Hey, I just went and saw one of the Collins-class subs in the river. It was open to the public for some promo gig or something.

Anyway, after waiting in line for about 5 hours (mainly because of all the fat / old / very young people trying to climb down the hatch) I got to have a walk around inside.

I can safely say the cost was worth it. There is so much, well, STUFF inside it's unbeleivable. Forget all that roominess you see in the movies too, it's twice as tight as that even (this could be because the yankie subs are twice the size, but still, it's f***en cramped). I was seriously suprised that the fat people could even MOVE once inside.

The engine room itself is huge, but like the rest of the boat it's chocka. 3 x 18 cylinder diesel engines power the batteries for the main 5.4MW motor. Moves at around 50km/hr apparently.

We weren't allowed into the control room or the torpedo room unfortunatly, so I can't tell you bout the cool bits / bombs in there.

Anyway, just thought somebody might be intrested.

Oh, and they just won some award from the yanks because they couldn't find our sub in some excercise they did not long ago ($3 billion later our subs work like they should).

*yawn*

they couldn't find it cause it was in dry dock... or on a public demonstration day...

hahahahahahahaha

that was a good call

I reckon they didn't really try to find it, just to lead us into thinking that they are actually half decent ;)

hehehe yeah prolly
as if their stealth nuclear subs couldnt find a loud ass diesel powered sub full of aussies listening to Jimmy Barnes while the drink XXXX
go the aussie defencr force!

they prolly had a diver swimming around pretending to be a submarine or sommin

they prolly had a minisub and the aussie's actually ran into it and didn't notice like a dick head in a car park

hehehe yeah, he had Whale sounds playing aswell, and he swam right upto the sub and put a Tag on it
hehehe military vandalism is cool

LoL

this has inspired me to watch U-571

yeah... you could watch U-571
OR, u could find yourself some of the initiation tapes for the Navy
always good for a laugh!

Or down periscope heh

That loud aussies listening to jimmy barnes and drinking XXXX call was a good one =0

hehehe yeah down periscope is a good laugh
mmm lauren holly when she wears the small uniform :)

imagine that chef from down periscope in one of collins class POS :)

ppl who say the australian submarines are anywhere near good are kidding themselves and know s*** about submarines.

the only thing that is good about diesel subs is that on batteries they are quiet, very quiet.
well not our subs.
and i am still owndering just how they couldnt find our sub, maybe they couldnt tune their sonar to aussies sculling beer.

i think they are very brave to work on a submarine that could sink at any moment

war is a tragedy
i know of no one who would say otherwise

anyone know what US sub was involved?
like the class?

Well, some scientists might both agree and disagree, as many technological advances have come as a result of warfare. Look at how the airplane has evolved due to combat. But the loss of human life makes it unjustifiable...

cool post knoted, gr8 info

nobody carse tho, I just felt like writing :)

5 hours in line??, NAH, i just flash my army i.d. and get taken to the front of the line...

Also they let you see the "off limit" rooms as they can't help it, defence force peaple luv showing thier new shiny weapons of mass destruction to other defence force peaple..

I think it comes under the "my gun is bigger than yours" rule..

Sif the Collins Class subs are the biggest pieces of s***.
They couldn't defend our coastline from a pack of f***ing unarmed fishing boats.

The americans couldn't find the sub, and neither could we, cause it probably f***ing sunk during the exercise.

man someone used the words "weapons of mass destructin"
when reffering to the collins class submarine

even if they did target some fishing boats , they prob couldnt hit it.

Aahahahah!!
Yeah, actually, I thought that there was something wrong with the torpedoes (or) torpedo tubes or something and that they couldn't properly launch torps.

Ummm, to all the people uneducatedly slagging off the Collins subs should pull their heads out of their arses and stop spouting off crap ad hoc that they get from our tabloid newspapers.

I just went and saw it this morning, and the people working in the thing were very confident about its abilities and performance.

As for the exercise with American ships, it wasn't just that the Yanks couldn't find our sub, it was the fact that if it had been a real situation - our so-called 'useless' Collins class submarine would have taken down, as in sunk, an aircraft carrier.

Apart from all that, the subs are passive anyway - they are intelligence gathering machines - not battle subs. Jam-packed with sonar equpment.

The diesel engines are only used near the surface when they can extend a snorkel - and are only there to charge the massive batteries. So all the fuss about them being too noisy is just bulls***. Actually in the sub are signs and pamphlets everywhere telling people to be as quiet as possible closing doors etc because 'the threat is real'.

On a last note, the subs are the most automated / computerised subs in the world, much more so that even the largest Russian / Yank nuclear machines.

Educate yourself and form your own opinion people. Don't just blab the crap Packer / Murdoch media firms pump out.

Probably too much to ask.


Oh well

As for the exercise with American ships, it wasn't just that the Yanks couldn't find our sub, it was the fact that if it had been a real situation - our so-called 'useless' Collins class submarine would have taken down, as in sunk, an aircraft carrier.

So the Americans used an Aircraft carrier in the exercise?
Well isn't that good. Looks like we'll be safe if attacked by a huge fleet of aircraft carriers.
If they had used a Destroyer to hunt the sub (which is what Destroyers are made for) then I would have been impressed. But it's a known fact that Aircraft Carriers aren't sub hunters.

And so what if it looked good sitting in the dry dock???
Did you actually see any proof that it actually ISN'T noisy and useless????

BOB, a few things.

1. It is not sitting in a dry dock, it is in the water.

2. The exercise was not 1 Collins class submarine vs 1 aircraft carrier. Aircraft carriers do not move / work alone. They have things called 'battle groups'. Therefor - there are a s***load of American ships and subs in the water, our Australian sub had the capability and opurtunity to take out the aircraft carrier - probably one of the most expensive things on te water.

3. Noise - why are you more willing to slag on something you have no personal experience with, just because of what you've read in the paper / heard on the radio, over what the people who actually work with the things are saying?

Just sounds like you are trying to be ignorant to me. Have fun.


Oh well

Good one bob :p

The aircraft carriers are worth a lot of money. I read somewhere that they are always accompanied by a submarine wherever they may be. When the ship is in port the sub goes off to do some shallow water manouvers

considering the los angeles class subs used by the US have sonars so powerful they can hear the heartbeat of a whale from some insanely stupid idstance i dont think they would have any trouble pickin up a diesel sub..i mean s*** they make a fuk load of noise unless on batteries an even then u can hear the cavitation noises if the captain f***s up

also i highly doubt a single sub would sink a 90,000 ton carrier..i mean s*** ud need like 20+ torpedoes into the fukin thing just to sink it even then uve got no chance of gettin off more then 4 torps b4 the destroyer escorts would be over ur ass.

the americans were prolly so freakin lazy they stayed home an hired some poor fisherman in his 20foot boat to go find the sub
yay - job well done

ok a carrier can take 2 torpedo hits at least, with out having major damage.
how long u reckon the collins class will last after the 2 LA class subs hear those torps, not to mention the 2 to 3 planes/helis in the air, and the destroyers.

the minute they hear the first 2 torpedos , they have his position, then its just a matter of time,
not to mention they would prob need at least 6 well placed torps

If the support for the aircraft carrier had spread out looking for the sub, the sub could easily have sank the aircraft carrier before the Americans could pinpoint and target the sub...

It is NOT a diesel sub, it is an electric sub. They only use to diesal engines to charge batteries! f***en huge batteries at that. I have no idea how long they can go without recharging but they're big.

It can travel (looks at brochure :) 9000NM in one trip, not to shabby in my opinion.

Anyway, who care's if it takes 50 f***en torps to kill a carrier, the fact our sub can even get close enough to a shoot is something. (Oh, you should read this book by Payne Harrison called "Thunder of Erebus". Yanks and Russkies have a war, lots of cool hardware (military hardware dips***s), etc etc, it's a good story as well)

As much as everyone loves to bag our government (including me sometimes), they aren't that stupid they would spend that amount of money if it didn't work how it was supposed to. Even if it meant spedding a f***load more to get it working (which they had to), it would work.

damn my grammer is crap sometimes...

It would take several torps to fully sink a carrier.
But, as soon as the first torp is launched all the battle groups destroyers and subs would instantly know where the enemy sub is and would destroy it in no time.

Our defence force isn't the worst, but it isn't fantastic. And that s***s me. Because we have such a large f***ing coast line that we can't adequately (sp?) defend. I just know that if some mother f***ers try to invade then there is jack s*** that our 3 or so Collins Class subs are going to do.

You do realise they'd have to triangulate to get its exact location? And they'd probably have to turn around too? They were out looking for it, meaning they probably spread out around the aircraft carrier. If the sub stopped its engines and waited for the aircraft carrier to move near enough(assuming it wasn't anchored), they could easily avoid detection and get behind the enemy's defense.

HEY, that U-571 sub blew up a destroyer with ONE torpedo so cop that
HA!!!

yeah because making a simple triangulation
from 2 subs a destroyer and a few other sonabouys in the water that are all comunicating to each other , would take less than a second for the traingulation to occur and for them to have a distance and direction.

Yeah, but they'd have to make communications to do it. The aircraft carrier would report getting the incoming torpedoes being fired, the destroyers, subs and s*** would then triangulate and fire on the target, by which time our sub has probably loaded its torpedo tubes again and fired. You're thinking they'd open fire the second they see a something that isn't one of theirs, but they actually have to follow protocol.

Eds, that was in WW2 :P

Destroyers are fast attack ships, designed to hunt down subs.
They can easily catch a sub and destroy it.

They would know where the sub was from the moment it fired.
Not from when the Carrier gets hit.

Yeah, I figured that and edited it.

well, they wouldnt have much hope finding it after the carrier was hit becuase it would have blown up

BOOM

Also, if the enemy fleet knows it's in dangerous waters, the the whole crew would be on alert to begin with.
Most likely they torps would be fired and the Carrier or another support ship would launch counter measures moments later.
The torp would be destroyed and the sub would then get proper f***ed.

a carrier would not have blown up after 2 torpedo hits
prob at best
they hit the propellor and is dead in the water.
if they do enough damamge they can root it so no more planes can land, but def not go "boom"

Yeah, Carriers are rather hardcore, but you could immobilise it.
Although I'm sure an Exocet missile or 2 would extremely f*** up a Carrier.
See if I can find a pic...

Well, I can't really add any more to the conversation other than what I have already said.

The ability of the other craft in the water to pinpoint our sub and take it out is up to debate seeing as no-one here discussing the matter knows what positions etc were like. I'd say the sub would be pretty f***ed though.

All I know is that our sub was considered to have 'won' the game.


Oh well

That's probably because the Americans were using this
to search for our sub.

I think you're being a little harsh.


Oh well

Har har har!

actually they dont have to turn to engage the sub

all they do is turn the ASROC (sp?) launcher and shoot a nice little torpedo to the location of the sub
which btw takes about 1/10 of a sec to triangulate after the s*** hits the fan an torps go flying..bang ASROC fires..20 secs later collins is on a voyage to bottom of ocean

besides it would take a minute or so to reload the torpedo..they r like 5m long or so ....pretty freakin huge

the best thing to do i shoot the propellors off the carrier..there r 4 of them on the US carries, witht that done the carrier is useless cause he cant move an it also cant launch aircraft since it cant point its bow into the wind for flight ops.

btw props r weak...1 torp to hit each an its riuined

but sinking it u'll need a lot more then that

How many torpedo tubes does the Collins class sub have? If it has four or more, they could fire on all four props and cripple the aircraft carrier, before the destroyers had a chance to counter-attack...

You are saying it would take no time to find the sub. Sure, it wouldn't, but remember on top of the water the boats, Carriers, Destroyers, Crusiers, whatever, there are only 2 dimentions involved. A boat on the ocean is at sea level, no matter where on the ocean it is.

A sub, however, has 3 dimentions. It can find it, sure, but then they have to actually get close enough to fire something which will be able to hit it acuratly enough to do anything, which would be damn hard with currents, water resistance, etc.

And about it been loud, I really doubt it. As has been said above, they don't run their diesels underwater. That would be very stupid.. engines use air remember.

Most subs have multiple Torp tubes too, I have no idea how many a Collins has.. a quick check says 6 bow tubes... so it could have launched, say 5, just to be safe, torps, and be reloading, before the enemy has any idea whats happening. After that, its probably screwed, but 5 torps has alot of destructive power. That could probably be enough to sink a Carrier, and almost definetly enough to sink a Destroyer.

People go on and on about how terrible our millitary is.. yet I hear in other places how respected or millitary is. There is nothing for them to do.. so no-one knows what they are like. Why is it if we are so bad, that we go and help out in heaps of wars/conflicts (PNG, Iraq, etc)??



Personally I think people listen to the media too much. I don't watch the news any more.

It would take several torps to fully sink a carrier.

You don't specifically need to sink a carrier to make it useless - if the launch deck gets scrapped, its just so much useless metal. Carrier groups usually have uber defence though; if you can take out a full carrier group you're doing pretty well.

Speaking of aircraft carriers, I was down in Sydney when that last one pulled into Sydney harbour - I was so stoked, because they were letting people on. We went down to the harbour and there were just THOUSANDS of people there; needless to say we got there late and missed out (I was most pissed, because I really wanted to see an F-14 up close and get on the deck and just generally look around). I took a few pictures which some of you may find interesting.

For the most part, our military is good in terms of quality, but not in quantity. Things like the Collins class subs being defective are part of the few exceptions to this rule.

Messiah, I believe they use sound trackers in torps these days.
So, they fire the torp to the approx location of a sub, and have it arm say...500mtrs before it gets to that location, the torp them becomes active and will trace and cavitation in the water and home in on it.
I think.
f***, I dunno. I hate the navy. Pack of fags.

good work on the pictures trog

rcsgd (does that mean anything btw?), thats why they spent so much more getting the things working.

It doesn't really matter though, 1 sub isn't going to stand a chance against a battle group regardless.

They could f*** up flight ops pretty good if they had a bit of luck, but it would still be a suicide mission.

Go read that book btw, it's got all sorts of intresting s*** on this topic.

Yeah, it means something, but I'd get banned for explaining it...

oh ok...

trog: its hard to hit the launch deck with a torpedo

*also when a sub fires torpedoes it immediately goes to flank speed an gets the fuk outta there
*when that happens u get massive cavitation (where air bubble burst around the propellor an create big bad noises) they r easy to find when subs cavitate
*and the ASROC can fire further then a torpedo can ...its acutally a torpedo with a rockt motor on the back so that it can be launched a few kms then go underwater drop the rocket engine an more with its ownz properllor..an i have not doubt that they wouldnt hit

*also all the ships in the fleet will be trailing large towed sonars that r under the water an a few kms behind the ship
these things r really powerul as well an server to detect anything tryin to get in behind them
*an since these r underwater surface conditionns dont affect them at all
*and when u do fire a torpedo u have to flood the tube which makes a noise
*then u fire the torp which makes a nice whirring niose as the little torp goes flying
*as soon as this happen u gett pinged to death by the active sonar which doesnt rely on noise..it ust bounces signals off the air inside the sub an gives ur position
*then they fire a s***e load fo torps at u
*then u sink away...never to rise

*also as to us fighting in wars..in iraq we sent over 200 troops an 2 ships thats all
*an Timor it was our army
*which is actually quite good, i mean s*** we have leopard 1's which r nice tanks an aug's which r damn fine assault rifles

And the reason they don't have active sonar on all the time is because it's noisy, and gives away the users position.
And yes, flooding torpedo tubes does make alot of noise.
Of course, if the battle group was serious, they would probably have HunterKiller subs in front, behind and to both sides of the fleet. HK's are fast and made to search and destroy enemy subs.

We all know that as soon as they fired they'd be pretty much f***ed, nobody is arguing about that.

Heheh ... Are you guys military experts or something?!

1) the AUG is a good assault rifle?! Have you ever fired it? Ever fired it in adverse conditions? As soon as it gets a LITTLE bit dirty even just from carbon build up, you have IA stoppages very often. And usually not just a re-cock and keep going - sometimes you get a double feed, with the ejected cartridge stuck in the ejection slot. That takes a fair time to clear. As soon as you put mud into the picture, good luck in firing. Try bolt-assisting EVERY shot then ...
WHAT AN EXCELLENT RIFLE!!!

I'll take a 7.62 SLR or even a M16 over a Stery AUG nearly anyday.

And on the topic of the subs, remember this. Yes, the sub may get a shot or 4 off to the carrier or battle group. However, don't you think they would have figured the tactics first? As in, gone for the destroyers, or the other subs first and bugged out and come back later for another attack? Subs TOO have countermeasures. They can hide behind rocks, underwater mountains etc. It doesn't take much to make a sub "dissapear". However, yes i agree, it would be a practical suicide mission. More like a sniper vs a company. Sure enough, he'll take out a small number of personnel, but eventually he will be found and killed by them. And as pointed out before, the use of the collins class is not to destroy other vessels but to gain intelligence. It remains super quiet with the new screws it is being fitted with, and running on battery power (quieter than American Nuclear subs). It is fitted out with a lot of electrical reconaissance equipment, much like a high-tech spy plane.

Bah, now im back off to my 4000 words Geog Assignment ... Damn BSc.

L8r!

ok picture this
2 la class subs and the rest of the carrier battle group.
they know there is only 1 sub in the area.
u detect a torpedo launch, all the surface boats start active pinging straight away, because the noise of them anyway gives there positions away.
so u have many surface boats actively pining and the 2 la class subs take a pot shot each into the direction of the sub, they leave the cable on to guide it a while , set it to ping actively about where they pin pointed his position.
then the torpedo does all the work from there
and with the torpedos the yanks use now , that sub has no chance

OI Nik nak
If the F88 AUSStyer jammed on you it is pbl because you can't mantain it correctly.
The only reason of prolonged stoppages a recorded on water operations that is why SF troops also have a choice of weapons with the the M-16A2 for use on water ops.
The F88 is regarded as one of the finest asault rifle in the world.I have trained soldiers to use weapons on many levels from recruit to trained soldier, and find it an easy weapon to teach and have employed correctly by all levels of soldier.

Cry havoc and let slip........

id still take an mp5, spec forces around rthe world have proven it to be one hC weapon

and as for the sub hiding....do u know how hard it is to stop something that weighs maybe 3,000 tons

think of a boat...a little 10m boat..ur going full throttle an u turn off the engine..u keep coasting forwards for a short distance
mulitly that by about a 1000 an got how far ull keep moving in a collins
even if u put he engine into reverse to stop urself thats gonna be even worse..then u'll get huge cavitation noises

umm what u also don't realise is that the main aim of the win conditions probably wasn't to try and sink a aircraft carrier. they probably just had the chance

yes the yanks battle fleets are huge. and are great. but a sub sin't going to go for teh a/c first. more like the other subs or destroyers first.

and even then they do have heaps of techniques for hiding. and counter measures. and as for reload times. sure the things might be 5 meters but odds are that it is all automated and might take all of 1 - 5 mins max. and then if they were in close they might try sutn or just stay hidden.

i mean i forget who said it, but there are some smaerty men who would have thought of this formt eh subs side of the argument.

on a side note. the aus army is highly respected around the world and in terms of quality i think we got int eh top3 armys in the world. i think the others were the isreali's and teh americans.

Subs in our theater of war would manly only be used to sink the odd Indonesian destroyer, or supply boats.

Any sub who was single handly trying to sink a carrier group, is f***ed ...

Unless your objective is to make the americans angry that you sank a carrier ... Then it is worth it.

I reckon they should put deck guns back on subs, how ballsey would that be - "yeh, we reckon we're soooooo good at this submarine warfare s***, we're gonna surface and come up and shoot at you with this baby."

while sitting in our deckchairs

=P

All I will say is: Weapons of Mass Destruction.
They would more than make up for our competent yet small defense force.
Oh and as for the so called Indonesian threat I say hahaha. You have got to be kidding if you think they could even get close to Australia. First off there are loads of spy satellites orbiting the Earth right now, most of which are extremely high resolution and apparently can read the text on a phonebook from very far away. Even though most of the satellites that cover Australia are owned by America (we are too poor), they would, under obligation from the various treaties we have, give us any intelligence information they thought necessary. Obviously a large invasion force gathering would attract the attention of these satellites and the US would hopefully be telling us well in advance of them getting here. Secondly, Indonesia has far too many internal problems to be bothered with attacking our god forsaken country anyway.

I wouldnt discount anything from a nation that is only 80km from australia, and likes to colour in australia the same colour as there own contry

Does anyone know if this sub is still around? I'd love to go look at it.

But it's a known fact that Aircraft Carriers aren't sub hunters.

Wha? carriers have S-3A Vikings, which are basically dedicated submarine killing machines. They've also got HS-4 Sea King choppers, which do the same thing. Submarines have a hard time shooting back at aircraft, although they do carry, I think, some Stinger SAMs or something - but this obviously requires surfacing.

trog - Saturday was sub open day, Sunday was invite day. I don't think you'll get to see it I'm afraid.

As for Indonesia - when I was having a chat to the guy who had giveen us the tour, after everyone else had toddled off, I asked him about what sort of things they get up to etc - what they are out there for. I specifically joked about Indonesia not being much of a threat and he retorted with 'the biggest threat is believing there is no threat'. So, I guess Australia considers them a threat even if the general populace doesn't.


Oh well

hunter: ur also forgetting the fact that the US has a few military bases in teh centre of OZ..places that no australian person is allowed to visit - not even johhny howard

the NSA - national security agency has a base to monitor its satillites - thats the only 1 that i know what it is

so i think if anyone made a play for our fair land America would fuk them up quick smart

And as pointed out before, the use of the collins class is not to destroy other vessels but to gain intelligence

Woohoo, that means they can say "Oh ah...there's some bigass battle fleet comming towards us." Great, that makes me feel alot better in case we are ever attacked. Means we are given extra time to kiss our asses goodbye.

Trog, you know what I mean. They don't send out carriers to hunt down subs.

I don't know why we are all arguing about this. These days, any major war wouldn't see people sending in troops and fleets of battleships, it would see the fueling and launching of ICBMs.
Hooray for nuclear armageddon.

yeah, cause you all obviously know what you're talking about and arent just making s*** up or anythin. You've all done genuine research and have been in the navy and im an Admiral so dont question what i say i know exactly how many torpedoes it takes to sink an aircraft carrier.....

i know exactly how many torpedoes it takes to sink an aircraft carrier

No you don't.

you want an awesome book, all about submarines and s*** like that, and its really informative as well as being a good read. although nothing is on the collins class subs, it gives you heaps of information on american nuclear subs. the book is Tom Clancy's "SSN" its great.

MIMEO: carriers r 90,000 tons
do u think a weapon that is 5m long na maybe a couple of tons would hurt it to badly..i dont

the US arent to bothered about subs sinking their carrier hence the majority of their fleet is designed to defeat massive clusters of anti-ship missiles

the AEGIS system which taiwan is tryin to buy is the 'crown' of the US fleet.. its a nice system that can track an engage 100 targets simultaneously. each carrier battle group has 2 such AEGIS cruisers for defence..these fukers cost a few billion each..o an add to that each fleet also has a few AEGIS destroyers that r nearly as good..that is the main axis of defence not for underwater

so no i dont think they care for our pissy subs

i guarantee they were being nice to us since they want our help in the future

Rastis - On the F88 ...

What rank are you and what unit are you in? What training appointments have you had?

If the F88 is considered so damn good, then i shudder to think what a bad rifle is. I maintained the rifle excellently, yet it still has IA's. The locking lugs on the bolt sleeve (the three little knobules that lock onto the bolt) break easily - 4 of us out of 12 on an excercise had to get new ones, after firing only about 400 rounds.
I will take a M203 anyday. And someone suggested an MP5 ... They don't have a clue really - the MP5 is a 9mm weapon which is designed for close quarter combat. It is a subsonic round, which will only penetrate one person and usually (hopefully) not leave an exit wound - as in the case that a terroist might be holding a hostage or such. It isn't a rifle, its a sub-machinegun, and as such, has a totally different use.

However, on the F88, when it gets fitted with 40mm grenade launchers, THEN i will put it up with the better rifles in the world...

Catchya!

A sub getting close enough to fire upon a ship no matter if it hits it or not is a huge blow to the american navy. Basically it should not happen. So reguardless of how many topedos it takes, how many subs tehre are, how many support ships are there, its a major dissapointment to the US.