250mbps out of existing copper network. Created by an aussie whose surname is Pappadopallopdispoiapowpop ... 8)

http://www.gizmag.com.au/go/8240/

3-4 years? f***ers, why do they always tease us with awesomeness so far away.

What use is high speed internet if we're burdened by third world data limits?

its the price we have to pay eXemplar for having so much personal space, typo told me so

Its the price we have to pay for having 3 (2 really) connections to the rest of the world. If someone builds another (Pipe & Telstra expansion) then we may see prices fall due to competition.

At the moment, international capacity is at a premium and prices have increased if anything.

All the Optus cable plans certainly went to ghey.

Now I can't ever leave my 20/40 plan.

oh how we miss you unlimited optus/bigpond days
even netstats was a far cry better than what lots of us have now

imo more broadband, the faster our home networks become the cheaper colocation data becomes

I got some mail yesterday about optus adsl2 being available in my street. so I looked at the fineprint and uploads count towards your usage. f that

At the moment, international capacity is at a premium and prices have increased if anything.

I blame Bram Cohen. Imagine how much international bandwidth would be freed up instantly if all bittorrent traffic stopped.

so I looked at the fineprint and uploads count towards your usage

iiNet's new plans count uploads now too. *sigh*

(I'm not with iiNet, but still)

my optus cable account doesn't count uploads, 30gb/month @ $49 ... seems decent to me. all of which is kinda beside the point with regard to slap's article which is about improving speed even on existing networks.

You know that P2P is inevitable. If its not BitTorrent, its something else.

Interesting bandwidth usage statistics:

* - YouTube take up 10% of the entire worlds bandwidth.
* - MySpace accounts for 4% of all website hits in the world.


--

Oh, and on Optus, they brought that in a few months back, first with their new Fusion plans, and then they re-did the old ones.

You know that P2P is inevitable. If its not BitTorrent, its something else.

right, and until they figure out a way to cache BT (or whatever) traffic, it's going to continue to congest international internet links with people downloading tv shows, movies, music, etc.

I have heard of devices that can actually case BT traffic at the ISP level; I don't really see how they can work unless they have like terabytes of storage space to cache stuff - there's just too much stuff in transit on p2p networks for them to be effective, surely?

there's just too much stuff in transit on p2p networks for them to be effective, surely?

I'd imagine it'd only be feasible for extremely bursty data that spans a few hours and can stay in cache. Say when the latest episode of Heroes comes out. But then it becomes a muddy legal problem.

and of course that would just be the ISPs assisting usthem to pirate s*** faster, it also kinda defeats the purpose of using bit torrent (in a good way) in the first place if the ISP's are just setting up huge caching seed farms

I have terabytes of stuff, the ISPS would need peta/exabytes of storage space or better, not going to happen
also, decrypting bit torrent is "illegal" in theory
I read an article somewhere that pretty much said everyone is catching on to the whole encrypting your downloads, it said that more than 1 in 2 users was now encrypting traffic where possible, the overhead is nothing for "safety from the mpaa/riaa" etc

the most simple answer is not always the best one, we just need some revolutionary new technology to give us all 250+mbit and the ISPS terabyte/sec throughput.. (see first post)

Whatever makes my porn download faster is good in my opinion.

By encrypting do you mean using things like Peer Guardian or do you mean further encrypting files?

Don't one of the mid level ISP's here cache BitTorrent? Exetel or something?

Options -> Downloads -> Encrypt Connection (utorrent)

Its the price we have to pay for having 3 (2 really) connections to the rest of the world.

SEA-ME-WE-3 Segment S3 (AU -> SG) 40Gb/s
TASMAN 2 (AU -> NZ) 2x 560Mb/s
SXC (AU -> FIJI -> US) 240Gb/s (upgraded to 330Gb/s 2008 Q1 and 430Gb/s 2008 Q4)
SXC (AU -> NZ -> US) 240Gb/s (upgraded to 330Gb/s 2008 Q1 and 430Gb/s 2008 Q4)
AJC (AU -> GUAM -> JP) 640Gb/s
JASURAUS (AU -> INDO) 5Gb/s

After SXC was first launched they crashed the prices of international transit, which lead to the original unlimited plans in Austrlaia and that was during the dot com boom.

Telstra/Reach owns or owns part of all those links excluding SXC.
SXC is owned by TNZ (50%), Optus/Singtel (40%) and Verizon (10%).

With those existing links and SXC's planned upgrades who is going to speend $1B+ to lay another cable?

haha @ SEE ME WE

t said that more than 1 in 2 users was now encrypting traffic where possible, the overhead is nothing for "safety from the mpaa/riaa" etc

Encrypting BitTorrent does NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING to protect you from the RIAA/MPAA. They can still connect to a torrent and see exactly what your IP is downloading. All the encryption does is make it harder for ISPs to filter your traffic and give it a lower priority.

ara, anyone can prove anything with facts

Ara, you talk big, but you don't seem to know much about whats going on?

A) Telstra are planning an upgrade of the AJC, to over 1gbit capacity.
B) Pipe Networks are in the final stages of planning a cable to Guam

so, they're going to spend the money.

Oh, and it doesn't cost a billion dollars either.

Is it that you don't believe that limited competition is to blame for expensive international links and therefore, expensive internet plans?

Surely the best system is to make ISPs liable!

There's no consequences of piracy these days, except for edge case idiots who film the simpsons movie on their mobile phone (duuuuh!)

tech like this is exactly why mid-point injection should die a horrible nasty death

mongie, everything you just said doesn't change the fact that you were 2 (3, really) times off in the number of international links you said we had. Maybe you were just exaggerating for effect? Don't get pissed at ara just because he called your bulls***!

rapidshare/megaupload,etc > torrents

no uploading (no p2p essentially)
privacy
no liability
always full speed dls

sounds good to me

also 250mbits, yes please

if everyone had fast connections like that (up + down), wouldnt it eliminate the need to have lans? everyone could just have vpns.. excellent for business too (except maybe the security added in a private line)

no uploading (no p2p essentially)
privacy
no liability
always full speed dls

Dunno why you think there's privacy and no liability; all it'll take is for one of their web server logs to get handed over to the authorities and hey presto. That said, I haven't read rapidshare/megaupload's T&Cs (though I advise you to, if you use these services for wrongdoing), so maybe they have a no logging policy (like newsgroups)

Good luck to pipe.

From Commsday

And in a shot at Pipe’s planned new cable, Russell said “With AJC’s design capacity of over 1 Terabit/sec, the combined design capacity of the AJC, Southern Cross and Telstra networks will be more than 3 Terabits/sec, which is well in excess of 10 times more than the capacity currently required from Australia and more than enough for Australia’s needs for several more years,” he said. NEC of Japan will be prime contractor for the work in keeping with its long relationship with AJC.

It isn't lack of international bandwidth that is keeping prices high in Australia. It is what users are willing to pay.

Unfortunately for you unlimited broadband plans that let you download 10GB+ are not in very high demand in the population as a whole and the users that want them are willing to pay for it.


last edited by ara at 14:39:46 15/Nov/07

its still a good idea for pipe, it means they can compete at very least
they wont be paying some Tier 1 provider for transcontinental bandwidth so they will then become a T1 provider themselves

pipe rocks

mongie, everything you just said doesn't change the fact that you were 2 (3, really) times off in the number of international links you said we had. Maybe you were just exaggerating for effect? Don't get pissed at ara just because he called your bulls***!

Oh, I thought that Ara's comment justified my claim really...

SEA-ME-WE-3 Segment S3 (AU -> SG) 40Gb/s
TASMAN 2 (AU -> NZ) 2x 560Mb/s
SXC (AU -> FIJI -> US) 240Gb/s (upgraded to 330Gb/s 2008 Q1 and 430Gb/s 2008 Q4)
SXC (AU -> NZ -> US) 240Gb/s (upgraded to 330Gb/s 2008 Q1 and 430Gb/s 2008 Q4)
AJC (AU -> GUAM -> JP) 640Gb/s
JASURAUS (AU -> INDO) 5Gb/s

SXC = 480Gbit
AJC = 640Gbit
JASURAUS = 5Gbit
Tasman2 = 1Gbit
SEA-ME-WE-3 = 40Gbit.

JASURAUS

Originally conceived as a link from Australia to provide telephony services connection to the world in 1995-1996 its capacity and major role was overtaken in 2000 by the 40Gb/s SeaMeWe3 and 320Gb/s Southern Cross Cable Network It remains to this day as an emergency backup link out of Australia, as well as handling some minimal capacity for organisations such as The Australian Academic and Research Network AARNet as part of its connectivity to the APCN Cable System.

Forgive me for not including Tasman2 in my calculations as its mighty 1Gbit speed was too much for me to comprehend.

Parabol, according to this iinet doesnt put upload towards your quota. This is also backed up by my usage graphs for this month after switching to a new plan 2 weeks ago.

If you have evidence to the contrary please post it, else please be careful of what you claim on a topic like this.

Those links are still there and operational. With WDM technology constantly evolving links throughput can be upgraded relatively cheaply as we are seeing with AJC and SXC.

At the moment, international capacity is at a premium and prices have increased if anything.

Still doesn't make this statement true. International transit prices are not at a premium and I think pipes undertaking is a very risky one with SXC's and AJC's future plans.

ooh yeah you better be careful, the nerds are making a come back
also, iinet definitely do not count uplaods else I would be up s*** creek

I'm on a 40/40 plan and I upload easily 100% more than I download just because I'm very rarely at home and all my net does is download legal music/videos all day every day, so I dont mind seeding them too

it's the new naked dsl plans that they count uploads on

http://whirlpool.net.au/article.cfm/1761?show=replies

I think it might only be the naked dsl plans.
anyway it's on the front page of whingepool

^ efb!

My whole argument is based on comments by the CEO of Internode - Simon Hacket. He was talking about the reasons behind price increases that internode brought in a few months ago.

I can't find the thread on Whirlpool, but basically he was saying that Prices are stagnant on international links, and usage is going up. By introducing a 3rd major connection, prices would be stimulated again, and fall.

Also, tasman two is a fibre pair, somehow, I don't think SXC is made up of two strands of fibre each way.

?

None of the links are single strands. That would be dumb.

They are all multiple bundles of strands running WDM (different coloured light on the same strand) to increase the number of data channels. This is how the upgrade the trancievers to increase bandwidth while leaving the cables untouched.

Exetel (my ISP) is about to impliment a P2P cache......its some uber device they got to cut down on the international backhaul for P2P traffic.

Also from commsday.

Telstra expects an upgrade and expansion of its Hybrid Fibre Coaxial network would cost possibly less than the $4.1 billion spend it has proposed for a major city fibre-to-the-node deployment.

Telstra CEO Sol Trujillo confirmed yesterday that developing the HFC network as an FTTN alternative has been given considerable thought. The company is trialling a DOCSIS 3.0 HFC upgrade in Melbourne and Sydney ahead of a possible deployment to existing lines and potential expansion of the network beyond its current reach.

and

Telstra CTO Hugh Bradlow said the DOCSIS 3.0 channel bonding trials are delivering 75Mbps in Sydney and 100Mbps in Melbourne. He said the upgrade could increase transmission to up to 250Mbps. “We’re working on a range of technology platforms that will allow us to scale into that future world. We’ve got copper solutions, cable solutions and fibre solutions,” Bradlow said.

Seems like a smart play. They don't have to share their HFC network and it also increases availability of foxtel.

last edited by ara at 15:10:34 15/Nov/07

Pacrim West was a twin pair 560Mb/s optical submarine telecommunications cable which served as Australia's main link to the world along with its partner cables Tasman2 (Connecting Australia to New Zealand) and Pacrim East (Connecting New Zealand to Hawaii).

Yeah, they layed two of the submarine cables. Each would have more then 1 strand in them.

If you have evidence to the contrary please post it, else please be careful of what you claim on a topic like this.

What the f*** is that, some type of ISP-rep threat on QGL?

They don't count quota at present.

http://www.iinet.net.au/support/broadband/faq/quotas.html#quotas_explained_2

What is counted towards my monthly quota?
Unlike some other broadband providers, we don't count uploads in your quota - they're free. Only downloads are counted towards your peak or off peak usage (quota).

though i think they will as soon as outgoing data at peak times exceeds incoming data and therefore forces them to upgrade the conjested link or links. node has also hinted at this.

TicMan...

no its to prevent unnecessary heart attacks to people who signed up to a new iinet plan a couple of weeks ago...

Well there you go.

From iinet's nakid DSL FAQ

What is counted towards my monthly quota?
On Naked DSL uploads and downloads are counted towards your peak/off peak usage (quota). To compensate for this we've effectively increased the quota allocations on Naked DSL.

From iinet's nakid DSL FAQ

Yep I was referring to those plans.

Though knowing iiNet's behaviour over the last year or two with downgrading plans and quota, it wouldn't be unexpected if they started to apply the policy to all plans in the near future :/

its the price we have to pay eXemplar for having so much personal space, typo told me so

Nice misunderstanding. It comes down to the fact that’s there will take vastly longer to return the investment in infrastructure in Australia than most other places. i.e. if someone spends eleventy billion dollars building a phat cable from here to the US, they could make less return than if they just left it in a bank.

Our broadband will improve, but it’s going to happen in dribs and drabs and it’s always going to happen after it’s been proven to be successful and cheap to maintain in other countries.

Its the price we have to pay for having 3 (2 really) connections to the rest of the world. If someone builds another (Pipe & Telstra expansion) then we may see prices fall due to competition.

That’s caused by a lack of ROI. If companies thought that they could viably make s*** loads of money quickly by dropping their own cable, they would.