How do you explain Minchin?

I can't believe he is still trying to say that the NBN is useless because Australians prefer wireless!

I just sent him an e-mail, but seriously... This guy is not helping the coalition's cause one bit.

It's funny when any politician attempts to explain anything related to IT infrastructure.

It's funny when any politician attempts to explain anything related to IT infrastructure.

surely the would just consult experts and take there advice.

as a taxpayer i prefer wireless.

as a tax payer i want FTTH

I sat next to Santoro on my Qantas flight back from MLB last Wednesday no joke. I didn't realised who he was until my boss told me. He was in the cattle class, I'm surprised he's not in the business class hehe.

How do you explain Conroy?

I can't believe he is still trying to say that the internet is useless because Australians prefer it to be censored!

I just sent him an e-mail, but seriously... This guy is not helping the government's cause one bit.

How do you explain unions?

an organization of employees formed to bargain with the employer?

^^ that would be fine spook. How you explain the ring-ins that stir up the process?

Who prefers wireless? s***ty technology that has a long way to go.

Wireless certainly has its place... but its only going to be useful in addition to a solid fixed network.

I prefer a solution developed by the market instead of one decided purely for economic stimulus, resulting in waste and overcapacity.

Nick is fairly conservative on the political spectrum so he wouldn't be going for any new fangled stuff.

I love my Optus cable, but I love it even more for the fact that a private company decided to roll it out.

Not everyone is entitled to cable. People are entitled to cable where it will be utilised and can be rolled out affordably.

imo

last edited by infi at 10:37:02 15/Sep/09

Who prefers wireless?

Telstra.

we need more exchanges built/upgraded asap all around the country and they just aren't feasible as they once were.

How do you explain unions?

It is essential that there should be organizations of labor. This is an era
of organization. Capital organizes and therefore labor must organize.
Theodore Roosevelt
Source:Speech, Oct 14, 1912

And Casa ... He was a Republic president.
And yes when it got reported it got reported with out the u's old spelling ? American spelling ? who knows.

back to what fade said, they're there, but they don't surve their purposes.

Sorry this is just another s*** for me

I like unions... mostly. I can't stand it though that the law has been changed that if one union-member employee in a non-union workplace wants a collective agreement, then the employer must bargain collectively with union representatives despite none of the other workers wanting this.

The Liberals were accused of looking after big business and now the ALP is just doing the same in a much more obvious fashion for trade unions.

Workers should be free to negotiate with their employer for whatever conditions work best for them.

Not that any of this has anything to do with the NBN.

I just want fast, cheap unmetered internets. I don't give a s*** how I get it.

Now make it happen.

I prefer a solution developed by the market instead of one decided purely for economic stimulus, resulting in waste and overcapacity.

I guess the government decided that people should get a choice to have fast broadband in the majority of the country, even if its not imediatly profitable to install it.

If everything was done to purely financial reasons, anyone outside of the city metro areas woldnt get anything, they just would be ignored becuase its not that profitable, thats why the government has to step in, unless we just want everyone to move to the big citys, which in australia is a silly idea.

I prefer a solution developed by the market

Yeah lets get rid of state schools and public hospitals.

well more and more people are deserting both every day.

goes to show the awesome quality they are offering the taxpayer, that people are choosing to use their own money over the free alternative.

yes well he's in opposition isn't he

Well infi if we had guns we could shoot under performing doctors and teachers!

yeah that wouldn't really work. threatening staff never works. i honestly wonder what meds you're on sometimes obes.

or rather what meds he should be on

http://www.getprice.com.au/images/uploadimg/127/350__1_574295.jpg

threatening staff never works

oh so you'd only wave the gun at them ?

Obes is obviously not a manager. Happy staff = productive staff.

Productive staff are ones where the co-worker has been shot for being unproductive!!!

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Not everyone is entitled to cable. People are entitled to cable where it will be utilised and can be rolled out affordably.

Everyone is entitled to power though right, and phone? I guess it just depends on where you draw the line, whether everyone should be happy with dial-up or if everyone should have access to the latest in nuclear weaponry.

oh so you'd only wave the gun at them ?

That would be the definition of a threat...

^
don't feed the troll.

Everyone is entitled to power though right, and phone? I guess it just depends on where you draw the line

This is the argument in a nutshell and, what the next 10 pages will be spent bashing back and forth.

Some people consider high-speed broadband internet the 4th utility (or a necessary upgrade to the third). Government should engage in building infrastructure to support essential utlities, especially when the private sector is unwillng to bear the cost for fear of lacklustre returns.

Others argue that it is a luxury, in which case the capital cost should be market-borne, provision and access determined by profitability.

I think its more a utility than a luxury, and that there is a good chance that an agressive rollout of bandwidth will pay dividends for Aussies this century.


last edited by Hogfather at 15:30:07 15/Sep/09

Ever done your banking on dialup?

f*** no, you havent

My mum lives in a semi-rural area and has dial-up.

My god, I can't believe how cool we once thought that was... it is so slow it's verging on useless.

But I suspect the websites now are bigger and fancier that require higher bandwidth, choking the dial-upers. Plus her dial up is probably s***.

last edited by mission at 16:20:21 15/Sep/09

IMO It is a massive waste of taxpayer dollars to subsidize a service that the private sector is perfectly capable of competing profitably to provide.

One could argue it is forcibly removing the gun out against our head from Telstra's hands, but, why not just regulate the hell out of it instead. Certainly cheaper one would think.

Everyone is entitled to power though right, and phone?

The only difference is that those two (but you can add in water and sewer too) have resulted in massive improvements in sanitation and personal safety, whereas broadband just helps you download porn and watch youtubes faster.

Not exactly basic quality of life issues.

last edited by infi at 16:19:40 15/Sep/09

Not exactly basic quality of life issues.

they are to me buddy

Not exactly basic quality of life issues.

No, not if you are from the dark ages. If you are from a million years into the future when this will actually be built then I bet it will be.

Are you saying that without broadband, people's sanitation and personal safety are at risk?

yes

^ Agreed ^

Are you saying that without broadband, people's sanitation and personal safety are at risk?

Now I know the risks of going A2M without washing first or A2V without correct cleaning.

i keep clicking on this thread to read it, but it just sucks so hard
/e-leaves

whereas broadband just helps you download porn and watch youtubes faster.

Surely that was a joke right, coming from you infi I just dont know, it sounds exactly like what the old liberal communications minister said.

yes Maslow's hierarchy now needs to be redesigned so that the bottom of the pyramid includes food, clothing, shelter and 20mbit broadband.

Infi, do you work from home or run a home business? No. Are you part of a global company requiring global communications between all it's members? No.

One of the fastest growth areas in business is home business or working from home for a business and if you can't understand the drivers for this then you're really a dinosaur.

In other words I think in this case you are really showing you're ignorance of the benefits to our economy and our work practices.

and those businesses can pay for it and relocate to where it can be affordably obtained.

not at quilpie or in the kimberlies.

"your"

SFB, I am hardly a dinosaur, I have cable internet myself and have just had a dedicated copper line run to my business for 20mbit internet. This is about the proper use of taxpayer money for what is essentially a private service to be used by selected people and companies.

Comparing broadband internet to piped water, sewer, power or phone is ridiculous.

last edited by infi at 17:11:52 15/Sep/09

^ so the resources sector doesn't exist and we don't benefit significantly from it Hey? One of the biggest piss offs to the resources sector is digital communication speeds.

I consult to the resources sector and I'd like you to tell them they're insignificant.

I'd also like you to tell all them all they have to do is relocate all their mines to somewhere like Kelvin Grove, same as all the supporting businesses.

last edited by Some Fat Bastard at 17:09:53 15/Sep/09

BHP and Rio and Anglo and all the rest of them are churning out $20b profits a year just fine thank you very much.

My gf consults to all the big miners too and she does her work remotely as a risk manager onsite, no hassles, so I don't know what you're talking about.

Is your argument about home businesses or multi-national miners?

Comparing broadband internet to piped water, sewer, power or phone is ridiculous.

If that's the case we'd either have no dial up or only dial up. Narrow thinking when all you do is benchmark this proposal against your own tiny needs.

The existing network of copper and cable has quite a substantial coverage so they are not limited to one suburb or even one city FYI.

Infi, infi, infi, absolute bulls***.

I deal everyday with Rio and BHPB and in no way are they happy with the communication speeds they have with internet. Why? In particular all of Rio Tinto's IT Server infratsructure is located in San Diego and Chicago. Speeds here are ridiculous and impact productivity.

Now to say they reap heaps of profit doesn't mean they sit back idly and say, well that's enough, we won't realise any further efficiency and productivity gains.

Now you really are coming across as a git.

Why does this make it the taxpayer's $43b problem?

I believe what he is saying is that if they want fibre to the office, they can pay for it.

^ they won't get fibre and I seriously doubt they care what it is, as long as it supports a higher speeds/volume especially at the nearest town's hub. They will pay for their own to the town if feasible and possible not to the city.

Take Emerald for instance the Mines are only out of town between 20 and 40klms.

haha, i'm not getting involved in this thread except to say that obes' trolling has really gone downhill. f***ing awful stuff lately.

I don't want to discuss whether the private sector is responsible for a fibre / next gen network.

I want to discuss why Minchin believes that this network is useless because we all want Wireless. He is meant to be shaddow communications minister, and I think my mother would understand that wireless is no good for anything mission critical (or anything fullstop.)

well wireless is balls. no complaints there.

I just ctrl-a-del a big post on this when I realised that infi's "high speed broadband is for porn" was a stupid argument and not worthy of my time.

that was an exaggeration of the opposite argument for pro NBN people that high speed broadband is somehow similar to clean water, as a basic quality of life service, and should be funded by the taxpayer to the same extent.

hogfather: you already spent the time drafting the reply, so you should have posted it, unless it was maybe flawed upon review :p



last edited by infi at 13:07:41 16/Sep/09

Having Wireless in the home environment.

Were I work there is heaps of data being transferred throughout Queensland and further pretty much 24/7. It can be slow at peak times. That is wired. Good luck making that work at the same level with wireless. Having 1 hour downtime can have a pretty big impact.

I dont think anyone except for Minchin and the rest of the opposition think the NBN is a bad idea in concept. Perhaps it could be argued that the complete duplication of the existing Telstra POTS network would be wasteful, but I assume the Government decided the potential for compensation (with full node cut-over) outweighed any cost savings from not running fibre all the way to the house.

Quigley obviously understands that they need to be price competitive for existing products (Phone, basic broadband) and offer clear value for higher speed connections. I doubt they will go through with it if this is not going to be the end result.

I see the FTTH as a perfect situation for the Government.

• They get to give Telstra a big "f*** YOU"


• They get to stimulate the economy during an economic downturn


• They get to "start from scratch" and create a new network that will last 50 years +

I still think when it was first proposed, OPEL would have been great... but this is obviously 1,000,000x better.

I deal everyday with Rio and BHPB and in no way are they happy with the communication speeds they have with internet. Why? In particular all of Rio Tinto's IT Server infratsructure is located in San Diego and Chicago. Speeds here are ridiculous and impact productivity.

This is true. I work in the Oil & Gas sector for ExxonMobil, Project Controls to be precise. I work on large scale gas and oil projects over the world.

We are constantly communicating all around the globe. Transferring large amounts of information and running offshore systems. The infrastructure here in Australia stunts our productivity and is far behind the capabilities of many other countries of the same development.