i playing world of warcraft last night and saw someone drinking some grog and it got me thinking. why is alcohol and tobacco leagal, yet other drugs such as pot (not endorsing it in anyway, just saying) remain on the illegal devide? i mean the government has never really given us a solid reason why this is. if you ask me tobacco and alcohol are a lot more dangerous than what pot could ever be. just think about it.

tobacco - very addictive and causes death in thousands of people each year
alcohol - distroys familes, just as addictive as tobacco and also kills thousands of people a year not to mention how many people get pissed as a fart and then drive.
pot - causing giggling, dancing if you can be bothered getting out of the chair, funny sensations in your body.

yeah some people call pot a gatway drug into others but this is also with other legal drugs such as painkillers. i've never heard of someone so high they just keel over dead. yet the government never does anything about this? i dont understand why this is. though im sure the millions of $ the goverment gets each year from these sales and bribes has nothing to do with it. what are you thoughts?

I reckon it would set a bad precedent if they started changing the legalities of something so ingrained such as alcohol. Also letting a 'drug' like weed through, again a bad precedent.

A deja vu is usually a glitch in the Matrix. It happens when they change something.

There is a long history that explains why the government considers weed an illegal substance and its actually very interesting. I can't remember any concrete facts off the top of my head, but I'm sure there are resources on the net that explain the history.

edit: Also of interest is the prohibition in the US and the effects it had.

last edited by Thundercracker at 13:10:53 29/Nov/05

I'm pro drugs... as most people know... but I don't live in a fairy world where "the man" is ruining all our fun.

Cannabis has plenty of dangers. First of all inhaling smoke is never good in any circumstance. Largely the mental health factor comes into play... you don't understand how pot *really* works, and neither do all the scientists. I have seen plenty of people ruin there lives from smoking cannabis, so not everyone just giggles.

Tobacco is just stupid... and I believe alcohol is the cause of many problems. Though I believe everyone has a right to put whatever they want in there body. I think MDMA/MDA + LSD have great potential in therapy and the mental health sector, which the government needs to realise this and not prohibit research. Drugs such as methamphetamine and cocaine, I have never met a positive case yet... but stimulants do have there place in society, but tend to be abused.

Heroin and all other opiates/opoids are very misunderstood drugs, and the current legal situation just makes use more dangerous.

That's just some of my thoughts, I like drug discussions :D hopefully people have some good input.

You're kinda underestimating some of the other downsides of pot abuse, You should perhaps do some more reading on it.

pot - causing giggling, dancing if you can be bothered getting out of the chair, funny sensations in your body.

Oh and Cannabis psychosis, Addiction, permanent cognitive impairment, Body development issues ( if taken at young age ), Paranoia, Being a stepping stone to harder drugs, increased heart rate, panic attacks, anxiety, respitory problems ( similar to what a smoker can get ), oh and munchies lol

Substance is OK if consumed in moderation.

News at 11.

Ever talked to a stoner? I'd prefer it stayed illegal so I dont have to hold up conversation with such a dead s***.

ive never heard of any of those problems before stinky so fair enough. all that stuff is pretty bad, but its better than death that occurs if you abuse alcohol and tobacco dont you think? least you would still be alive. and if tomato sauce had just 1/4 of the crap thats in a smoke, they would rip it off the shelf tomorrow

Ever talked to a stoner? I'd prefer it stayed illegal so I dont have to hold up conversation with such a dead s***.

I would rather talk to someone that smoked 20 cones instead of someone that drank a whole bottle of rum.

People can talk after drinking a bottle of rum?

i've never heard of someone so high they just keel over dead.

However, you probably have heard of people so high that they never get anything done, lead a life of no acomplishment, so in effect might as well not have lived at all.

You probably have heard of people getting so high so often that they 'forget' or more to the point become incapable of attaining enjoyment out of anything, except for getting high.

The above can easily leed to depression. Ask people who have lived very depresesed lives, they will probably say death would be just the same.

If tobacco wasnt ever legal, and we know everything we know now, it would not be allowed to be legalised and sold. History just so happens to have it created, marketed and sold before we knew the health affects of it. Now it is so engrained into society that it will take a long time to rid the population of it. It is slowly happening.

As with Alcheol, it has been around as long as mankind has. Where there are humans, there will be alcheol. It is just so easy to create, even by accident.

but its better than death that occurs if you abuse alcohol and tobacco dont you think?

People havnt died from tobacco, they have died from cancers and whatnot, associated with smoken tobacco, smoking pot has similar health risks. Remember there are farrr more chemicals in your cone then just THC. All the stuff that is typical from burning plant stuffs, all the extra chemicals used to grow the plants, usually at a rapid pace, really who knows what people use.


last edited by Tollaz0r! at 13:32:44 29/Nov/05

Alcohol is still prohibited in some countries... it was banned when I was last in southern india (Madras) but you could buy it on the black market so easily if you were a westerner.
I remember reading ages ago that the main reason that marijuana was prohibited in America was because of the conflict of commercial interest with the up & coming nylon industry. Hemp could easily provide better strand based rope & fibre than nylon & a hell of a lot cheaper & much better for the enviroment. But the nylon industry had the cash & forced the American goverment to ban hemp on narcotic grounds to prevent it from ruining thier industry.
Tobacco will be banned completely soon... it's just a matter of time. Alcohol will probably follow but society isn't ready for that just yet... I give it about 30more years.

Smoking is slowly being made illegal. Hard to make something that was legal and is addictive illegal at the click of a finger.

Alcohol. In moderation and for most people most of the time is harmless even beneficial. And is part of our culture (note in some cultures it is illegal).
None of the other drugs you mention really fit in to that category.

And the last thing we need to do is legalising anything else which will increase the strain on our overextended public health system.

ps.
Using too much of anything will kill you!
eg. Drink too much water and you will die of congestive heart failure.

But omg drink driving!
Water when used correctly will drown innocent people! ... pool with pool fence and a kid who can't swim.

OMG BAN WATER!

Banning alcahol would be stupid for westener countries ... we hardly have a positive enough population growth to keep up with all the asians and darkies as it is but if we ban alcahol it will plummet dramatically.
Drunk sex + baby is the majority of births over here ;P

by "over here" you mean ipswich right?

Hah I knew somebody would cry at my terminology ... there there Wetwired you'll be alright matey.

I wasn't having a cry, I was just saying, you can say ipswich, no one from there can read so they won't get upset at you

Two reasons why it will stay illegal. It's harder to test than alcohol. Or at least it was, when there is a 30 second "you've been smoking pot" type breath test the cops can use I think that'll be a step towards legalisation. The other reason as someone alluded to is historical - there was lobbying against it by the companies that made rope (from memory). They weren't actually anti-drugs. They were anti-it's other properties. That was a couple hundred years ago so I dunno whether it's still a valid claim :)

I subscribe to the belief that it should be legalised. Personally I don't use it but I've seen people use it in varying degrees with varying amounts of side effects. None of which were worse than the side-effects I've seen in people drinking booze.

"That was a couple hundred years ago"

"Nylon is invented 1935"

o_O

theres roadside drug testing in victoria atm, and is being lobbyed to be started here.

From what i remember, it takes less than 2-3 minutes to do a full test, so its getting pretty close.

They are doing the trail at the start of next year, it is voluntary and you get paid $20

i playing world of warcraft last night and saw someone drinking some grog and it got me thinking. why is alcohol and tobacco leagal

See this is where you went wrong..

NOW GO DRINK SOME PISS YOU PANSY INSTEAD OF PLAYING WOW.

most of you aren't responsible enough to decide whether or not to take drugs, so it's for the best that they're mostly illegal

ive never heard of any of those problems before stinky so fair enough. all that stuff is pretty bad, but its better than death that occurs if you abuse alcohol and tobacco dont you think? least you would still be alive. and if tomato sauce had just 1/4 of the crap thats in a smoke, they would rip it off the shelf tomorrow

you're joking me right ? What shell have you been living under?

At least you stoners won't breed:

Marijuana is harmful to the reproduction system. Loss of fertility in both males and females may occur. Marijuana can disrupt testes and uterine function. In males testosterone levels and sperm counts can decrease and abnormal sperm form. Menstrual periods have ceased in females who use pot regularly.

maybe you'll get cancer ... that's kinda like breeding:

There is a higher cancer risk from marijuana than tobacco. Head, neck, and lung cancers have been linked to marijuana. THC promotes tumor growth by impairing the body's anti-tumor immune system. Marijuana smoke deposits four times as much tar in the respiratory tract as comparable amounts of tobacco smoke.

Studies show that 5 joints per week are equal to a pack-a-day of cigarettes. Many of the same problems associated with tobacco use are present in marijuana smokers: bronchitis, emphysema, asthma, and others.

But you're right ... you won't die from it:

Marijuana is now one of the leading causes of drug-related emergency room episodes. In a 1999 report of 664 drug-related deaths, 187 of them resulted from marijuana use alone.

most of you aren't responsible enough to decide whether or not to take drugs

especially you stinky

It's rather simple.

Big Tobacco pays taxes. A very large amount of taxes. oh and the fact it's very deeply institutionlised having been sold commcerically for many decades. Cigarettes would not not reach market if launched in current times.

Drug dealers don't pay taxes. So they are criminals selling illegal products.

All about money, not people.

you're rather simple

Do you take drugs Jim?

last edited by A_W at 14:54:07 29/Nov/05

psychology student here encouraging the use of pot.

youll all be my clients in 20 years when you experience manic depressive episodes due to the extended side effects so smoke up ! youll make me money

Jims are my drug of choice ... They come in 3" long suppositories.

A_W is that why pot is sometimes sold in tin foil?

A_W is that why pot is sometimes sold in tin foil?

Free hat with every purchase!

more people die in 4wd accidents.

studies have shown. conclusively!
studies have also shown all that bouncing up n down is bad for your jubblies & 4wd'ers tend to shoot blanks.

it's not a fact till ya quote it! :P

also... tinfoil!? you guys are living in the 70s... its all alfoil these days ;D


last edited by demon at 15:18:09 29/Nov/05

ive never heard of any of those problems before stinky so fair enough. all that stuff is pretty bad, but its better than death that occurs if you abuse alcohol and tobacco dont you think?

I much rathre die than suffer the issuse that can develop from pot. Why don't you move to SA it's legal there. people don't really care though cause they all want speed cause pot is legal.

demon, I'm indignant and offended at your expression of data that puts 4wd's into a negative light

One time this friend of mine got high on marijuana, then went missing.. we were all concerned about where he'd gone.. then we noticed a light coming out from under the toilet door..

Being curious cats, and as there was no lock on the door, we decided to bust open the door and find out what was going on!! only to find him masturbating. OH DEAR GOD WHY, I NEVER GOT THERAPY. WHY ME.


last edited by gimpy at 15:30:26 29/Nov/05

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/4645/olsen8fa.jpg
Because they're 18+.

You are all stoners!, now pass the damn bowl. :P

Been a ex-junky myself (pot/lsd/mdma/speed) been clean for about 10 years now, first started with pot, then progressed to lsd/mdma then to shooting up speed, not very proud of myself for doing a stupid thing, so i tend to reckon that pot is a gateway drug that leads to the bigger badder hardcore drugs.

so kids dont do drugs!! 8-)

Demon ... you lie... its motorbikes that kill your testicles.

I'm probably going to regret saying this... BUT! here goes!

The REASON alcohol causes more death than other drugs is because FAR more people use and abuse it!

Having alcohol in moderation is actually good for you. Having illicit drugs in moderation is not.

Also, it's rare that alcohol will ruin your life like illicit drugs do, and if it is starting to, don't drink! Why make it illegal and ruin it for those who enjoy it.

The REASON alcohol causes more death than other drugs is because FAR more people use and abuse it!

Having alcohol in moderation is actually good for you. Having illicit drugs in moderation is not.

Also, it's rare that alcohol will ruin your life like illicit drugs do, and if it is starting to, don't drink! Why make it illegal and ruin it for those who enjoy it.

Hah? You don't have a clue do you?

It's rare that alcohol will ruin your life like drugs do? Go look up the stats from AA and other alcohol support groups. Go look up stats for domestic violence, assualts, rapes, car crashes ect. that all involve alcohol. I'm sure people dying from alcohol is a rare thing... yeah sure.

Who said illicit drugs are damaging in moderation? You seem to be the expert. Everyone already knows certain physc drugs cause no physyical damage to the body at all. Opiates (such as your "deadly" heroin) are less damaging than alcohol. I wonder why millions of people around the world are chomping down prescribed opiates 100x stronger then heroin and still living normal lives?

Pull your head out of your ass.

quoted text never lies guys, don't shoot the messenger ! i could almost beleive Obe's's's crazy story about motorbikes... if it was quoted. in any case... pfft, having kids, i'm barely responsible enough to take care of myself... JUST BARELY!@#!@#!

I suppose there are two questions here

1. Why are drugs (generally) illegal? I think the answer to that is quite clear.

2. Why then are alcohol and tobacco (and why not throw in caffiene) also illegal?

I think the answer to the second question is as much to do with lobbying by the big end of town (as hunter pointed out, then got flamed for) as it is anything else.

Alcohol, Tobacco and even Caffiene are all (to varying degrees) mind altering substances that have long term negative health effects. The main reason for their continuing legality is that the companies that make money from manufacturing and selling products containing these substances have successfully argued that the use and abuse of their products had been going on for so long that by the time the disadvantages were recognised, it was too deeply ingrained in our culture to effectively do anything about it.

It is however a dishonest argument, because everyone knows that Phillip Morris and British American and RJ Reynolds etc don't make cigarettes in order to preserve a vital part of our culture that might otherwise die out. Similarly, Lion Nathan, Fosters, Heineken etc not really in the business of altruistically propping up a vital part of our civilisation. They are all in it to make s***loads of money.

So when these kind of companies complain that a certain government policy might hurt their profits, the government tends to back down, whereas when johnny speed chef complains that the illicit nature of the speed market hurts his business, no one cares. Just witness how in the last round of tobacco law ammendments in QLD, the government wanted to outlaw the point of sale display of cigarettes. (That is, they wanted to make cigarettes something that where kept in a back room or cupboard, and were only produced when you asked for them specifically, much like prescription medicines) The tobacco companies whinged long and loud about that, presenting all sorts of dishonest arguments (ones designed to obfuscate their real objection in the trappings of a noble purpose) and after not too long the government proposed a compromise of, I think, 3m^2 of display space at each outlet. If you think about it, how many shops have much more than 3m^2 at present.

Hah? You don't have a clue do you?

It's rare that alcohol will ruin your life like drugs do? Go look up the stats from AA and other alcohol support groups. Go look up stats for domestic violence, assualts, rapes, car crashes ect. that all involve alcohol. I'm sure people dying from alcohol is a rare thing... yeah sure.

Who said illicit drugs are damaging in moderation? You seem to be the expert. Everyone already knows certain physc drugs cause no physyical damage to the body at all. Opiates (such as your "deadly" heroin) are less damaging than alcohol. I wonder why millions of people around the world are chomping down prescribed opiates 100x stronger then heroin and still living normal lives?

Pull your head out of your ass.

You sir, are a GAY f*****.

You got f***ing owned gimpy.

Owned is a matter of perspective, I don't believe I got owned.. fpot.

You gotta compare apples with apples, his comments were not correct and I can't be bothered debating in a gay ass, opinionated, drug thread. There can be no winners. Except me, cause I don't care what you think :)

This article seems to suggest that marijuana is less of a cancer risk than tobacco. I don't like the negative effects of smoking, so I try to stay away from both anyway.

The most harmful drug in society by far is alcohol. IMO the only drug that comes close is meth, which I have little love for anyway - except in extreme moderation. Do you see heroin addicts or pill munchers starting fights or raping people? Any damage they do, other than to themselves, is the fault of moronic legislation (ie stealing to pay for their next hit due to inflated prices).

I'd love to see all drugs legalised, but dispensed through health care professionals who could monitor use, health and provide advice. You might say this would be a massive burden, but think about how big the drug industry is! The legalisation of drugs would bring in billions of dollars that would have traditionally gone back to criminals. If people are going to binge, they're going to binge (regardless of legality) - all you can do is offer them help and promote harm reduction (sorry, scare campaigns != harm reduction).

Sadly I don’t think legalisation is going to happen too soon. If it did the entire police department drug squad would be made redundant. No wonder the DEA is so against making positive steps, they’d lose all their jobs! Instead they’d rather lock up otherwise innocent kids and poison Columbian families. ‘Hey Mr President, we’re losing this war and destroying families, can we have more money? Just mention terrorists to the public or something.’ Hmm, I wonder if our invasion of Afghanistan had anything to do with their poppy cultivation? Noo! Terrorists, terrorists I say! *roll eyes* I realise this is targeted at the states, but that’s where this problem originates; the only way to end this bulls*** is to cut it off at the source!

/angst

his comments were not correct and I can't be bothered debating

How were they not correct?

I claimed a large amount of people are addicted to alcohol and it causes a lot of violence/car accidents and people die often from it. TRUE

I claimed certain (it's nearly all, but I'll be safe) physc drugs cause no physical damage to the body at all. TRUE

I claimed millions of people everyday are taking pain medication (opiates/opiods) and leading normal lives. TRUE

100x stronger than heroine? holy s***!!!
If thats true sign me up you could get high for a year off one pill, or possibly die a horrible horrible death the instant it hits your tongue.

100x stronger than heroine? holy s***!!!
If thats true sign me up you could get high for a year off one pill, or possibly die a horrible horrible death the instant it hits your tongue.

Go look up the drug fentanyl (a synthetic opiate)... it's measured in MICROgrams and comes in patches and LOLLIPOPS!

Woohoo!!!
*Xy runs down the pharmacy*

"with an analgesic potency of about 80 times that of morphine."

Interesting stuff.
http://www.answers.com/fentanyl

Or better yet:
carfentanil (Wildnil) is an analogue of fentanyl with an analgesic potency 10,000 times that of morphine and is used in veterinary practice to immobilize certain large animals.

Horry fruck!

last edited by Xy at 17:28:19 29/Nov/05

How were they not correct?

I claimed a large amount of people are addicted to alcohol and it causes a lot of violence/car accidents and people die often from it. TRUE

I claimed certain (it's nearly all, but I'll be safe) physc drugs cause no physical damage to the body at all. TRUE

I claimed millions of people everyday are taking pain medication (opiates/opiods) and leading normal lives. TRUE

You're just a dips***.. with no debating skills. You couldn't argue a point even if it slapped you in the face with a 14inch rubber dildo.

What is truth, if you get what I'm saying..

"What is truth, if you get what I'm saying.."

Err being right?
Saying something that is backed by fact?

You're just a dips***.. with no debating skills. You couldn't argue a point even if it slapped you in the face with a 14inch rubber dildo.

You lose :)

Yeah those fentanyl pops are great, you got to spin them around in your mouth REALLY REALLY fast though to absorb it really quick.

There are some really strong synthetic opiates... I forgot what country it was in.. but they compressed one of them into a spray can and used it against this terroist/hostage situation. Too bad everyone inhaled it and they all ODed.

"The incapacitating agent used by Russian security forces in the October 2002 Moscow theatre siege incident was a fentanyl derivative, according to a statement issued by the Russian Health Minister Yuri Shevchenko."

last edited by Xy at 17:42:18 29/Nov/05

HAHAHAHA

As I said before, I'm not going to debate if my opinion is correct or not.. especially not with someone as stupid as you. And yes, your comments scream ignorance into my brain :(

"I'm not going to debate if my opinion is correct or not

"The REASON alcohol causes more death than other drugs is..."

Well you don't state it as an opinion, you state it like fact so I can see where people might get mixed up.

You seem to have no knowledge of the subject at hand. I don't talk out of my ass like you... I have experienced every drug I talk about. I have worked in needle exchanges and harm reduction centres.

You got nothing.

It's true, I have nothing. :(

You seem to have no knowledge of the subject at hand. I don't talk out of my ass like you... I have experienced every drug I talk about. I have worked in needle exchanges and harm reduction centres.

I have experienced all kinds of cars and a few moterbikes, I have worked in places that use vehicles. I even been to a few garages.

Does that make me a mechanic?

Who said illicit drugs are damaging in moderation? You seem to be the expert. Everyone already knows certain physc drugs cause no physyical damage to the body at all. Opiates (such as your "deadly" heroin) are less damaging than alcohol.

How many days go by before you hear about some poor jerk kid that got a bad esctacy pill or OD'ed on heroin or something?

It certainly seems much easier to get killed young from drugs than it is from alcohol. I'm sure this is because alcohol is legal so you're less likely to get a "bad batch" of rum, or something, but still - it certainly seems like there are lots of one off random deaths amongst younger people due to illegal drugs

I dunno I see more stories about kids getting drunk and stealing cars and wrapping themselves around poles than of kids dying from bad batches of cut mdma.

This thread has changed to "what drug legal or not kills the most?" it seems. No simple answer to that one. Carry on the debate.

last edited by A_W at 18:13:43 29/Nov/05

How many days go by before you hear about some poor jerk kid that got a bad esctacy pill or OD'ed on heroin or something?

Well I didn't mention MDMA in that paragraph, but since you did... obviously you've heard all the eccie arguments, if they were legal... you would never get a "bad" pill. I'm a bit divided on amphetamine drugs, because they DO cause physical damage to the body.

Heroin (diamorphine), is an opiate. I really have no problems with them. You take some, you breath slower and shallower (plus you're high). You take too much, your breathing stops.

You drink a 6 pack... you're getting a nice feeling. You skull 2 x 700ml bottles of vodka in 30 seconds... you die of alcohol poisioning.

If the heroin was pure (pharm grade), and you took the right amount... you would never OD. Just like alcohol. Injecting heroin doesn't have the safeguard of oral consumption like alcohol obviously. Though one could argue if the heroin was pure, there would be no need for IV. Just eat it :D

Theres a guy going to die in like 3 days because of heroin.

Case closed.

Theres a guy going to die in like 3 days because of heroin.

Case closed.

...because of f***ed up laws.

The heroin did nothing :)

You skull 2 x 700ml bottles of vodka in 30 seconds... you die of alcohol poisioning.

You would chuck before you got drunk and died

/cue i drank x amount of alcohol bulls*** stories

Isn't heroin physically addictive though, in the same way as nicotene?

Also, aren't there conflicting views as to whether MDMA causes damage?

i drank a caose of vodak once and wokeu p in the penitentary :(

You would chuck before you got drunk and died

Yeah because nobody has ever died of alcohol poisoning.

You would chuck before you got drunk and died

You know that's not true... not sure of the numbers, but alcohol poisoning is very common... just look at schoolies and everyone getting there stomachs pumped.

Isn't heroin physically addictive though, in the same way as nicotene?

Yes it is. You take it too much, you need it or else you go into withdrawal. You also build up a tolerance. Obviously opiates biggest draw back, which I can not defend against by itself :) So I'll compare it to alcohol :D

Alcohol is more addictive then heroin. The withdrawal symptoms for alcohol are much more severe, with death being on of them (that's right... you stop drinking, you die). Alcohol builds a tolerance, just like opiates. Not to mention the traits of an alcoholic and the devastating effect drinking alcohol everyday will do to your body.

You know over in the UK, they prescribe pure heroin to addicts (you must have a home + job and other conditions). I think it was like 25pound for 1 gram of pure heroin. Didn't cost them more then a cigarette habit, they work a normal job and have a normal life. They don't need to steal to get money to buy it, they don't need to waste time trying to score. Just something to think about :)

Also, aren't there conflicting views as to whether MDMA causes damage?

Well major damage... such as "E CAUSES BRAIN DAMAGE". Though all amphetamine type drugs have there risks... loss of sleep... loss of appetite... loss of "good" brain chemicals, these are all factors in a healthy lifestyle.

Oh right, yeah MDMA definately f***s with your serotonin (sp?) levels and whatnot, I meant brain damage.

I thought you couldn't get physically addicted to alcohol, I thought it was a mental addiction? (I'm not pretending to know what I'm talking about, feel free to correct me)

I thought you couldn't get physically addicted to alcohol, I thought it was a mental addiction? (I'm not pretending to know what I'm talking about, feel free to correct me)

Nop alcohol is EXTREMELY physically addictive... much more then heroin.

Like I said, if you are drinking enough and stop. You can literally DIE from not drinking. Withdrawals symptoms include spewing/s***ting blood, convulsions/seizures not to mention all the 'mental' things that go along with alcoholism.

It certainly seems much easier to get killed young from drugs than it is from alcohol.

are you on crack?

alcohol + cars would easily way outweigh deaths from other drugs

I've never once met a successful "pro illicit drugs" person.

rofl - and that's a fact bitches! So SUCK MY WANG.

I know plenty of successful alcoholics.

I know plenty of successful alcoholics.

I don't think success helps anyone when they're dying from liver failure.

Yeah because nobody has ever died of alcohol poisoning.

Skull 2 bottles in 30 seconds then and prove me wrong

Yes, another thread where Chub goes on about how heroin is not bad for you and years of scientific research proving otherwise is wrong...

its ok CHUB is in denial heh

I've never once met a successful "pro illicit drugs" person

how do you define successful?

Meh, no point debating anymore then. Though you do realise millions of opiates are used legally everyday, and that's all heroin is. Medical research shows opiate use is safe. If it wasn't why would we prescribe millions of people these drugs? Why do the doctors shoot you up with morhpine when you're in extreme pain? Why do addicts on the UK's prescribed heroin program lead normal lives?

Beats me.

how do you define successful?

Exactly :) because I can sure name s***loads of musicians/actors/artists and great people of our time that used drugs :P

last edited by CHUB at 19:15:24 29/Nov/05

HELLO DRUG USERS AHOY !

hey this looks interesting
http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/ketamine/effects.htm

im with chub
gimpy sux large
u anti drug people can have him on your side, hes hurting your cause

I said pro drugs you dips***. People who spout s*** like a f***en broken toilet, i.e. - YOU chub. Musicians/actors etc.. don't walk around saying take drugs they are great, they often end up in rehab too, so your point is s***. If you guys don't know what successful is, I'm not even going to explain it.

My initial point, which uhh, f***ING NO ONE, has even debated correctly, but instead MISINTERPRETED to try and SPOUT s*** ^^ about something which I did not even f***ing comment on, let alone even f***ing care about, is that alcohol does not need to be criminalised. If you can't handle your alcohol, DON'T f***ING DRINK. It's a choice like any other drug, except it's legal and produced to quality control, unlike the s*** you buy off the street. So chances are, you aren't going to die having a beer at your local pub.

It's s***heads like Chub that ruin forums because they can't actually interpret what has been said, or choose not to, simply to spout s*** about their favourite topic because they tried drugs once, OHOOHHOOOHHOOOOOO, BIG f***ING DEAL.

And where the f*** did you pull that point about people walking around on drugs 100x more powerful than heroin? I think you simply talk to annoy smart people. I mean s***, you're a DEADs***.

I'm done.

I'm done.

i bet your not

I've never once met a successful "pro illicit drugs" person

You need to get out more.

Opiate use isn’t “safe” – there are certain indications for the prescription of opioids due to their efficacy in treating conditions for which there is no better alternative – yet. People are prescribed opiates only after all other forms of painkillers have been tried or are inappropriate, and opiates are never intended for long-term use – due to the risks of tolerance, dependence, and withdrawal. Doctors use morphine for extreme, acute pain because it is effective in controlling such symptoms – and we haven’t discovered a safer alternative. They don't use them because they are "Safe" to use...

Due to their pharmacology, dependence, tolerance and withdrawal develop rapidly with long-term opioid use. This is in contrast to severe alcohol withdrawal, which is far less common and occurs in only 1 – 3% of alcoholics. Overdose of heroin does not just occur because of impurities, which you say would disappear if heroin was legalised. Overdose also occurs when opioid addicts resume use after a period of abstinence, and have lost their tolerance and used a dose that previously would have had minimal effect.

I claimed certain (it's nearly all, but I'll be safe) physc drugs cause no physical damage to the body at all.

Right – so nearly all psych drugs (whatever you mean by that) have no negative physical effects – any evidence to support that claim?

Don't try and understand his points dude, he's talkin s*** to annoy smart people. I see through his disguise.

I'll tell you why alcohol is legal

because it tastes f***ing great

the quality control argument is a good point - you hear about people dying of crappy bootleg alcohol in other countries like Bangladesh where consuming alcohol is against the law

I know drink driving etc costs more lives, I'm just thinking about the overdose/poisoning aspect

better you eat some E that you know is pure mdma than risk munching some horse tranquiliser or some bs

Everybody show your pharmacology credentials right now ... come on, out with them.
Nobody here knows jack schitt so I shall Enlighten you.

Bachelor of Science majoring in Pharmacology.
Currently 3/4 of the way through a Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery.

See thats what we need in future threads ... before spouting off show creds and people might listen to those people more :D

Also alot of claims are being thrown around with absolutely no supporting proof/pages to back up claims that are being said as factual.

*Xy sits back to listen to nubbin*

:)

if you are hawt nubbin, you can check me for prostate cancer anytime

See thats what we need in future threads ... before spouting off show creds and people might listen to those people more :D

in that case we need some aeronautical engineers, pronto!

if you are hawt nubbin, you can check me for prostate cancer anytime

No worries Spook, and I'll give you a second opinion too (with my other hand).

that sounds even hawter!

in the state of california (yank land), they have made pot legal for medical use only.

those poor peaple who are in constant pain i.e. cancer suffers, peaple who have metal plates/bolts in legs or arms/back, dieing old peaple, etc.. can grow their own (1 big plant) and/or buy from legit growers/sellers.

of course these peaple in pain have to apply for a pot useing card from the gov. with a doctor backing them up..

the local gov. in california are getting taxes from it and everything seems to be going o.k.








last edited by Primal at 21:52:45 29/Nov/05

primal i think you'll find theres evidence of a very high death rate amongst legal pot users in california

clearly legalising pot isn't the answer

last edited by nF at 21:57:23 29/Nov/05

theres evidence of a very high death rate amongst legal pot users in california

Fixed...damn gangs and there homie style drive by's!

Pot can also cause mental instability in people who have a family with a history of mental illness, so for some people a joint can mean suffering the rest of their life with schizophrenia or bipolar disorder.

primal i think you'll find theres evidence of a very high death rate amongst legal pot users in california

Based only on what primal said, you would expect a higher then normal death rate compared to the rest of the population because the people with a pot card are already damaged in some way.



We all have a random life span on Earth. Somewhere between 0-100 is usually the go. No one knows what will happen to them in 10 years let alone 5. s*** happens. For all we know nucular war will break out and then we would all be happy to be off our trees whilst slowly boiling alive.

To each his own, most people have the ability to learn about the risks they take. It is their choice to learn. It is their choice to choose the way they live. Few people choose how they die.

My friend in the US has a permit for medical marijuana from her doctor friend.
He made up some bulls*** disease and now she can smoke it :P

Based only on what primal said, you would expect a higher then normal death rate compared to the rest of the population because the people with a pot card are already damaged in some way.

THANKS A_W

Yer, I felt him channeling through me when I hit post reply. At least I said 'based only on what primal said' I thought that'd be disclaimer enough, spose not.

That wasn't one of my posts.

o rly?

That wasn't one of my posts.

You really need to get your sarcasim detector fixed, it is in really bad shape..

Do you see heroin addicts or pill munchers starting fights or raping people?

People have started wars, picked fights and raped women for a much longer time than we have used any sort of mind altering drug. More to the point, most people don’t get drunk and go, “f***, I’m going to rape that bitch” or ‘I’m going to kick that guy so hard he is going to wish I raped him”. People who do that s*** are already f***ed up and it is the entire situation that leads them to that point, not just the bottle of whiskey they consumed.

Pot can also cause mental instability in people who have a family with a history of mental illness, so for some people a joint can mean suffering the rest of their life with schizophrenia or bipolar disorder.

Sure, it is more prevalent in families with a history of mental illness, but it also happens to people who’s family hasn’t had any significant history of mental illness.

One of my (and shads) former housemate had a complete psychotic breakdown. The doctors asked us what had been happening in his life leading up to that point. When we answered he moved into a house with the biggest stoner we had ever seen (not shad or I) and our (now insane) housemate had gone from a casual user to hardcore stoner they where not surprised. In fact, that was what they expected the answer to be.

Since leaving that part of my life in the dust, it isn’t hard to see how all of the people who did drugs once or more a day changed in the few years I lived with them. They all became paranoid weirdos, while the rest of us stayed mostly normal.

To the OP:

Hemp was banned because the cotton industry had a massive advertising campaign to get it banned decades ago. Also, a lot of really rich people had huge cotton plantations, and it was in their best interests to get rid of hemp, as it is a superior product to make clothing out of.

Opiates were banned because opiate dens became a hive for really illegal and shady activities.

Alcohol has been apart of European society for thousands of years. It is ingrained into all levels of our society, for good or bad. Banning alcohol would be next to impossible now, even though we know how awful it as a drug.

Caffeine: If we had really understood how s*** caffeine was, it would never have been aloud into common beverages.

We are currently in the process of making smoking tobacco illegal.

To each his own, most people have the ability to learn about the risks they take. It is their choice to learn. It is their choice to choose the way they live. Few people choose how they die.

Except we all live in a society and we all interact with each other. If you become a drugged f***ed cockstain on society and became incapable of functioning in society, would you expect social welfare to look after you (ie food, clothing, housing and medical care)?

If you don’t what do we do with people who made the wrong decisions, throw them out on the street?

repeat to yourself the phrase 'I am immortal'. Your anxiety is purely an effect of the drug and will pass. You will be okay.

http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/info/bad_trips.htm
lol

We are currently in the process of making smoking tobacco illegal.

Hows that working out for you guys?

Eh hello. My names Tim and I'm a criminal,
In the eyes of society I need to be in jail
For the choice of herbs I inhale.
This ain't no wholesale operation
Just a few eighths and some Playstations my's vocation
I pose a threat to the nation
And down the station the police hold no patience
Let's talk space and time
I like to get deep sometimes and think about Einstein
And Carl Young And old Kung Fu movies I like to see
Pass the hydrator please
Yeah I'm floating on thin air.
Going to Amsterdam in the New Year - top gear there
Cause I taker pride in my hobby
Home made bongs using my engineering degree
Dear Leaders, please legalise weed for these reasons.

Drugs help the establishment control you. They are made illegal so you would feel compelled to take them.

I'm pretty sure there would be more protests about IR reforms if it wasn't for pot.

Typo, u do have a point about interconnected society. Personally if I was to become a 'drugged f***ed cockstain on society and became incapable of functioning in society' I wouldnt expect much at all, it wouldnt matter would it ;)

I belive our country is rich enough to support such people, so support them. Yes, I give money to bums when I have change in my pocket, I also give to musicians on the street (so worth it) and those people that ask for donations for whatever. That lady that near central stations asking money for the blind or children or whatever is the flavour of the day, she has a good memory..

My sister buys those magazines the homeless sell, does volunteer work for Drugarm, mostly going around with the vans that give out food and whatnot.

Money is something that shouldnt be horded in my opinion. After all, like the Mayen saying "in Lakech", I am another yourself.

Eh hello. My names Tim and I'm a criminal,
In the eyes of society I need to be in jail
For the choice of herbs I inhale.
This ain't no wholesale operation
Just a few eighths and some Playstations my's vocation
I pose a threat to the nation
And down the station the police hold no patience
Let's talk space and time
I like to get deep sometimes and think about Einstein
And Carl Young And old Kung Fu movies I like to see
Pass the hydrator please
Yeah I'm floating on thin air.
Going to Amsterdam in the New Year - top gear there
Cause I taker pride in my hobby
Home made bongs using my engineering degree
Dear Leaders, please legalise weed for these reasons.

Like I was saying to him.
I told him: truck with me and you won’t live.
So I smacked him in the head and downed another Carlin
Bada bada bing for the lad’s night.
Mad fight, his face’s a sad sight.
Vodka and snake bite.
Going on like a right geez, he’s a twat,
Shouldn’t have looked at me like that.
Anyway I’m an upstanding citizen
If a war came along I’d be on the front line with em.
Can’t stand crime either them hooligans on heroin.
Drugs and criminals those thugs on the penny coloured will be the downfall of society
I’ve got all the anger pent up inside of me.

in the state of california (yank land), they have made pot legal for medical use only.

I've heard you can get that here but it may not be true.

i f***ing love the streets

I have a theory. Chapelle Corby was in fact courageously smuggling 4kg of weed to the vatican to give the pope his supply of medicinal MJ. She gets held up in Indonesia, pope dies without his medicinal weed, BAM, God gets angry and Indonesia gets WTFPWN3D by a huge mofo tsunami. It all fits in to place.

/derail

no you've got it all wrong

the tsunami was sent by jesus to free chapelle, but unfortunately the indos took her bodyboard

of course! how could i not see that before! if only everyone else knew the secret truth