ok well for all of you that said "Conscription will NEVER happen" here is a quote from Channel 10 late news.

...With the very real possibility of a Vietnam-style draft...

also on the news, they said that America is ready for a very long, drawn out, and bloody campaign... sounds pretty f***ed up to me.

what i wanna know is, if ANYONE can find SOLID INFORMATION in regards to conscription i.e: how old do i hafta be to get conscripted etc. can they please post their links here? thanks fellas, i'm s***TING myself atm.

you have to be 17, so your f***ed

oh wait, so am i

Yes. You're right. There's definitely going to be a draft and you're definitely going to have to get killed on the ground in Afghanistan. You better be worried!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

itll be the gulf war over again if it does eventuate, more allies will be killed by friendly fire, unless one of those dumass muslim countries drops a nuke on them, then i can see the whole mid east being an atomic wasteland.

did ppl get conscripted in the gulf war?? and what are your sources eds?

No one has been conscripted since the Vietnam war.

I'd have thought it'd be 18.
Just refuse if you don't want to.

here is a quote from Channel 10 late news.

Oh yes, the pinnacle of non-biased and factual news reporting, Channel 10.

I seriously doubt there's going to be conscription - the whole point of conscription is to make up for a shortfall of troops. Right now, troops can be grabbed from every UN nation for an attack, and I think that the whole Europe/US/Anzac force is many times more than enough for a prolonged war against one country.

Let's not forget this - it's a war against one country, not a world war with many countries vs many countries.

Besides, all this only if a large amount of ground troops are needed!

It's just typical scaremongering.

Phhh, id like to see how much you took that quote out of context, Pharcyde. Is it America thats proposed the slim possibility of a draft, or us? Frankly I dont see us commiting more than a few thousand personnel at most, probably we'll do what we always do, send naval vessels as part of the inevitable blockade to shipping up there, and probably the SAS get sent in. Maybe we send up some F-111s and F-18s, but I doubt it.

Bloody alarmist fat-boy gamers. At least pretend to be cool about it, even if your not.

PS Vietnam draft went basically as follows, all males 17 years and upwards to like 35 were considered eligable unless they were:

currently doing something indispensable back home,

in university (I think),

overseas (hence draft dodgers, people just left the country)

there were a few more stipulations, but I forget them. Look on the bright side, Australia gives its draftees way more training before sending them in, so your chances of survival are better. Americans give thier drafted about 2 months of training then into the slaw. Phhh... Stupid Americans.

Jim: can you refuse conscription?!

and stopshootingme, i am not a fat gamer, i am simply trying to find out facts. I do not want to get sent ANYWHERE that i don't wanna go, I just wanna stay right here and it would seem that some government f***** is trying to take my right to a decision away from me.

I do NOT wanna see the face of war with my own eyes, i never signed up with the army, i never will... why should i go and fight with them??

Nope. If you do its into the brigg (jail). Also you look like a total coward for the rest of your life.

Notable draft dodger, President McArthy I think, might have been Reagan though.... Sif I remember names of US Presidents.

Aww don't be a spoilsport sprayNwipe. I wanted to see Pharcyde piddle his pants.

By Jim

i woudn't mind being conscripted, so long as i was in favour of the cause being fought for. If there was some mass human rights violations happening somewhere (well, they're happening everywhere) and the UN decided to get involved, i would gladly go to war and possibly risk my life, becasue i believe human rights are very import and and are worth defending.

I would have no part in this little war, which is essentially just a 'revenge' attack for what somebody did to the US. Screw that, i'm not going to risk my existence so George Dubya can claim "evil has been punished".

grrrr.

but there is no way that you can say no to it... if they want you, they'll take you... that's the WORST part about it.

its f***ing s***. I am NOT going if they draft me.

didnt clinton avoid the viet draft cause he was at harvard or sumfin?

The Labor party have traditionally opposed conscription. Moreso than the coalition at least. :)

There won't be a draft there was a huge public outcry during the Vietnam war so no Aussie government will ever do it again unless there is a more direct threat to Australia.

No-one can make you fight you simply refuse and all they do is jail you,then you can fight to save your virgin arse from some ape like inmate at one of this countries nice little prisons.

Cool, open admissions of cowardice.

At least you're honest, I guess.

Just curious, what's it gonna take to stiffen your spine and put rocks in ya undies?

Your own family all nice and toasty?

hahahaha if australia was threatened and required conscription, there would have to be a new saying
"protect the women the children and the cowards"
but then whod bother protecting those conscription dodging cowards if we were attacked.
id hope that any able bodied (or not) person would fight (whether that be knitting blankets or counseling the bereived or shooting baddies)for his country if the need arose on our home turf.
but its not just our home turf. sometimes you have to stop an enemy before they bring the war to you.

You can say no. They'll probably try and lock you up, but if you've got a reason for not wanting to go to war, then you shouldn't.

Comments from people regarding cowardice are just silly. The debate on whether people should or shouldn't go to war is fraught with incredibly varied points of view and situations. There is no way any single person has the insight to be able to determine whether or not agreeing to go to war and possibly kill people, would be better than not.

Sylvester (RAMBO) Stalone was a conscientious objecter. And then he made war movies n we all larfed.

if i were to be drafted i'd 'shotgun' a sniper....so i can be a cheap c*** an hide in the mountains

If they need me to go to war i am going ..i mean war is going to b a sad sad place friends and family dieng but if i am needed i will go to serve my country ... most of my friends say if there is going to be a war,they are going to hide in their houses,i say f*** that grow some balls and serve your country...i may sound cocky but f*** i would b s***ting myself if i was in the war but f*** its to help save some more lives ... i may lose my life because i am to cocky but thats the price i will pay

See here that the government was considering conscription for East Timor. They'll definitely be introducing it now. Commence peeing your pants!!!!!!!!!


:)

that article says anything _but_ what you said

yea but snitch east timor is no where near as big as a nuclear war would be
a lot more countries would be helping this time

You can say no. They'll probably try and lock you up, but if you've got a reason for not wanting to go to war, then you shouldn't.

i don't wanna die
that's my reason

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.



:)

Hogfather, you beat me to it

"... Comments from people regarding cowardice are just silly. ..."

Touche! But you forgot lots of fun too ;)

"... The debate on whether people should or shouldn't go to war is fraught with incredibly varied points of view and situations. ..."

Actually its prety straight forward. If you're able bodied and your country calls on you personally, you either go or you refuse.

I personally don't think "s***ting my pants" represents a valid objection. Anyone with half a brain would be scared witless, but some peopel would put one foot in front of the other and deal with the shiznit as it comes, and others would leave the country or just plain refuse.

See? Demarcation between courage and cowardice, just for you! No charge ;)

"... There is no way any single person has the insight to be able to determine whether or not agreeing to go to war and possibly kill people, would be better than not. ..."

I didn't say a single person would, could or should. This discussion is about your elected Governemnt (ostensibly relfecting the will of the nation) making this decision, and individuals trying to get out of it because they are scared.

Also,

"See here that the government was considering conscription for East Timor"

err Jim, you did read that article yes? That article is directly about the consideration to conscript troops for the East Timor enterprise.

"... The need to deploy a substantial force to East Timor has placed unanticipated stresses on the Australian Regular Army. It has become clear that rotating the troops sent to Timor is going to be difficult for an Army of less than 24 000 Regulars, as Australia's is today.

This difficulty has led some to call for the introduction of compulsory military service. Conscription is certainly a quick means of raising large numbers of troops. However, the need for training means that it would not deliver personnel fast enough to solve the Timor rotation problem. ..."

Yes, it discounted the option, but it did not claim that such an option wasn't considered. It discounted the option due to the specific circumstances of the Timor situation, in that troops were required ina relatively short period of time for alimited engagament period.

Conscription couldn't meet this particular demand.

This most certainly DOES NOT mean that conscription would not meet the demands of a general outbreak of war, or a prolonged engagement in which troops would require rotation over a period of some years.

What crap!

snitch it was just an idea they through around for all of about 5 seconds.

There is noway in hell they'll bring in the draft to back up any other nation who's on a crusade to stamp out terrorism.

If the enemy was in our country or on our door step threating us then the story would be different.FFS get out your history books and read about how popular the draft was in the 60's/70's.It would be political suicide for the governing party to bring it in in the current situation.

As for timor it is nothing like what is going on at the moment so it's pointless even mentioning it.We would have to be heading towards all out war for it to happen so you can stop packing your bags for your trip into hiding because your safe from a draft this time.

Taipan... r u still active?

asif they're going to do conscription

HAHAHA WORK FOR THE DOLE

the government has already got a list =)

20 bux a day and youre in the army!!!!

hogfather, I said: "... The debate on whether people should or shouldn't go to war is fraught with incredibly varied points of view and situations. ..."

...to which you replied:

"Actually its prety straight forward. If you're able bodied and your country calls on you personally, you either go or you refuse."

I don't think you comprehended what I said. I said 'whether people should or shouldn't'. How does your comment of 'you either go or refuse' make the debate of whether you should or shouldn't, pretty straightforward?

I personally don't think "s***ting my pants" represents a valid objection.

Unguessable numbers would personally think otherwise. Thus my comment on the debate of whether you should or shouldn't go being very difficult to answer.

I didn't say a single person would, could or should.

The Government didn't ask you to call people cowards so you, a single person, decided that for yourself.

err Jim, you did read that article yes? That article is directly about the consideration to conscript troops for the East Timor enterprise.

I sure did read it. But I didn't say that the article wasn't about conscripting troops - go back and check. I said that it didn't say what snitch said it did, namely, 'they'll definitely be introducing it now'.

What's happened here, is that you've failed to comprehend the sentences that I and others typed.

lol @ the work for the dole joke :P

i beleave i deserved to be deleted if i got deleted :)

Meh... Some ppl Wouldn't want to go cuz they got important jobs n stuff and family's to look after... so get an important job for a lil while :D

If all the Cs players go... then nothing will happen they will camp and wait for the other's but considering the majourity of the gaming population is with CS... there will be nothing maybe a gun shot every hour or so

haha yer and if they die...

"THAT GREASY ARAB HAS A WALLHACK FFS!!!!"

:D

Yeah Koopz I'm still atractive hehe :)

it appears some are assuming all conscripts will be sent to the front line.
the army isnt stupid. placement based on skills/knowledge
the defence forces have been spamming how many jobs there are to choose from for ages

do yous guys forget?
the reserves are there for a reason, if they need more than in current army
this is probly to get rid of drafting aswell.

can i just point out that the ussr had a ten year war with afghanistan and lost. The ussr was much better equiped to fight this kind of fight. and besides what will capture this bin laden guy prove one less highly intelligent motivated well funded terrorist out of a pile of thousands. but that said im fairly certain that conscription wont happen not only do they not need more troops im fairly certian there aint many aussies who want to be dragged off and die in an american war

so ur saying that the U.S.A are gonna lose the war?? or at least, win it but by a small margin? if so, that means, a long, drawn out war.

for f*** sake. i HATE WAR!! i HATE VIOLENCE!!

i am in a bad state atm :/

LMAO at sprayNwipe!!

how true - if you want as factual news as you can get watch a real news station like SBS or ABC!

I dont think we face the threat of drafting until (as many others have said) we have a threat that isn't ages away!

there will be issues however when america's stray "smart bombs" accidentally blow up part of an 'allies' country!!

In the spirit of anti-sex discrimination in the military I look forward to seeing our sisters join our brothers in the defense of our country.


Actually, I'm against conscription. I think it's a stupid idea in general except in the case of where the country is under direct military threat of invasion and more people are needed.

For a "war" against terrorists....c'mon...that's just total bulls***. Having a larger military isn't going to stop the terrorist. It's a widely accepted fact that a person willing to commit suicide to achieve a goal like assassinating someone or blowing up a building is likely to succeed. It's very hard to stop.
All the talk in the media has been about bombing Afghanistan as they've supported terrorists....fine....bomb them. Don't expect it to solve anything however. They've got jacks*** worth bombing.

Got a problem with the taliban? Take it up with Pakistan. They trained them. Oh wait...Pakistan is an ally and a nuclear power besides...
From an intellectual point of view I don't see the use of conscription for this "war". Either the Alliance military (or their special forces) will achieve their objectives (which is kill some terrorists and bomb some buildings until the public loses interest again) or it'll escalate into a *much* more dangerous (for us) war with the release of weapons of mass destruction.
Of course, politics could change all this and turn it into a war of attrition instead.
Conscription isn't needed for this. Neither are laws to ban or cripple encryption (terrorist will use the good stuff anyway), banning of flight sims (good work ACA...morons), full use of wiretapping without court orders, and whatever else the pollies decide to introduce in kneejerk reactions to this which won't help one bit against the sort of threat that terrorists pose.

pretty tough behind your FIREWALL, eh rukh?!?!

I'd like to see any hijacked planes get past *my* firewall Jim. muhahahah. (or something)

:)

For god's sake pharcyde :) quit it with the conscription crap..channel 10 is just bulls***ting you...asif australia would need conscription..we do have a reasonable army..and with the backing of countries like USA and the UK...Australia doesnt even need to send in their army whatsoever..Afghanistan doesnt even have an army as big as Aus..so stop worrying about it man..you wont get sent to war..and if you do the probability of dying is proabably pretty small..unlike WW1 and WW2 most wars fought nowadays are run by the airforce and the navy..not by sheer armed forces rushing their enemy..so please dood dont worry about it

if you believe the crap channel 10 spews out than you are a fool.
They also said that the Australian army will succeed due to its 'trained' personel, and that our armed forced are remouned for their 'skills'. I hardly think they would need to conscript.

but id say the age would be 16/18 to about 45.
im going to Switzerland if we are gonna go to war.

Got a problem with the taliban? Take it up with Pakistan. They trained them. Oh wait...Pakistan is an ally and a nuclear power besides...

Errr, Isn't the Taliban the GOVERNMENT???
If so (and I was 99.999999% sure it was), how does that require any sort of "training", let alone Militia training..

oh yeah, and Pakistan are supporting the USA... so much for the "Pakistan have nuclear weapons" fear bulls*** :)

Everyone take their purple pills and go back to the world they were living in (Matrix) before any of this started.

can i just point out that the ussr had a ten year war with afghanistan and lost. The ussr was much better equiped to fight this kind of fight...

Keep in mind that the Mujahadin (sp?) were being backed, funded and trained by the United States. They were going to get thier arses kicked until the USA decided to turn the whole thing into a war by proxy against the former USSR.

Without CIA agents giving training, and American man-portable SAMs, rifles, and kit- the Mujahadin would have been ground to dust in a year or two.

Such is not the situation today. If the Taliban decides to fight, they'll no doubt recieve support (openly or otherwise) from Iraq, Iran, and possibly some others, but no major powers will help out. Short of NBC warfare coming into play, the worst we have to worry about is high oil prices. Which'll suck, make no mistake, but we'll get over it.

Obviously we are all worried to some extent about the conscription issue, otherwise we wouldn't all be posting here. (Whether it be about being sent or about 'cowards' who refuse)

The only thing that I can say is that if I were conscripted and injured/killed I would be slightly annoyed at the Australian government for initiating conscription...

The only time I would accept such a practice(CONSCRIPTION) is if an enemy force was in the country or if they were about to launch an attack.

um the usa did give support but it was the people who did the fighting. these people have been fighting longer then the usa has been in exsistance one would think that they are pretty f***ing good at it.

look at serbia and kosovo the usa sailed and bombed some s***. didnt prove anything they are still fighting. if you think that this is gonna be a case of bomb every square inch of afghanistan well good for you. the usa already tried once they hit open dessert and empty buildings. the usa is not equiped with the right forces to fight a gorilla war. they lossed in vietnam and they will lose here. if they succeed in getting rid of the taliban and put in a pupet government what then. the taliban is already a puppet government and a s*** load of good its doing. personnaly i can beleave that the geogre w. is hoping to solve this situation with an act of genocide

so far all I've seen him do is try and BORE the terrorists to death with his rambling

make no mistake about it, those terrorists will die of boredom before he stops rambling. america WILL find them. they WILL run to the hills. they WILL hide in holes. they WILL be smoked out by boring, fumbling speeches. they have underestimated the resolve of bush to bore them to death. they WILL die of boredom. make, no, mistake,. about. it. oops. a mistake.

I'm hopefully joining the reserves at the end of the year. So, if I get conscripted, it wouldn't really daze me at all.
And I really don't think this one incident will invoke WW3. Like people have said, it's EVERYONE vs Afghanistan. I don't think they'll need any more troops if they have the combined armies of US, Aus, UK, Germany, France, China, Russia, Japan (??) etc.
That's an absolute f***load of military might.
I don't think that Afghanistan will be able to put up much of a fight even if they wanted to.
And, if we do, for some retarded reason, start taking lots and lots of ground casualties, then they'll just resort to bombing the f*** out of things (which they'll do anyway) or they might even use a low yield nuclear warhead.

NOTHING IS EVER AS BAD AS IT SEEMS.

seriously man, take a Chill Pill...

By Jim

Yeah, you like that, don't you, IDIAT!
I got it, you don't.

Why do people forget about alliances? Its not just Afghanistan vs Allies ffs.

Who's on Afghanistan's side then?
I doubt many countries will want to be dragged onto the losing side, alliance or no.

It is very naive to think that Afghanistan doesn't have allies... There are some very angry pakistanies atm. Not to mention Iraq... the list is actually quite large - almost any fundamentalist islamic state will probably join them.

Well, the more the merrier.
Trust those crazy Islamic people to join the losing side.

By Jim

By PornoPete

yes i know that afganistan is only 250 years old but PEOPLE HAVE BEEN FIGHTING THERE SINCE ALEXANDER THE GREAT YOU f***ING TOOL.

um just about every race has been fighting since they came down from the trees the only point you have is they know the area.

yes but not almost constantly for the last thousand years or so. im getting tired of arguing but i would like to say that this is not a war agaisnt afghanistan and its not afghanistan vs the world its bin ladens group (posibly) and who ever else they dig up and millitary action on a large scale agianst them will get the usa absolutly no where.

so what do they do then PornoPete? Just forget about it?

That's why America is currently in an odd position.
They have no real target to attack, but they can't just say "oh well" and move on.
They are looking for someone to blame.

indeed Bob

yeh, and how can you fight people who are quite willing to take their own lives?

Thing with Terrorists is they don't confirm to the 'rules' so to speak. Their mentality is 'an eye for an eye'. So the USA is on very dangerous ground.

By Jim

By Pharcyde

hunter:
http://plaza.powersurfr.com/storagespace/ponchomo.jpg

Under the Constitution, you can be drafted for the defence of Australia, but only serve with our borders (technically this means mainland Oz, Tassie, Christmas Islans, Cocos/Keeling Islands and even Antartica). You cannot forceably be sent `offshore'.

You can aviod the draft by lodging some sort of Consiencious(sp) Objection based on Religous or other grounds. Thye can then, at their discretion, lock you up. You can also get out of it by joining a less dangerous art of the defence force before the `join date', or by having a required job or being at uni.

so draffa... you're saying unless the fighting is being done on AUSTRALIAN SOIL, or any of the other places mentioned, it should be sweet??

if so, BRILLIANT

lol..like there is ever an excuse for an individual, or group of individuals by proxy through government to force other individuals to risk their lives, and take the lives of others for any reason whatsoever. Even the act of considering such evil as potentially valid is an act of war, not against a country, but against a person. They would be within their rights to use whatever force was necessary to repel the oppression being visited upon them :)

If that makes any sense..too much wine :*

el

Older men declare war.
But it is the youth that
must fight and die.
~ ~ Herbert Hoover

I do not believe that any man fears to be dead, but only the stroke of death.
~ Francis Bacon ~

It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
~ ~ Delores Ibarruri

Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon.
~ ~ Susan Ertz "Anger in the Sky" (1943)

Some interesting quotes no?

Everyone knows that the 'better to die on your feet' quote is Peter Garret, not Delores Ibarruri

*sheesh*

Hey Bob (or anyone else) whatyya have to do to join?

and yes id go if they had conscription. but sif they will.

I am f***ing sick of all of these f***ing ignorant young f***s.

Jesus christ pharcyde, if you paid simple attention to the media, you would realize that there is an election coming up later this year. Oh s***, that's right, you were watching channel 10. DON'T listen out for words from the media that could threaten your way of life all the time, and pay attention to the POLITICS.

Repeating what was said above, "A huge public outcry about conscription during the vietnam war."

IF you know anything about your country, you will also know that when conscription was introduced during the vietnam war there was an election later in the piece, resulting in the Prime Minister who started the whole conscription thing was very and f***ing quickly booted out and replaced by a labor government, who's Prime Minister once again very f***ing quickly opened up all of the jails, and let all the ppl who didn't want to go to war out. As a matter of fact, the first thing he did was open the jails after he was sworn in. He didn't even sit down for a cup of tea!

What i'm trying to get at here is, that if John Howard had any f***ing brains, he would NOT introduce conscription if he still wanted to keep his job as P.M.

The only reason that John Howard is popular at the moment is because of the boat people crisis, and the current yank situation. He has made some good decisions in the last 2 months, and for that reason he has a good approval rating. Through John Howard's actions recently, he has stopped a s***e load of illegal immigrants from entering the country, and supporting the yanks in various means.

These are things that should make every persons heart flutter. And for someone being as closed minded as you pharcyde, this should affect you. The boat ppl story should make you feel good, that another load of people wont come into australia, waste your taxes, and steal your jobs.
He is helping or doing something that your red blooded australian male who drunks beer for breakfast would want to see and appreciate.

Through these actions, John Howard is popular with a majority of the general population. And a lot of people know for a fact, that if he wants a third term in government, he will do anything to keep that popularity.

And if he conscripts, he will lose all that he has gained and get booted out.

So no. there will be NO conscription.
Got it?

My 2 cents on conscription

If our country is threatened, then i will fight tooth and nail on our own turf

I am NOT defending someone else's f***ing country

Go get f***ed