Don't get me wrong I think the Nguyen family losing a member is horrific and I can't possibly imagine what they are going through right now, but I think we have heard enough about it.

He was caught doing something he knew was wrong (hell he was paying off his twin brothers legal costs when he did something similar) and He had enough on him for 26,000 hits (or so the paper says).

While I can understand their outrage I am still confused as to why the news has nothing better to focus on.

The last straw was the fact that Labor and other 'groups' want a cricket test cancelled because it is on the same day as the hanging..... Give me a break!

Linky

Can we arrange to get you hanged as well please ?

any country with the death penatly to me personally isnt civilised and doesnt deserve respect.



last edited by smart at 10:10:23 28/Nov/05

^ In your opinion, which doesn't weight much, sometimes.

gee did I see this thread coming from the poster ....... insensitive bitch

He knew they had the death penalty from the start
He should've gone somewhere where there is no death penalty
or better yet not smuggled drugs in the first place

and yes i am sick of hearing about him, so why bring him up again?

booyah your one to talk ha.

yeah he was guilty fair enough but to the lobbyists who are against the death penalty this is a good occasion to bring exposure to the issue

of course he has no chance out of this one, any sanctions onto singapore would hurt australia more than them since nearly all imports that come into here from asia comes through singapore and all our exports dont necesarily go through them

Change your avatar smart, it's giving me a headache.

Change your avatar smart, it's giving me a headache.

And wtf is up with this white foam coming out of my mouth ????????//111111142

no and lol

anything else?

Capital punishment is barbariac and should be outlawed across the world however it's not. Therefore any [responsible|intelligent|sane|civilised] person wouldn't do the following in a country where the penalties are death.

a) Traffic drugs

So tough titties to you.

Haven't heard s*** about this guy compared to miss 2 pills.

I still say he should be sentenced to die in a manner similar to the way the last guy sent out to kill Titus was

Current drug laws (all over the world) are f***ed... and to kill a person over transporting heroin is just stupid.

Bad luck :(

Stretch the f***ers neck and be done with it, geez what is this, slow news month?

never heard of him

Dear Diary,
Jackpot!

WTF?


but I think we have heard enough about it.


Aside from the word but, which means disregard anything written before it..

WHY make a thread about something that you say you are sick of hearing about? Does it not make sense to not talk about something you dont want to talk about?

wow, how many negatives where in that sentance!

To Whom It May Concern

I'm writing in letter form too, LOL

Regards
me

Those who are sick of hearing about it can choose to not read that part of the paper, or watch that section of the news. For me, this sort of news (that will no doubt essentially cease after his execution today) is a reminder of how lucky we are to live in Australia, how lucky I am not to have friends or family waiting to die for stupid mistakes, and how studying for my exam on Thursday is really not the worst thing that could happen to me...

WHY make a thread about something that you say you are sick of hearing about? Does it not make sense to not talk about something you dont want to talk about?

It was brought upon by the fact that people are calling for the prime ministers cricket match/test to be cancelled simply because it is on the same day that the hanging is scheduled for.

I think this just proves that the issue is no longer about the poor kids life but just another reason to bash the government and keep the media occupied. That says something from an anti liberal voter as well.

accept your consquences people, some laws are f***ed thats for sure. but any reasonable adult understands:
make your choices, choose your consequences

PMXI tour match is an australian tradition
supporting drug trafficers is not.

That still doesnt explain why you choose to talk about something that you stated you are sick of hearing about :/

That still doesnt explain why you choose to talk about something that you stated you are sick of hearing about :/

Because when I talk, I can't hear

lol, fair enough

The only reason the cricket should be called off is if they have the hanging on TV and it clashes.He knew the penalties and should pay the price.People in australia can bitch all they want about how wrong the death penalty is,but the fact is its in another country and nothing we say or do is gonna make them change their minds about it!

Minute of silence at the cricket at the most.

for sporting genius george best and mr miagi (sp).

The thing I find amusing is that when this guy says he's renewed his faith in god the media hypes it up like a great thing, but when Michelle Leslie expressed her faith in allah it was just a publicity stunt.

It was brought upon by the fact that people are calling for the prime ministers cricket match/test to be cancelled simply because it is on the same day that the hanging is scheduled for.

The PM quoted: "The cricket game will go on, because I'm sure its in the best interest of more Australians" Which I agree with.

And some other clowns are calling for a minute silence? We stand a minute silence on 11/11 for the thousands who lost their lives in world war 2? Someone please tell me why the f*** should we share the same respects to some mother f***ing drug trafficer? Rot in hell imo.

last edited by casa at 12:53:13 28/Nov/05

Because Singapore has a diverse range of religions without any one being popular.

Is a minute of silence disrespectful to the people who died at war because we used it for some cricket player who got punched and died? It is not like we say they are of equivalent importance. I wouldn't mind a minute of silence as a protest against capital punishment.

I'll protest by signing an ePetition that'll never get used, not by being quiet for a minute.

Im not agreeing with Kat, but it's his own fault. move on, news over.

*yawn*

He's asian he should know better. Also It's heroin, a high grade drug, And nearly half a kilo of it. ONE REASON ONLY, Smuggler. Not to mention it was actually his brothers so reports say. So his brother has just killed him by making him carry them over for him.

I hope the fact he's sentanced his own brother to death haunts Nguyen's brother for the rest of his natural life.

And hanging? pfftt, puh-lease. That's like so centuries ago. Get with the times :P Even firing squad is better than that. Since we are being rediculously cheap and primitive why not just chop his head off in Gullotein? Shame on singapore, just for the method of execution part.

whatever happened to being Hanged,Drawn and Quatered for traitors? bring it back.

And hanging? pfftt, puh-lease. That's like so centuries ago. Get with the times :P Even firing squad is better than that. Since we are being rediculously cheap and primitive why not just chop his head off in Gullotein? Shame on singapore, just for the method of execution part.

Hanging is less primative and cruel than firing squad.

Do some research.

Sure if ya wanna suffocate to death slowly.

it snaps their neck on the drop. they die instantanously. (when done right)

lethal injection would be a better alternative.

Thanks for pointing out how clueless you are.

The concern has been raised that execution by lethal injection, as practiced in the United States, is not actually humane. It has been argued that the ultrashort-acting anaesthetic may wear off, leaving the inmate fully conscious, yet rendered paralyzed by the paralytic agent. There are several reasons for the concern.

First, sodium thiopental is an ultrashort-acting barbiturate, used in surgery only in the induction phase of anesthesia, specifically so that the patient may awaken and breathe on his or her own power if any complications arise in inserting a breathing tube pre-surgery. It is not used to maintain a patient in a surgical plane of anesthesia because of its short-acting nature.

Second, the second injected chemical, pancuronium bromide, may act to dilute the initial injection of sodium thiopental.

Third, because the personnel involved in administering the injection lack training and expertise in anesthesia, the risk of failing to induce unconsciousness is greatly increased. The dosage of sodium thiopental must be measured with precision, and the administration of the proper amount of the dosage depends upon both the concentration of the drug and the size and condition of the subject. Because of the manner in which the drugs are administered (remotely, with no observation of the inmate), the risk of errors in the injection causing insufficient amounts of chemicals to enter the bloodstream is greatly increased.

and

On occasion, there have also been difficulties inserting the delivery needles, sometimes taking over half an hour to find a suitable vein. Some of the previous errors in Texas executions include:

Technicians punctured the inmate repeatedly in both arms and legs for 45 minutes before a vein was located. (Stephen Peter Morin [6], March 13, 1985)
Executioners struggled for 35 minutes to insert the catheter into an inmate's veins. (Elliot Johnson, June 24, 1987)
24 minutes elapsed between the time the initial injection occurred and the time the inmate was pronounced dead; two minutes into the procedure, the syringe came out of the inmate's arm and the chemicals sprayed out towards witnesses. (Raymond Landry [7], December 13, 1988)
After an inmate had a violent physical reaction to the drugs as they were injected, the Texas Attorney General stated the inmate "seemed to have a somewhat stronger reaction," adding "The drugs might have been administered in a heavier dose or more rapidly." (Stephen McCoy [8], May 24, 1989)
In 2005, University of Miami researchers reported in the medical journal The Lancet that they believed in 43 out of the 49 executions they investigated, the level of thiopental in the blood was lower than that required for surgery. This has lead them to believe that the prisoners were fully aware of what was happening to them. The authors attributed the rate of likely consciousness among inmates to the lack of training and monitoring in the process, and recommended that states take a look at the American Veterinary Medical Association's recommendations on animal euthanasia, which prohibits the use of paralytic agents in combination with barbiturates and recommends animals like cats and dogs be euthanized by a single injection of a long-acting barbiturate such as sodium pentobarbital. [9]

from wikipedia

got a clue?

Guns kill faster. Rarley is a hanging instant death. So anyway, back to why no one except his family should be making a big deal out of this.

Why are you fagots getting into technical details? The fagot is going to die, who gives a s***?

are you that thick a_w?

it can take ages to die from a gunshot, especially if it isnt accurate. Lethal injection and hanging are the two most effective and painless ways of capital punishment there is.

A_W you really have no idea.

You shouldn't base your ideas on what you've seen in movies.

Lethal injection and hanging are the two most effective and painless ways of capital punishment there is.

I agree

It is fair to say that injection is much less dramatic than the electric chair or hanging and probably easier for the staff and witnesses as it looks more like a surgical procedure than an execution. But does it cause the prisoner less suffering overall?
When all goes well, the only physical pain is the insertion of the catheters. If the person's veins are easy to find this can be done in a minute or so.

Its a debate fade, you can look at its pros and cons.

Decapitation would be the best to watch?

Would sitting in a jail cell for 40 years be a greater punishment then death?
A person killed dosnt get a chance to redeem themselves. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone. Who has the right to condem another to death?

^ Singapore

+ the CIA

Could 3 or 5 men not hit you accuratley enough for insta kill tho?

And yes LI is the most effective. However this can also have problems due to human error and the uncontrolled nature of the substence itself as has been previously said.

Overall, the most gruesome way is actually 100% effective and error free. Decapitation. Extremely messy tho, there's alot of pressure in the thick fat veins between the head and the body.

Maybe a better method than LI needs to be found. :)

Could 3 or 5 men not hit you accuratley enough for insta kill tho?

I thought part of the problem is that with firing squad there is the chance that people dont want to be the ones with the killing shot. As such it would kinda suck being shot 5 times but in no major organs.

Could 3 or 5 men not hit you accuratley enough for insta kill tho?

Before you post again, read up on how the indonesians do their firing squads ok.

i would be suprised if A_W intelligence level even allows him/her to read.

yeah that would suck alot Shad.

So then the question is why they keep doing it? it's highly well known and there are even large posters and warnings in various airports. You WILL get caught, people are just throwing thier lives away.

I would vote for being chased off a cliff buy a bunch of naked women.

^
lol, Thundercracker - I don't quite understand WHY you would be running *away* from a flock of naked women...

Agent 99 - You haven't seen enough naked women.

So your Bi then Kat?

meh.

Naked women aren't really my thing.

Still doesn't explain why Thundercracker would be running away from them...I mean, they might be hot (he didn't specify)...

Well if someone said to me "You have two options of death: hanging or getting chased off a cliff by a bunch of naked women" I know I would pick the latter. Preferably not ugly.

edit: spelling

last edited by Thundercracker at 15:35:57 28/Nov/05

no

I don't quite understand WHY you would be running *away* from a flock of naked women...

It's a Monty Python skit from Meaning of Life.

^^ hooray

http://docweasel.com/members/image/05/life/14-cliff.jpg

Im sick of Van Nguyen using the "oh im gonna get put to death" excuse to get off the hook for abusing people online

death by being chased off a cliff by naked women it is! woot!

he did it to pay off his brother's debts

there are other ways of paying off debts

try WORKING

death penalty in this case is darwinism in action. singapore is a f***ed country, why would you go there for any reason, let alone drugs

Kat, I didn’t read all the posts, but you do realise you just encouraged even MORE talk about this s***e don’t you.

I'm sick of hearing about it. Everyone should learn the lesson, Dont strap drungs to yourself becuase it hurts your neck and stuff. That is all.

kill the idiot already.

he had drugs and was planning on selling them, he should hang for it, and so should all the other dicks running around selling them

I can't believe that people are suggesting a minutes silence for a CRIMINAL.

Now Ned Kelly, he's worth a minutes silence

f*** these simple asian countries piss me off, they like making examples out of westerners for drugs, yet they are all corrupted pieces of s*** countries.

i heard on the news just recently about some minister or something who had child porn while he was over in one of those s*** hole countries and he couldn't be charged because it wasn't illegal to have child porn for your own use over there.

Lucky no-one else was trying to use it then.

pave there are laws in place now that mean that if you do something overseas that is illegal here you can get charged when you get back

To answer Kat's question : Y E S !

Nuygen's a convicted hard drug smuggler who demonstrated by his actions he was prepared to import and peddle misery to humankind for personal benefit and gain regardless of the damage he caused in so doing, whether death to addicts or the material injury and social misery caused to Australian society at large by those same addicted cretins who break and enter, steal, commit armed robbery and prostitute themselves in order to feed their vile habit to reward him for his immorality.

Nuygen didn't give a toss about the impact of his actions upon his fellow and Australian society and had no respect for the law when it suited him. He can expect reciprocation in kind from me. We are guaranteed he certainly won't re-offend.

His death will be no loss to Australian society.

Hah, his name is Ming.

the point was that, you can have child porn over there 'for personal use' sounds like a great place.

Well i was gonna have my say but Ming pretty much covered it :P

Why are we giving even the VAGUEST interest in some tosser who was prepared to import 26000 shots of heroin....

fact is... singapore is a sovereign country with its own rules and methods of doing stuff... ive been there and its clean, friendly and safe.
When u come out of teh airport there are signs all over the place about drugs and drug smuggling.

Drug smugglers smuggling in Singapore are STUPID. Darwins theories of natural selection are in process here guys, we will be better off for getting rid of this idiot.

IMO australia should bring back the stretchy neck penalty for those cases proved beyond reasonable doubt, especially for paedophiles and drug smugglers etc

:)

But drugs make the world go round :(

I have to say that unless i ever checked up on Aus news sites i would never have known about mr drug smuggler.
Everyone says he deserves a second chance, think of his poor mother, etc etc.
What about the people who die from overdoses from the drugs he tried to smuggle, what about their mothers who have to deal with the grief of a dead son/daughter who knowingly activated in an illegal activity? (same as this smuggler).
He knew what he was doing, he knew the outcome if he was caught... He made the gamble and lost. The End.

there are worse crimes than giving people what they want

She is just giving people what they want.

there are worse crimes than giving people what they want

Closet pusher????

I'll go get my rope.

Could 3 or 5 men not hit you accuratley enough for insta kill tho?

It's a well know fact that most members of firing squads are keen CS players and as such they pwn with the aimbot when it comes to executions.

:P

On the topic, I think it's incredible that someone wants to have a minute silence, (something directly associated with an acknowledgement of respect for the departed) how many minutes silenece will we have for the people who die from the s*** this guy was going to peddle?

If they were really keen CS players one of them would flash bang the lot of them and Nyugen would kill them all with a DE.

i havnt even heard of the person mentioned in the title
but heres an idea

dont post about a subject that looks like you dont want to hear about

was van nyugen chap caught on a plane with the drugs?
was it on a treadmill?

was van nyugen chap caught on a plane with the drugs?
was it on a treadmill?

You can clearly tell its a photoshop just by looking at it

yeah I'm sick of hearing about it.

he broke THEIR laws, he should be punished by THEIR laws, whether he's a citizen of this country, america, f***ing alien from mars he has to abide by the rules of the country he's in. STFU f*****s and kill him already so we can focus on something more important like I dunno, how to save money on petrol (lol)

If they were really keen CS players one of them would flash bang the lot of them and Nyugen would kill them all with a DE.

wtf is a DE?

\/\/\/ that directed at me?

last edited by whoop at 00:57:04 29/Nov/05

oh yeah, reading posts helps

When u come out of teh airport there are signs all over the place about drugs and drug smuggling.

haha, it's a bit late by then isn't it

"oh, drugs are illegal! right, back on the plane I go"

i'll be commemorating this guy's death with a beer

If they were really keen CS players one of them would flash bang the lot of them and Nyugen would kill them all with a DE.

Actually, they would camp like f*****s outside his cell for hours and the moment he stuck his head round the door. BAM!

:p

a desert eagle whoop u noob

they would camp like fraggots

fixed

they would call him out saying "knives only" and then AWP him

The PM quoted: "The cricket game will go on, because I'm sure its in the best interest of more Australians" Which I agree with.

I agree with casa and the PM

And some other clowns are calling for a minute silence? We stand a minute silence on 11/11 for the thousands who lost their lives in world war 2? Someone please tell me why the f*** should we share the same respects to some mother f***ing drug trafficer? Rot in hell imo.

I've read similar comments in the newspaper editorials and other places - basically, "why do we care about the life of one convicted criminal drug smuggler when there are so many other things out there that should be taking our attention?"

Its sad that this guy is going to the gallows, but when you break the rules and get caught, you've got to be prepared to cop the punishment. As always the stupid Australian media is making this into a massive deal.

Well,he's a twin so at least his mother has another one.

Its ridiculous how that lady came on the news last night and had a big rank about how the pm is still hosting a cricket match hours after he will be hung.

I mean who gives a f***, people die every second of everyday. They are making him out to be this marter its so bulls***. He smuggled drugs into their country, he completly knew what he was risking and yet he still did it. Its sad that he is going to be excecuted but thats life, just like all the other ppl who have tried to smuggle drugs into indonesian/asian countries.

He smuggled drugs into their country, he completly knew what he was risking and yet he still did it.

wasnt he trying to smuggle them out of the country?

anyway ppl deserve what they get but imo there should be no death penalty at all for any crime.

in the time it took you to read this post a couple of kids will die of starvation in ethopia, some south african babies will die of AIDS, those are injustices...punishing a criminal is not.

punishing a criminal is not.

So we should let all criminals run free?

i said punishing a criminal is not an injustice... then it is justice. so, hang the bastard

last edited by fade at 17:42:27 29/Nov/05

It's interesting the public outcry at this sort of thing then you ask them what should be done about heroin dealers in NSW and such where people die on the streets all the time from these drugs they say they wish the drug dealers were rounded up and shot.
In conclusion people don't know s*** from clay.

wasnt he trying to smuggle them out of the country?

I thought he was trying to smuggle it THROUGH singapore...

and into AUSTRALIA.

hanging him is retarded

almost as retarded as wanting a minutes silence for him being hanged

in his anus

In my opinion he shouldn't be hanged.

However, as for the nation stopping the cricket or having a minute silence, I reckon it's going way too far in the opposite direction. He's not a hero or a martyr or someone who has served the country. He is an Australian who is sentenced to die for a crime.
I feel sorry for the family and friends who have to go through the loss, but I don't think it's appropriate to nationally mourn (which is what the minutes silence is in part about, to remember the deeds and lives of the fallen) the passing of someone in his circumstances.

Thanks for watching Oprah.

Sorry fade....took it the wrong way =)

I thought he was trying to smuggle it THROUGH singapore...

same thing

This is my first post on these forums and basically I agree with Kat. Im tired of hearing about this Van Nguyen guy. HE BROKE THE LAW! It was his stupid fault for deciding to break it, hes got to pay the consequences. In this case he broke the law in a country where the consequence is death. Its his problem, not the prime ministers, not the people of australias, HIS!

I belive a minutes silence would be a good thing.

That is, a minuets silence for a person being killed by capital punishment, as a protest against capital punishment.
The name of the person being executed should not be mentioned, for it shouldnt be the person that is being remembered.
It shouldnt matter if they are Australian, Iraqi, Chinese or even American. It just shouldnt happen full stop.

An Eye for an Eye will only make the whole world blind.

Minutes silence for what?

Hundreds of people die in tragic car accidents every day, families lose parents, children, grandparents to diseases every day. We don't hold a minutes silence for them.

Why should a convicted drug trafficer who is being put to death in another country deserve the same respect as those soldiers who fought to protect our freedom?

eK i guess u didnt understand what tollazor said

Everyone would know it was for van nguyen, and it wasn't neccesarily directed at toll, i've heard a number of people calling for a minutes silence.

Its that countries way of keeping people in line. It may not seem humane to us, but if it does the job, more power to them. Im sure less people who live in a country where they know execution was the penalty for breaking a certain law would be stupid enough to break that law.
Im sorry, but I have no care for people who pull that crap and try to get people to sympathize for them. Minutes silence? We never had one before, why start now? If people want to pause for a moment for him then thats their choice.

agreeing with kat in ur first post....urr gunna fit right in ;)

hehehe thanks :D

^ either really really brave, or really really stupid.

Ignorance is bliss.

Also, many people have already pointed this out however I have yet to see a valid reason for; creating a thread on a topic you don't want to see/talk/hear about o.O
The mind boggles.

As for the topic at hand, sucks to be him. I'm not changing me schedual for someone that wants to do something stupic. My own stupid actions take up enough of my time.

"I belive a minutes silence would be a good thing. That is, a minuets silence for a person being killed by capital punishment, as a protest against capital punishment."

In the first place, you - wrongly - assume everyone is against capital punishment, but with an even greater arrogance presume that the majority of Australians who are either in favour or apathetically disposed should pay public homage by an entirely inappropriate highly symbolic gesture conforming with your own view.

Go directly to Jail (sic). Do not pass go. Do not collect $200!

We reserve such public symbolism and consideration for those truly worthy and deserving of empathy, not the promotion of either the personal point of view or political advancement of same.

Nguyen has demonstrated by his action that he is unworthy of continued membership of the human race on this planet. Full marks to the Singaporean government for having the political will and courage respectful of maintaining the ethical divide between his ilk and those who do pay proper due.

If 'unconditional' forgiveness belongs to God entire - conditional to accepted belief according those who believe, (now there's the conundrum:) - what has he or any of us to fear from wrong action. All must die. But on this planet, let retribution be ours.

"An Eye for an Eye will only make the whole world blind."

A cliche'd nonsense.

So you'd suggest what? Turning the other cheek to get yourself slapped twice - but more probably beaten senseless. You haven't had much to do with the behavioural examples of human refuse true criminals represent have you? Let God and clergy mind their souls whilst the police and judiciary minds their behaviour.

All argument against Capital punishment is based upon statistical BS alluding it doesn't *prevent* crime. That's a nonsensical argument becaue it's based upon an unrealistic expectation of humanity and so a false premise.

One can never eliminate wrong action entirely simply because of the natural predisposition of man's thinking "I won't be the one" (to be caught) reinforced through the regeneration of the species always having to repeat the same mistakes and relearn the same lessons. Youth is particularly susceptible to a delusional belief in its invulnerability, inconceivable of its own mortality or suffering until faced with the undeniable imminent imposition thereof. eg: Nyugen, Corby, Bali 9, et al. However, whilst crime is never "eliminated" by threat of CP, it sure as hell reduces it significantly just as corporal punishment modifies and maintains behavioural standards effectively.

In the absence of the idealistically naive universal self-disciplined conscience beyond commission of offence, the strongest deterrant to any wrong action is the sure knowlededge of a swift highly visible and harsh retribution.



last edited by MiNG at 17:19:53 30/Nov/05

last edited by MiNG at 17:20:03 30/Nov/05

I don't agree with capital punishment but I think anyone trying to smuggle drugs in and out of a country with the death penalty is retarded... they can't be paying you *that* much surely.

The only thing I will say is that while I'm sick of hearing about it, it's nice to think they're finally paying attention to a drug smuggler who's not an easily marketable young woman.

All argument against Capital punishment is based upon statistical BS alluding it doesn't *prevent* crime. That's a nonsensical argument becaue it's based upon an unrealistic expectation of humanity and so a false premise.

It certainly prevents that offender from committing any more crime.

The only reason it probably has no effect is because it isn't used enough to have an effect. If they killed everyone who committed a crime, I'm sure crime would fall drastically!

Replace 'crime' with 'population' John.

And capital punishment is great, except that innocent people will and have been executed and will continue to be, so therefore it is unworkable imo.

Nguyen is a prime example of natural selection in action

Couple of comments.

1. I wouldn't advocate the death sentence with levity or as the be and end all answer to societal maledy. Nor am I entirely without compassion knowing full well Nguyen is still a sentient being. But life's experience has made me a committed believer to the view that harsh penalties including corporal punishment and the death penalty should be imposed upon perpetrators of serious crime as well as habitual criminals.

2. Re Nguyen occupying prime waste of space in the news. The view of the political cynic or unaligned erudite might be that it is a deliberate distraction on the part of a quasi-monopolised and undeniably collusional media to take the mainstream public focus away two other much more important current issues. Firstly, the lack of debate and rushing of the "Terrorism Laws" through the senate, which in effect poses ominous threat to the liberty of all Australians. The second is of course in distracting the mainstream public whilst they do the same with the hugely resented and overwhelmingly unpopular Industral Relations "reforms".

Hahaha true. Note, I don't particularly support capital punishment, just stating facts. Though falling population is probably even more benificial than falling crime, especially environmentally.

Except when it is you and those you care about who begin to fall into the catagory of falling population :P

I used to be a huge advocater of capital punishment, untill I read a few stories of people who were clearly wrongfully executed, and I decided that if that happens even once, then you simply can't have the death penalty.

last edited by fpot at 18:07:24 30/Nov/05

"people who were clearly wrongfully executed, and I decided that if that happens even once, then you simply can't have the death penalty"

Whilst I don't disagree with your right to express or hold that view, or contest that juries don't ever wrongly convict, it is nonetheless a romantic nonsense even in a civilised state. We are currently enveloped in a madness of the "rights" of the individual usurping the overall benefits and best interests of the societal group.

Life's just not fair. In fact, life is an absurdity. "The Myth of Sisyphus" by Camu can assist in the realisation of this.

If you or I happen to be the one so aggrieved, so be it. In this particular instance it's Nyugen. Nothing to be distressed about. Momento mori. God's will and "the other side" for those who believe in such a deity and death as a transition to "another world", fate for the supersticious or circumstancial misfortune for those who don't. The individual must die anyway. If anything is important it's that the greater societal good of the group and the state are served through preservation of ethics.






last edited by MiNG at 19:47:16 30/Nov/05

Well, Nyugen is clearly guilty so I don't really care whether he is executed or not. I was more referring to instances where DNA evidence or the realisation that a confession was made under extreme duress has cleared someone, after their execution. I believe that because of those possibilties, (and many more) that have happened, you cannot have the death penalty and we just have to accept imprisonment as a viable substitute.

Ming for President!

Getting back to Capital Punishment....

1) There are no re-offenders
2) Its a hell of a lot cheaper (and more humane imo) than incarcerating said offender for a long period

^ either really really brave, or really really stupid.

Well, I dont know any of you people yet so I suppose time will tell?

last edited by Padwenda/Kandi at 23:49:36 30/Nov/05

Do they still make the executions public.

Last I heard they don't thanks to NZ's armay force when they were in there for a period of time they took an esky full of piss got trashed and started to yell out "stretch his neck, hang that bastard" etc.

NZ's army no longer allowed in Bali.

dont they shoot you in bali?

yes spook.

and when was NZ in bali? its been sovereign indonesian territory longer than NZ has existed.... i think sover got confused.

not many poloticians are complaining about the death penalty in the USA.

nor were many people against calling forthe death penalty for the bali bombers.

whilst I agree drug running and blowing up people are two very different crimes, you're either against capital punishment or you're not. You can't pick and choose!

these drug runners have full knowledge of whats going to happen to them if they get caught.

if they don't like the idea of DEATH when getting caught, then they should pick a different country..

you do the crime and get caught then you pay the fine and if the fine is death, then so be it..

the simple answer is don't do it..

last edited by Primal at 10:35:23 01/Dec/05

Dear fade ...
Indonesia has only existed since 17 August 1945 (when they declared independance) or depending on your view 27 December 1949 (when the dutch aknowledged it)...
Directly prior that it was Japanese (invasion during ww2), and prior to that Dutch. And before that the Portugesse, Dutch and Spanish "shared" the islands.

New Zealand on the other hand became a seperate colony to NSW in 1841 and became independant in 1907 by royal decree, gaining full independance in 1931 by the UK Parliament, and the New Zealand Parliment accepted it in 1947.

More to the point fade you misunderstood his comment.

Various Au/NZ (ANZACs) armed services used to attend the public hanging in SE asian countries etc etc and take eskies. eg. The Australian Army used to go to public hanging in Malaysia and cheer when they fell through the gallows etc etc now they are closed affairs.

2) Its a hell of a lot cheaper (and more humane imo) than incarcerating said offender for a long period

I've heard that's not true but cbf looking it up.

f*** capital punishment

I think he gets hung about 9am tomorrow morning our time.

Man, he must be feeling like f***ing s*** right about now.

Man, he must be feeling like f***ing s*** right about now.

Yes I bet he wishes he never got himself into this s*** that's for sure.

last edited by Psycho! at 00:31:19 02/Dec/05

I saw my sig being used in a post and felt compelled to post >:|

A minute's silence is completely stupid, and I hope people suggesting it to the media get hanged.

Capital Punishment is something that a country with it believe's in, just as we don't believe in it.
Start trying to enforce our opinions and views on everybody else and are you trying to achieve world peace, or world domination?

Stop the oppression.

Van Nguyen = dead

Looks like he was hung at 8am our time so if anyone wants to say something to him, you've missed your chance.

Does this mean the end of this thread?

Probably, though it just seems to have been left hanging.


/end bad taste.

tomorrows headlines:
Long drop and a quick stop - ARU sacks eddie

I feel sorry for the mother, family and friends...I can't imagine how horrified they would all be

Van Nguyen's uligy...


PWNED!

I look at all the lives the 430+ grams of heroin would have helped to further destroy and can't help but think the singaporians did the right thing.

P.S Eulogy

Pitty those people who would have bought bits of that 430+ grams of heroin will only get it elsewhere. If they cant they will find something else to substitute, whatever helps them avoid reality.

Death to the Drug mules, long live the big dealers!

last edited by Tollaz0r! at 12:26:15 02/Dec/05

Huzzah!

"look at all the lives the 430+ grams of heroin would have helped to further destroy and can't help but think the singaporians did the right thing"

Precisely. Well said.

It may present as insignificant as a single lifeboat for Titanic. But if it's you or one of your loved ones has a seat in it and saved....

Relativity kinda' alters perspective.

Nguyen's now paid society its due. Peace be upon him.

he's no angel, even with the excuse of "needing money to pay off his brothers debts" you don't just easily find a drug "baron" (for lack of a better word) and offer your services as a courier, he must have been in these circles to begin with

the more i think about it the more i consider how pointless the death penalty is in this instance. what does it achieve. i have changed my mind and think the killing of this boy is a grave misjustice.

he will never be able to make amends for his actions because he is dead. how futile... how sad...

to err is human and to forgive is devine.

At least his death was not pointless. He serves as a good example for any other fool who wants to try traffic drugs in Asia

wonder how long it will take ogrish to get the execution vid

So who wants to guess what the next subject of interest will be for the irrational bleeding hearts and cash in media now this is over.

infi although it is a waste if he was going to make amends for his past misdeeds but if they had released him how long do you honestly think it would take for him to start muling drugs again because he needs the money?

Most likely he would be smarter about it and avoid harsh countries and continue to supply death to people all over the world.

this just shows to the drug mules that australia is a way better target to bring drugs to because we wont kill them.

Its pretty sad that the australian govermenet didn't send in the SAS to get him out and kill a heap of viet cong at the same time.

for those who say, execute the drug lords, not the drug mules who are only working for them

I say - "kill 'em all"

starting with the ones you actually managed to catch

I hope this puts his d******* of a brother on the straight and narrow from now on.

"Give someone enough rope and they'll hang themselves in the end." These people who are actually cocky enough to try and pull this type of trafficking off are seriously deserving of all they get. A 20K debt is nothing and any bank/building society would have leant him the cash. That was just pure bulls*** of course as an excuse. He was in it for nothing less than what he thought was 'easy' money as all mules are. The great shame is that he was just an expendable assett to the drug bosses who seem to have a limitless supply of idiots lined up prepared to take these risk. It would be interesting to see the impact on trafficking importation of drugs in/out of Australia if we introduced the DP.

The Bali 9 will go the same way, they are as good as dead.

Also it was interesting to watch FOX this morning when the Sky News reporter was interviewing a correspondent over in Singapore and trying very hard to get emotive/sad/ indignant responses or reports of people 'over there' shocked or horrified at the execution. Interestingly enough he didnt get squat, the reporter told him that the great majority of locals supported the death panalty, supported their governments stance on it, also reported that drug traficking was greatly reduced because of it ect..ect.. the TV interviewer quickly shut him down because he wasn't getting the responses he (and his director i reckon) wanted.

SO u reckon some poor nigga in Africa can just wander down to his local bank and borrow $20k? I think to assume all "mules" are just doing it for "easy" money is over simplifying it a little bit.

I agree that Van Nguyen broke the law and therefore must be prepared for the consequences. That said, there doesn't seem to have been any sort of trial in front of a judge that I recall. ALso I think death by hanging is pretty gruesome. Death by lethal injection seems far preferable.

I look at all the lives the 430+ grams of heroin would have helped to further destroy and can't help but think the singaporians did the right thing.

Pity these people are consenting adults.

hast said "Pity these people are consenting adults."

Er, the missing word is "responsible". You can't really present such a perspective and expect anyone rational to accept it as legitmate?

Psycho! Thanks mate. Misanthrope that I have become, you almost restore hope of finding a lost Australian intelligencia with your perspicacious post. ;P



last edited by MiNG at 19:41:01 02/Dec/05

*erherm* Time to deal with this the Aussie way and make a few jokes. If they've already been told, I'm sorry. I'm on 31k dial up atm so screw loading every page.















Van Nguyen will be the first asian to know what it is like to be well hung...

^^ hahaha classic

so you are saying everyone who consumes heroin is irresponsible? No room for individual preference I guess.

hast queried: "so you are saying everyone who consumes heroin is irresponsible?"

Stupid would probably be a more apt description, but I sense the tenor of seriousness in your question and so I don't want to extoll truth through humour at your expense.

I'm actually puzzled that you could similarly consider that a question for which one could provide other than an affirmative answer, so here's an answer by way of a question...and I'm not looking to take the piss.

Other than legitimised use of its derivitive morphine or the less effective synthetics for relief of chronic pain and palliative care by means of prescription, perhaps you might be able to explain for me how the acquisition and intravenous use of an otherwise illegal, very addictive, seriously behaviour altering drug could be considered in any way "responsible" adult behaviour? The following caveat notwithstanding. Though their irresponsible conduct got them to this point in the first place, recovering addicts on the methadone program (not heroin per se) and such similar idiosyncratic legal exceptions excluded.

MiNG, are you sure you belong on QGL? I've read every one of your posts and you reply like you belong at some wanky English private school.

8-)

I think to assume all "mules" are just doing it for "easy" money is over simplifying it a little bit.

Well I am not claiming to be an expert but after nearly 30yrs as a police officer, I have seen my fair share of the heartache and devastation that drugs do to peoples/families lives. I wholeheartedly include the abuse of alcohol in that statement as well. I can say from experience that predominantly the people who 'move' drugs do so for no other reason than to make easy money either to support their own habit or other vices or to build a network of their own.

Ok, granted old Joe ( I wont use 'nigga' as I find it offensive) in Africa might not be able to borrow 20k easily, but this guy in this country could have done it in less than 24 hrs. If his brother was in so much debt surely a loan using mum's house as collateral was a viable altenative to travelling to a foreign country and trafficking in drugs which attracted a death penalty.?

Psycho! Thanks mate. Misanthrope that I have become, you almost restore hope of finding a lost Australian intelligencia with your perspicacious post. ;P

Other than legitimised use of its derivitive morphine or the less effective synthetics for relief of chronic pain and palliative care by means of prescription, perhaps you might be able to explain for me how the acquisition and intravenous use of an otherwise illegal, very addictive, seriously behaviour altering drug could be considered in any way "responsible" adult behaviour? The following caveat notwithstanding. Though their irresponsible conduct got them to this point in the first place, recovering addicts on the methadone program (not heroin per se) and such similar idiosyncratic legal exceptions excluded.

*thanks Ming...and by the obvious intelligence, grammatical correctness and composition behind your posts, I think we might actually have a smart person in our midst. (Doctor or Lawyer?)

This forum will never be the same. Intelligent debate has no place here don't you know.

:P

hahah wtf ming

its +EV to consume heroin

provide an argument that it isn't

I can say from experience that predominantly the people who 'move' drugs do so for no other reason than to make easy money either to support their own habit or other vices or to build a network of their own.

OMFG PEOPLE ONLY DO THINGS OUT OF SELF INTEREST WHAT A f***ING BRILLIANT OBSERVATION A+++++

last edited by hast at 01:35:05 03/Dec/05

OMFG PEOPLE ONLY DO THINGS OUT OF SELF INTEREST WHAT A f***ING BRILLIANT OBSERVATION A+++++

You will notice I made my statements in reply to this comment:-

I think to assume all "mules" are just doing it for "easy" money is over simplifying it a little bit.

Perhaps if YOU made some obvious 'observations' you wouldn't have painted yourself as such an itenerant imbecile with such a caps induced post.

last edited by Psycho! at 01:45:58 03/Dec/05

HAHA NICE ONE

SELF INTEREST = MONEY

which police force do you work with hast

pyscho > commissioner atkinson (sp) ... (drunk so i dontk no w how the f*** to spleel it)


3 year old smelly lion s*** > hast... f*** up no one cares about your hippy, lets love eveeryone attitude..

haha lets love everyone attitude

more like f*** off and mind your own business attitude

Reverend Evil said: "MiNG, are you sure you belong on QGL? I've read every one of your posts and you reply like you belong at some wanky English private school. 8-) "

Hi Reverend

Your having spotted my "secret plan" to inflict by stealth an increased level of literacy upon QGL forum readers, I don't know whether I'm humbled, flattered or frightened that you read every one of my posts. A bit of all three I think. ;P ;P ;P

I don't feel uncomfortable here.....and I hope my "wanky English Private School" replies don't leave you feeling alienated either? :)

QGL forum's actually interesting for a couple of reasons. It's inspiring to observe some fundamental truths often unwittingly uttered from younger members because of their uncomromised directness. The lack of overly heavy handed moderation also allows quite a bit of levity as well as leeway in people feeling free to expres their at time less conventional views. Nothing to be frightened of there, just more intereting.

Probably feel an some affinity as Trog runs the board and I can identify with his approach and often align with his expressed views, whether here or on his own personal home page. He won't particularly remember me and that's good because I prefer anonymity and seek it where I can. We met years ago at friends LANS (never been to a QGL one) and occasionally on Quake servers online. Apart from being a top Quake player, more importantly his intelligence and attitude alsways made games with him a pleasure and a chalenge, the perfect combination. Observably, he runs his forums the same way. Guess that's why I drop in here from time to time.

cheers

MiNG

last edited by MiNG at 10:04:59 03/Dec/05

Hehe

Stalking trog from a far. Anyway, twasn't giving you s*** to be mean, just a funny observation.

Carry on.

8-)

Your intent was clearly enough expressed as being without offence and taken as such. :)

I'm happy enough being out of step if Thoreau reckons it's OK.

My verbose to many manner probably stems from having been afforded an appreciation from an early age at how the consequence of observing ettiquette can add the touch to life that sets us apart from primal man and animals. In so doing it makes a celebration of life generally rather than only special occasionally. Its observance affords a pleasurable journey every day for all rather than just those we choose to favour for a flattering moment because it somehow advantages us materially or personally.

As for the love of wordsmithing. Fortunate enough to be deprived of TV until I was 11 years of age in a world before computers, it was undoubtedly derived from reading and a love of the classics from an early age. There is a real and present danger in the current vogue of semi-literacy where people have become inarticulate. Discussion and appreciation of complex concepts by the incisive mind requires the ability to accurately and easily communicate with necessary precison. Similarly for expression of the critical thought with clarity. This becomes difficult bordering on impossible when that ability to accurately articulate ideas and concepts is absent.

If the average person today relegated the same importance, effort and attitude to SEX as they do to their literacy, anything other than having sex for procreation perhaps no more than 2 or 3 times in our entire lifetime would be deemed unnecessary for "effective" procreation, and the act itself would become a 30 second vulgarity akin to rape rather than the exquisite experience those who know the sensuousness of seduction can be.

you know, you could have just said:

you can't get laid reading books

MiNG = Tycho Brae smurfing?

Hi Psycho!

I don't know whether to blush with socially appropriate feigned modesty and embarrassment - or start running NOW with that target having just been pinned to my back. ;) ;) ;)

Nevertheless, thanks for the compliment.

Noting your "30 years" comment, it sounds as if we might be from and of a similar age? Though no longer in the job, I attended the Oxley College of Knowledge, entering it's gates 30 years ago for the first time almost to the month (this Nov past). Our experiences with our fellow man and particularly those involved with illicit drugs on any level undoubtely acounts for our shared empathies in that regard? I thought your comment about alcohol misuse particularly salient...though its impact remains unappreciated by most without the exposure to the wreckage it leaves in its wake you've had.

"This forum will never be the same. Intelligent debate has no place here don't you know."

There must be a beginning to everything. Though somehow I think outnumbered as we are, it won't exactly be hijacked from it's original erratic course.

MiNG = rehabilitised mental patient?

ok two things.

first

f*** up and die MiNG you pompous-assed cum recepticle.

second

just because you have 30 yrs exp. as a police officer doesnt give your comments any more relevance than anybody elses psycho.

I suppose cops dont really want reform in the 'war' on drugs because its just more lives saved and less jobs for the boys right?

Do you even know how much money the government spends on drug law enforcement?

Never mind the hospitals with no doctors, lets hang these pricks in the name of the state while the Mr Bigs sit back in their mansions counting their lewts huh?

Most professionals (eg doctors and lawyers) dont have such basic attitudes toward capital punishment. So thanks for nothing the two of you for injecting some 'wordsmithing' and intelligent 'literacy' into the forum.

ming types funny n that

That said, there doesn't seem to have been any sort of trial in front of a judge that I recall.

His trial was about 3 years ago.

he's no angel, even with the excuse of "needing money to pay off his brothers debts" you don't just easily find a drug "baron" (for lack of a better word) and offer your services as a courier, he must have been in these circles to begin with

Not true.

LOL

You can't just say "not true" and offer no follow up story.

Why do you have to assume he had to be in "circles" to begin with?

Drugs are everywhere (duh). You don't have to be in "circles" to get your hands on some. Like I said before, drugs make the world go round. And is becoming a part of life for many. For better or worse.
In Van's case, he could have been approached, as many others are. To transport "goods", for decent sums of money. Desperation cause man to do desperate things.

Should you condem someone for something they'eve done? Or should we judge them on the life they've lead? I thought as humans we make mistakes. Maybe not in the far distant future, this will be what draws the line between us, humans and machines (humanoid robots LOL).

But whatever, don't do drugs and stay in school kids.

well well well
just saw that his brother had done time for trafficing and agravated assault as well (with a samurai sword)

oh dear, well that's a shame.

So to summarise, you don't have to be, but in this case he was.

Maybe Van's brother will get himself killed next.

Being asian automatically makes you in the circle! :O

Maybe you should talk to him A_W. I hear he might have some work going.

but this guy in this country could have done it in less than 24 hrs

you don't really understand how a bank works do you? "offering up mothers house as collateral", chances are that mother doesn't own the house anyway. infact, the most expecive thing she would probably have is a tv antenna. also.. my mum WORKS in a bank, adn it took her 5 days to get a 7k loan. you simply can't get a 21k loan in 24 hours.

ming. shut up, your posts take far too long to comprehend (obviously not because of any poor mental function, but because to say 2 things he types 3 paragraphs)

actually, i would like to pick at it, so im going to quote you. (btw, to quote just type < quote > stuff i wanna quote < /quote > (without the spaces))

My verbose to many manner probably stems from having been afforded an appreciation from an early age at how the consequence of observing ettiquette can add the touch to life that sets us apart from primal man and animals. In so doing it makes a celebration of life generally rather than only special occasionally. Its observance affords a pleasurable journey every day for all rather than just those we choose to favour for a flattering moment because it somehow advantages us materially or personally.

basically "speaking like i have a english butler jammed up my arse makes me feel above lower people, everyones life is better because i talk like this, if only everone was as good as me and talked like this all the time instead of when they wanted something, then they would have a fulfilling life too"

first off. language, much like paintings, are simply cosmetic, it really is the meaning behind them that matters. and so how you say something doesn't make life any more happy for anyone else, its the meaning to what you say. i mean, all your doing is pushing up your self worth by "add the touch of life that sets us apart from primal man"

its just an aquired speech pattern, much like talking like a bogan is an aquired speech pattern.

secondly, this is an informal forum, who the f*** wants to speek like it matters simply to get a basic idea/oppinion across, i talk compleatly differently when im with my mates than to when im at work, if that is the way you feel comfortable in talking, then thats fine. just don't except the forum to change.

third

If the average person today relegated the same importance, effort and attitude to SEX as they do to their literacy, anything other than having sex for procreation perhaps no more than 2 or 3 times in our entire lifetime would be deemed unnecessary for "effective" procreation, and the act itself would become a 30 second vulgarity akin to rape rather than the exquisite experience those who know the sensuousness of seduction can be.

if we had the same importance on sex as to talking, we would f*** everybody all the time, and girls would be f***ing 24/7, and we would all be really good at it, (with so much practice) and our parents would be teaching it to us at a young age. and etc etc etc.

your speechcraft isn't a blessing apon the ears of your vapid listeners, it is a burdon apon the relaxed state of the work weary, apathetic and the relaxed mind. truly the singular entity that it does entrap and prevoke into thrilling entertainment is the singular entity that provides the creative linguistics.

so get over yourself.

oh, and i might as well keep it on topic, i don't agree with capital punishment simply because it would be similar to torture. being stuck in a cell, scared out of your wits, thinking "i only get to live for 4 more days", and watching thoes days go by, i think i would go mad. other than that though, its not barberic, we all die, and it will eventually happen, and you only exist during a "moment", everything else is a memory. and teh few moments before you die, will feel exactly the same as now (unless your in alot of pain, then your mind set would probably be more like "im ready to die now")

all of which is my oppinion and i don't base it on any facts, just personal experience and anicdotal evidence.

They could have just shot him right in the head when he was declared guilty. BAM! His suffering would have been over.

ive read most of the pages, but heres my say.

there are worse crimes than giving people what they want

SO true. So f***ing true. This 25 yr old young man tried to smuggle drugs, which is against the law. but is it right to kill him and end his existance because of it? f***off all you people who say one less drug smuggler = better world. You are all a bunch of sheltered dicks. Drugs will NOT stop, you CAN NOT stop the flow and those 25000 hits he didnt deliver to australia = higher price for hits for the junkie = more thefts so the addict can afford it. Its not like addicts go, oh s*** , this shipment didnt come in so i better give it up for a while, its a constant fiending by which the death of a young man fixes NOTHING.

f***ing barbaric primitive society. and no i do not agree with capital punishment anywhere (especially for drugs ffs!!!)

PEOPLE HAVE CHOICE. dont kill them for it.

PEOPLE HAVE CHOICE. dont kill them for it.

First of all, he had the choice not to smuggle drugs in a country that had the death penalty for drug smuggling.

Secondly, I'll worry about those people getting the death penalty when all the people that DON'T have a choice and are getting unjustly killed (eg, Iraqi civilians getting caught in the crossfire, people getting randomly murdered in back alleys, people getting injured by f***heads that throw things out of speeding cars, Australians getting blown up by terrorists, oh, the list goes on).

PEOPLE HAVE CHOICE. dont kill them for it.

except in few countries with long established death penalty regimes. You can't really blame them can you? how many asian people get death for the same crimes? It's not like it aint obvious. Most places including Aus ended death decades ago, some places like Sing still have death. He chose to smuggle into Sing.

Every choice has a benefit and a consequence. 1:1, black/white, ying/yang.

Unfortunatley for him, the consequence of his free choice gravely outweighed the benefit. Game over.

f***ing barbaric primitive society. and no i do not agree with capital punishment anywhere (especially for drugs ffs!!!)
PEOPLE HAVE CHOICE. dont kill them for it.

Translation: I want drugs, ffs, stop killing the people trying to bring them to me.

Personally, I think the guy is an idiot. Probably not enough of an idiot that he deserved to be hung, thats pretty harsh, but still an idiot for trying to traffic drugs in a country that has such harsh penalties for it in the first place.

oh the list goes on...
People getting stabbed in a mugging gone wrong so that the junkie can afford his next fix...

First of all, he had the choice not to smuggle drugs in a country that had the death penalty for drug smuggling.

Yep thats basically what it comes down to, you choose your fights in life and he chose one that was way over his head.
Raging at a government that isn't your own for barbarism is useless and you might as well aim all your hostility at a brick wall for a few hours because you will gain the same result.

Be smart and avoid consequences you don't want to put up with by a few minutes fore thought.
"Should I walk down the same side of the road as this rabid feral looking dog?, nah I don't feel like getting bitten."
Common sense seems to be a whole lot less common than it used to be.

As for the love of wordsmithing. Fortunate enough to be deprived of TV until I was 11 years of age in a world before computers, it was undoubtedly derived from reading and a love of the classics from an early age. There is a real and present danger in the current vogue of semi-literacy where people have become inarticulate. Discussion and appreciation of complex concepts by the incisive mind requires the ability to accurately and easily communicate with necessary precison. Similarly for expression of the critical thought with clarity. This becomes difficult bordering on impossible when that ability to accurately articulate ideas and concepts is absent.

I thought this comment was quite valid yet painfully hypocritical. It is possible to use an oversized portion of verbage to express a concept or an idea, but it reaches the point where going into too much detail has an adverse effect. If your language is too complex, your audience may not be able to understand and as a result you will be hindering your ability to convey your ideas to your audience.

Enjoying the classics is a good thing for anybody. As my grade 12 English teacher put it; "If you can understand Shakespeare, you can understand just about anything in English".

/derail

As for capital punishment, I'm totally against it. It would suck to get wrongfully imprisoned with a death sentence. I'm totally for corporal punishment though. Half the people I see out in public could benefit from a good beating.

I'm pretty sure Batman, or even Superman for that matter, would not have approved of this execution.

Batman might have, cos hes a badass and knows that drugs are bad mmmkay. Most likely though Superman would swoop in and stop the execution and bring Van Nguyen back to Metropolis to face charges there. He would then be found guilty and put into some brand new, high-tech inescapable prision, from which the inmates would invariably escape, and in the ensuing chaos Van would be doused in radioactive waste and gain super powers with which he could reap his bloody vengeance upon the world that was so ready and willing to put him to death.

Batman might have, cos hes a badass and knows that drugs are bad mmmkay. Most likely though Superman would swoop in and stop the execution and bring Van Nguyen back to Metropolis to face charges there. He would then be found guilty and put into some brand new, high-tech inescapable prision, from which the inmates would invariably escape, and in the ensuing chaos Van would be doused in radioactive waste and gain super powers with which he could reap his bloody vengeance upon the world that was so ready and willing to put him to death.

and by vengeance you mean deal more drugs?

Been reading a few too many comics today eh Khel??

Everyone has a choice.

The drug users choose to take the drugs.
The drug runners choose to traffic drugs.


Van chose to traffic heroin in a country which gave the death penalty for such a crime.

Van chose his destiny

Batman mightn't have approved but its in another country and so i dont think he cares about stuff outside of his jurisdiction

http://media.skateboard.com.au/forum/images/drrr.jpg

haha

that made me laugh but now i feel dirty :(

I don't believe in Capital Punishment because I don't believe one group of humans should be allowed to tell another group of humans how to live or have the right to kill them. Some of you seem to just assume the people in charge are always in the right. Some laws aren't worthy of obeying.

Regardless of whether their laws are worthy or not of being obeyed, they are in place for a reason.

batman would never approve of killing... a good friend known as rachel daws once taught bruce wayne, that justice is not about revenge, it is about peace. Thomas wayne would've been ashamed of him, for seeking revenge for his death... it's up to the good people of gotham to fight these injustices.

Bruce later learned, that after searching for the means to fight injustices from a rare blue flower. that its not who you are beneath, its what you do that defines you.

Then disobey them Idol and take the consequences, it's your choice.

I don't believe in Capital Punishment because I don't believe one group of humans should be allowed to tell another group of humans how to live or have the right to kill them.

So a serial child rapist/murderer has raped and brutally killed 14 children before he is finally caught. He has no regret for what he did, he enjoyed every minute of it. According to you, the government should pay for him to have a nice, private cell of his own, away from the other prisioners (who would probably kill him themselves), and be fed and kept for the remainder of his life at the taxpayers expense? f*** that, kill him I say, why does someone like that deserve to live out the rest of his life in relative comfort after doing what hes done?

Not to draw parallels between that and Van Nguyen or anything, just saying, Capital Punishment indeed has its place in society imo. Your view of the world seems to be very simplistic and idealistic, it doesn't take into account the monsters of the world who really do deserve nothing less than death.

I figure this is simple:

He knew the rules.
He knew the risk.
He was caught.
According to the rules, he was executed.
Case closed.


We must respect the laws of society, they are there because that is how the majority or at least, those in charge, think it is best for society to function. If we did not respect the laws, I'd remind you of the times centuries ago when bandits were able to murder entire villages without reprisal. We could go back to the 'every family for itself' way and live the spartan lifestyle. But I don't think you'd like it.

No picket fence for you without this society. As much as I think this society has it wrong, it's still a lot better than what it would be without the laws and everything in place. There's always room for improvement.

Case closed.

But everyone has the right to challenge a law they feel is unjust. Not questioning the laws we live by is as irresponsible as breaking them.

Hahaha @ that hangman pic.

That's great!

8-)

Not questioning the laws we live by is as irresponsible as breaking them.

Questioning and debating laws is vastly different from breaking them.

Not questioning the laws we live by is as irresponsible as breaking them.

Or don't live by as in this case.

Q: Whats the difference between Van Ngyuen's mum, and Ricky Ponting..?




























A: Van Ngyuen's mum will be bringing home the Ashes..

khel, i dont want drugs. i especially dont want heroin. Whoever thinks that the persons on here are expressing opinions to inhibit some kind of change in the foreign governments laws, are plain stupid. I dont believe under any circumstances that we should change their laws, but as far as I believe, capital punishment is, when you consider what it is, barbaric and wrong.

There are levels of human wrongdoings, murder and rape being the worst imo, with drugs at the lower end of the scale.

Anyone who thinks that just cause a law is in place that it is fair, is imo, wrong. Capital punishment involves destroying a life and giving it no chance for repentance.

Khel, you appeared to have a clue since when i first started at qgl. However, this thread proves your inexperience in these areas loud and clear.

In any case, has anyone here ever done something and ignored the logic of its consequences? EX: Smoking. Every draw = closer to death, but you can CHOOSE to quit.
Vans choice, although incredibly stupid, did not warrent the end of his life. People who take heroin dont need to overdose, and they will sure as hell always be getting a hit regardless of whether the flow is dinted by 500g or not.

ps: astroboy, that joke lacks any substance. lame, very lame.

its been said before, but the hypocrisy of state murder is what irks me the most. who has the god given right of taking someones life, especially when we have strict laws against that.

Throwing somebody in jail for 30-60 years is basically the same as taking their life.
They will not be able to do all the things everyone takes for granted as what "makes up life" and will likely be just as stuffed when they are released since they will have nothing to show for all those years of life.
Ignoring that they might develop serious mental issues from all the nasty stuff that can happen in jail they will come out with no direction or purpose and as old men or women who can't really adjust and begin a new life.

This brings me to my question then, What do you think should be done with people who rape and murder other people if you believe no one has the right to take away another persons life?

Slap them on the wrist with a very short sentence and put them back out there?
Put them through some kind of therapy to stop their anti-social behaviours? (Which if we look at serial rapists, kiddy fidlers and murderers doesn't work)
Let them run around doing whatever they want?

These systems are in place because the people want to feel safe and to see justice done when somebody takes it onto themselves to infringe on their rights to safety.

If a majority of a populace doesn't agree with a law it won't last very long much like with prohibition and it's subsequent reversal in USA in the 1930's.
You will also note Australia did away with the death sentence because we found it not to be palatable anymore but we have not done away with long term imprisonment for repeat offenders.

Singaporians obviously still do think that the death penalty 'is' warranted for drug traffickers who cross their borders either way.
The media of both australia and the USA that I saw tried to get some kind of sob story from the singaporian people to back up our stance on it's 'Barbarism' but found a majority of the people felt justice had been done.

Being idealistic is good and shows to some degree a mental enlightenment to the betterment of mankind but don't be fooled that since you wish no harm on others that others will in turn follow your thinking.

Questioning and debating laws is vastly different from breaking them.

For an individual, I agree. I was talking more as a society.

2 words.

solitary confinement.

the humane way to deal with someone that is not fit to live in society, or with others (be they other prisoners). you may argue it costs so much ya da da, but i think its worth it.

thedeath penalty for drug trafficking is a case of 'make the punishment so harsh, they wont do the crime'

this is a direct reaction to the pressure the western countries put on the east asian countries to limit drug trafficking. hell, some states in america had life imprisonment for possession of pot for a while.

it doesnt work.

China even goes as far as to give the death penalty for certain white collar crimes such as fraud.

I think the US has the best (read: not ideal) system compared to other countries - death penalty for murder only, and a long appeals process.

I agree with Tung, he is a wise black man.

it doesnt work.

I don't think this can be proven; there's no figures on how many people decided NOT to smuggle drugs in Asia because of the death penalty. I know there are a lot of stupid-ass people out there that still do it, but I'm sure there's at least a few remotely smart people that assess the risk and decide not to do it.

singaporeans are for the death penalty for people who smuggle drugs into, or through, their country

it sucks, but it is their country

also, there's no bumsex over there

in theory if enough people wanted the laws changed, it is a democracy and they will elect people in favour of changing those laws - in practice democracy in singapore is a joke and in the conformist mindset it's probably considered virtually treasonous to vote for the opposition

Khel, you appeared to have a clue since when i first started at qgl. However, this thread proves your inexperience in these areas loud and clear.

I never said the death penalty was fair in this instance, it seems pretty harsh in this instance, but I was just saying the whole "Capital punishment is bad no matter what" approach fails to factor in the inhuman monsters who deserve no less than being put to death. I agree it shouldn't be given out lightly, but theres instances where its more than warranted imo.

solitary confinement. the humane way to deal with someone that is not fit to live in society, or with others (be they other prisoners). you may argue it costs so much ya da da, but i think its worth it.

Thats a weird definition of humane you have there. Locking someone in a small cell, with no contact with other people for the rest of their natural lives is humane? Sounds more like a form of torture to me. Surely it would be more humane to kill them quickly and painlessly, rather than leave them to go even more insane locked in solitary confinement for the rest of their lives. And who's going to pay the cost of keeping all these murderers and such other dregs of society in their solitary confinement? Why should society foot the bill for looking after people like that? You talk of the hypocrisy of capital punishment, yet you're all for spending large sums of money housing serial rapists and murderers, while honest, decent folk live homeless on the streets?

And think about the families of those who these people have affected. How would you feel if a man murdered your brother, and then got to live out the rest of his life in solitary confinement, bought and paid for with your very own tax dollars. Sure, its oldschool biblical "eye for an eye" type justice, but wouldn't the families feel so much better, wouldn't they have closure if they knew the man or woman who'd committed the atrocities had paid for his or her crimes and was put to death? Wouldn't that be some small comfort?

last edited by Khel at 02:52:38 05/Dec/05

But everyone has the right to challenge a law they feel is unjust.

But the problem is it isnt our law and no amount of bitching and complaining is gonna change that fact! Get over it.

Actually there have been studies done that claim that something like every execution for 1st degree murder in the US prevents a few more from happening. Of course its all based on estimates and whatnot, but I can maybe dig them up if you want to see them, had to read about them at uni. Harsher penalties do reduce premeditated crime imo.

Either way the debate about whether death penalty is right or wrong is irrelevent because it's neither. It could be right to you and wrong to somebody else. To assume that your beliefs are superior to someone else's is disgustingly arrogant and wrong. They think the death penalty is right and who the f*** are we to question it. my 2c.

I have this great idea!

What we should do, is round up all the people that commit crimes and whatnot, put them all in a few boats and send em off to a far away island.

Too easy, its probably been done before tho.

G'day?

I thought the idea of prison was to reform the inmate into becoming a better person (or atleast try to anyway).

Not to just lock them up and forget about it. Kinda like time out :)

Play nice or you go sit in the corner with that big black kid named Buba.

People change over time and 20-30years in jail is a long f***en time.

Is he dead yet?

http://www.youstupidprick.com/articles/vannguyen.php

'nuff said.

Good article.

its satire

I thought the idea of prison was to reform the inmate into becoming a better person (or atleast try to anyway).

Punishment has several functions, e.g.:

- retribution
- remove dangerous people from society
- deterrent
- rehabilitation

Note that rehabilitation is only one of them. Sentencing of an offender needs to take several factors into account. Whilst the death penalty doesn't reform the prisoner, and might not even be an effective deterrent, it's certainly an effective form of payback.

who?

This arsehole makes me sick.

f***ing dirty c***

Linky

They hung the wrong f***ing brother and I think it is disgusting that the judge felt sorry for him.

- Buthered someone fair while back.
- Indirectly killed own brother.

It just get's better and better doesn't it? Family should disown him ffs.

those guys' mother really did a bang up job raising her kids

one executed drug courier and one jailbound katana slashing d******* (actually why isn't he on remand? attempted murder isn't enough to lock some guy up before trial?)

People change over time and 20-30years in jail is a long f***en time.

Yeah, some people may reform, but generally they aren't the ones you'd be putting to death anyway. Its the sociopathic psychos who dont actually regret anything they did and dont actually see whats wrong with what they did that you put to death. How can someone reform if they don't even see a problem with their actions, let alone feel sorry for them?