I'll provide some linkage when I get a chance to find some (saw it on Cable).

WTF where they thinking!!!!!!

this is MARK WAUGH!!!!

SHAME TO THE ACB

harsh

i thought he would get another chance . .. .

right here

I guess we're not going to get anyone out by catching them in the slips then :(

yeah this sucks ass....

shoulda given him at least one if not two test's against the poms...

he avereaged 84 or 86 against them last time!!!

what a suck, and yes our slips cordon (sp?) will loose the best in the world :(

about time he was dropped. he's s***.

u cant keep someone on just because they've been there a long time and they're high profile and done good things in the past.

I didnt recognise who the guy was replacing him wheres he from anyway?

about time he's been dropped.

So sick of Australia hanging onto out of form batsmen for to long.. POINTS AT MARK f***EN TAYLOR!!!

imho Mark Waugh was never worthy of a position in the test side for as long as he's had one, he has a serious problem with going on with it once he makes a good start (whats his top score in test matches? 153........)

Thats not very impressive for someone who's been in the test arena for 11 years..

Replacement is Darren Lehmann from South Australia

http://www-aus.cricket.org/link_to_database/PLAYERS/AUS/L/LEHMANN_DS_02003329/

Junior has been surviving on reputation alone for a while now.

Lehmann deserves a chance against the Poms at Test level and considering how bad they look he should get some decent batting practice.

Waugh should still get a look in for the one day side though but this will be his last summer in the green and gold.

Yeah it's pretty unfortunate that he gets dropped at this point in time - I'm sure some of our grade cricket players would be able to score runs against the poms.

It would be nice if the selectors warned players that they were in serious danger of getting the bullet if they didn't perform in the next test so that, in Mark Waugh's case for example, he could at least announce his retirement before that match rather than just wake up one morning and realising you've been dropped.

I'm sure if Mark & Steve were still in the test team and the end of this summer and still weren't performing they would both retire. Would be nice to have a sendoff rather than get dumped like that :(

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! He's retired.

A sad day for Australian cricket indeed :(

finally, glad to see the sod go.
hes been involved with so many issues regarding racism, match fixing, and being a faget, tho not to the extent of his brother.

i wish australia would smarten up, then that would be an awesome team :)

Sorry? Oh so Sri Lanka/India/Pakistan are the golden-haired puritan sides of world cricket are they Tung? Please, don't get me started with comments like that.

EHEHHEHE, dem fightin words!

GO GO GO!

mark who?

About time they got rid of him, it's now only time till steve and shane goes...i hate all three of them... steve and mark have become so s***...they don't have "GAME" anymore.. and shane is just a tosser.

Pfft, Brett Lee is the biggest tosser in the side. I can't stand watching him and his 'tude when he's trying to intimidate the batsmen, it just pisses me off. Same with McGrath, although from what I hear his problem is he's a sledging lamer. They should have fat, serious fines for sledging.

go back to gridiron trog =)

sledging's all in the game

Mark Waugh was great but he should have been dropped 2yrs ago...


I also hate brett lee, he's such a pretty boy and since his elbow op he's been useless (not that ia can play cricket well)

who cares
its cricket.

sledging's all in the game

When I was a kid, I played a lot of sport at school. I was never particularly awesome at anything I played, but I gave it all a good shot, playing tennis, cricket, soccer, and just about anything else I could. Team sports were always my favourite, and continue to be in computer games.

The one thing that was common through every game I played was a sense of fair play no matter what. I can't remember if it was a particular coach, or teacher, or if it was my parents or a combination of them all, but to me the only thing that matters in sport is playing fairly and respecting not only your teammates, but your opposition.

Sledging, booing, cheating - its all the same. Being a good sport is what its all about, at least for me.

i agree with that.

brett lee = PRETTY BOY...

sledging is a bit of fun

at the end of the day, aussie men can shake hands and have a beer, sportsmanship has nothing to do with sledging in my opinion

anyone who thinks otherwise takes their games way too seriously and need to lighten up

gee, now this would apply nicely to counterstrike wouldn't it fags?

you play well in CS, you'll get a lot of flak, depending on the type of MAN you are, you'll either continue to play well, or flame back like a pimpled little retard

or you could go to QGL and use OGC.....

i got in so much trouble at school for sledging. gay ass politics.

fade that was a demonstration for the last time =)

about 95% of those people had never even SEEN any cheats

so i enlightened them, took OGC off my pc and continued playing as per normal

after hearing this i was initially angry because i think Mark Waugh is such a talented player who's just been underperforming.

But then i thought about it and i suppose he's just never recovered from the match fixing scandals and he he's really had quite a while to do that so there's no excuse for him.

I think it's a pity he's been axxed on a down note though.

trogs hit the nail on the head.

now i know my namesake (ranatunga) has been a right f*** in the past (and im not proud of that, but i am proud of my sri lankan heritage) but the current sri lankan team is the nicest bunch of guys you can meet. most of them are really unassuming cainers that have put in their own hard earned money to be able to fly overseas and compete, as cricket is only professional for very few players in the sri lankan squad.

the fact that the aussies get waited on hand and foot i think spoils them, they dont see the true pride in representing your country... you know you love what you do when you spend your life savings in order to buy new cricket gear and fly overseas to represent your country.

einstein there is a difference between normal banter and defamatory racist comments...

the age old story of steve waugh sledging an indian batsmen during an invitational tour, and then when the batsman's shoe broke, holding it up and ridiculing the fact he couldnt afford a new pair...

the pace bowlers hold the biggest blame but the younger members of the squad are following suit, apparently defamatory comments which can land you a heavy fine in the real world, is perfectly acceptable on the field... to the ACB anyway.

theres got to be some better policing of it, i dont mind normal banter between the batsmen and the fielders, but when it becomes directed personally and culturally based, thats out of hand.

i'd say glenn mcgrath is probably the most "intimidating" and provocative in the australian squad. Numerous times he pretends he is going to throw the ball at the wickets when there really is no hope of a run out.

shhhhsssh off topic.... :P

Im just dissapointed that Mark Waugh isn't in the side, i like his cricket and think he sets a good example for representing Australia in the world stage...

but then again, everydog has his day, you've gota go sometime!

The guy who replaces him has big shoes to fill, not to mention the whole slip thing!

As for the sledging thing... thats what pace bowelers do! although there is a line and the practise of crossing this line probably happens more then people like to talk about...

everyone does it! in essence sport is just an extention of Battle but without the killing and such... stiring each other up is just part of the 'battle'

i wouldn't put the racist defamatory remarks in the same basket as sledging in the first place

i'd put that in the "illegal" basket actually

frankly thats what sledging degrades to, ive heard from a few sources that if normal sleding isnt 'getting through' to the batsman, the team will work harder and harder, often pulling out statements that dont belong in decent society.

so yeah :)

boooo .. m waugh is alegend

oh no the big bad australian players are saying bad words and being mean to me.

It's a professional sport, meaning winning _is_ everything. And Australia will do anything to win.

What, including "cheating" (surely sledging is against the rules) and sheer bad sportsmanship, not to mention poorly representing their country? f*** that; I'd like to think Australians have a good reputation around the world of not only being avid sportsmen, but good sportsmen as well.

If you can't win through skill at the game, you don't deserve to win at all.

I don't know why Australia cops so much s*** for sledging. Everyone does it.

Maybe it is because they are one of the few countries who are actually good at it. Most of the other cricket nations are from third world countries so I guess they haven't learnt to read yet.

Or maybe it's because they have enjoyed so much success, so people have to scrutinize other things about them (a much more likely scenario).

I play 5th grade cricket. Good sportsmanship is the way to go there. Both teams are mates, everyone plays properly with no dirty tactics. Maybe the odd thing is said out in the field, but there is no malice behind it. Sometimes when I go to watch a 1st grade side play I am f***ing suprised by the ultra competitivness of it all. All they want to do is win, which is fair enough, they are all damn fine cricketers and they want to be the best. Imagine how competitive and intense test sides must get, and how much they want to win. Thousands of dollars are at stake, and if getting the edge on their opponents means shouting a few words at them, then so be it.

theres a difference between sledging, and racially defamatory comments

one can land you with a fine and a whole bunch of issues in the normal world, so why should it be immune out there on the field?

sure i partake in friendly jibing out on the field, making the odd comment about how the batsmen is clueless

but when you start making commments that are harshly directed at the batmsens culture and heritage ('dont worry guys, soon he'll turn to mecca and start praying, we can get him then... just gotta watch out for the bomb strapped to his chest")

that sort of s*** is uncalled for, anywhere.

don't know why Australia cops so much s*** for sledging

because its f***ing lame?

sure i partake in friendly jibing out on the field, making the odd comment about how the batsmen is clueless

Then you're a lamer. If I played cricket now and some idiot fieldsman felt the need to make some smartass comments, I'd walk up to him and politely ask him to stop saying that. Because I'd be wrapped in armour and weilding a long wooden club, I'd like to think he'd be smart enough to realise I was fairly serious about it, and if he didn't stop, I'd complain to the umpire. Racist stuff is obviously even worse.

I'd say that in general Australian cricketers in the current test side don't have the flair of personality that was found in eras gone past, IE no boony, healy or an AB, etc. We have plenty of great players but no stand out characters, and think because of this some of them honestly lack the wit to produce any greater sledging than racial abuse or derogatory comments of any other nature, Ian Healy was well known for his quick wit behind the wickets, and so added a bit of character to the game.

I'd say this is a major problem with Australian sport in general, it has become so professional that players have become so stereotyped and can't say anything out of line lest they be repremanded by the governing body, remember gilchrist copped a fine for saying he though murili was a chucker, well I think 10 years ago people would have said good on him for saying his mind.

Anyway about the Mark Waugh thing, I think Lehmann is a good replacement but like I heard on the news, you're replacing a 39 yr old with a 34 yr old, when the selectors need to be looking for a long term replacement.

i don't think i've sledge someone and don't think i ever will but.....

if i'm playing a knockabout game of something or other with friends i think a little bit of sledging is harmless fun, we all know it's a joke. If you're playing against people you don't really know then that a nother ball game entirely. Racism sucks in general so i won't even touch on it.

Then you're a lamer. If I played cricket now and some idiot fieldsman felt the need to make some smartass comments, I'd walk up to him and politely ask him to stop saying that. Because I'd be wrapped in armour and weilding a long wooden club, I'd like to think he'd be smart enough to realise I was fairly serious about it, and if he didn't stop, I'd complain to the umpire. Racist stuff is obviously even worse.

Get a backbone trog.

If someone is making those sort of comments about you when you're batting it is usually -

1. Because you are pretty good, and not getting out, in which case you should take it is a compliment.

2. Because you are an unco, and they know you will be out soon and they know saying words to this inexperienced newbie will try and make them slog it and get out. In this case, you should learn how to bat.

Seriously, they're just words, get over it.

If I played cricket now and some idiot fieldsman felt the need to make some smartass comments, I'd walk up to him and politely ask him to stop saying that. Because I'd be wrapped in armour and weilding a long wooden club, I'd like to think he'd be smart enough to realise I was fairly serious about it, and if he didn't stop, I'd complain to the umpire.

Ohhhh I am sure that would make them stop sleding you.....cmon trog I thought you said you played sport at high school, people live of that kind of thing, it would only get worse from there.

I played football not Cricket and sledging and other dirty tactics are rife. Honestly a good player shouldn't let a little sledging get to them. Simply laugh it off or if you're witty enough make a comeback.

I think though that racist remarks have no place on the field. Saying "Mate, my Mum bats better than you." is ok though ;) Unfortunately, there seems to be a double standard in every sport. We played an all aboriginal team at one point and them calling us "Crackers", "Whitie" etc. was apparently not considered racist sledging :(

Anyway, back on topic... It's a pity they gave Waugh the boot. I think he really is a good enough player that he warranted a chance to prove himself. It's unfortunate in some ways that the Pakistan series was such a whitewash. He batted what? 3 times? Not a real chance to shine.

The ACB has a history of sh*thouse decisions though. They should have left Healey in the game until he decided to retire. His keeping was fine and his batting was actually improving when they dropped him. Pretty lame considering he just wanted to play the Gabba test then retire. Yet they kept on Mark Taylor for YEARS after he lost form because he was the captain.

*shrugs* I'd like to have seen Waugh given the chance to play out this last ashes series and maybe the VB series as his final opportunity to prove himself. But that's not to be.

And I'm thinking Lehmann may not be the best replacement. There are lots of up and comers a couple years younger who'd have slotted in well. But good on him, he's probably the best domestic cricketer on the fringe even if he is getting on a bit ;)

obviously if the batsman wanted it id stop, but im just saying that theres a level between banter (its friendly, you are saying it out of jest and the batsman is usually jesting back at ya) and racial defamation

replacing a 39 yr old with a 34 yr old

a 37 yo with a 32 yo

< sledge >

What would you know about national pride trog, the only thing australian about you is the fact you live here

< /sledge >

=)

it's all fun and games, but in the end there's no malice behind it, it's just a fun jab in the ribs and maturity wins in the end

sledging and racist remarks are completely different pidgeon holes

man, I hope I never have to play sport against you lusers

Get a backbone trog.

Uh, that's what I'd be doing? Standing up for myself and not letting some lamer ruin the game for me by f***ing TALKING at me when I'm trying to concentrate? f*** that s***, if they can't get me out legitimately, they can f*** off. Sledging is f***ing stupid. There's basically no reason to talk to the other team at all in just about any sport, so why bother? It will OBVIOUSLY degenerate in most cases (hello, f***ing counter-strike?) because noone can help themselves and it'll just end up ruining the game for everyone.

Sledging is not calling someone a 'noob faget'.

Okay, I have more time to elaborate now :P

I generally field at point, which puts me fairly close to the batsman and allows me to observe exactly how well or poorly they are batting.

If I see someone constantly going on the back foot to balls they should be coming forward to, I'll say something like "this guy doesn't know where to put his feet fellas, just a matter of time before he is LBW". For different situations I'd say different things. It isn't a personal insult, and I am not talking to the batsmen I am talking to the bowler and my teammates.

Heh, how is it not a personal insult? You're deliberately going out of your way to make fun of or otherwise deride the batsman. You should say "bowling, shane!" or something like that.

In essence, all I am saying is that the batsmen doesn't know how to move his feet properly, and making a prediction as to how I think he'll get out.

If you can't handle that, then you are a sensitive little princess and should stick to your dolls back at home. Preferably not the dolls that talk, because they might say something that offends you.

Ok what Fpot is saying is Sledging, where you putting off the opposition... thats kinda acceptable

ignoring it only shows your a better player...

but the stuff trog is talking about is Insult sledging.... thats bad mmmmm kay

ive been in a few games where the wicket keeper was calling a really good batsman a pussy repeatedly just as he was about to hit the ball (this guy was a s*** wicket keeper anyway), the umpire heard it and sent him off... but the moral to that story is anyone who does that kind of sledgind will get his own back, eventually...

Talking when the bowler is running in and when the ball is being delivered is not acceptable. If I even hear a mumour as the bowler runs in, I'll pull away and ask for the ball to be bowled again.

no this is juuuuuuuuust as he was stepping back to hit it... he said it like 4 times b4 the batsman had a hissy fit and the umpire sent him off....

mind you all the times that i've ever been a wicket keeper i was concentrating on a) watching the ball b) not getting killed so god knows how this d00d took the time to say anything...

In essence, all I am saying is that the batsmen doesn't know how to move his feet properly, and making a prediction as to how I think he'll get out.

Right - so you're abusing him, got it. Good sportsmanship!

If you can't handle that, then you are a sensitive little princess and should stick to your dolls back at home. Preferably not the dolls that talk, because they might say something that offends you.

The point is, people shouldn't HAVE to handle it. Its just bad sportsmanship. It doesn't make you any more of a man, it doesn't make you a better at bowling, fielding, catching, running, or wicketkeeping. It just makes you into a loudmouth jerk who can't win off his own back. If that's the way you want to play the game, that's fine, go right ahead. But if you want to actually be recognised as a good sport, you should stow all negative comments and rely on your own skills as a player and the skills of your teammates to make the difference.

I like the guy at indoor that goes come on their only hackers
me and my batting partner took offence to this, it just so happend he bowled the next over, 26 runs later :D

If you can't handle that, then you are a sensitive little princess and should stick to your dolls back at home. Preferably not the dolls that talk, because they might say something that offends you.

GOLD

Go play with your dolls trog.

haha, dolls, I get it. What, you've run out of logical arguments? This is just like the Spectre/Carmack fight all over again; as soon as solid evidence is presented you flee! Ahahahaha! AHAHAHAHAHA.

dammnit fpot stop arguing and say more funny stuff

More implies some stuff was funny already

Fine then.

'abuse' is a criminal act. You can get in trouble with the law for it. If one of those batsmen took me to court after saying the things I said, would I get charged with abuse? I highly doubt it, so no, saying that the batsmen can't move his feet isn't 'abuse'.

You say people shouldn't have to handle it. Why not? I am doing nothing against the rules saying what I am saying. They come to cricket, to play a game which is played to a certain ruleset. Seeing as though I am not breaking any rules, then yes, they should have to put up with it. If they can't, f*** them. They can f*** off. I am not calling them a f*****, I am not directly saying that they are "f***ing s*** retarded c***s". I am not even using foul language.

Now I want to play cricket against you trog, and watch you cry as I hit you with the deep, cutting insult of "this guy can't bat guys, he is an easy wicket".

WHOA!!!! No cricketer has ever heard that one before!@!@

mark waugh has been playin bad of late, bad scores and bad fielding. So why not dump him from the test team. Put someone in who can make runs and field well

More implies some stuff was funny already

you appear to have missed the big golden letters a few posts above you, they indicate the funny.

i'm not taking sides here i've already said my piece on the matter, but i recognise funny when i see it and that way funny.

'abuse' is a criminal act. You can get in trouble with the law for it. If one of those batsmen took me to court after saying the things I said, would I get charged with abuse? I highly doubt it, so no, saying that the batsmen can't move his feet isn't 'abuse'.

pfft, lets not break into semantics of the word "abuse" here. We're looking at the difference between a good sport and a bad sport.

Re the rules, here are THE RULES, as per here.

Level 1
The Offences set out at 1.1 to 1.6 below are Level 1 Offences. The penalty for a Level 1 Offence shall be
an official reprimand and/or a fine of up to the equivalent of 50% of the player or official’s match fee
...
1.4 Using language that is obscene, offensive or insulting and/or the making of an obscene gesture
...

Level 2
The Offences set out 2.1 to 2.10 below are Level 2 Offences. The Penalty for a Level 2 Offence shall be a
fine of the equivalent of between 50% of the player or official’s match fee up to their full match fee
and/or a 1 Test Match or 2 ODI Match ban
...
2.7 Deliberate and malicious distraction or obstruction on the field of play (this supplements and does
not replace ICC Playing Condition clause 32)
...
2.9 Using language that is obscene, offensive or of a seriously insulting nature to another player,
umpire, referee, Team Official or spectator. (It is acknowledged that there will be verbal
exchanges between players in the course of play. Rather than seeking to eliminate these
exchanges entirely, umpires will look to lay charges when this falls below an acceptance
standard. In this instance, language will be interpreted to include gestures)
...

So, it is against the rules to do that sort of thing. Obviously this is open to interpretation and I can imagine (especially with clause 2.9) that most umpires would tend to be fairly lenient in most cases, but basically it is still against the rules to distract, offend or insult players. (as a side note, the rules point out a level 3 offense is if you make racist comments).

as far as i can see the things fpot have described dont' fit within those categories at all, even it if were said directly to the batter it's criticism.

Pssst, I am playing 5th grade trog, not Test matches or ODIs, so, those rules don't apply to me.

Nowhere in reading those rules (keeping in mind they don't apply anyway) do I see anything that would go against me saying, after the ball has been bowled and is being returned to the bowler, that I think the batsmen can't move his feet, and I think he'll soon be getting out LBW.

I see the words 'obscene', 'malicious' and 'insulting' used in those sets of rules. Very poor descriptions for the kind of things I say.

I don't know where you played your sport trog. What do you expect us to do? Stand out on the field like zombies, occasionally droning out the odd 'ohhh, nice ball' comment? Hardly, if a batsman is under pressure, you remind them of it. If they are there blocking away and not making any runs, you have to make sure that you say "don't worry guys he isn't making any runs, and that is what his side needs to win". You know what more often than not happens? They try to slog it, and get out.

For a few words spoken, I think it is very much worth it.

in·sult Pronunciation Key (n-slt)
v. in·sult·ed, in·sult·ing, in·sults
v. tr.

1.
1. To treat with gross insensitivity, insolence, or contemptuous rudeness.

trog while i agree with the whole "saying naughty things to other players is bad", you're not going to get rid of it at a grass-roots level unless the ppl at the top cease and desist from the undesired behaviour.. But lets look at it from that perspective also.. They're not going to stop doing something that could possibly earn them hundred of thousands of dollars in pay and endorsements...

All that being said, there nothing better in the mind of a sportsperson to overcome these remarks and play to your best, i've always been an advocate of actions speaking louder then words and I love the look you get from a would-be sledger when you hit the winning run or score a goal/try to win the game...

Man, you and your team are that f***ing useless that you can't apply pressure without vocalising some childish comments designed in no small way to distract the batsman from his goal? You guys must suck! Why don't you apply non-verbal pressure - field in closer, bowl better, snap the ball from the field to the keeper faster. Sure, talk it up, but say "good bowl, nice throw", all the complimentary things to keep your teammates fired up.

Also, you're playing 5th grade, and you're taking it OMG SO SERIOUSLY that you have to try and distract the batsman, cuz if you lose... oh man! Its all over! Sure, play to win by all means, but why can't you win WITH YOUR SKILLS AT THE GAME? This isn't BASEketball - there are no points for psycheouts.

In the end, what is said on the field will get you absolutely nowhere. It is how many runs you score and how many runs you bowl them out for which matters.

If saying a few words to the batsmen can possibly knock 30 runs off their total, then why not? It makes it 30 runs easier.

I am captain of the side. Never once have I had anyone complain, had an umpire speak to me, or one of the senior club people speak to me. Why? Because I am not doing a single thing wrong. Everyone does it, only a few weak individuals actually get affected by it, and they are the ones I target. You can tell whether someone is going to be affected by sledging or not.

Take a guess whether I'd sledge you or not trog.

Everyone does it, only a few weak individuals actually get affected by it, and they are the ones I target.

You sound like a bully

You sound like a softcock.

Haha, point to trog. Why can't you JUST f***ING ADMIT IT? For whatever reasons you do it, its just bad sportsmanship.

What, you had a lame one sentence response as well, that was already explained in irc. Where is my point?

When can you admit that you are a big girly boy who gets offended much too easily?

I'm not getting offended, I'm just getting annoyed at your bizarre logic and failure to understand that what you're doing is bad sportsmanship. I think you're just pissed that someone is calling you a bad sport when you've been living in a bubble thinking your a true blue aussie digger top bloke sportsman, and now you're finding out that s***, maybe that's not what other people think of how you behave.

Hmm... whether or not it's bad sportsmanship is a different question to whether it's legal according to the rules. And from what I can see it's legal.

On a side note it happens EVERYWHERE! Cricket, football, soccer etc. About the only sports it doesn't happen in are Tennis and golf. It's also not limited to Australia - watch almost any team and you'll see it, and it happens at all levels.

Personally, I find it annoying when someone sledges me and if anything it makes me lift my game - so it has the opposite effect. That doesn't mean I think it should be banned or anything. So what if someone sledges - whether it's an indirect one like fpot was talking about or a more direct "Jeez mate you really can't bat can you!" As long as it's not during a delivery who cares.

By the time you're a professional sportsman representing your country you should be used to it and able to zone it out anyway.

Trog I think Home Simpson put it best when he said "You're living in a world of make believe with pixies and elves and little fairies with bells on their feet" or somesuch.

The fact is that sledging etc is so entrenched in professional sport (cricket, soccer, afl whatever) that it won't go away, as much as you might wish it to. Of course, because it's in the sport at a professional level it filters down to the lower grades. At the end of the day, if they aren't 'breaking the rules' then you and everyone else that objects to it will just have to deal with it or, as fpot said, go and play with your dolls :) (sorry trog, but that was gold). Yes it's probably against the 'gentlemens' rules of cricket, but I don't think they are used too often these days...

In terms of the Aus cricket side they are singled out - I've seen plenty of sldging from Shoib, Singh and plenty of others getting pretty fired up but there is never too much scrutiny of those sides. Most of the batsmen seem to take it pretty well anyway - just smile and ignore it.