I heard about this on JJJ after watching that show on Sunday on channel 7.

This website is the scariest f***ing thing I think I've ever read. Its really hard (and I'm trying REALLY HARD) to find a flaw in the logic and reasoning.

Basically, we're all f***ed.

:(

you only realise this now?

Sorta like this


XD

Cool, my very own "old" thread.

I shall call him George.

Did John Titor predict this happening?

Well, that's why we carefully voted for the governments that we think are going to take the best care of us in crisis situations. Well, Australia did; I guess its obvious that the US didn't.

... I assume we all did, right?

Did John Titor predict this happening?

Yes, he did as a matter of fact. He predicted a civil war and return to agrarian culture for the US. It is quite possible that the civil war may be started over scarce natural resources.

<3 John Titor.

Just another reason why im converting my car to LPG in 4 weeks...

I bought a horse yesterday and will ride my horse everywhere!

I have a bicycle, may just have to oil that chain, pump up the flat tyre and put the seat back on.

Anyone watch that Oil Storm movie/fictional documentary on the TV on sunday? Was rather interesting!

It is inevitable we will reach peak, What worries me is there is no alternative to sweet crude. Tyres are made out of oil, as are all the manufacturing plants, nuclear power plants, ect ect ect.
Even if you found alternative fuel for a car, you got no tyres and no plastics.

That was so amazing and interesting, thank you for sharing. The possibilities are mind blowing and all rather dire.

The world could be a very different and disturbing place in 10 years.

Its times like these we think of poor Kevin Costner, The Postman. :S

How about you all trade in your cars for bikes then?

Where does the buck stop?

this was predicted in the bible, and is further proof that christianity is the only science, and has more place in the classrooms of our schools than silly money-making and ego-bolstering ideas such as evolution

What we need is some dark matter

That 'debate' is in another thread Jim. Don't hi-jack this one.

OT: Watch the the big oil companies uses this as another conveniant excuse to price gouge and profiteer to large levels like they are doing right now.

The cost of oil has fallen for the last 6 days (not counting today) in a row, yet prices keep going up? we are over $1.40 now? Also might i remind you all that the current petrol in the ground under most servo's in Aus was made BEFORE hurricane K hit the gulf coast by the US. Further proof the lurdicrisly greedy oil companies are just using the misery of the N.O people as a cheap cover for thier price hiking actions.

The cost of oil has fallen for the last 6 days (not counting today) in a row, yet prices keep going up? we are over $1.40 now? Also might i remind you all that the current petrol in the ground under most servo's in Aus was made BEFORE hurricane K hit the gulf coast by the US. Further proof the lurdicrisly greedy oil companies are just using the misery of the N.O people as a cheap cover for thier price hiking actions.

Someone who actually knows what they are talking about correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that the petrol was the property of the supplier (Shell or some s***) until it was sodl to the consumer - its sold on consignment which is why its subject to daily price change as the supplier sets its rate per litre?

We would all be flying clean anti-grav scooters powered by cold fusion reactors if religion didn't keep suppressing & censoring information. I wish they'd stop thumping that crazy old book & evolve! Positively, with the addition of external information.

The cost of oil has fallen for the last 6 days (not counting today) in a row, yet prices keep going up? we are over $1.40 now? Also might i remind you all that the current petrol in the ground under most servo's in Aus was made BEFORE hurricane K hit the gulf coast by the US. Further proof the lurdicrisly greedy oil companies are just using the misery of the N.O people as a cheap cover for thier price hiking actions.

Based on what korbs was saying the other day, which I also saw on the news that very night, the refineries are charging like 1000% more than they used to to refine a barrel of oil into petrol.

i want to see lots of money put into R&D of thermal depolymerization.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization

very good concept, now it just needs funding.

ey Jim, stop preaching. he should be banned for posting that s***. This is why i stayed out of the "religion" threads. You do not want to here my opinion, trust me.

Although, there are plenty of viable energy alternatives to Oil, there effectiveness will only be revealed through trial I guess. The website has a point although i think it is a bit extreme. It sounds like its based on alot of estimates and to many "maybes". Academic cred is good and all, but its still an estimate. It reminds me of the whole "where going to run out of oil in 1985", they were saying that in the 70's. I will remain sceptical.

Well ok then ... they see the problem ahead of them in the U.S and im sure most other countries do as well.
It's time to pull their collective finger out and do something about it.
Im sure with the world pumping 80 million barrels of crude out of the earth every single day they should have sufficient power left to set up the infrasructure for the future powered by such things as fusion, geo-thermal, tidal, solar, wind and many others.
Research into creating nearly everything made by oil has been underway for years.
If they act soon they can set up dedicated public and industrial transport run by these alternative power sources.

The main problem is that humans like to procrastinate when they are in their comfort zone and I doubt anything will be done in time to avert a massive power/food shortage and many, many people will die because of it.
Good luck everyone ... go buy your guns now while they are still cheap and plentiful, your gonna need em.

P.S I dont drive and have used public transport for years now, it's inconvenient, tiresome and slow but unless something changes soon you all better get used to using it as well unless you like paying $5 a litre for fuel.

last edited by Xy at 14:01:23 15/Sep/05

the world isnt about to run out of oil. its just market speculation, oil companies are unsure about iraq, hurricane katrina just happend. its not like there is an actual shortage of oil to be consumed, i dont see 1 airport which has run out of jet fuel, or one petrol bowser anywhere that has run out of fuel. the same thing happend back in the 70s. things will settle down and this will happen again in the future.

Based on what korbs was saying the other day, which I also saw on the news that very night, the refineries are charging like 1000% more than they used to to refine a barrel of oil into petrol.

that is because no one is building new refineries. capacity is short so they can charge what they want.

i always thought that is someone had a spare $500million if they wanted to build their own refinery they would make a killing selling refined petrol etc to independent stations.

A fair chunk of what was said on the peak oil site is mis-leading.

References to the amount of fossil fuels required to create various manufactured goods for instance.

Fossil fuels != oil.

We've got hundreds of years of coal left. There won't be black outs because of a lack of oil.

Late night drift sessions with the s1 boys however will be a thing of the past.

On 5th gear the other night they had this electric car that does 0-100 in 4 seconds and only has one gear. It'd be wack to drive because it makes pretty much no noise, but goes fkn quick. Sifn't ultra solar panel farms in the desert and everyone driving ultra electric cars. w00t

haha fire up tiny

demon: religion ate my baby

/Puts on foil hat

This is why military's are great. once the oil runs out etc, they will come up with something. you think that the leaders of nations are going to let there armys become weak. some of the greatest inventions have come from the military. there are some good things about war, i guess.

/takes of foil hat

some of the greatest inventions have come from the military

Like Jew ovens?

Or atleast use the military to invade other countries for the oil while government R&D work on alternative energy sources. Countries in the middle east perhaps.

Time to make myself a tin foil hat.

A_W - Petrol is used up pretty much straight away as soon as it is refined. However I think that Australia's prices are about a week behind the rest of the world- so when you here about somethng that is going to effect the price petrol, fill up straight away.

Infi - That crazy Richard Branson is hoping to build an oil refinery.

Late night drift sessions with the s1 boys however will be a thing of the past.

you could always convert those cars to steam power

Having been given some time to think about it, I don't think that its gonna be th eend of the world overnight from Peak Oil.

We're going to have to adjust as pteroleum becomes steadily more expensive, personal motor vehicles powered by the stuff will be among the first to go form it.

We're just extremely excessive in our use of the good ole black stuff. We import food form the other side of the world because its cheaper than to grow it locally. Peak Oil will be a huge boost for domestic manufacturing and agriculture.

No peak oil discussion is complete without a reference to Julian Simon and his wager with Paul Ehrlich.

"The face-off occurred in the pages of Social Science Quarterly, where Simon challenged Ehrlich to put his money where his mouth was. In response to Ehrlich's published claim that "If I were a gambler, I would take even money that England will not exist in the year 2000" - a proposition Simon regarded as too silly to bother with - Simon countered with "a public offer to stake US$10,000 ... on my belief that the cost of non-government-controlled raw materials (including grain and oil) will not rise in the long run.

You could name your own terms: select any raw material you wanted - copper, tin, whatever - and select any date in the future, "any date more than a year away," and Simon would bet that the commodity's price on that date would be lower than what it was at the time of the wager." ... Ehrlich and his colleagues picked five metals that they thought would undergo big price rises: chromium, copper, nickel, tin, and tungsten. Then, on paper, they bought $200 worth of each, for a total bet of $1,000, using the prices on September 29, 1980, as an index. They designated September 29, 1990, 10 years hence, as the payoff date. If the inflation-adjusted prices of the various metals rose in the interim, Simon would pay Ehrlich the combined difference; if the prices fell, Ehrlich et alia would pay Simon. ... Between 1980 and 1990, the world's population grew by more than 800 million, the largest increase in one decade in all of history. But by September 1990, without a single exception, the price of each of Ehrlich's selected metals had fallen, and in some cases had dropped through the floor. Chrome, which had sold for $3.90 a pound in 1980, was down to $3.70 in 1990. Tin, which was $8.72 a pound in 1980, was down to $3.88 a decade later. [1]

"[Simon] always found it somewhat peculiar that neither the Science piece nor his public wager with Ehrlich nor anything else that he did, said, or wrote seemed to make much of a dent on the world at large. For some reason he could never comprehend, people were inclined to believe the very worst about anything and everything; they were immune to contrary evidence just as if they'd been medically vaccinated against the force of fact. Furthermore, there seemed to be a bizarre reverse-Cassandra effect operating in the universe: whereas the mythical Cassandra spoke the awful truth and was not believed, these days "experts" spoke awful falsehoods, and they were believed. Repeatedly being wrong actually seemed to be an advantage, conferring some sort of puzzling magic glow upon the speaker.

We're going to have to adjust as pteroleum becomes steadily more expensive, personal motor vehicles powered by the stuff will be among the first to go form it.

We're already seeing some (good) changes - people are being more careful, thinking more carefully about buying new cars, doing LPG conversions, etc. I hope petrol keeps going up for a while to try and keep this thing going to try to drive alternative energy sources a bit harder.

I'd like to see the government offering better incentives for people to switch to hybrid/LPG and offering tax breaks to (viable) alternative energy companies.

Can someone confirm that if we put enough solar panels up over 1% of earth, that would generate enough power every 24hours to run the entire planet?

Obviously these statistics would change, but im pretty sure I read that somewhere.

trog: that'd rock, but I think the government is too busy milking tax money from fossil fuels. it's the only explanation I can see for them not funding the growth of bio-diesel production

Yes...I can confirm that this is true

Your mum has aids, and will die tomorrow.

Obes gave them to her.

well,that was f***ing depressing :( Thanks for ruining my afternoon, hogfather

thanks for the link, i'll definately be doing some more reading on the subject in the next few days.

Late night drift sessions with the s1 boys however will be a thing of the past.

heathen!

LPG might not be as potent as BP Ultimate, but put it through a twin turbo six and something cool is bound to happen...

We're already seeing some (good) changes - people are being more careful, thinking more carefully about buying new cars, doing LPG conversions, etc. I hope petrol keeps going up for a while to try and keep this thing going to try to drive alternative energy sources a bit harder.

You think the price of oil drives the need for an alternative power source in the near future?
I can't see that being likely.

Even though crude oil prices have decreased, we are still paying inflated prices for unleaded fuel. I have attributed this to recent maintanence at caltex refineries, the one at lytton south of brisbane was closed for 55 days!

Aug. 31 (Bloomberg) -- Caltex Australia Ltd., the nation's biggest oil refiner, said labor unions representing workers at its Queensland refinery advised of their intention to reduce fuel production at the plant starting Sept. 2.

..

``As a precautionary step, Caltex today limited fuel lifting at its Lytton distribution terminal to no more than 100 percent of wholesale purchasers' normal liftings,'' Caltex said in the statement.

here
and again

Rather than flood the market with fuel, they are limiting output, citing safety as the reason. Hence the lack of cheap prices. And so soon after the katrina disaster (1 day) What timing!

That website is rather alarmist to be honest, having ploughed through it again waiting for 5pm to rock around. Yes, from 2010 to 2050 oil will rapidly become more expensive, and the current market demands more oil than we have.

However, market forces, industrialism and capitalism also dictate that alternatives and lowered oil-component commodities will become more and more cheap.

Take Cairns for ewxample, where local growers through Rusty's markets on Sunday morning and finding a thriving mini-economy in fresh produce right here. Because they don;t transport their good scross the globe, and rather across town, the proces are cheap, and the food is excellent.

We'll just need to slow down and realise we no longer live in an oil rich world. Really, for Australia to be importing oranges from Iraq because they;re cheap is pretty stupid, a facet of the economy that is entirely reliant on the fact that oil is relatively cheap.

I'm still thinking about getting me some guns though.

You think the price of oil drives the need for an alternative power source in the near future?
I can't see that being likely.

Not directly, but I can see the esheer expense of importing goods and moving them around the globe changing the world economy. Like all big economic changes, there will be winners and losers. Local production will be a winner, and the big loser will be transport industries.

trog: that'd rock, but I think the government is too busy milking tax money from fossil fuels. it's the only explanation I can see for them not funding the growth of bio-diesel production

Or maybe because it makes more economic sense to use land for growing food than it does for growing fuel. Hell, it seems that bio-diesel can't even compete with normal fuel when normal fuel has massive taxes.

trog: that'd rock, but I think the government is too busy milking tax money from fossil fuels. it's the only explanation I can see for them not funding the growth of bio-diesel production

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos

Or maybe because it makes more economic sense to use land for growing food than it does for growing fuel. Hell, it seems that bio-diesel can't even compete with normal fuel when normal fuel has massive taxes.

If there's one thing we're short of in this country, its land!

You think the price of oil drives the need for an alternative power source in the near future?
I can't see that being likely.

... well, yeh, because it is already (record number of LPG conversions, for example)

last edited by trog at 17:09:46 15/Sep/05

well (going by the article) the price indicates the quantity so its all related. the higher the price gets the more desperately people will search for an alternative, especially if human life rests in the balance! nothing more dangerous than a cornered human =/

i once heard that if the entire would used nautral resources at the same rate that america did, the planet would have exploded/extinguished itself long ago



And its crazy half cocked alarmist theories like that mean oil companies can charge 1000% more it will be ok with everyone, cos you know, its a natural progression toward Earths imminent doom.

last edited by maxe at 17:11:28 15/Sep/05

If there's one thing we're short of in this country, its land!

land you can grow crops on and the resources required to grow those crops

water, fertilizers (that are oil based), etc

also LPG is only cheaper because of tax considerations. which is why the government doesn't run LPG cars.

last edited by hast at 17:32:57 15/Sep/05

Regarding solar power, that's all well and good but solar panels take about 5-7 years to 'repay' the energy needed to manufacture them in the first place so they aren't really a solution to our problems.

also LPG is only cheaper because of tax considerations

which are soon going to be changed/removed

yup the proposed changes make a lot of sense. if the excise is charged to pay for roads then all fuel should be taxed based on energy content. too bad it looks like the goverment caved into the LPG lobby.

not a good read esp if you're already in a pessimistic mood.

Or maybe because it makes more economic sense to use land for growing food than it does for growing fuel.

I don't think anyone ever suggested that biodiesel crops replace food crops. It certainly wouldn't be necessary to do that. Farmers that grow their own plants for the biodiesel that runs their own machinery certainly don't.

Hell, it seems that bio-diesel can't even compete with normal fuel when normal fuel has massive taxes.

bio-diesel being sold at fuel statiions in australia attracts roughly the same tax and sells for around the same price as petro-diesel. I think the problem is that the tax component is far more obvious to the consumer when it's production isn't reliant on oil, so it's not going to be as easy for the government to slaw consumers with it. Regardless, Europe and even the US are managing fine with scaling up it's production.

posting in a peak oil thread

yer. bio-diesel has the same excise as normal diesel but the govt subsidises bio-diesel at a rate that makes the excise cost effectively zero under the cleaner fuel grants scheme.

The Sustainable Transport Coalition of Western Australia suggested that if we convert all our wheat into fuel we would have no bread and only meet 5% of our current fuel needs.

wheat?
I don't see wheat in thislist

o I am sorry your little list dosent have it on it

dosen't Canola oil come from wheat?

ill be stoked if theres oil until im over my current car

then we can all go without, once im done;

^^

at least buy something interesting first, to give everyone else a chance

I wonder what it will be like without food water and electricity...

and booze

and booze

Humans have this inant uncanny abilty to create booze wherever they reside. Somewhere, somehow, we will have our booze.

Also that article mentioned that Natural Gas reaches Peak about 10 years after Oil. However if that article is correct then we will probably never see natural gas reach peak as the 1st n 2nd world countries will crumble into themselves. That is if the 1st world countries dont blow it all up first.

I spose if it is all somewhat true, the Meak will really inherit the earth. hah

o I am sorry your little list dosent have it on it

how come you're sorry? that seems like a weird response.

it looked like you were trying to suggest that even if everyone did decide to give biodiesel a go, and even if they ceased making the usual wheat products and use all our wheat yield it would only supply 5% of our fuel needs. If so, does that mean 5% of our diesel fuel needs, or 'all of our fuel needs' for non-diesel motor vehicles as well? Anyway, the reason I gave you that link was because it doesn't even appear that wheat is a usual candidate for use in production of biodiesel, so the stats you quoted seem kind of silly given the context.

dosen't Canola oil come from wheat?

no, it's short for 'canadian oil' - it's genetically engineered rapeseed, which is actually another whole eye-opening story on it's own. try this: http://web.ask.com/web?q=where+does+canola+come+from&qsrc=0&o=0

In the meantime the high price of petrol will f*** our economy royally up the ar$e.

Im already seeing Large 4wds and gas guzzling bogan chariots lining our streets with 'FOR SALE' signs on them.

I think if we all survive the imminent energy crisis our grandkids will be looking at V8 commodore wagons in glass cases at the Museum alongside the Muttabuttasaurus.

Jim:

I don't have access to the original statement. But maybe it meant: if we convert all the land that is currently growing wheat to the highest yield bio-fuel crops then we would only be able to satisfy 5% of the fuel requirements that have been traditionally met by petroleum/diesel/lpg/etc.

not if they can extract shael oil cheaply

I've uploaded a very interesting track (mp3) regarding the state of known oil deposits, and the state of untapped deposits - both known and unknown.

3.4mb - worth a listen.

And just wowzerz on the whole situation. Serious likelihood of me wanting to have a kid at some stage just dropped bigtime after reading this s***.

last edited by bargain at 03:05:55 16/Sep/05

last edited by bargain at 03:06:39 16/Sep/05

opec, that sure is an interesting link.

anyone wanna come drifting tonight?

Nahh too busy learning how to survive without oil :p

and booze

/Me hugs my still

yup the proposed changes make a lot of sense. if the excise is charged to pay for roads then all fuel should be taxed based on energy content. too bad it looks like the goverment caved into the LPG lobby.

didnt the government invade east timor to get the extra LPG or have i missed something?

Yes we invaded east timor for LPG and not to save people from being murdered horribly and bulldozed into mass graves. *Rolls Eyes*

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/483/fuelsignphoto17lx.jpg

a friend of mine produces biodiesel at his place for his turbo diesel patrol.

based on the production methods he uses (which are common), the chemicals for titration, pH monitoring and filtering of the final product he estimates that with the 38 cent federal excise on fuels, it would sell at the pump for about 70 cents per litre before oil/transport companies put in their 14 odd cent margin.

so 84 cents base price (rough figure) for a renewable and eventually plentiful fuel, which when burned in a diesel engine produces up to 75-90% less toxic/filthy emissions than petro-diesel does.

no vehicle modifcations are nessacary to convert to BD. however due to the solvent properties of BD it cleans out the crap in the fuel tank and fuel lines blocking the filter. so changing the filter often is really the only mod to the vehicle.

suddenly BD seems an attractive alternative to normal petrol and lpg. lpg is not going to stay just under 50 cents forever.

i'm currently getting together the gear to produce the stuff myself. gonna buy a phat fourby. :)

http://www.abc.net.au/rural/content/2005/s1373256.htm

the thing with bio diesel and s*** is that you have to declare how much you make so the goverment can rape you in taxes.

yeah I find it pretty ridiculous that even fuel you make for your own personal use is subject to the tax as well

the air car mofo's!

www.theaircar.com

Little Johnny and Costello cant tax air!

Although i dont think maxe will be able to drift in one.

thats retarded

i'd rather drive a falcon

^ ha ha

When the petrol has run out and your falcoon is rusting I'll be crusin in meh air car, saving the planet and pickin up hoes..

hhahah when the oils runs out u better get the hang of rubbin two sticks together cause there is nothing to replace that amount of energy yet or any likely too

word from my mate is, the bill for the excise/laws on BD has passed - hence a mention about it on the ATO page, but they have not enacted the legislation because of the extreme lack of people doing it.

people liken it to brewing beer at home. then you get the guys with a still at their houses cooking up their own spirits, the argument from the BD group is, tax us, tax the home brew boozers.

anyway, at this stage the only way the feds can make a quid out of it is to up the tax on the chemicals to make the stuff - but that will annoy the other groups that use the chems. one of the reagents to use is methanol, the drag racing boys would love that for example... ethanol is another, but that would s*** the state governments plan for 10% ethanol in juice. isopropanol is another, but the health sector would scream and shout coz that is a widely used disinfectant in hospitals.

anyway you look at it, its safe for the moment.

http://www.wolfatthedoor.org.uk/

DecayingCorpse, where do you find out info on how to make it(BD) etc?

type making biodiesel into google

I use a perpetual motion machine and bottle my farts.

for a complete guide to everything concerning biodiesel:

http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html

it may seem pretty complicated because they go into every possible way and method to make the stuff, but the way my mate does it, its very simple.

yeah but BD still produces toxic gases still not a viable option really . big deal about the cost of fuel .

is this a piece of your brain? .

I think we are all screwed...

our way of life is screwed for sure when the oil runs out.
the logicistics of the situation seem to evade people.
easy to pump stored energy out of the ground.

That air-car sure is cool sLaps, awesome for urban use.

That air-car sure is cool sLaps, awesome for urban use.

Pitty the manufacturing of it costs a butt-load in oil..

So does your TV, and your Computer, and your mobile phone, and your fridge, and your DVD player and your DVD's and your ...

Then just for extra kicks, factor in how much water it takes to make all those things. So if the oil dosnt screw us, lack of water will. Ha! we lose no matter what we do. O well, we were warned.

i think it'll be cool without electricity. more dark alleys for deviants LOL

yeah but BD still produces toxic gases still not a viable option really . big deal about the cost of fuel .

This is a common misconception. If we grow stuff to burn, that's reasonably OK (possible pillaging of the land used aside). Why? Because to grow the stuff we burned, we had to drag C02 out of the atmosphere. Cosmic balance is maintained, circle of life and all that s***.

The problem with fossil fuels is that the biosphere we curently live in - and that all life on the planet has adjusted to - is a system with a given amount of carbon in it. What happens when we dig up ages-old oil is that we add carbon to the system, which ends up as extra C02 in the atmosphere. This is widely believed to cause the global warming trend, and is certainly responsible for country-sized algal blooms.

Also, that 5% figure is pretty misleading. Yes, for today's needs, that amount of biodiesel production would barely make a dent in our demands for diesel. However, we are like a really fat kid sucking at the tit of almost unlimited oil - we need ot be weaned as a culture, the amount we "need" now HAS to change and be reduced. The amount of work we do for our energy will have to increase. We will need to be smarter, and use less energy, into this century.

We'll scream for our bottle like a wailing infant, but we do need to change.

i think it'll be cool without electricity. more dark alleys for deviants LOL

And NINJAS!

The real problem will be air travel. Reason being that technology for alternate forms of road travel already exists (aircar, solar, hydrogen fuel cell).

But its hard to run a 737 airbus on this sort of low energy technology.

Looks like travel by ocean will take over as the main form of international travel.

Dont your solar panels, hydrogen fuel cells and aircars need oil to be produced at the factory?

With the current industrial setup yes.
Unfortunately TollazOr's thinking seems to permeate our society: now now now now NOW!!!
Think ahead, plan ahead.
The only reason it takes oil to do these things "now" is because our industrial base is set up to use oil to produce these things.
If we phase out the current method and introduce non oil using technology to our infrastructure it all changes, but it will take time.

If we phase out the current method and introduce non oil using technology to our infrastructure it all changes, but it will take time.

Exactly, glad your thinking along the same lines as me now ;)

"
This is a common misconception. If we grow stuff to burn, that's reasonably OK (possible pillaging of the land used aside). Why? Because to grow the stuff we burned, we had to drag C02 out of the atmosphere. Cosmic balance is maintained, circle of life and all that s***. "

carbon monoxide
unburned hydrocarbons
sulfates
nitrogen oxides
etc

more than just co2 emissions

still less than petro diesel

Significantly less, and combined with a market-forced reduction in net energy use would see emissions plummet.

We're obviously going to have to go back to mass slave labour. No other way to get anything made cheap.

We're obviously going to have to go back to mass slave labour.

I know this is kinda off topic... I've always admired the educational factor in Age of Empires games. But has anybody noticed the lack of black slaves in the Age of Empres III demo? Particularly on the plantations.

Thats why we invaded iraq, to capture us some slaves.

pfft, doesn't matter at all... the world & everything in the solar system will be destroyed by a chaos cloud on June the 1st, 2014. nps. :D

sounds like a conspiracy to cover up the coming of jesus to me. repent now and even though you are an infidel, you might earn the graciousness of god

AHAHHAHAHA!! best laugh i've had in ages demon :D

Also Jim's continual sarcastic religios remarks still bring a smile to my day.

hrmm let me think... OK!

* demon repents, sloshs some holy water across his chops n waits impatiently for the graciousness!

but wait.. if jesus created a chaos cloud so corrosive that it would even disolve him, could he like lift it above his head & hold it there for say... 3 seconds!?

Another idea for conserving fuel

demon: I've created some pretty corrosive clouds in my time, they tend to float about head height fine on their own

Thx for the link Opec. That's a really interesting read. And sounds greatly promising. Hope that guy makes billions of personal dollars. :)

Abiotic origin of oil.

Well that's bloody interesting. Peak Oil Theory rests on the premise that oil is a non-renewable resource.

What if that's not true?!

Peak Oil Theory rests on the premise that oil is a non-renewable resource.

Actually it rests on the premise that oil demand will far outsrip oil production. It argues that even if abiotic origin of oil is somewhat true, it isnt fast enough to satiate our thirst for black gold.

Good point toll.

If we are somehow sitting on an almost inexhaustible supply deep underground, literally seas of oil, then our existing oil discovery methodology is flawed, and we're only screatching the surface. We haven't done much investigation into deep drilling for oil because there's been enough conveniently close to the surface.

Deep drilling would probably increase the costs of drawing up oil, but if we're sitting on a motherload then we may be able to in some way meet demand.

And in doing so destroy the environment.

We're just fubar in general as a society I guess heh.

Australia’s celebrity scientist "Dr Karl" says peak oil is here, on our very cool national youth radio station, JJJ

http://abc.net.au/triplej/hack/podcast/audio/peak_oil.mp3

This podcast radio interview is a great introduction to peak oil from a very cool station.

Steve Cannane interviews James Howard Kunstler, author of "The Long Emergency: Surviving the End of the Oil Age, Climate Change, and Other Converging Catastrophes of the Twenty-first Century". Also present were Sonia Shah, Dr Karl, and Andrew McNamara — a Queensland Labor party member concerned about peak oil.

14mb worth a listen


last edited by Denominator at 14:29:40 21/Sep/05

Yeh Dominator, that's the interview that I wa stalking about in the start of the thread.

Well worth a listen.

Wierdest thing happened when I was at the servo, I arrived the price was at 123.09 Then within half an hour (was cleaning car), the price went to 121.9, then to 117.9, all in half an hour. Makes you wonder how much the price of barrels really has to do with it, when the Servo companys keep mucking around with the price all the time.

from what i understand the price per litre works on the storage tanks at the station
1st 80% of tank sold at a high price to cover costs then it gets cheaper from then on .
80% is just a quess