Got into a discussion about countries with mandatory service and someone said that America had a mandatory Serve or Service type program...
So either you be a soldier or a volinteer aid worker, for a set period of time.

He was adamant that there was, is and always has been such a program in place for America. I have a few American mates and cant remember them saying anything about having to do anything like that so I refuted his statments and we consulted the google.

From what we found no such program has ever been mandatory but we did find a few new news articles about it, if you can trust Fox news that is.

"whether a workable, fair and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the nation."

Faux 'news' article

One of my mates actually shipped off to basic training for the reserves on monday. This is something he's been talking about doing for a while and actually looking forward to. I also know a few other people in/retired from the armed forces but it's nothing that I have ever felt the need or want to engage in. I certinly wouldn't want to be forced into it during 'peace' times.

If it were put to a vote i'm not sure which way it would go. Part of me thinks that there would be outrage and the current Government hung from flag poles but there is a lot of National Pride in Australia that may make it swing the other way.
Would you accept a mandatory Serve or Service program for Australia? Or is joining the military something you have done/plan on doing on your own accord?

so all those sk's on my team in tf2 would be on my team IRL? get the f*** out

I'd be a great spy.

On a more serious note: I'd vote (a rare event in itself) No because there's nothing right about invading and occupying another country and doing it while the populace doesn't want you there.

p.s and I'd be killed for being a traitor.

Are you worried the Japanese might bomb Darwin again?

Would you accept a mandatory Serve or Service program for Australia? Or is joining the military something you have done/plan on doing on your own accord?

I got booted out of the ADFA selection process because of poor hearing range in one ear; back then things were a lot more selective I guess.

I've had various opinions on national service over the years. I was a big believer in it but am less sure these days. I do think that service would be a good alternative to incarceration for a lot of people, and should be presented as an option during sentencing for appropriate persons.

In a time of war if Australia was being threatened I'm all for conscription. I would sign up myself and would hope that if the nation was under threat they would have to deal with too many people stickin gtheir hands up than too few.

A free country doesn`t have national service in relative peacetime. Pissant countries like Denmark, Sweden and Iceland do. So, yes I expect national service to be implemented in Australia any day now being that Australia is far far from a free country these days.

The US did have national service after Vietnam in the `70s right up until about 1980 at the height of the cold war. Not sure why it stopped in the `80s, the Soviets were getting awful frisky about then but I think the new model for the US military then was for a professional all volounteer force thats effectiveness was tried and proven in operations like Grenada and Panama. The US seriously kicked ass in these operations.

I'd vote yes because the quicker we get all the backward countries changed over to democracy by posting our forces in their country, the sooner we can get on with progressing instead of all the irrational, religious fighting

Subscribing to this thread, this will be a beauty.

Just think creed, all the countries with Mandatory Service not only allow you to use guns but at the end of service they even allow you to keep a few! Then you wouldn't even need your Airsoft as you would have a real gun to call your own and keep you safe.

I myself am on the fence, I can see the need for it in a conflict (and would support it) but think it shouldn't be everyone all the time. However, if people go through basic training when they're 17-20ish, in the unfortunate event of a conflict you could have a fighting force ready much quicker then possible if no-one had any training...

Faux 'news' article

Hahahahaha. hahahahahahahahaha *wipes tear from eye* Hahahahahaaahhaahahahahahahaah nice

there's no way i'd ever do national service
war is for evil people, and i'm not evil.

when i was in highschool there was a german exchange student there, telling me about national service and what they had to do. the army isn't the only option, he was setting up a free isp for his community (this was back in dialup days) and a few other bits and pieces of IT work.

Pissant countries like Denmark, Sweden and Iceland do.

What about Germany? Israel? Singapore? Malaysia? Albania? Armenia? Austria? Belarus? Bermuda? Brazil? China? Colombia? Cyprus? Egypt? Finland? Greece? Iran? South Korea? Mexico? Norway? Russia? Serbia? Singapore? Switzerland? Taiwan? Turkey? Ukraine?

Your ignorance is amazing.

last edited by ara at 17:22:52 19/Aug/09

As a libertarian, I believe a person should only join the armed forces if they want to.

There is nothing to be gained from national service because quite often war is a public relations mission, which is best served by people who believe in the cause.

f*** that s***.

I wouldn't do anything for this government, they don't deserve it in the slightest.

ffs, i agree with infi;

If politicians want to start fights let them do the fighting. If we are being invaded then yes I would, other then that fight your own f***ing wars I say.

As a libertarian, I believe a person should only join the armed forces if they want to.

ok why do we have to be quiet if we dont want to then

Not interested. Nationalism / Patriotism is what leads to wars in the first place.

If Australia was being invaded it would be a different story as that's actual defence of your life, but I have no interest in pushing US regimes onto Middle Eastern countries - I live in Australia. I also hate the Rudd government with a passion and I ain't dying on that nerd's say so for a cause that has no relevance to my life, my friends, or my family.

ok why do we have to be quiet if we dont want to then

because people are trying to read, now ssssshHHHHHHH!

If Australia was being invaded it would be a different story as that's actual defence of your life

Except we got no guns, right?

j/k ;)

why dont they invent a national pen pal conscription.. whereby everyone in this country writes a letter to some other country who could be a potential enemy and wishes them nice things and maybe buys them a gift,

i know a guy here who was from bulgaria and he had to do national subscription, he is a shrink and has no business being anywhere near an ak47.. but he did his duty and came back to NL.. just a waste of time if you ask me..

another guy i know was from turkey.. short lil fat computer nerd.. they have some deal that he could pay 6000 euros and get out of a 2 year national subscription - but he still had to do 3 months or training.. total waste of time and effort as well

it will never happen in australia.. all we need to do is keep sucking up to USA and if we ever have a problem the yanks can come die to protect us

GO USA

The scheme in America could be "Serve". On that website it's described as National and Community Service, so it could be confused for National Defence Force Service.

last edited by Triamks at 19:00:29 19/Aug/09

Anti-Terror Laws the take away our freedoms are a de-facto form of Conscription.

the draft was banned in australia back in the 70s so i dont think its gonna happen any time soon.

haha Spook how dirty to you feel right now?

I don't believe in it because it removes personal choice.

However, I support the optional gap-year programs. A bit of discipline and patriotism in the next generation wouldn't go astray.

Have you every worked in a supermarket or fast food chain where no one wants to be there? Now imagine those people defending our country.

A military full of people who don't wont to be there. No thanks.

"As a libertarian, I believe a person should only join the armed forces if they"... Smash down the recruitment centre doors, kick their way into to the office, bite the front of the counter off, chew it up and spit the nails through the enemy.

"I need soldiers!" Sarge - Doom (the moofey)

or

Why not a three session ETQW campaign - Winner takes all =)

what better way to turn those self-pitying gimps into something worthwhile than to give them something useful to do, focal!

If i had to do it, I'd be a sniper for sure.

Funny how everyone says, oh oh oh i'll be a sniper.. I bet barely anyone on here could properly shoot a rifle and shoot one to hit a target at a great distance..

/ignore this post

I think it was a joke Damo.

my son just got into the sniper course, he starts it when he comes back from timor later this year
he is pretty stoked

My cousin did the sniper course early on in his military career.

Apparently there's A LOT of waiting/hiding in the training, sit in the same spot for 12 hours before you take 1 shot.

Screw that.

it's probably more for recon and spotting than shooting

I think it might be a good thing to sort out the decaying state of the younger generations, if it was only a year or two, as it introduces some good concepts like discipline and ambition, whilst also teaching some trade/career skills. Far better then just having them as jobless losers that come out of school and do nothing except go onto the dole, if that's all they're going to do why not send them to war?

I cained the sniper mission in cod4.

It wouldn't work here. Imagine having a bunch of dero bogans running around with guns. Plus would you want to put you life in the hands of someone who doesn't even wanna be there?

I think it's a good idea to build character I guess and learn some discipline. If Australia was under attack then I'd be for it but if it was for invading some other country the Government can get f***ed.

i was actually thinking of doing the reserves, went and did their aptitude test and got my results.. i can be almost fkn anything..

trying to decide between rambo (commando) or maverick (pilot)... tough choice :|

I'd vote yes because the quicker we get all the backward countries changed over to democracy by posting our forces in their country, the sooner we can get on with progressing instead of all the irrational, religious fighting

I love your simplistic warmongering views jim.

what sort of a bite is that sposed to be
ffs!

I cained the sniper mission in cod4.

Holy s***. Did you just take a thread about real life shooting on a gaming forum, and then somehow relate it back to some game you played in a humorous fashion? Could you please pm me some of this fresh new material?

PS - Someone has already made that same joke in the thread already you s***kunt.

My old man did National Service when he was younger and said after day to day life on the farm it was the best holiday he had!

That said, who says if National Service was reintroduced that it would have to be a Military deployment?
Don't you think that there is a lot of stuff internally in Australia that needs fixing BEFORE we even consider another countries needs.

I'd be all for it, especially if as one option, it negated HEX and paid for your University Degree or left you with a Trade.

Holy s***. Did you just take a thread about real life shooting on a gaming forum, and then somehow relate it back to some game you played in a humorous fashion?

Holy s***. Did you just take something way too f***en seriously?

Oh and screw going to the army, I wanna be a rock god (no literally, and yes I understand it's a terrible idea).

if on dole > 6months = service.

if i could do it all again, id join the airforce and be a helicopter pilot

Pissant countries like Denmark, Sweden and Iceland do.

pissant? those are some of the best countries in the world.

best in terms of collectivism, sure.

and food, lifestyle, health care, life expectancy..

I'd be all for it, especially if as one option, it negated HEX and paid for your University Degree or left you with a Trade.

Yeah if it did something useful it'd be great. Just set it up as a couple of extra years of school where we get a bit of free labour out of people.

Conscripted military service is a horrible idea though. Soldiers, even conscripted ones cost money and we are broke as s***.

I have sight problems (too much computers) and definite hearing problems (playing too much drums) so I don't know if they'd want me on the team

The Labor party ended National Service in 1972 they would never introduce it again. Howard tried to but ended up changing what service in the Reserves meant (deployment overseas instead of just Australia). The ADF doesn't want Nashos they want volunteers, people who want to serve. Gen X, Y aren't into giving therefore they aren't into service.

Most jobs in the ADF don't translate to the civilian world. If you aren't in a technical trade like comms or computers you aren't likely to get a job except dog catcher or medical courier. The ADF isn't upwardly mobile.


If I had have known then what I know now I would never have enlisted.

I have sight problems (too much computers)

You're just getting older dude, some people lose visual acuity as they age. Unless you stare at ancient 25hz monochrome screens computer use shouldn't really matter?

Aside from leftover damage from optic neuritis I have stellar vision and have been glaring at computer screens day in day out for over a decade.

Your all forgetting one important factor, australia does not have the budget to sustain manditory service, thats a few million people requiring basic training in which the government does not have the funds to throw about, considering most will be piss poor for the job:
reference this idiot http://dontworrysir.ytmnd.com/

kids these days have no respect, goal setting skills, attention spans, responsibility, manners or social intelligence.

schools are failing our next generation because those dead heads who cant read/write, add/subtract in year 11! arent made to repeat the material they obviously havent learnt until they pass. and no its not the teachers fault (although they have a part to play) its the system in place for child progression through the schooling years.

it is 100% impossible to make a kid at a state school repeat a grade due to failing the content. and its all come about because of overcrowded schools and a bums on seats approach to schooling.

*** im getting to how it relates to conscription soon ***

there are still kids who have stable families and good parents who encourage and value education and they manage to succeed in society and become active contributors to it.

however most kids, these days, come out of school with the following ideas:

1) if someone gives me a deadline for something its not a dealine just a suggestion on when the task should be comeplete i can do it when im ready with little to zero penalty to me personally.

2) if i dont like what someone is saying to me i can just tell them to get f***ed, become violent and all that will happen to me is i will sit in a room think about what ive done and then be rereleased into the environment with a bit of paper i signed saying i promise not to do it again.

3) adults who are in positions of knowledge/power (i use the term loosely) eg. teachers, grandparents, police, parents, community leaders etc arent worthy of my respect and if i dont like what they tell me refer to point 2)

4) i dont need to have a goal in life or have to get a job if i dont want to. the government will pay for my existence so long as i pretend to look for work im clearly not qualified to do and get rejected.

5) everyone should respect me and my opinions as I should not have to earn it and i yes i do know everything and no one can tell me different. if they try to refer to point 2)

6) good manners dont exist i'll say what i want, to who i want, whenever i want, in the manner that i deem acceptable. if they dont like it 2)

i could keep going but ill get onto the point ....

first and foremost kids should only go to the next grade of schooling if they pass english and maths.

1 year of mandatory military service should be a law in australia for those students who have failed to achieve acceptable grades in schooling or displayed excessive innaproprite/violent behaviour up to and including year 12. How it works in a nutshell is if you are a violent sob at school and you decide to leave in yr 10 its 1yr service. if you fail to pass english and maths and leave in yr 10 repeat until you pass or its 1 yr service. if u stay on to year 12 and fail you repeat until you pass or its 1 year service.

the reason why military service i believe would work towards fixing the problem is that it would correct (in most not all) kids their crap attitudes to life and society, teach them respect, goal setting skills, team work, manners, pride in being the best person you can be, attention, socially acceptable behaviour/skills, responsibility etc...

these oxygen thieves that polute our schools with violence and come out of grade 10 or 12 not being able to read/write/add/subtract arent worth the centrelink tax dollars that allow them to exist. our global gene pool is being poluted with s*** and when they have their 12 kids to 10 different partners who picks up the tab? society.

its not everyone and i realise some kids have special needs/medical conditions that proclude service or success at school but im sure you all know the kids im talking about.

its a f***ed school system but i think mandatory service will fix a great deal of personal issues these kids have and made the australia we live in a better place.

feel free to attack my spellin/grammar etc but im sure you get the point

So you want kids who are violent armed and trained in the ways of war?





ffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuck yeah I like this idea brospeh

Aside from leftover damage from optic neuritis I have stellar vision and have been glaring at computer screens day in day out for over a decade.

Well by sight problems I mean short-sightedness and astigmatism so *with* glasses I have velociraptor binocular vision but without, I can't read 20pt more than a metre or so.

A mate of mine uses computers all the time and has perfectly fine vision. Ahh well.

kids these days have no

Sorry i stopped reading at that point.

kids these days have no respect, goal setting skills, attention spans, responsibility, manners or social intelligence.

schools are failing our next generation because those dead heads who cant read/write, add/subtract in year 11

Its amazing how I remember people saying this about my generation when I was in Year 11. My Dad recollects that his old man used to give him a hard time about being a hippy longhair.

Now I feel like sitting on the veranda with a shotgun to get those damn kids offa mah lawn.

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

ATTRIBUTION: Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato, according to William L.
Patty and Louise S. Johnson, Personality and Adjustment, p. 277
(1953)."

MOAR

Here's another one:
"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and
respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise
[disrespectful] and impatient of restraint" (Hesiod, 8th century BC).

EVEN MOAR

"The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of
today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for
parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as
if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is
foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest
and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress."

Who wrote that, and when do you think it was written?... it is an
extract from a sermon preached by Peter the Hermit in A.D. 1274!

Source: http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=408989

Edit:

Well by sight problems I mean short-sightedness and astigmatism so *with* glasses I have velociraptor binocular vision but without, I can't read 20pt more than a metre or so.

Yeh but that's just your eyes - there's no scientifically backed link between poor eyesight and computer use. Headaches, eye strain, dry eyes etc yes - but lasting damage (short/longsight) is not cauused by computer use.

last edited by Hogfather at 12:04:20 20/Aug/09

greazy its not the whole lets train violent kids how to kill and be more violent.

its the military mindset of what makes an effective person.

im sure you have heard of boot camps which deal in teen issues etc before. thats what im talking about in respect to skills they will learn with service.

also yes the current military budget cant bank roll mandatory service but the small cost of fixing the problem early on will be well worth the social cost down the track

You can't just throw any kid at the army and how they'll come out a better person. Try and remember these kids are violent for a reason.

You can't just throw any kid at the army and how they'll come out a better person

Why not? We expect this outcome from jails don't we? IMO in terms of rehabilitation its probably a better option than incarceration for a lot of troubled youth. Have a look at the success of those work farms etc.

Mandatory? No. Optional way to make up a debt to society? I reckon there's merit in looking into it.

last edited by Hogfather at 12:08:21 20/Aug/09

Why not? We expect this outcome from jails don't we? IMO in terms of rehabilitation its probably a better option than incarceration for a lot of troubled youth. Have a look at the success of those work farms etc.

Jails still play the double role of removing someone from society BECAUSE they f***ed up. Whether or not they are fixed, they still did something bad and society was protected for X months while they were locked away.

If a person does not join the armed forces voluntarily, then in essence it is simply another form of institutionalisation.

Prisons are dangerous, if you are not a hardened criminal before you go in, you will be by the time you get out.

Armed forces can be a great career, I met a fellow the other day who is 32, a Major, and earning 120k a year. He chose to be in the army.

If we are short of cannon fodder for some impending conflict then the government will do what it has to but why institutionalise people every day of the week.

you may say that the disciplinary and rigid routine aspects of national service are a plus for a lost soul, but the bottom line of joining the armed forces is to kill.

Jails still play the double role of removing someone from society BECAUSE they f***ed up. Whether or not they are fixed, they still did something bad and society was protected for X months while they were locked away.

I'm not talking about cases where jail is used to protect society. There are many people in jail who don't pose a real threat to the community.

For example, weekend detention is entirely punitive or rehab-based as the individual is still at large. Part-time jail could serve to harden a person who could otherwise be 'saved'.

Bad Lads Army.

Yeah war waged by humans is slowly being phased out.

Say hello to our new Robot Soldiers! -> Skynet :(

The reason I am so anti this in Australia is because we get involved in bulls*** conflicts that I don't think 'national service' forces should get involved in - ie. only people who want to join the army to fight peeps and shoot other peeps should be going.

In 'pissant' countries (neutral countries where national service means defending your own country, which is never attacked anyway) your chance of actual seeing combat are nill and you are actually doing national service. I don't believe that in Australia it would be beyond corruption and you would wind up having people doing national service being shipped off to fight other peoples wars. - f*** THAT.

So no, it should never be done in Australia because we like getting involved in other peoples s*** cause we like giving our lunch money to the big boys.

We also have too many tough c*** bogans that don't listen and if people smart enough to get into science at uni (don't have to be very smart but smarter than the average c*** on the street) can manage to f*** up so spectacularly in practicals there is no f***ing way I would want to do anything as potentially deadly as playing army with a bunch of plebs.

last edited by qmass at 13:41:54 20/Aug/09

i think that if the army represented a wider spectrum of society then they wouldn't be sent on political assignments like iraq. it is only that the government can get away with it at the moment that they do it.

when the pm's son or daughter is being sent over lets see how keen he is on the idea.

when the pm's son or daughter is being sent over lets see how keen he is on the idea.

you think that their children would be infantry? they would be supply officers or some s*** :P

That said, who says if National Service was reintroduced that it would have to be a Military deployment? Don't you think that there is a lot of stuff internally in Australia that needs fixing BEFORE we even consider another countries needs.

I'd be all for it, especially if as one option, it negated HEX and paid for your University Degree or left you with a Trade.

This is close to my thoughts. I wouldn't be opposed to National Service if it was mandatory (with a few obvious exceptions), so included the flat footers and those with poor eyesight. However, I would stop thinking it is a good idea if military deployment was compulsory if our troops were deployed somewhere new. For me to support it, National Service people would have to enlist in the ADF before being deployed overseas.

Theres been a few doco's on recently about the new warfront of hacking.

Apparently China and Russia are constantly hacking the s*** out of the Western Governments.

They could probably launch a cyber attack on America and completely shut the place down without firing a single bullet.

trouble with bringing something down is that they now know you are there.
Better to keep going in and spying and leaving no trace when you exit.

Like what Aliens do.

hahaha i get it

lol