Clyde Rathbone, thats it thats all that needs to be said, 21 year old Union Player from South Africa now playing for Australia, cost one pooftenth the salary that Wendel cost us, and his 1st performance for Australia, brilliant. There are just as many telanted Island Nation players we could buy rather than having them go North to France or England. As for the forward pack, what can you say.

As for England, they played a pretty good game, the score doesn't really reflect the effort there forwards put in for 50-60mins, the last 20mins was all Australia.

The difference with comparing him to wendall though is that Australian Rugby Union have stated they got wendall over to increase Rugby's ratings, not because he was necessarily a good player. Hes better in league anyway...

I saw that rathbone for like 5 minutes, pretty quick!

You're a rehab, these top league players are increasing interest and attracting a new audience. They're making more money than they cost. Lote and Wendell and Mat Rogers have brought so much, whether they play well or not isn't the point, the commercial side has more benefits short or long term.

if there so bad how else is so much better to replace them from the australian team. pritty sad when some guys from league can go over and go into the australian team pritty easy

Well Mat Rogers and Lote Tiquri are great players... You can't tell me there's a better wing available than Lote at the moment...

rogers, tuqiri and sailor would all walk into the Australian league team.

Sailor is lucky to make the wallaby side and Rogers seems to be in favour, though I don't rate him that highly.

if there so bad how else is so much better to replace them from the australian team. pritty sad when some guys from league can go over and go into the australian team pritty easy

Was that mean to read ...

"If they're so bad, who else is so much better that they can replace them in the Australian team? Pretty sad when some guys from league can go over and get into the Australian team pretty easily."

Apart from conversing like a 2 year old. You might do well to go look at the playing history of some League greats. More then a few of them have Rugby backgrounds and only made the change becuase it was a professional (ie. they got paid) sport.

lote is worth every cent they pay him

i dont rate wendell in union
well, i certainly rate rodgers higher than wendell anyway

lol yes close obes sorry just out of bed. still i think they should stop lookin to league to buy players and develope there own players. Look at all the young players the broncos develop how often do they take a player from union or another league team . not very often

lets not start this argument again
















but for the record off the top of my head - Wally Lewis, Ricky Stuart, Dally Messenger, Bradley Clyde, Michael O'Connor, the Walters brothers, Craig Polla-Mounter and the list goes on.

Wendell Sailor is the only player that the ARU have poached that doesn't have a Rugby Union background.

ook at all the young players the broncos develop how often do they take a player from union or another league team .

you mean guys like Karmichael Hunt and Berrick Barnes who were both playing Rugby Union only last year? thanks for clearing that up.

Rugby Union has developed its own players for 100 years and seen them be pillaged by League. It still develops its own players - as I said above, Sailor is the only guy thats been poached that doesn't have a Union background.

"Look at all the young players the broncos develop how often do they take a player from union or another league team "

You mean like how they tried to take Elton Flatley ?

that was canterbury that went after flatley - they also chased lomu, horan, little and Tune. f*** they would have had a sweet backline if they were successful!

nah Broncos went after flatley as well... As far back as school boy.

I dont think ALL rugby league players should be taken away, I agree with alot here when I say that Lote really is in my opinion one of the best wingers around... probably NOT as good as Rococoko (sp?) from NZ, but his second to him only. And that try he scored from the quick hands of Gitau (the BEST new player imo, and totally underrated) was just genius.

I think Sailor needs to lift his game, dont kick him out, just put him on the bence and let him improve.

I think the one that needs to go is the coach for his CRAPPY starting selections in the past.

matt gitau - should be starter
sailor - should be on the bench
roth - should be full back instead of rogers (more experience, more talent).
Lote should have been in starting line up a long time ago.

And our forward pack is playing SHOCKING game, get rid of the coach and bring in Brumbies coach!!

sorry but pretty sure that hunt was playing rugby cause he went to a rugby school...

Mind you, could be wrong.

"bring in Brumbies coach" heheh ... yeah right

also Jo Roth is retiring, god knows why the man has skill and still plenty fit enough.

Hunt went to forrest lake i think... He played my school mates (lauries) in afl too haha. Took the piss with his step aye!

Surely the advantage of all the league players going to origin is it means less league!

Surely the advantage of all the league players going to origin is it means less league!

You mean Union right?

I agree with epi, the reason big name league players are being head hunted by Rugby is to bring in money, through publicity, sponsorship and an increased fan base. These guys are running a buisness and they know that big name league converts will make them more money in the long run then they will lose and this means they can spend more money on young up and coming players.

Also I don't understand how you can be so against league converts that you think it is better to import players from other countries, at least the league converts are australian. Not to mention that the only one you seem to have a problem with is Sailor and yet he is the one making all the money for the ARU, it's no coincidence that he's doing all the comercials.

less league the better.

oh, and no offence to rathbone, but in 2 of those tries he was just jonny on the spot. any winger should have scored them.

the third was all him tho.

Still not bad for a debut...

As Rugby being a sport and needing sponsors dollars, they have already succeeded why continue, its already damned near impossible to get tickets to international events, and its more expensive than league for season tickets. And public appeal is already at a all time hign after the WRC.

Sure when they brought Wendall he was a big draw card, but he hasn't light up the game as much as he did in his league days.

Loti is the only deserved convert for a jersey in the run on side.

Rodgers deserves a spot in the squad but to be replaceing Latham? Comon Eddie get over it, Latho's a slob and will never roll his socks up, get over it.

Matt Giteau, Brenden Cannon, George Smith and Joe "Magic Toes" Roth simply the best on the field.

Point is, why does Union need League Players, we only lost the WRC and Bledisloe cups since the introduction of this tactic.

PS As Nobody (John Elles as in "Nobody's Perfect" because of fis perfect record as captain) said on Saturday night, he was glad that the ARU didn't sign John's and he agreed with Phil Kearns that the ARU should focus on developing talent rather than poaching it from another code.

last edited by GumbyNoTalent at 13:24:45 28/Jun/04

Joe roth is past his use by date i reckon... That is all.

He was looking it before the other night, he certainly deserved Man of the Match, he's one of our only first class backs. Although the others are good, they can't run angles and carve up a defence like him. I think Steve Larkham and George Gregan especially are greatly overrated. It was interesting to see that a lot of the time Gregan wasn't getting the ball from the breakdown a lot of the time.

Oh and btw, it's Roff

last edited by epi. at 13:54:39 28/Jun/04

My brother didn't sit next to Joe Roth in class back at Marist College Canberra - it was Joe Roff. I'd hoped an Ashgrove Old Boy like yourself Gumby would have known this. Gunga lora :-)

A good winger is always in the right place at the right time, there's no such thing as "Johnny on the spot" (apart from our PM), only a good support player. Rathbone has shown his abilities against the current world champions and deserves a start in the next Test.

State of Origin and the Grand Final are the only league games worth watching thanks to Roy and HG, the rest are bash and barge games. Union is more of a spectacle and they get larger crowds too - Suncorp Stadium attendance record anyone?

Oh and btw, it's Roff

My brother didn't sit next to Joe Roth in class back at Marist College Canberra - it was Joe Roff. I'd hoped an Ashgrove Old Boy like yourself Gumby would have known this. Gunga lora :-)

I know I was just having a blonde monday, but thanks for pointing it out, I feel more of a GumbyNoTalent now... :)

"Current world champions" Hardly mate, they are missing 12 players from the sqaud that won the tournament.

I knew it was roff but said roth cause gumby did, haha me = dumbarse.

The real test is NZ... Best team in the world player for player.

Epi i agree! Gregan is s***, cant pass very well and its the main aspect of his game. OVERRATED

Leon Trotsky clearly doesn't know wht hes talking about.

and as for this comment

I think Steve Larkham and George Gregan especially are greatly overrated.

personally I think gregan is a genious but there are arguments either way about his playing style. But to call Larkham overrated is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. He is the best 5/8 in either code bar none. sure Jonny is a great player and his kicking helps, but nobody breaks open a game like Larkham. Larkham is like a combination of Jonny and Carlos, kicking aside he has every skill Carlos has and every skill Jonny has - but minus the f***ups.

The real test is NZ... Best team in the world player for player.

June 17 can't wait, I also think the Springboks are looking to redem themselves from their lackluster WRC performance, and going on the SA Super 12 performance the player have vastly improved themselves in the last year. Bring on the Tri Nations.

"Current world champions" Hardly mate, they are missing 12 players from the sqaud that won the tournament.

Excuses are like arseholes, everybodies got one or 12 in this case.

I honestly think Wendell should consider playing in the forwards, say as number 8 or maybe a breakaway. If he does stay in the backs I think it may be as a center (but I'd pick Giteau and Mortlok ahead of him at the moment). But I don't think he has the secondary skills wingers need (kicking and catching the high ball).

Union is more of a spectacle and they get larger crowds too - Suncorp Stadium attendance record anyone?

Origin 2 drew virtually the same amount - 52500 seems about the capacity.

Karmichael Hunt went to Churchie Macca.

Gregan cant pass? haha f***ing right. Yeah, he is getting a bit slower in his old age but to say he can't pass is f***ing ridiculous. I agree they should mebbe think about bringing in Josh Valentine or Chris Whitaker. While he isn't playing his best, Gregan is yet to cost the Wallabies a game.

I agree with Spidz in that Stephen Larkham is the best flyhalf out there. Over rated my f***ing balls. I think you must concentrate on a person's kicking or somthing stupid and Soccer related :D because I have no idea how you can say Larkham isn't a golden god. He just spots tiny holes and seemlesly slides into them in a way that makes you just go "How the fruity f*** did he find that gap!?"

Matt Rodgers is a f***ing great player, as is Tuquiri. It might just be that he is injured and we havn't seen him play for a while so people have forgetten what he can do...but Rodgers makes bloody great runs.

As for Clyde Rathbone...what a little champo! I'm very glad he didn't stay in South Africa as that would have only caused trouble for us. Matt Gitau is a bloody fantastic player too. He will be even better by the next world cup. It's good to see that we have all these young and hopefulls that will be in their prime by the next world cup.

South Africa just kicked Wales ass on the weekend. It seems NZ, SA and AUS are all playing pretty well at the moment so we should have a bloody good Tri-Nations series on our hands.

All in all, w00t for Australia.

f*** me... Ive seen wingers and forwards pass better then gregan! And im 100% serious. His passing is sloppy and slow, dodgy if you ask me considering his position. And hes an arrogant little f***er too. Noone out of Australia likes him cause all he does is chat into the refs ear trying to get piddly little decisions go his way, he just whinges and whines.

Overrated > Definitely.

I do agree however that Larkham is pure class.

a guy i know, his brother plays union, and he used to live with wendell a fair while back, when he was playing league i believe, and wendell used to even say 'wendell is here to put bums on seats'

We need to put this argument to rest...

and gather the best of league and the best of union... make a game that is half league half union...

and then they play... the ratings would be insane, everyonee would watch

Wendell, Lote, whatever. Rugby still gets the rough end of the pine apple when it comes to cross code raiding.

Todays' CM had a small article saying that last week was the Queensland Schools Rugby Trials, and guess which code (League or Rugby) was there shopping. Give you a hint, it wasn't rugby.

It seems that the NRL still thinks of Rugby as a junior competion that exists primarily to supply ready made talent to League. It is time that this attitude was retired.

Rugby could change this attitude if they could stop so many young Rugby players from switching codes. At the moment there are 15 top level domestic League teams offering players the chance to play professionally. At the same time there are only 3 top level domestic Rugby teams offering players the chance to play professionally. Obviously, by switching codes a player improves his chance of getting a contract.

I think that Rugby should spend money developing a fully professional domestic Rugby competition, primarily to provide a better career path for young Rugby players and hopefully to keep them playing Rugby. Perhaps the money to do this could come from the same place they find money to poach established League players. And if Rugby authorities still felt the need to poach League talent, they could adopt the League tactic.

You think that the NRL made a fuss over the prospect of Rugby poaching one of their older established stars? Imagine the fuss if Rugby began poaching half their junior talent before they ever got near an NRL team. And then things would stand as they should do.

For the record, I find League a silly, boring and somewhat childish game, when compared to the grace in motion that is Rugby.

You mean Union right?

buh, yeh, of course :)

Its Joe ROFF, with 2 F's not Joe RoTH.

Just clearing that up.

Also, Union has plenty of talent, they definately dont need to go to league.

I agree, it hasnt really made them win more, so leave them and stop giving poeple like Andrew Johns a reason to have a FAT head.

f*** me... Ive seen wingers and forwards pass better then gregan! And im 100% serious. His passing is sloppy and slow, dodgy if you ask me considering his position.

you sir are an ass - if you went to every national coach in the world and asked who they would like to have as their half back, every single one would say George Gregan. Whitaker has a marginally crisper pass but hasn't really proven himself in real pressure situations like Gregan has, but in addition to that Gregan is an amazing leader, defends like a backrower and just offeres so much more that other halfbacks don't. Joost Van de Westhuizen is a perfect example, sure he doesn't have a great pass, but he is still one of the best half-back ever to play the game.

Todays' CM had a small article saying that last week was the Queensland Schools Rugby Trials, and guess which code (League or Rugby) was there shopping. Give you a hint, it wasn't rugby.

yep, so true. When I played in the QLD Schools trials for GPS 2 back in 1998 there were Rugby League scouts everywhere and heaps of guys were getting training squad offers and the like. Its not about what game you prefer, its about what game you can make a living in. I didn't get offered s*** and only spoke to two scouts, but if I was offered anything at all I would have jumped at the chance and I hate league. Fact is there is a pool of about 600 proffessional league players in Australia, while there is a pool of about 100 proffesional Union players - so its alot easier to geta start in League.

Of the guys from my age group that played in the Australian schoolboys titles that year, about 70% of them now play or have played League of some description since then. Even Junior Pelasasa had a stint in League, David Lyons was almost signed with the Roosters, the Raiders went after George Smith - the list goes on.

From my QLD schoolboys side, we had 22 players and 9 of them are leaguies now - 3 or 4 play proffesional union, a couple play club (like me) and the others don't play at all. Yet at the time we were all Ra Ra's who hated league, with the exception of Jon Olzard who was a leaguie from way back :/

Lately ive lost alot of faith in gregan as a player. Every scrum I see now he waits so long to feed (I saw at least two penalties against us because he was waiting too long to feed), every time its an australian feed the opposition half back will be right on the number eight trying to spoil and often he will spoil gregan because gregan is waiting trying to draw penalties. When its an opposition feed I hardly ever see gregan right up on the number eight trying to spoil back. While he doesnt hurt the team as such hes not exciting to watch and I cant help but wonder what other half backs might bring to the team. Gregan certainly has no problems passing or tacking, however, we might be missing out on other areas of the game with gregan.

Im really happy that rathbone got a chance to show how good he is, hopefully hell be in replacing Wendall. Lote plays well and deserves his place in the team, wendell doesnt.

Matt rogers has alot of potential because he played school boy rugby and knows the code. The dell doesnt know how to play rugby even still.

oh, and no offence to rathbone, but in 2 of those tries he was just jonny on the spot. any winger should have scored them.

Johnny on the spot hey mate? Another Ignorant person who has never played a game. Only he would have been able to do that because of 2 factors - 1) Autonomous skill conditioning for certain situations dependant on his ability and 2) the fact that he plays second fiddle to LOTE and Wendall - he lifted!!!

A good winger is always in the right place at the right time, there's no such thing as "Johnny on the spot" (apart from our PM), only a good support player. Rathbone has shown his abilities against the current world champions and deserves a start in the next Test.

Johnny on the spot hey mate? Another Ignorant person who has never played a game. Only he would have been able to do that because of 2 factors - 1) Autonomous skill conditioning for certain situations dependant on his ability and 2) the fact that he plays second fiddle to LOTE and Wendall - he lifted!!!

those arent things that are special to rathborne you gits. it's things that ALL wingers should have, and any that make the australian team do have.

don't get me wrong, i'm not saying he's not a great player, and he probably is a international winger, but i'd expect any winger in the australian team to have scored the first two tries.

also, larkham is a great 5/8 th anyone who thinks otherwise is on crack. best in either code ? i dunno, darren lockyer is just as good imo. I'd say latham is better then wilkinson with out a doubt. But carlos is preety good, hard to judge that one really, seen as how he is a kiwi, that automatically makes him suck.

WRC IS WORLD RALLY CHAMPIONSHIP. THE RUGBY WORLD CUP IS RWC.
(ehehe woops, ment larkham)

last edited by giririsss at 22:59:29 28/Jun/04

Although he was pretty much handed the tries on a silver platter, Part of being a good player is being in the right spot at the right time

huon, I don't agree with you.

I wouldn't want to see anymore teams because the standard of play would drop. Super 12 rocks - a fully internationally tri-nations season.

except that latham plays fullback and gets shafted with selection choices, and LARKHAM is the incumbent and entrenched pivot.

Lately ive lost alot of faith in gregan as a player. Every scrum I see now he waits so long to feed (I saw at least two penalties against us because he was waiting too long to feed),

what crack are you smoking? do you know anything about Rugby? the hooker signals to the halfback when to feed, and seeing as our front row is on rollerskates against good packs it takes them a while to get set.

as for harassing the opposition halfback on their own ball, it all depends on the channel in the scrum, Gregan harasses other halfbacks like nobodies business, main reason you rarely see it these days is because he was so good at it most oppositions run the ball down the tighhead channel to avoid him, thus slowing down their ball - please don't comment on s*** you clearly know nothing about.

giri: latham plays fullback and isn't in the wallaby run on side, but don't let your ignorance on the players name get in the way of your obviously ediucated knowledge of the subject :/

*sigh*

and 'jonny on the spot' is such a cliche for the armchair sportsfan.

you have to read the play, run the right angles, suck in defenders, backup the correct player etc etc.

its like saying Ben tune was just 'Jonny on the spot' because most of his tries he scored untouched on the end of the backline - ie. a f***ing stupid thing to say.

PS: Carlos Spencer is a showman, not a quality player. He doesn't cut it in defence and will struggle to hold his All Blacks spot when the pressure cooker of Tri-Nations starts.

except that latham plays fullback and gets shafted with selection choices

how so? he has had endless opportunity and failed to perform at test level - he's a Super 12 Specialist, much like Spencer.

Yeah Latham always gets shafted. It's a farken joke.

I don't like gregan, and will be pleased to see a new new number 9 next year.

Australia's front row has indeed been s***house since after the Lions tour. Was that 00 or 01?

well, i don't believe hes gotten the run hes deserved thats all...you might be right with him underperforming for the wallabies, its just so disappointing seeing what hes capable of in the super 12 and then it not happening in Tests

I just don't understand how you can say a guy that has played close to 50 tests and never ever really done anything of note gets shafted by the selectors.

he has been outstanding in Super 12 for years and still is, but the selectors lost patience with him at Test Level and fair enough after bloody 50 test matches.

Front Row has pretty much been ordinary since Lions tour of 01, and even then it wasn't great. Ever since blades brothers retired we haven't had a great scrum.

and can someone please explain to me whyy they think Gregan is s*** besides what they read in the paper when the wallabies got bagged all the way through to the World Cup final.

Newsflah: the people bagging him knew nothing about Rugby, much like yourselves I suspect.

latham is a great player, but roff is having a great time at full back too. hard to call either way, both play well, better then rogers.

also, it might be a cliche (and was used as such) but it fits the description well. sure he has to do all those things, but would you expect any winger to not? (in the aus side anyway).

as for the carlos bashing, i dunno he seems preety solid i never really pay much attention to him.

i don't know of anyone better in nz. but who cares, it's nz.

personally I'd pick Dan Carter at 5/8 for NZ and bring back Aaron Mauger to inside centre, but I think the selectors are going to go back to old faithful Mehrtens.

and I didn't rate Rogers that highly either, but f*** he was good in super 12 at the start of the year.

spidz you got a triple post ultra combo bonus before!

I don't care what you say about you knowing more about Rugby than everyone else here...you have to admit that George's passes have gotten slower off rucks and scrums in the last couple of years.

meh, I say put a marksman on top of the goal posts with a crossbow an then I'll show you "sport"

you have to admit that George's passes have gotten slower off rucks and scrums in the last couple of years.

why would I admit that when its untrue? He has never had the BEST pass, but he has a very good pass and his percieved slowness has coincided with a forward pack getting worse and worse.

Hell we may have beaten the poms 51-15 but our forwards still got completely arseraped again.

meh, I say put a marksman on top of the goal posts with a crossbow an then I'll show you "sport"

Without fail every f***ing sports thread you chime up with some s***ty one liner that only you find funny, f*** off troll

^^ hahaha

this thread is over

I wouldn't want to see anymore teams because the standard of play would drop. Super 12 rocks - a fully internationally tri-nations season.

I do love Super 12, but as spidz pointed out, rugby teams employ around 100 professional footballers, while league teams employ around 600 professional footballers. What this means for Rugby is that some (perhaps most) of the talented players that the ARU pays to develop wind up as superstars of league.

It seems to me that the only way that rugby can get the return it deserves on its investment in development is to provide a way for more young rugby players to become professional rugby players. Until this happens league will remain the largest beneficiary of rugby's investment.

Back to your point, I don't think that Australia needs more Super12 teams in order to provide more places for professional rugby players. I think the answer might be to invest money in club rugby in order to raise the profile of that competition. If club rugby had a higher profile, then crowds would be bigger, club incomes would be higher and the prestige of winning a higher profile competition would perhaps motivate clubs to pay the money necessary to assemble a winning list. All of a sudden there could be a significant increase in the number of professional footballers employed by rugby clubs, all without messing too much with super 12.

last edited by hUON at 00:33:24 29/Jun/04

I just don't understand how you can say a guy that has played close to 50 tests and never ever really done anything of note gets shafted by the selectors.

he has been outstanding in Super 12 for years and still is, but the selectors lost patience with him at Test Level and fair enough after bloody 50 test matches.

Come off it Spidz, Latho rules supreme in the last metre save tackle at all levels, he's attacks for Australia have been inspired and his kicking, well we will leave that one go cause at best he is an average kicker, to say he never did anything spectacular when playing for Australia would also be a lie. 1999 RWC (see I got it right this time) anyone watch it? Especially the quarter final?

Latham reminds me of andy bichel - gets screwed constantly by selectors :)
While I was in NZ over the weekend it was interesting reading the newspaper (Otago Daily Times) the morning after the two games.
NZ thought they were going to walkover australia, until sunday morning when the sports section was in a stir about how good aussie played and how s*** nz played against the pumas - but NZ were playing there "second rate team" even though that team could win a world cup.
Also just a note - karmichael is a league player, a GPS school "poached" him to help there 1st15 campaign. He missed many a game because league took priority.

I think the answer might be to invest money in club rugby in order to raise the profile of that competition. If club rugby had a higher profile, then crowds would be bigger, club incomes would be higher and the prestige of winning a higher profile competition would perhaps motivate clubs to pay the money necessary to assemble a winning list

f***ing oath!

Gumby I'm not saying he NEVER did anything good, I'm saying he has faied to cement his place with consistent performances. He got his chance last year and was picked at fullback against the poms in June and had one of the worst games I've ever seen a fullback play. And your opinion doesn't count cause although you clearly know alot about Rugby, its common knowledge that everyone from Wests want to boof Latho up the poop chute ;)

its common knowledge that everyone from Wests want to boof Latho up the poop chute ;)

Oh comon zpidz don't be jealous, I want to boof one up you as well. :)

True about the Wests and their love afair with Latham, but its no where near as arse licking of homoerotic as Brother's supports and Ealesee...

wanting to boof latho up the poop chute is half the reason Wendell has moved over to Wests, maybe he won't be so popular anymore ;)

and yes Brothers do have some rather homoerotic tendencies regarding Eales, much like Souths and Horan/Little and Uni with noddy.

PS: how far back do you go with the bitches over at the kennel, do you know Ken Swenson?

True about the Wests and their love afair with Latham

The man did reschedule his wedding/honeymoon just to play in a final... He had the ceremony in the morning then came to the ground and played the game then had the reception then went back to the club... thats commitment....

PS: how far back do you go with the bitches over at the kennel, do you know Ken Swenson?

Lawl...

i was a latham fan until I realised he was a waratah in disguise.

Lawl...

??? no idea what you on about there Boxhead.

how far back do you go with the bitches over at the kennel, do you know Ken Swenson?

I started playing for Wests in 1982 and finished in 1994 when I went overseas and then down to Sydney for work in 96 when I got back, where I played some social union and ole boys for Warringah for my ole mate Ray Brown. Sorry but the name doesn't ring a bell, but I was never any good remembering names, faces are another matter.

he's been president of Wests for about 20 years (?) I think....

not sure what boxes lawl is either, maybe its in rgards to the swenson clan.

Joe Nowak is/was the Pres.