Well, thats another big (larger than last lan) lan wrapped up.

This LAN was also a shift back to static IP addressing instead of DHCP, which didn't give anywhere near as many errors as the DHCP has given at previous LANs. Maybe we'll be sticking with static?

With 400 people there for Saturday, and close to that for Sunday, the mere atmosphere of it was pretty damn good in my opinion.

In regards to setup, I'd like to thank everyone who came along and helped out with whatever they could. Your contributions made it a lot easier.

It's also Queensland's second round of the Ausgamers League, in which Counter-Strike, Quake3 duel, and StarCraft were played, and which have set the stage for an awesome third round of the AGL to be played up here in QLD at the next lan.

FD came out on top of the QLD results again, followed by mP, and Helpme. Congrats to all who took part in this round regardless of win or lose.

The Quake3 Duel rankings from this second round here in QLD are as follows. Huma (otherwise known as limps), followed by Yangsta, then Knossos for the top three.

For the starcraft results for here in QLD (I'm a bit too tired to do the national ones, and as some states havent played the second round yet, it wouldn't be a fair or true indication), we have Muha in first place, followed by Keeper in second place, then Mogs in third place.

Congrats once again to all who have taken part in the AGL so far, win or lose in the outcomes of their matches.

Our only problems this lan seem to have been with a couple of the 3-phase boxes scattered about the place at the venue (which provide us with uber amounts of power to power our PCs), and a couple of little problems on the switches.

A good lan, a great group of gamers, and an awesome atmosphere. Thanks for making this lan our biggest yet (whats next, 450?)

good work ppl... next time im gonna come this is the first lan i missed in the last 4 lans ih well.. well yeha whatwas all the rounds n stuff liek what happened in q3a and cs? thanx for the review cyph

hehe congrat FD. Next lan need 500 ppl.

you guys should have a LAN "after party"

jsut wondering how many ppls where at the first and 2nd QGL?

superboss - we'd be stuffed for 500 people in there, venue wouldnt take it i dont think.

450 if we're lucky, 425 if we're realistic about space (and the fact that some people spread their stuff out over a table for 3 meaning only two people can sit there)

You forgot to mention who won the Day of Defeat comp!

CS clans SAS and mP combined to form...

RQR - Redneck Queensland Regiment

We beat the QGL Admins, CS clan FD, and previous DoD champs HDC, to take out this illustrious competition!

As our interest in CS fades, DoD emerges as a f***ing fun alternative :)

DoD rawks!

true strex.

Congrats to RQR on beating everyone at QGL, and only JUST beating FD at DOD by 6 (ONE CAPTURE) in a tense match

yeah the lan rocked, hoever next lan PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT! hire the same 3phase distroboards as u did this time, ours was utter s***e.

other than that, j0rsome

squarky - afaik we probably just say "can we have *so many* 3-phase distribution things (whatever word is), and they just pick em.

Furthermore, its probably a problem of the gamers daisy-chaining so many powerboards onto one another its not funny.

By SquarkyD

yeah true, the admin i spoke to (sorry cant remember the name) said they were different to the previous LAN's, from memmory they looked a stack different too.

it's beeen the only qgl where i've had problems of any sort (other than getting smaqed down in the CS comp:)

oh and necra was threting to kill me all day :P

Great Lans guys. Pity the farking DoD server we were trying to war on crashed 4 times.. but anyway.

GO HELPME!
3rd in QLD, dont we just own! :)

thanks to Joan (Rips), Azaria, BrotherLynChung, Trotsky and JimmyD for forming an excellent helpme team!

Id just like to say props to SAS and mP, for creating a super, super clan that took out the event :)
both teams, being fairly unskilled in dod (as in, having make a quarter playing the game before) made for a fun day, with the attempt of transferring other fps skills to it (i was pretty annoyed by the lack of bullet dodge)

But yeah, HDC want to regain their crown, and you can expect a tougher fight next qgl Strex :)

Awesome, awesome game. got a little bit away from us with them beating us 263 to 154, with them as allied and us as axis, but we showed them we could handle the pace, beating them 140-70 odd. so again, well done and i hope to see this game get more and more popular.

hehe kewl tung :P none of us play dod, played it a few time at qgl on the weekend, but to tae the DoD title this lan was awesome. yes we did cretae a super clan out of mp and SAS but next qgl we will dominate DoD :P

RQR for eva :P

no one answerd my question how many pl were at the first and 2nd qgl?

man o man was that lan ever awesome
no problems what so ever for our area, was absolutely awesome.

the CS matches owned and the dod ones were awesome too

thanks to Fi, mP and SAS for the CS competition, farken 3 great games!#@@$

and to SOM and RQR for the DoD matches, you have inspired me, and the FD guys to play more DoD, so expect to see us next QGL firing up DoD :D
man strexy that was one hell of a game on sicily :)
6 whole points...dayum =)

will cya all next QGL for some more fast paced cs n dod action :D

One of the main problems was one dodge phase power supply. I think at one point it tripped with only a phone charger plugged into it.

i trying to find Opera. not just there dmn make it then next LAN REMEMBER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was glad that xp worked flawlessly at the lan too! thanks to everyone who helped (squarky and tung!) me setup my stuff and get it togther, be the first of many qgl lan's i'll be attending!

Yeah great LAN QGL Admin, awesome stuff, just a few minor problems on Saturday with power on our side but nothing serious. My highlight was beating DDS in CS Comp, woot woot.

Best QGL yet for me.

Awesome CS on saturday - a really tense game against mP on prod and good matches against Fi and SAS :)

What I particularly enjoyed this LAN was the range of games played. I played in the CS comp, then had a few duals in the Q3 comp. Come sunday it was DOD and UT which owned, particularly DOD which turned out to be an AWESOME clan experience which I'll be looking forward to next QGL. Previously I found the 2 day QGL's to be really packed on saturday but a leech session on Sunday. The new comps changed this - it rocked :D

Hats off to RQR (lol) for taking out DOD and big thanks to the admins that spent 50 hours under that roof running a great LAN :D

RQR won by about 1 game a peice, 40 points better :) Nice and close.


That was probably the two best games of DoD I have ever played, It was very obvious that all of you guys where either used to playing on the same side, or against each other so you had a understanding of how you all moved and thought processes.

Not to mention the style of play you guys used has got our grey matter thinking of how to own you next time.

Great games:)

Yeah I watched a fair few DoD games, and they all looked really close and fun. Same with some of the CS games - the FD vs mP match was really intense.

It was a pity about the power problems - they went on a little longer than expected due to the dodgy 3-phase board, however mad props to ANZ for getting someone out to fix it ASAP for us.

We also blew a whole heap of ANZ's power apparently (ie all the power inside the sports club went out), so that was rather interesting :)

That was an awesome lan, thanks to the admin for setting everything up so well. Thanks to nathan for the SQ program (havnt used it much, but didnt screw up at all =P).

Also, thanks to the admins at the end for giving us helpers pizza (that was my dinner =P).

P.S. did anyone see that wacky case made out of lego? weird stuff :)

Also, it was a great lan for the ideas i picked up for a case mod (or many that is, one can never have enough case mods).

Oh, and thanks to all the Q3 players i played for kicking my arse and making me realise that i need to practice more =P

That was a great game, I didnt feel dirty at all for losing to you guys. Well played by everyone. Qgl rocks

-Games
-Internet
-BBQ
-Capt0's ftp server

could lannin get any better

BTW, who was selling corsair RAM, and why didnt anyone tell me? j/k =P

Just going over the pictures atm

yeah good lan, sif those wanna be bread burgers didnt own me :)

Re the power, three out of 16 rows were effected by one of the three phase outlets, as soon as we noticed it happening we rang the electricitan who quickly come down and checked it out.

Basicly we had overloaded one of the phase's, which was causing the board to trip. The sparky had to open up the bronco's changing rooms and we ran some more power out of there, which fixed the problem.

That was easily the *BEST* QGL LAN that I *EVER* went to!

all i can say is after just having 14 hours sleep to catch up on what i missed, that I am happy you all enjoyed the lan.

Oh also the guy in that CS clan caught red handed with Wallhack/Aimbot, LOL, all of us standing behind him and having a good laugh, oh yeah and the guy who could run faster with AWP in his hand then someone standing next to him with a knife :/.

I had 21 hours :D

I went to bed 1pm yesterday and just woke up at 11am today :D

yeah underdog, a clan was caught speed cheating, and someone was using the xqz2 aimbot/hack.

yer good lan, cept for that gay forfiet s***
which really got us pissed off and cbf playing cs after
that,

gg nitro
harder than i thought it would be but ya get that
lookin forward to next round..
where we warz you guys again
and ill make sure deepwh0re feels out da form intime
so tha admins dont have a sook

HDC will rise again!
That last 2 games were some of the best DoD rounds i've played. At least capping all the flags on caen in the dying seconds helped regained some pride.

Congrats to the RQR fellas!

I thought it was an awesome lan, i only played 1 game the whole time i was there, well 4 games of Unreal Tournament

After that i just walked around, played a little EQ etc, i thought it was great =)

Thanks for the games of UT to all the guys that played, good to see some people still play it at least (Thank f*** unleaded didn't play)

=)

Is LAN, Is Good.

MethoD - you were given a BYE (read that as BYE, not FORFEIT), even though whoever was in charge of handing the team form in didnt do it on time.

and then that excuse about the PA not being clearly heard was a good one, when you're about 10 meters to our left and could have come up and asked us.

and ill make sure deepwh0re feels out da form intime
so tha admins dont have a sook

funny, we're not the ones having a sook here method, its you and genocide. Oh, and whinging on the PC forum, so very clever of you.

and I thought mP were alright guys. pity its just a couple of them who ruined that thought.

What will happen to the two clans, exspecially the one with the Aimbot, they should be kicked out of comp....

I do remember when a guy a FRAGS on the Gold Coast used speedhack, he got banned from FRAGS for 1 month, which i thought was a light punishment, but when he used it , he tweaked it so he didnt move much faster then anybody else but of course his bullets also shot out of his gun at a faster rate.

should it really matter about the form cyph??
i pay over f***in $200 each QGL to get down here
and for wat??? get forfiet... woulda even been nice to say over the mic "mP this is your last chance to rego could you plz come up too the front" considering we were right near you guys and you all knew we were ready and waiting

lame

I would have thought then you would have been paying closer attention to the announcements and competitions then.

As much as we'd like to run around and make sure every person gets the information about their games hand-delivered, its not logistically possible.

And, cyph said just above that it was a bye.

Cyph, it still means we didn't get the points we deserved. We were expecting to play FD on cbble, and were prepared for that. I was also straight out at 12 noon when Nats called it, but when he apparently made his original announcement, I was out getting breakfast. I understand it's our fault for not filling out some form, but if in the QGL announcements you say "CS starts at 12noon", then all I presumed was we had to turn up then and say "mP is playing", despite the fact that I know we filled out a form the month before (and yes, I know that we have to do it so you know what players are there, but our players are pretty much always the same anyway). Anyway, I'm over being made an example of anyway - the whole "admin discretion" thing reminded me of CPLP in a few ways, but it was less understandable considering you guys said you considered us to be "a bunch of great guys."

As for the FD vs mP match, my belief is contrary to most peoples - I don't think it was a good game. Firstly, I give you credit for the one round you won as Terrorists when we actually had all our players in the match (the other two rounds you got, you went through the area were you knew our player had crashed out from). As far as Terrorist goes, DeFCoN got to play about 3 rounds, for the rest his PC had crashed out, forcing us to run 5-man strats. Hopefully next time you'll claim such a close match on more even terms, rather than say "gg" when we're a player down for over 10 rounds.

Yeh - DeePer was outside with StreX and I when the matches were called.

And I watched the mP v. FD game aswell...DeF's computer did crash regularly, and they were left a man short for quite awhile.

1 man down in CS makes a big difference...

crashing computers has long been the bane of any competition; unfortunately it has to be treated like a blown car part in a car race or something like that. You can't just restart it because one player drops - it screws up all the timetables. Basically, it means you need to ensure your computer isn't going to crash.

haha

Yeh, DeF should buy a new PC. :)

Yeah, s*** happens :)

If anyone can come up with a better suggestion to let 300+ headphone-wearing, focused-on-their-game gamers know of developments that is better than the PA - we'd love to hear them !

Yer turn the power off when you want to make an announcement. but then that'd give them something else to whine about.

I watched a demo of a euro match and the Admin at the lan paused the match while the player reconnected. Why dont we do that at QGL seems easy to do, you just use the pause option in CS?.

i pay over f***in $200 each QGL to get down here
and for wat??? get forfiet...

Sif youd pay that much just to play CS. I think too many ppl are thinking of QGL as just a competition place. You play comps, you win/lose and thats it. I like to think of it an more a social atmosphere (with comps, and friendly games joined in).

I was probably at my computer for about 50% of the time (not inclusing sleeping), i was chatting, and overall enjoying myself. I reckon you guys take the whole thing ffaarrrrr to seriously.

No, if someone disconnects or thier pc's f*** up its their own fault. And the match should continue. A question i have to ask. Is, when we play a 2 map war. And after the first match we have to wait f***ing 10 minutes to play it. The excuse we got "Oh we're binding keys" I mean ffs. Why not just make it a 1 map round. Would make it faster.... and that way we could play DOD

I saw that excuse when Kaygen was playing. It is a little laim to say that I reckon

Sif youd pay that much just to play CS.

Shotgun, i pay for 3 ppl, my son, niece and I, so thats $75, we had pizzahut thats another $30, Mc Donalds $40, Petrol $20, Snacks $20. So i payed $185 for 3 ppl for 2 days of lanning, and you have to remember Method lives in Bundaburg(i think).

Pausing a game takes no effort so i dont see what the problem is.

Underdog, i understand. I was just refering to his attitude, thats all =\

Did you enjoy yourself?

Yeah we had a great time, Pado and Pistol enjoyed beating mP in the knifing duel, woot woot!!!.

Pausing the game can be bad. I mean if there is "something" that freezes ppl's pc's that'd be cool but if they had to do it manually that'd suk cause theres always some smart arse wannabe who moved move when not allowed. ANd it would still suck cause then you would have clans dropping ppl out on purpose(as they already do) and thus giving them time to work out strats

there is a "pause" option in CS, i saw it on the demo, it said "pause" in middle of screen, and everyone frooze.

well hmm the PA system is gay anyway i think even when i was listen to it i still couldnt understand what u guys where saying..

btw this was at last lan..

Yeah sounded like my muffled grunts when im squeezing out a big turd, PA @ QGL= not good.

fine then, what we'll do is stop the network when we want to make an announcement, because its sure to get your attention.

we had pizzahut thats another $30, Mc Donalds $40

Shoulda eaten at the QGL BBQ of awesomeness!@#

cant you set something up on the network so u can send us a message on-screen that minimizes all apps, games ect.

that would own and you could just make it QGL software, meaning if u wanna get the QGL anouncements then you would just have to download a small proggie

now THAT would be cool!

oh yea, the QGL BBQ was indeed coolness!

those steak burgers owned something chronic!
please o please do this next QGL cause it was hell cheap for a sweet ass healthy (sorta) meal!

mmmm food :P

Trog, one way i suppose you could gain attention is to have a simple overhead projector, or 2, when you turn the lights out (lets say for argument sake it was around the time the announcements were to be made 12 noon was it?) just flick on the overhead projectors with the relevent details of Who plays who...(just a table with squares you fill each month) this means people can't really complain about not knowing because a) the Pa noise and B) the huge annoying light projections that adorn 2 or 3 walls would surely get ppls attention

Actually, trog and VRBones were the only admins on the PA who actually made any sense. Trog's voice is clear, enthusiastic and easy to understand, and Bones actually had the sense to say "can I have your attention please" about 4 times until he made his announcement.

And trog, there is an easy way than PA, it's called ICQ. If that isn't that good an idea (which it isn't), then some sought of built in messaging system. Ie, a blocked channel in IRC, which we can connnect to, and only admins can post important message on. Either than, or some sought of built in integration with messages from a server machine in a later version of Server Query perhaps?

I'd like to see someone else take control over the CS side of things, I mean, I applaude Nats for taking his valuble time to organise something that he clearly dislikes - but perhaps an admin who actually knows the players in the game, as well as keeps up to date with the game would be a good thing.

Oh, this was my first lan where I actually had a chat to Term as well, and I want to thank him for being more generous in his decision than what Nat was (well, I don't know what you guys talked about, and it's not my business, but after you did chat to Term, we ended up a bit closer to where we should be).

Anyway guys, as I said to trog, thanks for the LAN, you all put in a lot of work, and I do always walk away with 10x more positives than negatives.

Yes Boxhead, I like that idea also, but they need to keep the lights on for fire-safety reasons I believe. Perhaps some sought of annoying "beep" would get peoples attention, then an announcement could be made, or an announcement projected onto the big-screen (or both).

No announcements we would have headphones. Why not winpopup or something easy to hell like that. Gawd even Centrelink has it, Someone from a server pc writes a message and a proggy like winmpopup pops up ON TOP of everything and displays the info and you HAVE to close the box before you can do whatever it was you were doing. Just something like that. OR like deeps said, an inbuilt messanger in SQ maybe even a popup one.

Instant messaging in SQ would be awesome, but i doubt nathan has the time to implement something as large as that.

Personally, i think its the responsibilty of the players te recieve the messages, i mean, no. 1 be there on time, and then make sure you hear the messages. Or make sure your teammated hear it then tell you.

yup, microphone announcements are more than enough

if you're doing something that prevents you from hearing the noise of a microphone announcement it means you're not actually that concerned with playing in the comp after all

even if you don't hear what it says, you'd go and find out if you really cared - that's a simple fact

the guys whinging about being forfeited were so concerned with resolving the problem, that they utterly refused to come and see me at the admin area after I asked them to - that's dedication to solving a problem for ya

there's a lot of excuses and unrelated fud being thrown in such as travelling expenses or whatnot, but it all boils down to the fact that the players in question want to blame someone other than themselves rather than being truthful to themselves and admitting their mistake, and taking steps to improve themselves to avoid the same thing happening again.

No announcements we would have headphones. Why not winpopup or something easy to hell like that. Gawd even Centrelink has it, Someone from a server pc writes a message and a proggy like winmpopup pops up ON TOP of everything and displays the info and you HAVE to close the box before you can do whatever it was you were doing. Just something like that. OR like deeps said, an inbuilt messanger in SQ maybe even a popup one.

and

And trog, there is an easy way than PA, it's called ICQ. If that isn't that good an idea (which it isn't), then some sought of built in messaging system. Ie, a blocked channel in IRC, which we can connnect to, and only admins can post important message on. Either than, or some sought of built in integration with messages from a server machine in a later version of Server Query perhaps?

notice my post guys??????
i mean seriously, why keep repeating wat i said! - if u clicked post before u saw mine i appologise for this comment, but grrrrr if u saw it then thought hey thats a good idea, i think ill repeat it and take credit !


but we all obviously think that idea rocks and is probobly easy and affective way to do it.

"yup, microphone announcements are more than enough
if you're doing something that prevents you from hearing the noise of a microphone announcement it means you're not actually that concerned with playing in the comp after all

even if you don't hear what it says, you'd go and find out if you really cared - that's a simple fact"

Actually Jim, I was out there as soon as the announcement was made - because I knew CS comps were due to start at 12 midday. What I DIDN'T know however, was that we had to register on some sheet of paper with our team (again) by a certain, previously unmentioned time (ie, it wasn't mentioned in any of the pre-lan qgl newsposts or e-mails - that I can remember anyway). So basically I assumed come 12 midday, we would be playing in the league, as we ALWAYS do - with the team that was registered to actually be attending the lan.

"the guys whinging about being forfeited were so concerned with resolving the problem, that they utterly refused to come and see me at the admin area after I asked them to - that's dedication to solving a problem for ya"

Actually Jim, I was sitting next to GeNo, and we'd already spoken to both Nats (who seemed to refuse to help and was happy to make an "example" out of us), as well as Term (who seemed to help us out a bit) - so by that point, I decided to leave QGL Admin alone, and let them get on with all the other stuff I'm sure they were busy with. I didn't actually know GeNo had posted there until after everything, so I told him not to bother about the matter, because Nats was the CS organiser and his decision is final anyway.

"and taking steps to improve themselves to avoid the same thing happening again."

And what steps would they be exactly? Considering that everyone was given till 12 midday to arrive, I don't see why there'd be anything so crucial to be announced before that time...Please - I'd really like to hear what "steps" would be needed to improve myself - would you like me to implant some device that can make me decipher the clarity of the sound coming from the PA? Or way in which Nats speaks over the mic? I can perfectly hear trog and Bones...

I've pretty much had a gutful of this issue.

Time to get off your high-horse Deeper; mP is no more or less important to me than any other clan in the Counter-Strike competition.

QGL has had on-the-day sign-up for every competition I can remember being involved in for a long, long time. This isn't "news" to you. You f***ed up by not signing up, so why not have guts and just take it on the chin? The incessant whining by yourself and others in mP is pitiful.

Personally, I would consider yourselves lucky - other admins I've spoken to regarding this issue are none-to-happy with the entirely immature attitude of many individuals within the mP team.

The only reason term said to give you a bye was to stop you lamers from whinging like all f***, which in the end has happened anyway. I had a great deal of respect for you Deeper before this incident, but the way you have reacted is akin to that of a spoilt brat not getting the latest toy bought for him by his mummy. Time to grow up.

As for my "enthusiasm", I have no real enthusiasm for any of the particular games being played in the AusGamers League. That does not, however, prevent me from administrating the CS competition in a courteous and level-handed manner.

I do have a great deal of interest and enthusiasm in promoting "amateur" computer-game competitions as a sport, which I have been involved in at QGL since its inception and online even before that. The manner in which some members of mP have conducted themselves following Saturday's incident is counter-productive to that goal; its simply not on and may not be so readily ignored in the future.

or perhaps mutlipal calls for cs comp like the star craft comp had.

Star Craft was called out at least 5 times, CS comp wasnt called out that often ?

And next QGL have the various forms there READY to fill out as soon as the leader registers. Just like the QGL before this one. saves confusion and rawtings. Or have the forms on a board somewhere to fill out before 12:00 ??? makes sense

anyway Twas a good slaw :D
sif the QGL DoD admin team didnt get owned by RQR !

The CS Comp was announce maybe 7 times during the period of 10:30 through till 11:00. We accepted registration sheets up until 11:30.

I must say though, it was fortunate that the 23 other teams managed to decipher what I was saying, else no one would have registered.

"and then that excuse about the PA not being clearly heard was a good one, when you're about 10 meters to our left and could have come up and asked us."

Cyph thats amusing given DeePer went up and complained saying "you knew mP was here I went and talked to Trog when I got here and had a smoke with Sprinkles etc" and the admins reply was "oh we assumed it was just u that was here not mP"

First of all, how about an admin that is pro-CS that runs the comp, I'd like to suggest Tung, he's a great guy that is actually enthusiastic about the CS comp.
Secondly, is it to much to ask for the admins to bother passwording servers??? Both wars we had people connect to the server during the war, which especially pissed us off vs FD on Prod, given that our positions were clearly viewable from the connection screen to that player, which could give away our positions to the CT's.

Last QGL we walked in the door and the forms were sitting there waiting for clans, this QGL we walk in the door and there are no forms, if u expect us to have to fill out forms each qgl, how about getting one system for it rather than trying to confuse us? and make things more difficult on us?

How about a way to let CS teams sign on for the CS comp pre-qgl? say over the ausgamers regestration system?

Underdog: All CS comps in Europe and the states use the "pause" feature, its a great idea that needs to be implemented in Australia as well. Unfortunately CS comps in Australia are run no where near as professionally or organised as they are overseas, which is sad because it does hold us back from being as competitive as overseas clans, and stops the Pacific from being recognised from being a respectable and competitive CS region.

Another thing was I think there was only one announcement over the CS comp signup, but there was atleast 5 or 6 for the startcraft comp and Q3 comps,
probably a result of the admins lack of interest in CS I suppose.....

Another issue was in the FD war one player from FD crashed so another FD player connected straight away, waited out the round got the cash then quit when Element rejoined, I can only speculate as to what he did. Buy gun with the money and drop it for Ele etc, it also meant they had a ghoster for that round because once u connect for the first round you're connected there is no Fadetoblack on so u can ghost for your players. I crashed out for mP while we were CT's and so we played a man down for 2 rounds because we wanted to play fair. Later when there were about 4 rounds left in the war [SAS]Sprinkles (admin) said it was fine to bring in someone when a player crashes.

I'd like to see this rule gone because a) no fadetoblack b) a player is having a bad game u can replace him if he *crashes* c) a guy is broke (less than 800) let someone else connect and theres some bonus money for the clan..

I'd really like to see an organised CS comp rather a poor excuse for one, and a competition is a direct reflection of the admins who run it, a good comp requires a good and enthusiastic admin who actually cares about the comp being run as effectively and efficiently as possible.

how bout you just eat a dick, all you fagets do is whinge.

instead of bitching about stuff get off your knobs and do something yourself.

the admins put the comp on, its your obligation to enter.
The qgl admins put more effort into these lans than you obviously realise.

I also had a great deal of respect for you before this incident to Nats, and I still have a great deal of respect for you. However, I truly believe that the CS comp should be run "by the gamers, for the gamers" As you said, you have a lot to organise as it is, and yes, I agree that you do do a VERY good job of everything at the LAN. It's a shame that the only thing that made this happen was you not being able to go "click" on your computer, and saying that we had a team. I'm SURE you knew we had a team there, I just think you chose not put us in because you think I'm on a "high-horse", like you think I was to good to have to register. If I had've known, I would of done it straight away. I really think you wanted to make an example of us and our "immature attitudes." If the CS comp was run by someone who actually had more than "no real enthusiasm ... ", and by someone who actually had a particular interest for the game, they'd realise that if one player from the team was there, then the team was there as well.

The reason I got so annoyed, wasn't really to do with you personally, but it invoked the way I felt when I was knocked back down at CPLP. You promote QGL as fun and as having some "amatuer competitions," then you can't make exceptions in regards to us filling out a form, despite the fact I registered the clan on the electronic database.

Not only that, I was out at 12noon, other clans didn't turn up until after you'd made the announcement that they were actually present (ie, SD) - you did however, allow them to go through and play the match. That's pretty contradictory to you saying that all clans, including mP are equal at QGL (which is of course, how they should be) isn't it?

Anyway, I don't really want this to be a public matter, and besides that, there's nothing much that can be done about it now anyway. If you'd prefer, grab my ICQ contact off Trog if you'd like to share your reasons and explain your actions (I know you'll probably feel like you don't have to, but perhaps if we both get off the same "high-horse", something rational could be worked out to ensure other clans don't make the same mistake that we did - yes, we did make a mistake, but it could also easily of been avoided...)

Cyph thats amusing given DeePer went up and complained saying "you knew mP was here I went and talked to Trog when I got here and had a smoke with Sprinkles etc" and the admins reply was "oh we assumed it was just u that was here not mP"

I knew deeper was there prior to the half-dozen or so CS announcements. I also noticed that mP had not registered when entering the teams into the database. Since Deeper had been there, and mP had not registered, it seemed logical that mP did not intend to play.

Re; forms: in case you didn't notice, there the wind was gusting in the front door, so much so I decided to not put them out until the door admins had time to hold onto them.

Both this LAN and the last had announcements asking for players to fill out a team sheet. Seems pretty consistant to me.

We rejected the use of online registration long ago, for the same reason we dont simply allocate one seat to every play who registers - teams dont always turn up, can't field a team, change their intended line up, make a team up on the day, or any number of other reasons.

Re: The password issue, while somewhat irrelevant, is a fair enough. Previously we hadn't worried about it, because it had not been an issue - players were cluey enough to keep off servers they shouldn't be on. I'll make sure client passwords are put in place for the next round.

Re: player swapping, its an issue that needs addressing by the AGL as a whole.

Bah ffs give it up. they made the announcements like they ALWAYS DO. And the admin desk was at the doors.

If you want something to be implemented do it yourself ffs. The admins are their to organise the s*** and run it. If you have a problem WALK UP TO THEM and see them as simple as that. I am sure they would not of minded to wait 5-10minutes for you to talk s*** through.

How about having a news annoucement ( the email ones) about how to register your team for the LAN and its comps.

Obviously there are issues with the current system, so lets try and work these system issues out.

It dosnt matter who rawted anyone how. What matters is that there was a communication breakdown which caused unhappiness with your customers, and in good business interests this breakdown should be delt with in an effective and constructive way. YES I know that mP members have behaved poorly but we where all pissed that we miss out on a chance to play a fun war, and we needed to vent frustration out. I appologise for anyway venting that drifted your way.

So what is going to be done for the next LAN, how are we going to register?
We need a better system then the PA system as people have stated that they cant hear it for many reasons (headphones being a maj0r course, and unaudiable announcements)

Yes, Nathan might have made 7 announcements about it, but I wasn't there between that half hour our when they were made. However, if an announcement had been made prior to the lan itself - ie on the QGL website etc, that we had to register a team on a piece of paper between x hours, then naturally I would of been there to do it, just as I was out a 12 noon ready to receive announcement of the server we'd be playing on.

Basically, in the morning before the comps were due to start at QGL, I was away for 30-40 minutes getting breakfast, and for the rest I was there, not even playing games, just sitting there listening in case there was an important announcement. In the morning, the only announcements I heard from Nats were in relation to cars being parked outside, and their license plates being read out.

"Re: The password issue, while somewhat irrelevant, is a fair ..... make sure client passwords are put in place for the next round. "

Well Nats, personally, I don't have a problem with this, because, after all, it is the players responsibility to admin a match, and that player can put a password on the server using rcon. I don't think that's your fault at all, but rather ours for not bothering to put a password on the servers ourselves (we did, after all, know were FD were sitting).

"Re: player swapping, its an issue that needs addressing by the AGL as a whole."

Yes :)

or a more cost effective thing. Get a whiteboard and some whiteboard markers for the admin. Have it to one side of the room. and you can have all the announcements there. something along those lines

We usually have the playerlimits on the server to 13 so an admin may join and spectate or something (not that we ever have time to heh), but passworded servers isn't a bad idea.

How does the pause thing work in Half-Life? I know in OSP (Q3) teams can call a timeout or the referee can pause the match if a player has crashed or whatever. It's a damn good idea, and is needed in all games IMO.

Not only that but you could have special events marked on the whiteboard too, such as Crison Skies server or Codename Eagle :D

I remember there was a discution like this awhile back. Things like Crash zones (yeah, there isnt much room for this ) and that 2nd hand hardware thingo

Well, after spending long enough to read all the replies in this thread, I figure I've earned the right to add my own piece :)

If the PA is so hard to understand, how come (like nats said), the other 23 CS clans had no problem getting things in order? While I will admit, at times it can be hard to hear exactly what was said, usually you can hear a few key words (Counter Strike, Quake, Starcraft, Day of Defeat, etc), and if you didn't hear the whole thing, and you think it involves you, you will go up to an admin and ask. When I announced the Day of Defeat comp, all of the teams that played had no problems hearing me and coming up to sign up. Even a few times I had people coming up and asking me what the announcement I made regarding the DOD comp was, because they had their headphones on.

There have been other suggestions here that are supposedly "better" than using the PA. One of these is to turn the power off when an announcement was made. Another was to send messages to people that minimise all their programs and games. Honestly, can you call either of these viable alternatives? You would rather have your computers rudely and suddenly shutdown, or you would rather have whatever game you are playing minimised or shutdown? You find this preferable over an unobtrusive PA announcement? What about the other 250 people who aren't in the CS comp when its announced, what happens to them?

If 95% of the people involved in the various comps are able to follow directions announced over the PA, or ask an admin for help when needed, then why should the entire system of running things be turned upside down for the other 5%? Aren't they just as able to seek help when needed, or check up on the rules for the comps before actually playing in them? Maybe we should hire an extra 50 admins whose job it is to go and tap everyone on the shoulder and whisper announcements into their ears so they dont miss what is said.

What I mean deeper, is that if I was in a situation where I was in a comp and didn't hear an announcement because it was muffled or whatever, I'd probably make some obligatory derogatory comment to whoever was sitting next to me about it, then get out of my seat and go sort it out because what I'd want ultimately, is to be in the comp and not miss out.

That's the desired objective here after all isn't it - to be in the comp (and win it).

Nats told me that nothing was different from any lan before with regard entering the comps - I believe him because he's not prone to exaggeration or lying. You and your clan members, I have no idea. Naturally, I'd go with what Nats says in that situation.

If I'm wrong, then I'll apologise for every claim and comment I've made about you guys - but so far all I've seen is you guys appearing to think that everyone else in the comp should've had to wait for you, because of what essentially boils down to being your refusal or inability to get yourselves ready for it.

Like I said at the event itself, it's a real bummer you wouldn't come up and go through it with me instead of doing it via the forum (which was just ridiculous when we're sitting in the same room) - yet here we are on the forums again, arguing over the same thing. I knew this would happen, and I knew that it _wouldn't_ happen if you'd come to the admin area as requested, because I would've gone through it all step by step with you, until you no longer had a reason to have a beef with us. One of the following three things would've resulted:

1) We'd have gone thru it bit by bit and you would've verbally acknowledged your mistake and promised not to make false accusations after the fact.

2) We'd have gone thru it and acknowledged our mistake and fixed it.

3) We'd have gone thru it and acknowledged our mistake and not been able to fix it, but apologised for the stuffup and tried to appease you somehow.

Any one of the above would be better than this.




And what I meant by taking steps to improve yourself, is to work on not casting blame for your actions elsewhere instead of accepting responsibility for your own goofups. Incidentally, I'm really happy to do this if it's warranted.

Deeper; I don't see any reason to discuss it privately, as I feel the organisation and running of QGL competitions is a public matter.

I had no intent to make an "example" of mP; I would have quite happily entered your team if you'd asked even 2 minutes before I called everyone out for the draw (teams kept giving me team sheets well after the announce 'end of registration' but I added them anyway).

As you probably know, matches are assigned based on rankings - to add mP to the draw at that point would require me to call everyone back, tell them "no sorry, the matches I just gave you are wrong, mP forgot to register" go fetch the new matches from the computer, and then gather everyone outside again. As a (in my opinion) quite proficient competition organiser, it seemed unwise to hold up the commencement play due to a mistake made by a single competitor. That is why I felt making an "exception" for not filling out the regisratation form to be the wrong thing to do - doing so would hold back competition play. Being intimately aware of the issues that can (and did) hold back gameplay during the day, allowing further delays due to a competitor's mistake would be unwise decision and unfair on the other competitrs.

I dont see the logic by which you figure that your attendence should indicate to me that mP wishes to play in the CS competition. While its true that if I were currently more involved in the CS community I would be aware of whether mP was or was not still "active" as a clan, thats somewhat besides the issue. What if I had not seen you earlier on Saturday? Would that make your failure to register a team more bearable?

Allowing the other teams to play (you mention SD) who did not appear outside had no impact on our timeline as they saw me when I came back inside, and hence did not affect the other competitors. Clans are "equal" in that I dont make exceptions based on who they are, I make "exceptions" based on what the result would be.

As a further example, I was aware that the GGF rep team had not signed up for the CS comp, even though I had previously assumed they would be playing. They too were left out of the first match, handed in their rego sheet, and entered in the second round (note however, they didn't get a bye, because term knew they wouldn't whinge about the decision).

As it is, I was n't particularly happy about giving mP a bye; however I agreed with Term on the basis that (a) mP are regular QGL attendees, and (b) are obviously going to be final contenders, and shouldn't be too heavily penalised for what was obviously an honest mistake. Given the crap that's been spewed by certain mP members online though, I'm quite convinced that the small 'deviance' from the rules was unwarranted and the forfeit should have been kept.

hheeh sif mP didnt get 0wned by the forum users :D

the pause feature is simply a console command to activate it
something like
sv_pause 1 or mp_pauseable 1

and then you just use the Pause button on your keyboard if u need the game to be paused.

After that we just have to expect the players to use it responbsably.
Its mainly used because they want a fair and even game at all times, if a player drops out mid round they play out that round then pause so the player makes it for the next one.

Cyph: ever heard of a paper weight?

As far as Terrorist goes, DeFCoN got to play about 3 rounds, for the rest his PC had crashed out, forcing us to run 5-man strats. Hopefully next time you'll claim such a close match on more even terms, rather than say "gg" when we're a player down for over 10 rounds.

Bulls***.

When we were t's elements computer crashed. We quickly told Candyman to sub in, so he connected. Upon connecting you guys told us we weren't allowed to sub. Fair enough, so candy quit and we waited for element to get back in the game. This ruined a good 4 rounds for us, but rules are rules. Candyman didn't actually play in the game. He joined the T side while he was dead, and then left before the start of next round.

When you guys (mP) were T, Defcon crashed. You quickly subbed swat0r in. We said nu-uh, because you guys informed us that subbing wasn't allowed. However fades response to that was:

Integ: Can't use swat0r :)
Fade: Hey integ.
Fade: Come and try to shove it up my ass.

And then you left him in there for the rest of the match. Technically, we had broken the rules, but we did remove our sub as you asked. It wasted more time than simply waiting for Element to get back in the game. However knowing we had broken the rules, you guys blatantly subbed and didn't remove him as we asked, because you knew that we couldn't say anything.

I didn't think you guys would stoop that low.

Now, regarding the the bye thing, I find it funny that you guys have managed to spark a debate about the PA.

Out of the 24 clans that participated in the comp, mP were the only ones not to register. Besides that, you guys were about 10 metres away from the admin table. The PA system is fine. Fair enough it isn't very clear, but whenever I don't understand something over the PA I go to the admin desk and ask what it was about.

You were out getting maccas DeePer? What about the rest of mP? I saw a few of them at your table when I was registering. Not one of them bothered to check that the clan was registered? You should blame them, not the PA system or the admins.

Your complaint does have some justification, but method sure knows how to make a clan look bad. Those "fagg0t QGL admins" spent they're whole weekend plus several days before the LAN setting up and running it, and he tries to dog them for a f*** up in his own clan. Even after they went soft on mP.

It's unwise to assume competitors will enter a competition they're known to enter all the time - I nearly did it during the Q3 Duel comp when I didn't see Badkarma's name on the list, but thought he simply forgot. It was lucky I went and asked him :)

Actually this is not on anyones side. BUT the PA IS hard to hear when your not concentrating. I know a [SOM] had to go to admin desk to ask what was just said. Not sayin you COULDN'T hear it. But yes. No complaints on the system though, as soon as we heard the "can ihave your attention" our ears stuck up.

How about an Online Rego system, that is usable at the LAN, as in you sign up for stuff on the webpage when you get to the LAN and it does the rest ( you could intergrate soo much stuff with this , like stat tracking and other goodness).

Or instead of the Whiteboard how about having a webpage with hourly news postings ?

wish mP would give it a rest >:(

Its not a childcare centre. The admins shouldn't have to come to you, you go to the admins.

Later when there were about 4 rounds left in the war [SAS]Sprinkles (admin) said it was fine to bring in someone when a player crashes.

That'd be f***in right.

the pause feature is simply a console command to activate it
something like
sv_pause 1 or mp_pauseable 1

pauasable 1

The catch is that any player in the game is capable of pausing. In newbie games it'd cause some s***. In the euro leagues pausing is restricted to the admin.

Nitro: BS u were a player down for 4 rounds!

you had candy man straight in and he stayed until Ele rejoined, you were never a man down for a round except for the round Ele crashed and I'm not sure if he crashed after he died or before hand.

I watched the demo I took of the war, Deffy crashed in round 7 us down 4-2 at the time, and he crashed consistently the wrest of it, we didn't sub swat until it had been verified with an admin that we were able to after u had done it.

Don't BS about playing disadvantaged, Ele made it back for the next round at which point knowing Ele was back Candyman quit, all the time u had a player there albight not playing he still could ghost for you all.

oh and how about adding the wrest of that conversation, ie.
Rubicon and Integs "get the f*** outs" which sparked my response, rather than making Integ look all polite and me rude?

One thing I love about taking demo's, is the proof u get that other people are full of s*** :P

-= Saints post
That's the stuff Saint you legend! :D
------

-= Nitro's post
mP played a prac war in the morning, however, due to the fact that CS is gay, I couldn't be bothered until the first round was due to start.

And yes, I normally would come up after not hearing the PA to ask or to verify what was said, but I had no knowledge that writing players on a sheet (which is normally at the door, though I can pefectly understand why it was moved) had to be done, so I assumed that by comp timetable, nothing had to be done before lunch time.

And Nitro, I don't think you can blame Fade for his response, after all, we only "cheated" after you do. Not only that, we got permission off an admin to do it - you just did it on your own accord. Another thing too, you guys talk while dead, which, in my opinion, is cheating. Numerous players have told me that you guys were ghosting positions after you died - that is what a coach is for.

Personally, I don't care about the result of CS, 'cause I don't really care all that much about winning or losing in the gay game. However, it was another game to compete in (just like me playing DoD) for some fun.
----

-=Fade's Post
I don't agree with Fade's post - I think pausing matches is bad - however pausing at the start of the round could be appropriate.
----

-=Nathan's post
"I had no intent to make an "example" of mP; I would have quite happily entered your team if you'd asked even 2 minutes before I called everyone out for the draw"

Well Nats, you called out the "role" if you remember, and I said "mP is here" - then about 2 or so minutes later you called out the draw. So I don't know if that really fits? I admit I stuffed up by not filling out the form, and I'm glad you acknowledged that it was an honest mistake on my part - because that's all it was.

Anyway, QGL rocked hard like it always does, and the point of the matter is, I'll know that we'll have to fill out the forms again next time - and I hope that other clans will be reminded off it as well.

Okay people, theres a lot we can take from todays forum flame.
First of all, you should try and make sure you are confidently clear of all that is going on, even if it means asking a scary admin like term.
Secondly, the Admins were nice enough to give mP a bye, because of the fact it was an honest mistake, however from now on, i dont think this will be happening, due to the fact that everyone should be clear on this
Thirdly, take any beefs you have up with the admins, but dont be dickish about it, calmly explain the situation and ask them what they can do about it. they want this to be as awesome a lan as you do, they arent out to wreck your fun (well, at least i hope not... /me looks at jims tank)
And Fourthly, please, no more net messages at crucial times.... slayadude lost a cs match for us :/

So remember people, take care of yourself, and each other

- Jerry 'Tung' Springer

FFS get off ur ego u s***heads.
23 other clans registered with out any problem, one missed out and it was you.

i dont see how QGL admins could have done anything wrong considering that it's YOUR responsibility to register, the admins have enough to do with out having to chase down incompatent people such as yourself.

how about you ACCEPT that it was YOUR fault, and stop trying to lay the blame on others. Your taking everything at these lans as if it's your RIGHT to get what u want, when really your so damn lucky to be able to be in such an awesome lan as QGL.

dont act as if everyone is against you, take some responsibility for your actions (or lack of action in your case) and grow up.

I admit I stuffed up by not filling out the form, and I'm glad you acknowledged that it was an honest mistake on my part

Grudge war next QGL, mP vs FD, woot woot, smells like WWF, i can feel the tension in the air already.

can we use chairs and other various forms of advanced weaponry?

Thankyou for that Kaygen, it saved me having to point it out to SquarkyD myself.

The reason I'm discussing this is so that these issues don't happen again to any other clan. Last time I came in, the sheets were on the desk, and someone told me I had to fill them out. I understand that the LANs are getting a lot bigger and a lot less personal these days, so things like this are becoming less likely, hence the reason I think a better system of information changeover would be worth considering, and save the PA for more important things like occur without pre-organisation from the admins: ie, someone parking their car in an inappropriate place, or calling players up to the admin table etc...

All we are missing are the very large breasted women.

ok now this one I have nfi if its possible,

but make our icq number a requirement for signon for a QGL when we register for the event our icq number gets added to a computer or persons computer thats dedicated for the qgl event, so that everyones icq number is on the computer and we can get sent announcements that way?

This way u could even set up folders once there with the clan leaders nicks for each clan, then once you want everyone outside click on that folder and it will send each leader an icq msg saying "cs meeting outside in 15mins" or something along those lines.

or is that to difficult/impossible to setup?

bah your all gay :P

Well i knew Nitro was gay, his name is Nitro Am Gay.

lots of ppl dont use icq tho, and deeps i only skimmed over and missed that sorry, i'm going thru s*** at the moment and cant think str8.

'tis cool - nice sig btw :)

Antamidaphobia - Somewhere, Somehow a duck is watching you...

go the mighty far side comics !

Go to sleep

ok

NOW

bwahaha

I watched the mP game - swat0r was only in there for 1 or 2 rounds.

How the hell that made much of a difference is beyond me...

how about i post the FD CT half of the mP game for everyone to see fade.

i beleive we were polite until the point where we were told to shove it up ur ass

and then i say "oi get out!" and i receive the response from swat0r "f*** off" oh its on the demo fade, maybe your full of s***...

as for talking after dead? mm..saying f*** and stuff is cheating?

defcon wasnt out for 7 rounds either..thats total crock of s***..

stop trying to pass the draw off as a 5 on 6 s***, because it wasnt, fkn nats is right, u are whingers..
get off your f***ing high horse and accept already...just be glad weve only played prodigy as a team like 8 times and our strats are quite newbie to say the least.

also deeper quote from before the match

"personally i think its our best map"

and yes, you said it BEFORE the match.

but if this was a Quake3 topic
you poofs wouldn't mind now would you


just goes both ways

stfu

Flame On

rubi dont make me bitch slap you next QGL whore
defcon did crash 3 times and that was well over 4-5 rounds without him man, and candyman didn't leave the
server before the start of the round he was in there until the round started (buy zone) than left

*cough* woulda bought someone nice little ak or 2

and why not have pause in wars????

geez get with the times no wonder CS is so much bigger overseas cause maybe they dont have ghey admins there like they do here....

Rubi I didn't say we were short for 7 rounds, I said DeFCoN crashed in the 7th round u retard, get some reading skills eh?
and that was only the first time he crashed, he went down twice after that I believe.

Yes Rubicon, cs_deaglewarehouse is also our best map.
And so is cs_siege.
And so is...

geez get with the times no wonder CS is so much bigger overseas cause maybe they dont have ghey admins there like they do here....

Why dont you move overseas then? We wont mind, honest.

"oh and how about adding the wrest of that conversation, ie.
Rubicon and Integs "get the f*** outs" which sparked my response, rather than making Integ look all polite and me rude? "

The "get out" by Rubicon was said a good minute after the first "you can't sub" dispute. So unless you went into the future and got pissed off by Rubi, then went BACK and told him to try and shove it up your ass, then you're bulls***ting.

One thing I love about taking demo's, is the proof u get that other people are full of s*** :P

Said it yourself.

Hot DAYUM!

haha method, you tool

candyman didn't leave the
server before the start of the round he was in there until the round started (buy zone) than left
*cough* woulda bought someone nice little ak or 2

Method.. god knows where the f*** you got this idea from? .. He didnt buy anything.. enough said

Wish these lamers would stop flaming each other :( gives em both a bad name..

Anways I agree with Trog.

If somebody crashes mid game then thats their problem, the game should continue onwards. NO subing a new guy in, you just have wait for the crasher to reboot/restart CS and join back in.

In racing: If your car stuffs up (same as a computer crash) The race dosnt stop for the car to be repaired, it only stops to remove the car if it has to be. Only reason why the race stops/slows down is for safty.

A computer crashing dosn't pose a safty risk. Game should go on.

It should be up to the team to make sure their computers dont crash/be gay. f***s me why everyones computer crashes anyway! get some computer skillz.

toll...if they would stop layin s*** on us, then we wouldnt lay s*** on them, i only said gg and deeper decides to flame me and starts making excuses...get some sportsmanship eh?

for me i dont really care, i would like to see the pause feature, and i would like to be able to say gg to mP and then receive on back..

umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm..... yers.....lets shuttup now and talk about it at the next lan. You can only say certain things so many times before it becomes repetative

"toll...if they would stop layin s*** on us, then we wouldnt lay s*** on them, i only said gg and deeper decides to flame me and starts making excuses...get some sportsmanship eh?"

WTF Rubicon?

I think I'm a very good sportsman actually, if any of my guys say anything whilst dead for starters, I quickly tell them to shut their mouths - at least we have that to hold us above you. Numerous players unrelated to mP said you guys were ghosting positions almost everytime you died. The day that FD actually BEATS us, without being CHEAP - and actually gets a legitimate win, I'll be impressed and say "gg"

Besides, the only real reason I hate your clan so much is because of Booms, Integ and Jerds - I think you and all the FJ guys are cool, so I don't know where you got that from...

Arrh what s*** is going on here?.
I hardly post on here, only if need to be.
First of all, why are u bringing FD into this subject?. Its not our fualt if u left and got breaky when they called our CS clans to come outside Deeps, u should of been their mate. Im not having a go at u, because im not, im just saying its the rules. Also we drew with mP fairly even when we were 1 short and u were 1 short at one stage, and we are proud of that. I think u better stop what ur saying to admins or whoever in this subject and about us before this gets outta hand. It would be also a good gesture to say "sorry" to the admins on mP's behalf for being a little over the top.

Thats my 2 cents.

Thanks guys.
FD|.Integrator.

I like the suggestion about Monkey's running around the lan, making errands, instead of having a dreaded PA :P

http://members.optushome.com.au/kalgo/MI/md1.gif

Integ, Nitro was the one that brought FD into the subject buddy.

And kalgo, I suggest 12 monkeys :)

i suggest OGO intellectuals subjugating the barbarian hordes

http://members.optushome.com.au/kalgo/MI/md1.gifhttp://members.optushome.com.au/kalgo/MI/md1.gifhttp://members.optushome.com.au/kalgo/MI/md1.gifhttp://members.optushome.com.au/kalgo/MI/md1.gifhttp://members.optushome.com.au/kalgo/MI/md1.gifhttp://members.optushome.com.au/kalgo/MI/md1.gif

good enough? lol. i vote necra in as one of the monkeys =P j/k

OMG!
Monkey island 1 flashbacks!