Don't suppose many of you will be interested as some have more hard hitting real world issues (building lego batman mobiles) but nonetheless:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/zeezee/rally.jpg

I look forward to reading all your anti terrorist responses in this thread (against israel).

hi infi

really, what do hamas expect israel to do?

as far as my news reports, irael wasnt blowing up civilians before hamas started pointing their home made fireworks at israel

so, im going to blame hamas for this one

im also going to register my vote for thank f*** i live in australian and dont have to suffer through all this s***, as i woudlnt like it very much, i prefer my house unasploded

Damn you boxhead. I'm capped up my ass.

Can anyone host it for me elsewhere?

edit: nm i got there eventually.

last edited by MatchFixer at 10:32:41 02/Jan/09

f*** yeah. lego batman modellin... oh wait

It's a total mess that I don't see ending in my lifetime :(

Booyah - are Palestinians looked down by the greater Arab world? Egypt really don't seem to care about them (border guards fired warning shots to stop them entering when this latest Israeli offensive began) etc.

Sick, I'll come in my WRX

How could you possibly think some little protest in this backwater country will make any difference, when all the worlds superpowers, from both sides can't do anything about it?

Yep, seems like this time round hamas was chucking random missiles into Israel for a while - what did they think Israel would do? Sit around whinging about the heat like us? Not a chance.

*** Warning: bible quote ahead! :) ***

The Israelites should've obeyed God back in the day. He warned them:

"But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land, those you allow to remain will become barbs in your eyes and thorns in your sides. They will give you trouble in the land where you will live."

- Numbers 33

From this mornings Australian:

Leaders of the Palestinian Authority, Egypt and Saudi Arabia has put the responsibility for current violence squarely on Hamas.

What a surprise... not.

I f***ing hate this whole Israel crap, I hate that America supplies them with arms. I hate that most of the worlds terrorist problems stem from this. But there is no way *any* fully armed country is just going to just sit there and accept random rockets being fired at their cities.

Clearly the middle easterns want to know our opinion on this before they do anything.

oh man, i was thinking what reload was thinking. sweet, i'll bring a cortina with a rollcage and giant spotties.

I really don't know anywhere near enough about the history and current situation to even begin having an opinion.

Hamas and Fatar should get their act together and create a new regional superpower called FATASS.


Seriously though, this is way bigger than us. The only people in the world who can do something about it keep deciding not to. I hate seeing innocents getting killed or injured, but random rocket attacks are not helping their cause.

Sick, I'll come in my WRX

Yeah that was my first thought too.

hamas can get f***ed, yea boy

Maybe Jordan, Syria, and Lebenon shouldn't have picked a fight that they couldn't win.

As for the Palestinians, why should Israel give up land that other countries lost. If the local Arabs feel for their plight so much, why don't they let them into their borders. Oh wait, that's right. Arabs are hypocritical f***s.

ill be there.



lol sif

Brisbane Rally on Sat. 3rd Jan

Bloody hell the poster looks pretty aggressive and in your face (like all other protest posters in existence). I guess that's what they were aiming for, but they don't understand that people have a negative reaction to other people yelling and broadcasting their views to everyone else.

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen a bunch of protesters go by yelling their heads off and I had no idea what they were protesting about. gg effectiveness.

I fully expected like a WRC rally thread :/

Israels days are numbered. It can no longer rely on America for free money and free weapons. Russia is arming its neighbours and Israels Air Superiority will soon be negated this year once Russia gives Syria S-300s. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/124719
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-300_(missile)
Iran is recieving them right now and Israels chance to attack the Iranian Nuke sites has all but passed.

The Russian Naval Fleet is to start building the largest Russian naval base Outside Russia this year in Syria beside the Mediteranean. This will give Syria an umberella of protection from Israel.

While the US has had incompetent leadership in the last 10 years Israels has been worse. Israel clearly put its faith in America demolishing Iraq and quickly ending Irans ambition. No Saddam has lead to a stronger Syria and immensely stronger Iran.
Israels only option now is peace with its Neighbours.

Conspiracy post: America refused to attack Irans Nuke sites earlier this year and so in response to this the worlds Jewish Banking Masters collapsed Americas economy.

On another note ... was reading last night that India and Pakistan are on a hair trigger for Nuclear War. Its estimated that if either country launches a Nuke attack that the other side will have 2 mins to respond.
TWO.....MINUTES....TO MiiiiiiidNiiiight

I reckon Israel are going in and doing the dirty housework before the new man about town assumes the mantelpiece.

Tis such a clusterf***. And then there's the end of days religious nutter aspect as well.. Can't end well. Good thing the Yanks are in there stirring up the hornets nest huh.

Another vote for the lucky country!

why would i support the people that started firing rockets first ?

Because those ppl had their land stolen.

Indigenous ppl - stolen land - Im sure youve seen it before.

Palestine is gonna get proper f***ed. Didn't the arabs learn from Hezbollah?

indigenous ppl - stolen land - Im sure youve seen it before.

And when they start chucking f***ing spears, Ill be against them too!

yeah i have, and look what australia has turned into. a f***ing awesome country because it was stolen.

Dude I know it sucks that many Palestinian Civys are getting killed by the Israeli's and I cant imagine how pissed off I would feel if one of my family members was accidently killed by a loose rocket. But, seriously those Hamas guys just dont seem to give a f*** about trying to find a solution when they keep up the 'Blow Isreal off the map' milarkey that sort of s*** doesnt help anyone.

'There's no such thing as a good war.'

Sick, I'll come in my WRX

nah you'd be out of place, most arabs are driving is200s and e40 beamers on 19's these days

I've seen a rally for this in both London and Dublin in the last week. Seems to attract a fairly vocal crowd.

They just need to supply both countries with free ekkies and then they can all hug and make up.

Listen to you lot, you're condoning the loss of innocent lives, 400+ of them.

Going on the offensive and killing the innocent is not going to solve anything and will only make matters worse. This war did not just start because Hamas fired a few rockets into israel. This war has been going on everyday for decades, ever since the brittish and the french helped migrate the israelies into Palestine and forced the Palestinians out of their land. The britts and the french then made israel an independent state in 1948 and then f***ed right off, america backed up Israel, and now all you have left is the mess that it is today.

Booyah - are Palestinians looked down by the greater Arab world?
It's a total mess that I don't see ending in my lifetime :( Egypt really don't seem to care about them (border guards fired warning shots to stop them entering when this latest Israeli offensive began)

They're not looked down upon they just don't give a s***, well not as long as those arab puppet leaders (such as the Egyptian president Hussney Mubarak) still remain in power.

Yet again a few local news reports have influenced the majority, which is not surprising. It's easy to say "yeah hamas started it and they deserve it", but you count the loss of lives: 400+ innocent Palestinians have died compared to the "several" isaraelies. Arab blood is cheap.

I'll admit and say that not much will come out of the rally, but nevertheless a voice needs to be heard and people need to be aware and that's the least that can be done.



last edited by MatchFixer at 20:16:11 02/Jan/09

How could you possibly think some little protest in this backwater country will make any difference, when all the worlds superpowers, from both sides can't do anything about it?

I didn't log on here to make a difference, but hearing more than some spoilt westerner's point of view on an age old conflict would be kinda good.


fek.. hearing that s*** made me think that I jumped into a time machine and some idiot gave Aussies from the 80's the interwebs to play with... again

Rocket attacks have been on and off for 10 years or more.
This is just punishing Arabs.
Israel knows where the missiles come from but they wont do anything about it because they will get their asses kicked.
Instead they punish civillians.

Egypt usually closes their borders in these situations because THEY dont want the Palistinians. Neither does Jordan nor Syria nor Saudi Arabia. Although Saudies and Kuwaitis use Palistinians as slaves/Servants.

The only country that stands up to Israel is Iran.
The punishing of Palistinians might be interpreted as Israel saying "Well we cant hurt ur Nuke sites but we can punish your Arab Siblings"

I'd like to go tomorrow but Im sure ASIO will be there filming everyone then matching the film to Photo Databases.
Thats how far our FREE country has fallen.

I'd like to go tomorrow but Im sure ASIO will be there filming everyone then matching the film to Photo Databases.
Thats how far our FREE country has fallen.

You sound like an alarmist.

Is any of this news correct?
1. There was a ceasefire in place. The ceasefire lapsed.
2. Hamas commenced aggressions.
3. Israel responded.

Or did Israel coomence aggression first after the ceasefire?

On an aside, during the Camp David negotiations chaired by Bill Clinton there was a 99% agreed position on an independent Palestinian state. This then broke down and the Intifada was declared dissolving any goodwill for peace.

I don't get why it has to be all or nothing. Arabs need to realise Israel ain't moving and they all need to live together.

I don't get why it has to be all or nothing. Arabs need to realise Israel ain't moving and they all need to live together.

yeah the problem is their emotional development A.K.A ignorance and failure at life. I take this from here:

Around this age, toddlers are developing an awareness of "self" and sharing can be especially hard. They know what they want when they want it, but their brains are not yet fully capable of understanding another person's feelings or point of view. In addition, self-control is also just beginning to develop. Though toddlers can understand what you mean when you say not to take something from others, they have a hard time keeping themselves from acting on their impulses.

and now we need to pass this on to solve the issue:

Here are some ways you can help them control their urges and resolve conflicts -

Provide lots of guidance and initiate sharing and turn-taking games.

Understand that toddlers are less willing to be compliant when they are tired or not feeling well.

Use distraction or redirection to calm or avoid disputes.

Model positive social and sharing behavior in your everyday interactions with children and parents.

You sound like an alarmist.

Cross-forum humor.
Cracked me up lol.

The fact is none of them really want peace because they both hate each other and the political power comes from that hatred. Both sides are stronger politically during this. Its the poor civillians that suffer.

The only peace would be if the Jews went back to Europe.
And thats how we got into this problem in the first place.

yeah, the middle east was just one big love fest until the jews arrived.

Damn jews, it's all their fault.

2 state solution or gtfo

yeah, the middle east was just one big love fest until the jews arrived.

Before all this the middle eastern countries were part of Aljazeera Al arabeeya and Al Sham but it was the f***ing Britts that came along and divided and conquered the middle eastern countries. They drew borders between them and gave them a bunch of flags to wave around in the name of nationalism. Since all the countries were divided they brought all the jews to Palestine. f***ing britts. If the jews have any beef then they should take it up with Britain for not making the proper transition as they agreed they would. If the jews have any beef then they should take it up with Germany and all the other European countries that exiled them, not banish the poor Palestinians from their own land. Why should the Palestinians settle for any less when they have been invaded, raped, murdered, tortured and held prisoners in their own country?

and for those of you saying the Palestinians should share, would any of you be willing to share Australia if say 230 million Indonesians were expedited and were forced to live in Australia? there's plenty of Australia to go around so why not share? and it's not because you want to share it's because you have to share otherwise you'll get proper f***ed by big bad America if you don't agree to do so. If you love your country then you'll fight for it, irrespective of cost, by any means necessary.

It's simply a violation of human rights to which the world is turning a blind eye on.



last edited by MatchFixer at 02:02:56 03/Jan/09

Israel knows where the missiles come from but they wont do anything about it because they will get their asses kicked.

Bahahahaha! Most f***ing retarded post I've seen in a while. You might want to consider the difference in military strength/options between what essentially amounts to a bunch of terrorists/freedom fighters/call it whatever the f*** you like vs a strong, industrialised, militarised and not to mention nuclear-capable nation.

Additionally, OP, stop being so f***ing idiotic. This conflict hasn't arisen recently, it is merely the continuation of violence that has been going on in the region since hmm... about 5000 BCE.

As for the latest round of violence, whoever asked the question about whether Palestine fired first after the ceasefire lapsed, Palestine (or Hamas, if you prefer) were indeed the primary aggressors in this round.

Personally, I think Israel are being rather restrained in their actions. If they so desired, they could wipe Palestine off the map without raising a sweat. The fact that at this stage they've restricted themselves to conventional weaponry and the targeting of (mostly) military targets etc shows a great deal of restraint to me, far more than what Hamas has exhibited.

Anyway, I could write more, but it's 1am and I'm going to go read a book. Enjoy your march of ignorance.

1. I didn't say the conflict arose lately. I specifically mentioned in post #30 that the conflict has been going on for decades (since the independence of israel as a state)

2. Over 400 innocent people f***ing died over the last week alone and you're telling me they're mostly targeting military targets. What's even more ludicrous is that fact that you're saying they're restraining themselves. Yeah killing western peace protesters, journalists and cameramen is so very restraining of them. I'd like to see what happens when they're not.

Talk about f***ing ignorance. Go read your book about how to become more of the filthy left wing capitalist pig that you are.


last edited by MatchFixer at 02:31:18 03/Jan/09

So why not learn? If throwing rockets into another country doesn't work, and shoving the other counter back doesn't work. Why do both sides continue to do it? It isn't like it is the first time it has happened.

the conflict has been going on for decades (since the independence of israel as a state)

Er, no, the conflict has been going on for a few thousand years. The creation of Israel last century was actually the restoration of Israel. They as a people were booted out of their country by the Romans and by the Babylonians before that.

and you're telling me they're mostly targeting military targets

You're talking about the most densely populated area in the world. To destroy anything without collateral damage is impossible. Those terrorists use civilians as a shield and then when Israel finally takes action, they use the civilian deaths as a political shield. Israel phoned people living next door to targets to warn them. They also dropped pamphlets to warn them.

Anyway, this latest round of conflict will resolve nothing. And the subsequent peace talks will resolve nothing. This problem isn't going away any time soon.

Will arabs ever be able to get over israel's existence? Or is it inevitable that these aggressions will continue to reoccur like groundhog day.

Assuming Israel ain't going anywhere what does Hamas actually want? (Israel destroyed, yeah I get it...)

It's sad ... but what exactly did hamas expect when they fired rockets into Israel ?

So what you're saying is, the death of half a grand of Palestinians was expected and was nothing out of the ordinary, and hamas (the only real resistance to the invading forces) should just forget about the blood spillage and pillage and give up what's rightfully theirs to Israel. I don't think so.

well, their plan of firing rockets into israel to annoy them and then having israel retaliate doesnt seem to be working very well

more suicide bombings to follow no doubt

So you're promoting a peace rally to prevent palestinian casualities while at the same time endorsing palestinian aggression. This is the hypocrisy of the situation.

haha, infi is right on the money

gg

Finally they are sending in ground troops to squash the rest of the those f***ing bugs


much love for the IDF <3


http://okieonthelam.com/images/IDF-babe-1.jpg

http://www.habitationofjustice.com/wp-content/uploads/IDF Babe.jpg

http://www.originsofourfaith.com/images/idf-women.jpg

http://timblair.net/ee/images/uploads/isrababe.jpg

http://stix1972.typepad.com/stix_blog/images/2007/09/04/israeliidfbabe.jpg

http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/photos/mideast/idfgirl.jpg

http://i14.tinypic.com/61nqa9c.jpg

Booyah I know you are going to protest against the innocent Palestinians being killed and I'd say all of us are with you on that, no question.

Putting aside the manys yrs of conflicts and interfernce from other Imperialist Nations for just a moment and dealing with the present situation, are you also supporting the current Hamas Movement and their methods? Or do you think it would be better for Hamas to dissolve and let the more moderate PNA to come back to full power and resume working on a peaceful solution.

Personally I think the poor starving buggers in Gaza would be better off if Hamas dissolved because at least the economic sanctions might be lifted.

In the initial attack some 80% of the dead/injured were 'police' and 'security forces'

Around day 4 it was reported that 10% of the dead/injured were children. This in a land where nearly half of all people are under 15 years old.

And you say they are indiscriminately killing innocent people? It just doesn't stack up.

Do you seriously think Israel looks inside a building before they fire on it ?
Hamas clothe Palistinians provide health care hospitals police schools food books.
All those are targets because all are Hamas.

Israels claim to their land is based around stories from the bible.
The Bible , a collection of stories stolen from other cultures and recreated as Jewish stories. Western Religions blind belief of the bible being a factual book has brought the jews Israel.
Mission Accomplished.

israel's claim to their land is based upon a vastly superior military

So it's OK for Hamas to kill Israeli civilians, but not vice-versa?

Both sides are dooches.

yet another case of religion needing to be banned.

hamas: kill the jews!!!
israel: kill the arabs!!!!


pathetic wankers.

Lets check the scoreboard ...
Israelis killed by Hamas rockets since war started...
Israelis = 4 dead
Palistinians = 400 dead.

Yes i can see Israel is suffering.

No government wants to criticize Israel because of the fear of retribution.
A normal Intellectual person might think to themself why is that so ?
Could it be that Israel has some kind of stranglehold over governments ?
What could be that stranglehold ?

Just why does .. Israel wield so much power in global politics ?
In global media
In global finances

You think all those Israelis who were living in settlement s***boxes in gaza give a s*** about your preposterous global jewish conspiracy?? They were recently displaced from their homes as israel completety withdrew from gaza... Srsly... Gimme a break.

These are just two super determined tribes and unless they focus on negotiation this is gonna be one hulluva bloody showdown.

gaza citizens voted for a movement whose objective is the destruction of israel

i'd prefer our government didn't have to take any particular stance on this conflict. hey israel no more $, we will trade with you like any other country

Since when do Israel hold huge amounts of power in global markets and media?

Perhaps its really Israel at fault in this global economic crisis but due to there power of the media, they're blaming it on the U.S.A!!!


I assume given you're call shenanigans on anything written in the Bible you must also believe that anything in the Koran is also bull? Or would you care to lay some hypocrisy down on us again?

How Jewish is Hollywood ?

How deeply Jewish is Hollywood? When the studio chiefs took out a full-page ad in the Los Angeles Times a few weeks ago to demand that the Screen Actors Guild settle its contract, the open letter was signed by: News Corp. President Peter Chernin (Jewish), Paramount Pictures Chairman Brad Grey (Jewish), Walt Disney Co. Chief Executive Robert Iger (Jewish), Sony Pictures Chairman Michael Lynton (surprise, Dutch Jew), Warner Bros. Chairman Barry Meyer (Jewish), CBS Corp. Chief Executive Leslie Moonves (so Jewish his great uncle was the first prime minister of Israel), MGM Chairman Harry Sloan (Jewish) and NBC Universal Chief Executive Jeff Zucker (mega-Jewish). If either of the Weinstein brothers had signed, this group would have not only the power to shut down all film production but to form a minyan with enough Fiji water on hand to fill a mikvah.
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/celebrity/la-oe-stein19-2008dec19%2C0%2C2313474.column

Hollywood is a little bit Jewish.

^ Grasping at straws. Do they make anti Palestinians movies if they do i have not seen one advertised , surely they would being in such positions of power.

who gives a f***

insom is a jew

Oh what, they are still fighting! Thought you guys were gonna stop it or something :(

i'm one of those white, blonde jews that don't get invited to the jew meetings about taking over entertainment and finance

That makes you a standard Jew.

Its the Zionist Jews that are the evil ones.

....And also those Illuminati ppl.

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/2009_dees1.jpg

where's the picture of the hamas mortars firing at israeli civilians?

that illustration is all wrong

the real missile would have "hows this for a rocket attack fags" graffitied on the side

You can tell it's fake because the people are way bigger than the jets.
IRL fighter jets are actually much bigger than your average person.

Edit: also, this thread is retarded, anyone arguing against what one side is doing and not also the other is equally retarded. The end.
Oh and while I'm at it, get rid of that damn reverse character from the thread title. :P

This video clip was taken with a mobile camera immediately after a terrorist Israeli air strike hit a busy market where kids with their mothers and fathers were searching for food to eat from one of the local markets early on Saturday 03, Jan 2009, Gaza.

http://www.kawther.info/wpr/2009/01/04/what-israel-does-not-want-you-to-see

YOU FOOLS! If only they had protested on Friday instead of being lazy and putting it off till Saturday then all the "indescribable terror of the Jewish state of Israhell" in that video could have been avoided!

i think israel should create a buffer zone. no jews, no arabs, no settlements just take another 1km and flatten it everytime these f***ers fire rockets into israel. the best qassam rockets only have a range of 10km so it wouldn't be long before they couldn't reach israel.

This video clip was taken with a mobile camera immediately after a terrorist Israeli air strike hit a busy market where kids with their mothers and fathers were searching for food to eat from one of the local markets early on Saturday 03, Jan 2009, Gaza.

http://www.kawther.info/wpr/2009/01/04/what-israel-does-not-want-you-to-see

more anti-jew libel. look familiar


last edited by hast at 06:17:34 05/Jan/09

There was this quote by some Buddhist guy (pretty sure he isn't Jewish). It goes something like this:

An eye for an eye will only leave the whole world blind

I saw a video from some of the Hamas leaders stating that they will fight back and it will be bloody and and stuff like that. You know what that will lead to right? Israel will just have more of an excuse to fight back, which will make Hamas fight back and so forth.
If Hamas didn't toss rockets into Israel then Israel wouldn't have had an excuse to go basaltic, and a much bigger backlash would have occurred from the world at large if they did.
Yes, atrocities have been committed by both sides. It isn't going to stop until one side mans up and stops it regardless of what the other does.

hast with the super comeback

The link i posted to footage from Gaza has been shown to acually be from 2005.
>.<

Hey dont shoot the messenger.


last edited by FaceMan at 16:59:40 05/Jan/09

The link i posted to footage from Gaza has been shown to acually be from 2005.

[insert tasteless joke about bombing Palestine into last week/the Stone Age/2005 here]

Let it go FaceMan. They'll never begin to comprehend what it is like to lose a family member in such a one sided war, especially since the same people prior to being mercilessly bombed were conintiously sanctioned, starved, raped and imprisioned in the biggest concentration camp the world has ever seen, i.e. 1.5 million paletinian people trapped in whatever is left of their country. All they could come up with is how hamas randomly fired a couple of home made rockets into israel.

What kind of civilised government bombards people who cannot possibly escape from the prision confines its army controls? How can keeping food and medicine from the people of Gaza protect the people of Israel? How can the impoverishment and suffering of Gaza's children –
more than 50 per cent of the population – benefit anyone? Does the collateral damage of women and children justify Israel’s security claims?

Terrorism is defined as "acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a lone attack), and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants". That is the pure defintion of "Israel".

Due to the narrow mindness of the majority of the people in this thread, and other than saying there will be a march held in queens park (saturday 12:30) on behalf of all the victims of Palestine, i have nothing more to say in this thread and you can lock away if you wish.


last edited by MatchFixer at 17:15:26 05/Jan/09

napalm could fix their suffering booyah

People are much like balloons, they are usually best when blown up.

Yeah i went napalm on your mum after climbing her sideways.

Watch me drive this thread to the ground.

Israel must work towards a new negotiation. This violence is totally pointless. They are achieving nothing. I accept israel's right to defend against rocket attacks but really a Palestinian state should be the main game here.

Booyah one column in The Australian suggested absorption of Gaza into Egypt. Do you think this is a good idea?

I love how Israel targeted military sites.. shame they look like schools, shopping centres, hospitals and so on.

One side is a military "defense" powerhouse and the other is a bunch of turka durkas with home made rockets that probably implode on themselves 50% of the time. All it is, is a nice excuse for Israel to continue with genocide because 60yrs ago they got a taste of it themselves and have had the poops about it since.

especially since the same people prior to being mercilessly bombed were conintiously sanctioned, starved, raped and imprisioned in the biggest concentration camp the world has ever seen, i.e. 1.5 million paletinian people trapped in whatever is left of their country

Despite the fact that they appear to be nothing more than a bunch of terrorists, Hamas are a legitimately elected government. As such, they have the rights and responsibilities of every other duly elected government in the world. The fact that they have failed dismally to look after the welfare and wellbeing of their citizens is in no way Israel's fault (or that of anyone else for that matter). Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_legislative_election,_2006

All they could come up with is how hamas randomly fired a couple of home made rockets into israel.

Firstly, it was significantly more than "a few". Secondly, the number of rockets fired is irrelevant, as under Article 51 on the United Nations charter, every member nation retains the right to defend themselves from attack. Source: http://the-peoples-forum.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=8075 (alternative link found as the WSJ article now requires a subscription to read).

What kind of civilised government bombards people who cannot possibly escape from the prision confines its army controls?

Again, this is not Israel's problem or responsibility. They are taking a legitimate action to defend their country and citizens from attack by a foreign government.

How can keeping food and medicine from the people of Gaza protect the people of Israel?

Humanitarian aid and food/medical supplies are actually being allowed through one of the checkpoints into Palestine. However, the medical facilities (hospitals etc) aren't able to cope with the number of injured/wounded. Again, this is not the fault of Israel, the responsibility of Palestine's elected officials - Hamas. Whilst Israel attacks are causing the injuries, they are a clear and obvious counter-attack to hostile military actions from Hamas, which they are justified in taking.

Does the collateral damage of women and children justify Israel’s security claims?

In a recent incident related to me by the former head of the Israeli air force, Israeli intelligence learned that a family's house in Gaza was being used to manufacture rockets. The Israeli military gave the residents 30 minutes to leave. Instead, the owner called Hamas, which sent mothers carrying babies to the house.

Source:http://the-peoples-forum.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=8075
Enough said?

Terrorism is defined as "acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a lone attack), and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants". That is the pure defintion of "Israel".

"Although deliberately targeting civilians is a war crime, terrorists firing at Sderot are so proud of their actions that they sign their weapons."

Source:http://the-peoples-forum.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=8075 I could look for other articles supporting it, but I like this guy's turn of phrase. Also, his credentials as a Harvard Law professor :)

the narrow mindness of the majority of the people in this thread

Translation: Other people who appear to be smarter than me and not just engaging in a knee-jerk reaction to the latest international protest flavour of the month?

Let's try a little bit of objectivity. How about we replace Israel/Palestine with Australia/Indonesia or US/Cuba?

Would you still argue that Australia or the US wouldn't be entitled to take military action against aggression by either of the other two nations? (taken purely for proximity and ideological differences between the nations).

Apologies for any typos or sentences that don't make sense. I'm a little pre-occupied rebuilding a server.

I accept israel's right to defend against rocket attacks but really a Palestinian state should be the main game here.

Agreed.

It isn't going to stop until one side mans up and stops it regardless of what the other does.

Yeah let me know how that goes.

The only way this conflicts going to stop is if the international community steps in.

And depending on which superpower walks on Gaza or Israeli soil first, it's either going to explode a powder keg or settle things down. Time will tell I suppose.

If Aussies spearheaded it I bet we'd handle things right.

last edited by Phooks at 19:46:26 05/Jan/09

Mel Gibson was right.

Hamas Rocket Causes Devastation In Israel...

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/deviz.jpg

that road is gonna need a resurface

So if someone throws a punch and misses you you walk away.
When they throw a second, and barely nudge you, you walk away.
After the 3rd it starts getting annoying.
4th you start to get angry.
5th you knock the c*** out.

Just because one side sucks doesn't mean that the defender should just sit back and take it.

faceman is an arab

I can only assume these two are Palestinian in ancestry the way they're so one sided and obviously bigoted in their arguments.

A Jew kicked sand in his face at the beach.

Booyah there are a few ppl in this thread who are trying to take an empathetic approach to this topic. Simply throwing you arms up in the air and having a dummy spit about the usual retarded comments that appear in any thread doesnt help the situation.

Dont tar us all with the same brush.

The link i posted to footage from Gaza has been shown to acually be from 2005. >.< Hey dont shoot the messenger.

Can we shoot the retarded person who posts inaccurate s*** to back up his stupid arguments?

Those 'peoples forum' links look a little dodgy to me.

Those 'peoples forum' links look a little dodgy to me.

Then go subscribe to the Wall St Journal and read it in all its original glory.

Can we shoot the retarded person who posts inaccurate s*** to back up his stupid arguments?

haha well when i posted the link it was Legit.
It was later that the site discovered it was a hoax.

Israel regularly attacks its neighbours it carries out political assasinations and kidnappings and uses weapons against its own ppl.

Replace the word 'Israel' with 'Iraq' and you get the reasons we went to war with Iraq.
Israel could drop a nuke on any country and the world would do nothing.

Israel could drop a nuke on any country and the world would do nothing.

What do you base such a wild claim on? If Israel dropped a nuke you can expect every arab country in the region to focus all their weapons on them. s*** would go down and expect Russia to have a piece of the action too.

What I don't get is, why do the Palestinians get so upset when they get blown up by israel? Surely it just saves them the trouble of strapping C4 to themselves.

hahaha oh nf

Israel could drop a nuke on any country and the world would do nothing.

You have ZERO credibility here Faceman.

Then go subscribe to the Wall St Journal and read it in all its original glory.

edit: oh I get it now.

Okay now those links look less dodgy.

last edited by fpot at 18:49:14 07/Jan/09

Dont tar us all with the same brush.

I don't care how far left you are. Hamas through the first punch.
Most kids learnt by 2nd grade don't pick a fight you can't win.

Israel regularly attacks its neighbours it carries out political assasinations and kidnappings and uses weapons against its own ppl.

Yes, we understand that Israel does indeed act like a dick.
Hamas, also, is acting like a dick.



You know what would REALLY piss off the world at large and make them take action. If Hamas did nothing, no firing of rockets, no bombs, no acts of violence what-so-ever. Then if Israel invaded it would be an aggressor act as opposed to a defensive act.

Hamas, by firing rockets into Israel regardless of damage dealt, GAVE a somewhat legitimate reason for Israel to respond.
Yes Israel has responded very heavily, much like Russia last year.

Most kids learnt by 2nd grade don't pick a fight you can't win.

Yeah but in this case its the little s*** picking a fight with the whole of seventh grade and then hiding behind the first graders who are going "wtf c***s"

Except bah, wasn't hamas democratically elected ?

So to complete your story grade 1 had a voted some retards to go pick a fight with some grade 7s they didn't like. Now the grade7s have come to sort it out.

You know what would REALLY piss off the world at large and make them take action. If Hamas did nothing, no firing of rockets, no bombs, no acts of violence what-so-ever. Then if Israel invaded it would be an aggressor act as opposed to a defensive act

Oh you mean like the Palistinians on the West Bank ?
yes clearly that works well.

last edited by FaceMan at 02:19:15 08/Jan/09

Who are they? If Palestine is at war with Israel then why should they be excluded?

Here, read some of these UK based commentaries and enlighten yourself a bit instead of asking useless questions:

How Israel brought Gaza to the brink of humanitarian catastrophe

Oxford professor of international relations Avi Shlaim served in the Israeli army and has never questioned the state's legitimacy. But its merciless assault on Gaza has led him to devastating conclusions

Robert Fisk: Leaders lie, civilians die and lessons of history are ignored

John McCarthy: If it was your home, what hope 'restraint'?


Robert Fisk: Why bombing Ashkelon is the most tragic irony


Robert Fisk: why do they hate the west so much

Norwegian doctor in gaza

The Arab countries rolled the dice and lost land, instead of destroying the Zionists. They weren't looking for peace then. Israel has now vacated Gaza but whether it chooses to vacate the West Bank is up to them.

This tit for tat is just costing human lives. The typical warfare philosophy of not going into a fight you know you can't win doesn't apply to Hamas. As was said in one of the articles, they glorify martyrs and rely on Israel's military retaliation to fuel a growing hatred of the Israelis which cements their political position in Gaza.

Both sides are just sacrificing the security of their civilians and peacetime to further their political interests. And Israel has much bigger guns, so Hamas has to know what the consequences are going to be any time this flares up.

last edited by infi at 13:59:29 08/Jan/09

seems like hamas just want one of their big brothers to step up to fight for them.

and it might happen, and there'll be 2 wars in the middle east.

seems like hamas just want one of their big brothers to step up to fight for them.

and it might happen, and there'll be 2 wars in the middle east.

Then there will be a very large, bright light and Hezbollah & Hamas will no longer be a concern for Israel (but the Hague might cause some concerns for Ehud Olmert & Co - but they'd probably accept that as the price of protecting their country).

I wonder if there isnt some other plan happening here.
Lebanon is being drawn in now.
The leaders of Hamas and Hezbollah tend to hang around Damascus Syria.
Israel might be trying to draw Syria and Lebanon into a situation where they either give up support for these groups or the threat of war.

New President that wont attack Iran ?
Time for Israel to expand "again"

CNN was caught out today distributing staged video as news. A man pretends to perform CPR on a live boy playing dead and CNN broadcast and distribute it to other stations.

For the sake of journalism the media need to take a big step back and stop relying on hezbo and hamas propagandists as their sources

They got burnt in the last leb war with faked photos, now video.

last edited by natslovR at 15:20:32 09/Jan/09

CNN was caught out today distributing staged video as news. A man pretends to perform CPR on a live boy playing dead and CNN broadcast and distribute it to other stations.

For the sake of journalism the media need to take a big step back and stop relying on hezbo propagandists as their sources

They got burnt in the last leb war with faked photos, now video.

rly? got links? that's amazingly f***ed up. Passing off faked news as real events should be a crime.

Passing off faked news as real events should be a crime.

It's not news though.

last edited by Reduaram at 15:52:02 09/Jan/09

Israel wont allow journalists in.
Not even their own.
Preferring to use the US idea of a pool of journalists getting the same info at the same time.

rly? got links? that's amazingly f***ed up. Passing off faked news as real events should be a crime

but killing 600 men, women and children isn't because said people democratically elected a 'terrorist organisation' to be in power...

AMIRITE GUYZ?


last edited by MatchFixer at 15:47:32 09/Jan/09

When you put it like that, yes :P

ok um, glad we agree..

shocking cynicism of a poisoned homeland Sara Dowse. January 8, 2009

And Hamas takes the passports of any journos there, but there'd be none brave enough to report anti Hamas news.. I mean heck, they were executing the injured in hospitals, and pallestinians that were transferred to israeli hospitals are too scared to give their names because they know what Hamas will do when they return home.

At least give me a link otherwise i'll regard what you just said as pure rubbish.

These 2
http://i42.tinypic.com/e9gruv.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn137/lexnaturalis/07262006.jpg?t=1231348260

and this:
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc193/dogdaze_2007/toons/060806FirstCasualty-X.gif

Pretty much sum up how I feel.

Both sides are c***s, Hamas more so then the other.

Both sides are c***s, Hamas more so then the other.

Yep, clearly justified by those cartoons AMIRITE?

Scooter - You don't think things would cool down if Israel ended the blockades against Gaza and pulled out of the West Bank? The way I see it, Hamas attack because they've already lost so much.

Tha cartoons I found after.
Hence how they "Sum up" not "Completly form and are the base for" my feelings.

I dont know how anyone can be so one sided in this Mess.
Hamas allowing it's people to fire mortars and inciting them to do so was stupid and an Act of War.
Israil killing hundreds on inocent civilians (even if by accident) is down right disgusting.

Mantorok: If that was the case, they sure have a stupid way of keeping what little they have/had.
"Hey here's an idea, we dont have much land left, lets piss off the people to see if they will take the rest from us"
They would have a lot more of my sympathy (they have some) if they wern't casting stones.

last edited by Scooter at 16:44:37 09/Jan/09

As opposed to Israel's: "let's bomb the f*** out of these people hoping they'd come to their true senses and realise just how bad hamas really is!!!".

But because i'm bored at work, let's play that propaganda cartoon game!@!@!@

http://b.imagehost.org/0549/AMNESTY.jpg

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/sm/custom/mmrlsjpg.jpeg

http://www.appletreeblog.com/wp-content/2008/02/cartoon-anti-semitism.jpg


last edited by MatchFixer at 16:55:12 09/Jan/09

2 dont work and the "Free-Palestine" flag dude has a Sling-Shot, not exactally a peaceful person.

The other is a dig at American stupidity (I think?)
Not really sure what it has to do with the topic at hand?

Right click, show picture (in IE).

america, israel, same s***, different smell.

Not really sure what it has to do with the topic at hand?

Since when has that (or logic) stopped either of these idiots?

As opposed to your logic of "hamas fired a few home made rockets that killed 20 people in 10 years and that's why 600 civillians deserve to die"

?

oh.. it all makes perfect sense now..

Gronk.

yeah just let them keep doing it. makes perfect sense.

Middle pic still doesn't work for me, work or home.
I've already said loss of innocent life was disgusting.

It's really sad that Hamas hides among the general population. If they would man up and identify themselves or hey, stop being c***s, so much bloodshed could be stopped.

If that was the case, they sure have a stupid way of keeping what little they have/had.
"Hey here's an idea, we dont have much land left, lets piss off the people to see if they will take the rest from us"
They would have a lot more of my sympathy (they have some) if they wern't casting stones.

Israel ended the ceasefire with a raid into Gaza back in November. Are they supposed to bend over and take it when someone sends troops over their border?

What do you want hamas to do? isolate themselves in the desert somewhere and put a big H.A.M.A.S on top of their rooftops like they do for helipads followed by "P.L.E.A.S.E B.O.M.B U.S N.O.W!.! T.H.E C.I.V.I.L.l.I.A.N.S A.R.E F.A.R F.A.R AWAY !.!.!

?

1.5 million of them are already jam packed in a few scraps of land.

Also if you're that keen then perhaps copy the URL of the image and paste into the address bar?

Only if you're that keen.



last edited by MatchFixer at 17:40:36 09/Jan/09

Oh i'm sorry. They did? Maybe you can point me to some information about that.

All the information I've been able to find say that Hamas broke the Cease fire, just were unable to kill anyone in the process.

Israel broke ceasefire by killing six

Israel agreed a six-month ceasefire with Hamas. Until December 27th, no Israeli, civilian or military, was killed as a result of rocket or mortar fire from Gaza.
None. Not one. And there was very little rocket or mortar fire out of Gaza until Israel broke the ceasefire in early November.

Wait, what? Either Israel broke the ceasefire, or Hamas Broke it...
But Hamas only broke it by a little bit and it's not like they killed anyone. Just because they cant aim, doesn't mean it's not broken.

Groups other than Hamas (like the Islamic Jihad movement) claimed responsibility for the attacks, and Israel responded to those attacks by closing Gaza's borders.

Just face it your country sucks and is full of stupid people and they are paying the price for that.

Oh cool, so you can show me a link to that information?

Also, links to the information that clearly showed that the Hamas government did everything in their power to stop these radical groups, that they would have to condemn (right?), from continuing to fire rockets/mortar rounds into Israel.

Hamas is committed to Israel's destruction so that evidence won't be forthcoming.

At least give me a link otherwise i'll regard what you just said as pure rubbish.

They discuss those issues i mentioned in the WSJ's 'Best of the Web today' from the other week in the 2nd half of their first item: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123066366430243153.html

in that article the link to the new york times on hamas murdering Palestinian hospital patients is wrong, in subsequent days' postings they corrected it to this: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/30/world/middleeast/30mideast.html?pagewanted=all

Here's a good video from Memri that lets Hamas representative tell you about their real aims.



Two state solution? What a great idea.

last edited by natslovR at 19:39:36 09/Jan/09

just read the story of rachel corrie. what a f***ing moron.

What kind of person stands by while that carnage is going on ?
you dont justify killing 100 palistinians because 1 israelli died.

Israel is very modern society that chooses to murder civillians.
It was such a horror when Serbia was murdering Muslims in Srebrenicia
But its ok when Israelis do it ?

The United Nations yet again proves its a bloated whore that does what ever the 5 permanent members from WW2 say.
Israel influence is so powerful it can do what it likes.
How can that be possible for a little 60 yrold state ?

David Icke can be a little 'out there'(maybe a lot) but this was an interesting read about Israel and its great friend.
http://www.rense.com/general84/isz.htm

choosing a side isn't the same thing as taking action. which is what those ism morons did (and presumably still do).

couple of things. its not ok for israel to blow up militants with the chance of civilian casualties, yet its perfectly ok for hamas/whatever to target civilians from the outset? atleast from what i understand israel tries to avoid civilian casualties, most of the time.

also, israel was created by the UN. i'm sure it'd make things easier to have a UN recognised palestinian state, but that isn't going to happen so long as its government is run by terrorists. so thats the fault of the palestinian authority itself, not israel.

Faceman do you really think that HAMMAS or whoever in Gaza firing the rockets didn't intend to kill more than 1 Israeli ????? that's what started all this s*** in the first place. Does anyone know how many rockets over the last say 6 months were fired into Israel.

War isn't the answer for either side , war is brutal and innocent people pay with there lives (on both sides) because of religious hatred .

atleast from what i understand israel tries to avoid civilian casualties, most of the time.

Well they must be very s*** at it because they happened to kill 600 people in the process, and that's excluding people like the UN truck driver delivering humanitarian aid that was killed just 18 hours ago.

How is shooting at humanitarian aid workers, cameramen, journalists going to solve anything? it's counter productive and is only going to cause more problems to say the least.

How do you people even have the conscience to turn a blind eye to such injustice committed on a massive scale? is it your perception of muslims/arabs as unciviliased terrorists as opposed to the 'peace loving democratic pro western israel' that is being spoon fed to you by the western media? i just don't understand. It seems that way especially when spastics like f***poof say something like "your country sucks and is full of stupid people and they are paying the price for that." Seriously it's pathetic. what a f***ing munyak.


last edited by MatchFixer at 21:41:15 09/Jan/09

on another issue, booyah, do the palestinians really consider yassah arafat to be a traitor?

when he attended the 2000 camp david peace talks, had the remaining obstacle issues been resolved, and a palestinian state been negotiated would that have ended the muslim commitment to destruction of israel?

Who gives a f***? Let them blow each other up.

Even the UN has pegged the estimate of "Non-combatants" to be around 70-80 people.
So really they have killed 70-80 people and 520 'soldiers.'

Yassar was an easily controlled fool that gave Israel something to use to control Palistinians. Towards the end most Palistinians grew to hate him and considered him worthless and somewhat of a traitor.
Like most leaders in the Middle East he became corrupted.

Israel was created because Europe did not want the jews.
Britain wouldnt take them America wouldnt take them and Russia wouldnt take them. Nobody wanted them. Europe was a nasty place in the first half of last century and Jews seemed to always be targeted when things went wrong.
And so the British satisfied the conditions set out in the Torah whereby once 6 million Jews died God would return the jews to Israel.

In a way you could say Israel benefited from WW2.
That gives an interesting perspective on what caused World War 2.

I don't claim to know everything about this age old dilemma but as far as i'm aware the majority of Palestinians considered him to be a traitor (those other than PLO/Fatah anyway). This is because said Palestinians believed any negotiations with israel would mean that they would get the short end of the stick anyway and were not going to settle for less than what they have already endured and lost. The Palestinians were not going to agree on issues such as the insignificant amount of territory offered by israel or the small number of Palestinian refugees that were able to return safely to Palestine. It was the PLO lead by Yasser Arrafat who agreed to recognise israel as a state, thus angering the majority of Palestinians who had been previously affected by israel's invasion and mistreatment of the Palestinian people. This as a result caused a shift in momentum for the support for Hammas, who claimed to achieve freedom and win back whats initially theirs, be it through politics, military, insurgency, resistance, whatever you wanna call it.

last edited by MatchFixer at 22:51:59 09/Jan/09

Faceman, the current population of Israel is just over 7m (76% of which are Jewish) according to CIA factbook. So you are arguing that the Jewish Illuminati in their wisdom, sacrificed the lives of 6m jews in WW2 by allowing genocide and concentration camps, in order to accommodate less than 7m jews in present day Israel?

Put the crack pipe down, srsly.


last edited by infi at 23:09:03 09/Jan/09

^^ military, insurgency, resistance, whatever you wanna call it. its called Terrorism and "spoon fed to you by the western media" and your not biased at all.

Faceman, the current population of Israel is just over 7m (76% of which are Jewish) according to CIA factbook. So you are arguing that the Jewish Illuminati in their wisdom, sacrificed the lives of 6m jews in WW2 by allowing genocide and concentration camps, in order to accommodate less than 7m jews in present day Israel?

I just stated Torah prophecy that seems to have become fact.

Its kinda hard to avoid killing civilians when hammas use them as human shields.

This as a result caused a shift in momentum for the support for Hammas, who claimed to achieve freedom and win back whats initially theirs, be it through politics, military, insurgency, resistance, whatever you wanna call it.

the use of suicide bombers and unguided rockets aimed at civilians isn't the same thing as insurgency. its terrorism. its indefensible. why the f*** are you defending it?

if it was a true resistance movement they would only be targetting IDF. you can't walk into nightclub with C4 strapped to your chest and say its the moral equivalent of israel's unintended civilian casualties. if israel was carpet bombing gaza, it would be.

Palistine says Jerusalem is Their capital.
The biblical capital for Israel is Jerusalem.
Thats what they want the most.
That and to destroy the Holy Temple and build a new one for the coming of Jesus.
Unfortunatly Masjid Al-Aqsa is part of the site,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiest_sites_in_Islam#Masjid_Al-Aqsa.2C_Jerusalem and is one of the 3 holiest sites in Islam and if the site was ever destroyed the Islamic world would go to Mega Jihad.

There cant be peace until one group has Jerusalem.
Thats religion for you.

Finally you make a sensible point.

So i was throwing rocks into my neighbours house (big f***en ones too) and then he came over and beat the s*** out of me.

What the f***, how is this my fault?

^ can someone explain to me what is wrong with that analogy?

anyone else think the german eugenicist may have been on to something?

November 2nd, 1917.

Dear Lord Rothschild,
I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet:
"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country".
I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours sincerely
Arthur James Balfour

That gives an interesting perspective on what caused World War 2.

No, but it does give an interesting insight into your deluded and tenuous grasp on history. Try reading a respectable history book.

That and to destroy the Holy Temple and build a new one for the coming of Jesus.

What? So the Jews (who don't believe Jesus was the son of God) want to build a new temple for the second coming of someone they don't believe in? Yeah, sure, that makes sense. What I don't understand is worrying about a certain location. God is everywhere right? So why should it matter where a temple is built?

As for the fighting, I think Israel is doing their best at defending their internationally recognised state from acts of terrorism while limiting the loss of innocent life. The civilian casualties are an ugly side effect of war and I really do feel for the Palestinian population enduring such conditions. That said, any nation who elects a government whose primary aim is to do war upon another country has, in my opinion, no one to blame when the consequences of such action come home to roost.

You don't achieve political change through violence without widespread sacrifice. This is the path the Palestinians have chosen and there is no guarantee of success. If all Palestinian-initiated aggression ceased, after a year or two the international community would likely demand that Israel relaxes border controls and assists in improving the living conditions in Palestine. Israel wouldn't be able to say "but they're still chucking missiles at us".

Unless the Palestinians can actually stop violence for long enough, their requests for assistance will be largely ignored and Israel will continue to simply get a light slap on the wrist from the UN.

What? So the Jews (who don't believe Jesus was the son of God) want to build a new temple for the second coming of someone they don't believe in? Yeah, sure, that makes sense. What I don't understand is worrying about a certain location. God is everywhere right? So why should it matter where a temple is built?

While he was wrong about the second coming bit, Jews do want to build a temple in the Holy Land.

According to Jewish stuff (some found at this wiki)

Jewish eschatology holds that the coming of the Messiah will be associated with a specific series of events that have not yet occurred, including the return of Jews to their homeland and the rebuilding of The Temple, an era of peace[3] and understanding during which "the knowledge of God" fills the earth.[4]

Gota love religion and their magics!

Looks like israel have a quota to meet.

804+ reportedly killed and and 3300+ reportedly injured.

How many more innocent lives are going to be taken away until one says enough is enough i wonder. Add another few hundred, what's the diff?

Like i said before, there is simply no justification for the murder of helpless men, women and children. Period.


last edited by MatchFixer at 10:30:45 10/Jan/09

While he was wrong about the second coming bit, Jews do want to build a temple in the Holy Land.

Yeah, it was the reference to Jesus that I was on about.

Gota love religion and their magics!

I agree. Religion sucks. It's just a load of man-made rules and traditions that oppress people and cause war. Yes, I'm a Christian, but Christianity is about a relationship with the living God, not a religion. I don't have to bow in a certain way or insist on killing people who disagree with me or venerate some obscure relic or statue that some random happened to stub his toe against back in the day. And I certainly don't need to go to a certain place or building to worship my God - He's everywhere.

But back to the topic, the current situation over there is nothing new. Various rounds like this have been playing out throughout my entire life (and longer) and what has changed? Nothing. It's time to try something new. How about peace, forgiveness and acceptance? Hey, it's worth a shot.

last edited by euphoria at 10:33:57 10/Jan/09

Religion sucks

This conflict is less about religion and more about politics. Israel doesn't seem to differentiate between christian Palestinians or even arab jews living in the area as they're also getting caught up in all of this.

How about peace, forgiveness and acceptance? Hey, it's worth a shot.

More easily said than done but believe it or not they've tried that. Personally speaking, i don't ever see it happening. Too much history involved for any rapid changes to take affect anytime soon anyway.

last edited by MatchFixer at 10:42:58 10/Jan/09

Like i said before, there is simply no justification for the murder of helpless men, women and children. Period.

And yet you've done a wonderful job justifying the random terror Palestinians have inflicted on Israel. I have this massive urge right now to find you and throw things at you and your family and friends until you try and defend yourself and then start screaming Hypocrite at the top of my voice.

This conflict is less about religion and more about politics.

Politics is religion for Israel - it's their promised land they're defending.

Personally speaking, i don't ever see it happening.

Yeah I know. Still, would be cool, wouldn't it?

Yes, I'm a Christian, but Christianity is about a relationship with the living God, not a religion.

Ummm. What? It is a religion, just some versions of Christianity are more relaxed about the rituals, they exist tho. Like Catholics and their eating of the Body and drinking of the Blood, bloody cannibals.

But back on topic, neither side is going to forgive. Just reading the posts above shows you that, imagine what it is like in Palistine and Israel. The ferocity of the hatred that some of them have for each other is profound.

Again, I never condoned the loss of innocent lives, be it arab or jew. It is people like you who justify the spill of blood because the people freely elected a democratic government hence you directly associate the cause of their deaths to it. I know this is a massive f***ing understatement (and incorrect one at that too) but surely Israel is *partly* responsible for the blood shed, to say the absolute least. I don't know how you sleep at night in saying otherwise.

I feel like i'm repeating myself here. Do and say as you wish i'm out.

last edited by MatchFixer at 10:58:14 10/Jan/09

I have this massive urge right now to find you and throw things at you and your family and friends until you try and defend yourself and then start screaming Hypocrite at the top of my voice.

now now no need to bring family into this.... your mum gives good head btw!

It is people like you who justify the spill of blood because the people freely elected a democratic government hence you directly associate the cause of their deaths to it.

Oh pretty please show me where I said anything of the sort, pretty please.

There are many kinds of Jews and their beliefs have some things in common.
The messiah is Jesus depending on your version.
Wheather all Jews believe this or not is immaterial.
There is a system being followed based on religous prophecy and Israel in a 'supernatural sense' is fulfilling the things needed in order for the messiah to return.
Conspiracy buffs would call this Zionism.
Its not about average jewish ppl much like most Muslims arent terrorists.

Im totally Athiest and believe none of it.

As for World War 2 if you watch a lot of movies you would form an opinion around Hitler being a mad man that conquered Europe. The truth is a lot darker and revolves more around the fear of communism that lead to his rise.
You need look no further than what happened after ww2 in Europe.

As for World War 2 if you watch a lot of movies you would form an opinion around Hitler being a mad man that conquered Europe. The truth is a lot darker and revolves more around the fear of communism that lead to his rise.
You need look no further than what happened after ww2 in Europe.

Erm... I see where you're coming from, but you're not quite right on this aspect. Certainly fear of Communism was a factor in the incredibly savage pogroms carried out under orders of the Nazi party, but the original rise to power by Hitler was much more heavily tied in to the unbelievably harsh reparations terms levelled against the Weimar Republic at the Treaty of Versaille and the hyper-inflation that followed. Hitler's rise was primarily based on restoring a sense of national pride (Nationalism) and rejuvenation of the workforce and economy by industrialising the nation on a scale never previously seen.

With the support of some very wealthy contributers.

and the best way to get jobs for your entire country is put everyone in the business of making war.
also, people are so much more unified and easier to control when they have someone to rally against. as gesthemene mentioned, the reparations for WWI gutted the german economy, the reichsmark was worth five eighths of f*** all and the jews have long had a stereotype of being well off financially. in such an economic state it's not hard to see they'd be the easy targets.

also, on the topic of nationalism, i lived in germany for three months as part of a school exchange in '00. national pride is a tricky issue for many germans today, not out of shame for the nazi party (which is considerable in the general population), rather out of knowing exactly how easy it is for national pride to become nationalism to become xenophobia and bigotry.

March was a big turnout, 2000+ people turned up in support, arabs, aussies, jews, you name it, even communists (lolwtfbbq).

Watch the 5 o'clock news.

any flag burning?

also: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/10/2462999.htm

500 protesters according to this source.

and 2000 according to this one:

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24895505-952,00.html

last edited by infi at 17:47:25 10/Jan/09

Nah.

Edit: 500 people? no way. Elizabeth st would've been filled from one end to the other. 500 people would've attended the previous rally last week when it rained.

Check the news and have a quick glance and you'll see.



last edited by MatchFixer at 20:59:49 10/Jan/09

There are many kinds of Jews and their beliefs have some things in common.
The messiah is Jesus depending on your version.

haha, you might want to check that.

He's not the messiah, he's just a very naughty boy.

http://www.kongregate.com/games/vivogd/gaza-defence-force

hahah

Do you guys seriously think that protesting against this stuff is going to

1) cause the australian goverment to react and kick some international ass to stop this
2) that our govermenet is actually going to say something to israil etc
3) that israil etc is going to give a stuff and that
4) the violence stops

because if you do, your a complete tool

the worst part is Australia opens its borders to these asshats then they bring there hate mongering and racism to Australia..

faceman why cant Palastine just get along with Israel - it never has to be an all or nothing situation.. both peoples care about there holy sites.. learn to share

I remember seeing a doco about Jewish settlers and how the Palistinies hated them.. it was pure racism and I have no sympathy for the Arabs.

take your hate mongering elsewhere read your bible.. love thy neighbour..

1)No
2)No
3)No
4)No

A voice needs to be heard. People need to be aware. Pressure needs to be put on.

Also haha faceman, ironically there's no way they you could win that game.

I remember seeing a doco about Jewish settlers and how the Palistinies hated them.. it was pure racism and I have no sympathy for the Arabs.

Superform what the hell are you talking about? Israel is an apartheid state just like South Africa. The slogan of Zionism (the ideology that advocates an exclusively jewish state in Palestine) since it began in the 1980's has been "A land without people, for people without land". That basically means that the jews view the Palestinians as non-people.

The Israeli PM Golda Meir said in an interview in 1969 something along the line of "it's not like we came along and threw out the Palestinian people out of their country, they simply did not exist".

If they didn't initially exist then why did he throw out 800,000 Palestinian in 1948 and took their land to exclusively form a jewish state? The Palestinians were ethnically cleaned in the same year. This was seen necessary by the Zionists because they wanted the jews to be the majority in order to form a "jewish democracy".

Isn't this the same racism/hate that you're talking about? the only difference is you formed your opinion in regards to an age old struggle based on seeing 1 obviously biased doco from the western media, which is just laughable.

Wait, i forgot to laugh, haha.

last edited by MatchFixer at 21:41:30 10/Jan/09

Israel is a state to which oppressed Arabs and Africans flee. Gays, intellectuals, woman and the oppressed flee their own countries and seek safety there. It is also a democracy and Israeli Arabs vote in its elections. Some even serve in its armed forces.

If you want an apartheid state you don't need to go the no-longer apartheid South Africa, there's a live one right next door in Saudi Arabia.

CNN have responded to complaints about their video being staged and said its not staged, have a look here yourself. You only need a basic understanding of how to resuscitate someone to see that the scene is staged. http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9pRu-sRPb0

"There were no such thing as Palestinians. When was there an independent Palestinian people with a Palestinian state? It was either southern Syria before the First World War, and then it was a Palestine including Jordan. It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine considering itself as a Palestinian people and we came and threw them out and took their country away from them. They did not exist."

The ANC in South Africa didn't bring down Apartheid with violence. They tried it for decades, planting bombs all over the place. Finally they sent people overseas to talk to foreign governments and the UN, asking for assistance (some of their people had been trying this the whole time). The international community applied more and more pressure only as the ANC used less and less violence.

The lesson to be learned from South Africa is that the Palestinians need to stop all violence against Isreal for a long time before true international pressure will be applied to Israel. Until then Israel can just use the missiles raining down on them and buses being blown up as an excuse for any action they take.

I'll say it again: the current action is nothing new. Attacking Israel didn't work in the past, so why should it work now?

Does Israel have a law against Arabs living in Israel?

^ Hmm thats why I think it would be better for the Palestinians if Hamas simply dissolved and handed power over to the PNA.

Then, and I stress only 'then' if Israel used any aggression against Palestinians they would get some serious pressure from the International Community. Because Hamas is branded as a Terrorist organisation the Israeli's can use these 'excessive' tactics with little or no regard for the International Community's concern over the civilan death toll because they can always use the excuse that 'Oh Hamas is a Terrorist Organisation, we're just defending ourselves against Terrorism.'

Hypothetically speaking if I was a Hamas member and I was genuinely concerned for the wellbeing of my people I would encourage Hamas to disband so that Israel couldn't use the excuse that Palestinians are lead by a 'Terrorist' group.

AFP are on the way slaps.

infi.. no and in the west bank they tried intergration for years.. the arabs turned on the jews who were living side by side with them only because they were jews.. f*** the arabs

my flatmate went to protest. she said, 'im going to that protest about that place. what's it called again? giza?'. lol.

You only need a basic understanding of how to resuscitate someone to see that the scene is staged.

That looks very suspect - the 'doctor' performing CPR is bouncing his body, but not pushing down on the child's chest cavity at all. As anyone has done their CPR knows, you're aiming to depress the chest in the order of 1.5 inches.

...and performing CPR on a patient with a heartbeat is very dangerous.

Vote +1 that was staged or that 'doctor' was utterly incompetent, not even able to perform CPR at a Senior First Aid level.

looks more like a reinactment - on the real dead kid.. classy

f*** the arabs

I'm sure the arabs would like to f*** you too.

Heres how Israel treats the Palistinians in the West Bank.
a giant 400 mile long Wall.

http://www.vtjp.org/background/wallgraphics.htm

it keeps the suicide bombers out.

hows that a bad thing?

it's to keep rabbits and suicide bombers out.

It's a clearly defined Boarder that Israel cant claim the land on the other side of the wall is theirs.
One can clearly tell which is Israel and what is Palistinians land.

Do you guys seriously think that protesting against this stuff is going to

1) cause the australian goverment to react and kick some international ass to stop this
2) that our govermenet is actually going to say something to israil etc
3) that israil etc is going to give a stuff and that
4) the violence stops

because if you do, your a complete tool

You're a tool. At least some people have some balls to speak out.

You're a tool. At least some people have some balls to speak out.

At least some people have the brains to think before they speak :)

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

Thats why ppl speak out against Tyranny.

Thats why ppl speak out against Tyranny.

I'm not attempting to prohibit you from speaking out against what you perceive as tyranny, but rather offering an alternate viewpoint.

I'm not going to butcher Evelyn Hall's (not Voltaire's) quote on tolerance, but I think you know what I'm trying to say.

You're a tool.

No, you're a towel.

i'll wait for the pro Israel march to speak out about arab terrorists and try to put an end to the needless violence

off topic but the other day i was watching shoot on site.. and they had this line..

not all muslims are terrorists...

yes.. but all terrorists are muslims

not all muslims are terrorists...

yes.. but all terrorists are muslims

What the hell is "shoot on site" and how are they so poorly informed?

(Tamil Tigers, IRA... just to name a couple of well known non-muslim groups labelled as terrorists)

IDF is in Gaza city now.
Hopefully this will be over soon.

yeah, to be fair jews have shot up mosques in jerusalem too.

the difference is its not government policy.

Early last year a huge car bomb killed the leader of Hezbollah.
http://www.imemc.org/article/52751
Blamed on Israel. A country that does Assassinations using its own Military.
Syria is also guilty of doing this however America doesnt brand Israel as part of the Axis of Evil.

Heres a few Israeli Terrorists:

Ariel Sharon : As commander of the notorious Unit 101, Sharon led attacks on Palestinian villages in which women and children were killed. The massacre in the West Bank village of Qibya, on October 14, 1953, was perhaps the most notorious. His troops blew up 45 houses and 69 Palestinian civilians — about half of them women and children — were killed

Yitzhak Shamir : In post-war British-mandated Palestine the words Stern Gang equalled "terrorism" — assassinations, bombings, the full works. ... Yitzhak Shamir had been the gang's operations commander. ... By appointing Shamir Foreign Minister, Prime Minister Menachem Begin had selected the organiser of two famous assassinations: the killing of Lord Moyne, the British Minister representative in the Middle East, in 1944, and that of Count Folke Bernadotte, the UN's special Mediator on Palestine, in 1948.

Menachim Begin : Menachim Begin took part in terrorist acts in the 1940s, including the attack on the King David Hotel which killed 91 people.
In 1946, Jewish terrorists agitating for their own state in British-occupied Palestine blew up Jerusalem's King David Hotel, killing 91. Two years later, an independent Israel was established. "There were a lot of innocent British women and children killed there," says Hanson. "But in the end, it worked; the British left." —

http://www.serendipity.li/zionism/israel_terr.htm

Hey look at that, they target enemy leaders? Rather then just blowing up anyone/civilians at will.

I guess thats one difference between 'terrorist' and 'assassin'. Not blowing yourself up is probably another subtle difference.

Early last year a huge car bomb killed the leader of Hezbollah.

what? thats not terrorism. considering hezbollah is a terrorist organisation itself, its at worst a political assasination.

also 1953? 1948? if you have to go back 50+ years to prove a point then i think you might be reaching for straws. in 1942 japan bombed darwin, australia should get them back for that hey. eye for an eye and all that.

Im pointing out the fact that terrorism helped Israel gain its state.
Hamas is following Israels 'stylin'

big difference. everyone was feeling sorry for the jews back then. and the place was held by the brits. they didn't want to be there in the first place.

If everyone was feeling sorry for the Jews, why didn't they just stand outside the hotel pouting rather than blow it up?

Cause its the only way to get s*** done.

i'm not worried about the palestinian state... they can keep trying to kill kids and women but at the end of the day every palestinian woman is pumping out like 10-12 kids like rabbits. Imagine how much hatred the palestinians have for the jews... especially the young kids who have grown up around bullets and bombs...do the maths.

*does the maths* that sure is a lot of dead palestinians.

fpot lets make love... not war

thats a change, you guys seem to be pretty good at starting wars

Well love and war are very similar for zub.

Visions of virgins, lots of sweating alone ... ends in an explosion.

also 1953? 1948? if you have to go back 50+ years to prove a point then i think you might be reaching for straws. in 1942 japan bombed darwin, australia should get them back for that hey. eye for an eye and all that.

We did. We teamed up with the super dooper American's and they bombed the s*** out of them.

I heard the nuke had "This is for Darwin" written across it ;-)

Yeah it's not like they would have written "this is for hawaii" or anything.


oh wait.

hahaha wd obes

"where are those 21 virgins that Bin Laden promised me?"

*does the maths* that sure is a lot of dead palestinians.

100,000?

Haven't really read this thread, and don't know if following has been posted..

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said a telephone call he made to US President George W Bush last week forced Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to abstain in a UN vote on the Gaza war.

Pouring on political bravado in a speech, Mr Olmert said he demanded to talk to Mr Bush with only 10 minutes to spare before a UN Security Council vote on Thursday on a resolution opposed by Israel calling for an immediate ceasefire.
"When we saw that the Secretary of State, for reasons we did not really understand, wanted to vote in favour of the UN resolution ... I looked for President Bush and they told me he was in Philadelphia making a speech," Mr Olmert said.

"I said, 'I don't care. I have to talk to him now,'" he said, describing Mr Bush, who leaves office on January 20, as "an unparalleled friend" of Israel.
"They got him off the podium, brought him to another room and I spoke to him. I told him, 'You can't vote in favour of this resolution.' He said, 'Listen, I don't know about it, I didn't see it, I'm not familiar with the phrasing.'"
Mr Olmert said he then told Mr Bush: "'I'm familiar with it. You can't vote in favour.'

"He gave an order to the Secretary of State and she did not vote in favour of it, a resolution she cooked up, phrased, organised and manoeuvred for. She was left pretty shamed and abstained on a resolution she arranged," he said.
Fourteen of the Security Council's 15 members supported the resolution, which has failed to halt Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip and Hamas's cross-border rocket fire.

Mr Olmert, under police investigation over alleged corruption, resigned as prime minister in September but is serving in a caretaker capacity until a new government is formed after Israel's February 10 parliamentary election

The speech read out by Condy seemed rushed and her voice was strangly stressed.
I imagine she did not want to be there and possibly had told other members she would vote 'For.'
By supporting the Israeli line it weakens Americas effort to get the Saudis to drum up local support to take on Iran.

America is at the moment loading an arms shipment which is the largest ever sent to Israel. It is full of Ammunition and new barrels for the tanks.
Looks like its Holiday to Lebanon very soon.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=CHO20090111&articleId=11743

Not many countries have the power to tell an American President what to do.
Still think Jews dont have much clout ?

last edited by FaceMan at 14:39:25 14/Jan/09

jews have plenty of clout.. thats why they can beat the s*** out of arabs

GO ISRAEL!

Get f***ed a******.

i dont understand.. you seriously didnt think that in a democratic country like Australia (that supports US) that you wouldnt find pro Israel supporters?

I dont agree with alot of what the US does but i do agree with them backing Israel on this issue..

Arabs need to learn to settle your battles with out terror and fighting - and know when to accept defeat

hey heres an idea, maybe if they stopped lobbing rockets into isreal they will stop too, man it aint rocket science

Get f***ed a******.

That will sure get your point across

its like what america did with the black ppl. let them kill each other, then come in and clean up ;)

man it aint rocket science

Well it is a lack of rocket science that makes it so their rockets do diddly squat.

light arms fire aimed at a tank doesn't do much either, but its a pretty stupid move to make.

That will sure get your point across

well you didn't seem to mind too much and kept your mouth shut when he said "f*** the arabs" earlier so i didn't think you'd mind me personally insulting him rather than insult him with a racial slur.

i dont understand.. you seriously didnt think that in a democratic country like Australia (that supports US) that you wouldnt find pro Israel supporters?

Support who you want but the way the western media portrays this one sided war as a conflict of 2 equal sides is merely pathetic, and you seem to base your opinions around a couple of local news reports and some cartoons you came across on google.

Here, have a light hearted read of Mark Steel: so what have the palestinians got to complain about?


last edited by MatchFixer at 21:47:07 14/Jan/09

Well it is a lack of rocket science that makes it so their rockets do diddly squat.

What are you talking about? They've got quality science teachers at UN run schools that make Hamas's rockets... From May last year: http://www.reuters.com/article/middleeastCrisis/idUSL05686115

No one likes to see innocent people dying (ok maybe a few sickos do but the vast majority of us dont)

That being said, i have less umm identification with the Palestinian/Hamas view point than with the Israeli viewpoint for one simple reason:

HAMAS (and several other states/groups in the surrounding area) have vowed to keep fighting until Israel is obliterated

Israel have at least tried to come to terms with their neighbours on repeated occasions (i.e. releasing known terrorists, removing jewish settlers from west bank, withdrawing from Gaza Strip etc)

So long as Hamas and others take that hardline stance (and continue to send 6500 rockets at israeli civilians a year while hiding amongst their own civlilans), i have less sympathy for them.

I would be curious to know however, if the average Palestinian actually wants this whole s*** fight to go on? Sure we hear the mouthpieces of terror speak periodically about their "struggle" etc, but does Mr and Mrs Arabsmith actually want all this s***? Or would they prefer just to have running water, hot coffee and a place to grow cabbages again? I wonder if the viewpoint we hear expressed as "palestinian" is actually palestinian and not just more propaganda

mark steel's article was just a sarcastic rant. if palestine had the weapons, they would go to town on israel. they want israel obliterated as far as i can see.

im surprised at how quiet Iran has been throughout this whole ordeal

That was a massive fail by Israel bombing near the UN hospitals. I don't care if the whole Hamas shebang was under the hospital .. bombing hospitals is something you just don't do.

That being said, no matter from which angle I look at it Hamas is such a fail organization.

Whoever said "An eye for eye makes the whole world blind" wasn't wrong.

the iranians aren't really fans of hamas/plo/etc anyway are they?

i know they gave cash moneys and weapons to hezbollah, but aren't they like s***e versus sunni or whatever. that said, the enemy of my enemy and all that.

Hamas is showing the world what Israel does to Palistinians.
who is winning here ?
Hamas.
The Gaza war is a terrible PR FAIL for Israel.

Its embarrassed America and that earlier article suggests it is deliberate.
Its made its Moderate Arab neighbours very angry because their own ppl see it as Jews killing Arabs and 'their leaders' are doing nothing.

Israel would love Iran to get involved.
But its not gonna happen = FAIL

America has now Delayed the shipping of more ammo to Israel.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1055098.html
why ?
The plot thickens....

last edited by FaceMan at 01:28:47 15/Jan/09

I have met people from both sides of this fence. People that have been directly effected (or effected on the periphery) by this stupidity that's been going on for as long as I can remember.

It won't stop. The indoctrination on both sides has been going on too long. Grandfathers on both sides are telling their kids, and their kids kids that the fight is right. They both believe fervently... religiously that they're right, and it doesn't matter what anyone says.

When I try and give these people a "world view" on this, they look at me like I have two heads. They can't even imagine a world where they aren't fighting. It's not like it's inevitable, or even hard, it just what they do. It's like it's hardwired or something.

As far as I can see, the only thing stopping Israel from killing every last Palestinian (or Arab for that matter) is the rest of the world saying "Ok, that's enough now, settle down". If the UN said "We give up, sort it out yourselves", Israel would go postal. Palestine would be a glass crater. The only reason for that is that Israel have bigger and better guns. If Palestine had bigger guns, they'd do exactly the same thing.

It stupid and sad and it doesn't matter who you think is right, there are still people dying over a chunk of land that only has meaning because a charming guy with a beard said so thousands of years ago.

That's all it boils down to.

Having said all that, I know I'm generalising. There are people on both sides that would love to just get along and share their precious piece of dirt, but they don't have a voice. They aren't saying what people want to hear, and therefore get ignored.

The question is how do we fix it?

Just let Israel nuke them off the planet I reckon.

it's the only way to be sure.

So to the obviously pro hamas side of this debate.

Answer this question in 1 word.
"Should Israel be wiped off the map ?"

The question is how do we fix it?

We can't. As far as I can see, one of them has to go. That's neither fair or realistic, so we're back at square one.

So to the obviously pro hamas side of this debate.

Answer this question in 1 word.
"Should Israel be wiped off the map ?"

No.

Now to the obviously pro zionist side of this debate.

Answer this question in 1 word.
"Should Israel be allowed to kill a 1000+ innocent people (1/3 being children) because their government is supposely a terrorist (yet democratic) organisation?


last edited by MatchFixer at 12:18:00 15/Jan/09

supposely a terrorist

false

No, they shouldn't be allowed to (intently) kill any innocent people. None at all.

I would like to know where you got the 1000 innocent people number from and the 1/3 children number from too. Other then un-named "Palestinian medics."
How many of that 1000 are Hamas 'soldiers'?
Palestine started the war. Sadly, as a result, they have to accept they there would be losses to their 'Military' personal. It's not Israels fault they all dress in Civi clothes and hide amoungst non-combatants.

Also, Just because they're democratically elected doesn't mean they're not Extreamist/Terrorists.

the fact they democratically elected a terrorist group to run their s***...

Yep, all you could've said was "terrorist" to get your point across, because that's the best excuse you'll ever come up with.

When you criticize the jews it's antisimitic, yet when you mention arabs in conflict you call them terrorists. It's too easy to use for boofheads like yourself.

I would like to know where you got the 1000 innocent people number from and the 1/3 children number from too. Other then un-named "Palestinian medics."

What and you'd think Israeli officials are going to release the exact number of innocent people that they've killed? frig that, how about the total number of miltants that they have actually killed? all they could say was they are in the "hundreds". How many hundrends? 10 hundreds? I mean the israelies are the ones shooting at the f***ing media to keep them out, if you're not going to take the word of the medics then who's word are you going to take? the same people that control the media? yeah that'd be right

I was more digging at your 1000 "innocent people" line.
I have no doubt the number itself could be reaching or has already passed the 1k mark. Where I dissagree is that all 1000 were non-combatants.

Something which it seems you've chosed to ignore.

I dont take the word of either side, and certinly not the media, who stage scenes and fake reports in order to make more coin.

Dude, calm down.

Most sensible ppl's here think that Israel is being heavy handed, no arguement there.
Hamas however is indefensible as it is a Terrorist Group(democratically elected or not).

The sensible thing is to support a moderate Palestinian Authority. That would take a s***load more power away from Israel than any number of rockets.

I am calm !@!^@&!@#!$@

In otherwords matchfixer you couldn't answer it in 1 word.

The rest of your crap ... violence begets violence.

When you criticize the jews it's antisimitic, yet when you mention arabs in conflict you call them terrorists. It's too easy to use for boofheads like yourself.

3 questions, because I honestly don't know the answers:

1) Does Hamas use suicide bombers to target non-military objectives to achieve its aims?

2) Does Hamas fire rockets into Israeli territory, either indiscriminately (ie, not aiming at military targets - whether it's because they don't have the technology or its intentional is irrelevant) or directly at civilian targets?

3) Does Hamas shelter military personal in civilian buildings (the thing I heard on the news the other night was they were camped out in a school along with civilians/children)?

why all the fuss?

i think a lot of people on this forum over-rate the value of human life and underestimate power of exponential grwoth. Most baby boomers have seen the world population double from 3 billion to 6 billion in the space of half a human life time. If Thomas Malthus were alive today he'd probably say something along the lines of "OMG that's some scary s***!" and then he'd look at the data for vaious resources food, land, water etc... and i'm sure he'd be impressed with the advances in technology, but i'm sure he'd then go on to say something along the lines of "OMG we're all f***ed".

You know deep down in your hearts that the only way out of this mess is a massive orgy of war, and that's great because we all love war when we can view it from a distance. You might protest, but what about the children! the women! (let's face it they're the worst offenders, children have a life time of consuming in front of them and women just breed more of the little f***s). We all know we're addicted to news-entertainment - I actually get pissed off when a conflict starts to stagnate or a cease fire is called. We all know religion is great for lubricating the gears of war (just because your god says something is yours doesn't make it yours, in fact it makes you nuts)

We all know all we can really hope for is decent script writers, decent coverage, 4% inflation and about 2 billions deaths before the next ice age kicks in.

Do you know what's more important than love? personal space.

so why all the fuss?
I really don't get it

I used to be a big supporter at least in my mind for the plight of the Palestinian people, there is absolutely no question that after the 6 day war they were persecuted by Israel and the rest of the world should have stepped in and delt with the s***.

It was the failure of the rest of the world at the end of this war that largely is responsible for most of the woes after it.

Having said that, the approach of hamas and indeed others, the use of terrorism and the cowardly way in which they continue to deal with this conflict is just stupid, any failure to acknowledge this by anybody just seems to me truly odd, and showing support for a rally such as this is just supporting more of the dreadful killing and terrorism continued by hamas.

You really do think twice before showing support for something like this. To put it in context, how would you feel if someone was lobbing rockets into your back yard every day - or that you couldn't safely take your children to school, I personally would want the Australian government to go invade the f***s and rip their hearts out, I wouldn't care who they were.

There was one case of a mother and children getting bombed I saw on tv in gaza and the tv presenter all ducking for cover as the Israelites were trying to bomb around their house... then they casually mention that they are ontop of a tunnel used to smuggle weapons into gaza to fire at Israel, they have known this for ever, yet still they stay there, is it really Israel falt bombing them or hamas's fault for building the tunnel under peoples houses, or their fault for staying there even after knowning that fact...

This most recent conflict has done nothing to my mind but to fire up more defence of the issues the Israelis face, to me it has been a pr win for them, even thou I still object to their methods and the more radical Zionsits and their methods of expansion into arab lands its nothing compared to this.

If Jordan and Egypt (the Countries that lost the land that became Palestine when they last invaded Israel) just allowed the people living in Palestine to immigrate back into their boarders then most of this wouldn't be a problem.

Then there's the whole

electing a terrorist organisation to run your s***

argument.

"Should Israel be allowed to kill a 1000+ innocent people (1/3 being children) because their government is supposely a terrorist (yet democratic) organisation?

no Israel should not be killing civilians... Israel have this as a policy, that they dont intentionally target civilians

Palistines official stance seems to be hide your milatary/terrorists behind the people who elected you in order to score PR sympathy when those people get blown the f*** up cause they are living with a weapons cache.

If you had a choice.. i need to destroy this house where rockets are stored... if i do it it will mean 2000 less rockets fired into my country and could potentially stop innocent civilians being killed... or I dont destroy it because the house is now being occupied by a family.

to me the family is now the guilty party. everyone has a choice. if you want to be a target for milatary strike.. accept the consequenses

if i had a tonne of cocaine in my house and the police kick in the door.. you think i can get off by swearing that the coke belongs to the bloke down the road and i have nothing to do with it?

"Should Israel be allowed to kill a 1000+ innocent people (1/3 being children) because their government is supposely a terrorist (yet democratic) organisation?

i read today that it was more like 600 militants dead (with ~400 others, 300ish children). now that seems odd to me. why so many dead children.

but heres the thing, the children are being put in the line of fire. and i'm not talking about putting them in buildings that are scheduled (announced by phone calls and leaflet drops!) for a bombing although i don't doubt this has happened before.

the penny drops though when you find out that something like 90% of the palestinians deaths are male. why would child deaths be predominantly male if its indescriminate bombing by the israelis?

imo, whats more likely happening is that hamas recruits minors knowing full well the PR benefits of saying a child was killed. and thats anyone under 18. its definately a tragedy that its happening, but hamas are as much to blame as israel is.

The last scene of "The Kingdom" explains it all. Watch that before you comment any further.

why so many dead children.

More likely due to the fact that the average age in the region is 15...

Hey nF where is that 90% male stat from?

In otherwords matchfixer you couldn't answer it in 1 word.

Did you read my '2 letter' post in reply, followed by the same question you asked except in reference to israel? (which you did not even attempt to answer).

last edited by MatchFixer at 20:36:27 15/Jan/09

Because your question was stupid ?
If it had read "Should a sovereign nation be allowed to protect it's borders from constant rocket attacks from neigbour (who declared it wants to wipe you from the map even if it means killing people not directly involved because the gutless yet elected scum hide in schools and hospitals) ?" I might have answered...

The stuff in brackets isn't even really needed, but since we are playing the pointed question game why not ?


Every arab kid injured in this conflict should be blaming Hamas. You should be blaming Hamas. But you can't see Hamas picked a fight and then fights that fight from schools, under hospitals, on people rooves. Hamas actively hides in and around civilians and kids.


And if you respond with "but Israel x years ago" ... then you are prooving why the whole region is beyond help.

You might have answered Obes, but you missed a hell of a lot of other questions/statements.

Hey nF where is that 90% male stat from?

i found it in a couple of different places, but its hard to find a decent source for it on the net.

seems to be the best one

i realise the source is probably super pro-israel and all (and quite old), but i think the numbers are probably correct.

EDIT: just noticed the very last graph, thats what i was talking about before.

haha booyah you are so full of s***.

Israel re-targetting in-flight rockets to avoid casualties when Hamas operatives scamper off to hide among civilians.

fpot with shallow comments like "Just let Israel nuke them off the planet I reckon" i wouldn't expect a low life security guard/bouncer/glassy to know anything about your own 200 year history let alone something as complicated as the conflict in the middle east.

Shouldn't you be standing outside a night club getting abused and cleaning up s*** and spew?

The only person here full of s*** is you, haha.



last edited by MatchFixer at 00:27:28 16/Jan/09

Nice, you lose the argument so you stoop to personal attacks.

Go Isreal.

I was just trolling because this is a pretty gay thread.

You're right, I don't really know much about the Gaza conflict. Here is what I do know. You have a long dark history of spouting absolute bulls*** on this forum. 100,000 dead US soldiers in Iraq anyone? Yeah they are all buried in mass graves in teh Iraq. You weren't there so you have no basis with which to disagree with me!!! Remember that?

Well it is happening all over again in this thread. I have read people's arguments and read some of the links they have posted and basically it has pretty much refuted everything you have said. The only way you discredit it is by saying that the media is skewing what is really happening, because they are mainly jewish controlled. That is absolute bulls*** and is the same type of moronic bulls*** that 9/11 truthers try to use (but let me guess, you are a 9/11 truther as well?) Basically from my angle it looks as though you have the same sort of frothing at the mouth extremist mentality as the people getting killed in Gaza right now, and the other posters are Israel, calmly owning the f*** out of you with their well directed rockets. Basically you are an idiot and your droning white noise crap makes you a boring idiot as well.

And nice one completely avoiding trog's questions as well. I guess the truth hurts almost as much as rockets these days.

9/11 truther

Wouldn't exactly call them that.