Has anyone heard about this new form you need to fill out when trying to sell your home. It has about 50 questions on it relating to how environmentally friendly your house is when you put it up for sale.

And here's the kicker - if you don't fill out the form the maximum fine is $2000!

4BC article

Smithy this arvo was comparing it to the fine handed out to the unlicensed driver who ran over a 9 year old girl as she played on her front lawn, and then drove away after. He got a $600 fine and you can get fined $2,000 for not filling this pile of horses*** out.

Where's the justice in this world!?

clicky
Sounds like another pointless hurdle

4BC dear god...why don't you just get some old Lawsie podcasts and listen to them, no wonder you bang on about some rubbish

Smithy is a goddamn patriot and eats hippy socialists like you for breakfast.

what kind of bs is that
i love my big fat aircon and electric everything and highest flow per minute wide showerhead and flush ALL the poop down in one go dunny

this is BS

I reckon I'd have forgotten about QGL and given it up on one of my previous breaks if you didn't post infi

with an avatar like that you seem like much more of a rabid partisan looney than infi

also, retarded idea with the fine.

pretty sure my house would score 0 energy stars. what's to stop people just ticking random boxes though?

what kind of bs is that
i love my big fat aircon and electric everything and highest flow per minute wide showerhead and flush ALL the poop down in one go dunny

this is BS

Dude this kind of form is perfect for you and probably infi, you can immediately cross off any house from your list too look at if it has scored well on this form as it's probably been lived in previously by a hippie socialist and not a proud patriot so you won't be able to get the smell of incence out anyway

f*** Oath. 0 stars yeah. I'll drive my big fat falcon in the asbestos roofed driveway any day.

must be very new, sold 2 properties in september and didn't hear anything from solicitor about it

Comes into effect Jan 2010

The form is mostly ok.

But why would how someone elses use power be of any interest.
eg. I have a marine fish tank. It is a power devourer.

Unless you plan on having one you won't get the same bills as me in this house.

I guess it'd be handy for finding places that were being used as hydro setups ...

Why is the fine a surprise? It's to do with housing, every Government fee, fine, tax and just general extortion is excessive when it comes to houses.

Bitching about s*** like this doesn't get the fine lowered, it gets the fine for running over pedestrians while unlicensed jacked up. But infi ruining everyone else's fun is hardly new.

I'm currently trying to sell a place, but its been on the market for 6 weeks already - also have not heard anything about it and have no intention of filling it out

reading over it, it looks like they're trying to use reverse psychology to see if people will go and change some light bulbs or put their appliances on off-peak?

what are children now?

last edited by tequila at 21:26:22 17/Nov/09

Sure its a pain in the ass, but why is it such a big deal, it doesnt stop u from selling the house. If your house has energy saving features then its a selling point, if its doesnt then its probably an old house and the people buying would know that anyway.

When I move I'm putting the original lightbulbs back, I kept them. I'm not leaving behind my $8 lightbulbs.

Just tell'm you pay for green power so that negates the need to conserve energy.

Just wait until the ETS.

Attack of The Watermelons

What's so bad about it? Fill out the questions and don't get fined, surely this isn't anywhere near the largest hurdle in selling a home.

Edit: Comrade imitation, how have you not been declared a child raping murderer by the Nazi population with that avatar around here? haha



last edited by Syco at 00:21:36 18/Nov/09

God you are awesome at blowing things completely out of proportion infi. You're a special kind of retard.

its a pain in the ass because its just more paperwork they can shove up your ass while you're already busy trying to sell a place
it serves nothing but them and their data collection requirements

Smithy this arvo was comparing it to the fine handed out to the unlicensed driver who ran over a 9 year old girl as she played on her front lawn, and then drove away after. He got a $600 fine and you can get fined $2,000 for not filling this pile of horses*** out.

So this is where you get the inspiration for your utterly nonsensical arguments from.

You want justice then do it by a jury with no financial interests in companies that want guilty convictions.

There is no court of justice today in existance that I am aware of only a court of commerce maintained by a judge who sits at a bench which in latin means bank.

What's the problem? Surely there's a value in highlighting the (reduced) on-going upkeep of a property?
Cities rebuild at ~3% annually and Architects are trying to get this green stuff in as economically as possible.
If you've got a house with insulation, a heap pump, CFL, thermally insulating windows, LEED &/or other green credentials which SAVE you money, well, that increases the value of the property. Alternatively you could just just plaster a fresh coat of paint over the top instead... (or as well as!)

Nearly half the worldwide energy consumed is embedded within the built environment. It's just sitting there, chewing the fat. Now if you could slim say a combined $500 off your gas, electricity and/or water rates annually.. That's not unreasonable, and that's a pretty penny in time.

Top notch high / drunk posting this morning Corrupt, unrelated ranting is great.

You idiot corrupt.

Our word for bank comes from the latin word banco, meaning bench. Not the other way around.

lol

anyway you're all missing the point, this is all stick and no carrot
they've just decided they want this data, "if we don't get it, we'll impose such a severe fine that we will cause them financial hardship"

and the next government comes along and decides they need a form for something, and so on and so on

hrm, fair call teq.

still, you just can say you don't know,

A bit of stick but quite a bit of carrot at the other end..

they've just decided they want this data, "if we don't get it, we'll impose such a severe fine that we will cause them financial hardship"

You're new to dealing with the bureaucracy I take it?

welcome my son... welcome to the machine

the next step is that all those suckers who installed water tanks... guess what?

government will soon be instituting annual licensing fees to "inspect" them and make sure they "comply with safety regulations".

this is to generate a new source income to replace all the lost revenue from dwindling water consumption. welcome to the next big government con.

and how will they know if you have a water tank? a home sustainability survey should help their database.

the next step is that all those suckers who installed water tanks... guess what?

government will soon be instituting annual licensing fees to "inspect" them and make sure they "comply with safety regulations".

Fits my conspiracy that they pulled out of water tank rebates because they weren't selling enough water.

uh wasn't it only a decade or two ago that they demanded everyone get rid of their water tanks because they wanted people using town water or something?

Nah, ~15 years time everyone will have to remove them because of the safety threat they impose. Just like when they had to remove them in the 60's.

yeah teq it was more like 60's or so like scooter said
and asbestos roof + rusty unfiltered tin tank is not the same as poly tank (the same s*** they've been using in plumbing for 20+ years) + filters and good tiled roofs etc pose no real problem and i doubt are going to be given the flick in 15 years.

oh and i hope everyone who bought a water tank did so with the view of i can water whenever i want or i prefer the taste not i'm saving money or the environment because you're not

how is it not helping save money or the environment if i'm using 100,000 litres less town water per year?

whats that old addage, look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves?

yeah to fund a setup where you solely rely on water tanks takes a lot of brass
and at only a buck fifty a kilolitre for town water i ain't worried about costing myself too much any time soon
and if you really cared about pennies you woulda lpg fumigated that diseasel of yours by now
extra power, better economy, way less turbo lag.

last edited by hardware at 13:45:53 18/Nov/09

we've only got 5kL I think, but thats only emptying it 20 times per year - which we do very easily

It's plumbed into the showers, toilets, washing machine, irrigation and pool/spa/pond etc
I don't think it cost more than the price of some copper piping & the two poly tanks + pump
Our water bill has reduced significantly and I can pressure wash the hirux whenever I want

In summer when the hot tub is turned off we also use that as an additional "tank" of sorts, just has a pipe coming off the roof and we dump the water on the lawn & gardens a week or two later

every little bit helps

edit: whats turbo lag? I have full power by 1200rpm or there abouts and I am already getting around 9L/100 at full noise (16psi) with 4" oversized tyres ;)

last edited by tequila at 13:52:27 18/Nov/09

how is it not helping save money or the environment if i'm using 100,000 litres less town water per year?

The environmental cost of building, shipping, implementing and eventually disposing of a suburban poly tank are higher than saving 100kL of water through the existing town water system. Remember that you are not replacing any infrastructure at all.

The economics are pretty easy to work out, and I think at current prices you don't save money by using a tank, although you get more water freedom.

Of course if there's no f***ing water in the dams then the environmental and economic stuff is less important. But I see people installing tanks in Cairns and wonder sometimes.

last edited by Hogfather at 13:59:52 18/Nov/09

What do you expect when Anna is at the helm of the SS DebtAlot. QLD government will keep inventing new ways to try and recoup that huge debt.

The environmental cost of building, shipping, implementing and eventually disposing of a suburban poly tank higher than saving 100kL of water through the existing town water system

You reckon?

What about 2 million litres (say it lasts for 20 years - which it easily could)

Well 20 years is a fair call
but since when have you stuck to anything for more than a couple of years teq

You reckon?

What about 2 million litres (say it lasts for 20 years - which it easily could)

Unless the tank usage affects infrastructure development then it is an environmental cost, not a saving. You're using MORE resources, not less, as you still need the town infrastructure. We still need pipes and dams and desal plants pumping water to homes.

If the water infrastructure is replaced by the tanks then it may benefit the environment, but to achieve that end would involve a metric f***tonne of plastic tanks.

never hardware, I'm barely in my 20s though - and I wouldn't rip out a water tank when selling a home, heh
If everyone had a 5kL water tank setup in their home for grey and waste water, irrigation etc
We'd be putting less of a strain on the current infrastructure, so we could perhaps delay the infrastructure upgrades
We would also likely have an impact on storm water drainage too, reducing maintenance costs

rather than all the water going down the drain during the storm, its getting slowly used over a longer period for more economical use (washing cars and watering gardens etc)

You reckon?

What about 2 million litres (say it lasts for 20 years - which it easily could)

Our tank has a 25 year warranty (at least 20), so they last for ages.

Edit.

It also goes both ways. yeah there is an impact on manufacturing the tanks and their eventual disposal but so is upgrading our current system, building more dams etc

There's a downside to every up. (Except Rudd and his ca$h handouts)


last edited by mission at 14:12:52 18/Nov/09

yeah thats what I was driving at, you don't dig up your yard and bury a 20kL tank if it only lasts for a few short years

once I'm more settled and I'm in a house I know I'll be living in for many years to come, I will be burying the biggest tank I can get my hands on and plumbing it all over the house/yard

We'd be putting less of a strain on the current infrastructure, so we could perhaps delay the infrastructure upgrades
We would also likely have an impact on storm water drainage too, reducing maintenance costs

But its all about quantifying these things. I don't think its a true environmental saving, or at least a lot less than they're made out to be.

Consider what happens in construction of your poly tank:

• Oil is dug out of the ground, probably on the other side of the world.
  
• Its shipped to the refinery.
  
• Its processed and eventually becomes plastic and moulded into the required shape.
  
• The tank is shipped to your house, where it serves the purpose.
  
• In 20-25 years time it is discarded and needs to be replaced.
  

Magnify that by a million or so households in order to get real usage benefit. People think "hey I'm using less water and being a good human" by buying a huge hunk of plastic without thinking about this stuff. The tank isn't a magical no-enviro-cost item.

For a million homes to use water tanks that last 20 years you need to throw away 50,000 every year if they last 20 years. That's 136 tanks disposed of every day - does that seem like an environmentally astute solution?

last edited by Hogfather at 14:20:45 18/Nov/09

same goes for solar panels.

they last for a minimum of 25 years, something tells me a poly tank will actually last a lot longer if its not exposed to the sun all day every day

also, recycling (the poly tanks)

So you can recycle them? Reference?

Theres an old couple that live near me ina fairly run down house with leaky guttering. When it rains they put their spare wheely bin under the guttering and fill it.
Now thats clever.

and then breed mozzies in the bin?

Environmentally I'd agree with Hog, but I was under the impression the reason you'd get a tank in Brisbane is so you can use water whenever you like. I was not aware anyone thought of it as an environmental plus.

I live in an area without town water and there has been a new health inspector working in the area. He apparently didn't like that a few businesses were collecting water from their roofs and demanded they be filled with town water. They tested the water before and after it was replaced with town water and the town water scored worse in water quality then the rain water off a bird s*** covered tin roof.

Also, concrete tanks last forever and a day, if you are going to bury a tank you'd go concrete.

deadly: They're regularly pimped as a 'Green Option'. Check out this Victorian Government 'make your home green' website.

Despite the initial cost, installing a rainwater tank can save you money by reducing your water bill in the long-term, and help save the environment.

d*******s, a few paragraphs later they recommend plastic.

Centralised water supply is environmentally sound rather than installing a few million plastic tanks to homes.

last edited by Hogfather at 14:41:00 18/Nov/09

The environmental cost of building, shipping, implementing and eventually disposing of a suburban poly tank higher than saving 100kL of water through the existing town water system

How much do you reckon that would cost? A water tank as you might imagine isn't a terribly complex beastie, it's low-grade polyethylene, (I'm guessing) a few gallons of oil to produce, volumetrically, shipping is expensive, but they're light, and if someone really wanted they could use bio-polyethylene from sugar cane biomass to cover the disposal, of which we have plenty of locally. I've never bought one, but, 5kL seems to be ~$1000, and that's not inclusive of rebates, which actually appear to be reasonable ? Why throw away a perfectly good water tank? 'Specially if you bury it. Signed and sealed.

Anyhow, the environmental cost doesn't mean squat, because we don't consider those 'externalities' when pricing it. s*** it could be made in China, since cargo ships & transportation in general, per unit shipped, is ridiculously cheap.

Funny, the pump for a home tank would be using nice fossil fuel power instead of the hydro electricity I imagine town water would be pumped with and it wouldn't last much more then 10 years. Plus the cost of running it would make it even less viable from a "save you money" point of view.

Oil is pretty funny when you think about it, seeing that we have to explore, drill, pipe it thousands of miles, transport via tankers worldwide, then refine, distribute to your pump, so that a litre of petrol costs _less_ than what comes out of a friggen cow a few K away. And chuck in the wars too!

5kL seems to be ~$1000

What the f***, is your water piped through gold? You pay 20c per litre of tap water?!

Mine went up recently and now costs about a dollar per kL I think.

last edited by Hogfather at 15:10:25 18/Nov/09

Yeah but hydro is typically well less than 10% overall electrical mix, so, I'd say chances are it's going to be coal or possibly natural gas if it's peaking which is driving the pump. Coal has about twice the carbon of natural gas (gas can be alot more efficient when generated, so you also get more produced energy per unit). We can leave it to the engineers to figure out other ways of powering it, but why not solar to a DC battery or invert to the grid and buy back when cheap? Flywheels would be pretty cool too.

^ hog I was talking capital cost for the volume of the tank, not ongoings in water ($1 as you say)

last edited by dranged at 15:22:40 18/Nov/09

i think you'll find he means the tank cost hoggy not water cost
quick - edit, edit!

Ahh OK. Takes a long time to repay $1,000 in water charges through the s***ter and washing machine given how cheap water is. Rebates are fine but they are our taxes so its not free money. See ridiculous State Government debt thread, rising rego costs etc...

You can probably go nuts with the garden etc though and get punched out by some do-gooder!

hardware: Nah I don't do ninja turtle edits, I'm always happy to admit if I'm wrong. Just doesn't happen very often! The edit tag on the bottom of all of my posts are because I type like a f***ing retard.

last edited by Hogfather at 15:25:50 18/Nov/09

Considering the water charge for me in my rates is usually only ~$30, it'd take me a f***ing long time to get to break even

yeah I think the economics of it wouldn't work for everyone.. but. probably an investment in your home that isn't going to lose you any money

Our tank cost us $43 after rebates so we broke even yokes ago.

All cream now baby, all cream.

I didn't get it for any grennie reasons, I just want to be able to water or wash s*** when and where I want.

My goal has been acheived.

Our tank is under the house out of the weather so I suspect I'll be buried before it is.

last edited by mission at 15:50:15 18/Nov/09

Our tank cost us $43 after rebates so we broke even yokes ago.

All cream now baby, all cream.

Government rebates are not free money. Look at how f***ed our State's debt is, and how much stuff like rego is going up. You didn't pay a lot for your water tank because the Government is playing a shell game moving money around.

Don't be deceived - unless the Government defaults we have to pay it all back! s***, I sound like infi. Suicide may be my answer.

I didn't get it for any grennie reasons, I just want to be able to water or wash s*** when and where I want.

My goal has been acheived.

This is the reason to get a water tank, to get around water restrictions.

No suicide is not the answer, Hogfather, responsible fiscal management is the answer. Don't worry, everyone comes to realise the wisdom of my statements eventually. For some people (slower people) they take a little longer. It seems like the penny is finally dropping for you.

last edited by infi at 16:10:42 18/Nov/09

hey it might as well be me getting my tax dollars back rather than those stupid kids who are chroming across the road from centerlink in the valley every morning

you get 10 points for every degenerate hit in your 4wd.

Government rebates are not free money

woah there matey;

i know sometimes we say things in the heat of the moment we dont mean.

ill let this one slide for now, but think before you type in future eh!

What happens if you get anything like on that form wrong ? would it be a contract buster ?

Don't worry, everyone comes to realise the wisdom of my statements eventually

I think I just threw up a little bit in my mouth.

What happens if you get anything like on that form wrong ? would it be a contract buster ?

Unlikely. Even IF it were a contractual term, it would be a warranty clause. Buyer may be entitled to damages (if damages could be even shown at all).

Unless the gov't decided to amend PAMDA to require compliance. In that case, who knows how far the gov't will go.

The Climate Change Con continues...
Some more on that Home sale document:
http://www.4bc.com.au/blogs/michael-smith-blog/more-on-the-sustainability-declaration/20091119-io49.html

Here are a few of your responsibilities under this act.

Not preparing a declaration - $2,000 fine.

Not displaying a declaration at inspection - $2,000 fine. So if your agent has arranged an open house and you don’t display the declaration - $2,000 fine.

Not providing a declaration on request - $2,000 fine – if someone asks you for the declaration and you don’t provide it - $2,000 fine.

These offences are offences of strict liability – like a traffic offence – there are no mitigating circumstances. Get detected – and you get done. There is no need for the prosecution to prove that you had a guilty mind – just that you didn’t have the declaration.

If you advertise a property for sale and forget to include information about where a person can get a copy of your completed declaration – that’s yet another offence.

And you have to “conspicuously display” the sustainability declaration at any open for inspection in such a way that it can be easily read by potential buyers at any time the building is open to the public for inspection – forget to do that and you can get done.

And it’s not just you. Your agent is up for a $10,000 fine for not providing a sustainability document at an open house – in addition to your $2,000 fine.

you have to laugh.
It can only get worse.

Still don't get the problem. Just fill it out and it's sweet. Surely this isn't the hardest part about selling a house.

I look forward to infi's (or FaceMan's, whatever, same thing) next piece of political commentary!

Hey FYI. The fine is $4000 for home owners and $10000 for agents. Below is a press release about it. If you are selling there is a company that does it. address is in the press release



Home Sellers Now Have Help To Report On Their Property’s Environmental Credentials

PRESS RELEASE

Australia's Queensland government has intorduced new laws requiring home sellers to prepare a sustainability declaration before marketing their home for sale. The complexity of the sustainability declaration has meant sellers and agents are left confused and scared, potentially facing fines of up to $10,000. The team at Sustainability Reports have reviewed the new legislation and can now help home sellers complete the Sustainability Declaration.

New Queensland Government legislation is causing confusion among home sellers and real estate agents. A new service from Sustainability Reports can clear the air and help sellers comply with the laws.

The regulations were introduced to assist buyers in understanding the environmental credentials of homes for sale and improve the awareness of sustainability features.

From January 1st 2010 it is a requirement that all sellers complete a complex Sustainability Declaration prior to the marketing of their property. Failure to comply can lead to fines of up to $10,000 for real estate agents and $4000 for sellers. This has sellers and agents confused and worried.

Tim Fields, Operations Manager with Sustainability Reports, is working through the new sustainability declaration in order to be able to assist sellers and agents meet their obligations.

"The biggest issue has been the short timeframe agents and owners have had to adjust to new requirements. The industry has just over 6 weeks to comply, including Christmas" Tim said.

"Adding to this is the complexity of the Sustainability Declaration. Most owners would not know the R value of their insulation or the energy efficiency rating of their air conditioner. It's just not that simple."

Tim and his team at Sustainability Reports can assist sellers to complete the Sustainability Declaration without hassle.

Tim said "we have prepared a detailed set of checks and developed an inspection process that ensures efficient and thorough completion of the Sustainability Declaration and compliance with the new laws."

"With Sustainability Reports, the new sustainability declaration will become easy."

Tim can be contacted about the sustainability declaration at www.sustainabilityreports.com.au

i suppose fpot supports this stupidity. heaven forbid questioning a pointless piece of red tap with $10,000 in fines attached as a threat.

Hahhahah sif IceMan isn't a shill for sustainability reports, obviously you don't need professional help to fill this in.

it doesn't seem too great a stretch that if the real estate agent is up for a $10k fine for not providing it (lol) then they'd prolly fill it out for ya as apart of their 'awesome' service to you.

Iceman, your website is appalling.

I'm just going to fill mine out with values that come up using php5's rand() function

Iceman, your website is appalling.

Yes! I totally support this stupidity (did I say stupidity? I meant total piece of insignificance)

You're a moron infi.