ok i know there was a thread on this movie a week ago but i hadnt seen it then.

ok the movie is fatally flawed. If the pre-cog hadn't predicted that tom cruise was going to kill that guy, then he never would have been put onto the path of tracking him down and killing him. therefore the pre-cog is changing the future, not predicting it. if u know what im talking about u know what im talking about, otherwise dont ask me for another explanation.

it just completely destroys the plot.

s***test movie ive seen in a long time. plot was so bad - seems like any excuse to use futuristic special effects will do these days.

I think you're just grasping at straws and you are gay. I get what you mean, but I dont see how it instantly makes the plot crap. The pre-cog sees that in the future, Tom Cruise is going to kill that guy. Then, Tom Cruise kills that guy. All the pre-cog is doing is reading the future, I fail to see how its "creating" or changing the future just with that prediction. Yes, its the prediction that makes tom cruise then go and actually try and find the guy, but how is that wrong? Thats just part of the string of events that leads up to him shooting the guy...

I think you just can't enjoy cool movies, I pity you.

Now i don't wonna see it now.


not. i reckon this movie is gonna rock, (still haven't seen it ofcoarse)

Yeah, it fully rocks, one of the best movies I've seen for a while (along with Spiderman of course).

u obviously dont understand khel...

tom cruise WASNT going to kill the guy. He was completely ignorant of the guy's existence until the precog made him aware.

Therefore it WASNT the future. If the precog hadnt predicted anything (which it shouldnt have) then tom cruise would just be going about his daily business and would never have been in the room with the guy as well as the precog (if u remember the precog is in the future vision of the murder).

This is one big f***ing straw if u ask me.

And stop trying to be so condescending towards me - i made an opinion on the movie. Maybe i could forgive u for getting offended if your name was Steven Spielburg...but you're not. So i pity you for taking any critism on a scifi movie so personally offending.

i personally thought it was a great movie. remember, the pre-cogs are human, humans have flaws, therefore errors occur.

also remember, the murder that the precog saw only showed that - the murder, it didnt show the chain of events leading up to it, therefore, im guessing tom was originally set up in a different way than what eventually happened which leaded him to killing the guy, and after seeing the future (as with every other precrime) he proceeded to change the future. if you say. wait a minute, the precog was at the scene of the crime, it doesnt matter, she could have gotten there another way, in this world, once the future has been seen by the people other than the precogs, it can be changed.

geddit?

oh and btw, u answered your own question


"I fail to see how its "creating" or changing the future just with that prediction. Yes, its the prediction that makes tom cruise then go and actually try and find the guy"


you state that u fail to see how the precog changes the future, and then u go on to say that the precog makes tom cruise go and find the guy. think about it - im right.

the movie was extremely shallow if u ask me.

This movie sounds like it needs to be wateched twice to get the full and real story from it, just like the matrix (well thats the case for me anyway :) )

now i think you're the one grasping at straws fork :P

ok well ive had enough of this conversation. i was just stating my view on the movie and khel being the elitest scifi guru that he is is quickly turning it into a flame thread.

i still believe the movie was f***ed. think what u like.

i am not grasping at straws, you just dont understand the plot

Khel is right, it is the vision that makes tom find out who this guy is, but it doesnt change the fact that the one who organised it (i forget the characters name) definately would have organised a way for tom to meet him, he wouldnt get some guy to say yes, ill die for the sake of my family and then not go through with it.and it is this meeting which leaded up to the murder (which coincidentally was the same as what actually happened) that the precog saw
(well thats one possibility)

yeah, thats what I was getting at. The whole chain of events leading up to the murder was already laid out. Tom cruise seeing the pre-cog's vision was part of the chain of events leading up to the murder, sure you could say "but if he didn't see that vision, he wouldn't have ended up murdering the guy" but thats just an if. Thats like saying what if the guy at the start had gone to work instead of waiting around, he wouldn't have murdered his wife. "What ifs" mean nothing.

And I'm just sick of people bagging movies like this for no good reason. I bet if it was some indepedant foreign film made by an unknown director you'd be all over it, but since its a big budget hollywood sci fi film it can't POSSIBLY be any good.

You comment of

plot was so bad

still makes no sense to me. Personally I thought the plot was awesome, one of the more original plots I've seen in a movie recently, kept me hooked right up to the end.

precogs are independent of the world. they do not interact they just spit out the future. the precog making that prediction is becoming a part of the world.

i dunno this is all getting too confusing now.

i felt the plot was weak because they just have these people from nowhere that tell the future. children of drug addicts yadda yadda yadda. its like they sat there and thought "hmm where should these precogs come from?" and came up with the lamest out-of-nowhere origin possible.

ok thats all for good this time. not even going to open this thread again :)

i bet u 50bucks you open this again :P
you just wont post ... so i bet ur reading this msg

the movie was extremely shallow if u ask me

yet you dont get it?

and i think i would have to see it again after thinking about it to fully understand whats going on, but imho i think its pretty in-depth.



edit: also

precogs are independent of the world. they do not interact they just spit out the future. the precog making that prediction is becoming a part of the world.

no its not. tom stealing it makes it part of the world once again. besides, that doesnt relate to anything. remember they were part of the world before they were genetically whatevered and put in that temple

Well its written by the same guy as Bladerunner, so you'd expect it to be reasonably in depth (which it is) and raise a number of interesting philosophical points (which it does).

i havnt read all the posts in this thread, so dont know if this has been said yet.

In my view, tom didnt kill the guy - remember, he was walking away and the guy grabbed his gun and shot himself.

in the prevision he was likt 4/5 foot away from the guy, when it happened the gun was right on the guys chest.

So: Tom didnt end up killing the guy, the guy killed himself in order for his family to get money.

Hence proving that the precogs can be wrong if people are given a choice (like in the end of the movie).


But i could be wrong, this is just how i saw the movie.

dame you all, I was going to see it tonight !

sorry thrax :/ it says in the topic spoiler, listen next time @!

i would still recommend seeing it though, it rocks!

OMG

u see the moofie for that HAWT LEXUS!

didnt the pre-cogs only have their vision of tom killing the guy because of agatha grabbing him and saying 'cant u see' ? and that led him onto the case of agathas mothers death, thefore the old dude wanted to get him put away, and thus making that other guy look like he killed his son ?

or am i on smack and this doesnt make any sense

I agree with stez that the movie had a fundamental flaw. The movie started out really well, and gave you something to think about, throwing around morals and metaphysics then just decended into mediocrity with that stupid "twist" and turned into another random chase movie.
That whole slip of the tounge on behalf of the bad guy at the end was just incredibly stupid.
I think the only redeeming thing was the fact that speilberg doesnt use technology to make a movie like spiderman and ep2 but instead uses it to enhance a movie.

ok i may have come across sounding like an idiot.

i do understand all the philosophical ideas being explored in the movie, but that isnt relavent to what im saying about the pre-cog having a vision that would never happen unless the precog had the vision...

as for the shallowness, i just thought that the story behind the precogs was a bit weak.

Heh i didnt know it was written by the same guy as blade runner, but in the movie i kept thinking "damn this is so much like blade runner" :)

It is a good movie, however it is a typical Tom Cruise movie..

I think you're just grasping at straws and you are gay.

hahahaa

i dunno this is all getting too confusing now

see, you can't argue with him, just give up guys.

I saw it tonite and the moofie rawked!

rolfies!

I think movie made sense. (except for the bit where they don't restrict access to his eye ball once he becomes a wanted man, or even after he is imprisoned)

The murder that the precog saw was classed as premeditated. They can't tell who premeditated it, just that someone was planning murder. The old guy was counting on this. All he had to do was hire a guy be a target, arrange some stuff on bed to make Anderton want to kill him, and then think lots about Anderton killing Crow.

Then, Anderton sees himself, runs away then gets curious about Leo Crow. So he goes there, sees pics and wants to kill the guy.

Pretty well thought out I think... The movie is one people will talk about for a while, but it isn't anywhere near as deep as something like Blade Runner or Memento.

There are always issues with the plot on 'time-travel' or 'seeing into the future' type movies.

You have two choices what to do. Let them ruin the movie, or enjoy the movie.

I enjoyed the movie.

Oh yeh. I thought a bigger plot hole which was actually quite stupid of them was Tom Cruise using his old eyes to get into the cop shop after he was known to be a murderer. I mean, wouldn't the first thing they do be denying him access?

feh.

Uhh...the precog asked TomCruise for help at the start...he was chosen.

I thought the Precog created an alternate future for him, so that he would eventually find out about the truth - of the murder and minority report.

I liked the movie, but with all "go into/back to the future" movies it always rapes up the paradox theory.

Eg, The precogs predict a murder is going to happen, so the cops go and stop it. But if the murder is stopped, then there was no murder to predict in the first place, so how did they predict it?
Just gets stuck in a loop.

The movie was great, I loved it. Stez, it all comes down to what your opinions on changing the future and fate etc are all about. They are obviously different to some other people (like Khel) and it is all about how you interpret the movie. Even if you see that as a major flaw, I don't see why you can't like the movie irrespective.

I thought a bigger plot hole which was actually quite stupid of them was Tom Cruise using his old eyes to get into the cop shop after he was known to be a murderer. I mean, wouldn't the first thing they do be denying him access?

ahaha yeah that's exactly what I was thinking when I was watching it. Ah well, it was still sweet.

I thought the ending was rather s***. Not enough action & things blowing up. and holy s*** it was long.

I can't wait to go see MIIB.

oh, and silent-bob's right