according to 7/9 and 10 news

I have no idea who to vote for, can anyone give me info/links of howards/lathams policies?

what was their source?

I saw it, it was just writing on the bottom of the screen. John Howard leave government house, election 9th

although it is channel 7....f***in man children

that is f***ing awesome im not 18 till october 10th, no voting for me :)

thats f***ed, that means i have to go out and vote, so much effort

It isnt much of a big deal. what are you people on about?

The only thing i hate is those f***ers who chase you to give you a "how to vote for this d*******" card, which they know is going to end up on the ground anyway

thats f***ed, that means i have to go out and vote, so much effort

aren't you still in school?

although it is channel 7

Actually i saw it on channel 9 as well

thats f***ed, that means i have to go out and vote, so much effort

It's not certain yet, it's just mainly speculation at the moment, but they seemed pretty confident it was either october 9th or 2nd

The only thing i hate is those f***ers who chase you to give you a "how to vote for this d*******" card, which they know is going to end up on the ground anyway

Just say, "no thanks".

It's not certain yet, it's just mainly speculation at the moment, but they seemed pretty confident it was either october 9th or 2nd

phew

Just say, "no thanks".

never thought of that :P

Just annopunced, we going to the polls.

Yep, just confirmed on channel 10. Called it for the 9th of October

ah f***. anyone know where you goto vote in carina heights? moved here recently got nfi where it is.

confirmed live on Sky News for all you povo f***s.

You should get a letter shortly telling you where you're enrolled and the places in your area which you can vote from.

im going to vote for the guy with the moustache and the cool uniform

Im very much looking forward to voting on the 9th. Honestly you people should be ashamed of yourselves.

Anyone else voting a blank ?

voting sucs balls

need more choice

Anyone else voting a blank ?

At least give bart simpson a go, blanks lack in creativity

Im very much looking forward to voting on the 9th. Honestly you people should be ashamed of yourselves.

Anyone else voting a blank ?

as if vote blank, you go there stand in line wait your turn and then not give an opinon by leaving it blank....

well than imo if you vote blank you dont have the rite to bich about the goverenment cause when the chance came up you dont take it.

last edited by Irhabi at 13:27:15 29/Aug/04

Actually one time i put down "vote 1 vote binladen". Somehow i dont think he won.

I'm voting for kodos.

Bah cause you start with a b im voting for you.

Go Son !

looks like i'd better register to vote.

ah f***. anyone know where you goto vote in carina heights? moved here recently got nfi where it is.

Not sure where the one in carina heights is, but i've voted at the school just across from KFC and Subway on Old Cleveland Rd (heading from Carina south).

people who dont vote are lamer than merlin

http://www.littlejody.live.com.au/merlintool.jpg

looks like i'd better register to vote.

same, any idea where?

last edited by lite at 14:43:47 29/Aug/04

elections suck

vote 1 trog for president

I think you can get the form from the post office....dont quote me on that

f***it.. me too.. i filled the form in before i was 18 but i lost it :(

Im considering enroling..I have the forms here somewhere but im not too worried, didnt vote in the other two this year, but i guess federal politics is more important so perhaps i should.

thats f***ed, that means i have to go out and vote, so much effort

lol, i have to walk out my backyard to the Kindy, buy some lammingtons, vote, and pat the cat on the way back in, waaaay too much effort.

Thats the day im holding my 21st.

Liberal convention at my place that day. Drinks and how to vote cards provided.

Elections suck.
Vote blank Booyah, its your choice. He's got the right to vote blank and whinge if he likes Irhabi because you can't accuse him of being a dum dum for standing in line when I think its pretty obvious he doesnt want to be there, let alone vote for some f***stick local member he knows nothing about.
Least hes being honest.

last edited by rolo_tomasi at 16:54:41 29/Aug/04

yay.. and old Johnny has already found a loophole in the new anti-spam laws to allow his party to pay his son to spam the s*** out of us all with Liberal propaganda

nice work there Johnny


odd - that link works well just the once. :/

working fine in IE though.. how unusual






last edited by koopz at 17:59:59 29/Aug/04

last edited by koopz at 18:01:44 29/Aug/04

What, just like the SMH site we now have to sign up to view?

I'll tell ya what I want, Johnny vs. Latham in those American style debates and shows

I think your wish will be granted eK cos Howard just said he will participate in 'a' televised debate with 'the google kid' before we hit the booths.

Source: Today Show

Question is who is going to sell of Tel$tra? If Tel$tra gets privatised, fully, it's only going to get worse.

Also some ppl reckon if Bush loses the election b4 the Australian Fedral Election, little Johnny could be f***ed.

I'd like to vote for Latham but he's such a short-tempered thug I can't bring myself to do it.

Mite have to vote for the Left Greenie Lesbien Black Marijuana Party... AGAIN!

It gunna suck doing absent vote at Bathurst, be even funnier if they open a booth on top of the mountain, say in the pig pen... :0

i'm not too bothered about voting. The only thing is, I do find it hard to choose between them, because you can't really make an educated decision as to exactly what their party stands for, when all you get from the media is always crappy propoganda.

I usually take a stab in the dark and vote against the person that I've seen make the most stupid arguments out of something that doesn't need to be argued.

I say everyone votes 1 for 'dongs' this year.

wow 30 day bans suck... anywho,

I’ll be voting for the Liberal Party because she seams to be doing a decent job, not to mention the Labour member eats wang.

I really have no idea why the Labour Party made Latham their leader.. IMO the s***test idea ever. Maybe if they have a half decent candidate I would swing the other way but at the moment there is just no competition.

howard lies. :(

How can you tell if a politian is lying?


Their lips are moving...

I finally got the AEC to register me in the my own district. I mean after all I only lived there for like 7 years and have to absent vote. The last time I voted for the BBC election I got the letter sent back saying my vote didn't count because I wasn't registered in that district or some such s***. I hope it's all allright now.

Before people start shouting about lies and deceit and so on, does anyone really believe the Labor party would be more honest if they got into power? Really?

I'm voting for Liberal, becuase while I might not approve of some of the shenanigans we've seen with the people overboard and such, they are doing their main job (that is, running the country) very well.

It's a measure of just how well that the only things people can pick to compain about are allegations of "arse licking" with America (I mean seriously, that's just highschool-ish, Latham) and the possibility, even if it is a significant one, of the Government lying about the actions of unarguably illegal immigrants.

They didn't turn out to be refugees, bleeding heart Greens types. You lose.

I believe that a Labor government under Latham would be a bunch of populist, spineless crowd-pleasers, who would act in such a manner as to secure a re-election rather than make un-popular decisions that would benefit the country in the long run.

last edited by StopShootingMe at 12:08:26 30/Aug/04

For the people who need to register here is that web address

http://www.aec.gov.au/

Wow, SSM, that was quite possibly the biggest load of s*** I have ever read. Wd.

I have no idea who to vote for, can anyone give me info/links of howards/lathams policies?

it depends what you want:

labor usually means higher taxes and more public services and looking after the dole bludgers of society. They usually run in budgets of deficit, and increase foreign debt to pay for their services.

Liberal usually means lower taxes, still providing services for society. usually run in budgets of surplus and this leads to decreasing foreign debt.


imo, i think latham is a shifty person etc etc hence i'm not voting for him.

Howard i think is trying to do whats best for the country.

however, you don't vote to keep the best person in, because in politics there is no "best" person, you vote to keep the worst person out. ;)


/flame away peoples

StopShootingMe, totally agree

The whole children overboard saga has gone on too long. I don't give a s*** if a few kids got in the water and got wet.

That is all.

Costello wins so far for the funniest campaign comment.

Radio Announcer: "Mark Latham is putting alot of weight behind the fact that a vote for John Howard is a vote for you, do you rule out a leadership challenge?"

Costello: "You know what the really scary thing is? A vote for Mark Latham is a vote for Mark Latham"

GOLD ;)

Wow, SSM, that was quite possibly the biggest load of s*** I have ever read. Wd.

You do of course realise that by saying that without elaborating on why you feel it was a load of s***, or laying out your beliefs in turn, you wind up looking stupid?

Aslo Spidz, Costello is always funny. The Treasurer going on radio and doing a sing along to "Money, That's All I Want" is gold.

last edited by StopShootingMe at 13:33:35 30/Aug/04

yes costello is rather comedic.

I'm looking forward to his live debate with Crean about economic policy it will be like watching a blind kid discussing impressionism with monet :P

I dont really want to vote for Liberal, cos while I dont mind little Johnny Howard, I hate that shifty Costello f***er.

But on the other hand, I want to vote for Labor even less, so I'll probably just stick with Liberal.

The whole children overboard saga has gone on too long. I don't give a s*** if a few kids got in the water and got wet.

That is all.

yeh, for instance people forget that they were illegal immigrants, although i'm not condoning the children overboard, but seriously if people base the election on this one instance then they are stupid morons and shouldn't be able to vote anyway. Also what Howard did with not letting them into the country was grand.

also with people saying its an election about lies, and that howard lied.... GET OVER IT, all politicians lie sooner or later it comes with the job.

and with costello's jokes/comedy, i think maybe he might be doing this just for publicity and showing the public that he isn't the uptight person people may think he is.

although i'd rather Costello than Latham any day.

whats so shifty about Pistol Pete?

all this talk about leadership challenges is ass, the Coalition have been stable for 10 years, its the labor party who have leadership issues with 3 leaders in 3 years ffs!

who would you rather have challenging the PM, Crean of Pete!

and with costello's jokes/comedy, i think maybe he might be doing this just for publicity and showing the public that he isn't the uptight person people may think he is.

what?? he has been funny for years, just watch question time, hell when Pete goes on the attack at Crean/Beazley/Latham's expense its comedy gold.

Abbot is the one that is trying to be funny, but Pistol Pete has the wood on him easy.

imo, i think latham is a shifty person etc etc hence i'm not voting for him.

N00b at voting?

While I hate it when people try to influence they way others vote I'd just like to say to those that are thinking of doing a donkey/blank vote, consider voting for a minor party or independent. That way your vote is actually counted instead of discarded and it will be far more effective of getting a message to the major parties that you aren't happy with their policies. Ofcourse vote for which ever party/candidate best represents your views but if you want to make a stand by doing a blank vote you will be hugely wasting your time.

Agreed, watching Costello retort is what made question time bareable. He dished out some tasty insults :)

Before people start shouting about lies and deceit and so on, does anyone really believe the Labor party would be more honest if they got into power? Really?

I don't think that they would be more honest ... I just wish they could keep their lies in place so it wasn't so apparent they where lying to us.

As to who to pick …

Historically we need the two forms of government, the Labour government comes in and builds up a social republic, and the Liberal Government comes and rips it all down. This symmetry helps keeps things in some sort of status quo.

Liberal has pretty much f***ed away public health care and public education in this country, especially tertiary public education. Having a public education system that insures that the vast majority of people are well educated is a key point to keeping poverty at bay.

However, with the raising prices of oil, that means raising inflation. The first of the baby boomers is going to start retiring in the next few years … that means that more people are going to go on social welfare and there are going to be less people to help fund them, which will also increase inflation.

I don’t know if I can trust Labour to limit the rate of inflation to something manageable … :(

Liberal has pretty much f***ed away public health care and public education in this country, especially tertiary public education

thats a big call considering it was labour that made the first moves to privatise tertiary education.

I was going to call you an idiot but you redeemed yourself with this staement ;)

I don’t know if I can trust Labour to limit the rate of inflation to something manageable … :(

That way your vote is actually counted instead of discarded and it will be far more effective of getting a message to the major parties that you aren't happy with their policies.

Although just remember if the person you give you vote too doesn't get office, he can give you votes to someone else who could.

Liberal has pretty much f***ed away public health care and public education in this country, especially tertiary public education.

bs. examples please

"It's time for a change", bring back Gough.

typo's on the right track, with the idea that both parties are required to balance the books and social issues facing Australia. However Labour has become more Liberal in fisical policy over the last 2 decades, perhaps the best Liberal PM we ever had was Paul Keating... :)

If inflation is a result of baby boomers retiring then it's the fault of past governments for formulating policy that discouraged workers from setting aside capital to fund their retirement.

I was thinking of selling my vote on ebay, except I was trying to think of a way I could prove who I voted for....

Be pretty easy to sneak a camera in there and take a picture of my completed card I guess.

That is what ebay needs, more people "trying" to be funny...

Seems more like an easy 10 bucks to me.

Liberal has pretty much f***ed away public health care and public education in this country

more spending on both health and education as % of GDP than any previous government = wrong

Edit: I will declare my interest however, I am a member of the Liberal party.

last edited by infiNex at 16:58:11 30/Aug/04

infiNex you can tell your card carrying counterparts that they lost my vote for 3 reasons.

1. FTA, Howard stated that there would be no FTA without sugar or wheat. I feel strongly about other issues to do with the FTA, but this one point is a kick in the balls to the famers who where promised out right that no FTA would be agreed apon which didn't include their industries.

2. Still waiting for the WMD to be found, after all that is the reason we went there, or where we lied to. Forget all the other bulls*** that goes with this topic, the principle reason for Australian troops going to the gulf was the threat of WMD, for which there was evidence so compelling it would be a crime not to go.

3. Compulsory Super, we where promised no direct or indirect taxing of contributions (compulsory contributions), this in fact another lie.

3 strikes your out.

Paul Keating was the best leader this country has ever had. If I could vote for him as world dictator ... I would.

:)

Gawd, if I must.

Before people start shouting about lies and deceit and so on, does anyone really believe the Labor party would be more honest if they got into power? Really?

Right, so what you are saying is that you accept that the current government lies, and that's ok, but, Labour will lie more, so that's not ok? Man, that ain't even LOGICAL thinking. Remember the "I will never introduce GST line?". So blatent, yet so blatently forgotten? Fair enough, times change etc, but hey, what a git for making the call in the first place - motive - CROWD PLEASING AT THE TIME. Re: your comments lower.

I'm voting for Liberal, becuase while I might not approve of some of the shenanigans we've seen with the people overboard and such, they are doing their main job (that is, running the country) very well.

That is a moot point. You're hinting that your opinion is factual for starters - which it isn't. I can tell you 100 ways they aren't running the country well. One instance, is having to pay $23 to see a doctor for lung problems resulting from cities that have close to zero pollution control is insane, to say the least.

It's a measure of just how well that the only things people can pick to compain about are allegations of "arse licking" with America (I mean seriously, that's just highschool-ish, Latham) and the possibility, even if it is a significant one, of the Government lying about the actions of unarguably illegal immigrants.

The fact that you think peoples only gripe are those trivial things is a direct indicator of your over all intelligence. How shallow of you to contrive that people are so simple minded that they have no solid foundation on which their opinions are built, apart from the ones you ASUMED so.

They didn't turn out to be refugees, bleeding heart Greens types. You lose.

I believe that a Labor government under Latham would be a bunch of populist, spineless crowd-pleasers, who would act in such a manner as to secure a re-election rather than make un-popular decisions that would benefit the country in the long run.

"

Right, so all the pollies in the Labour camp are ther sheerly for show. They could have joined a circus to impress people, but they didn't? You are doing to Labour exactly what you said you dislike other people doing to Liberal - slandering.

Another thing, to say Latham is spineless is like saying the sky is red. I think it's pretty obvious he has massive balls. Do you think hypothetically that the Labour government would last long in power if they made "un-popular" decisions?


I learned how to quote mwah, I must be a labour voter.

last edited by slap69 at 17:23:24 30/Aug/04

I am voteing labour, for various resons. as gumby stated about the WMD's, the FTA i care about greatly as well. how ever the one that gets me is medicare, don't tell me liberals are helping it becuase they bloody are not, they destroyed medicare and bulk billing and this little strenghting medicare ploy is not enough to win my vote, die in hell howard and your butt kissing cronies.

haha gumby they are the most trivial reasons i have ever heard for a change in vote.

1. the sugar and what component of the FTA is negligible compared to the potential markets which have been opened up to Australian exporters. Every share invester knows, future share price is not govered by today's profit but by what profit you expect to make NEXT year. Follow the growth, farmers are going to have to shift to other high tech industries over time so this will have limited impact. Also the Government has provided financial support to sugar farmers to compensate for their ommission from the deal.

2. WMD - or not, Saddam was Evil and the world is a better place for having gotten rid of him. I personnly believe that it is unfortunate the intel was wrong but we have brought Iraq into the democractic world and that is a good thing.

3. Don't get me started on tax. Labor is a basket case when it comes to this and tax cuts for both the rich and the poor during this government - not hikes. 2000 for the lower paid. 2004 for the higher paid. I hate paying tax, don't you?

Trapper, imagnine a world where you never have to go to a Medicare office again because it is all done at your GP's counter and deposited straight into your bank account. Welcome to 2004. The Government's HealthConnect initiative means you don't have to stand in queues ever again.


last edited by infiNex at 17:28:53 30/Aug/04

more spending on both health and education as % of GDP than any previous government = wrong

Public health and public education?

The whole children overboard saga has gone on too long. I don't give a s*** if a few kids got in the water and got wet.

That is all.

I aggree, it HAS gone on for too long.

I read a recent book, and it basically said that the children overboard thing was a blown outta porportion. In the end they were threatening to.....and then didnt, so no children ended up in the water. Of course there was the issue of...Costello?..he said he had evidence which took a few days (long enough to win the Coalition the election) for the evidence to be disproved.

1. the sugar and what component of the FTA is negligible compared to the potential markets which have been opened up to Australian exporters. Every share invester knows, future share price is not govered by today's profit but by what profit you expect to make NEXT year. Follow the growth, farmers are going to have to shift to other high tech industries over time so this will have limited impact. Also the Government has provided financial support to sugar farmers to compensate for their ommission from the deal.

As we all know these votes are crucial fro the Nationals in QLD, nice of the Libs to break a promise made to the Sugar Cane Growers association.

As anybody who trades futures would know the FTA is all about manufactured goods and will have little to no bearing on futures trading.

2. WMD - or not, Saddam was Evil and the world is a better place for having gotten rid of him. I personnly believe that it is unfortunate the intel was wrong but we have brought Iraq into the democractic world and that is a good thing.

The PM makes his decisions based apon the recommendations of his staff, these are the offices we vote in, if they have bad intelligence then they make bad decisions. As a result the Howard/Liberal government attacked another country outside of international law based apon this missinformation, and in my opinion represented ME poorly.

3. Don't get me started on tax. Labor is a basket case when it comes to this and tax cuts for both the rich and the poor during this government - not hikes. 2000 for the lower paid. 2004 for the higher paid. I hate paying tax, don't you?

Why do you mention income tax, I never mentioned it, it has no bearing on the discussion of indirect taxing of Super, a promise made during the last election campaign, another promise broken that will have grave concequences to the long term future of this country.

These are my opinions, I really don't care what you think is trivial and what is important, the fact I find these 3 points enough is all that matters to me.

1. What's economically beneficial and whats socially beneficial are 2 different things. While the FTA is economically beneficial it still remains to be seen whether it is socially beneficial. Liberals tend to forget this. But I'll give this +1 to liberal.

2. While saddam may have been evil who's to say his replacement will be any better. All attacking iraq has managed to do is piss off even more muslims(Even the iraqi soccer team hates americans). To me attacking iraq was no better than germany attacking poland. You should never attack another country that isn't doing anything to any other country and try to justify it as a good thing. The liberals persistance, lies and pushing this to the end is bad. -5 to the liberals as it was such a terrible mistake

3. Tax cuts were fairly pointless as they just brought it slightly back closer to inflation. Neither party is willing to bring in indexation so they both suck with taxes. But the liberals could have done much more thoughtful and progressive things with an extra 2 billion dollars than give 1000 dollars to population who were bound to spend it on "nice to haves". Subsidising childrens sport or health food in tuckshops or something that would benefit children directly would have been far more appropriate. To me it was basically a bribe. -1 liberals

While labour is untested, apart from costello their frontbench looks alot more cluey than the liberals. The liberals have done a great job (+2) at reducing debt but they have no idea what to do wtih the money now they have no debt.

I'll be voting labour because I haven't liked the liberals foreign policy over the last couple of years and their usefulness as tight fiscal operators seems to have come to and end. So my voting tally so far with 3 elections will go from liberal 2 labour 0 to liberal 2 labour 1 :P
But if labours policies turn out to be even worse (unlikely) vote liberal again.

thats one of the best thought out and written things i have seen so far sam, nice calm and collected.

Forget all the other bulls*** that goes with this topic, the principle reason for Australian troops going to the gulf was the threat of WMD, for which there was evidence so compelling it would be a crime not to go.

no, that wasn't the principal reason at all - but just like every other mike moore fan and propoganda spinner keep spouting that bulls*** if you like.

To me attacking iraq was no better than germany attacking poland. You should never attack another country that isn't doing anything to any other country and try to justify it as a good thing.

so if we went back 60 years and had our time again knowing what we know now, would you be against a first strike policy against Nazi Germany? The same principal applies here, Saddham was dangerous - he has invaded a foreign country in the past (much like ze germans) and needed to be removed from power. And while no definate links to AL Quaeda have been found I'm still not convinced this was a first strike as Saddham while not directly linked to Bali or 911 is definately a major part of that 'evil network'

Right, so what you are saying is that you accept that the current government lies, and that's ok, but, Labour will lie more, so that's not ok? Man, that ain't even LOGICAL thinking. Remember the "I will never introduce GST line?". So blatent, yet so blatently forgotten? Fair enough, times change etc, but hey, what a git for making the call in the first place - motive - CROWD PLEASING AT THE TIME. Re: your comments lower.

I accept that either party will lie when they see it as expediant. And from what I inferred from your retort, so do you. So I fail to see how you think this is a score for the Labor party. As for your next remark, ROFL, you're trying to use the GST as ammumnition against the Liberals?! Firstly, it was part of the Liberal's stated agenda before the election that gave them a second term that they would introduce a GST - and they got in. That's all there is to it. If people hadn't wanted a GST that much, then the Liberals would not have been re-elected. How can you assume that they were "lying" when they said that they would never introduce a GST? That implies that they knew they eventually would bring one in. It seems to me that they re-evaluated the merits of a GST during their first term, and decided to field it to the public. And it's worth noting that, contrary to what Labor (and others) suggested at the time, the sky did not in fact fall down as a result of its introduction.

That is a moot point. You're hinting that your opinion is factual for starters - which it isn't. I can tell you 100 ways they aren't running the country well. One instance, is having to pay $23 to see a doctor for lung problems resulting from cities that have close to zero pollution control is insane, to say the least.

You're responding to my statement of personal opinion and intent by suggesting it is not rooted in fact? Of course it isn't. And as for your whiney little anecdote about shelling out a WHOPPING $23 for a lung examination (I can almost assure you that at that price it's probably still government subsidised), how is that a good example of the government "not running the country well"? Is that really at the top of your mental list of 100 examples? If so I'd say that reflected well on the Liberals.

The fact that you think peoples only gripe are those trivial things is a direct indicator of your over all intelligence. How shallow of you to contrive that people are so simple minded that they have no solid foundation on which their opinions are built, apart from the ones you ASUMED so.

You are offended (in a sort of girly fashion, I have to say) by what you see as my low opinion of the intelligence and education of the average voter, so you react by calling me un-intelligent and shallow? Did you intend for that to be ironic?

Another thing, to say Latham is spineless is like saying the sky is red. I think it's pretty obvious he has massive balls. Do you think hypothetically that the Labour government would last long in power if they made "un-popular" decisions?

No, I just don't believe they will make those decisions in the first place. The Liberal party have shown themselves on a number of occasions to be willing to dis-regard public opinion when it's in the interests of the country. And the public usually realises later on that the government was right and shuts up. I don't believe Labor would have the guts for that. Look at your vaunted Medicare system. It was nice, sure. Also un-sustainable as it was. A pity, really, but also a neat demonstration of the dangers of populist government.

Four words for you:

Seventy Billion Dollar Debt.

That's what we got from the last period of Labor governance. For those of you who think that while the Liberals have done a good job getting rid of the debt, it's time that we should bring in a new Labor government in to ramp up spending on welfare and health again, I have to ask you - are you nuts?

That's like saying, "Phew, finally, after 9 years, I've paid of all those credit card debts and bank loans. Let's go buy fur coats!"

That is a moot point. You're hinting that your opinion is factual for starters - which it isn't. I can tell you 100 ways they aren't running the country well. One instance, is having to pay $23 to see a doctor for lung problems resulting from cities that have close to zero pollution control is insane, to say the least.

I'm not really going to participate in this thread besides this post but I'd just like to point out that I strongly disagree with your complaint about seeing a doctor for $23. $23 is a pultry sum of money to see a doctor when you compare it to just about any other service, plus the government rebate is currently set at $24, they are already paying more than you are.

I won't even go into your explantion of your lung problems which barely touch base with reality.

it was a know fact saddamn hated fundamentalist muslims like bin laden for the pure fact that they wanted to attack big countries like america. Saddamn just wanted to rule over his own people, have money and bitches. I dont think he gave a crap about the rest of the world.

I think the bush government is akin to nazi germany. For fundemental christians are as bad as fundemental muslims except they are in power in the US.

it was a know fact saddamn hated fundamentalist muslims like bin laden for the pure fact that they wanted to attack big countries like america. Saddamn just wanted to rule over his own people, have money and bitches. I dont think he gave a crap about the rest of the world.

Ugh I'm going to have to post again. You're wrong about Suddam by the way, he gave money to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers. As for not concerned about the rest of the world, um I don't know how old you are if you remember THE FIRST GULF WAR, Or the fact that Suddam also launched missles at Israel or his plans to assassinate George Bush Senior.

I have plans to asassainate gearge bush jnr, doesnt everyone?

I know I do :)

As for Saddam Hussein and funding the families of Pelestinian suicide bombers, it's hard to say whether that's a manifestation of some symapthy for Islamic fundamentalism.

Palestine supported Iraq (politically) during the First Gulf War, because the leadership at the time felt it would benefit their plans for independence from Israel. Previously they had gotten a lot of funding from countries like Kuwait. They probably also liked the cut of Saddam's jib in that he did admittedly have a penchant for firing ballistic missiles at Israel :)

Anyway, nobody really expected the US to react as they did (Iraq has always maintained that they thought they had America's approval), so when Iraq went down hard, Palestine's former funding from foreign powers, like say Kuwait, dried right up, and they have since resorted to more extreme, and likely cheaper, measures to make their resentment towards Israel felt.

So - in conclusion, there are more than just that one possible motivation for Saddam's payments to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers. Though the US really do like the terrorist link one. I think that there's a little too much bias for me to take them seriously :) They see terrorists under the bed. They must really miss having the Reds as enemies...

Forget all the other bulls*** that goes with this topic, the principle reason for Australian troops going to the gulf was the threat of WMD, for which there was evidence so compelling it would be a crime not to go.

no, that wasn't the principal reason at all - but just like every other mike moore fan and propoganda spinner keep spouting that bulls*** if you like.

I f***en detest Mike Moore, if WMD wasn't the principle reason then what was, and no I don't mean one of those wishy washy coverup press releases prior to the attack. John Howard (the only person we have been debating in this tread) said that it would be wrong of Australia not to go, because the evidence shown to him did indicate the Iraq had WMD. Maybe now that they found none, they need to make up a new story, but at the time of the attack it was all about WMD.

costa you have been smoking too much cock crack.

how are they fundamental christians? for reacting to a callous attack purely designed for the purpose of killing civilians?

I f***en detest Mike Moore, if WMD wasn't the principle reason then what was, and no I don't mean one of those wishy washy coverup press releases prior to the attack. John Howard (the only person we have been debating in this tread) said that it would be wrong of Australia not to go, because the evidence shown to him did indicate the Iraq had WMD. Maybe now that they found none, they need to make up a new story, but at the time of the attack it was all about WMD.

no, there was a wealth of reasons on the table before and after the attack. WMD was just bandied around by the press or protesters because as you say there was no hard evidence of them. People may have accepted that as the reason and agreed with it pending discovery of alleged WMD's, but it was NOT the principal reason, its just the only reason out of hundreds that actually hasn't been vindicated as yet.

how are they fundamental christians?

Aside from their rabid "OMG GAYS MARRY ONOS! AND ABORTIONS MAKE BABY JESUS CRY!" stance? :)

But seriously, the Americans are regarded by many authorites (or at least surveys taken by those authorities) to be one of the more fundamentalist countries in the world. Sure, we're not talking Taliban levels here, but Americans seem to genuinely believe that Christians are better people than non-Christians. Have you EVER seen a federal election here raise questions as to the religious beliefs of a candidate? I can't recall any such incident. I mean, George Bush gives funds to pro-abstinence groups, invokes God as moral authority in anti-abortion debates, and has recently been busted asking (well, his campaign organisers were busted for this) churches to suggest to their congregations that they vote for him.

Who the f*** (in the Western World) uses their religion to get elected?

last edited by StopShootingMe at 19:28:40 30/Aug/04

seriously spidz vsft your claiming ppl are in love with moore and his bs just becuase they are pointing out that at some level someone lied about wmd's, your claiming that they are taken in by propaganda but are you any better? think about that for a second.

Event: ABC - 7:30 Report
Subject: John Howard
Result: OWNED!

I didnt say anything about moore mongo.

i dunno who to vote for. someone give me a list of the f***ers policies.

Lets hope he gives it to Latham as well, just to keep it objective.
Excellent interview, Howard handled himself remarkably well, even after Kerry handed him his arse.

i meant to relate your comments more to the propaganda statement alone vsft, i apologize and hope you can just read it as me saying you got taken in by propaganda too.

Yeah man i despise america.. oh no that makes me a moore fan and a propaganda spouter !! This "propaganda" of moore is nothing new, except now someone has decided to go public about it.

no, there was a wealth of reasons on the table before and after the attack. WMD was just bandied around by the press or protesters because as you say there was no hard evidence of them. People may have accepted that as the reason and agreed with it pending discovery of alleged WMD's, but it was NOT the principal reason, its just the only reason out of hundreds that actually hasn't been vindicated as yet.

wtf spidz??? dont you think the whole point of not vindicating or justifying those reasons is because they could not be justified? read: utter bulls*** and lame excuses? then wtf is the point of you pointing out there's 100 other reasons for america going into iraq if they are not realistic ? I am missing something here ?

America could have gotten rid of saddam a long time ago if they really wanted. 9/11 was the perfect time and excuse to get in iraq and take control of its major oil supplies and establish a base in iraq in order to give Syria/iran a turn in the game of terror. That's it. There's nothing else to it.

i meant to relate your comments more to the propaganda statement alone vsft, i apologize and hope you can just read it as me saying you got taken in by propaganda too.

I've made two posts in this thread, one commenting that $23 isn't much to pay for seeing a doctor, and secondly that Suddams policy was anything but Isolationist. How can those point be consider propganda in any way, shape or form? My opinion sure but certainly not propaganda.

Also to add something worthwhile, here is a short article on how the election works in Aus: Link

last edited by verticalseafoodtaco at 21:08:53 30/Aug/04

the isolationist comment, nobody can say what he was thinking?

Invading a country is the opposite of an isolationist policy ok!?!

$23 isn't much to pay for seeing a doctor

Hmmm,
Can't you use a medical certificate to get out of being fined for not voting?

heh, if so, here's an idea! Don't vote, get a medical certificate from a doctor who bulk bills an voila ! Don't even cost you anything

cept time, cause I'm thinking its a safe bet that you'd spend more time doing that than you would if you just went down an null voted. Of course, this EDIT: was way, the government has to pay for you to not vote so it's kinda worth it.

last edited by HERMITech at 22:34:50 30/Aug/04

Liberal has pretty much f***ed away public health care and public education in this country, especially tertiary public education.

bs. examples please

ok
ok
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2. WMD - or not, Saddam was Evil and the world is a better place for having gotten rid of him. I personnly believe that it is unfortunate the intel was wrong but we have brought Iraq into the democractic world and that is a good thing.

So you think we should invade sovereign counties at will because they have a leader who is ‘evil’? Hmm …


last edited by typo at 00:50:36 31/Aug/04

wtf spidz??? dont you think the whole point of not vindicating or justifying those reasons is because they could not be justified? read: utter bulls*** and lame excuses? then wtf is the point of you pointing out there's 100 other reasons for america going into iraq if they are not realistic ? I am missing something here ?

you are missing alot of things, yes - intelligence being one of them.

I said there were 100 other reasons to invade Iraq besides the alleged possibility of WMD. Now in the interests of keeping it simple for you to understand, the WMD issue makes it 101 reasons. So it being the only one not vindicated, means that out of 101 reasons, 1 has proven (for the sake of this explanation I'll conditionally concede that there were no WMD) to be incorrect. That still leaves 100 perfectly good and justifiable reasons to invade.

suhaib put a leash on your resident moron please.

said there were 100 other reasons to invade Iraq besides the alleged possibility of WMD. Now in the interests of keeping it simple for you to understand, the WMD issue makes it 101 reasons. So it being the only one not vindicated, means that out of 101 reasons, 1 has proven (for the sake of this explanation I'll conditionally concede that there were no WMD) to be incorrect. That still leaves 100 perfectly good and justifiable reasons to invade.

So you believe we should jump into every body else’s potiential civil wars and protect them from themselves?

Should we go attack half of Africa? How about Nth. Korea? Most of the Middle East?

When did we get the right to act as the worlds Police force and make every body live by our standards of living?

So you think we should invade sovereign counties at will because they have a leader who is ‘evil’? Hmm …

no just the ones with a voilent history of invasion of neighbouring lands, with a leader who terrorizes his own people, ties to terrorist groups, a deep hatred of freedom and democracy and unlimited wealth to terrorise the freedom of both western and eastern culture.


oh and your examples are s***house, like I said earlier, the first steps towards privatisation of tertiry education were under a labor govt. Any child can still get a good education in a public school, and medicare was never workable.

Sure it worked under labor when they racked up $70 billion in debt, I could also drive a porsche and call myself successful, but I'd be in $100k debt with no coalition to fix it for me!

It's the tinkerbell effect liberal voters have, if we all believe john howard did a good job and hasn't lied, then he hasn't. Every time someone says 'I do not believe in those lies you told us to go to war with Iraq', somewhere there's a fairy that falls down dead.

I believe in you, Peter Pan.

That's right, Peter. Second star to the right and straight on till morning.

Oh I do miss this forum and these threads.

we didn't invade Iraq, we liberated them ;)

and yes, I think places like Zimbabwe and Niger need external help for sure.

Korea is a different kettle of fish, its an elected govt and while it is developing WMD's, while we have WMD's we can't say they can't. This isn't relevant to Iraq for obvious reasons.

I"m not a liberal voter imitation.

I vote on policy, which at this stage definately makes me vote liberal, but I would change if the policy was there.

no just the ones with a voilent history of invasion of neighbouring lands, with a leader who terrorizes his own people, ties to terrorist groups, a deep hatred of freedom and democracy and unlimited wealth to terrorise the freedom of both western and eastern culture.

So just half of Africa, South America, the Middle East and Some of Asia … sounds like a plan.

oh and your examples are s***house, like I said earlier, the first steps towards privatisation of tertiry education were under a labor govt.

I won’t argue that Labour bought in HECS, but I don’t think you looked at the vast majority (if any) of the examples I used. Some of them show the billions of dollars lost from the 35 major Universities.

It you go look at one of the last ones you can see how Labour increase the level of funding in tertiary education for each and every year it was in power, while Liberal slashed billions from the funding and then never really added anything to the table for years.

The recent extra funding resulting from the Nelson Review brings Universities back to the level of funding they had 8 years ago. That is not taking into account that Universities now have way more students than they have ever had in the past.

Any child can still get a good education in a public school, and medicare was never workable.

Primary and Secondary Public education is in tatters … although I will admit that it is as much the fault of Labour State governments as Federal governments. However with that whole sub section of my sentence devoted to “especially tertiary education” you might have guessed that I was talking about higher education in particular.

Higher Educations funding mostly comes from Federal government, unlike State Primary and Secondary education.

It doesn’t take much of a look inside Universities to see that they are hurting real bad …

Sure it worked under labor when they racked up $70 billion in debt, I could also drive a porsche and call myself successful, but I'd be in $100k debt with no coalition to fix it for me!

Notice how I wasn’t a real big proponent of Labour earlier in this thread? At least at the moment?

No, of course not … you just jumped in with both feet in your mouth making assumptions about what I meant.

and yes, I think places like Zimbabwe and Niger need external help for sure.

Civil wars are brutal and bloody. Rarely (if ever) a clear victor comes out of it. The one thing for sure, if a third party steps into it ... they loose.

I think they do need external help … but systematically invading other counties and making them follow our way of life only makes us Imperialistic and doesn’t really do anything to solve the problems.

Of course there was a time when we could have taken Iraq, and that was in the first Gulf War. We didn’t have to break any international laws to do it either

no just the ones with a voilent history of invasion of neighbouring lands, with a leader who terrorizes his own people, ties to terrorist groups, a deep hatred of freedom and democracy and unlimited wealth to terrorise the freedom of both western and eastern culture.

Well based on all of these we best invade America, because they have done all that.

For those who like the occasional drug to... whatever, Bob Brown says the Greens are considering legalising small amounts of recreational drugs like cannabis and ecstasy. news.com.au for more info.

nice attempted troll gumby, but I know you aren't that stupid :/

I'm not really going to participate in this thread besides this post but I'd just like to point out that I strongly disagree with your complaint about seeing a doctor for $23. $23 is a pultry sum of money to see a doctor when you compare it to just about any other service, plus the government rebate is currently set at $24, they are already paying more than you are.

I won't even go into your explantion of your lung problems which barely touch base with reality.

The dollar figure attatched to maintaining your health is irrelevant. My point was that we actually have to pay ANYTHING at all. Also, just because you have the luxury or have had the luxurious upbringing of deeming $23 a measly amount, doesn't make it necessarily so. You really need to do some debating 101 hey. You can't even understand posts properly.


Thank god you didn't go into anything for me.


last edited by slap69 at 13:32:05 31/Aug/04

nice attempted troll gumby, but I know you aren't that stupid :/

No I'm just old enough to remember the Vietname war, Salvador, Nicuarga *spelling*, Panama and the total f*** up that is Haiti. Good intentions, poor execution, and very bad control of its dogs of war has lead to some pretty unsavory activity on the US's behalf, especially the "Specialist" (terroris) training camps of Salvador where Pinochet's secret police where trained, 30,000+ policial prisoners still unaccounted for.

The US should contain itself until it has just cause and UN backing. Likewise we should too.

Okay you are a socialist, I don't think we will ever see eye to eye.