For example, the best rpg to come out since fallout 3. Dragon age origins has recieved no hype, no advertising, nothing over here. Whereas in the U.S, Dragon age is just as popular as cod mw2 unlike Australia where the cod mw2 hype seems to be drowning out any hope dragon age had to be popular here.

RPGs are a bit of a dying breed here and everybody seems to prefer senseless blood shed and big guns than story telling and lore which is quite sad. Anyone else had the same experiences here? share your thoughts?

Thought this thread was going to be some kind of troll about firearms, however when it wasn't I can only contribute that I think rpgs as a gaming genre have never appealed to me.

I've just gained 47 EXP from posting in this tread.

Not long before I can +2 My Charisma and get laid, hhahahhaha.

Dragon Age thread on QGL was longer than the MW2 thread.

/end thread

It's certainly not popular with me
mainly because they feature cliche fantasy s*** like unicorns and fairies and stuff out of lotr
gay

last edited by thermite at 21:08:53 28/Nov/09

mainly because they feature cliche fantasy s*** like unicorns and fairies and stuff out of lotr
gay

couldn't have put it better myself

yeah I hated RPGs for so long because of the cliched elves and orcs routine, wasn't til Deus Ex that I tried one, and that was only because it was an FPS as well. Since then I've enjoyed a few, but I'm still a bit picky. Oblivion, KOTR, Mass Effect, Fallout 3 I've all enjoyed. Dragon Age seems like something I might enjoy but too many other games to play at the moment so meh, I'll wait til it's cheap or something.

Given that WoW is the most popular game in the world and there's jabillions of Aussies playing it I don't think that's really true... I just think WoW has so much mindshare at the moment that it's harder for other RPGs (well, other games at all, really) to get a look-in

WOW is not an RPG ...

I would have thought MMOs were just subclasses of RPGs?

Not really.

The Term MMORPG existed prior to MMOG, but it lost favour because most of them really aren't an RPG. When Everquest was released the used the term MMORPG, but WoW never marketed themselves as that.

What's "Role playing" about killing the same "named" guy over and over and over ?

its more like a 3rd person action game with really repetitive levels.

WOW is not an RPG ...

I'll bite. From Wiki:

"Role-playing video games (RPGs) form a loosely defined genre of computer and video games with origins in role-playing games such as Dungeons & Dragons, borrowing much of their terminology, settings and game mechanics."

That sums up WoW pretty much on the dot. Sure it's real-time, but the combat rolls and other things are still handled in the background much the same as NWN, Dragon Age et al.

Role playing has nothing to do with combat rolls and rolling dice, it means role as in you take on the role of a character and play in that role/in character, developing your character, etc. But I'd still call WoW a role playing game, might not have the level of choice or interaction that something like Dragon Age has, but its still developing a character and has a story.

Having said that, I think its a bit of a retarded statement by the OP to say that Dragon Age is as popular as MW2 in the US. I don't have any numbers handy (as I'm sure the OP doesn't), but that just seems like a ridiculous statement to make considering MW2 sold something like 5 million copies in its first day of sale.

I know heaps of people who've bought Dragon Age in Australia, so I'm sure RPGs are still popular here.

Dragon Age thread on QGL was longer than the MW2 thread.

Perhaps, but not longer than the dozen or so MW2 threads put together.

Perhaps, but not longer than the dozen or so MW2 threads put together.

The Dragon Age one was mostly praise for the game, compared to people complaining about MW2 sucking balls.

WoW of course will be classified as an RPG as there is no genre for it.

It most certainly isn't a "true" RPG. Any game could be an RPG, as you play a role in just about all of them.

Yeah, you could pretty much class any game as an RPG if you wanted.

RPG's are pretty much the only games I put any decent time into.

The Dragon Age one was mostly praise for the game, compared to people complaining about MW2 sucking balls.

This thread be hatin' on RPGs!

There was so much praise in the Dragon Age thread that I actually bought it yesterday and indeed it is awesome.

One of the guys at work is going back to playing COD4 after feeling ripped off by the matchmaking shenanigans that is MW2.

wow, im surprised how many people dislike rpgs. Give it a decade or so and rpgs developers will probably stop shipping to aus...Secondly IMO WOW does not count as a rpg since its more about exp collecting than role playing. You'd think aus gamers would at least have a bit more intelligence not to just play fps because its what their friends are playing and is what is the most hyped in the australian media. Guess I was wrong...

Lastly, you shouldnt really criticise rpgs considering the fact that fps are all about shooting people, shooting people, blowing people up and...oh shooting people...Guess the majority of aus gamers are just teens looking for an adrenaline burst who want the action spoon fed to them which is why they cant appreciate rpgs

Sadly the supposedly 'stupid' Americans seem to be the only ones with enough patience to enjoy rpgs unlike us who run for the next big thing in FPS

It's always sad when newbs self-destruct :)

If you'd actually read the thread, you would have seen most people here play RPGs. I'd wager most of the people here have played more RPGs than you have by a pretty significant margin. In fact, I haven't played an RPG for the best part of 10 years and I probably have played more RPGs; they were all I used to play back in the early days.

You thinking FPS games are just about shooting people is applying the exact same prejudices you're accusing FPS gamers of having against RPGs. There's a lot more to FPS games than shooting.

WoW is most definitely an RPG, by Blizzard's own definition and any reasonable other sense of the term.

In conclusion: yes, they're massively popular here. Did you see the Dragon Age thread? It went on for like a billion pages with people raving about it!

i bought it so i could become a lesbian with Lleianna or w/e u spell her name

This is why you should be rpg games.

WoW of course will be classified as an RPG as there is no genre for it.

It's genre is MMOG

Trog is an RPG and MMO hater. (Gamers are in the list also)

I'll bite. From Wiki:

Any idiot can add to wiki


At the end of the day you could argue it is an RPG. Because you "build a character" and the "game mechanics".

I'd argue it's not. In an RPG you affect the game world around you permanently. You are the hero, the villian, the savior, the destroyer. eg. Origins you crown a dwarf king, wipe out or save a mage order etc etc

In WOW you are one of 2000 other people on your server, all running seperate instanced versions of repeatable content. You are a no different to the other 2000 characters. And no matter how many times you kill the king of the enemy you'll have no change in the world for the enemy (so to speak).

Also keep in mind RPGs existed long before the personal computer.

Dragon Age seems like something I might enjoy but too many other games to play at the moment so meh, I'll wait til it's cheap or something.

Bit late, it was cheap yesterday.

I would have thought MMOs were just subclasses of RPGs?

and you'd be right, obes is just wrong as usual.

I'm playing Dragon Age now; but I dont know if it is just me, after playing Baldurs Gate II a few years back, there just isn't anything which comes close to it including Dragon Age..

I can't get into fantasy RPGs, but I played Fallout 3 for weeks and will buy the next one too.

Horses for courses. Mind you I didn't buy MW2 either, but that was more out of protest. RTS is really my poison of choice.

Also keep in mind RPGs existed long before the personal computer.

Lightning Bolt!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ekugPKqFw

and you'd be right, obes is just wrong as usual.

Nah teq you'd be wrong.

There are FPS MMOGs. To say MMOG is a subclass of RPG is is wrong.

You are wrong Obes - deal with it you stubborn barstard.

WoW is an RPG.

There are FPS MMOGs. To say MMOG is a subclass of RPG is is wrong.

I agree, but that's not what I said. MMORPGs are subclasses of RPGs.

Blizzard say WoW is an RPG: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/beginners/index.html

"World of Warcraft is an online role-playing experience set in the award-winning Warcraft universe. "

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/basics/guide.html

"Like most other role-playing games, World of Warcraft lets you advance in level as you gain experience. "

Trog is an RPG and MMO hater. (Gamers are in the list also)

I don't hate them, I nothing them!

I used to loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooove RPGs. Before FPS was invented as a genre by id Software I used to play mostly RPGs. Old school ones though. Bard's Tale, Phantasy, those ancient turn-based Forgotten Realms ones (names elude me atm, f*** they were fun though)... so many awesome memories of those games. I hit a brick wall in '93 when Doom came out... since then the only RPG I can remember playing was Knights of the Old Republic (only gave it a few hours).

trog: although id are often credited with "inventing" the FPS, they didn't. They were the first to publish a successful FPS game though and started the ball rolling on the whole FPS shebang.

I'm not sure if that is what you meant by inventing a genre? Inventing kind of implies that they were the first to develop the FPS which isn't true.

ofcourse i dont think FPS are all about shooting people. There are some laughable extras thrown in to break up the monotony but for the most part the core gameplay in an fps revolves around shooting people.

FPS fanboys will probably argue its more than that, such as positioning, camping, which guns to use, style of play but all of these aspects are there for one purpose. In cod its shoot to kill, to get exp, to progress in the 5 hour campaign, to progress in rank or just to feel uber at the end of the day. One of my friends even argued that you can mountain climb now....Be honest, you dont buy cod because you want to mountain climb....

The popularity of dragon age in this forum has nothing to do with how many copies cod will be selling in comparison to dragon age in aus. Tell me, does anyone even bother to read reviews anymore or do they simply make like a dumb sheep and play what their friends are playing. Dragon age on the pc was rated higher than cod mw2 on gamespot. Its a better quality game but which game do you think will sell the most copies. Thats right, THE two most overhyped games ever to disgrace this country. AC2 and COD MW2

obes is just wrong as usual.

Meh, I love RPG's. I also love FPS's.

I lack the skills to really get into the competitive nature of the FPS multi player though. The only FPS I actually had some chop with was RtCW: ET and it wasn't as popular as many of the other FPS games, even though it was free.

My top 5 games are all RPG games (Parasite Eve counts as a RPGish game, right? but that doesn't meant I cant boot up a FPS game and have an awesome time blasting away some mindless Zombies/noobs.

If you restrict yourself to 1 genre you're missing out on too many good games.

I really like them! Just finished my first Dragon Age Origins play through and have started another on a higher difficulty.

Am also playing another round of Mass Effect (in the process of rescuing that Asari chick).

And there is always Borderlands!

Others taking up my time at the moment:

* Far Cry 2

* Modern Warfare 2

* Secret of Monkey Island SE / Tales of Monkey Island

* Mahjonn Titans

Dragon age on the pc was rated higher than cod mw2 on gamespot. Its a better quality game but which game do you think will sell the most copies.

The one that more people want to play. Surely by now you realise that popular barely ever equals good?

FPS fanboys will probably argue its more than that, such as positioning, camping, which guns to use, style of play but all of these aspects are there for one purpose.

So what? Turning it around, the exact same argument can be made about RPGs - you spend all your time growing your character and looking for better weapons and magical potions or whatever for one purpose as well - to finish the game

I'm not sure if that is what you meant by inventing a genre?

that's what I meant

At the end of the day you could argue it is an RPG. Because you "build a character" and the "game mechanics".

I'd argue it's not.

You'd be arguing in futility.
WoW is an RPG,
- Character Development
- Skill Development
- Talent Development
- Quests
- Lore/Story
- Buy/Sell Economy
- Dice/RNG damage and damage mitigation.
---- Missing STR/DEX/INT etc. choices on level up - instead chosen with various items or chosen enchantments.
---- Just because certain items/enchantments are 'the best' does not make it less an RPG.
Every RPG from DA:O, Mass Effect, Baldur's Gate, Fallout 3 etc. All had best armour/skills/weapons to use that on subsequent playthroughs - you knew which to pick or take, much like WoW only you could respec instead of being force to reroll and the like.

Ultima Online, lacked quests or any real story but was still, an MMORPG.
If I'm not mistaken, Everquest was not the first labelled 'MMORPG' as Ultima Online also preceeded it by 2 years, and was called as such.

All you do in a RPG is kill things anyway, everything you do is related to becoming better at killing things. Your point is moot.

I can't tell if you're serious, but I'll bite.

ofcourse i dont think FPS are all about shooting people. There are some laughable extras thrown in to break up the monotony but for the most part the core gameplay in an fps revolves around shooting people.

What about Fallout 3? What about Borderlands? What about Bioshock? For that matter, what about System Shock? They're as much FPS as RPG (in some cases, more so), and they're about a lot more than just shooting people. Besides, whats wrong with just shooting people? Its been fun since the days of Doom, its still fun now.

THE two most overhyped games ever to disgrace this country. AC2 and COD MW2

Ok, I'll give you that MW2 is overhyped, but AC2? How the hell is that overhyped? I don't think I've seen any hype for it at all. If it sells a lot of copies, its because its a f***ing awesome game. Why is it that you seem to think if people like Assassin's Creed 2 or FPS games, they hate RPGs? You do realise, its ok to play lots of different types of games right? I've been playing Dragon Age, AC2, MW2, L4D2, The Witcher, Brutal Legend, Borderlands, Red Faction: Guerilla, and Batman in the past few months. Why limit yourself with this genre hate, its as stupid as people who rabidly support one console over another.

The definition of RPG is so generic that this argument is useless.

You'd be arguing in futility.
WoW is an RPG,
- Character Development
- Skill Development
- Talent Development
- Quests
- Lore/Story
- Buy/Sell Economy
- Dice/RNG damage and damage mitigation.
---- Missing STR/DEX/INT etc. choices on level up - instead chosen with various items or chosen enchantments.
---- Just because certain items/enchantments are 'the best' does not make it less an RPG.

All totally unrelated to it being an "rpg". You can have an RPG with out levels, exp, talents or stats. Very few GMs go to the trouble of buy and sell economies. Exp and levels in particular are more a way to pace content (time sink). Some RPGs don't have random number generators/dice.

Some purists (people like Typo) detest the common RPG mechanics because it focuses to much emphasis on one aspect of the game, and an aspect that is really just meant to make it a game and not a story. If people want to play with the mechanics they'd have stuck to snakes and ladders or its advanced cousins like Talisman.

You develop a character in Sims... Why isn't Sims an RPG ?
I develop a character's business in Lemonaide stand, it an RPG too ?
Quake had a story, why wasn't it an RPG ?

WoW on a role playing server is close to an RPG.
But if you think Chuck norris jokes, Obama insults and other stupid meme's are part of a role playing game ... then RPG suck
Read Feist books, they were developed from real RPG gaming sessions. Then compare that to WoW.

LOTRO is a pretty good implementation of an RPG in a MMOG.

BTW they broke WoW lore a couple of times, didn't suit an expansion so lore is most definately a back seat to other concerns. And most wow players enable instant quest text and install a quest helper so they don't have to bother with that pesky story crap.

Every RPG from DA:O, Mass Effect, Baldur's Gate, Fallout 3 etc. All had best armour/skills/weapons to use that on subsequent playthroughs - you knew which to pick or take, much like WoW only you could respec instead of being force to reroll and the like.

Again irrelevant. Replayability is a function of all games... even board games

Ultima Online, lacked quests or any real story but was still, an MMORPG.
If I'm not mistaken, Everquest was not the first labelled 'MMORPG' as Ultima Online also preceeded it by 2 years, and was called as such.

I never said it was the first Massively Online game. Merdian 59 preceded both games (it's usually credited with first). I didn't hear the term until EQ. Having played UO (and enjoyed it) I wouldn't called it an RPG either. It was more like online fantasy sims with PKing. Kal ort por (recall) was the most important thing in the game.

I loved EQ, played it for years. But even it wasn't a real RPG. I had to kill some stupid grey princess in Kera for several real life days for her head! (aparently she normally didn't have her head)... Where's the role playing in that "Go forth and mericlessly slay Princess Poopoohead and get her head (oh by the way most of the time she forgets to have a head and she comes back from the dead every 26mins). Turn that bad boy into a movie. Lets cut to the action scenes only 4 hours of killing the same character. It'd be like Groundhog day meets Conan.
It atleast was slightly more RPGish. World bosses meant that if we killed an big key story NPC no one else could (until server reset or until its nominated respawn time oO usually 7 days but sometimes 3)

I loved Bards Tale series (up until #3) as well (I even have an amiga emulator so I can play it now). I call it was an RPG, some purists would say no game where you control a group of PCs is an RPG.

I find it funny you mention iD .. they were trying to make an RPG when they made Quake

All you do in a RPG is kill things anyway

Only in the bad ones.

And you RPG experts (I love that you nothing them trog, don't play them but still have an opinion) ... list a bunch of computer games ... RPGs have existed since before the PC ... WoW is nothing like MERP, Shadowrun or the WoD series.
DnD 4th ed is similar in a few aspects but still totally different.

A final example ...
I doubt Keato or Jim has ever finished a Bioware RPG. Heck I doubt either of them spent more then a few minutes in Dragon Age Origins (if any time at all). They are not overly interested in the genre. Yet both have heavily played games like DAOC, WoW, EQ ... They both coped with Diablo 2 because it had multiplayer and enough action.

Why limit yourself with this genre hate, its as stupid as people who rabidly support one console over another.

Khel's trying to justify his love for fat italian plumbers again.

I can't stand RPG's, but I loved playing D&D in grade 7. But this was off computer

tl;dr, but f***ing cry some more obes. WoW is an RPG. Deal with it.

Hmm as I was reading this thread I got an email for 7 free days of game time in WOW. Coincidence or fate?

Obes comments only make sense in the context that "many computer games people call RPGs, are not RPGs"

Which if you care about that, is true. World of Warcraft certainly belongs to the computer game genre commonly called "role playing game", which may or may not have anything to do with the non-computer based games with the same name for their genre.

Before MMO there was MUD.

now shut up.

Wow is not an MMO or an RPG. It is an MMORPG.

All this talk makes me wanna fire up WoW and finish off the Ice Crown quests...after I check my auctions.

mmm some seriously nerdy hair-splitting & sophistry going on in this here thread.

IT'S AN RPG!
IS NOT!
IS TOO! NYER!

well done qglz!@!# :D

Wow is not an MMO or an RPG. It is an MMORPG.

MMO is a prefixed used to delineate exactly what sort of RPG it is. It's an MMO-RPG.

Like Fallout 3 is an FPS-RPG.

I suspect some people might argue that Fallout 3 coudl be an RPG-FPS, but to me its clear that it's "primary" game type is RPG. You could have a game like Enemy Territory which is primarily an FPS, but has some RPG elements where you can build skills - but it's pretty clearly first and foremost an FPS, but you could stretch and call it an RPG-FPS.

You can make the argument that MMOs are a genre unto themselves but realistically I don't think it's accurate in terms of proper information categorisation. There are MMO games that aren't RPGs.

The difference is simple, there are no 'behind the scenes' mechanics in non-RPG games.
For example, Counter-Strike, Half-Life/2/DeathMatch etc., Doom, Quake, Quake3 etc. etc.

These all have immediate consequences based entirely and solely on the actions that precipitated them. You shoot someone standing point blank in front of you, they get shot, No 'If's'.
- You directly control the 'behind the scenes' part.
(Negating latency as that's a side effect of distance gaming, not a core mechanic).

RPGS:
U.O was, indeed, an RPG - Why?
- You swing at an Ogre, a check is made on your 'swordsmanship' skill, as to whether or not it hits or its a miss.

Fallout 3 :
- You aim at the Fire Ant point blank, you shoot, but your 'character' may 'miss' even if YOU didn't, because your character fails the dice roll/weapon check.

D&D Pen and Paper ---
You tell the DM you want to 'run for the door'...
- The DM tells you the ogre swings at you while you run for the door and you must make an 'evasion' check or be hit.
----- You roll the dice, the score you need to 'win' is dependant on your 'evasion' skill etc. etc.


They all quite clearly seem very similar in mechanics same as their parent - Pen and Paper/D&D.

Then comparitively to non-RPG games, they clearly operate vastly differently and thus don't deserve the 'RPG' title.

Obes,
You are wrong.



-- That's all from me, anymore on this from Obes and I believe it's just incredibly poor trolling, rather than inability to see outside the box.

last edited by Mephz at 16:34:34 30/Nov/09

ok so what about CoH then. it does all that percentage stuff too. your sir Memphz are wrong too.

ok so what about CoH then. it does all that percentage stuff too. your sir Memphz are wrong too.

Isn't it a MMORPG? IE a game based around role playing a hero? An especially gay one?

Never played it (or its oposite) so i could be totally missing the point. But as far as i know, you build your home and fly around doing quests. Sounds like RPG to me.

It's an RTS.

But as far as i know, you build your home and fly around doing quests. Sounds like RPG to me.

Woah, I want to know what version of Company of Heroes you saw, it sounds kickass!

I'd say he's thinking of City of Heroes.

the point i am making about MMORPG is that I can see Obes point. In classic RPGs you are a hero and affect the outcome of the game, completing quests towards an end goal.

WoW is not realy like that as the game goes on forever. Sure it has SOME of the characteristics we normally associate with an RPG like leveling up and probability based encounters but also it is not your true RPG like Fallout 3 or Neverwinter Nights (only two RPGs I have really played at length because they are massive time sinks :P)

WoW is MMO because it is based around the concepts of online fantasy-based gaming, things like community and economy and complexity you would never get in a typical RPG.

So that's why WoW is part MMO and part RPG, but it's not an RPG in the purist sense of the word.

IMO

MMO is a game mechanic, its about technology rather than genre. It implies lots of people online at once in a persistent world. There have been attempts at MMO FPS games for example. I would love to play an MMO-RTS!

Its not that WoW isn't a pursits' RPG by design; the MMO mechanic interferes with the game's ability to deliver heroic change centered around a protagonist, because there are 2,000 heroes. Things like the phasing in Northrend and once-only server events like that Silithus thing make it obvious that they want the game to be more RPG rather than less, and are exploring ways for this to happen.

last edited by Hogfather at 17:37:35 30/Nov/09

the point i am making about MMORPG is that I can see Obes point. In classic RPGs you are a hero and affect the outcome of the game, completing quests towards an end goal.

WoW is not realy like that as the game goes on forever. Sure it has SOME of the characteristics we normally associate with an RPG like leveling up and probability based encounters but also it is not your true RPG like Fallout 3 or Neverwinter Nights (only two RPGs I have really played at length because they are massive time sinks :P)

WoW is MMO because it is based around the concepts of online fantasy-based gaming, things like community and economy and complexity you would never get in a typical RPG.

So that's why WoW is part MMO and part RPG, but it's not an RPG in the purist sense of the word.

IMO

Is WoW an RTS?
No.

Is WoW an FPS?
No.

Is WoW a 3rd Person Shooter?
No.

Is WoW a 3rd Person Adventure Game?
No.

It best fits into the RPG category. Q.E.D.


last edited by Mephz at 18:02:12 30/Nov/09

Diablo's an action RPG and is about as light on roleplaying as WoW is.

Oh and looks like swizzle's pro gaming career has finished.

and you'd be right, obes is just wrong as usual.

The funniest part was the long winded post that made him more wrong.