seriously

Notable quotes:

"it was Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution that fueled Hitler’s ovens."

“The time has come,” Dr. Kennedy said, “to recognize that evolution is a bad idea and should be, frankly, discarded into the dustbin of history.”

is there anything special about that site, or is it just another religious website?

Nope, it's just another religious website. It's just more depressing than the usual ones as they frantically flail and thrash around.

I guess it's special in the sense that it's making even more retarded claims than usual

Fundies Say the Darndest Things!

They should just shut up and throw in the towel already, I mean, the pope pretty much did.

Topic: Darwin Responsible for Hitler

As I understand it, Hitlers ideals where strongly influenced by Henry Ford. No s***. Henry Ford was paying to push some tripe he wrote called "The International Jew" around the world by paying for all of its publishing ect.

Here is a quote from good ol Adolfe himself:

"He (International Jew) already sees the present-day European states as will-less tools in his fist, whether indirectly through a so-called Western democracy, or in the form of direct domination by Jewish Bolshevism. But it is not only the Old World that he holds thus enmeshed, the same fate menaces the New. It is Jews who govern the stock exchange forces of the American Union. Every year makes them more and more the controlling masters of the producers in a nation of one hundred and twenty millions; only a single great man, Ford, to their fury, still maintains full independence." (Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, p. 639). ,

Henry based his book on another publication called "Protocals of the Elders of Zion" Unfortunately for so many who died during WWII, that publication Henry took so seriously was later debunked. It turns out the work of fiction was itself based on a play from much earlier times.

Having said all this, I'll now go and read what these guys have to say.


last edited by E.T. at 19:49:57 27/Aug/07

last edited by E.T. at 19:50:22 27/Aug/07

s***, I could believe that Hitler was fueled by the work of Darwin, im not even sure that its hard to believe. That doesnt change the fact that all Darwin did was interpret what nature does on its own... Human Nature drove hitler to interpret the aryan 'race' as being the greatest set of traits and then exterminate the rest. I dont understand how that poorly reflects on Darwin's theory. God created man and in his infinite wisdom he soiled us with the natural urge to 'sin' as some kind of fruity test. I doubt most kids at school have read Darwin's work but that doesnt stop them from picking on fat kids and gingers :P

EDITS EDITS EDITS EDITS EDITS EDITS EDITS EDITS EDITS EDITS EDITS EDITS:
If anything, I think that a proper understanding of Darwin's work (and modern genetics helps explain the underlying process) provides a greater level of unification between races. If Hitler really knew what actually caused the differences between races and what those differences were, there would have been no need to kill people. The idea of creationism promotes biggotry more IMO. It allows the concept that lesser races exist rather than the idea that tiny mutations in lines of code brough about differences between humans and that the common-ness of those traits is based on whether the environment supported them. Having an almighty power create a bunch of 'lesser' beings is one huge excuse to s*** all over them.

last edited by qmass at 20:14:51 27/Aug/07

I could believe that Hitler was fueled by the work of Darwin, im not even sure that its hard to believe.

Herbert Spencer suggested the "Survival of the fittest" model of evolution, so he's more to blame than Charles Darwin. Darwin just believed that any useful trait could be passed down to future generations.

well neither of the guys invented evolution, they just described it. so if anyone is to blame, its god.

i blame god's god for inventing god. anyways.. hitler was a catholic. don't all christians, deep down, wanna slaughter jews. i think they might!

With "professional opinions" from scum such as Ann Coulter. Really, that woman is seriously evil. In fact, of current politicians if I had to liken any to Adolf himself, she would be the closest with the way she wants persecution put into law. Believe me, she's wayyyyy more conservative than a puppet like Bush on these kinds of things.

Hitler was a staunch Catholic. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is plain wrong, and probably has a political agenda for trying to convince you otherwise.

The sooner nonsecular religious people are executed for crimes against humanity and chuchgoing ones placed in asylums on the grounds of clinical insanity, the better for humanity.

if the Nazi's had won the war, Hitler would be regarded as a hero. It's not too far fetched of fanciful to imagine that if they won, we wouldn't have anywhere near the amount of problems in the middle east, nor the amount of Islamic terrorism.

thought of the day.

Ann Coulter is on the case!

What qmass said.

The argument is rubbish.

Someone used a knowledge of evolution to propogate their horrible war. Therefore evolution is false and should be "thrown in the dustbin of history"

Same could be said for the religious alternative they are preaching.

Withough Jesus and the bible, there would have been no Crusades, Inquisition or witch trials. Therefore, christianity is false and should be "thrown in the dustbin of history"

It's less likely to be Darwin's theory, and more likely to be evolution itself that gave Hitler prejudice.

Hitler would have been a pretty cool dude... you know.. if it wasn't for the whole genocide thing.

everyone has their flaws billy. If we can look past KRudd's softspot for strippers, surely 'dolf deservers a chance :P

and yet what of tran

As usual, talkorigins.org has this issue covered.



1. Hitler based his ideas not on Darwinism but on a "divine right" philosophy:

Thus, it [the folkish philosophy] by no means believes in an equality of races, but along with their difference it recognizes their higher or lesser value and feels itself obligated, through this knowledge, to promote the victory of the better and stronger, and demand the subordination of the inferior and weaker in accordance with the eternal will that dominates this universe. (Hitler 1943, 383)

The first edition of Mein Kampf suggests that Hitler may once have believed in a young earth: "this planet will, as it did thousands of years ago, move through the ether devoid of men" (p. 65; the second edition substitutes "millions" for "thousands," and chapter 11 refers to "hundreds of thousands of years" of life in another context.) Other passages further support his creationist leanings:

The undermining of the existence of human culture by the destruction of its bearer seems in the eyes of a folkish philosophy the most execrable crime. Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent Creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise. (Hitler 1943, 383)

and

What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and reproduction of our race and our people, . . . so that our people may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the creator of the universe. (Hitler 1943, 214)

Quotes from Hitler invoking Christianity as a basis for his actions could be multiplied ad nauseam. For example:

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord (Hitler 1943, 65).

"[T]he task of preserving and advancing the highest humanity, given to this earth by the benevolence of the Almighty, seems a truly high mission (Hitler 1943, 398).

A campaign against the "godless movement" and an appeal for Catholic support were launched Wednesday by Chancellor Adolf Hitler's forces (Associated Press 1933).

Of course, this does not mean that Hitler's ideas were based on creationism any more than they were based on evolution. Hitler's ideas were a perversion of both religion and biology.

2. Genocide and racism existed long before Darwin. Obviously, they did not need any contribution from Darwinism. In many instances, such as the Crusades and the Spanish conquest of Central America, religion was explicitly invoked to justify them.

3. Evolution does not promote social Darwinism or racism or eugenics.

References:

1. Hitler, A. 1943. Mein Kampf. Transl. R. Manheim. Boston: Houghton Mifflin. http://www.stormfront.org/books/mein_kampf/ or http://www.crusader.net/texts/mk/
2. Associated Press. 1933. Hitler aims blow at 'Godless' move, Lansing State Journal (Michigan), Feb. 23, 1933. Reprinted at http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/unknown/hitler.html

Go watch a movie called idiocracy, pretty silly movie but made me think :)

Darwin just believed that any useful trait could be passed down to future generations.

This is wrong... Darwin's theory was that an organisms traits are passed through a population by its ability to breed most prolifically, specifically that point. Natural selection is NOT survival of the fittest, it is survival of the most f***ingist - what is and is not fit is virtually impossible to predict. Its possible that some insane virus could wipe out everyone but those with a condition that leaves them immune to the virus but with huge dibilitating effects. Being the only people alive to breed would mean that they have been 'naturally selected' even though we would assume that they were not the 'fittest'. I remember another example which had to do with sickle cell protecting people from malarea? (I think) even though it would be considered a pretty 'unfit' trait. If hitler decided that a certain population was threatened by an inferior set of genes (in his mind) and wanted to make sure that they did not breed and pass them on, it makes sense that hitler might have taken that from Darwin's work. Which, like I said, has nothing to do with it being right or wrong. We are discussing whether hitler used Darwin's work, not who came up with the correct evolutionary process.

edit: From the almighty wikipedia:

While the British economist Herbert Spencer is often credited with introducing the phrase "survival of the fittest" in his 1851 work Social Statics (relating to free market economics) or his First Principles of a New system of Philosophy of 1862, he actually did not use the phrase until after reading Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species. and introduced it in his Principles of Biology of 1864, vol. 1, p. 444, writing "This survival of the fittest, which I have here sought to express in mechanical terms, is that which Mr. Darwin has called 'natural selection', or the preservation of favoured races in the struggle for life."

Although I still think you are a tool for posting about that, it has brought to my attention a fairly interesting comment which is quite pertitent to this discussion:

Many critics of evolution argue that "survival of the fittest" is a justification for violence and cruelty by premising human "rights" on the perceived quality of an individual by an arbitrary measure of "fitness". [citation needed] Evolution proponents often consider this to be an example of the naturalistic fallacy (or more specifically the is-ought problem), which states that prescriptive, moral statements cannot be derived from purely descriptive premises. [citation needed] On this view, while some have tried to use evolution as a justification for pseudoscientific ideas such as some forms of well known eugenics,[citation needed] these ideas are not actually supported by evolutionary theory.[citation needed]

This is also an example of the appeal to consequences fallacy--even if it were true that the concept of survival of the fittest is a justification for violence, this has no effect on the truth of the theory of evolution by natural selection.

Not backed up by academic sources, it is still a pretty interesting point.

last edited by qmass at 01:44:18 28/Aug/07

I reckon Mr and Mrs Hitler were responsible for Hitler.

Ok. Back on my Henry Ford influenced Hitler bandwagon (need more riders in it)

Here is a picture of Henry Ford receiving the Grand Cross of the German Eagle from Adolf Hitler's Third Reich, presented by Karl Kapp, German consul-general of Cleveland (left), and Fritz Hailer, German consul of Detroit (right).
Two of the first recipients of the Grand Cross of the German Eagle, right after Hitler created it, were the Italian dictator Benito Mussolini, and his son-in-law Count Ciano who was the Italian Foreign Minister.
http://users.bigpond.net.au/et/images/ford-nazi-medal.jpg

It is widely known that Henry Ford helped fund the creation of the Third Reich. This is described in detail in a book named "Who Financed Hitler" by James Pool.

Henry Ford started his campaign against Jews in 1920, just as Hitler was leaving the Army and beginning his public speaking.

IMO, the correlation to Darwin is a stretch without historical basis, unlike the argument for the influence Henry Ford had.

Hitler wasn't a Ford guy! His best friend was Ferdinand Porsche - the guy who designed the Volkswagon. Here's a picture of Porsche and Hitler enjoying a toy VW:



http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/classes/33d/33dWImages/HitlerPorscheVW1938.png

omfg Idol, humf. Question, Did any of your teachers in school top themselves? Just curious.

they rekn that at xactly 35mph the vw symbol on the hubcaps of vw's looks like a nazi swastika! ;p

http://dem0n.qgl.org/images/temp/frednaziz.jpg


poor ol' adolf... alls he wanted was a world without jews n now he is the posterboy for all that is evil. but american christian fundies linking his actions to the theory of evolution is just crazy fundy talk.

Es ist Zeit für Rache! Wir müssen die Juden ausrotten! ;]

What people don't seem to realize is that the Jews killed Jesus. Therefore while he may have had misguided reasons, Hitler was still on the right track.

omfg Idol, humf. Question, Did any of your teachers in school top themselves? Just curious.

I don't really understand your statement, but yes one of my primary school teachers did commit suicide.

the Jews killed Jesus.

OK apart from being a fictional character, Jesus himself was such a Jew that he was known to his mates as "King of the Jews".

For all i care, you're all jews.

Big nosed jews at that.

there was no jesus... only horace!



derail successful.

For all i care, you're all jews.

no matter how much or little you care, i'm not a jew. thx.

there was no jesus... only horace!

Well I was going to argue that both Jesus and Horus are based on personified observations of astronomy - but I think your video explains that already.

hitler hated jews and the power they had in germany before the war.
the only reason his anti-semitism would float is because most of the lower class germans (majority) were exploited, there was lots of poverty and the country was beeing bled dry after WW1 by outside interests (war = profit? not much has changed aye?). anyway, jews were an easy target to point the blame at, and as we all know racial segregation is one of mankinds most well estrablished skills. ontop of this, they did own alot of the buissness and financial crap, which would draw more blame.

another point to make is that jews fought along side germans in WW1, even in amercia, tabloids were rooting for germany, obviously because of the large jewish population there. it turned one day and america entered the war, and germany got its ass handed to it. some of the german population resented jews after this, because it was beleived they sold them out. this obviously added more tension preceeding the start of WW2.

all in all WW2 was a beautiful example of how f***ed up and out of control we really are, it was about racism, money and greed. it has nothing f***ing to do with charles darwin, infact you can draw parrallels on so many levels to every conflict to every f***ing notable person in history.

the first paragraph of that link is a cock sucking shrine to ann coulter. who's the closest thing to a nazi alive today. f***ing shoe faced bitch. using her as reference pretty much signifies your trying to sell your book to make a grab at the redneck midwest dollar, WHICH by the was cant really read in the first place.

this book is all about money and stupid people playing dot-to-dot with stupid irrelevent facts and even dumber people beleiving them.

epic thread

OK apart from being a fictional character, Jesus himself was such a Jew that he was known to his mates as "King of the Jews".

They still killed him...

But it's not a big deal since he was one of their own

last edited by Idol at 16:56:17 28/Aug/07

it's not a big deal? dude, he's the motherf***ing son of god!

^lies.

What lmnt said. /End thread

In fact it wasn't Darwin that inspired this. Same as saying it's a cars fault that someone killed another person.

Francis Galton would be the real one to blame. He was indeed Darwin's half-cousin, but don't mistake the two for best friends.

Check out his wiki page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Galton

and the wiki of Eugenics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

The modern field and term were first formulated by Sir Francis Galton in 1865

all in all WW2 was a beautiful example of how f***ed up and out of control we really are, it was about racism, money and greed.

Arguably "better" reason to go to war than "WMDs" though

This whole Darwin relationship stuff is giving me the s***s. Darwin wasn't around when so many others tried to take over the known world throughout history. As I said earlier, these tossers have no real basis for there claims. Their in the business of moving books. Fuk em, I aint buyin it.

To me this is like saying the person who discovered Hurricanes is responsible for Hurricane Katrina.

BURN THEM!

interesting reading about eugenics and how the us, russia, canada and even australia had compulsory sterilisation programs during the same period as hitler was doing his thing.