the biggest players in the industry, so I don't what smack you're talking about 1000 employees.

And it's not just the volume of apple computers, it's the fact that the most expensive computer that sits in a room by itself, that they pay a guy 100 bucks an hour to use because he is the only one to know how to use the software, is a mac.





last edited by thermite at 09:02:51 26/Apr/09

Of course OS X is superior - Windows has barely improved for a decade. It's all about user experience. If you don't get it then keep using Windows XP, it does everything, right.

Oh god! He's back and he's telling us Windows hasn't changed in a decade again!

The largest and most internationally successfull marketing houses here has about maybe 30-50 people in the office. All using Apple computers.

30-50 people and they are considered one of the biggest players in the industry, so I don't what smack you're talking about 1000 employees.

No, its because the desktop publishing industry grew up on macs. Macs at design schools are a result, not a cause.

This is the kind of advertising rhetoric I was talking about. What proof do you have of this? Apple has one of, if not the best, marketing teams in the world. Congratulations; you have been suckered in. Here's an example for you: Think about how much internal graphic design and desktop publishing goes on in the state government for all their propaganda and paraphernalia (hint: it's a LOT). Sure, a lot of people I have spoken to in this field learned their skills on a Mac, but I've never seen a Mac in a government office. Ever.

LOL. My company employs 4500 people across Australia. When I said "big companies" I meant offices with more than a thousand employees sort ofthing... Not 20 employee "massive" design studios. Get real. Business penetration for macs is s***. Always has been. Allways will be.

wow you must be a billionaire

Think about how much internal graphic design and desktop publishing goes on in the state government for all their propaganda and paraphernalia (hint: it's a LOT). Sure, a lot of people I have spoken to in this field learned their skills on a Mac, but I've never seen a Mac in a government office. Ever.

Have you seen the s*** design stuff government departments produce? I'm more than glad to know that a mac has never touched that disaster zone. :D

You remember me Kos? :D at least I'm not doing anything annoying like arguing against the apple tax

or defending the importance of user experience and beautiful software. You know, the stuff that apple have been acing for years, that people here don't seem to understand. It's all just dumbed down, right?

You're right, that would be annoying.

Just buy which ever one suits your needs... is that so difficult a concept?

Macs to me have always been used by people who can't use a computer, mostly women it seems.

The largest and most internationally successfull marketing houses here has about maybe 30-50 people in the office. All using Apple computers.

30-50 people and they are considered one of the biggest players in the industry, so I don't what smack you're talking about 1000 employees.

Urr... the original comment was "woah dude, lots of people use mac's - you know... graphic designers and marketers etc."

My point is that those industries do not account for much. They don't employ many staff, so there is little need for thousands of pc's. Other industries where PC's are dominant, often use a MUCH LARGER NUMBER OF COMPUTERS.

If there were 100 companies with 30-50 Macs, that'd still be nothing compared to Windows deploys

argh.

Not sure whether you're agreeing with me, or saying the same thing, or making some sort of snide comment at my post.

I'm waiting to see the impact Windows 7 has on the computing world. I've been running the beta exclusively since it was out, and I'll be upgrading to RC1 when I get home tonight. I've found it to be absolutely awesome, and from everything I've read, I'm not alone. Pretty sure it'll work out in Microsoft's favour.

Well it looks and operates a lot like vista (which is good) but runs even faster than XP.

I think its going to be very popular.

Do you play games much, Midda? I'm keen to give Windows 7 a crack, I'm just worried that I'll be stuck without my fix of Left 4 Dead ><

Seems to work fine Crizane. I was playing L4D on Win7 with the ATI beta cats.

It was running awesome until my ram shat itself.

Yeah the only problem with gaming on Win 7 I've had so far was Quake Live running at 1fps for some crazy reason. I probably could have fixed it by trying out some different drivers but I couldn't be f***ed. All my Steam games are fine, and FEAR 2 is the most recent thing I've played on it with out any issues.

argh.

Not sure whether you're agreeing with me, or saying the same thing, or making some sort of snide comment at my post.

I'm totally agreeing with you, mac has zero business penetration compared to windows

Do you play games much, Midda? I'm keen to give Windows 7 a crack, I'm just worried that I'll be stuck without my fix of Left 4 Dead ><

I play heaps of games, they run great. Left 4 Dead runs better now than ever, so I'm sure you'll be fine. =)

Mac indeed has absolute zero business penetration, those that argue otherwise are just crazed fan boys. You have to give Apple credit though, the simple fact that they have been able to create such evangelical fans is a great marketing triumph.

Edit: Looking for stats doesn't return any great results, though it looks as though by Jan 08 Vista alone had 100 million licenses shipped, this isn't even counting XP or NT (NT base is massive in governments).

last edited by Viper119 at 22:13:22 27/Apr/09