OK another day, another thread.

Anybody else sick of hearing people carrying on about Hall possibly missing the final for striking Matt Mcquire?

If people want to bend the rules to suit their own gameplay well I say they deserve to be reprimanded regardless of whether or not its a final. All the more reason to take more care as a player around end of season. If the captain is too stupid to know any better, then tuff cookies.

Rules are there to keep play safe and fair. I say suck s*** for being a meathead.

discuss.

has harsh as it is
you are right
big baz knows the rules, it sux that hes going to miss the final (probably)
but thats footy

afl needs to change the laws with regard to striking

it was obviously nothing more than a love tap

Yeah, I'm getting a bit tired of it too.

Sydney (both the team and their supporters) need to get over it and themselves.

He made intentional contact off the ball - I reckon that's deserving of a week. Deal with it.

[edit] at half time in Saturday's game the commentators showed prior incidents this year and how much they got, and some pretty soft s*** got a week, maybe two, so why should this be treated any different just cos it affects the Grand Final?


last edited by cerb at 07:50:16 20/Sep/05

Cloke never got off. Rocca never got off. If Hall gets off, wait for Eddie to cry. :)

why should this be treated any different just cos it affects the Grand Final?

emotion clouding judgement

Wtf are you talking about? Who? What?

Wtf are you talking about? Who? What?

The Sydney Swans fullforward player. He's likely to be suspended and miss the AFL grand final.


*** Begin pointless debate between football codes here ***

last edited by Creepy at 10:53:28 20/Sep/05

He'll be out, and the Eagles will win.

he's f***ed I reckon.

I hope he doesnt get out and sydney beat the s*** through WC.

I hope they let him play but only because he's such an awesome player.

Really though, he should eat s*** and die - if you're going to strike another player like that off the ball, you gotta be prepared to cop it sweet, even if that player falls over faster than a soccer player.

Also must mention the Eagles Gaspar will probably cop a week for his elbow-to-the-head against McGregor in their semi versus the crows.

Mind you Gaspar isn't as big a player as Hall, but any loss from your semi-final winning team isn't good.

Also, just to quote afl.com.au

Hall will argue that his clash with Maguire was 'negligent' rather than reckless and 'in play' rather than behind play. A successful challenge on either front will leave him free to play on Saturday.

Personally I think it was probably behind play, although Hall was running for a mark, you can definately see him step back to connect the punch, and it was definately pretty reckless. But who knows.

I reckon it was fairly obvious and he won't get in. Oh well, hopefully Sydney can still do it. WC have been on top for ages so it'd be good to see someone else take out the trophy.

Sydney for the win.

I am very confident he will get one week. There is no way they are going to let him off for that.

Sydney can still do it without Hall anyway if they try. West Coast are good, its going to be a good grand final, hopefully not a blowout.

As I was reading about Big Bad Barry, I found myself wondering about how the tribunal worked. In case anyone else was wondering the same thing, here is a summary.

A player can be reported by the match umpires, heads of AFL umpiring, head (GM) of AFL, head(CEO) of any AFL club or the video review panel.

The report is then passed to the match review panel who assign points to the incident on four seperate scales.

In my own words, the scales are
Conduct (intent)
- Accidental - If a reportable offence occurs as a result of innocent act committed by a player, where it would be unreasonable to expect the player to have foreseen the reportable offence.
- Charge Dropped

- Negligent - If a reportable offence occurs as a result of innocent act committed by a player, where it would be reasonable to expect the player to have foreseen the reportable offence and taken precautions to prevent it.
- 1 point

- Reckless - If a reportable offence occurs as a result of any act committed by a player that was obviously highly likely to cause the reportable offence, and the player either fails to recongnise, or ignores the risk.
- 2 points

- Intentional - If a reportable offence occurs as a DIRECT result of any act committed by a player with the "fixed and settled purpose" of that act leading to the reportable offence that occurs.
- 3 points

Impact
There are no fixed definitions of classifications on this scale. All incidents are assessed in terms of
- force of contact
- reduction of victims ability to participate in match
eg injury, striking testicles etc
- likelihood of serious injury (whether or not it occured)
- any action taken by player to increase/decrease any of the above
eg flexing, turning, positioning of body
by comparison with video of previously classified incidents

The classifications are
- Negligible
- Charge Dropped

- Low
- 1 point

- Medium
- 2 points

- High
- 3 points

- Severe
- 4 points

Location
- In Play - If the reportable offence occurs while the clock is running and in proximity to the ball or in proximity to an area where the immediate next passage of play is likely to occur.
- 1 point

- Behind Play - If the reportable offence occurs while the clock is stopped or in any area that is not covered by definition of in play.
- 2 points

Contact
- Body - If contact is entirely below the shoulders.
- 1 point

- High - If the contact is entirely above the shoulders or both above and below the shoulders.
-2 points

Then the Match review panel converts the points into a level of severity

< 6 points - level 1
6 points - level 2
7 points - level 3
8 points - level 4
9 points - level 5
> 9 points - must be referred to the tribunal for hearing.

The player is then officially charged and summonsed to the tribunal. The player has three options.
- plead guilty without attending the hearing (if level 5 or below) (early guilty plea)
- appear before the tribunal to appeal the severity of the charge (downgrading)
- appear before the tribunal to have the charge heard.

If the player appeals the severity of the charge successfully he has two options
- plead guilty to the new charge without attending a hearing (early guilty plea)
- appear before the tribunal to have the charge heard

If he is unsuccessful in appealing the severity of the charge he must attend the tribunal hearing (with no option of an early guilty plea)

If the player enters an early guilty plea or is found guilty by the tribunal, he is given a certain number of demerit points based on the type and severity of the offence.

For Example
- Level 1 striking - 125 points
- Level 2 striking - 225 points

- Level 1 kicking - 175 points
- Level 2 kicking - 300 points
etc

The demerit points are then adjusted to take account the players record according to the following table.

*****

- Player has not pleaded guilty or been found guilty of any reportable offence (including ones attracting fines not suspension) by the AFL or any affiliated competition (AFLQ, VFL, SANFL etc) in the past 5 years
- demerit points reduced by 25% of original number of points

- Player has not been suspended by the AFL in the past 3 years but has pleaded guilty or been found guilty of a reportable offence by the AFL or any affiliated competition in the past 5 years
- demerit points unchanged

- Player has been suspended by the AFL for a total of 1 week in the past 3 years
- demerit points increased by 10% of original number of points

- Player has been suspended by the AFL for a total of 2 weeks in the past 3 years
- demerit points increased by 20% of original number of points

- Player has been suspended by the AFL for a total of 3 weeks or more in the past 3 years
- demerit points increased by 30% of original number of points

*****

If the player has entered an early guilty plea, the new number of demerit points is reduced by 25% of the new number. This gives the total number of demerit points for this offence.

These points are added to any demerit points the player still has from previous convictions to give his new total number of demerit points.

If the player ever accumulates 100 points or more, he must be immedeatly suspended. For every match he misses, his number of demerit points is reduced by 100 with the oldest points being used first. He must remain suspended until his total number of demerit points is reduced to less than 100. Any points he has left over that don't add up to 100 expire 12 months after they were issued.






All that said, I reckon that Barry Hall's case is borderline. And since the only way he could get off a level 1 charge is with a good record (no suspensions in the last 3 years, no convictions of any sort in the last 12 months at least) AND an early guilty plea, perhaps the factor that pushed it over into level 2 is exactly the fact that, because of his good record, a level 1 wouldn't result in a suspension. Which would upset the people who really matter, Mick, Eddie and the Magpies. It is no secret that the only reason that the tribunal was reformed recently was because Eddie McGuire insisted on it, after his team lost a key player to suspension in each of their two grand final losses.

So i say let Hall off, so that we can see Eddie realise that his new tribunal is just at good at giving him the s***s as the old one was.

I'm a West Coast supporter, so of course I hope he doesn't get to play. But either way, watching the game myself, I'm surprised he was the only one reported.

Haha what hUON said! Asif read it all, executive summary k?

Point taken :)

Executive summary

Contact is rated in terms of intent, how hard it was, was it high or not and was it in play or behind play.

Get score for each criteria, higher score = higher level charge.

Plead guilty or go to Tribunal

If yo pled guilty or found guilty, get demerit points based on level and offence

If ya got a really good record, take away some demerit points
or
If ya got akinda bad record, add some extra demerit points
or
If ya got a pretty bad record, add even more demerit points
or
If ya got Jonathan Brown's record, add lots extra demerit points

If ya didn't go to tribunal (and saved everyones time), take away some demerit points

Add on any demerit points you ain't already traded in for suspension.

If you got 100 points or more, get a week and trade in 100 points, if ya still got more'n 100 points get another week and trade in another 100 points etc.

Any points you got left after suspension, keep for next time.


Executive Summary Summary
Do the shizzle and ya fuxor'd

last edited by hUON at 17:28:46 20/Sep/05

hUON cuz, I respect your long in-depth and informative posts, but executive summary is <25 words mate. Just give us your opinion aye ;)

He has just pleaded guilty.

What the f*** are you talking about nubbin?

Barry Hall is free to play on saturday, the action was deemed "in play" and was downgraded to a level 1 offense. With his good record he won't face any match bans and will play in the Grand Final. The tribunial heard a 66 minute hearing and a 4 minute deliberation.

Just heard it THEN on Ten news Sports update.

Yeah no s*** - he pleaded guilty, and the Tribunal THEN deemed him free to play. A guilty plee doesn't necessitate a ban.

Hmm, they failed to mention that on the news...my bad

OH NOES WHATEVER WILL SPORTS TONIGHT TALK ABOUT TOMMOROW!!!????!!!!

Basically he argued to have it downgraded, the tribunal downgraded it, then he pleaded guilty to the new lesser charge and because he pleaded guilty he got 25% off the points assigned which put him just under a one week ban.

Gaspar got off too :)

It's official: the tribunal is a joke.

Nah...they just have procedures in place to handle these sorts of situations :P And rightly so, IMHO. How well would AFL fair in Sydney if Hall had been suspended and the Swans lost? Would've destroyed all the progress the AFL has made down there. All conjecture and opinions though :P

Swans should be handed the flag to promote afl in sydney. If it looks like their losing the game should be stopped, all but one crow player may remain.

huzzah :P

Come on Eddie, why aren't you crying yet?

Either way, it's going to make the final a lot more interesting now.
IMO, Gasper's hit was not "self-defence" as the judiciary deemed, but if big baz got off, it might have looked bad if Gasper had of got charged.

It's better that there are some well known players in the final.
I hope Sydney belts the crap out of west coast.

I hope Sydney belts the crap out of west coast.

Why? Cause we belt the crap out of Brisbane these days? hehe :)

Who is "we"???

If you are referring to your pansy Eagles, I have no problem in owning up to the fact that the lions got owned this year.

New side, young players, had to happen. nuff said.