It's not really a review, because I don't have a degree in journalism. And it'll be in my wonderful rambling style with incorrect grammar ("your" always works dan)

Heroes of Newerth is a DOTA style stand alone game currently in closed beta that is probably the mostly similar not only in characters and items to DOTA but in term of look and feel (not that I played a lot of DOTA, but it looks and feels like warcraft3 and DOTA to me).

It's main selling point to me is that it has the character building, and equipment collecting that an MMO has, with the teamplay and time requirements of a Quake match. Each match starts from 0 so not having played for the last 6 months is not stopping you from playing with everyone else (tho they will know more about the game).

I like MMO style game play but detest the time requirements. I have discovered this is a happy medium of the 2 with games being between 20mins and a bit over an hour. And it keeps you hooked by every time you play you find something new or a counter to a class or ability.

The actual game is very simple, 1 hero 4 skills up to 6 items at a time, you win by getting your NPC army (creeps) to kill the enemy base. However it has a moderately steep learning curve and a community that will discourage new players that makes getting into the game hard. If you can struggle past those first few games and find the guides it is a fun team based pvp game.


At the end of the day if you enjoy Diablo PVP or MMO PvP but don't have the time to invest in an MMO. Or if you enjoy strategy games, but don't enjoy the base management. This might be a game you should keep an eye out for.



Cons.
- No AI maps, the only way to practice is in games (which are rated)
- public matches people tend to focus solely on their "stats" rather then overall game perspectives. So people will pick all carries and won't spend money on things that help others (and ultimately the overall success of the team) like wards or couriers.
- The community has a dislike for newcomers because they ruins your stats.
- has its own language. (creeps, b, push, jungle, lane)

Pros
+ Good teamwork is needed to succeed
+ Skill will beat lightning reflexes, a good pc or a single digit ping. (however those things will help)
+ Lots of games all the time.
+ Low end PC specs mean all sorts of people from all sorts of countries play this game. Has a large Brazilian following for instance and I have stumbled into mainly Filipino player games.
+ one of the best in game "vent" style systems it just works out of the box
+ Stable. I have had only 1 crash in closed beta.

Neutral
= The game currently has 2 or maybe 3 maps, but people almost exclusively play 1 map. That said the map is complex enough that you might not find some things for many many games.

I won't try to explain my comments in detail instead I'll post a bunch of helpful you tube videos (Made by other folk).

HON guide part 1


HON guide part 2


HON Character Role introduction


A bunch more gameplay and video guides can be found on you tube here
HoNLeague You Tube

Nice post, Obes. Very nice post.

Cons/Pros is the way to go.

When I played a bit, something that annoyed me was the leaver system rating thingy they have going on. It's not very discriminating between the first leaver and everyone else. You're also forced to wait for the other plays to win completely for the game to end, instead of your teammates all agreeing its gg and leaving at once. If you do that then you get +1 leave to your stats. Crashing also counts as leaving, not so much an issue but it's extremely annoying when it's your first game and you crash (leaving you with 100% leave rating).

Nah greazy

Your team can concede. If they all agree it gg then concede!!!!

In the first 5 minutes if everyone agrees the match can be remade.
After 15 minutes, your team can concede and people can leave without penalty.

If you crash you have 4 minutes to get back in and it won't affect your leaver rating.

I have a sub 1% leaving stat. And that 1 leave was because I was afk (I didn't know it had an afk thing... some door to door sales freako).

I like leaver penalities. I dislike leavers.

That's awesome, they must have modified it. Especially the crashing/rejoining thing. You should probably add that into the pros.

obes whats ur nick on hon? lets have a game!! (im guessing its obes..)

although a positive aspect of hon is that you can play w everyone around the world- which spices up tactics and ideas for playing heroes. there is little to no lag in games from US West / EUROPE servers, which is better then battle.net which connected you directly to the host.

downside is- still a little imbalanced but once out of beta should have ironed out the issues.

i recommend this over league of legends, however both games have differing characteristics which will appeal to different kinds of dota players.

Yeah its Obes.

And unless your a sucky player (sub 1400) you'll just stomp me (happy to be stomped tho because I learn from them too).

i recommend this over league of legends

I prefer LOL over HON mainly because HON is too much like DOTA ,and I've been playing DOTA for the last 2-3 years on and off. I also don't like the colours, I find it really bland, and the heroes look really dull. I also find there are less wankers playing LOL than HON...well at least from my experience and so far I've played about 50 games.

That being said they are both different games, so each to their own I guess.

HoN will start dotaish to get its market, but over time they will separate. I mean already you feel that HoN is faster. Actually because HoN was faster i think they upped the movement speeds in DotA because it was a good idea.

Playing overseas with low noticeable latency is really good. The inbuilt 150ms + regular latency in bnet is a joke for player hosting. The internet is pretty good now, unlike the dialup days of 2002 (which most of us were on cable then anyway).

HoN has significantly less leavers than DotA.

Rejoining is fantastic, the one in a lifetime brownout which drops you from dota for good (adding you to banlists everywhere) compared to rejoining 2 mins later and catching up.

Also switching f***ing sucks and is broken very very badly in DotA. A switch allowed game is often the worst games.

Most of those things though are just about making the DOTA experience easier/better, they're not about changing the game. It's still the same heroes etc etc. HON should have done something different. At least LOL has tried, and because of it they have more room to change the game because it's not a DOTA clone. How much of the HON community would be up in arms if they decided to move HON in a different direction and changing something radially?

All Modern warfare 2 was, is a clone of COD4 Modern warfare.

Thats s*** they should try to do something different then something that works, like make it broken.

There are enough different toons already.
Nymphora, Electrician, Kraken and even the copies are exact copies.

Enough so that a dota player gets lost and confused at first.

All Modern warfare 2 was, is a clone of COD4 Modern warfare.

Actually that's not a correct analogy. A correct anology would be HON is to DOTA as Halo Xbox is to Halo PC.

My real point (even if poorly explained) was that you were complaining about not getting something new when every other genre is sticking to tried and tested formula. The game never ever said it was doing something special I don't think its fair to hold that against them as a negative when the average game does that anyway.

As it is DotA was the first of its kind of its Genre and doing it right is pretty damn hard. There were all kinds of FPS's but its been rare that the minute differences between them have really compelled gamers to converge on a specific best. There are ones they avoid but if you were to say what is the current best FPS opinion's would be divided.

As it is HoN already has a different play style than that of DotA (even if its only slightly) which is HoN's unique flavor. I think thats attributed to some of the changes they've made to characters abilities to be able to move around more freely. They introduced more than a single map. They introduced dedicated hosting. They introduced all the things that banlist didn't do. I'm not sure what kind of innovations you want, but these are all logical and positive steps.

But feel free to express what kind of innovative idea's you would put forward for the genre. But beware, if you change the game too much, you're already excluding a large dedicated playerbase who you need to pass a profit. These guys aren't blizzard, they don't have billions of dollars to throw at promotion and testing. But even blizzard don't change much from their formula.

I think you really read to much into my first post which was basically saying I prefer LOL because HON is essentially just DOTA with some better non-gameplay enhancements. The heroes, are for the most part the same, so are the abilities and items. That's not just sticking to the same formula, it's just copying the game. I'm not arguing that they've misrepresented themselves either, they haven't.

For those in love with DOTA, or those new to it, it's probably brilliant, but as I've played DOTA for years I want something new, and that to me is LOL, not HON.

It would seem Alienware Arena is giving out keys here

I think i read

HON should have done something different.

And I'm disagreeing.

Yes, and I'm disagreeing too because I've played enough DOTA for HON to not be compelling :)

So people will pick all carries and won't spend money on things that help others (and ultimately the overall success of the team) like wards or couriers.

What mode do you primarily play?

Looks gay.

It looks exactly like DotA with updated graphics. Even the layout of the map is the same.

I prefer SD (non easy mode)
But most games in the lower brackets are APEM.

Well that's where you're going wrong. RD or nothing.

s*** game is s***.

Game type: RD

The end, anything else and it's a game of retards who don't understand the idea of counter picking, picking the best out of a thinner line up and the fact that DENYING MOBS MEANS SOMETHING!

Nuff said :D

yeah but not a lot of rd in the low brackets. They love their APEM. I hate EM and don't like AP.

Some points for some of my favorate heroes for this game...

Thunderbringer - Never go in first but play very hostile towards enemy heroes, you want them to fear you, even if you cant kill them they will lose 80% health, meaning anothre trip to the fountain that no one likes... this feer will keep them from trying to 1:1 you however it will make you a target in group orgies

1. Dont level chain lightning untill last.
2. Once your non-chain lightning abil and lightning rod get to level 2 spam the hell out of them to harras other heroes, chaning with ulti to finish when possible.
3. Watch for heroes that get away from battles and use ulti to finished them off (be careful not to KS, this is like taking the medpack in a game when your on 90% health... dont do it)
4. Stack int... grab as many +3str,+3agil,+9int necklaces as quickly as you can (only costs like 600g) after that go for the bloodstone and then totem of sheep etc. Seriously all you need on this hero is tonnes of int and some health.
5. Dont be afraid to use your ulti when your on your way back to the fountain, it'll give all your allied visibility on all enemy heroes on the map for 5-6secodns and itll come off cooldown before you get back into battle!

Behemoth - Play initiator - go in first
1. Your first item should be the ring that when activated gives you mana back. Spam the hell out of this and you'll stay potent during early and mid game.
2. Get the blink / teleport short distance item as quickly as you can
3. Wait for enemy heroes to bunch up with alot of enemy mobs around them, blink so you position yourself next to the enemy hero with all their mobs behind them then ulti, each shockwave will head for the enemy units, meaning you can sometimes get 6+ shockwavse traveling through the enemy hero = dead hero.
4. Get the behemoth hearth asap as it's health regen will keep you farming all game and also the cleave + mana regen axe
5. Only take 1 level of fissure untill you get all your other stuff. The extra dmg of higher level fissures means nothing but the extra high mana cost DOES. Mana is really a clincher on this guy so dont level fissure untill mana isnt an issue for you keep it at level1!
6. Dont be afraid to block using fissure, if you need to buy some time for your team to regroup while the enemy heroes look like they are heading down center, position yourself on the right hand side of the ramp, then fissure to the left, youll delay their advance by 5-6 seconds easy. This is also effective for delaying your mobs in your lane so that the fighting gets pulled towards your tower etc.


Magnus - Play initiator or finisher
1. Best ulti in the game imo, but so so so hard to use. Any stun or disable (cc) will stop the 2-3s channel time before it starts and the animation is a dead give away. Grab yourself a blink item then ulti... as SOON as the ulti channel is finished and your ulti starts (earthquake around you) blink in! Your ulti is done, use your slide stun then either get out of there or go into cloud/smoke mode... and wait for your allies to bail you out.
2. If your sand storm is getting countered by wards and dust etc then get yourself an item that gives you a few sec of invis or the plate items, stack that armor and spell resistance.
3. Level your charge/slide as quickly as you can because it gives it extra distance, which is what you really need with this abil.
4. Whenever your ulti is off cooldown USE IT. If you dont think you'll have a group battle orgy within the next minute or two then go use it on a duel pack of mobs or something, get some cash. Most importantly though, as soon as you get your blink/tp item you really need to be using your ulti as much as you can, usually in combo with a stun from other heroes like andromeda or snare from someone like puppet, dont under use it, its op!
5. Dont bother with staff of the master, despite what people say its not a large enough bonus to mag's ulti! Stack the tanky items and keep the initiator roll, thats waht your team needs (usually)

Hope someone takes something from all that ;) Took ages to type.


last edited by gamer at 14:37:51 14/Oct/09

I'll pick apart your builds a little!

With the zeus clone, get one point into chain lightning. Only need one until you've maxed the static charge equiv and the lightning bolt equiv. The reason is the static charge does damage when you cast, and it doesn't matter what level the cast is, so level 1 will do just as much static charge damage as your LB except you can to nuke use 3 skills, and get 6 hits of damage... ie: level1 1 ChainLightning (+1 static) 1 LightningBolt (+1 static) + ulti (+1 static) = more damage total.


oh, substitute lightning rod for static charge.

All it means is your static charge will be one level behind its potential, but you have another skill to set off the lightning rod which is useful. Consumeables are a must on this guy :)

You don't want to go after pudge or magina clones.

cheers sky... can you clare up some terminology for me if you know it?

what is a 'carry' ? (is it just a hero that isnt good untill end game - thus needing to be 'carried')

Whats the best burst dmg hero you know of (this is why i like thunderbringer)?

Whats the item that gives all the stuff near you magic immunity? (this is countering me alot with thunderbringer) - is there a way around it?

what is a 'carry' ? (is it just a hero that isnt good untill end game - thus needing to be 'carried')

AFAIK A carry, carries your team to victory. (They usually start soft, need baby sitting or need to be left to farm gold). I try not to out last hit a carry, and I do anything I can to keep them alive. I usually play support and a support dying is far more preferable to a carry dying imo.

Whats the best burst dmg hero you know of (this is why i like thunderbringer)?

Not quite sure what you are asking, but potentially highest damage in a single ability is Soul Reaper and his ulti Demonic Execution. It has the ability to do 45% damage in a single blow, more hit points they have the more damage it does.

That or Magebane's Ulti similar but based on mana missing.

Or in terms of burst, possible chronos because when he does the big bubble thing all the damage he does can't be responded to so its like a burst.

Whats the item that gives all the stuff near you magic immunity? (this is countering me alot with thunderbringer) - is there a way around it?

Shaman's Headdress, Mystic vetments, shrunken head, nullstone, barrier idol some hero's abilities

what is a 'carry' ? (is it just a hero that isnt good untill end game - thus needing to be 'carried')

Excactly, and then he can carry his team to victory from that point.

Whats the best burst dmg hero you know of (this is why i like thunderbringer)?

I think he is the best, but constant rebalancing will always change this. Early on he'd probably be slightly in front.

Whats the item that gives all the stuff near you magic immunity? (this is countering me alot with thunderbringer) - is there a way around it?

Ah khadgars hood equivilant absorbs damage, the way around it is to wait it out or do more damage then it can absorb. It only should absorb 500 damage worth. If someone else has a purge ability they can remove the shield. In warcraft 3 dota you can use a diffusal blade to purge the shield off, but you shouldn't get that item as a int character. Hopefully someone else can.

Sorry i'm not more specific to the actual items in HoN i've been sticking to DotA again recently due to friends :) its a pain to have your friends split between games..

Gamer your zues "guide" is fkn retarded, cl is clutch early, does more damage then your passive static charge, which IS useless early cause no heroes have high enough hp for it to out damage cl vs your once every 6 or 8 second lighting bolt.

Stack int on Zues? he's already weak enough as it is, low armour and low hp.. you get him bracers not exiles and generally hex first trashes all over bloodstone unless you're vs 1300 which you probably are by writing what you wrote.

Typical build for him is, bracers -> boots (enh marchers if u need to be able to get away from quick heroes) -> mana tube into hex stick then maybe a blood stone afterwards.

In short, i love seeing zues's that rush the s*** u suggested cause u tear them up in about 2 seconds.

last edited by Raider at 15:07:55 14/Oct/09

Thanks for the parts that were constructive/good feedback Raider ;)

(and of course thanks as well obes and sky)

last edited by gamer at 15:16:13 14/Oct/09

Typical build for him is, bracers -> boots (enh marchers if u need to be able to get away from quick heroes) -> mana tube into hex stick then maybe a blood stone afterwards.

Wow how long do you want to play a game for? boots bracers sure, but a hex stick is really asking for you to farm at some point, which is not what you should be doing.

And blood stone? What the? Are you playing a carry zeus here? You've got it all wrong. You need to play the first 11 levels like they're your last. Dominating your lane and when its pushed too far wandering to initiate ganks.

Your build is pretty selfish. Lightning rod is good early on because you don't have the mana to constantly spam. Its a free 20-40 damage early on without generating aggro for no mana cost. You should be harrassing a lot and ignoring that spell and spending an extra 100+ mana on another skill is only going to net you an extra 80-100 damage. By level 6 if you have lightning rod, you have 3 free casts of +40ish damage (dependant) if you spam all 3 abilities, which is higher than maxing out your chain lightning damage.

As for survival zeus, you're doing it wrong if you think you should be tanking. You should be deny tower hugging. You should be baiting. You should be low HP your only job is to walk into and do massive burst damage and then hide till skills are refreshed. I'm not saying bracers are bad, they aren't they are a perfect way to be more aggressive but thats not to say that you can't do better with higher mana pool from null's.

Also there is no one item build which works every game, even at the beginning of the game if you lane against someone low HP carry type, you're much better to get lots of clarities and tango's and watch the map for missing players as you constantly keep him from getting any xp because you have full mana to nuke him if he's stupid enough to come near creeps.

And blood stone? What the? Are you playing a carry zeus here? You've got it all wrong. You need to play the first 11 levels like they're your last. Dominating your lane and when its pushed too far wandering to initiate ganks.

Thats very much how I think sky. With thunder im very agressive and dont want a long game. All of what you said was pretty much a 1:1 copy of how my games with him go.

bumping this thread for a fairly noob question.

I've got a HON account, where's the invite page?

I figured it out, I had to log into the beta site instead of the main site.

Who's still playing?

last edited by greazy at 01:13:20 28/Oct/09

we're playing right now :)

i am

I join a noob game and non of the players are noobs. When I ask for help I get laughed at and called a noob.

Some how noob means average players.

Yeah it's a bit hit and miss at the moment as everyone's stats were just reset, which basically means anyone can join noob only games.

I played it a bit more over the weekend. They REALLY need to get the auto match functionality working, stuff f***ing around with their slow arse server browser.

waiting for the open beta

unless anyone has a beta key

I have a few beta keys.
I can send you one, PM me your email addy.

I like the stats reset.
My KD is much healthier then before. Still not good but it shows I am improving!

I need to learn that once a game is lost not to try and defend.

I need to learn that once a game is lost not to try and defend.

As long as you dont die you should be fine to defend. As always when defending during a losing match your defence method should be harrass/bait to team or fountain turret etc.


---

I played an amazing game last night.

Nymph, Jeriziah (me), Slither, Rampage and Moon Queen.

The other team was all very good but we towered within 11minute (LOL).

Was truely epic, once i got my mana regen ring at about 8minutes we didnt stop pushing, nymph spammed mana on me and i spammed heals, it was amazing. The three or four group ganks I used my ulti and gave us all +9999 armor for 6 seconds or whatever and we came out on top. It was truely ownage and a team makeup that I will need to remember for the future.

I join a noob game and non of the players are noobs. When I ask for help I get laughed at and called a noob.

Some how noob means average players.

Yeah last night, I saw someone with a 1580psr and 2.0 KD claim to be a noob.

But the difference between a 1st game player and even a 5th game player is huge.

Greazy the biggest advice I can give you as someone who started with no knowledge and is still a noob

1. Stay alive.
2. Read guides.
3. Watch video guides.

I'd play 1 or 2 practice games to get how the interface and shop works. Where the secret shop and out post are, what trees you can walk through, where runes spawn.

Find an easier hero (anything that needs to jungle or has active skill synergies or *needs* staff of master is probably not easy)

Slither is not to bad. Ranged, static ground pets, a snare, an aoe ulti that will make people a little nervous of trying to solo gank you unless they are stealth.
The read guides for that toon. Thunder is fairly easy to play with out being too sucky. (In saying this those 2 toons played by good players are capable of being OP eg. slither as an early ganker (say soon as he hits 6 and other are 3 or 4)

Then find an APEM and play it. Focus on not dying. Watching your mini map will help you not get snuck up on / tail-ended. Try to keep up on exp, and buy stuff from the recommended tab in the shop.

Your first bunch of games will suck.

Yeah I get that you can defend. Played a game that went over 100mins the other day.

We had an early leaver so it was 4v5

They knocked down 2 of our barracks but we sat back and defended and they slowly dribbled in thinking they were indestructible. But we kept on defending and farming. Eventually we were all 25 and had all our gear, we knocked off 2 of them defending then pushed 2 lanes. I was on nymph and we had a guy solo push 1 lane and we pushed the other, when they went to gank him we all ported over ... genocide! win!


But its rare. Usually people give up and don't D (go sit in the pond or go hide on the map) and I foolishly keep trying.
I don't really like concedes either because you just never know (unless the other team vastly out levels and gears you)



Had 1 game the other day where the host had a "proxy" in our team
Just kept running a toon in our team down to their side to feed.
And after killing them about 10 times he quit it out. (it never bought an item or hit a creep it ran to straight to their end to be killed). So not only did we have an early leaver but they got fed into the bargain ... much rage : /

Too bad the community of players are dickwads, it was a pretty interesting game.

Yeah : /
It badly needs a non dickwad server option.

Thanks for the advice obes. I used to play dota and as shrapse can tell you I sucked hardcore. I just want to play against noobs like myself and just learn the game that way.

Keato: Before the joined the game, I was asking a few questions in general chat and I had a few people help me out, so they're not all dicks. But I'd have to agree with you after I joined a game.

Honestly, all those people complaining that everyone are idiots etc... all you goto do is play with some mates ... 1-2 to make you the majority on the team... and if someone is saying your s*** dont be such a head strong monkey... ask them to lead you... ask them to call the pings and shots and back orders/killtargets-order etc... often they arnt noobs themselves and can offer a good leadership role if you are noobs. I do this heaps in my games i ask people if they want me to try and lead us through some ganks, sometimes people opt in sometimes they dont, usually if they dont, they dont need leadership or they dont speak english.

Thats one thing thats getting more common, games where you see

nei ha ji ken

wtf is that..

gamer, they weren't even giving advice to begin with. I'd love to play with someone that leads, but out of the few games I've played it's usual abuse.

What hero should I go?
"haha you're a noob"
Yeah well this is a noob game.
"You're a super noob though"
Where do I get slayer from?
"Slayer is a hero in the game"
What item should I get?
"Go be a noob somewhere else"

All in a span of one game :(

Add me greazy (obes) I don't lead but I won't abuse you either!

I also don't play very often

Cons: Bridges

greazy, reguarding hero selection... you basically want to 'fill in the gap'. However you will need at minimum a decent understanding of more then 50% of the heroes (just what they are basically about and their spells do) for you to do this, at first you just want to play a hero that you can keep alive with and you enjoy playing... later that turns into playing a hero that you can keep alive with and can help out in ganks etc while doing so...

here is an example of a good team make up (in terms of balance - 'counter picking' is when you pick heroes that 'canel out' other heroes strengths, such as picking pestillence when they pick scout etc)

2x agility 'carry' heroes (get them to endgame and they are gods)
1x tank/initiator (initiators start fights without dying, tanks are special initators in that they can start fights but not have to leave per say, they can sometimes be quite good dps and/or stunners as well such as mag, behe or panda)
1x support (healers, -dmg group buff heroes etc)
1x int/burst hero (most int heroes are high dps but fragile, this of course can be replaced with another support to make an endurance team or another agil carry)

So here are some examples of a 'balanced' team

tank/initiator/stunner - magnus
agil carry 1 - scout
agil carry 2 - arachna
int burst/stunner - pyromancer
support (heals and -dmg buff) - jeriziah

Here is an example of a not well balanced team

agil carry 1 - scout
agil carry 2 - slither
agil carry 3 - aracna
agil carry 4 - swiftblade
int burst - thunderbringer

While this team _may be_ capableof owning any face late game its going to be easily pushed around early game (before level 6 ulti's come into play) and late-midgame (level 7-12). More interstingly important is realising that this team has no real disable without a stunner or disable (polywog priest, tempest etc). Although it has snares such as scout's ulti, aracna's ulti and slithers aoe ulti, they can be easily countered with items such as shrunken head etc.

I'm by no means a 'pro' ... i'm picking this up just like most people but i have played alot of dota and ive read ALOT of stuff and played over 400 games before the stats were reset (average about 40 games/wk). Dont take this for gospel but take it as me trying to help as best i can.

Popular counter picks (youll get what i mean)

If they pick - You might want to pick

scout - pestilence, nighthound
pyro - thunderbringer
behemoth - aracna
etc etc (those are very bad examples, im sure other forum members will flame/correct me for).

Most of all though, you goto play a hero you can play well at the start... any hero you can stay alive with... more important to stay alive... as you can always learn how to help out the team while staying alive... then say people who cant stay alive but help out the team (feed).

we played one game the other night against a well balanced team with 5 int comedy...
Think shrapse and slyin were in that .. was funny

LoL Obes, its times like those that i wish the replays were working properly... i read somewhere recently how to enable the console and record/play a game... aparently the code is there for it but its not enabled in the GUI for some reason, probably because they want you to buy full game etc

Just as a quick note I'm going to point out where the average dota (and running under assumption, extending this to HON) ardtard went wrong was by assuming that there is only one solid build for each character, only one style to play each character and basically flaming teammates/rage quitting when they don't understand this.

I.e. all this talk of carry heroes and strats etc is great but wholly very specific. Get good at the basics such as denying, last hitting, team pushing, team defending and organising ganks/pincers/counter-ganks - regardless of the hero you're using and you'll become a s***load better at the game



or you could just wait for the gamefaqs.com page to be filled up with retards spouting their item builds.

I wouldn't listen to Vora, he's terrible at the game! :P

I wouldn't listen to step, he is the man that broke a dragon's heart :(

Then find an APEM and play it.

~heh~

anyone still have spare invites for this?

Send me a pm with your email diesel

Anyone manged to figure out how to play behemoth so hes strong late game? I usually do really well early and mid but then get owned fulltime lategame, i realise he is a str disable/tank but i would like him to still be a threat late game, i usually have the cleave axe, blink dagger, behemoth heart by then...

(edit: and of course the mana replenish ring)

Anyone manged to figure out how to play behemoth so hes strong late game?

Yeah stun stuff for your carries to rape.

In response to Raiders Thunderbringer (Zeus) build... I have to agree with Skythra that getting the Totem of Kuldra is going to take alot of farming and if the game is definitely heading for a long one then fine... but to finish the game within say a 20 minute period then you have no chance.

My Thunderbringer build (care of Meggems):

When you game begins grab the following:

x1 Apprentice's Robe
x1 Mana Potion
x1 Runes of the Blight

What you're aiming to get are the Steam Boots, so assuming that you're soloing mid just click B (shop inventory) and purchase the Major Totem and Marchers to complete your steamboots. When you get Steam Boots make sure to change it to the Intel option.

Also, when soloing mid make sure that you deny as many creeps as possible as this will give you the advantage over an opponent. With your abilities use this tree:

Level 1 - Blast of Lightning
Level 2 - Lightning Rod
Level 3 - Blast of Lightning
Level 4 - Lightning Rod
Level 5 - Blast of Lightning
Level 6 - Lightning Storm
Level 7 - Blast of Lightning
Level 8 - Lightning Rod
Level 9 - Chain Lightning
Level 10 - Lightning Rod
Level 11 - Lightening Storm

The rest you can sort out yourself.

Now once you hit level 5 you're able to spam the Blast of Lightning against your opponent. It's no point spamming it (unless they're close to death) beforehand. Remember level 3 BoL will damage for 275. Once you hit Level 6 you're chances of killing him increase dramatically. Spam the BoL and use a mana pot as you hit level 6 ... as your mana increased to the point were you're able to use a BoL and then your ulti apply pressure to the hero by moving within striking range. You should be getting your first kill at about this stage (depending how well your opponent is playing).

During your time in the middle make sure that you continue to purchase the items to make up the steam boots. Once you have completed that save $$$ for a Mana Tube ... when you're close to obtaining the Mana Tube get your steam boots and then go and help top or bot ... your mana regen will roughly be around 100% or more at the moment so spamming your BoL is a great idea.

About 10 minutes into the game you should already have Steam Boots, Sustainer, Pickled Brain and depending on how well you're going GlowStone. Just remember that TB is predominantly a support hero. Concentrate on the minimap to see if any opposing heroes have their health down below 250 (level 1 Lightning Storm), if they do then ult.

If the game wears on past the 20 minute mark then you'll have to start considering some decent items ... i prefer to go for Codex as it means you can BoL, Codex (depending on the level) and then ult for some serious damage to a tanking opponent. In other cases you can aim for Restoration Stone but in my opinion if it goes that long then TB becomes a liability. If that's the case I suggest switching to some damage rendering items ... Thunderclaw, Charged Hammer... it's really up to you what you get from there.

Anyways that's my two cents worth and usually with this build i average 8kills/2deaths/11support ... that's within the first 15 to 20 minutes.

last edited by MoGs at 13:20:25 29/Oct/09

LIGHTNING SLEEP LIGHTNING SLEEP

keep up the noob guides, people. i just got around to downloading the HON client and am about to play my first game.

can't wait to be abused for my noobishness :D

also post your nicks if you wanna own me in a game or two, my nick is taggs

it would be awsome if we could get a post with everyones game nicks stickied to this forum, updated by a mod when they get a chance each week etc.

wow i just gave pyro a really good game when i decided to pickup the sheep stick before i got the ulti staf..

Sheep -> dargon wave -> aoe stun thing -> ulti

lozoolzolzolz killed a tank on 3k health instantly almost... was beautiful

my name is _TiT_

BUMPED.

I'm sick of playing this s*** with pub sadcakes add konstie if u want to play!

If you're looking for a game anyone I usually hang out in channel: vault

Nick used is mogsy

ok will add u guys at lunch time