Well, Strex has started several big spammy threads lately so I thought I'd help him out because the forum is dead set boring at the moment. We've had some interesting topics over the last few months - girls at lans, UFOs, and racism to name a few.

There was an interesting thing on the radio a few weeks ago (which actually prompted this thread, albeit a bit late) with some really fascinating interviews with a bunch of different people regarding whether or not women should be allowed to sign up for front-line service.

From memory, I think the general consencus was no (although I did really only hear the opinions of a bunch of guys - not just peon guys at the pub, but WWII/Nam veterans as well as some fairly high ranking officers.

So, here we go - what do you guys think? It will be interesting to see what the guys that are actually serving in the armed forces have to say about it.

what i'm wondering about is, if the woman finds $50 and doesn't report it - will she ALSO....

1. get the s*** beaten outta her?
2. get 7 days in lockup? or will she get leaniancy?
3. will people ring her threatening to rape her husband?
4. will she go open on some crummy infotainment show like today tonight? or shall she goto the *cough* bigguns at 60 minutes?

who knows :) as i'm not in the army and dont want to be in the army... it matters not!

i reckon if they have exactly the same standards (i.e. they have to do just as many situps etc) and are stupid enough to want to, they should be allowed.

Bah, you're not going to get any posts with a topic like that! How about:

I'm thinking about letting girls in for free to lans, there will be a comp at the next QGL for people with penile implants (aka souped-up skyline drivers), and Hunter said that he doesn't know why people hate him. Did I also mention that I hate Nintendo, and that Q3 is a better game than CS, and I saw Goody =K45= with the wallhack.

Now just watch the posts roll in!

sounds like you've had some practice spray ;)

They would have to prove themselves as physically fit/strong as men
There could be no special allowances for entry into Infantry as their are no 'special allowances' in battle are there?
They would be raped beyond belief if captured?
Oh did I mention they would be raped? Im serious here too. POW's are treated like s***

I doubt this thread will get as many replys as the ither girls in this/that ones.

Women should be allowed in the military. They should be allowed in for free as well as there aren't many women in the military and thus they should be allowed in for free to even up the ratio of men to women.

Oh wait. I'm getting my threads confused :P

My opinion? Yes. They should be allowed in the military and in any role that doesn't have specific negative repurcussions for females (and the same applies to males). Not that I know of any such roles but an example might be if they were involved with certain chemicals etc. that might make a woman sterile but not a male. Vice versa applies of course.

Other than that....Yes.

This is another thing where people not involved should just butt out.

If you're a woman, and you know the risks of going into front-line combat (ie potential rape as a POW), then it should be your choice to decide if you want to go to the front lines or hang back and support the army the other way.

Society is f***ed because people who have no information or are not influenced by a decision butt their noses into said decision and ruin it for the people it does effect.

There's your flamebait ;p

very true tho spray

There was some interesting theory in this thing on the radio that said that women behaved better under pressure than men do.

im just replying to prove the people that said this post wouldnt get many replies wrong.

if they can prove them selfs strong enuf i dont see why not
but u would also want to sort of test that out and put chicks in combat to make sure they can handle the emotional strees and s***
im not sayign that they wouldnt be able to but half the chicks i know jump on chairs when they see a mouse i sure as hell know i wouldnt want some1 who cant even change a car trye without help to watch my back in a war

What's the best pesticide to spray on carnations?

Jim, theres some aphid stuf out, cant remember what its called though...

but yeah, basically you pass a certain level of fitness etc, your in is my policy. But its interesting to hear what many women in the reserves have to say... they dont particularly wnat to go into combat... only the femo-nazis with a point to prove...

YOU GO GIRL!

Tung

trog: Youre a complete and utter moron. Can you even begin to comprehend the sort of flame you have just set in motion???

In fact its so stupid that for once i wont even comment. Cyaz...

As many of you know I have done my time in the Army and as a frontline soldier and the thought of having my life in the hands of a woman is one i was never happy with.I will explain why shortly.

Now just a few facts about women in the army.
1.The standards for fitness is lower than it is for men eg. the baisc fitness test for men while I was in the army was,
5km run in less than 27min (women get 5min extra)
min 7 chin ups (women didn't have to do any)
min 50 sit ups in an alotted time (women did half as much in twice the time)

Now while I don't doubt that there are many women out there willing to do the hard work if they can't pass the same tests that the men have to there is noway they should be in there.

I have always had the belief that mixing men and women in a very stressful job like being in the frontline is a mistake.The presance of women creates rivelry between men and that affects moral so if they are in a frontline job they should be in all female units.Hygene for women is very different for women than men and that alone creates a large ammount of problems(I have been out at times for 3weeks or more without having a shower because the nature of the exercise called for it).

I could go on for ages about why women shouldn't be in the frontline but this post is big enough I will leave you with this thought though.

If you were wounded in the mild of a big s*** fight would you like your life to be in the hands of a 55kg -65kg girl who's only way to save you is to pysicaly pick you up and carry you out.I practiced this with guys wieghing 100kgs like myself and it is one hell of a hard thing to do particularly if they are out cold and a dead wieght.

By trog

Personally, I think that if a woman wants to, and can meet a global standard (f*** this different standards for men and women s***, they want equality, f***ing give it to them) then sure, let them fight. But like Taipan said, it's not just physical, but it's a mental/moral strain, not just for the woman, but for the rest of the people in her unit.
It has been said that male soldiers have been seen to stop and aid an injured female longer then they would aid an injured male, even if the woman is beyond any help. I dunno.
If they want in, let them.

on triple m this morning on the rumour file this guy said they are feeding the male soldiers lots of potasium cause it takes down the male labido or whatever it is
i find that funny

Wart I hate to correct you mate but potasium works the other way food like oysters and bananas are high in potasium and help boost sperm count.

It was thought while I was in that there was something added to the food to keep the guys minds on the job and there hands off there dicks but this has never been proven.

By trog

if you can't say anything nice...

trog you started this thread so what are your thoughts on the topic?

To be honest, I don't know. On one hand, I feel that if they want to do it they should be able to. I think its unfair on the guys though if they're expected to put their lives in the hands of people that aren't even doing the same amount of training though. I think if they can do the training and do the same s*** as a guy, then they should be able to do it. There's heaps of problems with it; but all the futuristic movies like Aliens and Starship Troopers have chick warriors so surely it will all work out.

*schlap*

If the women can pass the same tests as the men let em go. I reckon get a whole unit of women!. Can you imagine taking on a whole unit of kamakazi female soldiers with PMS.....not a pretty thought I must say.

technically, would there actually *be* sufficient numbers to make up such units?

who would know this?

I think you may of touched on something trog when you mentioned movies.

I know to some ppl what I'm about to say may seem alitle sexist but bear with me.I was once asked by a chick about my thoughts on this topic and when I said women mixing with guys in fighting units would be a huge mistake she hit the roof.She went to to point out that my attitude was outdated and if hollywood can accept the fact that women can do anything why can't the rest of us male opressors.

She backed up this statement by sighting such movies as GI Jane and the other one Meg Ryan was in saying that these were representitive of women and there abilities in the modern world.

After having this rather heated debate I was left wondering how many women shape their views on what women should be doing based on what they see on the idiot box?(there is a good reason TV has the nick name idiot box).

I personal don't belive in equality because men and women are not and never will be equal,this is not to say that men are better than women but quite the opposite women have abilities in many areas that men lack.I do however believe everyone male or female has the right to persue their dreams and realise their full potentcial but not at the exspence of standards or if the playingfield has to be changed to accomadate them.

I know i said above i wouldnt post, but i have to say: Taipan, here here. Very logical, rational and politically correct statements there. All true too...

Ta SSM I'm glad you think so.

Gee this thread came to a screaming halt where are all the ppl with opinions that this forum is so well known for?

Just thinking that myself actually.
People seem to have just disappeared lately.

There was a hilariously bad debate about this on A Current Affair a few months ago, it was basically between a senior military officer (retired) and some fat, saggy, grey haired feminist. Though I would be hard pressed to back one side of the other in this debate, I did have a good laugh at this dumbass woman trying to hold up the debate despite having absolutely no experience in the matter. I bet the furthest she has ever run is down to the goddamned corner store for her copy of feminists weekly.
BTW, all good point raised above. Its a very difficuly issue.

i would imagine that the prospect of being a female captured as a POW (even as a male!) would be terrifying enough to turn them away from front line combat.

and theres also the possiblity of it happening in the ranks too....but yes, females in vietnam (im talking civilans) were raped beyond beleif. Vietnam was a dirty war whos to say the next one wont be.

i just have one question... when its that time of the month for the poor women... wouldnt hygiene be an issue?? well i suppose a lil more blood cant hurt.. eh??

Frag Terminator - Yeah, but the Aussies didn't commit more than 20 or so war crimes during the Vietnam war, whilst there were hundreds of war crimes commited by US troops.

Taipan's first post was wat instantly came to mind when i read teh thread.

As teh saying goes, 'Chain is only as strong as its weakest link.'

no puns, no flames, its a fact that males a physically 'superior' in many ways.

/me wonders off...

Alrighty, I get really worked up over this topic because, for once, I know what the f*** I am talking about.

WOMEN in COMBAT does NOT WORK.

The girls are welcome in the Army, but they can do the fun things like be in catering/band/nursing etc.

Combat roles like Infantry, Artillery and Armoured are jobs that can only be done efficiently by a man. Simple f***ing fact. NO ONE will convince me otherwise.

My girlfriend said that this topic was discussed in one of her lectures at Uni, and all these ugly feminist dykes got up and were screaming about how "Women can do ANYTHING!" and everyone was cheering and agreeing that females should be able to do any role within the Army. Upon hearing this, I was about to drive back to the Uni and smack down every motherf***er with an iron bar. These bitches have NO f***ING IDEA about what goes on in combat situations.

Wartime objectives can only be completed by a few good men. A section of men who you can trust to do a job. A section will be torn apart by woman who has to have a sanitry shower every 3 days.

There is a strange phenomenon when you are in the bush for extended periods. Average women suddenly become absolute f***ing babes that you would kill your mate in order to root her. It has happened to me, after a long bush excercise I developed an attraction to a medic, but I never would have looked at her twice in a civilian situation.
If a woman was part of a section (9 ppl), then she would no doubt be used as the section ground-sheet, and thus cause jelousy amongst the men - destroying the mateship bond.

This is only one reason, and I could go on forever about all this s***. Just take my word for it.

WOMEN in COMBAT does NOT WORK.

Capiche?

haha, you've just got no idea strex
women are just as good as men at it - in fact probably better because they can climb over things easier

well come on, bite, damn you

No. I actually agree with you Jim.

You have changed my whole opinion.

BTW I love boobs.

3 minutes, damn I gotta be more patient

Technically women can stand more G's in an aircraft they are better equiped to fly airplanes than men :P
get it better equipped hehe

HHAHAAHHAHAHA, I get it

I don't get it

Good points though strex. Would it be possible to segregate troops maybe? So you had a female-only platoon or something like that?

That would only rectify one issue.

The fact remains that woman physically do not make good soldiers. It has never been the case and never will be.

No matter how neutral and politically correct you want to be, women CAN'T do everything.
Just like males cannot wash clothes as good as females, woman cannot shoot a gun/carry f***loads/march forever like a man can.

What's the use of having an sK platoon of women?

c0rrsux

StreX I totaly agree mate and I have used that point about women and there affect on men in the feild.The trouble is women will argue that if the men are truely professional they should be able to look past what sex a person is and get on with the job.

In many cases I would agree but not in the feild and not on the frontline.I have seen a units moral fall apart because of girls bed hoping from one guy to the next.

I was in arty while in the Army and the gun that we used wieghed in at almost 8 ton,to set it up took a great deal of strength and quite often we had only 7 or 8 men instead of the 10 that we were suposed to have.The gun needed to be set up very very quickly and there is no time to look out for ppl that couldn't do a job.

Yah, one of the (many) problems with women as inf is that the bones, too, are just weaker. pelvis breaks (often) with a 3m drop, not so for guys...

Read the BOOK of starship troopers and (IIRC) they had it such that males were favoured in infantry and females were favoured in the air force. Then of course there were exceptions, IF they passed a common standard.

Of course my opinion counts for crap all compared to those who are in the service, but strex it sounds like you are saying the problems are with the males? You say that the MALES are the ones who have problems with the females. I can appreciate that any factor that causes problems in a unit should be removed, regardless of whose problem it is, but in a longer term i might think that IF the females were of the same standard as males, then you'd have a much larger army if males adapted to not have such problems. I'm not fussed about 'equality' or such really, just interested to see what you think.

(hehe, i can see now why they might put potassium/whatever in to the food :) )

Even though the whole arguement is fair, a woman dieing in combat would sound far worse then a man dieing in combat.

Hmm, i suppose you do have to take into account the hostage value. Females would be more 'valuable' if you threatened rape/torture, rape is a much stronger bargaining chip.

Here's a quick story about women that I have run into while on exercise.

While on K89 my unit was sent about 200km west of Kathrine to give a demo of our guns(M198 155mm) to a large group of ARES soldiers.Being reserves they had a large contingent of women and they had been out bush for a few weeks.

Before starting our demo we had sometime to stand around yacking an were doing a few last minute checks when a mate asked me if could smell something.There were about 20 of us standing there and we could all smell this fowl stench but we were totaly at a lose as to what the cause was.

We were about to start checking the truck we were standing near incase it had picked up some roadkill on the trip when a group of about 40-50 women came around the corner of a small hill about 40 yards away.

At first we thought it wasn't possible that a human could smell that bad but sure enough it was the girls and to say that we were amazed is an understatement.These girl so we found out had been out bush for only about 2-3 weeks and apart from a small ammount of water to take care of basic cleanliness hadn't seen let alone used a shower in that time.

When we first got a wiff of them they must of been like a good 100m away on the other side of a small hill which I still find amazing even to this day.I realy am not trying to sound gross but the smell was like having your head jammed between the legs of a dead womans corpse.I felt sorry for these girls because they must of known about it as none of them lifted there heads when they past us and the looks on their faces,they knew we could smell them.

Sad but true

Well I have seen some women in the Army that are more man than alot of guys at QGL. But there is one fundamental difference that will always cause problems in the field - a VAGINA. It bleeds alot and can cause major hygene issues, plus dirty soldiers like to put their penises inside them to relieve the stress of warfare or exercises.

So the problem is probably with us men. We would not function properly as soldiers with a woman in the gun pit next to us. Even if somehow the woman was a better shot, her presence would still become negative one in the end.

Woman civilians are treated bad enough during wartime, I would hate to think what enemy soldiers would do to a female soldier. See what she is really made of?

asif women can wash clothes better than men

boys are better than girls :p

Yeah, I can concur with Taipan.

I have been on exercise with alot of female officer cadets, and after a few days out bush doing soldier-type s***, they produce this pungent stench that is incomprehensible. Some of you may doubt this fact, but it is completely true.

Yes, in the bush men stink, but women absolutely reeeeek!

me thinks they make the girls smell so the boys dun sex0r them :p

So you're saying the real problem is that (apart from hygiene) the guys are too horny ? :) I suppose the type of males that join the military are aggressive (both temperamentally and sexually) so that might be expected.

It seems to work fine in the Israeli army doesn't it? As for mentioning *hygiene* and periods - aren't you grasping at straws there Gruntle or whatever the f*** yer name is. Haven't you ever heard of the contraceptive pill and how the amazing leaps in medical technology in the last 30 years means we don't have to HAVE periods if we don't want them.

I find it amusing that you assume captured male soldiers don't also suffer rape. And they do just as much - go do some research.

At least women don't fall over if they have a little hurtee like you guys do. Honestly, men get a f***ing sniffle and they act like they are dying.

If the women can front up and do the same training as the men I think women in the front line is a great idea.

"At least women don't fall over if they have a little hurtee like you guys do. Honestly, men get a f***ing sniffle and they act like they are dying."

Saying that totally discredited your post.

You have nfi so stfu.

i think that stench maybe a natural repelent :)

or a natural location device for the enemy soldiers!

i have noticed that all the dudes that are in the actually army strongly disagree with women in the frontline.
they would be the ones to know what would be best for their army, not some moralistic nerds who think equal rights correspond to every aspect of the world.

get a grip on reality loverat.

Now loverat I think it is you that needs to do some research.

I have done the job and I'm speaking from experience women are bad for frontline units.War is a hard enough issue to deal without throwing in male/female relations,hygene,training standards and a plethora of other problems.hell when I did my basic training we had to carry packs that wieghed as much as 30-40kgs over distances of more than 20km the girls in training never had to do this and couldn't of don't it.

You mentioned the Israeli and mixing the sexes on the frontline.As we all know this is true but you have to remember that they are never far from all the ammenities of home and don't spend very much time in the field.

As far as taking pills to enable a person to continue in the frontline thats just f***ing ridiculous it's hard enough to resuply units that are in a war situation without adding more things that they need.

I will bet that the real problem here is that some women have a problem with some-one saying that they are not allowed to do something because its the law.Given the chance to actualy do the job those same women would probably say something stupid like "no I don't want to do it I just want the chance to if i felt like it.

One other thing you should try and get your head around is why should men be put at risk in the name of equality.Weak links have a way of being dealt with in the army you only have to read a few book about Nam to see what some soldiers did to officers that put the lives of there men in danger through their incompitance.

A physicaly or mentaly weak person is a liability and would be dealt with harshly if not FRAGGED.While not common it isn't unheard of for weak members of a unit to mysteriouly disappear before,during and after combat.

A saying we are all familiar with "you are the weakest link goodbye"

gimme jor chair gimpee

i can't beleive it!!!!
trog says the forum is dead BORING!!!!!!!
FAWK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:P


i think that the girls should be in on everything that the blokes do, but NO excusing them from doing less excersises in trials eg: pushups, situps ect...

it is now the 21st century and the women are screaming for equal rights, so give it to em. make em do the same amount of pushups. make em run the same distance in the impossible to reach time.

and the good thing is, if women get COMPLETELY equal rights, and one of them slaps you in the pub, you can lay em out on the floor. equal rights :P

---

Health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.

On the topic of hygiene again periods or not women have particular needs on a daily basis.For a start they stink so bad you can smell them coming and that is a threat just on its onw.

I have trained in some cases eating no heated food using no soap not brushing my teeth and many other things purely because the smell is enough to give your position away or alert the enemy to your presance.

After being out for even a week you start to notice smells like fires and even what fuel is being used on them you can smell tooth paste from a 100m or more away and soap is a dead set give away.None of these things even come close to how easy it is to smell an unwashed woman you might as well run around with a f***ing great sign on your head saying here I am come kill me.

I think it's a bad idea having chicks on the front lines. I ask a question to all the guys in this forum. You are in combat. You see a seriously wounder male soldier. You also see a wounded female soldier. Which one would YOU help first?

Be honest.

I think the summary is that the military is separate from society and they shouldn't make any sort of compromises for any reason, even if it is one that applies to normal society. Also that ideals shouldn't be applied to something that is very non-ideal.

?

boobs over balls anytime.

Thats another interesting side to this topic when under heavy stress ppl get pretty agro and I have seen guys tare eachother apart due to shortening tempers,and even I have had my share of bust ups over seemingly trivial things.

If 2 guys in my unit had a problem they were allowed to sort it out the boss would just turn a blind eye to it.It made no difference if one guy was clearly bigger or tougher the problem was sorted if not right there then soon after.Now what happens if a girl becomes abusive and or aggresive and hits one of the guys?Does he allow her to throw her wieght around or does he belt her back?If a guy of the same size as the girl did the same thing he'd get belted and no-one would bat an eye over it as he deserved it.

Girls seem to have this view that they can do as we do to eachother without facing any of the reprecusions,a bit like having your cake an eating it to.

I recieved a good belting from a little guy in the army who was a boxer and while I was only 17 and he was 33 I took my medicine like a man and learned from it.Would a girl do the same or would she expect to get anyway with it based on her sex?

A little touch up never realy hurt anyone and it is an excellent teacher when it comes to knowing your place in a unit and having respect for those around you.

i would help the one that is injured the most first!!

QGL should be like that Taipan eheh

The media aspect is also a bit nasty. Most people wouldn't care if two guys had a fight but if some guy beat up a girl then it would be headline material.

I think that this thread has achieved all its going to.

Taipan has made excellent points, LoveRat debunked the girls argument in one post, and a lot of idiots made themselves sound stupid...

LISTEN TO THE PPL WHO ACTUALLY KNOW!!!! (thats NOT me BTW) :)

Loverat only made one post

And don't argue with her strex, she's a wee bit tougher than necra *grin*

hah!

I do not consider it an argument when the facts are so heavily weighted on my side that the opposition is resorting to posting nonsensical, unrelated crap as a last ditch effort to stay in this obvious slaw of a debate.

As a woman, I have to say that I completely agree with Strex. As much as I hate to say it, with women in the front-line there are complications...

Now Rips# is a woman who can see past all the feminist and moralist bulls***, and have a look at this issue from a common-sense point of view.

Good s*** :)

Trog: looks like your mission is an unqualified success.
What about other branches of the service? There are are fair number of female pilots and navy officers around arent there? Though I believe woman arent allowed to serve on SSNs in the US, due to the close quarters, right?

The military is so much larger than just running in and shooting people. My feelings on the matter are, because of medical, genetics and mental conditions men make better Infantry.

Just like Boxing. Men make better boxers. Sure women can box, but you would be insane to put a man and a women of the same weight in a ring. Because pound for pound of just muscle weight, the guy is stronger. Pound for pound of body weight, the guy has more muscle as well.

However Infantry isn't the only thing they can do. While being the most important stratigic part in any real campaign (you can not take and hold land with out infantry) it is also the most specilised in what it needs. For the most part women just can't get there with out a lot of special consideration.

This might sound mean, but it honestly isn't ment to actualy be it. Honestly if I was on the field, mates backing up mates, your life in your friends hands ... If that friend was illqualified to actualy be there, and only got there because they had a easier test ... Would you feel entirly safe?

Then again, if for some reason they found some girls with the same muscle mass, and muscle strength (pound for pound) as men, who had no medical reasons which limit them, and where angry angry girls ... Who can pass the basic training that men do as easly as men can (not to say that basics is easy) then I belive that they would (eventualy) accepted and thrive in that position.

(its nearly 3 am, and im rambling so deal with it :P)

I was watching a documentory a few months back on the top long distance runners in the world.They mentioned one thing that i found interesting,they stated that the female body is actualy better biult for endurance than the males body is.

They did however go on to say that the reason men will never be beaten by women is purely because of mens supirior strength.I know this fact realy s***s some women but it is a genetic fact of life and they should just get over it.

Personaly I'd love to be able to swim like Ian Thorpe but I am not capable of ever reaching that level but you don't see me crying over it and demanding that they hadicap him or allow me some kind of edge in training so I can compete.

When it comes to genetics there are limits on us all some of us except it and get on with doing our best at what we can do,others bitch and complain that they aren't being given the oppertunities other are.I say get over it and except that some ppl will never do certain jobs.

Hmmm, i think the whole women on the front line thing i think, is a hygene issue. True we do get out period, so we DO need showers more regulary and YES our smell would be a threat.

Judging by male attitudes i'd have to say that they would f*** anything in range, so i guess that in itself would be pretty dangerous. Seeing as Taipan ( I Think) said he's seen units morals fall apart cause of bed hopping s***.

And i'd HATE to imagine what they would do to us if we were caught :( I mean even our days women get brutally raped all the time and we get bottles stuck up there, broken bottles, UGH.

In my opinion some-most girs could handle the situation should we be properly prepared and go through the same s***house trainging males do. But i just don't think it would work.

I know quite a few females in the army. One of my friends just recently got accepted. Girls can acheive anything they put their mind too, but GIRLS ON THE FRONTLINE/IN COMBAT JUST WOULDNT WORK.

Leave all the smarts to us ;)

I dunno if I'd be very happy about being given assault orders from a woman. Pretty much every chick I know, knows f*** all about any kind of tactics. I think women are better negotiators and politicians than soldiers or tacticians.

sif you would call being a cook 'smart'

Ahahahaah!

Why laugh BOB, you're the one that said "I think women are better negotiators and politicians than soldiers or tacticians."

Like i said Leave all the smarts to us.

hey necra, your big ugly pussy is getting anoying already.

Hey Guess what.....f*** off :)

ahahah your into him

lol it's not THAT big

Now now necra your suposed to be a nice young lady so please refrane from using such unbecoming and fowl language. :)

PS did I spell refrane correctly?

spel it lik u want

Seems Strex is one of those lewsers that can accept women if they agree with his seemingly self inflated point of view. Seems Strex has a bit of a *right man* complex. Go and read Maslow's Theory of Hierarchy, it sums you up to a T :D

Taipan - cut lunch commando mate? Do a stint with the reserves did you? If the army is such a man's place why did YOU leave it :) Couldn't handle the pace?

Quoting Taipan:

"I have trained in some cases eating no heated food using no soap not brushing my teeth and many other things purely because the smell is enough to give your position away or alert the enemy to your presance."

What are the enemy going to do?? Send in a unit of elite period sniffing dogs? Maybe they will start a new division called 3PMS. You so should call our Army Intelligence Unit and tell them you have a great idea for finding enemy female soldiers! Im sure the enemy would be able to find you by pinpointing the smell of s*** dribbling out of your trap =)

Well f***... :(

It's ok Taipan, i still love you :)

LoveRat i think he said he left because he was in it for 10 years (i couldn't be bothered reading it all again tho

Jesus, would you listen to this scrubrat.

Typical bored housewife who thinks she is the authority on everything in the whole f***ing world.

I take offence to that s*** you said about Taipan, he is a really nice genuine bloke who actually knows what he is talking about.

..then along comes big mama feminist whinger and discredits respectable Taipan, with no basis to her arguments other than her built-in bitch mode preset on women domination.

Sick of women like you Loverat? Yes I am.

Atleast females like necra and Rips# have a sense of reality and listen to the facts.

That is all.

Ok ten years is a decent time limit for military life. My entire family is military so I do know ;)

Another thought though. Who mentioned equality? If women stood up as a group and said "We are women and we don't want to go to the frontline" - the lamers on this thread would be saying "you bitches want equality - now eat lead in the frontline ho". But then if it was open to women the men would have nothing on which to hang their machissimo would they :P

Is LoveRat a female??????

yes she is

Gee thanks for that Rabobank

True StreX, LoveRat does sound like an bitter opinionated housewife.

Go on Loverat, go and gossip this one over the back fence to all the other saggy middle-aged mothers in the neighbourhood.

Don't forget to pick up your 8 kids from school this arvo!

:D

LoveRat its tipical of the type of person you obviously are to asume that I have no idea about the real army.Because if I do know what I'm talking about my arguement would be valid and you would be shown to be wrong.So it's easyer for you to asume that I was a weekend worrior and therefore know nothing.

I have servered in the regular army and most of it in frontline units the other unit I was in worked on experimental weapons.I started in infantry and then transfered to Arty.I do know what I'm talking about because I have lived it.

Women in the frontline is bad news.Just because in the normal world women get a chance at any job doesn't mean the same rules should apply to the army.

You haven't put up one even remotely valid point as to why women should be in frontline units.And where do you get off imposing your ill educated views on anyone.

It's this bulls*** femminist crap that will cost good hard working men there lives and all because some pathetic crying bitch wants her equality.Sounds fair to me you get your equality and some where down the line in years to come some poor sucker dies because of a womans feeling that she is being held back by unfair laws.

PPl like you are dangerous idiots and if I was in a gun pit with some-one that was a liability it wouldn't be the enemy they'd have to worry about.

Oh and your stupid comments about women and there periods just go to show how little you understand the situation.

Shutup and go and do something usefull like shave your armpits.

f***ing moron.

Women can have all the equality they want but you would never here me bitching if they never wanted to fight in the frontline.

Even if they were made to fight I would still oppose it even more so if women didn't want to fight.

LovRat if all the women stood up and said they never want to be frontline soldiers all you would here from the men doing the job is a sigh of relief.

I will tell you something guys in field units miss not having women around and speaking from experience I used to hang out to get back to base so I could spend sometime around the girls because I missed them.

Doesn't it seem odd that given the chance to have women there all the time that the guys don't jump at the chance.They don't jump at the chance because they know there life depends on being able to count on the guy beside them.

Are you saying we're unreliable?

FFS read above necra. This has been explained numerous time.

"They don't jump at the chance because they know there life depends on being able to count on the guy beside them."

I'm doughy ok, i dont get that comment.....

Shush or i'll smack you :)

necra what is this fascination with pussies?

leave her alone. i suffer from the same problem :D

good one savage ;)

if Wimen arnt reliable and men are make HESHES!
Half FEMALE and Half MALE! they could climb good and go in planes good and they would be able to do Hard things that the normal lady couldnt do!!

ok then

I think stileproject have a few of them around nagarroth.

taipin = legend

rrr..respect!

Yes Sir.

that cat MOVES$#1@#$

it's scaring me

Taipain I agree with SO much of what you have said. Thankyou for representing us in the army well.

And LoveRat, when you are out bush, and someone, for instance is wearing deoderant, you can smell it from like 50-100m away. Same if someone is smoking. Your sense of smell becomes very acute, along with your hearing.

Whereas I have had some VERY bad experiences with reserve units (Monash University), there are good reserve soldiers out there. From what I have read and heard, Strex is one of them. So before generalising the whole group, take a second look, and see if there is a possiblity of exceptions of in your case, exaggerations.

I agree however, that there may be a case for TOTALLY women units ie, WOMEN DIVISIONS. This would allow a total combined unit to work effectively, hopefully out of contact of men for the majority of the time out bush.

Well thats my 2 cents. :P

crikey, why do they let nerds in the army

err, how does putting all the stinkies in one division solve things?

They kill them first Doober :)

typical f***ing feminists.

all they f***ing do is f***ing winge and whine like a wingy babies.

Get the f***ing point across you f***ing idiots, and LISTEN to ppl like taipan and strex who have done this sort of thing or are doing it right now!!!

like taipan said, ill-educated views.
ill-educated opinions can f*** everything up. and the reason that ppl don't f***ing realise this is because they are f***ing stupid and don't generally think.

and i'm not a shovanistic male either, i personally think that women SHOULD get a lot of equal rights.
but use your f***ing brains here ppl, if a situation arises where every motherf***er in a unit can get blown away, and the only person who can fix it is worried about breaking a nail, trying to get a f***ing suntan, or feeling a bit crappy coz its that time of the month, then that's a bit unacceptable don't you think??

all this f***ing world needs is for ppl to USE the f***ing brains they were born with and use a bit of common sense. i now actually call it UNcommon sense, coz no c*** uses it anymore.

well that's my rant, and pls don't nuke my post admins for all of the swearing, but sometimes you just have to get your point across.

I have to take the counter point decayingcorpse and say you've degraded your opinion's worth by even using stereotypical lines such as 'worried about breaking a nail' etc. If you're not going to be serious, and aren't going to use serious arguments then that is no good for the purpose of discussion is it?

I mean, i know loverat is obviously wrong in her arguments too but you're falling in to the same traps of just saying 'damn, she must be a feminist', much like she had similar generalisations and assumptions about taipan and strex being chauvinists etc. Sometimes you gotta sit back and think alot about what you're saying. You shouldn't criticize people and classify them (as feminists in this case) just because they disagree with you. They might be (in this case probably are) wrong but you gotta give them respect - if they deserve it by being just as civilized, serious and respectful as you are to them.

true true, but i'm not making the opinion, i'm just restating that women should stop and think about what they're trying to get themselves into.

all i really had to say was women can't have their cake and eat it too. -equality

(typed it a bit too fast)

I have to agree with the other army fella's...

Women in a front line regiment is a bad idea, as it causes too many problems...
Unless they are in a support role... i.e. admin back at the barracks...

Well i guess the killer is that if men and women were equal then we'd all be gay.

I'm a big supporter of equal rights, but not at the expense of good judgement. If it could *even possibly* cost someones life, it's not worth is.

Hmm, i don't know korbs. In the longer term, developing rights and fixing people attitudes would serve more to reduce wars and that is certainly worth lives. A bit clinical but not enough people around think in the long term, which is what really counts in the end.

You f***ing mongs! Go read my webpage and see how much of a f***ing feminist I am. Yet again you pull out all the usual pathetic stuff. Any woman that has an opinion that differs to yours is a feminist. I dare say any woman that doesn't want to f*** you is also a feminist or a lesbian or a slut - not too mention a woman of impeccable taste.

Dumb s*** Smack - I opted out of the idea of having kids a long time ago when I realised I might spawn some moronic feebleminded git like yourself. Probably just what your mother is thinking right now truth be told.

Decaying Corpse - if only your name really related to your organic state - oh wait I think it DOES! Well that explains the sludgy matter you have between your ears:

"and i'm not a shovanistic male either, i personally think that women SHOULD get a lot of equal rights.
but use your f***ing brains here ppl, if a situation arises where every motherf***er in a unit can get blown away, and the only person who can fix it is worried about breaking a nail, trying to get a f***ing suntan, or feeling a bit crappy coz its that time of the month, then that's a bit unacceptable don't you think??"

No, thats not chauvinistic at all is it? Do you f***stains even read what you write?? Are you saying that men are never affected by anything? That they are so well adjusted that nothing could sway them from their duty? What a load of s***. I've been around military MEN all my life and some of them I wouldn't trust with YOUR life let alone MINE.

And the reason I savaged Taipan? Because it seems to me gaming is full of cut lunch commando's and wannabe's. The kind that paint their pc's in camo paint and think that games are like real life war. Its kind of like you all accusing me of being a feminist when I dont give a f*** about equality for the fairer sex. If they cant look after themselves as I do I couldn't care less.

Had I come into this thread and said:

"oh yes you are all so right I couldn't possibly be in the frontline because I might be wearing a tampon that day"... you would have applauded me. The fact is guys like you don't like ANYONE having differing opinions to yours and especially not when dealing with such a *mans issue*.

God help most of you when you get out into the real world rofl!

Doober: i think you may have misunderstood my post, matey. When i referred to 'equal rights' i was only referring to the whole male/female thing. Unless there is some massive apocalyptic men vs women war sometime in the future i think it's safe to say that the military not allowing women to serve in the front line won't cost any lives.

Women in 'most' western democratic countries have it pretty good now (as opposed to 30-40 years ago) equality-wise. I get the impression that women just want the *opportunity* to serve in the front line simply for the sake of equality, not becasue there are ,infact, masses of women out there wanting to see frontline action. As you can read from this post, for every theoretical benefit of women being given the opportunity, there are dozen practical drawbacks, so in the end, i think women should be denied this opportunity (not because they don't deserve it, but because it just wouldn't work)

You have issues LoveRat....

I suggest you seek help or take a pill...

after my amusing discussion with lr just then primal, i'd have to agree with you on that :)

One of my best friends in engineering is a ex army girl ...

I laughed and laughed when I heard the line "and the only person who can fix it is worried about breaking a nail, trying to get a f***ing suntan, or feeling a bit crappy coz its that time of the month, then that's a bit unacceptable don't you think??"

I tried to imagine karen even toying with those thoughts ... actualy she would probably try and kill me for even trying to think of her that way ...


Oh and the point about the isralie defence force having women serve in front line forces ... They are surrounded by millions of arabs who hate every single Jews guts ... With only 1/6th of one border against the sea. With internation presure being placed on Israil to give back the land it won when the Palistians attacked them... I would imagine that they could mount bombs on the back of dogs to charge into the enemy masses they would ...

Ok Im now confused. We start this discussion with a bunch of guys, basically patting themselves on the back with how male they are, and look at me Im a tough guy and I can slag off women like the best of them (yes thats all you really did, occasionally a good point would come out of all the male chauvinistic dogma that you babbled, but rarely), and then lo a women who is not what you expect from a women ( omg she can slag you off like the best of you poor pathetic lot) and you all start whinging like sissys.

Now for the majority of you the basic argument is women are well pussys and shouldnt be allowed in the army, cause they should be having kids, or cooking stuff for the men or making men happy. Nice f***ing argument.

So far, despite his hotheadedness about the subject, and lets face it rather wonderfully sexist comments, sgt strex has put up the best arguments that I could find. Men will be men. How can you carry out your duties if you want to f*** the chick/dyke next to you. Good point.
Ok what if we had all women groups. Dont see any problem there.

Next up. The army is and most likely will always be a male dominated area. And lets face it a damn lot of them are stupid dicks who couldnt count to two if they tried. IF a woman is willing to enter this arena, she must be willing to accept everything that comes her way (barring anything like major sexual harrasment or rape) I mean if someone either male or female enters the arena expecting noone to make a snide remark etc really shouldnt be there.

Of course the final nail in the coffin for this argument as someone said above, is that well men are genetically suited to war. Hell yeah, we are more stupid and far more aggressive than women. It brings back that rather trite question "What if women ruled the world?", but to a point has some credit, war and violence is a very male thing. Why should we let women in on a thing that men achieve so admirally well at. It is a point, but does not whatsoever factor that not every human is equal, and that a women would not be willing to do her job on the frontline AND DO IT WELL.

You know it is funny tho. I think half of you would be worried about women in the frontline not because they would do a bad job, hell they could do a damn good job, but rather that YOU would be distracted. Doesnt that say more about you, that the women in your rank cant rely on YOU to do the job properly, rather than the other way around.

Anyway enough from me. In parting, I would like to add that I am neither for women entering or not entering the frontline. In the end it comes down to the crunch. If a woman can be trusted to do the right job just like you men then why cant she be there in the thick of things? Maybe you are all just worried about your ego.....

noone wants to talk about SAS and cA anymore, i only just got back from work to see the s*** i had caused oh well

Thats what I wanted to say but couldn't due to factors beyond my control =) GG Darky =)

i'm not reading this whole thread, cbf atm.
fyi, it was salt pewter that was added to rations during the 2nd world war to stifle libido.
nfi what if anything is added nowadays

LovRat you obviously didn't read to many of the above posts I tried to explain my position without giving women any s*** but that still isn't good enough for a dumbs*** like you.

If your so f***ing smart and know so much about this issue then prove us all wrong and go and do something about it.f*** you haven't added one single valid point to back up the idea that women should be in frontline units.

Just because some member of your family was in in the Army doesn't make you an expert on the topic,far f***ing from it.

I know the job I did it day in day out and yes I do know what the f*** I'm talking about unlike yourself.

I have worked from time to time with women and even the most hardcore of them couldn't cut it with us we had to help them out.THIS IS A f***ING FACT I saw it numerous times with my own eyes.

My sugestion to you is to either shutup or f*** off and find a topic you personaly have a back ground in.

youse are gay

why the hell would any body want to be a grunt at the front line or anywhere in the forces? you get treated like s*** badly payed eat crap food and have to work at a moments notice without over time or any other bonuses. get a job where u get paid well and ure weekends off. but there is a reason why you would want to be a grunt an thats because uve got no skills and want to be shot!

FOR f***S SAKE.
I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST WOMEN. I LOVE CHICKS, I THINK THEY ARE f***ING FANTASTIC.
BUT, PERSONALLY, I WOULD NOT WANT TO SEE A WOMAN BEING HIT BY SEVERAL KILOS OF HIGH EXPLOSIVE TANK SHELL AND BEING BLOWN TO MANY DIFFERENT PIECES.
I WOULD NOT LIKE TO SCRUB MY ARMY UNIFORM CLEAN, THINKING "f***, THAT CHICK (insert female name here) WAS A GOOD CHICK, AND NOW I'M CLEANING HER OFF MY UNIFORM BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO SERVE IN THE FRONT LINE."

werd to that Nailz ;)

Treated like s***? In a combat zone? f*** no. The last thing the Army Commanders want, is their entire fighting force getting pissed off and going AWOL. Bad pay???? I ain't too sure on the pay rates for when a soldier is in combat zone, perhaps Taipan/Strex/Primal could fill us in, but I do know it's a f***ing s***load.

omg gimme 5 star hotels ANYDAY!

:)

You know what the bottom line here is the only reason we are even having this discusion is because some woman or group of women can't stand the thought that there are still jobs out there that they aren't allowed to do.

They can't stand the thought that this is something put aside for men and men only.They must think they are missing something.I would bet my left nut that if those same women were offered frontline jobs they'd say something like this"No thanx I just wanted to know if I wanted to do it the chance is there".

The world is fast becoming a f***ed up place ppl are no longer happy with their piece of cake they want everyone elses to and for no other reason than for the sake of having it.

LOL
Kitten, you lazy mofo, we all know you wouldn't want to be at the front line :P

BOB I would hope they get paid a bit. Dangerous work. But from what I know, general grunts dont get paid an awful amount. As to the treated like s***, I think that Nailz was properbly referring to such wonderful situations as in full metal jacket with squad leaders shouting you down. Dont know if it happens in real life. Sure as hell happens heaps in movies ;)

And anyway, having the crap blown out of you is a close to being treated like s*** as anything I can come up with :)

Hell give me a plane. And let me bomb the f**ckas from above. ;)

NAILZ isn't to far from the truth there it is a s*** job and trust me you don't do it for the cash you do it because you love it.

Bob, nah not lazy, i just like luxury

:)

Goddamn it you are right Taipan!

Lets all cart the women back to their rightful places in front of the kitchen sink. The world would be a much much better place then!

You my friend realise that a woman, if given the oppurtunity, may be better at a job than you, and well you cant stand that can you.

And hell, if someone is stupid enough to want to get their heads blown up over someone elses political/religious dispute, then by all means they should be allowed to join the frontline ;)

True Taipan. But then, if you love it, it isn't a s*** job from your perspective :).

Kitten: Ahahahah! Oh the humanity! :)

You couldn't have loved it THAT much if you left it Taipan =)

Oh dear is my sarcasm showing? Best put that away and hustle out to the kitchen and cook some vittles for my man. I guess thats why I am going out with him and not some pumped up macho f***a I met thru my bro out at Holsworthy eh :P And they weren't even grunts they were Engineers!

Go to bed.

i dont mind ruffing it like camping, oh but the luxury of a 5 star hotel over looking the beach....now thats what i call sweet :)

I don't thnk the point is that women can do a job better then men or not...

My point is that it causes too much trouble between soldiers who have to work as a team...

Women have bad mood swings which always cause trouble, not only for themselves, but for everyone around them...
If they do fuc up and get growled at, they brood about it and don't let it go, also they think males are paying out on them just because they are female...what a load of BS...

Men are easier to work with.. more stable... less maintenance..

Also males work as a team better then females...
Have you ever worked in an office with 30 women??
The amount of bitching and backstabbing is amazeing and most of it is done out of spite...

All that must be said, has been said. To finish off this topic...

WOMEN in COMBAT does NOT WORK.

End of story. End of topic (but I doubt it).

but... but... but... what if...

Righteo ppl, i think i can pretty safely say this thread has dis-integrated into melee... It'll die soon but before it does im gonna go through again, and take all the reasonable posts and whack them down here for easy reading... Sounds good, no? :) Ive ommitted all the posts after a certain point in time coz the argument was getting too heated and noone was making good popints without insulting someone every second sentence... if i stuff up your posts or credit them to the wrong person, soz... here gos...

1.) "i reckon if they have exactly the same standards (i.e. they have to do just as many situps etc) and are stupid enough to want to, they should be allowed."
-Knoted

2.) "They would have to prove themselves as physically fit/strong as men
There could be no special allowances for entry into Infantry as their are no 'special allowances' in battle are there?
They would be raped beyond belief if captured?
Oh did I mention they would be raped? Im serious here too. POW's are treated like s***" - brassOnes

3.)"My opinion? Yes. They should be allowed in the military and in any role that doesn't have specific negative repurcussions for females (and the same applies to males). Not that I know of any such roles but an example might be if they were involved with certain chemicals etc. that might make a woman sterile but not a male. Vice versa applies of course." -Rukh

4.)"This is another thing where people not involved should just butt out.
If you're a woman, and you know the risks of going into front-line combat (ie potential rape as a POW), then it should be your choice to decide if you want to go to the front lines or hang back and support the army the other way.

Society is f***ed because people who have no information or are not influenced by a decision butt their noses into said decision and ruin it for the people it does effect..." - sprayNwipe

5.)"Now just a few facts about women in the army.
1.The standards for fitness is lower than it is for men eg. the baisc fitness test for men while I was in the army was,
5km run in less than 27min (women get 5min extra)
min 7 chin ups (women didn't have to do any)
min 50 sit ups in an alotted time (women did half as much in twice the time)
Now while I don't doubt that there are many women out there willing to do the hard work if they can't pass the same tests that the men have to there is noway they should be in there.
I have always had the belief that mixing men and women in a very stressful job like being in the frontline is a mistake.The presance of women creates rivelry between men and that affects moral so if they are in a frontline job they should be in all female units.Hygene for women is very different for women than men and that alone creates a large ammount of problems(I have been out at times for 3weeks or more without having a shower because the nature of the exercise called for it).
I could go on for ages about why women shouldn't be in the frontline but this post is big enough I will leave you with this thought though.
If you were wounded in the mild of a big s*** fight would you like your life to be in the hands of a 55kg -65kg girl who's only way to save you is to pysicaly pick you up and carry you out.I practiced this with guys wieghing 100kgs like myself and it is one hell of a hard thing to do particularly if they are out cold and a dead wieght."

6.) "'Chain is only as strong as its weakest link.'" -GRutLE

7.) "Wartime objectives can only be completed by a few good men. A section of men who you can trust to do a job. A section will be torn apart by woman who has to have a sanitry shower every 3 days.

There is a strange phenomenon when you are in the bush for extended periods. Average women suddenly become absolute f***ing babes that you would kill your mate in order to root her. It has happened to me, after a long bush excercise I developed an attraction to a medic, but I never would have looked at her twice in a civilian situation.
If a woman was part of a section (9 ppl), then she would no doubt be used as the section ground-sheet, and thus cause jelousy amongst the men - destroying the mateship bond.

This is only one reason, and I could go on forever about all this s***. Just take my word for it.

WOMEN in COMBAT does NOT WORK." -Sgt Strex

8.)"It seems to work fine in the Israeli army doesn't it? As for mentioning *hygiene* and periods - aren't you grasping at straws there Gruntle or whatever the f*** yer name is. Haven't you ever heard of the contraceptive pill and how the amazing leaps in medical technology in the last 30 years means we don't have to HAVE periods if we don't want them. " - LoveRat

9.) "Now loverat I think it is you that needs to do some research.
I have done the job and I'm speaking from experience women are bad for frontline units.War is a hard enough issue to deal without throwing in male/female relations,hygene,training standards and a plethora of other problems.hell when I did my basic training we had to carry packs that wieghed as much as 30-40kgs over distances of more than 20km the girls in training never had to do this and couldn't of don't it.

You mentioned the Israeli and mixing the sexes on the frontline.As we all know this is true but you have to remember that they are never far from all the ammenities of home and don't spend very much time in the field.

As far as taking pills to enable a person to continue in the frontline thats just f***ing ridiculous it's hard enough to resuply units that are in a war situation without adding more things that they need.

I will bet that the real problem here is that some women have a problem with some-one saying that they are not allowed to do something because its the law.Given the chance to actualy do the job those same women would probably say something stupid like "no I don't want to do it I just want the chance to if i felt like it.

One other thing you should try and get your head around is why should men be put at risk in the name of equality.Weak links have a way of being dealt with in the army you only have to read a few book about Nam to see what some soldiers did to officers that put the lives of there men in danger through their incompitance.

A physicaly or mentaly weak person is a liability and would be dealt with harshly if not FRAGGED.While not common it isn't unheard of for weak members of a unit to mysteriouly disapp

"...disappear before,during and after combat.

A saying we are all familiar with "you are the weakest link goodbye" " - Taipan

10.)"I think it's a bad idea having chicks on the front lines. I ask a question to all the guys in this forum. You are in combat. You see a seriously wounder male soldier. You also see a wounded female soldier. Which one would YOU help first?
Be honest." Bob The Fruit

11.)"Hmmm, i think the whole women on the front line thing i think, is a hygene issue. True we do get out period, so we DO need showers more regulary and YES our smell would be a threat.
Judging by male attitudes i'd have to say that they would f*** anything in range, so i guess that in itself would be pretty dangerous. Seeing as Taipan ( I Think) said he's seen units morals fall apart cause of bed hopping s***.

And i'd HATE to imagine what they would do to us if we were caught :( I mean even our days women get brutally raped all the time and we get bottles stuck up there, broken bottles, UGH.

In my opinion some-most girs could handle the situation should we be properly prepared and go through the same s***house trainging males do. But i just don't think it would work.

I know quite a few females in the army. One of my friends just recently got accepted. Girls can acheive anything they put their mind too, but GIRLS ON THE FRONTLINE/IN COMBAT JUST WOULDNT WORK.

Leave all the smarts to us ;)" -necra

12.) Women in 'most' western democratic countries have it pretty good now (as opposed to 30-40 years ago) equality-wise. I get the impression that women just want the *opportunity* to serve in the front line simply for the sake of equality, not becasue there are ,infact, masses of women out there wanting to see frontline action. As you can read from this post, for every theoretical benefit of women being given the opportunity, there are dozen practical drawbacks, so in the end, i think women should be denied this opportunity (not because they don't deserve it, but because it just wouldn't work) -korbs

Thats pretty much all of 'em... Tell me if ive missed any...

Part of the case against women in the front line has nothing to do with women's qualifications whatsoever. I think the point that was trying to be made clear was that just the presence of females would be distracting for the males. ANY factor that causes problems should be removed.

korbs: the point i was making was that people start wars to support their ideals. A REALLY dodgy analogy would be if we used biological warfare to fight wars - we might be fighting for what we believe is right but we fight with things that are wrong. umm.. plz try just to see the good points in that comparison :)

Good post Shooting - I won't start arguing with you over the availability of certain drugs that stop periods like Depo Provera and can be injected once a year. I'm sure me having a valid point isn't good enough for most of the errr geniuses that read this forum.

Necra your argument that women need more showers because they have a period once a month is complete nonsense - what about men with foreskins if we want to get picky!

Major: "Send in the Tactical Dick Cheese Sniffing Dog Squad."

Amazing how any thread on this forum that mentions women just goes right off? I wonder is it a sign that for a lot of the guys that read this forum don't get any other female contact. Which isn't surprising given comments like:

"Also males work as a team better then females...
Have you ever worked in an office with 30 women??
The amount of bitching and backstabbing is amazeing and most of it is done out of spite..."

I worked in the Bureau of Meteorlogy for 12 years - the ratio of men to women in that organisation is around 85% men to 15% women. The reason I liked working there was because I like hanging out with guys. The reason I left my cushy, well paid, public service job was because of the bitching, infighting and political machinations of the MEN in Management.. So don't give me that men don't bitch and backstab line its complete bulls*** =)

Bitching and backstabbing is a people thing not a gender thing. There is an awful lot of it in the male dominated gaming community sn't there - you just have to read these and other gaming forums :P

trog has had no input in this whole topic besides starting it.

What a lame s***-stirrer.

You are learning well apprentice :)

LoveRat you are yet to put up a valid arguement to suport having women in frontline units.

Darkmatter I have not once said that women belong in the home cooking and cleaning so what the f*** are you on about.

Interaction relationship wise is enough to make having women in frontline units unworkable.Having a fling or a relationship in the work place is bad enough without throughing in the fact that your a frontline soldier,this is a problem both men and women create.

LoveRat you said earlier "what if women ruled the world" well men would still be the ones doing the fighting.

The sad thing about the way things are these days is that women themselv'es don't seem to realise how much pull/power they have in areas more important than just being cannonfodder on the frontline.

I have always prefered female teachers,doctors,nurses and for the most part community leaders.Of course there are many positions I have left out but I don't have the time to list them all.Women have in biult abilities in certain areas that have always set them apart from men and no I don't mean cooking and clean because that would be ridiculous anyhow all the best cooks I know are men apart from my Mums cooking.

LoveRat I don't want to spend time flaming eachother over an issue that deserves more thought than comments made from pplz own feelings of unfairness or threats to their ego.This issue is bigger than that and deserves to be treat so.

OK what a crop of s*** just fit for harvesting and choppin down.

Firstly Hats off to Strex and Taipan for some quite telling points early in the piece that swayed me to that line of thinking...

Then again - Strex and Taipan f***ed themselves proverbial ASS with some pathetic agro "girl git in the kitchen and make me some pie" antics. I have since revised my opinion to this :

--------------------------------------------------

It seems obvious women should certainly not be out on the frontline in a TRADITIONAL combat situation.

However, Taipan & Strex 'seem to frontline' a crowd who admit that females have "other superior qualities" but these seem to be limited to HAVING BOOBS, WORKING IN ADMIN (typing perhaps?), GETTING TANS, FILING NAILS, STUDYING FEMINIST CANT, COMPACTING EARTH WITH THEIR BACKS and generally trying to do Men's Work as some sort of powertrip. Taipan states - "The world is fast becoming a f***ed up place ppl are no longer happy with their piece of cake they want everyone elses to and for no other reason than for the sake of having it"

f*** me tai, that sounds like some ger'stah'poe s***e to me. Who are you to tell me (or anyone else for that matter) WHAT CAKE I CAN OR CANT f***ING HAVE and also what brand of cake is yours and not public domain - :D

Haha!

BUT WHAT DO I REALLY THINK : I think that it may be time for the Army to evolve to the point where women can "contribute" to the army (Note I didnt say devolve)

This DOESN'T mean women should be trying to BE A MAN in the soldier's role, which historically and traditionally was designed for men, by men. It means if females want to be in the army then they damn well should figure out new ways to war with their own specific attributes and their own brand of superior abilities.

That would mean an ARMY with a MORE skills, MORE tactics that aren't restricted to the same old male based genre. I know that if you have been in the army then you will be able to appreciate that any additional edge on top of the skills you already have, that may turn defeat into victory, would be welcome, no?

What are these new tactics and skills I hear you ask?? f***s me... Im not in the army, nor does it appear that the army geared to research ways to utilize womens own brand of talents. The first country to do so tho, may find themselves with a military edge over everyone else... then again they may not! But IF YA DONT GO YOU WILL NEVER KNOW! Just don't go about it the same way as before... trying to turn women into male soldiers - I cant think of anything worse.

(spleen vented - ciggee time. Feel free to reply - it would be nice to get some feedback, not some childish flames)

Dylan / Kuffs OUT /Tango Alpha Beta Eggtimer #click#

Btw Typodemon "... I would imagine that they could mount bombs on the back of dogs to charge into the enemy masses they would ..." - You farny farker :)))

Kuffs women do make a great contribution the the forces f*** what rock have you been living under.Do you have any idea how many soldiers it takes to put one frontline soldier in the feild and then keep him there.

Australia has something like 30,000 soldiers only 5,000 of them are frontline all the rest are needed to suport them,of those there are heaps of women in many varied roles.Where that hell do ppl get the idea that women don't contribute they have been for years just not in Infantry,Arty or Armoured and a couple of other smaller roles.

The list of jobs women currently do in the army is f***ing dam near endless and they are only excluded from only a few.Don't you think if everyone thought it was a good idea to add women to fighting roles it would of been done long before now.

Exactomundo what I was about to say Taipan :)

Everyone please remember that we are talking about women in combat and how there is no logical reason for it to take place :)

It depends on if they are supposed to fight like a man is trained to fight. But maybe there will be a fighting style that would be perfect for women... if only it were researched perfected and implemented for this day and age.

Dylan Kuffs

Arty = artillery?

oh thats right... i forgot your head is comfortably in the sand....

I honestly dont want to start off the flaming again, but assuming there WAS a way in which women could be bought to perform adequately or even excel in frontline combat, there are two things that remain obstacles (these apply to combat roles in the RAN and RAAF too, BTW)

1.) Group Dynamics. You might not like it, you might just blame it on men, but one way or another, men are, by no real choice of thier own, genetically COMPELLED to go around spreading thier DNA in every which way they can... I mean really, i could turn the whole argument upside down and moan about how men are made to be slaves to thier reproductive drives (DAMN EVOLUTIONARY MECHANICS!! :) ) and we wish it could be otherwise, but it isnt... So, even though it isnt womens faults, they will split apart otherwise tightly-bound groups of men without even meaning to...

2.)The Body Count. Everyone (almost) raves about equal opportunities now, but once the first women comes back in a body bag, everybody will stand around in slack-jawed stupification for a while, then go NUTS. That simple. People who demanded equality yesterday will today blame the government for putting our 'daughters, sisters, sweethearts' etc etc in the line of fire... I honestly believe that. People are very fickle, 'specially when they can hide in anonymity amongst a mob...

Thats my two cents (yet again :) ) fell free to present your rebuttals... :)

Yah, good point LoveRat, girls in the title guarantees response. Silly yes, but *ehh* whatcha gonna do? :)

Kuffs: Swearing and angst makes you look stupid (not insulting you, its true) try it without. also as for your womens special tactics thing, this isnt computer games or anime man, theres no ninja moves or anything going on in fights. Its beating each other to death with rifle butts and entrenching tools at close range, or shooting from distances...

Oh and BTW Strex and Taipan have never seriously implied that girls belong in the kitchen, bedroom etc... dont put words in thier mouths.

AS for swearing and anger... i spend most this thread laughing. I only used swearwords in keeping with the ettiquite set by previous posts... including your idols strex and taipan.

A lot of what I said is tongue in cheek, and meant to be in keeping with the open community nature of this rather ridiculous thread. It takes a keen mind to appreciate it I'm afraid - you may have missed it ;)

As for ninja tactics, ahah whatever - thats you putting words in mouths (hypocritical?)

For eg: Maybe women are better snipers due to performing well under pressure, or what ever. Let me emphasis that is an example before you crazy man-bitchaz start goin awf.

I am quite aware this isnt a computer game... I just think that if you dont look above your horizon you will be caught spouting outdated s*** (obligatory swear word) for the rest of your life and maybe miss evolving to the next level.

Im all for concerted RESEARCH to see whether women have more than a support or admin role in our defence forces... What is the problem with that?

Pull your head outa the sand and your hand off ya todger and look into the future... scary huh?

Dylan/Kuffs

Um... Whatever, dude.

Umm, kuffs - how about actually addressing some of the arguments brought up by taipan and strex? It's all fine to say waffly things like your 'misogynist dinosaur' line etc, but do you have anything specific to suggest? I thought we were trying to have a proper debate where we had actual POINTS and not generalisations that are not very applicable. BE SPECIFIC. I could snip out your entire last post as being irrelevant and there wasn't a single useful argument in there. (the line about snipers seems OK until you realize that apparently they would be smelt 100m away).

Come on, don't just say 'we should all be equal'. You should say stuff like 'we are equal and women can do just as well as men in this role because...' and have some specific reasons, not just 'females are just as good as males!'. Females and males are NOT equal and it is fully expected due to their biological differences that there are applications where one is more suited over the other. It's very inescapable.

Yah and on another note, whats wrong with women having kids?! Its the perpetuation of the human race were talking about, why should they try denying that its the primary (biological) purpose of women...? Nothing embarrasing if you ask me.

I suppose it's inevitable that humans reach a stage where they try to evolve themselves beyond what they have reached by normal biological means. You might say 'geezus! no sex in future society! we all grow in bottles!' but you gotta think about how your current biology effects the way you think. It's very scary and seems inhuman but (me being in a philosophical mood) you have to work out what the ultimate motivators for self-controlled evolution are? It seems some more radical feminists are really just interested in 'unifying' the sexes and turning humans in to some sort of non-gender species.

You gotta decide whether people can and should have such a gender division which introduces UNAVOIDABLE differences, and whether the two sexes can live with that. In this particular argument it is starting to show. Should the people with the 'problem' just accept it? (since it is unavoidable after all).

bah oh well that was getting quite off topic and very silly but i have an exam in a few hours so i am desperate to find distractions :) Maybe we should use robots or genetically engineered creations to fight for us :)

war is war, and if you want to go get killed, i say go for it.

You don't go there to get killed, you go to kill the enemy. It's like that quote 'your job is not to die for your country, but to make the enemy die for theirs'.

Refer to the 'weakest link' argument somewhere above.

I heard a awesome quote today ...

"Funny I always thought the main point about the ADF was that it is a huge team, you use the right people in the right spots to get the job done right in the first place. You do not use the guy built like a prop in a half back role, and you dont use half backs as props."

back to top!

Let this topic die now.

Mission Completed trog.

I concur. :)

notice that the words "kitchen" and "cooking" were not mentionined untill a woman posted them? jus cause a man doesnt want women in the frontline doesnt mean they want them in the kitchen ffs.

brining that up was just a lame attempt to stir s***.
also reason why i didnt post until now is cause i dont know a awful lot about the military, so i didnt goto stir s***. i dont think that any of the women that posted on this thred have any more of a clue than i do about exactly how being in the frontline is like.

i thought just maybe this was relevant..

A subtle message that we are broken somehow? :)