So it looks like the email that had all the evidence against Kevin Rudd and Swanny was faked!

FAKERS

This morning Australian Federal Police officers executed a search warrant at the house of Treasury official Godwin Grech, whose evidence to a Senate inquiry on Friday ignited the OzCar scandal.

The email has now been found at his house.

The email was purported to show the Prime Minister's office making representations to the Treasury on behalf of car dealer John Grant, Kevin Rudd's friend and political donor.

It will take more than that you dirty lying fools!

lol why the hell would you keep the fake email? what an idiot.

gg infi

What about the email that wasn't faked? The one that was sent to Swann from that Godwin guy keeping him informed about what he had done for Rudd's mate that contradicts what Swann told the parliament?

Oh that's right, lets not focus on that one.

Swann was kept up to date on all happenings of potential OzCar beneficiaries.

I'm just happy that this is a so-called 'scandal' in Australian politics. Hopefully it's a measure that our country is running quite cleanly and bribe/kickback free.

More interesting than this s*** story in today's paper was the story about the RBA note-printing companies and their potential involvement with shady O/S characters in gaining contracts to print banknotes in other countries.

so wait on
lets get back to the real issue
krudd had a meeting with ford finance, whilst at that meeting he told them to take a bris car dealer on *and make profit off him of course*. this is bad because krudd was helping someone who had helped him by lending him a s***ty old ute to put posters on back when he was just a local federal candidate?

so real/fake emails aside, is this the guts of it?

Oh yeah they're squeaky clean, oh yeah!!

I suppose that's the guts, but more important is the potentially lying in parliament and cover ups though. Same from the flip side too, if the Libs fabricated the email then that's equally as bad.

I suppose that's the guts, but more important is the potentially lying in parliament and cover ups though. Same from the flip side too, if the Libs fabricated the email then that's equally as bad.

Yeah but the Libs can do no wrong, even if they committed fraud it's all good!

why is this issue so important?
has it been blown out of proportion by the media?

that opposition, they are sooooo dodgy!

The key issue is that Wayne Swan has stated he took no interest out of the ordinary in John Grant's application for assistance with the OzCar scheme when the truth is that he was kept well briefed about it.

He misled parliament by saying John Grant got no treatment out of the ordinary. If Mr Swan had no extraordinary interest Mr Grant's why was Mr Swan getting briefings of the outcomes (no less emails being sent to his fax lol) sent to his home?

Swan just doesn't pass the smell test.

He shot himself if the foot playing so heavily on the email he couldn't of known existed (because apparently it didn't.) If he didn't hammer on about this email they probably wouldn't of had a leg to stand on.

Either way, whats happening in Iran is much more important to this s***, but I havent even seen 1 news story on Iran, which is pathetic.

pollies making deals under the table!>??! whoda thunk'd it!? :D i thought that's what they all did 24/7.

Either way, whats happening in Iran is much more important to this s***, but I havent even seen 1 news story on Iran, which is pathetic.

The only news any one wants to hear about the f***ing middle east is that someone with a set finally dropped a nuke on that s*** hole. Suicide bombers, slaughters and what not gets pretty repetitive after a while... Drop the bomb so that we can all just move on.

The key issue is that Wayne Swan has stated ...

Tthe fraudulent email that was played up so much is a nonissue. I place my entire faith in the opposition and hope they get into power next election so they can treat us to a new age of truth.

As a result of this, politicians in Australia are now required by law to send digitally signed email according to strict new laws concerning transparency and accountability in politics....


... and then trog wakes up

what i find the most annoying about this whole thing is that the f***** media have called it the 'utegate scandal'

f***ing lame

Yeah I still dont see the problem, arent politicians meant to help out local business?

Its not like they gave a goverment contract to a friend over someone else.

And the current situation in iran is a tinamanen square in the making.

As a result of this, politicians in Australia are now required by law to send digitally signed email according to strict new laws concerning transparency and accountability in politics....

you had me going for a second there trog, cause that would make so much sense, so obvioulsy it wont be done.

And the current situation in iran is a tinamanen square in the making.

Small political storys are BIG MUST HAVE SUPER HAPPY EXTRA TIME news when a person supports x party and the article is critical of y party.

I like it how Turnbul says he quoted from the email on Friday from a paper he read on Saturday. Smooth.

i am so defriending malcolm on twitter after this

Not to go all FaceMan on this, but from my own personal experience, I have journalist mates who tell me s*** before it gets published all the time. It's entirely reasonable that even if the papers WERE published on the Saturday (which I don't know enough about to comment on), Turnbull could easily have found out on the Friday from a journo working on the story.

Just a theory, not a CONSPIRACY theory :P

i cringe whenever they call it the 'utegate scandal'

We get wednesday's paper delivered on tuesday all the time.

If only this country had some sort of mandatory internet filter implemented at the ISP level that would get rid of all these fake emails before they became parliamentary scandals.

Malcolm Turnbull = Gary Hobson?

The only problem with using journos as your source is that journos are soulless scum.

yer, whats with journos?
always reporting stuff

hahahahaha "politicians misleading the public" hahahaha yeh Howard never did that HAHAHAH hahahfhahahsadddf

children overboard! tampa! WMD! whaaaahhhh!

children overboard! tampa! WMD! whaaaahhhh!

yeah very good point. These things make car malarky look pretty tame in comparison.

lets hope no one finds out about infigate.

The sad thing is that Malcolm looks more stupid than Rudd and Swanny, pretty embarassing looking more stupid than those two tards.

yeah he really cocked this one up

tony abbott for opp leader -> PM in 2011.

no way, he is way to conservative. it was bad enough when he was health minister.

haha tony abbott

they sure do need to find someone else, malcolm is one pretty unlikable character

If I were given a choice between Rudd and Abbott... I would pick rud.
If I were given the choice between a dog and Rudd, I would probably pick the Dog.

I think what Labor has done/is planning is beyond stupid but I would rather that then an Ultra-Conservative at the helm.

infi, what's your opinion on Tony Abbott?

Malcolm has been very silly and naive believing the journos and mischievous govies. He ought to have known better the first rule of cross-examination: never ask a question you don't first know the answer to yourself.

Pretty sloppy work there by the Coalition...

I would say typical work there...

quite so.
and your opinion on tony abbott?

Yeah Turnballs pretty average, he's got an im better than you type attitude to him. I'd be more inclined to vote liberal if they didnt have turnball as the head.

I like Barnaby Joyce, cept he is a senator, he seems to speak his mind.

Both sides look like idots in this whole thing, Rudd with his contant repeating of the "fake, false and fraudalant" line, I swear he said it 7-8 times in an interview on abc radio yesterday morning. And malcolm turnball with his "the prime minister and the treasurer need to come into parlimant, tell the truth and resign" yeah thats not gonna happen and you look stupid for saying it.

There will never be a decent politician that speaks his mind, he would be torn down by the media and opposition, I'd vote for him though.

As for Tony, he's just the nicest guy, the only problem is he is too honest and too moral for parliament and I have no idea why he is in there.

He tell it like it is and has a fantastic way with words but his value compass is a little too fundamental for my liking when Australia's value have taken a shift to the left significantly since WW2.

Alas, Tony could never be PM in modern Australia because he is far too right wing.

turnbull is a real c*** irl apparently (heard it from a few different people who know him personally). probably a bit of the merchant banker attitude left over.

abbott is waaaaaay too religious and right-wing for most people, including me.

joyce is mostly pretty honest which i like, but he's an idiot.

yeah i agree infi, he's like a blast from the past isn't he. i so wish he was PM though, it's a damn shame he won't be.
but JWH was pretty darn right wing too...

last edited by MrHardware at 13:10:00 23/Jun/09

I wouldn't say Joyce is an idiot but he is a bit radical, in the true National party sense of the word. The Nationals worship him but then again they think they are still the Agrarian Socialist party.

He enjoyed the "renegade" status during the last term of the Coalition government but I think he is finding it a great deal tougher being the leader of the Nats in the Senate and having to toe the party line.

What Barnaby and the Nats fail to realise is that they are a dying force and have no future.

when Australia's value have taken a shift to the left significantly since WW2.

Huh what. Which Australia do you speak of ? Surely, since the 80s, Australia has jutted very far to the right. The whole political spectrum has shifted.

I suppose if you look at it from WW2; yeah, heaps leftie, but, do you really want to live in the 50s?

What Barnaby and the Nats fail to realise is that they are a dying force and have no future.

Dont the liberals kinda need the nationals a fair bit? Farmy type people who vote national are always gonna vote national, I dont think it will change that much with newer generations, they do what there parents taught them to do.

Infi, you think theres gonna be a Federal LNP?

but JWH was pretty darn right wing too...

John Howard was genuine which is why he and Abbott got on, because they had a very similar moral compass, but one thing JWH always said was "Politics is the art of the possible."

So where other less canny politicians (like Costello) liked to think "We are in government, we won't back down" Howard knew that to win sometimes you need to back down and the episode from the Howard years about the GST is a magnificent example of Howard the master.

Rudd is amateur time compared to Howard. Rudd uses very simple repetitive rhetoric as does the whole Labor Cabinet. Listening to Tanner during the cash splash, Swan during the budget, Ellis on QANDA or Elliot on 4 corners for the aged care special. They are all rank amateurs with the English language compared to Howard. That is why he was in government for 12 years and no Coalition member dared question him. (Except for Petro Georgio and Bronwyn Bishop and a few others and look what happened to them.)

Rudd's simplistic spin will get tired with the public very quickly because unless new spin and ideas is coming out they will grow bored. Rudd will not be PM in 11 years time that is for sure. And that is why JWH is the master.

last edited by infi at 13:17:53 23/Jun/09

yeah, you're spot on about joyce/nationals, infi. that was pretty much exactly what i meant by 'idiot', just too lazy to type/think it out :D

yeah you're quite right infi, and Howard really was the master, i agree. However with a few more years on him (he's only 51, JWH was 58 when he became PM) i reckon Abbott could get close to the same strong leadership that howard had. Costello is a joke, as he has zero charisma.
I'd love to see Krudd lose to Abbott.

the thing that i think the voters will grow very tired of with Rudd and Co soon is their smug superiority complex, even if it is on something as foggy as the ETS, they are always 100% right.

Australians just hate that. It's a good thing for Australian politics that Rudd did come out of this clean though because it would be sad to have a PM involved in favours for mates, and I am glad Rudd is not involved in any of that business.

John Howard was genuine

Oh yeah im sure john Howards was genuine, I just didnt like what he was genuine about, I'll have my employee rights back thank you.

Paul Keating all the way !

Im not sure the people will get tired with Rudds bulls***ing. As long as turnball is head of liberal I wont be voting for them. Some one with the ammount of money that turnball has will only ever think of the top end, there's no possible way for him to have an understanding of what its like for the common man. Not that rudd would be that much different with his wifes money. Actually not that any politician would be any different, but turnballs just on another level. Maybe he should be opposition treasurer, that would make more sense.

the thing that i think the voters will grow very tired of with Rudd and Co soon is their smug superiority complex

Man you are so one-sidedly blind I feel sorry for you.
Yeah this is why Johnny boy didn't even win his own seat, his smug attitude made people want to kick him square in the balls and they did. But of course according to you he was the master and would never make the same mistakes as an amateur like Rudd.

Maybe that amateur is taking a leaf out of his book and acting like an asshat on purpose because Howard did so well with it?

Rudd has been in power for 18 months. Howard was in power for 12 years. The true test is the test of time.

The one thing that voters and consumers crave is change, so Howard knew he had to lose eventually. What's so startling about that.

What is startling is that after only 18 months Rudd's rhetoric is virtually spent!

Infi doesn't like Labor.

Some one with the ammount of money that turnball has will only ever think of the top end, there's no possible way for him to have an understanding of what its like for the common man.

Rudd has more money than Turnball. The fact that his wife earned it is trivial when it comes to his personal wealth.

Funny thing about your argument is that Turnball is self made, worked himself up where as Rudd has been a political player straight out of uni, how can you claim he has more in touch with the common man than someone who has worked a "real" job?

What is startling is that after only 18 months Rudd's rhetoric is virtually spent!

According to you, not everyone actually pays attention to rhetoric though. But then I guess for you rhetoric is all that really matters since you spout it so much.

Howard lasted for a long time because the opposition sucked, when Rudd stepped up people were like, hey there's that guy from the morning show who makes that other guy look like a douche all the time. It wasn't oh hey there's that fat guy who looks on the verge of a heart attack or there's that tool who likes to break cabbies arms or the guy that's actually more goblin like then Howard. It was someone that people could recognise and get behind. It had far less to do with Howards performance then you think.

It's going to be the same case next election. Rudd can act like an asshat all he wants as long as the opposition isn't producing someone the people are willing to get behind. It's the devil you know situation. Most people don't really see a huge difference between one party or the other and come election day if they don't know the other guy or think he's an asshat then they will stick with the asshat they already know.

This is coming from a guy who voted Libs last election by the way. Reading your posts remind me of people who like to claim that dinosaur bones were put on earth as a test by god. We might believe in the same God but goddamn you're f***ing nuts.

Infi, granted Howard is a master politician but the best leader ever I highly doubt it. Howard was a master of manipulating people and was kinda lucky Labor party was so f***ed up for a few years. How many things did he blatantly lie about? So many it defies imagination.

Well considering he took the GST to an election, was never proven to have lied about children overboard, and had Kevin Rudd on his side about the WMD, I would suggest he didn't lie about anything. It's just the usual socialist alliance and ACTU activists bleating out their propaganda that got those issues into the mainstream.

What did he actually lie about in your opinion?

Why hasn't anyone taken Rudd to task yet about action every item from the 2020 summit within a year of its completion?

Because everyone knows Rudd is full of s***! At least the Coalition did stuff... I just yearn for the days of good government I guess and am jaded by watching these morons stumble around.

good government

^oxymoron.

I just yearn for the days of good government

No, you yearn for Liberal to be in power, and then say its good goverment whatever they do, becuase they are the liberal party, therefore anything they do is good.

I dont think rudd has done that bad of a job, I think he's done ok in a pretty hard time. Howard probably did ok, but in alot easier time. Selling telstra was pretty dumb, and workchoices was pretty lame.

I didnt realy like howard though, he seemed like a weasel, peter costello was probably the man behind everything.

Infi you seriously believe he knew nothing about what actually happened on that boat? I have no doubt he knew about whatsoever, how could he not?

He jumped on the WMD bandwagon and tried to make us all scared of everything. He knew it was a lie and if not he was a dumb leader for following such BS advice.

"No, there's no way that a GSTwill ever be part of our policy." 2 May, 1995

John Howard lied so much about everything and if you can't see that please stop voting in the future. Every politician lies, pull your head out of your arse.

Howard was in power for 12 years. The true test is the test of time.

Howard was good at politics. He knew how to split the opposition on key topics. The true test will be in about 20 years if they are saying what great things he did or whether they just go well he was in power a long time.

Curtain was there what 6 years before he died, but will always be viewed as one of the great prime ministers. (infi will probably disagree because he was Labor but then infi is the liberal party ad you have when you don't have an election on). Even Fischer must have been decent only minority Prime Minister we've had. He would have had to work hard to get things through a hostile lower house.

In fact the only 1 word description you could ever give Howard is divisive.

Funny thing about your argument is that Turnball is self made

He was part of the Macquarie millionaire factory wasn't he ? ie. financial engineers that created the global financial crisis ?

As for infi's waffle about us moving to the left ?
Sorry but that is absolutely pig s***.
Free higher education gone, medicare under pressure ... all those lefty social reforms are going. We have slowly moved more and more to the right, the modern labor party is very much center it has to because looking after the left will not get them anywhere.

Little things like in the 90s you would never have had a pollie talk about muslim people having to accept Australian values, or having "occa" tests on naturalisation. Even little stuff like people with flags in their yards.


I honestly think this whole ute thing is an effort by someone inside the liberal party to discredit Turnbull it's the only explanation. Turnbull being ex-legal must have been given more then a hearsay and some second hand evidence.

He was part of the Macquarie millionaire factory wasn't he ? ie. financial engineers that created the global financial crisis ?

obes, such a poor troll with your bad information just throwing it out there so someone has to correct you. is that even trolling? or is it just being dumb?

first, macquarie created the financial crisis? please

second, he didn't work for even macquarie. he was a defense lawyer, took on the British Mi5 (google spycatcher) got heaps of press for winning, then landed a job as a lawyer for CPH (packer's company).

oh he's a lawyer

no wonder he's such a c***

i think you would be hard pressed to find a politician that doesn't have an LLB.

Maxine McKew.

there's plenty of them - they're called union officials.

and they're top blokes unlike those lawyering sons of bitches.

Hahah watching the bickering on the floor is awesome. OK GUISES WE NOW KNOW THE EMAIL IS FAKE AND THAT YOU WHERE ACTUALLY EMAILING A LOT OF CAR YARDS BUT BUT BUT HOW MANY PHONE CALLS DID YOU MAKE I DEMAND ANSWERS ABOUT PHONE CALLS NOW!@#!???

I wonder if some phone logs will be provided and then they'll ask how many car yards he talked about to his wife at night in bed next.

Watching the bulls*** that goes on in the parlimant just makes you think there must be a better system, f*** they crap on, both sides. they act like little children, and they are getting payed hundreds of thousands a year to do this? it just doesnt seem right.

don't feed the obestroll. he loves spurting random crap about s*** he has no clue about. i remember that thread about FX speculation where obes quoted some dude from the United States Foreign Exchange... an institution which doesn't exist. turned out it was some blurb from some s*** c*** trying to sell an online platform for FX trading.

don't bother repsonding to obes, even if you're right he'll just change what your talking about anyway. you can't beat a troll.

@ viper:

Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.

Sir Winston Churchill

Rudd has more money than Turnball. The fact that his wife earned it is trivial when it comes to his personal wealth.

That's completely and utterly wrong. Rudd didn't even make the BRW list as far as I am aware, whereas Malcolm did.

Google revealed this - http://www.youngandgrumpy.com/2009/05/malcolm-turnbull-brw-list-richest.html. Link didn't work for me after I clicked it form this forum. Google "Australia's richest politicians' and you'll find it - YG News.

It says this:

Federal Leader of the Opposition Malcolm Turnbull is worth about $178 million, placing him as Australia's 182nd richest person. He's the wealthiest Member of the Federal Parliament too.

I think the comparison was $174million (Malcom) to $50 million. The BRW guy said that you needed at least $100million to make the list, so Rudd didn't even come close (see I wasn't that far off for Malcom's figures).

last edited by Triamks at 19:05:27 23/Jun/09

f*** labour!

huh, prostitutes?

no i think you mean 'f*** labor'. if you're going to be a blindly partisan hack at least learn how to spell the name of the guys you don't like.

he was a defense lawyer, took on the British Mi5 (google spycatcher) got heaps of press for winning, then landed a job as a lawyer for CPH (packer's company).

none of which is how he made his millions ... nice story tho
I'll think you'll find Turnbull made his money working in merchant banks (I could easily be wrong about the Macquarie link, but I know he worked for 2 or 3 merchant banks and definately with Goldman Sachs. And Goldman Sachs was one of the banks that basically became insolvent!!!

He was invloved as one of the finaciers of Ozemail where he sold his interest when it got bought by the Americans(which is also where he made most of his money). Not so bad.

But check out Silvania Forest Products and Axiom Forest Resources sometime. Another one of his companies. Basically the clearfelled the soloman islands.

And if you don't get how hedge funds and finacial derivates along with stupid finacial tools like debt bundling and wholesaling caused the finacial crisis particularly when greedy companies were involved you be even stupider.

He may be a trained laywer, but he made his millions as a merchant banker.

actually i think i've heard he had something to do with Gunns, who basically want to make a paper plant in tasmania

none of which is how he made his millions ... nice story tho

classic troll move, if you are wrong just change the question. nice one obes.

i was answering your rebuttal to my statement that he is self made. you replied that he came out of Macquarie bank (wrong).

he worked for packer, then started his own merchant bank, then ended up the chairman of Goldman Sachs Australia.

And Goldman Sachs was one of the banks that basically became insolvent!!!

And he didn't work there then, or did you miss that part?

Ara you tried to make out he isn't from that sector, that he is a lawyer and not a merchant banker.
It's you who is wrong not me. You are arguing over brand names (he ate at maccas or hungry jacks ? who cares they both be fast food). Infact he worked for a company with a more direct link to the GFC.

His money has nothing to do with being a lawyer and a lot to do with being a merchant banker.

And he didn't work there then, or did you miss that part?

What does that have to do with anything ? He did work there. He didn't leave because of a higher moral purpose.
He comes from a background, and made money in a company that has proven (at great detriment to the whole world) to be unsustainable!

But regardless ara, you are making a case for how bright he is. I agree he's bright, far far far smarter then me. But I'll make a case that he is greedy and motivated by power not a common good, Why ?
1. He's a mechant banker
2. Go check out his company's handwork in Solomons
3. This carthing, he saw a chance with a dodgy email he probably heard about 3rd hand and ran with it before he got the facts

Infact I believe he still has outstanding court proceedings relating to HIH ?
Had to look for it, but I remembered reading it 2 weeks ago
The Australian


edit...
Oh and lets not forget how much time, effort and money has gone into a freakin crappy ute.

Nevermind that this week they are supposed to be hammering out emmisions trading.


last edited by Obes at 23:08:37 23/Jun/09

I'm sorry but I'm a bit dumbfounded by all the love for Tony Abbott.

Not doubt he is a competent Minister(ex) but he is one of the most arrogant Politicians ever, and an arse licker.

Sorry as much as I detest having retards run the country there is no way in hell I could ever vote for that prick as PM.

So now you are painting anyone who works for a financial institution as bad or evil? Come on Obes. To link him back to the cause of the GFC is just dumb. He is no more to blame than you or I.

He got his start in law, received massive coverage due to the spycatcher case here and overseas and then landed a job as a lawyer for packer. To say his money has nothing to do with him being a lawyer is naive in the extreme.

Go read the Rise and Rise of Kerry Packer, there is a whole chapter on him in there.

To me it makes no difference, he got himself to where he is from hard work and he has worked in the "real world" more that KRudd, which was my original point before you got side tracked by your wrong assumptions about Macquarie Bank.

Yeah, I couldn't vote for Tony Abbott either. He is just way to conservitive when it comes to women's rights and gay rights for my liking.

so now it looks like godwin grech is a coalition mole

dodgy

Obes I haven't looked into it at all but I suspect he was probably chairman of Goldman Sachs Australia, which would be treated as a subsidiary or seperate business strand from the parent business. or at least that's how most investment banks set up their australian operations.

so if that were the case, to paint the son with the sins of the father is again a misinformed troll move.

Wow I bet Malcolm wishes he never bought into this one. The Coalition have played into the hands not of the Government but of the media! Oh well, better luck next time haha.

Without the rock solid evidence I don't know how they ever thought they could mount a capital case against the government. As much as Swan's conduct reeks of cronyism, who cares really, that's what being in government is all about.

The Coalition should be much more focused on the destructive ETS the Government is trying to ram through the Senate. LET IT GOO.

i so don't care about this at all n wish the media would stop flogging it.. it just makes ALL of our polititions look like fkn dills. even worse i saw a bit of state parliment on tv the other night where they were drawing s***ty caricatures of each other ffs... i had to turn it off.. it was embarrassing. :(

Heh, if you think Rudd is amateur compared to Howard, then Turnbull is an amateur compared to Rudd. Turnbull can't even check his facts before opening his big trap

Kevin is an ameteur LIKE TIGER WOODS

I'm surprised Faceman hasn't piped up with some 'ZOG' Liberal plot to take down Labor.

Edit: Doh, someone got in before me, and doh, I just realised it's news.com.au heh

last edited by Syco at 12:46:19 24/Jun/09

a misinformed troll move.

Nah it's not. Its a massive generalisation.

I think most merchant bankers make lawyers look like charity workers. They perform a totally redundant function in society, making money using all manner of questionable means and when it goes balls up (and they quite frequently do) a lot of people get burnt that had absolutely nothing to do with it. I dislike financial engineering (eg. massive margin forex trading, most if not all derivatives, naked short selling) and I tend to generalise those people into being a similar sort of creature as "pay day loan" services.

Interestingly Turnbull, Gretch amd Hockey were all involved at some stage in the HIH investigations.

Merchant bankers are quite important actually Obes, when they operate as part of a properly functioning and regulated economy.

Their job is to assess risk. By assessing risk, they evaluate the likelihood of success of a venture and assist in the economy's efficient allocation of resources.

Just remember Gordon Gecko: "Greed is good. It clarifies."

Now unless you are going to disown capitalism altogether like the Chameleon did in his Christmas essay you have to accept that inherent in this system is the boom/bust cycle. It is just part and parcel of the game.

Merchant bankers exploit differentials in valuations and are adept at processing large amounts of information and arbitraging their way in and out of assets for the benefit of the market at large.

Commercial banks on the other hand are the dangerous ones. I don't brake for bankers.

plus its rhyming slang for wanker

like the Chameleon did in his Christmas essay

Is that Rudd? I thought he was the Chairman? I can't f***ing keep up with all the silly nicknames.

Merchant bankers exploit differentials in valuations

for there own personal gain, and realy dont give a f*** who it screws a few months/years down the line, as long as they have gotten there money out in the meantime.

But yeah its the world we live in, some people obviously just dont have a conscience

viper, for their client's gain.

No I mean for the own gain, how many deals have we seen go ass up recently, where the clients would have lost money, but I'm sure as hell the merchant banker would have taken his bonus and pissed of by the time the s*** hits the fan.

examples please?

it doesn't really matter though because if your argument was true there would be no clients lining up to invest their money with those banks.

if you screw your investment clients, they leave. it isn't like retail banks where you are locked into your mortgage for the next 15+ years.

I think most merchant bankers make lawyers look like charity workers. They perform a totally redundant function in society, making money using all manner of questionable means and when it goes balls up (and they quite frequently do) a lot of people get burnt that had absolutely nothing to do with it. I dislike financial engineering (eg. massive margin forex trading, most if not all derivatives, naked short selling) and I tend to generalise those people into being a similar sort of creature as "pay day loan" services.

obes, without trying to sound condescending all that post belies is a complete lack of understanding of what you're talking about. i'm not going to spend my time explaining where you're going wrong - any 1st year finance textbook could do that. naked short selling is the only point i'd agree with, but i cbf arguing with you... i've wasted enough of my life beating my head agaisnt my desk due to your superb trolling skills, no more for me thanks.

but if merchant bankers are redundant why do they get paid hundreds of billions of dollars globally for their services? is every corporation/individual who has ever contracted an investment/merchant bank for underwriting/IPOS & capital raising/advice/mergers/etc stupid?

What I'd love to know is how the Feds are so sure that it is a fake. It is impossible to tell the difference between a good fake and a good cover-up.

Like Tony Abbott said, we still can't get any reports about the fire on the asylum seekers boat on Ashmore Reef months after the investgation, yet word got out about the fake email the very day it was investigated.

The Rudd government has used the AFP for their own political purposes.

Maybe the the Liberals should have thought of it first and used the AFP for their own political purposes before throwing out false accusations and demanding resignations without actually working out whether they were founded...?

haha kos, i had to use every fibre of my being not to reply to infi's post

me > infi > you

spook its best to ignore trolls like infi.

Pfft Spook, you get trolled by infi way more than I do. That equality is ALL wrong. ;P

dudes, you know I'm better. And using AFP for political purposes is bad hahahahaha