i was listening to a talk radio station the other day, and someone in
California (go figure) is making a big deal about the fact that
computer equipment, hard disks and optical drives to be specific, has
the words "master" and "slave" on them. these words are on all hard
disks, CD-ROM and burner drives, as well as DVD drives. I forget
whether this person is male or female, but this person is african
american (black). The age of this person, as well as his/her name is
unknown to me at this point, but this person finds "master"
and "slave" offensive, and believes these words to be a positive
reference to slavery. If memory serves me, this person wants these
words changed to something less offensive to him/her, and wants some
amount of money as well. If you've read up to this point, you might
be able to tell that this is an excellent example of the bulls***
that is happening in our country. Democracy is supposed to be about
what the majority wants, right? Well, it seems to me that lately the
minority seems to be able to cow the rest of us (the majority) and
make us feel guilty about s*** that doesn't matter. The public at
large is being dominated psychologically by the minority of this
country.

Please keep in mind that when I make a reference to "minority", i
mean to say 1 person, or a small group of persons, and I am not
saying that any racial group is lesser than any other.

On the talk radio show, a few people called in, stating their opinion
on the issue. One person called in to inform the host (I forget his
name) that "master" and "slave" are also present on A/V equipment, as
well as the old-fashioned photography. Another person called in to
suggest using "primary" and "secondary" as the replacement words.
(this person was white, believe it or not) this was discussed
breifly, and it was concluded that "primary" and "secondary" would
not work, since these words are already used in a close aspect in the
computer world. "Primary" and "secondary" are already used to name
the 2 IDE channels used to connect these disk and optical drives.
Also, "primary" and "secondary" are describing sequence,
whereas "master" and "slave" are used to describe how one device
controls another. Thus, "primary" and "secondary" would not
accurately describe what is happening, not to mention the confusion
that would inevitably come. "the primary primary device doesn't
work". That's a hosed sentence. As it stands now, the previous
statement would go something like this: "the primary master device
doesn't work". A bit simpler, isn't it?

This radio show was nation-wide, and one of the calls happened to
have originated from Denver. This caller was a black female, and she
stated that she did find this "master","slave" issue very offensive
and discrimatory. The host of the show told this woman that if no one
had brought any of this up, and she happened to hear about this fact
of pc hardware, she probably would not find it offensive, but since
someone else had raised the issue, she was willing to jump onto the
bandwagon. She hung up moments later. Ha!

My opinion on this issue is that slavery, and all the BS that goes
with it, was not on the minds of the original pc manufacturers.
Rather, they were thinking of a way to describe how the device
functions. California is renowned for its legal-rampaging lunatics
(remember the whole "under God" thing?), and more notably, the 9th
Circuit Court of Appeals in San Fransisco. This whole "blacks need
more rights" is BS. People need to realize that little issues like
this waste time and money.

OK. Now it's your turn to respond to this message post. Feel free to
say exactly what's on your mind, and please use proper spelling (get
a dictionary if you must), grammer, and capitalization. This helps to
make posts easier to read and interpret. Thank You for reading my
constant ramblings.

Didn't you mean "grammar, and capitalisation"?

Dude, we are gamers. If we wanted to ramble on about the pros and cons of administrating a liberal democratic society, It wouldnt be here.

eh? You're bringing moral issues into the fact that IDE controllers work with a 'master' and a 'slave'?
eh?!?!
Thats simply what they're called, because it accuritely describes how they work, one is a master, it gets priority, the other is a slave. The slave only gets to do anything when the master is finshed. Its just simple terminology. The same thing applies with Bluetooth wireless, theres a Master controlling and watching over a group of slaves in the network topology.

I dunno where all this is coming from, but spurts like that are the reason why your country still has race issues. Its not 'racist' to call something a slave, just becuase you had slavery 100's of years ago. Christ, we used to be a penal colony, but we wont think 'convict' is a dirty word.

I think avoiding such topics as slavery IS a form of racism, but being all 'sorry' about it, and offering compensation or anything else that the non-minority groups dont get, is also a form of racism.
Equality is the best policy, everyone gets the same thing.
(and you americans still think communism is bad...)

This topic was covered pretty extensively on Slashdot as well :)

Its pretty damn crazy though - the people pushing these issues through need to get a real job or something.

Whoever complained about master/slave terminology is the biggest racist ever!

Someone suggested on slashdot that the terminology Pimp (alternative for Master) and Bitch (alternative for Slave) would be more suitable because Pimp suggests that some kind of interface is provided. Master does not suggest this at all.

From the Collins pocket Australian Dictionary :

Master 3. controlling; specif., designating a mechanism that controls others

and according to the dictionary.com :

Slave 4. A machine or component controlled by another machine or component.

Obviously these are VALID definitions of the word slave and master. Anyone ignorant enough to think this is some kind of racist terminology is wasting the valuable resources of this planet through their continued existence. There is also a chance their stupidity will spread to others. I am aware that it can be contagious.

Some guy called me cable-select the other day. i guss now that I've read this, I should have been really angry :D

I have to say that it is very annoying when some black people (not generalising here) tell you that you're racist. They bring up something you might have said to them which you would say to any one else whether they are black or white and say "you are a racist".

that thing that happened here in aus a few years ago when some aboriginals wanted white australians to apoligise for the child takers or whatever its called decades ago!?! what's the bloody point! it wasn't us who took them away from their homes!

i think this thing with slaves and masters is totally irrelevant to black/white relations and the racist people are the ones who think that it is relevant.

Yeah, it's like paranoia. I can say to a white person I dislike, 'You're a moron', for example, and they'll say 'f*** you'. I can say the same thing to a black person (not all black people, mind) and they'll say 'f*** you, racist'.

Look, as a half-caste maori (usually mistaken for aboriginal) in (what I've heard is) one of the "whitest" towns in australia, I've copped my fair share of crap. But I find that just ignoring it is the best way to go. Yeah, sure, you've gotta let some idiots get away with some absolute neanderthal s***, but after a while things change.
They expect you to react. That's what they're looking for.I don't react.
I just take my second thought (yeah, my first is usally F*CK YOU!!!), and drift on by. Usually, the arseholes end up respecting you all the more for your fortitude.
I don't recall making an enemy this way, but I do know that I have changed the minds of a few decent folk, and given second thoughts to a few tools.
The worst thing you can do is give them ammo.

Very well said Chaotis, good man. Trog, what you said won't solve any issues like this, it will just cause more. You have to face it to end it. Also Jake, at least when asking people to use correct 'grammar' spell the word itself 'correctly'. Finally, you forget, these 'minority' groups, probably live in secluded areas where their only means of being heard are by accentuating words or 'terms' they know nothing about simply to conjure more unecessary sympathy.



'We have met our enemy, and he is us'

One thing I find quite disturbing about this thread is the way white people seem to be the only ones associated with racism. Obviously all races are victims of racism to some degree or another from many different people. I myself, as a white person, have experienced racism from Chinese Australians. When serving customers they sometimes will give preferential treatment to chinese even if you have been waiting longer in a queue. (that's one example I can think of but I have many more, not to mention the barring of whites from Asian nights at nightclubs. Something that surely the equal opportunity commission should investigate because this is ILLEGAL in Australia) An example of racism in 'non-white' countries would be Singaporean Chinese attitudes towards minorities in that country, including whites. For example, an Indian friend who worked there for some time recounted a story to me. He told me that his chinese boss remarked "I better stay out of the sun or I'll end up as dark as Abdulla". Bigotry happens in all countries people! If you want to see the hatred and racial intollerance towards whites expressed by Singaporean Chinese just check out the forums at www.sammyboy.com . This website shows you what Singaporean males are truly thinking and it's not pretty. They have a word for whites over there. They call us Ang Moh. They tell you it's not derogatory but it's equivalent to calling an asian a 'chink' here. They are still grouping us together with the sailors the Chinese had resented over a century ago. In other languages there is no polite word for 'white person'. They all have racist connotations.
I also agree with cookie. Many people are too sensitive about race. I can recount another story, where I was discussing good and evil and the state of the world with the same friend I mentioned above. I said something along the lines of "Nothing is black and white" and he made a big fuss about this use of language. If that isn't hypersensitive I don't know what is! This is similar to the master/slave terminology. He also like to remark how white I am sometimes, I don't know why. I think he had some kind of issue, and I suspect, must have been the victim of racism in the past and this has affected his ability to communicate in a natural way with other races.
Sometimes I think these sorts of problems are insurmountable and maybe there is something to be said for uniform societies such as Japan. At least in these countries there is little or no conflict along racial/cultural lines (except with visitors possibly).

Hey, not all Chinese Australians are bad, infact alot of them arnt! Just that you may have seen some of the bad ones... I definently know that my family is extremely far from racist. If we were racist to white people wed be hating half our family as alot of them are half Aussie half chinese. So remember what you have seen may be far from the truth.

Also the school i goto is like 3/4 asian and the rest Australian or other cultures. No one hates each other because of race. Everyone gets on quite well..

Anyways back to the topic, id just call this Master/Slave thing just a misunderstanding, the person that called up may not have known the purpose of these two things, just may have heard the word and thought it bad. It could also be a cry for attention, i think Americans should just think before they open their mouths and theyll be fine. Australians are very laid back and probably wouldnt care about the words, but American CAN be uptight sometimes, but the ones i know who work in the computer business (of all races) do not care about this terminoligy.

Anyone who calls u racist is usually racist themselves!! But no one believes a black person to be racist or an asian to be racist, its just a white thing isn't it!! How many famous black racist ppl do u know!!???

I can name one "Martin Luther King" He was racist, he wanted better for his ppl, he stood against white americans!!! He was racist and he lead racism... does anyone not see this!!

Or are u all to blind and told to believe that only a white person can be racist!!

This radio guy is obviously racist and its trying to make a few bucks out of it too.... legally i might add, albeit totally wrong and unjustified!!

You f***ing moron indigod:

'I can name one "Martin Luther King" He was racist, he wanted better for his ppl, he stood against white americans!!! He was racist and he lead racism... does anyone not see this!!'

King wanted his people to be treated the same, i.e. as white people and hence, ban segregation (which was clearly racist). Yes, he wanted better for his people because they were being discriminated.....How does that make him racist?? He stood up against white americas becasue what they did was wrong...and will now gleefully accept that. Maybe you should attend school you total f***up...

Indigod:
Black men and white men, jews and gentiles... Yeah real racist.
Idiot.

Have you ever heard that speech?
Strangely enough, the point is that everyone should be equal.
And I agree with King. I cannot have a beef against whites. All of the family I know is white and they are the best people I know, but I also know that the colour of your skin don't matter a s***, being really quite brown myself. Get over it.
Edit: Mind you, you do get some tools in america, and increasingly over here in au abusing the equality thing, carrying on about how they're so hard done by and taking advantage of the "new" white sensibility.
Fu*k that.
We ain't brothers. We ain't even mates. Just get over it. Yeah, there's still alot of dic*heads in power, but the only way to get rid of them is to not make a big fuss about who and what you are.
Be a good bloke and you'll go a long way in politics.
What i've found is that most, if not all, people take you at face value.
If you're cool, they'll treat you good, if you're hypersensitive (or an idiot), they'll crack the shi*s.
Fair enough. Aus out and you'll be right.

Having read only half of the replies to this thread, I hope I'm not rehashing too much.

But, this is just conceiving more racial hatred. I'm no racist, but when you hear or read about how terminology you have been using as common place is now considered racist, that just makes me mad, because it is more or less accusing all of us PC users of being no better than the KKK.

Just let sleeping dogs lay. This is publicity minorities DON'T need.

Like I said, we wouldn't even be having this conversation in Japan because there are almost no minorities in japan (except maybe their aborigines). There are a lot of benefits in having a monocultural society and I can say that without being labelled a racist I hope.

To indigod : I think you are confusing Martin Luther King with Malcom X. as far as I know Martin Luther was no racist, but Malcom X definitely was, although he changed later in life. Malcom X believed white people were created by the devil and we were inherently evil. He believed in a kind of genocidal retribution which would wipe out the so called 'white race' (whatever that is!).

I haven't heared of such a load of polly waffle bulls*** in a long time. Maybe you should consider not listening to talk radio online.

Merry Xmas Mofos

In response to 4n70ny's earlier post:

I've got a couple of Singaporean friends from uni, 1 malay and a couple of chinese fellows,I asked them about all this 'Ang Moh' business and their response was it was a dialect of chinese meaning "westerners" there was and is absolutely nothing derogatory about that. Everybody uses it in their daily talk as much as we use the word "mate" over here.
And as for that sammyboy website,isnt that a sex forum of some sort? If u look carefully enough there are malays and indians using their forums too, the problem is they all type the same funny english so its pretty hard to tell whose who. :P
Oh and I'm pretty sure singaporeans hate the japs more than they hate us :D

Martin luther king + malcom x = same black vs white s*** same black vs white channel!! Its a load of crap, how mr king he was obviously racist, how blind can u be, just because it may be sociallably wrong to think otherwise but personally u probably agree with me!!

WTF INDIGOD YOU STUPID F**K, can't you understand Mr King and Mr X were fighting for a legitimate cause?? There people were being segregated and mistreated!!!! How can it be f***ing racist to defend his peoples' rights?? That is honorable, if anything brave!! NOT f***ING RACIST YOU DUMB UNEDUCATED MORON!!

ILL_HANDLE is it necessary to respond to Indigod with such abuse? Every single one of your responses on this forum (from what I can tell) has been abusive. More importantly, any point you were attempting to make is now completely lost.
Secondly, I don't think you should not put Malcolm X and Martin Luther King on the same level. Malcolm X was a very bad racist until he found Islam. Martin Luther was a peace loving tolerant man.

In Response to Duff :
If you have any doubts about Ang Moh being racist and not racist you can look no further than this poor individual's essay on life in Singapore.
http://www.pintmaster.com/essays/angmoh.htm

Secondly, I am also sure that people in the South of the USA 50-100 years ago didn't think that the word 'n*****' was racist either and it was in common use as well. A word being in common use does not necessarily make it a tolerant or good word to use. This is a significant failure of your argument. It's also important to recognise that a word can develop negative connotations overtime because of how it is used. For example, the Latin word for black is literally niger (the shade of black). Interesting yes?

I would also like to point out that of course your Singaporean friends would say that. Ang Moh means Hairy. It does NOT mean Westerner. Your so called friends lied to you. It would be the same if I called a Chinese 'Slanty Eyes' in a similar derogatory fashion.

What I am primarily sick of is all this 'caucasian' bashing. We are constantly blamed for the world's problems and are vilified as the only group which apparently have racists (or as some like to think, we are the only racists on the planet!) This is rubbish of course, but many caucasians have taken up this cause as well. They jump on anyone like it's a form of conditioning, and are only too willing to label people in their own communities racists, when there are far worse racist atrocities being committed in Africa and Asia.

Bottom line, ILL, is that MX was pre-judging an entire race upon the actions of the few. That IS the basic definition of prejudice and therefore racist.

And An70ny, you pretty much cant make the comment "benefits of a monocultural society" without being labeled somthing negative. I suppose you are one of those people who believe Australia is following the same path as America and eventually will be as bad as they are.

Although we too (as a country) were guilty of enslaving the Aboriginals for a short period, we are no where near on par with the States and their boat loads of kidnapped Africans. Ofcourse they are going to have no racial harmony for many many generations to come.

Japan isnt the wonderful country it is because of its very few minorities, infact if you consider the amount of foreigners IN Japan as we speak then that would counterpoint your argument.

I'm not exactly trying to say that you're wrong, I guess I'm just stating my opinion, because I am a BIG fan of multiculturalism.

Question:
If Racisim is prejudice towards race.
and Sexism is prejudice towards Sex.
What is prejudice towards Religion defined as?

There are both benefits to monoculturalism and multiculturalism in all honesty. I am not sure if I would be labelled something negative if I pointed out some of the good aspects of monoculturalism. I suspect you are responding with the same knee jerk response many have to these sorts of discussions. I must be a racist too right? If we are going to adopt multiculturalism then we need to be more inclusive towards those new Australians who can feel easily marginalised. If we don't we create more problems, such as ghettos! Australia already has its fair share of ghettos and slums and I hope we don't make it even worse in the future.

Regarding Japan, I would just like to correct you. If you look at the Japanese census results on population (some results here as requested by poster below http://www.ipss.go.jp/English/psj2003/psj2003.htm There is a pdf linked from this page. See page 115 of the pdf ) it is plainly obvious there are insignificant numbers of minorities in that country, and there are little of the social problems that unplanned multiculturalism brings to the table. Instead of being in favour of multicuturalism without acknowledging any of its problems it is important to recognise the pitfalls so we can rectify them before they occur! Don't be so naive.

On the topic of aborigines, genocidal atrocities were still being committed in the early 20th century. This is not widely known.

One of the benefits the Japanese find is they can easily make decisions as a group and reach consensus faster and act on it. I discussed this with a Japanese friend and he agrees with this assessment.

Rather than casually throwing "facts" around, go and copy them into your post. Find me the part where it says that foreigners arent a minority. THEN I might be corrected.

You only referred to the Ainu. How about the Burakumin. Just because it isnt a Race related minority doesnt make it any less a minority. There is always going to be people who are adverse to them, causing general unrest. (I know this is a Race related thread but we are already sidetracked)
But regarding Race, Koreans in Japan are regarded as trouble makers by some.
How about the Ganguro? How about the teams of Yakuza (and yes, it is everywhere).
Minorities arent to blame an70ny.

And I dont think you are going to be able to pin point the reason for racial disharmony with a simple two sided argument. Theres alot more to it than either of us can debate.

My final word here is:
Even if multiculturalism is to blame, and we just cant get along, I, forever the optimist, will still fight for it.

This is like two dogs with a bone, neither is just going to lay down and accept the other's opinion as the correct one (probably because neither is the correct one). So all I have to say is...



















HAPPY NEW YEAR'S EVE EVERYONE!!!
Make it a good one!

hi Base, I posted a link in my post above (check out page 115 from the pdf).

I don't know much about these Martin Luther King or Malcolm X, really, but I did take the time to read MLK's most famous speech.

http://www.mecca.org/~crights/dream.html

Can you point out to me exactly where it becomes racist?
Sure, much of it is weighted toward the american negro, but did you really expect him to be talking about the rights of another people?

Read what you find in that speech and tell me how, exactly MLK was a racist.

I never had a problem with the master/slave terminology. I did, however take (very slight) issue with things that have been said.

Edit: Yes, I was dUrnK when I called indigod an idiot, and for that I half-heartedly apologise.

OMFG i dont' base a man on that one speech, but the actions of the man, not the words of a single drawn out speech!! Read before u speak son!

What I am primarily sick of is all this 'caucasian' bashing. We are constantly blamed for the world's problems and are vilified as the only group which apparently have racists (or as some like to think, we are the only racists on the planet!)

Finally somone gets it, we as whitey's if u will are the only ones known to be racist, how many black ppl do u know who are racist???????????? Hmm interesting isn't i!!!

Further more, it seems ok or even cool to say racist things about Caucasians on TV and in the movies. For some reason, the same standards of decency to our fellow human beings that we hold so dear all of a sudden do not apply to caucasians. It's ok for a black man to call us 'whitey'. Are westerners on some great guilt trip because of past imperial aspirations? If I had to pick between the British Empire or the Empire of Japan at the time I would definitely pick the British Empire. Both had racist attitudes but differed remarkably in their civility. There are examples of brutality from both, but certainly the Empire of Japan took the cake in the genocidal brutality stakes. I can't imagine one of our lads treating captured prisoners of war in the same animalistic brutal manner as the Japanese Imperial Army. They even had a secret unit operating in China which was conducting biological weapons research on living Chinese citizens and captured prisoners of war. Some of the things done to these people were inhuman and monstrous, such as dismemberment of live human beings. That aside, even the germans acknowledged the Geneva convention on captured prisoner's human rights, no matter what their race or religious beliefs. (I am not talking about the Jewish Holocaust here because that is another issue not directly related to the war).

Can I say 'blacky' anyone? I think not...

4n70ny....Why don't use your 'bulls***' humanities skills and go crap on about stuff without inconclusive evidence somewhere else? i.e. get a real job. :)

From ill_handle...

and go crap on about stuff without inconclusive evidence somewhere else?

Omg it burns... it burns...

http://computing.unn.ac.uk/staff/cgfm1/todaysproject/irony.gif

I knew it was only a matter of time before I ended up on the receiving end of ILL_HANDLE's fluent use of language. I would like to remind ILL_HANDLE this is just a forum where opinions are expressed. If you feel anything I have said is only my opinion then please argue against it as best you can. Unfortunately, you have not done so. Most of your posts on this forum are abusive and your opinions are often expressed childishly and argued weakly (If at all!)

Great more boxhead stupidity....no job yet craphead? Figures...........

ILL, please, no offense, but shut up. I agree with a lot of what you're actually saying, but you're burying it under craploads of abuse, and insisting that a bunch of people you don't even know don't have as good a job or education as you. It might be true, or it might not, but either way it doesn't make their opinions any less important.

I think it's one big flame anyway. Just look at his signature at the end of each post "I'M A TWAT FULL STOP". haha