Not about bulls*** filtering, we have that and I can live with/understand it.

I was wondering about your work connection speeds. Yesterday we apparently had a backlog on our email servers because 'a few' people sent an email "Greater them 10mb".

10mb. Serious?

I thought this was a relic from the days where everyone was still on dial-up and 10mb was a formadible adversary for connections to handle.
I'm in medium sized office (~500-600 people or something) so I could understand if 400 people suddenly all sent a 10+ mb email at the same time it might cause a few problems.

I just dont see how a 'few people' sending 10+mb emails can slow down an Email server for a few hours. The Majority of my work is internal and most external work is easier to sent out on a CD/USB-Drive (~300mb) anyway so it doesn't really affect me, just got the "Dont use over 10mb in a email" email and it got me thinking. It also said in the email that;

Because all organisations pay for downloads - so when they receive an email with 10mb or more of attachments it would cost big $$$ so they set rules/limits to what they will accept as a download thus your email could be rejected.

I guess at least someone here might be incharge of an Email server, could you let us know whythings are still restricted so heavily?

not so much the size of the transfer but the added cost of storage + backups for the mailstore. if you have 600 ppl sending big emails around all day (even internally) it adds up pretty quick.

i don't see how a few 10mb emails would cause your email server to start f***ing up unless you're on dialup

More argument in favor of having MRTG graphs on *everything* so there's evidence when helpdesk/ITS come up with BS excuses.

my work blocks facebook now :*(

hahah... they probably did you a favour actually. i think i will delete my account.

don't do that russ D:

who are you infi?, i dont even know you lately

We have 2 internet connections; 10Mbit metered and 2Mbit unmetered. Both terminate in our DC and then there's an MPLS network connecting our office to the DC which is a 2Mbit connection. Staff is around 35 people and our email is hosted in the US (Exchange 2007) and we've never had problems with people sending large attachments.

Sounds like a BS reason IMO.

We get our internet connection through a proxy in Sydney. Our link to the Sydney data centre is 3mbit via Frame Relay (and its unbelieveably s***). Funny - Telstra are actually here right for the fibre haul for our new IPMAN connection. We're moving to 10mbit on Friday.
We have 350 staff.

As for the actual connection - not sure... I've seen 2MB downloads in Sydney...

last edited by mongie at 09:50:00 18/Nov/08

where i work the internet is so fast my hard drive is the bottle neck if were flopping ewangs

Uh, we have a ridiculously huge connection here and I still get pissed off if I get an email that is bigger than a few megabytes. I almost NEVER send email with big attachments unless I simply have no other choice.

If they're 10mb work-related emails, well, there's probably not a lot that can be done about that, but I can't see anything even remotely weird about the request from your company to not send big emails.

I just dont see how a 'few people' sending 10+mb emails can slow down an Email server for a few hours.

Next time you're at home, queue up a bunch of items for FTP to some remote host. Put, say, 5 10mb items at the start of the queue, and then a bunch of smaller ones at the end of the queue, and see how long it takes for the smaller ones to get processed.

yeeah i think the point is you're not meant to be sending 10mb emails, hence there isn't any needs for massive upload speeds for servers

10mb e-mails? We have clients who send 100MB e-mails.

I'm on 100mbit @ work (working for an ISP)

but for you regular folk, if you had 5 people uploading 10mb at once that could quite easily add up to 2MB/sec

Most offices I would say probably don't have a full clear 2MB channel of upload bandwidth, so yes it could cripple them
Imagine trying to upload 5x10MB files via ADSL, it would pretty much grind to a halt for a half hour

well they are retards mingie

Most offices I would say probably don't have a full clear 2MB channel of upload bandwidth, so yes it could cripple them
Imagine trying to upload 5x10MB files via ADSL, it would pretty much grind to a halt for a half hour

ADSL is different technology to what businesses *should* be using. Frame relay, SHDSL, fibre, etc could easily handle 5x10Mb files at once. Effectively it's 50MB you need to send and at say a 2Mbit 'business-grade' connection that would take < 5 minutes (based on my simplistic math of 50MB = 400Megabit / 2Megabit = 200 seconds / 60 seconds = 3.33 minutes).

There needs to be some limit.

Things I have seen at work. Someone zipped up their c drive and tried to email it to their home account ... why you blocking my 7gig email ? (no s***).

Seen 50meg publisher (lets not resample your photos) documents emailed to 350 staff (cos a 1MB pdf that everyone could read is too hard.. oh and it was just a flyer to a staff party, could have been a 5k email). Work that one out... 350 *50 on server grade storage all for an email no one reads (or deletes I bet their will be copies of that email unread in 5 to 10 years time). Plus a number of our staff use wireless broadband or 3g to get their email yay for pointless download costs.

Email is not a file transfer protocol. Its a text communication device, the only person I know that could crack 10mb of meaningful text and still not be ready to stop is hitman. We allow more (30mb), but it blocks anything bigger you can still send it but you can come explain why you are doing such crazy things.

I get attachments are nice and easy I use them myself. But over 10MB ? Get a better way to send it. FTP, SFTP, HTTP form uploads, to the person accross the hall ? try a USB drive or network share... etc etc

We have to store every email, and then backup that stored email, as well as store the original, and a backup of the original. ie. your 100MB email, is now in your sent, their recieved, plus the original = 300MB.
A single large file that gets emailed can end up costing a bunch of real dollars in storage, more so when you start talking SAN storage (30c a gig).

My pet hate at the moment if the email that sends an attachment to all (350+) staff, why not give the file to our web guy and send a url to the file with a brief synopsis. Or Just put it on a network share and say its at "q:\nudgee\weekly briefing". Say its a 10meg file to 350 staff. 3.5G SAN storage is 30c a gig. That email cost a dollar something. Then someone hits reply to all and includes original and adds "haha thats funny"... $2 something. Now make that say 8 times a week, 40 weeks a year. $500 sending pountless emails. Thankfully we have started to change that culture here.

ADSL is different technology to what businesses *should* be using.

Agreed, but that wasn't my point
Even if you had 2MB frame relay etc, you've still only got 16mbit up and if you've got 50MB of data heading out with no QoS or shaping happening (common), you're screwed

at 100% utilisation it would totally cripple your 'net for 30 seconds or more, even in a perfect world where you're seeing a full 16mbit (so unlikely its not funny)

you can pay for a 1:1 contention ratio but you're still highly unlikely to see it

we had someone at work download 12GB in one month off headbook or myspace or wahtever its called... it was quickly blacklisted after that. once again an example of the minority f***ing it for the majority and the majority letting it happen (manager making the call to block all social networking sites rather then just banning that user from the web - like should have happened. now my work mate cant check to see when his kid needs pickup from shcool, because he used to use that headspace page... hes goto give his kid a mobile now, sigh).

the idea that a manager would request a change be made so that something completely unrelated to work, couldn't be be done with work resources anymore is completely preposterous

tequila thats not how corporate net usually works, usually they are using layer 2/3 gear (cisco or other pointlessly expensive s***) that is able to use a large pipe and split it up into smaller pipes based on whatever conditions you set for instance port 80 http trafic gets 512/512, port 21 or 25 or whatever ftp etc gets 512/512, email gets 1024,1024 etc etc.

jim in our employment contract it states your allowed to use the internet for any purpose during your lunch break and before and after work and during overtime as long as its not one of the things not allowed (porn etc). it's expected that people use sms/mms/email/websites to communicate with their family and friends and that one or two messages sent during the day can cause your employees alot less stress and able to concentrate... one sms sent during the day to clear up something can stop an entire day of worry or constantly checking up or sneeking sms etc

from what you've said, that's making it clear that you're allowed, so you know you can do it where possible instead of wondering if you'll get fired for it. it doesn't mean that the company should have to provide you with the ability to do it.

also, it's actually really easy to make plans with your kids ahead of time and fall back to a simple phone call if something unexpected means plans need to change. both of my kids went to a school that wasn't in walking distance, barely in riding distance especially in summer with a private school uniform, had inflexible school-supplied transport support and poor public transport support and we managed without facebook and even without sms's. while I'm sure there exists some kind of occasional situation where it's actually harder, it's nothing like you're making out imo. and it's certainly not a case of "like should have happened"

you're missing the point, which isn't unlike you at all to do... who couldnt find a work around to the convinient online webpage that both you and your kids share.

the point im putting forward is the minority always f*** it for the majority in life and the majority usually enable this to happen. instead of the minority being specifically punished. i see it all the time in politics and it's even been seen here at QGL/Ausgamers/Gamearena.

I remember the days where you could get something downloaded for you to download 'off usage' for gamearena, but that got stopped or is now monitored. I also remember the days we actually held LAN parties, but that stopped because some f***witt probably tripped over someone clearly in eyesight sleeping on the ground and broke their peice of s*** P3 and now QGL event organisers claim they cant afford the public liability costs, more like they dont make the profits they used to perhaps? I also remember the days of friendly fire on enabled game servers, once again trolls/lulz kiddies f***ed that. could go onnn and onnn... in the end people with the power who are included in the majority let the majority suffer for the actions of the minority.

last edited by Scorp at 12:20:02 18/Nov/08

you stick to headbook scorp

6 ~200mb Emails.
Yeah that would do it.

Maybe ISS isn't so incompetent...

(Although it is ISS that have told me it was 6 200mb ones... Tin hat time?)

internet is a tool for the employer's business. it is their asset. they can control the terms of use and are under no moral obligation to enable it or authorise it for the purposes you have mentioned.

if they do well they can benefit from the warm employee-friendly glow that will surround them.

no thanks paveway, dont have any social networking site accounts and dont ever plan on it. i've seen time and time again them only enabling people that should be a part of your life, be a part of it and all it does is bring people down. the only good thing ive seen come from them is bringing two people that havent talked in ages back together after years of losing contact phone numbers and the ability to track each other down etc.

I didn't miss the point you're trying to put across, it's just completely unrelated to the part of your post that I'm responding to - which I guess means that you missed the point.

I repeat - I don't care about your delusional perspective on the minority ruining things for the majority - it's completely irrelevant, and as you demonstrate time and time again, you just want to have an emotionally-driven whinge and no amount of reasonable response will change that.

Your rambling about gamearena downloads and qgl lans just cement this.

Does anyone else find jim's crushing logic slightly arousing?

I see Jim's point and I raise you another point.

yeah jim your posts that try and counter argue that managers should be able to block facespace and other social engineering sites was very relivant to the OP's post. your first few posts clearly show that you had no intention of commenting on the threads OP rather my posts. your lapdogs posts above only show they cant think for themselves since they praise your flawed logic.

Does anyone else find jim's crushing logic slightly arousing?

No but, I find Jim dreamy, does that count?

Yeah, because work Blocking Myspace was totally on topic too... wait, what?

In fact, I even started in the OP that I think it's ok/understandable for content filters at work. It's a place of work. For working.

What my OP was about is the (seemingly) archaic 10mb limit on emails. Which I've now been told by ISS is because we have to pay extra for any email uploads (Which I don’t understand) and other recipient workplaces have to pay extra (on top of) in order to download these 'extra large' emails (Again, I don’t get?)

With the speed and quota of todays modern workplace, I dont get why a 20mb Email would cost more then a 20mb Upload/download. Or attract any special fees.

Scorp, the way they approached is fine and makes perfect sense.

Ban one user, then another user does it. Ban that user, then another user does it.

Mean while the manager is having his ass kicked by his boss as to why people keep being able to do this, when he should have stopped it a long time ago.

If you just ban the site, it can't happen again and waste COMPANY resources.

If the guy needs to keep in touch with his kid, than something more reliable and secure like a mobile phone is a better idea anyway.

If you pulled your head out of your ass for a minute, you would see that Jim is making a valid point.

What my OP was about is the (seemingly) archaic 10mb limit on emails. Which I've now been told by ISS is because we have to pay extra for any email uploads (Which I don’t understand) and other recipient workplaces have to pay extra (on top of) in order to download these 'extra large' emails (Again, I don’t get?)

Well if you read posts like mine and Obes' above maybe it'll help you understand why such limits still exist. Sending large emails is stupid when there's a billion and a half better ways to do it.

With the speed and quota of todays modern workplace, I dont get why a 20mb Email would cost more then a 20mb Upload/download. Or attract any special fees.

It might not cost more in terms of absolute bandwidth, but from your OP it sounds like that wasn't the point - the point was it disrupted the regular email operations in your company. Which is completely understandable and has a real cost, even if its not in directly measurable dollars and cents.

no thanks paveway, dont have any social networking site accounts and dont ever plan on it. i've seen time and time again them only enabling people that should be a part of your life, be a part of it and all it does is bring people down. the only good thing ive seen come from them is bringing two people that havent talked in ages back together after years of losing contact phone numbers and the ability to track each other down etc.

internets, serious business

What my OP was about is the (seemingly) archaic 10mb limit on emails. Which I've now been told by ISS is because we have to pay extra for any email uploads (Which I don’t understand) and other recipient workplaces have to pay extra (on top of) in order to download these 'extra large' emails (Again, I don’t get?)

With the speed and quota of todays modern workplace, I dont get why a 20mb Email would cost more then a 20mb Upload/download. Or attract any special fees.

Well, if you're emailing 10MB and CCed 10 people you're effectively, sending 10 copies of the 10MB file which equates to 100MB usage. Now if you've uploaded the 10MB file somewhere like your external Website, you don't use up your Office's Net usage as you're not sending 10 copies of the files, you're only using 10MB once to upload to your website. You then simply send your 10 intended recipients the URL to the link, then download it at their own time.

Of course if you're running Exchange or some sort of internal email server which knows that you're sending emails to "internal" office people on the LAN and won't forward the email upstream to your ISP then that argument your ISS gives you is bull. Though it'll clogged your inbox which in itself is also a problem.

So effectively it's using less of the Office Bandwidth, and not affecting other people in the office whilst the files are being sent. It's in turn uses up your website hosting bandwidth. But really your web hosting plans will cope with that better.

last edited by Opec at 14:32:07 18/Nov/08

Flawed logic? I don't see how it's flawed, more and more around the world, work places arent going with black lists, they're going with white lists, only allowing you to access sites they've previously approved. Be happy that your work hasn't done that yet.

Managers don't just have to punish the party that abused their ignorance/good will the first time, they have to prevent it a second time, your manager took an appropriate re-action.

To ban facebook is not really a life ending dilemma. If the kid could use facebook, then he could also have just as easily sent an email. I realise that this sipmle solution probably didn't fit in with your victim mentality, but it's still true.

As for the OP, we use a simple 2MB/2MB link, but yes, just a few large emails can chunk up the network quickly, heck outlook doesn't even particularly like sending them.

if i was a lapdog, i would be a smallish spaniel of some type.

I read your post, which would be fine if everything was in a que. I can have 200+ Torrents going and while the smaller 1mb one is going to take longer then the second or 2 it might normally take, it's not going to take 3-4 hours. There isn't really a need to Que things.

It would also be fairly easy (I thought) to have these large emails go into a holding area and be sent on a timer (say 7:30pm?) to not interupt the daily goings on. I also accepted (in OP) better ways to do things, which is what I do.
Obes had a cry about stupid people. Then suggested better ways (Which, again, is what I do.)

CD is safer, secure and gets a signature so it cant come back to me about not delivering on time/at all.
I get that.

I read your post, which would be fine if everything was in a que. I can have 200+ Torrents going and while the smaller 1mb one is going to take longer then the second or 2 it might normally take, it's not going to take 3-4 hours. There isn't really a need to Que things.

I dunno how your mail server software works, but ours works in a queue, and I suspect most other mail software does as well.

It would also be fairly easy (I thought) to have these large emails go into a holding area and be sent on a timer (say 7:30pm?) to not interupt the daily goings on.

That would make sense, sending larger things in off-peak bandwidth times, but I dunno if anything can do that, and it could disrupt email in case someone absolutely HAS to send something big immediately.

As always, the best way is that people learn everything about the technology they're using and use it wisely and responsibly - but of course its also the hardest way and the least likely to happen!

we have completely unrestricted internet access at work... there aren't even guidelines like 'no porn' n stuff! :D everyone is pretty responsible with thier usage EXCEPT for the general manager! he utorrents from his laptop & his desktop 24/7 !@# sometimes when we are trying to video conference with our factory in singapore we gotta go to his office n shutdown all the torrents so we can get sufficent bandwidth back to have a vid conf :P

i was watching some youtubes just before n they were taking like 15mins to load a 2min youtube... fired off a 'who's f***ing torrenting!@#$!??!' email n suddenly the speed jumped back up again :D

man, ill never forget my missus's old job (wont name company names, but it was satelite control for tractors . . .. )

they had the LOOSEST email laws ever:

pretty much the entire office was swapping porn with other office sites via email

id never seen anything like it!

It's all free, open and unrestricted until Johnny Law steps in and suddenly the place is fined to high f*** because of copyright infringement and breaking a metric tonne of sexual harrasment laws.

you mean until kevin rudd bans it.

we at least have a 10mb email limit... most ppl here are smart nuff to go for ftp, torrents or dcc for files larger than 10mb.

Pics or lying Spook

haha demon

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9414/sydney080910czo8.png

And that's on a slow day. Probably Mammoth Media's link getting caned.

Working for Telstra, workstation effectively plugged into the back of the core router at the Pitt St exchange. Unmetered, unmonitored, it doesn't get much better than this. As you could imagine, not really many problems with large emails or anything. Downloading from ausgamers is, as I've mentioned before, amazingly fast.

red, lets make out, RIGHT NOW

well, you're married, so there's my criteria met. SOLD.

PICS PLS

Work just had this installed
25Mb symmetrical, can go up to 100Mb if required
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6559/antennagn2.jpg
good line of sight
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/9660/usbankag2.jpg

http://www.speedtest.net/result/357863014.png

not sure what's up with the upload part of that test, we ftp video content up to bigpond regularly as fast as we can download

http://www.speedtest.net/result/357867469.png

I'm not exactly sure whats going on, cause I've never ever seen it that fast.

(our 3mbit frame relay bursts up to 6mbit)

http://www.speedtest.net/result/357870350.png

Jim: Maybe because they're not on Telstra or something?

haha demon, I like your workplace :)

I cracked it on Friday!!!! needless to say 40meg emails will not be sent anymore. You get 5meg max from now on. Over it.

2meg Fibre MPLS at work. It's ok, funny how my Melbourne office link is a caining Inode ADSL2+ Extreme which s***s all over it for peanuts. Fkn fix Bulimba exchange already :D :D !!

last edited by Skitza at 18:48:32 18/Nov/08

http://www.speedtest.net/result/358259833.png

Ok, I now know just how the ISS guys feel about emails.
Someone just sent a 92mb file to the b&w printer........

But I can just use another printer, so it's not all bad.