If, for some unfathomable reason, you have cross-graded to Windows Vista, and you're running an nVidia graphics card, you might want to check out these new drivers, which will give you the following:

Improved compatibility and performance for NVIDIA SLI technology on DirectX 9, DirectX 10, and OpenGL applications.
Improved compatibility for The Way It's Meant To Be Played game titles: BioShock, Crysis, Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, Hellgate: London, and World in Conflict.

I am still are recommending Windows XP though. Why should you be beta testing Microsoft's new operating system?

Been running Vista with an nVidia card for several months without a problem. Also run it on my work laptop with an Intel chipset and my home laptop with an ATI chipset without issue.

Less hate and more love for Vista please.

how about you just shutup and report the news trog.
leave your opionions back at the RE pisstrough where they belong.

ooh someone had an extra bowl of bitch for brekkie

I am still are using Windows XP.

XP version of said files is here (nvidia link)

http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/8489/xpcatgk3.jpg

haha, all you bitter suckers that "upgraded" for pretty 3d desktops

how about you just shutup and report the news trog.

If I actually thought there was any ever danger of anyone EVER actually taking my advice, I would!

last edited by trog at 13:53:23 19/Sep/07

I like how you said "cross-graded" hehe

lol at trillion

So's your face trog

haha, now we know why StreX was going to spend like a billion dollars on a new PC!

I'm sure they'll work it out for SP1 or 2

You'd hope so, but knowing MS it ain't going to happen.

Where is this 20% hit you talk about?

I'm sure they'll work it out for SP1 or 2, but wont be upgrading my home pc's until then.

why would they when there are people like strex to spend a billion dollars for a new pc to run it.

"bias" implies that I'm not making an objective assessment of the situation. I don't think its a particularly big stretch for me to say "Windows XP is better for gamers than Windows Vista" at the moment, given all the reported driver problems people have had, the DRM concerns, the performance hit you get just for running the thing, the jokes Apple make at its expense, and so on.

I'm sure some people have had no problems with Vista (like Ticman) but far and away most of the stories I've read have not been complimentary towards Vista. Plus most people just don't see the need to upgrade. In all seriousness (and I can't believe I'm about to say this) most of the people I know that have bought new computers (primarily laptops, but still) in the last 3-6 months have bought Apple systems - now your life is on the web, there's so much less need to tie yourself to Windows (obviously, unless you're a gamer, but you could still buy a Mac and dual boot Windows).

Also, lots of OEMs are still selling XP because customers still want it over Vista! There's a lot of skepticism out there about Microsoft's reporting of Vista sales.

So anyway, more power to you if you have Vista working happily, but my recommendation still stands - until Microsoft figure out a way to force you to upgrade by dropping a dump truck full of money on the next killer PC game you want, stick with XP.

I'm sure some people have had no problems with Vista (like Ticman)

I am above the law though.

You probably don't even know what you're doing. What do you do in Windows anyway, probably just run notepad.exe?

When it comes to daily internet browsing and just general office work I preferred using vista but I'm still using XP for gaming cos it just works and vista just doesn't.

can we have a poll on what OS everyone uses?

LMFAO @ trillion's post :)

You probably don't even know what you're doing. What do you do in Windows anyway, probably just run notepad.exe?

Pffft yarite - everyone knows woardpad is where it's at.

awww, no link for the 64bit Vista version of the drivers?

We should start some sort of bandanna wearing, xp loving, sony haters club trog.

p.s. xp4lyfe

*Sigh*

Just reminds me of when XP came out and all you suckers were clinging to your beloved Windows 2000.

Give it time.. all shall emerge and bath in the light of vista.

As for me... I am waiting to upgrade due to both Service Pack 1 and No Moneysz.

Stupid expensive cars.

i f***ing hate it how they are starting to make games that the system requirements are vista :(

bloody Microsoft and their monopoly !

Most people didn't upgrade from 98 to 2k for a couple of years after it was out, cos of driver support etc. Most people didn't upgrade to xp from 2000 for a long time because it didn't offer a lot of extra functionality. I dunno how many people will upgrade to vista, it'll just keep coming with new machines regardless though.

If I was comparing them, I'd say every upgrade since 98 has been less of an upgrade. IE if 98 to 2000 scored a 4 on the worthwhile meter, 2k to XP would have scored 2, and XP to vista a 1.

It'll be interesting to see if the next windows OS version continues the trend, or if it will introduce something more.

vista turns the "pretties" off when you launch an application.
Runs everything fine on any half decent pc with max detail.

Buy a new pc and stop living pre-revolution era by foraging for food and sharpening pebbles to kill steggosaurus' for your meat.

f***in-A Loki.. f***in-A.

But man don't you remember pre-revolutionary war PCs they were the bomb.

Remember when Bill the Man said "Everyone can run on 640k!"

See Bill was right everyone could run on 640k.

But as for new PC. The plan is...

Case Thermatake Armor Case
Power Thermaltake ToughPower 850W
CPU Fan Thermaltake Typhoon VX
CPU Intel Quad Core (Conroe) 6600
Motherboard ASUS Striker Motherboard
RAM 2G-Kit 800 (2x1G) OCZ-System-Elite x 2
HARD DRIVE Seagate Barricuda SATA 750G x 2 (Eventually another 750 gig x2 unless newer interesting drives come out.)
GFX 640M 8800 GTS Leadtek x 1 (eventually x2 pending on what new stuff comes out.)
DVD BURNER ASUS 18x SATA 1814BLT Lightscribe Retail D.L DVD RW

Ideas? Im fresh out. Already got LCD monitor and sound card I won't give a s*** about until Creative gets all their crap sorted and the mobo comes with sound card anyway so whats the use until Q1 or Q3 08

And as for "the pretties" in Windows Vista. Who needs them there in the first place. Debian or whatever that Linux build was had the 'cube' environment which beats the whole Vista Aeroglass theme down the flusher.

I won't bring Mac into the arguement. But Bootcamp / VM Ware Fusion from what I've seen a pretty bad ass for running the likes of Command and Conquer 3 and Unreal Tournament 2007. I know the whole MAC doesn't have parts support but when it comes back to OSX / OS ... Bootcamp does have the simpilistic edge for every day peoples. Not to say Im every day but the number of people who've bought the power book (or whatever build of the MAC computer laptop blargh they had) who also own other PC computers I've talked to say that the MAC was running Vista under bootcamp and beating the load times and the living crap out of it.

I am sorry not to sound like the penguin (linux) fanboy or anything but I don't see Windows Fiesta doing this without some sort of trouble

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3EBeaCrhn8

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC5uEe5OzNQ

Im sorry but 320 meg for Vista Aero vs 160 meg for Ubuntu Beryl en quote from the youtube 2nd sounds a hell of a lot better for the whole graphical VGUI.;)

Will also be interesting to see when they get the whole VM Ware system worked out just as a bootloader (I think the term is "hypervisor" -- where VM is just the main thing in the background and theres no operating system that VM needs to run on.

So instead of loading:

Hardware -> Operating System -> VM Ware -> Virtual OS
Its just:
Hardware -> VM Ware -> Virtual OS

If they can get stock standard and rock solid would be freaking awesome.

last edited by Kimbo at 17:30:34 20/Sep/07

last edited by Kimbo at 17:32:29 20/Sep/07

Beryl sure is pretty, it's a pity Linux is a s*** desktop OS.

Now where's my DRM infected, bloated, resource hungry bucket of Vista that can play games.

And as for "the pretties" in Windows Vista. Who needs them there in the first place. Debian or whatever that Linux build was had the 'cube' environment which beats the whole Vista Aeroglass theme down the flusher.

And if Vista was released looking like a cube, you'd complain that it looks s*** and that Microsoft need to get with the times, add some sparkles.
I've heard all these complaints before. When Mac was doing cool pop up effects with their dock, people were paying out windows because all it did was scroll or fade menus.
Now we've got blurs, opacity, 3D effects...ON NOES it uses the RAM!

As stated before, with each release you boycott the new OS, cause it is different from what your used too, or it uses more system resources.
Well guess what? Crysis uses more resources then farcry, yet many of you are buying new computers just so you can play it, why not a new OS?
Technology moves on, do you expect to run vista on a PIII? They same haters will boycott the next windows and swear they'll never switch from vista.

last edited by Lynx at 17:49:39 20/Sep/07

Nah lynx ... its because vista doesn't actually offer any additional functionality, at this stage, but does offer a downgrade in performance.

The flaw in your Mac comparison is that Apple manage to pull all that off on technically slower hardware with less RAM and without making it lag. Even on decent, modern day PC's Vista will lag.

Technically slower hardware? PowerPC was king until x64 arrived.

Mac OSX isn't as flashy as Vista, so naturally it'll run on less ram/cpu/gpu. Plus Apple's OS was designed to work on Apple's PCs which have set hardware. They knew what they were coding for so it runs fine on their PCs. For example, you probably wouldn't get Tiger running fine on a G3.
Microsoft don't have set hardware, that's why they have the Vista Capable and Premium Ready system in place. I'm sure if you built a PC with all premium ready hardware it would run lag free. You can't claim that you didn't know Vista would run poorly on an outdated system. The minimum requirements are available on their site and they even released a download-able tool to evaluate your PC and point out areas that need upgrading.

DirectX10 was not a tool for Microsoft to monopolize and bind gamers to Vista. There aren't any games that require DX10, so you aren't forced to use Vista.
DX10 is one of many of the additional features that your claiming vista doesn't have. I hear you want more additional features available in Vista so there is a solid reason to upgrade, yet when these features are implemented, it is Microsoft monopolizing by forcing you to upgrade.

As for bugs, Microsoft is working hard squashing whatever they can. They had the betas available to the public and they'll have a service pack out within a year of launch (and they're promising performance improvements). Driver and program issues are a problem the developers need to sort out, the blame shouldn't fall squarely on Microsoft, it is after all a new OS.
Plenty of people on this forums have stood up and said that their copy's of Vista are running smooth and bug free, so these claims of a broken OS sound exaggerated to me.

3-6 months have bought Apple systems - now your life is on the web, there's so much less need to tie yourself to Windows (obviously, unless you're a gamer, but you could still buy a Mac and dual boot Windows).

yeah i got my Mac about 4 months ago and i must say i am very impressed, when i want to play games i boot into windows Xp unless im playing warcraft 3 which work under os x.

but honestly i try to avoid using windows as much as i can. still i have to admit Apple need to have a wider range of supported hardware.

DirectX10 was not a tool for Microsoft to monopolize and bind gamers to Vista. There aren't any games that require DX10, so you aren't forced to use Vista.
DX10 is one of many of the additional features that your claiming vista doesn't have. I hear you want more additional features available in Vista so there is a solid reason to upgrade, yet when these features are implemented, it is Microsoft monopolizing by forcing you to upgrade.

Then why aren't they releasing dx10 for xp ? there is no technical reason not to. And like you say no dx10 games yet really, so its not anything to anyone ... yet

As for bugs, Microsoft is working hard squashing whatever they can. They had the betas available to the public and they'll have a service pack out within a year of launch (and they're promising performance improvements). Driver and program issues are a problem the developers need to sort out, the blame shouldn't fall squarely on Microsoft, it is after all a new OS.
Plenty of people on this forums have stood up and said that their copy's of Vista are running smooth and bug free, so these claims of a broken OS sound exaggerated to me.

Why then does it say for instance on the nvidia site that you have to download 4 hot fixes above and beyond the windows update, to fix issues with Vista. That too me suggests Microsoft has some case to answer.

The default user experience for installing a simple app can involve clicking allow or yes to an OS prompt 5 or 6 times.

But lynx since your such a Vista lover...
How do you make an Administrator account really an Administrator ? (ie. why do I have to run IE as an administrator, even tho my account is part of administrators, to run some things eg. the Gigabyte Download center ?)

Why oh Why does the Vista "test performance" with the vga driver while installing instead of waiting until its all setup properly. "But you can run it seperately later ... then why isn't it part of the Vista Welcome Center?


... surely there must be a webpage soemwhere to degay Vista

... Where did tool -> folder options go in Explorer

The list of annoyances that serve no useful purpose (like changing where profiles are) is longer then the benefits ie. dx10 which at the moment serves no useful purpose.

Tools -> Folder options still exists and I'm running as an Administrator without any problems (disabled UAC though).

Forget the striker... why get a mobo with a previous gen chipset?

Get something P35 based or if you aren't planning on getting it for a few weeks hold out for the X38 or X48 chipset mainboards depending on your budget.

The Blitz Formula (ddr2) or Blitz Extreme (ddr3) are the current flagship boards from Asus that are in the ROG (republic of gamers) series which the striker is a member of too, just last generation.

"disabled UAC though"

Maybe that's the first key to ungaying Vista ? turn off all of vista's "features" one by one so it becomes XP with DRM, DX10 and more overhead ?

All I know is after 3 hours of the default vista home premium experience, I'd prefer even a Gnome desktop to vista (and I don't like Linux for a desktop).
Are you sure ? yes, some one wants to ...? allow , this program wants to ? yes, someone wants to ... ? allow ... you need to be an administrator to do that! run as administrator... because being in the administrators group is not enough .............. OS RAGE!

LOL! While all well and good, the fact is, even with a good pc that pc will be 20% BETTER with Xp. Gg.

you mean 25% better.

decrease by 20% eg. 100 -> 80.

increase by 25% eg. 80 -> 100.

so, XP is even more betterererer now.

I'm not a Vista lover, I'm merely defending it from hyped up bandwagon clowns.
Here's a good one

Then why aren't they releasing dx10 for xp ? there is no technical reason not to.

You obviously haven't read into the reasons why XP can't run DirectX 10 (without Massive changes to the Windows API), do a Google search and enlighten yourself.
Here's a link for the lazy, that will explain why DX10 won't port to XP.
And hey, in the mean time Microsoft can port all of Vista's new features to XP, then they'll never earn a profit ever again!
What a successful business that would be.

Here's an extract from the Wikipedia

On March 24, 2001, Apple released Mac OS X v10.0 (internally codenamed Cheetah). The initial version was slow, not feature complete, and had very few applications available at the time of its launch, mostly from independent developers. Many critics suggested that while the OS was not ready for mainstream adoption, they recognised the importance of its initial launch as a base on which to improve.

Now look where it is, a beacon of what a OS should be. Sounds a lot like Vista, give it time and just like XP all kinks will be ironed out. The UAC was toned down drastically from the early beta levels and SP1 promises to tone things down further.
If you bought Vista because it was *new*, and feel as though you have been stung, it's your own look out. There are plenty of reviews, demonstrations and forums debates (like this) of Vista on the net. You bought it, you agreed with it.

To keep things fair: I don't own a copy. I'm not boycotting it, I just don't feel as though its additional features are worth the upgrade, yet. But most importantly I have not been forced by the angry fist of Microsoft to purchase Vista. It is my choice when or even if I buy it.
And I am planning on buying it. Why? because of the additional features.

You obviously haven't read into the reasons why XP can't run DirectX 10 (without Massive changes to the Windows API), do a Google search and enlighten yourself.
Here's a link for the lazy, that will explain why DX10 won't port to XP.

It almost doesn't matter - there's too many people running XP that have proven they're not yet prepared to update to Vista to make games developers want to make the switch exclusively to DX10. Unless MS dump a f***ton of money at their feet to do it and make up for the lost sales I can't see it happening.

Eventually there'll be enough people to make it worthwhile, sure. MS just have to stop selling XP and force their OEMs to only sell Vista and soon enough you won't have a choice (FWIW, I fully support MS's right to do this).

I dunno what you peens are on about, my install of Vista doesn't "lag"... my only real complaint is the slower file transfers compared to XP (which is supposedly being addressed in SP1).

Other than that I have not had a problem with Vista as a gaming OS at all.


A lot of you would be suprised at how many perfomance whinging problems are really user error. Either software config issues or spyware/virus infections. You get to see this first hand after working at a Computer store.

last edited by rubba-chikin at 14:11:20 21/Sep/07

it was a while back when vista was newer but a mate & i had 2 identical machines with brand new installs of vista ultimate & xp-pro with the most up-to-date video drivers at the time. we tested quake, q3a, doom3 & quake4 using timedemos & the vista machine was uniformly slower in performance compared to the xp-pro machine in all timedemos by about 20%. we also ran around in oblivion with all the details on & showfps enabled & once again the vista machine was the slower. there was f***all chance of those tests being 'user error' :P

maybe with patchs n newer drivers this performance loss has improved with vista... you rarely get a chance to do such quantative tests with identical hware & new installs.

personally i dont give a rats :P product 'a' always seems better than product 'b' if you payed for product 'a'. i'll change over to vista in the same way i have moved thru all microsoft os's... when i gotta n someone gives it to me :D

Lynx ... the only reason dx10 will never come to XP is because MS don't want to waste a heap of money redesigning an old product for new technologies, particularly when doing so would reduce the revenue of their new product.

You sure are a weird one. You don't own it, yet eagerly defend it.

Install it and use it for even a few hours and see if you still think the product is an "upgrade" in end user experience. It's full of annoyances and pointless changes (user profile directory structures for example).


ps. paid for both xp and vista ... I only got vista so that I can prepare for the fact that I will one day probably have to try and create an SOE using it ...

ps. paid for both xp and vista ... I only got vista so that I can prepare for the fact that I will one day probably have to try and create an SOE using it ...

I choose to read that as "its a tax deduction"

Halo2 PC was advertising for Vista's DX10, it has been available on Xbox for ages.
+ it was a s*** heap

I think we are on the same page now trog. There aren't any (good) DX10 only games yet so people shouldn't feel pressured, and even then it's only a game. Alan Wake might be the first?

Demon the 20% drop has been (or is about to be?) addressed by Microsoft, it was due to a Memory management error/limitation. Tests have shown that with the patch applied the performance drop with Vista is now only about 1-2%, or a couple of frames per second.

edit: Exactly Obes. I'm defending it because it is being unfairly targeted for perfectly normal business practices. Who would pay for the development time if DX10 was ported to XP for free? The sale of Vista pays for it.

I don't defend everything though, DRM was a bad idea IMO. All it has done is reset the skill level required to pirate. It'll only be a few years before John Citizen knows how to pirate on Vista.

last edited by Lynx at 15:51:40 21/Sep/07

I choose to read that as "its a tax deduction"

I don't play dodgy games with my tax's. The ATO is weird with computers. I just take the receipts to the accountant and answer their questions honestly.

If you're buying it on the grounds that you need to make an SOE build for work purposes, I can't imagine why it wouldn't be a 100% valid deduction

I am unsure as to whether or not its a depreciation or a deduction. I do expect it will be some form of work expense.

All it has done is reset the skill level required to pirate. It'll only be a few years before John Citizen knows how to pirate on Vista.

I'm still waiting for the anti piracy crackdown vis-à-vis Vista. From what I've read the capability is in place, but it doesn't seem to be switched on yet (at least, any horror stories on the subject have yet to appear.)

Big deal, so Microsoft is enticing the market to switch to Dx10 by releasing a few Dx10 only games.
THEY'RE MONOPOLIZING!

It's just a game, get over it.

Trog you dont remember when XP was first released? The incompatabilities and crashes? Vista is maturing, give it a go and keep your bias uninformed opinions to yourself

you sure showed me with your random anecdotal tale of success

Ever since these new drivers I can't alt-tab TF2.
If I do when i go back its a black screen (not crashed).

Never had issues until drivers Sigh.

^ It's probably your retarded attempt at wit.

actually, yeah thats it.

Oh please, it wasn't even remotely close to a personal insult at all.

I don't recall calling YOU anything, just the content of the post.

If you find that insulting, I recommend a man-sized sheet of bubblewrap.

Less Than 2 Percent of UK Companies Have Upgraded Windows [to vista]

I tell you what is fun, trying to install XP for someone on a brand new notebook that ships with Vista preloaded and has ABSOLUTELY NO XP drivers available on the manufacturers website.

Increasingly annoying is the fact the HDD also sits behind ICH7 or 8 and requires the controller drivers before XP will go on. Notebooks and FDDs... I don't think so!

So first you have to start by slipstreaming in the controller drivers, then begins that asstastic task of trying to scrounge drivers from similarly specced notebooks from other vendors.


In the end I did succeed but I'll be glad if I never ever have to go through that painful mission again.

Vista is maturing, give it a go

Would you give the same advice about your 14 year old sister/daughter?

Trog you dont remember when XP was first released? The incompatabilities and crashes? Vista is maturing, give it a go and keep your bias uninformed opinions to yourself

I'm not trog, but I've given Vista "a go" several times and don't see any point adopting early.

I bought a Dell laptop 2 months ago that had only Vista (and not XP) as the installed OS. I took the laptop fresh out of the box, turned it on and Vista froze straight up before I was even able to enter the desktop. If this happened to a newbie Linux user they'd go on blogging about how immature Linux is and how it's not ready for the desktop.

Later on I tried to copy a handful of small files from DVD to the hdd. They were about 10MB in total but for some reason it took 10-20 seconds in Vista. Turns out this is a known Vista slow-file-copy bug and there are fixes out.

Then I hear about slow network throughput, problems mirroring video on two display adapters, several standby/hibernation problems, immature graphics driver support. The list just goes on and on.

So instead of having to run around searching for fixes to make Vista do the same things that XP already does well, I just formatted and put XP on.

Problem solved. So keep your "omg shiny, must install!" comments to yourself.


last edited by parabol at 17:02:56 23/Sep/07

I've got Vista Business for free through Uni (woot... sorta) and while its a nice os to have a play with, its still buggy, messy and doesn't like all but the latest hardware.

For the third time i recently installed vista only to have it freeze halfway through installing my X-Fi Vista ready sound drivers! And it'll work then maybe 20 minutes in, it'll simply lock up. The mouse will work but nothing responds. The only actual working thing is the cursor WTF...

Until SP1 is released it's just gonna sit on my HDD gathering dust.

last edited by 3dee at 17:38:42 23/Sep/07

I bought a Dell laptop 2 months ago that had only Vista (and not XP) as the installed OS. I took the laptop fresh out of the box, turned it on and Vista froze straight up

That happened with a laptop I bought a few years back with XP.. it was the ducks nuts at the time (over $7k) and all the guys at work were eager to see how it went since it was one of the first "laptop-come-desktop" beasties. Then it blue screened and everyone laughed :(

its still buggy, messy and doesn't like all but the latest hardware.

I have it on 3 of my own machines, the IT team at work have it and it runs without a problem. Sure the first few months after release sucked but these days Vista is a happy camper.

(Hardware is a Dell Inspiron 6400, Dell Lattitude D620 and my homegrown dual core machine).

Hmm well I'm in Vista now. I've had it freeze once today. During Nero installation grrr.

Its currently installing 26 updates. I've still got X-Fi drivers and VIA hyperion drivers to install. Hopefully it'll stop freezing once everythings updated/installed.

A lot of people are experiencing this hanging after 20-30 mins in Vista. It likes to do it during installs.... Once during sound card installation and once during Nero installation..


Then I've just gotta turn off all the s*** I don't need running...


Why is it taking ten minutes to connect to the MSN download website?

last edited by 3dee at 20:30:09 24/Sep/07

X-Fi Vista ready sound drivers

Since when where Creative able to write a decent set of drivers?

They can't. They just don't know it yet..

YAY IT FROZE AGAIN!!11 After about 10 minutes...

I was using msn, attempting to install VIA hyperions and had IE open.. WTF WHY DOES IT KEEP HANGING LIKE THIS.


THE MOUSE EVEN WORKS DURING "HANGS"

Ever since these new drivers I can't alt-tab TF2.
If I do when i go back its a black screen (not crashed).

Never had issues until drivers Sigh.

It's probably a TF2 bug - I have the same problem using XP. My NVidia drivers are a couple of months old.

The number of version is crazy ..

Windows Vista Starter
Windows Vista Home Basic
Windows Vista Home Premium
Windows Vista Business
Windows Vista Enterprise
Windows Vista Ultimate

32 and 64 bit
with a number of licencing models ... OEM, Upgrade, Retail, VLK, MSDN, Academic

And don't try using your vlk key with a retail disc, it just won't work.

It seriously needs 1 set of discs.
And a key that unlocks the features you pay for.

lolvista