Well, thank you police officers from Dutton Park and West End [I wonder if you're watching my net actions? ].

The police turned up at around 7am this fine morning and bashed down my door. Unlucky for them I had no clothes on and they had a fine view!

The reason for searching our house [with a warrant] was suspicion of Cannabis and Amphetamines on premises.

Three out of six of us were at home still sleeping and two of those people [not me] have been charged with Cannabis and Smoking implement charges now.

There was eight cops with us at the time and they alluded to being tipped off.
What an awesome way to be woken.

Can anyone recommend free [or cheap] lawyers to help my friends out? I know there's a slim chance of them not getting convictions but we have no lawyer types knowledge at all.

Anyone else had madness run ins with raids?

Discuss and/or flame. Oh yeh, a dragon jumped out of my penis and burned they cops to death! The ninja's then saved me from teh evil Man.

Also, they seemed fairly interested in my computer and huge stack of DVD's and burnt disc's, any chance they'll come back for downloaded media?

don't smoke cannabis and take amphetamines... Drugs get you nowhere and have adverse affects on quality of life.. Now they'll probably get criminal convictions and are f***ed...

Sounds like you should be hanging out with a different crowd too...

I don't know about free/cheap lawyers. Good work with the dragon though, some cops f***ing deserve it...

the guys at dutton park rock

sucks to be you :P

I had them rock up on my door step once with a warrant. I knew what they wanted so just found it and gave it to them.

The person in question got off with no convict (no not me). But they didn't have a dodgey history!

My understanding is unless they have a data warrant they can't touch your computer etc. But I am not sure about seeing that stuff and then coming back later with the right warrant - which could be possible seeing as they were raiding a place expecting to get some major drug dealer with amps and canabs, so they might settle for nailing a software pirate instead.

Try legal aid at Uni.
But the more you pay the better it is, I would advise your friends to pay up big for a lawyer if they want to get the best chance possible of not getting a criminal record - but it all goes for naught if they try to talk their way outta it thus digging themselves deeper.

PS - the question is now, who tipped them off? It would have to be a decent tip because otherwise I could call up randomly and tip peoples houses I don't like to get RAIDed. They would have had some evidence and/or cased the joint. Thus meaning perhaps your roommates are up to stuff you don't know about - or do know about in which case you may also be f***ed. Roommates don't like their habbits perhaps?

last edited by Fireblood at 11:40:52 19/Jul/07

I know one person who was raided a couple of times. He ended up in jail for a year and his dad was actually a partner of a law firm... so he might have been in for longer had his dad been a "nobody".

Sounds like you should be hanging out with a different crowd too...

So true... if they get off with a fine or whatever and then keep doing teh same s***, they are truly deads***s and you should remove yourself from them as much as possible.

Also, they seemed fairly interested in my computer and huge stack of DVD's and burnt disc's, any chance they'll come back for downloaded media?

I don't know if anyone can tell you whether or not there is a chance that the cops will come back after your juarez, but they showed an interest and might refer it to someone else.

It would probably be a good idea for you to clean your system (and house!) of s*** you don't own.

Are any of your flatmates students? If so you can get free legal aid through legal people at your university (at least you used to be able to).

Probably too late now but best not to say anything until you have spoken to a legal representative. Anything you say can be blah blah blah. Trust me.

My unit was "raided" about 10-12 years ago by Dutton Park cops acting on a warrant. They claimed to also have been tipped off and were from the drug squad or some bulls***. I thought at the time they said they were from CIB but I may have been wrong. I never did find out how or why they targeted my place. I had just had a new flatmate move in after living there for ages by myself. I kept to myself and never had any problems. I had never been in trouble before. Well, not really. The girl that moved in had dreads and drove a combi van. I figured that someone took a disliking to the new "hippy" in the street or some such bulls***, and made a phone call. I have no idea how hard it is to get a warrant but I presume since I hadn't done anything overtly suspicious, it must've been pretty easy.

4 cops in my case. I was naive and answered all their questions truthfully. They found a bong but no pot. My flatmate also had a bong and a small amount of pot. The pot subsequently disappeared. Both had to front court, I got a $550 fine, the flatmate got all done up and batted her eyelids at the magistrate for a fine of about $230. Pays to have teh boobs.

The funny thing was, I was so clueless when they took me to the Dutton Park police station (and still in shock) that I went to get into the passenger seat of the unmarked cop car. "Nah mate, you get in the back," the D said. "Oh yeah" I thought "I'm being arrested. Makes sense".

Also we had experimenting with a new glass drill (typical stoner trying to make the perfect bong) and had about 20-30 failed attempts downstairs. Although I doubt at that time I could have been busted for an unused implement it still wouldn't have looked real good. Thankfully the cops never even bothered looking under the house. I think they were kinda bummed thinking they were gonna find a meth lab and coming up virtually empty handed. The fines would hardly have paid their wages for the morning.

The cops did come back, but only to serve the flatmate with papers to appear. They gave the usual bulls*** about "yeah we sometimes do random checks" but although I lived in a world of paranoia for a while it never happened.

As for your computer stuff who knows? I don't know what sort of laws are in place these days to protect you from them going through your hdd etc. Check with your new legal buddies.

Sorry to hear that happened it can be pretty scary and not at all a nice experience, especially for a bit of pot.

Oh and by the way, to any cops reading this, I don't do drugs anymore. You scared me straight. ;)

personally, id prefer the cops to be doing something more useful than busting the lowest of low level dealers and users

i guess it must be a slow week in police land

I dunno Spook, I am all for them busting people who break the law period.

PS - the question is now, who tipped them off? It would have to be a decent tip because otherwise I could call up randomly and tip peoples houses I don't like to get RAIDed. They would have had some evidence and/or cased the joint. Thus meaning perhaps your roommates are up to stuff you don't know about - or do know about in which case you may also be f***ed. Roommates don't like their habbits perhaps?

nope, an anonymous call to crimestoppers is more than enough.

yeah, i would say there is a high chance that they will pass on the info to the relevent people, whether it be another police department or some RIAA/MIAA/SIAA type group.

i guess you really need to ask yourself, why are you hanging out with these guys? you may have slipped through this time, but more then likely they will come back for a second bite. If it is for drugs again or for software/music/movie piracy who can tell.

cleaning house would be a good idea. destroying cd/dvds before dropping them in the bin would be a smart move too.

I dunno Spook, I am all for them busting people who break the law period.

i break the law, and dont much fancy going to jail.

sure im norty, but in the overal scheme of things, its a pretty low level norty (the lowest)

im not hurting anyone other than myself, and surely, thats punishment enough!

how much did the cops find? cause if it's small amounts for personal use (can't remember the exact quantities under qld law but i'm sure its on the net) it's pretty unlikely they'll get anything serious. it's happened to a few people i know and all they had to do was pay a fine and go to some 1 hour course on drug education or some s***.

My understanding is unless they have a data warrant they can't touch your computer etc..

They could have touched his computer there and then if they wanted to.. They don't need a warrant to raid a house if the situation warrants it. Eg, if your in the valley and the cops do a search on you and find drugs, they can then go to your house and search the house.. The reason for that is because getting a warrant takes time, and time in which the offender can use to destroy drugs etc.. So if the cops got good reason, they can do what they want almost.

So going back on the CD's, if they were labelled with movie names (things indicating piracy), I believe they could have acted on it because there is good evidence there... They are more interested in busting people with drugs than piracy as drugs are of higher seriousness category...

I'm not speaking from experience, I don't touch drugs, never will cause it's a disgusting and dangerous habbit, but I've been good friends with a couple cops.

last edited by Marty at 12:07:15 19/Jul/07

from http://aussielegal.aol.com.au/informationoutline.asp?nocache=1&SubTopicDetailsID=817

Persons charged with possession of small amounts of drugs usually must have their matters dealt with in the Magistrates Court. A person convicted for the first time for an offence of possession of a dangerous drug usually will not suffer the recording of a conviction against their name. However, it is most likely that a person convicted of a second offence will have a conviction recorded. Any person who is in this position should not contemplate self-representation if the maintenance of a conviction-free record is critical.

Possession of a small amount of marijuana is the most common charge that comes before courts. Usually these charges result in fines of between $300.00 and $1,000.00, unless the person has a significant criminal history.

and

Possessing Things - Bongs, Water Pipes etc.

A person must not have in their possession anything for use in connection with the administration, consumption or smoking of a dangerous drug. The most common reason that people are charged with this offence is that they are in possession of a bong, water pipe, or other instrument used for smoking marijuana. The police do not need to show that the thing was actually being used for a drug offence. They only need to show that its intended use was related to a drug offence. It is for this reason that people can be charged with possession of a bong, without actually being charged with possession of marijuana. However, it is more common for the person to be charged with both offences. In most cases, people who are convicted of this offence receive fines. The “thing” is forfeited to the Crown, and destroyed by police.

so basically unless your friends are dealers or have been convicted of drug charges before they'll be fine.

ps. they'll only be going to the magristrates court so you really don't need to fork out lots of money on a pro lawyer. all you need is a regular lawyer who deals with the magistrate court system all the time and is clued in as to which judges to avoid etc. legal aid is perfectly fine for this situation.

last edited by taggs at 12:05:06 19/Jul/07

What a bunch of drugf***ed deros. Suck s***, I hope some of you do some hard jail time. f***en drug scum.

don't smoke cannabis and take amphetamines

I don't and haven't for a long time.

Drugs get you nowhere and have adverse affects on quality of life.. Now they'll probably get criminal convictions and are f***ed...

Yeh, it seems that they are gonna have fun at court!

Good work with the dragon though, some cops f***ing deserve it...

Heh, ubiquitous dragon mentioning on QGL makes me popular!

We got raided a few years ago. Got woken at 7am by 2 female detectives and 2 male officers. Flatmate and I had to watch them search house.

Funny thing was, after about 5-10minutes they kinda realised we weren't drug dealers and they weren't going to find anything and started just chatting to us about my 300ZX and their job and how this was the 2nd raid for the day for them.

I had a computer open in lounge cause I was fixing it and had a big funny looking heatsink on table. They asked what it was, i started to explain, then gave up and just said "it keeps the computer cool". Seemed to satisify them.

Other funny part was when they found my box of guns.... toy guns. I collected them at some point and had like 30 of them. One of the chicks saw them and said "do you have kids here?" and i replied "nope, they are mine" with a big smile.

All in all they were pretty friendly and had nothing bad to say (except to warn my flatmate that the samurai sword next to his bed should not be taken outside).

They are not allowed to tell you who tipped them off to us selling drugs but they asked us if we had an idea who might. Said our crazy old neighbour who has complained about us non-stop for no reason and accused us of "using all the power" even though we are on different meters. Detectives didn't confirm it but you could tell it was her. Lucky for us she pissed off the real estate and moved out a month later.

Anyways, thats my drug raid story. I still ahve the search warrant on the wall in lounge as a good talking point.

the guys at dutton park rock

Yeh, i've had a few run-ins with em and they are pretty decent. West end cops seem to be a lot harder to deal with.

sucks to be you :P

*shrug* I didn't have anything bad against me so I don't mind; apart from the early wake-up call!

My understanding is unless they have a data warrant they can't touch your computer etc. But I am not sure about seeing that stuff and then coming back later with the right warrant - which could be possible seeing as they were raiding a place expecting to get some major drug dealer with amps and canabs, so they might settle for nailing a software pirate instead.

yeh, I had the same slight idea such as this, might be time to clean up =\

PS - the question is now, who tipped them off?

I'd love to know who :@

f*** the haters smoke weed everyday brother

Sounds like you should be hanging out with a different crowd too...

These are people who are my friends for life, they just need to snap out of occasionally using to relax and get straight.

Judge it as you may, but we're all a sort of support group and most people in it are not on drugs.

jesu it could be anyone that any of you have pissed off at some stage, neighbours, ex-friends, ex-girlfriends etc. seriously it only takes an anonymous call to crimestoppers.

edit: /cue drug moral debate derail in 5 posts

last edited by taggs at 12:14:17 19/Jul/07

Can anyone recommend free [or cheap] lawyers to help my friends out? I know there's a slim chance of them not getting convictions but we have no lawyer types knowledge at all.

Denny Crane

Are any of your flatmates students? If so you can get free legal aid through legal people at your university (at least you used to be able to).

No students here. =[

Probably too late now but best not to say anything until you have spoken to a legal representative. Anything you say can be blah blah blah. Trust me.

Yeh, we've had run-ins before and know how to talk to cops. I love 'No comment' =]
It seems that Legal Aid is gonna be best bet for my mates.

My unit was "raided" about 10-12 years ago by Dutton Park cops acting on a warrant. They claimed to also have been tipped off and were from the drug squad or some bulls***. I thought at the time they said they were from CIB but I may have been wrong. I never did find out how or why they targeted my place. I had just had a new flatmate move in after living there for ages by myself. I kept to myself and never had any problems. I had never been in trouble before. Well, not really. The girl that moved in had dreads and drove a combi van. I figured that someone took a disliking to the new "hippy" in the street or some such bulls***, and made a phone call. I have no idea how hard it is to get a warrant but I presume since I hadn't done anything overtly suspicious, it must've been pretty easy.

Actually these guys mentioned CIB as well...

I am guy that I guess could easily be profiled. I got some clothes on and was typing up my hair [I have shoulder-blade length natural dreadies and I haven't shaved in a week or so] and all the cops we getting sparkle eyes at the sight of me! lolz

4 cops in my case. I was naive and answered all their questions truthfully. They found a bong but no pot. My flatmate also had a bong and a small amount of pot. The pot subsequently disappeared. Both had to front court, I got a $550 fine, the flatmate got all done up and batted her eyelids at the magistrate for a fine of about $230. Pays to have teh boobs.

I always try to tell the truth and seem to get very little attention after I comply to questions easily. Apart from when I 'no comment' them that is.

The funny thing was, I was so clueless when they took me to the Dutton Park police station (and still in shock) that I went to get into the passenger seat of the unmarked cop car. "Nah mate, you get in the back," the D said. "Oh yeah" I thought "I'm being arrested. Makes sense".

LOL! I tried to get into a cop car's driver seat one nite while blind

Also we had experimenting with a new glass drill (typical stoner trying to make the perfect bong) and had about 20-30 failed attempts downstairs. Although I doubt at that time I could have been busted for an unused implement it still wouldn't have looked real good. Thankfully the cops never even bothered looking under the house. I think they were kinda bummed thinking they were gonna find a meth lab and coming up virtually empty handed. The fines would hardly have paid their wages for the morning.

The same thing I think in this case, they were looking for something quite bigger i suspect. Probly make like only $1500 of fines through this raid :rolleyes:

As for your computer stuff who knows? I don't know what sort of laws are in place these days to protect you from them going through your hdd etc. Check with your new legal buddies.

Google here I come.

Sorry to hear that happened it can be pretty scary and not at all a nice experience, especially for a bit of pot.

Thanks dude, it's a shame that they go hard out for a bit of pot.

Oh and by the way, to any cops reading this, I don't do drugs anymore. You scared me straight. ;)

We're all good citizens here!

nope, an anonymous call to crimestoppers is more than enough.

damn, really?

how much did the cops find? cause if it's small amounts for personal use (can't remember the exact quantities under qld law but i'm sure its on the net) it's pretty unlikely they'll get anything serious. it's happened to a few people i know and all they had to do was pay a fine and go to some 1 hour course on drug education or some s***.

Yeh, it was enough for them to probably get convictions easily.
I think these guys have had drug diversion before =\

Taggs, thanks for the information, very good.

What a bunch of drugf***ed deros. Suck s***, I hope some of you do some hard jail time. f***en drug scum.

Thanks for your input, but I think the scope of the situation is lost as you don't know every single fact here. I guess this is what the legal system is about

Glad I don't live that life anymore though. Be happy you didn't get a silent warrant, when they sneak through the windows and backyard and start man handling you while you're still asleep.

Are you sure that was the police?

sure im norty, but in the overal scheme of things, its a pretty low level norty

So that makes it ok to break the law? I'll have to use that defence if I ever run into trouble!!!

Thanks for you story Mantis [OSWEC]!

Cannabis is pretty tame.

I'm sick of tweakers though, they need to just chill out.

Be happy you didn't get a silent warrant, when they sneak through the windows and backyard and start man handling you while you're still asleep.

They can do this? I've never heard this happen around the traps and it seems a bit hardcore.

but I think the scope of the situation is lost as you don't know every single fact here.

Would your door have been kicked in if there wasn't drugs on the premises.

Cannabis is pretty tame.

Yeh that seems to be the way they felt as they were leaving.

One of the cops left his leather gloves here and I almost had some mittens for this winter. Unfortunately he came back =[

@ CHUB

never heard of that in australia, though they used to do it tonnes in america until they realised police officers were getting shot left, right and centre by people who thought they were being burgled. right to bear arms and all that jazz.

Would your door have been kicked in if there wasn't drugs on the premises.

According to the warrant, they could start to demolish the house looking for anything related to Cannabis and Amphs, but it was outlined in a very loose way to allow them to do pretty much anything to us/the house [within reason i guess] to get results.

The warrants they draw up [the 4 i've seen in my life] are very vague...

edit:

I'm not saying that the system is bad, it's just very one-sided and I'd say for a very good reason to ensure community safety.

I don't care that they raided us or got possible convictions from this, I just hate being woken up.

last edited by jesu at 12:35:31 19/Jul/07

I'm not sure... though regardless in many situations, they must have knocked/announced extremely quiet while people were asleep.

Then when they didn't get an answer, they didn't kick the door down, rather sneak around through the windows.

Seems fair to me. I'd be f***ing scared though if it ever happened.

f*** the haters smoke weed everyday brother

lol

It's fun when you get raided with (legal) guns on your premise, usually get about 15 cops with kevlar and shotguns/sub machine guns.

Really cool sight to see.

lol, reminds me of the time the local country cops came to one of my friends property to check out shots fired [on a small cattle property no less!] from an air gun.

apparently the neighbours were driving past and didnt know we were going to be there that weekend ahaha

two country cops showed up and didnt even seem like cops, saw we were all on the piss that morning and had a chat and left.

i love country cops, they are way better than city cops

Yeh, that sounds about right. I like to think that's a decent system. =]

did you have a morning woody?

personally, id prefer the cops to be doing something more useful than busting the lowest of low level dealers and users

i guess it must be a slow week in police land

I dunno, I prefer they keep a spread on the stuff they're enforcing rather than diverting all attention to only one end of the scale. it's good they do this

another thing too is that unless you actually know how they divert their resources, you simply aren't in a position to be judging them purely on the way you see it

Did they actually bust down the door or do you usually answer the door nude?

jesu you offtopic whore, thought I read this already

also jesu do u use the same username or that bling one (I am spete on there)

in other news come have a toke on the worlds biggest bong

the more money you pay for the lawyer, the more respectable the lawyer will be and in turn will probably know the judge and hence you'll get a better outcome

free lawyers get you no where

f*** the haters smoke weed everyday brother

http://whipitoutcomedy.blogspot.com/2007/06/smoke-weed-every-day.html

thanks for your token bulls*** story CHUB, well done.

also if you got raided at 7am, they knew you were small fry. and asif they knock soft and s*** CHUB. your ability to talk out of your arse is only exceeded by your ability to talk out of your arse. seek help.

So whats the deal with aeroplane food?

f***ing hell QGL is pissing me off, I'm out.

Cya. Good luck with future raids.

CHUB is scared off easily...but he'll be back in greater numbers.

nah pave that's not really right. how many times have you had to front up to magristrates court?

all you need is a lawyer who deals with the magistrates court all the time. and i think you'll find a lot of the lawyers who charge for that kind of thing also do pro-bono (sp?) work as well for legal aid etc.

trust me a family member of mine had to go to the magistrates court for a pretty serious charge a couple of weeks ago. researched this s*** very very thoroughly =)

edit: depending on what you're there for half the time you don't even need representation at the magistrates court. though for anything drug related i wouldn't dream of going without a lawyer

last edited by taggs at 16:04:14 19/Jul/07

Lol Rev Evil... love the s w ref

with throwing sticks?

probably more times than you have

how many times have you fronted up to the district court?

CHUB I can't understand why you get so insecure when people challenge your stories? Surely if they are true you shouldn't feel you have to defend yourself?

if they re either students or on the dole they might be eligible for legal aid. usually they will help you but won't represent you unless there is a possibility of a jail term.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2f/Sandy.jpg

heres the man you need

Chub you are a serious knob jockey.

i was living in a house that got reported for drugs

fortunately the drug squad checked the letterbox first and saw the guy who i lived there withs mail and he happened to be a sarge down at the local cop shop.. so there was no raid. in fact they didnt even come up to the door, i just heard they were at the bottom of the driveway, also i think they checked the letterbox cause the house was a penthouse overlooking the beach and i guess they didnt want to be disterbing the local judge or whoever they thought might live there

i think living in a s*** box with druggie mates and paint peeling off the walls lessens your chances of a reprieve and increases your chances of a bust in first ask questions later type of raid

found out later through him that it was a local cockf*** who had a beef with someone else who used to live there

its pretty f***ed that police can raid your house from an anon tip to a free call number, but in the end as long as you dont have drugs at your house there wont be a problem

none personally. been through it more times than i can count with friends and family members but.

but in the end as long as you dont have drugs at your house there wont be a problem

Except for that busted in door you now have to replace.

lol! Raids are funny... I've been the victim of probably close to 20.

So is that part of the thirty-plus times you've had weapons pulled on you or something?

One time they were doing a bunch of drug raids in my suburb, so they hired some "muscle" from the Brisbane city squad. Turned out to be a woman, over 7 foot, well over 100kg of muscle, long black trench coat and like 6 sets of handcuffs + multitude of weapons on her batman style utility belt... scariest looking beast I've seen in my life.

That just... I mean... you can't even attack something that made up. When a kid comes up and tells you some wild tale of seeing a monster or something, you just laugh it off and compliment their creativity.

Haha, that's amazing, CHUB. You've got such a powerful imagination!

One of my side jobs is involves getting paid for creative writing and story work... and CHUB impresses me...

its all about stats and the chain... Everyone should watch the wire, I dont care how fake it is or if its about an American system, im sure some of its true and its entertaining. In the show, higher ups push agendas they are forced to comply with by even higher ups or politicians. (the chain) and the agendas require stuff to happen (the stats)

It doesnt matter if its some s***kickers doing no more harm than f***ing up their own lives, if they can get a conviction then its tops for them, cause they make the stats and keep the chain happy. Same with some random bulls*** charge that you plead guilty to and just get good behaviour or community service for. If they make the charge stick and get a conviction, even if it does nothing to change it, they still got the number for their stats so everyone is happy.

Its not that cops are 'being arseholes' that want to bust up your fun - or the idea that if something is minor it shouldnt matter. (like wasting time on small fry rather than making big busts at the top level and actually doing something) Its about making number targets and keeping the system happy/fed. Silly kids with small amounts of drugs who are doing something ilegal, even though it might not mean s*** in the big scheme, are still a get. They are an easy get without much risk so if I had to catch a certain number of people id want to get the fish in the barrel, not have to drag my ass out into the sea with all the work that goes along with it.

**f***EN MAN IS KEEPIN ME DOWN... :P

^^
Nicely put.

And to think your life could be turned upside down from one phone call to a free number from some random person.

I'd be surprised if this incident was triggered soley by an unsubstantiated claim made via telephone.

to get a warrant there needs to be reasonable cause. l2law

A bong is reasonable cause to search an entire house @ 7am?

to get a warrant there needs to be reasonable cause. l2law

Isnt it 'probable' cause? and 'reasonable' doubt? I dont know terms for any of this s*** but probable cause seems to sound right and I think is what ive heard... then again, its just as likely that I heard it in an american movie and its different in australia.

Anyway, I bet 100% there was more to a raid than one single anon tipoff. Like some surveilance somewhere saw one of the guys buying off a small dealer they were watching and followed it from there. People are never 'innocent' in stuff like this - which is not to say what they did deserves the amount of trouble over it they receive, but this isnt a random totally honest citizen who never broke a law in their life getting hastled by the man cause hes a tyrannical c***.

One of my side jobs is involves getting paid for creative writing and story work.

so basically you're a f***ing fairy

it may be "probable", but my point is the cops don't go around raiding people based on a single phone tip-off. they would have surveyed the place and tapped the phones beforehand.

f***s me why they raided though unless they thought some supply or dealing was going on.

it may be "probable", but my point is the cops don't go around raiding people based on a single phone tip-off. they would have surveyed the place and tapped the phones beforehand.

lol

also haha pete

last edited by paveway at 20:51:17 19/Jul/07

taking it out of context just a little bit but

I dunno Spook, I am all for them busting people who break the law period.

Yer lets jail 99% of australia, everyone breaks the law most of the time it's just minor... but seriously you're a fkwit for doing drugs..

i got an idea

lets turn this thread into the wanks on this forum that sit in their bubble all life and have 0 fun

VERSE

the guys that go out andhave fun in moderation

VERSE

chub

You mean versus right?

nice one clint!

i think he meant CHORUS

Needs more mcnulty and freamon to be a real wire-tap...

LOL YOU'RE A f***WIT DEAD s*** BUM IN THE STREET IF YOU DO DRUGS


lol pull ya f***in head in and get a clue

can this be rated epic yet?

i vote we sanction this thread 'epic'

so basically you're a f***ing fairy

No I'm just not a dumb s*** who can aspire to nothing other than being a labourer :P

But yeah, lame trolling aside, Existence raised a good point:

There's the extremists who are down on everything Vs People who realise the odd puff of weed or the occasional pill for some fun is OK Vs stonetards Vs Chub.

There's nothing wrong with the odd bit of recreational drug use if it's in moderation. If these guys are getting ripped every day and have a serious problem, maybe getting raided is just what they need. Like you said Jesu, these guys are friends for life. This raid could be a blessing in disguise. If their weed habit is getting a bit out of hand, maybe this is the shock they need to get their s*** together. Some drugs, like alcohol, chocolate, fast food and other things that can damage you, are fine if done in moderation. But it's when you do these things too much, that you become an addict, and most get back in touuuuuuuuuuch...



Anyway I hope it all ultimately works out well.

I'm addicted to chocolate

There's nothing wrong with the odd bit of recreational drug use if it's in moderation.

cool

hey maybe this dude's mates can just quote you in court

use amsterdam as an example, that will work better

hey maybe this dude's mates can just quote you in court

Yeah, that's clearly what they're doing and sums up the point I was making.

Bunch of wowsers. QGL forum = The Salvation Army forum.

So many heads and not enough brain cells to fill a petrie dish.

FBI COME TO MY HOME! DISRESPECT MY FAMILY! ALL COS SOMEONE NARKED, AND YOU KNOW WHAT? IT WAS YOU!



IVE NEVER NARKED ON NOBODY!

you mustn't think much of yourself then some fat basturd if you keep hanging around here

Drugs get you nowhere and have adverse affects on quality of life..

Hehe, funny thing is when I had few too many billies for awhile I got better marks at Uni. Go figure eh.

i guess if you rely on the drugs to somehow get you somewhere, they won't

If they could Tax drugs, it probably be legal.....

Or not, just throwing it out there, you know.

Maxe wins this thread

followed by existence

then paveway

There's nothing wrong with the odd bit of recreational drug use if it's in moderation.

What an odd thing to say, considering the first post in this thread.

There is SOMETHING wrong with it - it's illegal.

you're such a square trog...

i prefer to think of trog as dudley doright

personally, id prefer the cops to be doing something more useful than busting the lowest of low level dealers and users

Unfortunately users and low level dealers are frequently involved in secondary crimes to support their business / habit.

ie. the user robs houses for jewellery etc and pay for their drugs with the stolen gear, the dealers melt the s*** down/fence it.

Not all, I am sure someone here knows the model drug user who doesn't have a problem financially, socially, psychologically or medically... /sarcasm

financially, socially, psychologically or medically

well i have no troubles with any of those, spook sure doesn't

jigzie doesn't

just to name a few

hehe, dudley is the sickest name, i wish to meet more people in possession of such a title

their nickname could be "dud"

Umm.. /sarcasm lols? Give me a break. The. Over. f***ing. Whelming. Majority. Of people that I know that have ever taken "drugs" (ooooh) in their life are model citizens. Fine upstanding young professionals now. Give me a break about your implied notion that anything taking a splif or popping an E before heading out "supports" their need with "secondary" crimes.

There is the law and there is just law. I've stopped trying to convince trog that the two can be different and it's clear that many here fall in to the same boat and you know what fine. I don't claim to be right, nor that there is a right to be claimed. What I can say is that ultimately, it's a personal choice. You can choose to let the current law of the day be your ultimate moral compass, or you can choose to admit you can make your own moral calls. Whatever.

Anyone that gets busted because they have a bit of weed on them, or a pill or two has my sympathy.

have a problem financially, socially, psychologically or medically

A lot, most of the times, bloody oath and sort of.

come back to us plokkles, we miss you

Hey man I'm trying to come back for some Punisher lovin'... but you know... it's too hard.. I'm having to engage in all this secondary crime to support all my crazy London town drug taking ways.. soon! You know, it's not a habit I'm cool, I feel alright, if you don't have it you're on the other side, I'm not an addict baby, that's a...

hmm.. anyway.. these days it feels like there are more qglgians in euro than there are in Qld (once you filter out all the im-be-stylez)

(PS, I'm drunk)

Unfortunately users and low level dealers are frequently involved in secondary crimes to support their business / habit.

do you have to do this to support your drinking habit obes?

There is SOMETHING wrong with it - it's illegal.

Yeah, because the law is ALWAYS right. Even back when women weren't allowed to vote, or when people were allowed to own slaves.

is someone going to try and say that drugs do not influence property crime rates?

There is the law and there is just law. I've stopped trying to convince trog that the two can be different and it's clear that many here fall in to the same boat and you know what fine. I don't claim to be right, nor that there is a right to be claimed. What I can say is that ultimately, it's a personal choice. You can choose to let the current law of the day be your ultimate moral compass, or you can choose to admit you can make your own moral calls. Whatever.

I don't recall any such convincing; maybe 10 years ago back in the day when I used to kick your ass in stargate.wad. I certainly appreciate the difference between a law and a just law.

I just think its stupid to say "omgz there's nothing wrong with taking drugs". There is something wrong with it - it's against the law. I fully support people's right to choose to take drugs and, imho, the laws on this are not appropriate and in many cases stupid. But at the end of the day, it's illegal and if you get busted, shut the f*** up and don't whine to anyone about a choice you made! Same goes for people that drive too fast, get busted parking illegally, etc, etc)

Yeah, because the law is ALWAYS right. Even back when women weren't allowed to vote

Think how low un-employment would be if women left their careers to become homemakers? We’d have less obese children because mothers could stay at home and make them their lunches. Men would be less prone to road rage because there’d be less cars on the street (and let’s face it, half of the job of a homemaker is to simply f*** her husband). Divorce rates would tumble. More people would come back to the Church.

It would be a good step to go back to the good lifestyle choices that made Australia what it is today.

, or when people were allowed to own slaves.

Imagine how strong our economy would be if we could still have slaves? Besides, I’m sure you’d solve national crime and international terrorism by allowing slavery.

was that to subtle, or should I have included ninja dragon pirates?

I don't remember a cheapass railgun in stargate.wad

Think how low un-employment would be if women left their careers to become homemakers? We’d have less obese children because mothers could stay at home and make them their lunches. Men would be less prone to road rage because there’d be less cars on the street (and let’s face it, half of the job of a homemaker is to simply f*** her husband). Divorce rates would tumble. More people would come back to the Church.

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA I'm so going to get drunk at the RE tonight and start a fight with a chick using that as an argument. haha pure gold.

I don't think smoking some weed or popping a few E's, or doing a like of coke is any more "wrong" than having a few vodkas. Sure, there are disproportianite consequences if you choose one drug over the other, but in terms of being "wrong" in a moral sense. No.

But I do respect the overall benefits that the rule of law brings to society, and I am not advocating that that all be dropped the second someone gets busted for a crime that shouldn't be one to begin with.

I do though, feel sorry for anyone hit with laws that I feel are either unfair, unjustified, or inconsistent. I do though, get annoyed when words like "wrong" (which to me connote moral sentiments) are bandied around in what are really amoral discussions.

S'all I'm trying to say, innit?

haha you pommie

I do agree though
but I'm not convinced on the minimal can equal zero thing

last edited by Jim at 11:39:17 20/Jul/07

Don't go racist on me now Jim, or I'll Knee You in the FACE, Jim Style!

I do though, feel sorry for anyone hit with laws that I feel are either unfair, unjustified, or inconsistent. I do though, get annoyed when words like "wrong" (which to me connote moral sentiments) are bandied around in what are really amoral discussions.

Really? Surely 'wrong' is used more commonly in the factual sense - as in, the opposite of 'right'.

You're wrong.

See?

Someone who randomly once in a blue moon had a spliff or popped an E is not going to get raided or be known to the police.

plok, your lunacy is missed. But seriously you and your uni boyfriends popping pills to make the pillow more tasty doesn't count, they are experimenting, not users.

Spook, alcohol being legal is another discussion, and any addiction is bad (befor you argue that). But since you brought it up. Prohibition in the US lead to some of the most infamous crime gangs of the 20th century.
ie.

Many of Chicago's most notorious gangsters, including Al Capone and his enemy Bugs Moran, made millions of dollars through illegal alcohol sales. Numerous other crimes, including theft and murder, were directly linked to Chicago's anti-prohibition movements.

wiki

So regardless of whether or not drugs are good or bad.
They are illegal, and being illegal they have a secondary crime issue attached to them. Whether its as simple as tax avoidance or as messy as murder, they are as a direct result of the illegal substance.

Spook, alcohol being legal is another discussion, and any addiction is bad (befor you argue that).

matey, you missed my point

if you are stealing to feed your addiction, i dont think it really matters whether your addiction is legal or not, you are doing something norty.

my original point was, a lot of us dabble in illegal substances, but we are no more addicted to them, than people who like a drink are to alcohol and probably less addicted than most smokers.

i believe that people with addictive personalities will find ways to wreck themselves, regardless of what their particular addiction is. alcohol, pokies/gambling, perscription drugs are all legal, but can do the same damage illegal drugs can.

saying drug users steal to support their their habit, is like saying pokie players steal to support their habit

its just not true

pokie players steal to pay my wage

muhaha

i agree with plok :D what's right to one person is wrong to another... it's a moral point of view. jesu n his mates are actually pretty lucky that it's 2007 & not 1987... when with qld's state of emergency laws they would have all got mandatory life sentences for possession. nowadays they will most likely get a few weeks of community service maximum. which was right? both, neither!? depends on your point of view... both were legal at one time & illegal at another time.

fricken joh (YER, THATS RIGHT INFI, YOU HEARD ME)

Heh, old man Spook has a point.

At the end of the day it's supply and demand.

saying drug users steal to support their their habit, is like saying pokie players steal to support their habit
its just not true

Story

Story 2

those two stories cover all pokie players in australia do they?

According to Dr Karl: caffeine is by far the most widely used drug around the world. You're more likely to die taking a pain killer while fishing than from using ecstasy once.

Having said that, I personally am not up for it and I have never had the desire. I don't think other people should do it even by choice... cause I have a rant of an argument that goes like this: you buy drugs, you may be a model citizen, but you are giving money to a dealer who also sells drugs to dodgey people, and that seller is also probably involved in other dodgey things. Even if just one person is made ill or hurt from anyone using those drugs, in a way you are supporting it.

I'm a boozer, not a loser user LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

haha if that helps you sleep at night

I bet Jim steals to support his 4x4 addiction!
If not stealing then he surely runs over a few School kids here and there.

I thik anyone doing that stuff is pretty stupid, but then again, I gave up Drinking alchol for like 2.5 years, i'm crazy, what do I know.

Anyone who drinks, yet puts down Weed Smokers because of Health or Social or 'It's bad for you' reasons is a hypocrite.
However, saying they're stupid because they're breaking the law is well within reason. As long as you have/will never break the law yourself.

How many of you steal to support your TV/Movie/Computer game habits?
Thought so.

I bet Jim steals to support his 4x4 addiction!
If not stealing then he surely runs over a few School kids here and there.

I thought all admins were set for life from the phat lan loots.

Anyone who drinks, yet puts down Weed Smokers because of Health or Social or 'It's bad for you' reasons is a hypocrite.
However, saying they're stupid because they're breaking the law is well within reason. As long as you have/will never break the law yourself.

How many of you steal to support your TV/Movie/Computer game habits?
Thought so.

I agree and disagree. Alcohol is responsible for more disease than other drugs (except for cigarettes methinks) but at the same time it is a heavily standardised drug, for want of a better word. It is also easier to moderate how much alcohol you put in your system. There is a "safe" amount of alcohol that you can stick to that will not increase your risk of disease. So for those reasons and considering it could take just one pill or one cone to cause permanent psychological disturbances with no warning, alcohol is not as unhealthy.

However, most people who drink alcohol will be drinking more than a safe amount, which is no more than 4 standards in one sitting for men. The practice of RSA at the pubs I have been to is ridiculous and I'm all for people suing places for letting them get too drunk and hurting themselves... HAHA LAWSUITS HERE I COME BABY.

I steal oxygen for my hungry turbo, but school kids aren't really much of a catalyst in a high-compression engine so I don't go out of my way to run them down

dirty diesel engines :p

you mean diseasel

bandag bullet eat yor heart out.. Geez that was making coal

and my favourite, complete with redneck tunez

one pill or one cone to cause permanent psychological disturbances with no warning, alcohol is not as unhealthy.

you cant be serious.. please cite or produce some source material for this ridiculous comment.

We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half-full of cocaine and a whole galaxy of multicolored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers...Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.

Once you get locked in to a serious drug collection (not that we needed all that for the trip) the tendancy is to push it as far as you can.

L2Party nooobubbles

god thats an awesome movie and quote

hi5

i prefer these xuasts plz :D

Jim,

My mission on this forum is to increase that brain cell count in the petrie dish. I see you've just made my work even harder.

you cant be serious.. please cite or produce some source material for this ridiculous comment.

Which bit can't I be serious about? The drugs causing problems or alcohol being less unhealthy?

some fat bastard if you would just stop breathing, the planet's avg intelligence would skyrocket. talk about making work for yourself!

saying drug users steal to support their their habit, is like saying pokie players steal to support their habit

its just not true

Spook, how on earth do you believe that ?

Here is an Australian pro-legalisation website. And they claim as the number 1 benefit from legalising hardcore recreational drugs :

Most addicts, freed from the degradation of mugging, prostitution and stealing to feed their habit could lead a more or less normal life.

It also lists

The level of muggings, home invasions, bank hold-ups and violence would dramatically decrease.

as a benefit

So even the people who are saying drugs are good'n'stuff, are saying that illegal drugs have secondary crime issues, and that's just talking about the direct effect.

Indirectly selling drugs is illegal, so dealers to protect their business they have to use violence, the cops won't help protect your chem lab. To not get caught, they have to launder money and or avoid paying tax, boring but still a crime. So even if you are a fine law abiding upstanding crack-head, you are indirectly funding the criminal elements.

i use drugs, all my friends use drugs, i see a s*** load of people on drugs at events i go to

you saying we all steal so we can get down?

Jim, but would it make a positive difference in this forum if I stopped breathing? I think not. Whereas could the same be said in return? I think so.

last edited by Some Fat Bastard at 14:42:19 20/Jul/07

well... you know what think did don't you

spook baby don't do drugs... for me okay? f***ing arsehole

Who knows what you personally do. All I am saying is there are studies out there that suggest a link between illegal drugs and crime. And my prejudiced view of the world would support those studies.

ps. Announcing on a public forum that you and your friends do drugs is a smart thing to do.

If you get raided, make sure to carry a knife in case they cavity search you.

well, lets hope the cops do raid me, so that they can put me in gaol and throw away the key and i get the punishment a monster like me deserves

ps the cops wouldnt find anything, coz theres nothing to be found

But the real reason is that making something ilegal creates the crime, not the subtance itself. So the chicken and the egg paradox doesnt even work because the drugs existed for hundreds of years (Tribal groups far back) and the organised crime only came about when something was ilegal. (hence smuggling being the most common theme in their inceptions)

All your arguments about crime support the pro-legalisation of drugs because everything you are quoting concludes that crime is a result of drugs being ilegal. It never links the drug directly.

edit: Oh - bubbles would have been involved at the street level. There isnt anyone on the west side that bubs doesnt know.

last edited by qmass at 15:24:49 20/Jul/07

haha^^

you are a monster spook
a guitar-hating pillaging-for-drugs monster

Drugs are bad......mmmkay!

I love panadol

this thread is an abortion

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g95/neda85/cnnpot.jpg

wouldn't have any of these junkies, if joh was still runnin' the show. now they all have labs under their houses. damn pot- and meth-heads.

Yup, some crimes happen because of the "prohibition". I agree.

I can see the argument for legalising them (I'm actually a proponent legalisation of the less addictive and less harmful drugs) ... and taxing the mofo out of them (to recover the costs for the anti drug education and other drug related medical costs). I can also see how legalising crack might cause more problems then it solves. ie. the pros and cons.

But that wasn't spooks argument, spooks argument was that drug users aren't more likely to get involved with crime.

*shrug*
You could have argued, that just because a disproportionate number of criminals get involved in drugs, doesn't mean drug users are likely to get involved in (other) crime.

I do think that using drugs (including alcohol) that alter your mental state can affect your ability to make good choices, which can result in you breaking the law (and not just those nasty artificial laws that have no good purpose, but things like don't rape and don't accidentally kill people).

And seriously, wouldn't declaring yourself and friends to be drug users be enough to get a warrant to search a place ... at some stupid time of the morning ... with free cavity search

if its a hawt female copper, she can cavity search me anytime of the day

Do you have illegal mp3's?
movies?

They are stealing/crime>
You could have spent that $$$ from drugs to buy that music/dvd legally..


(Really I don't give a s*** what you do, but fags saying they don't steal in this age/era are, well.. fags).

Really? Surely 'wrong' is used more commonly in the factual sense - as in, the opposite of 'right'.

You're wrong.

See?

/shrug. Yes, if I tell someone they are wrong I could be telling them that they are incorrect. But how can you say "taking drugs is incorrect". Doesn't parse man. Saying "taking drugs is wrong" is a moral judgement, one you justify by citing the law. I have nothing against that, but I think it's either a lack of consideration for your choice of words or just disingenious to claim you aren't talking morality. Try repeatedly asking the question "why is it wrong" to see if you're talking morality. You'll either end up at something like "because 1 + 1 = 2 ffs" or end up at something like "because you should just follow the law ffs/becuase it says so in the holy gaible ffs".

Why not say "taking drugs is illegal" if you want to be purely factual, and avoid charged words like "right" and "wrong" in these sorts of debates.

Obes, it's cute that you want to play, but I see you've slipped even further and you've somehow managed to talk yourself into a circle or three with only the slighest encouragement from some others. Clearly past your peak.. oh well :(

demon > Jim @ DM4

this thread needs more cars

http://images.projectstripe.com/are32/flameby.gif

well, lets hope the cops do raid me, so that they can put me in gaol and throw away the key and i get the punishment a monster like me deserves

I hope you get raped. No - you'd like that.

Why not say "taking drugs is illegal" if you want to be purely factual, and avoid charged words like "right" and "wrong" in these sorts of debates.

But it's wrong, because its not right to do it. Amirite?

f*** this thread ok?

plok ... So 1+1=2 is right but immoral ? or is 2+2=1 incorrect but right ?

Also no circle.
Drug users are more likely to be involved in other crime, even if thats because of the prohibition in the first place.

This guy's having an awesome time
http://www.oddsquad.com/media/resampled_25__BACK_resize.JPG
No medical issues there ...

i told you fags not to turn this into a drugs discussion and look what you've done. i hate you all.

This guy's having an awesome time

and if the drugs had been made by the guys trying to save him instead of some bikies in a shed, he probably would have been having an awesome time :P

Or we should all just eat mushrooms and cactus... not silly designer drugs.

i told you fags not to turn this into a drugs discussion and look what you've done. i hate you all.

Who would have thought, a discussion about drugs turned into a drugs discussion

well... you know what think did don't you

Yeah, he thought he fell out of bed, so he got up to take a look!

no a discussion about a raid turned into another retarded drugs thread with the same people saying the same things they said months ago when we had the last one.

how about you all worry a little less about what other people do.

edit: i need to l2grammar

last edited by taggs at 19:48:57 20/Jul/07

how about you all worry a little less about what other people do.

Said the man telling other people what not to do.

no u

"Prohibition...goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to
control a man's appetite by legislation and makes a crime out of things
that are not crimes. A prohibition law strikes a blow at the very
principles upon which our government was founded."

-- Abraham Lincoln
December, 1840

obes is right guys, how can any of you question is logic

"Yabba-dabba-doo"

-- Fred Flintstone
May, 1982

so whats the deal with cab drivers and the B.O?

How long are these shifts?

obes is a fat old noob

gimme a chinger

Drug users are more likely to be involved in other crime, even if thats because of the prohibition in the first place.

Ah cool, so you're saying that we should remove prohibition?

How many of you steal to support your TV/Movie/Computer game habits?

loooolololol, every time you download a torrent, god kills a kitten.

Do you have illegal mp3's?
movies?

They are stealing/crime

Haha that logic is so f***ed it reminds me of that bash.org quote:

[NES] lol
[NES] I download something from Napster
[NES] And the same guy I downloaded it from starts downloading it from me when I'm done
[NES] I message him and say "What are you doing? I just got that from you"
[NES] "getting my song back f***er"

hands up if you looked to the author and expected it to be CHUB when you saw this topic?

hahahahahaahahhaaha

yes i did

That's just because you're in love with me paveway.

I agree that I expected chub and also that paveway is gay.

Does this mean I'm an e-celeb?

If you have to ask then probably not...

Damn, way to burst my bubble :(

Don't worry dude, you'll still have your gimmicks, no-one can take away your gimmick status...

you keep dreaming chub

clint don't be cut cause you're a s*** c***

I'm delusional paveway, in my own head I'm already an e-celeb!

I can't wait till the next QGL meet, you better go (but no spooning k?).

umm spoon is the best bit..

LOL parabol, that quote was a classic!

Haha that logic is so f***ed it reminds me of that bash.org quote:

How is the logic that downloading MP3's or Movies is crime/stealing... f***ed?

Pretty sure the law also agrees with me and not you.

(ps I really dont give a s*** who does or doesn't download music)

How is the logic that downloading MP3's or Movies is crime/stealing... f***ed?

Because you are implying that every downloaded mp3/movie is a direct monetary loss for the entertainment industry. So if I have 10000 albums (on top of several purchased ones), the loss must be 10k x $30 = $300K. Never mind the fact that I don't even have $300K and I never would have spent more than $150 annually on albums prior to pirating.

On top of that there's the fuzzy concept that random albums one downloads actually make you hear music you otherwise wouldn't have heard, making you either buy the albums (if they're genuinely good) or also seeing them live when they tour. Hence more money to the artist that they never would have seen.

This last paragraph is fuzzy as I said, but it just shows things aren't as simplistic as you'd like to believe. Granted there are indeed people who would have stopped buying completely in favour of piracy (there are always cheapskates) ... but a huge number still buy their favourite albums and go to concerts.

I listen to heaps of new music through internet radio (shoutcast, etc), which many artists have embraced .. and if they're good then I see them in concert. If they're not good then thank f*** I get to try before I buy, otherwise I would have wasted my money on something that's crap.

last edited by parabol at 11:42:28 22/Jul/07

Because you are implying that every downloaded mp3/movie is a direct monetary loss for the entertainment industry.

I didn't see that implication in this thread. I agree that it's a dumb implication, but it's beside the point. The discretion isn't yours to make - you don't get to decide that on the grounds that you perceive no actual loss of income to the copyright holder, you may lawfully be exempt from copyright.

I didn't see that implication in this thread.

Well when the word "stealing" is thrown in it usually implies that you have chosen to download that album instead of buying it, without any regard as to whether you had any intention of buying it in the first place.

you don't get to decide that on the grounds that you perceive no actual loss of income to the copyright holder, you may lawfully be exempt from copyright.

That's true, I have no objections to what the law actually says. I would merely pay little attention to the law in this event as it crosses into a region where very little harm (if at all) is done. And yes I am aware this opinion will not defend me in court, but the "infringement" is so minor it'd probably never get to that (unless I am in the US of A). If I had been distributing and/or selling the pirated music or using it as my sole source of music, this would have been an entirely different matter.

Sort of like if you're on the right-hand lane of a freeway on a Sunday morning when no-one else is on the road. The law says it's illegal when you're not overtaking and you can get fined, but f***ed if it's doing anyone any harm.

(And yes I am using the word "I" in the general sense, not talking about my own habits)

last edited by parabol at 12:06:09 22/Jul/07

f***ing Captain Obvious convention up in HURRR

also who the f*** is Chub

p.s. ur all gay

I've met you multiple times Evis :)

Because you are implying that every downloaded mp3/movie is a direct monetary loss for the entertainment industry.

Umm, it is? Your quality of life has improved (one way or another) with these 10,000 - illegally downloaded - albums, otherwise you wouldn't have downloaded them. Should the entertainment industry be supporting your improved lifestyle free of charge or for a measly $150/year, or whatever it is, a year?

Umm, it is? Your quality of life has improved (one way or another) with these 10,000 - illegally downloaded - albums, otherwise you wouldn't have downloaded them. Should the entertainment industry be supporting your improved lifestyle free of charge or for a measly $150/year, or whatever it is, a year?

You're making it sound like I'd be using up their resources and hence it's directly costing them money to "support my lifestyle". That's not true.

Say I were a downloader who still bought a few albums. To them, from a "cash-handed-over" point of view, I'd still be paying $150/year for music as I would have before piracy become easy. Whether or not I download more songs because I can't afford more albums does not affect them because I'm no longer interacting with them in any way. I'm not going into a music store wasting employee time, I'm not using their network bandwidth. I never would have bought those extra albums unless I had more money (from say, a pay rise or better job, etc).

So no matter what you say, it's still not a $300K (or multi-million $) loss.

(And no I don't condone nor support piracy, but I believe many of the arguments about it are inaccurate)

last edited by parabol at 14:40:42 22/Jul/07

How the f*** did this htread turn into 11 pages!

o rly chub, in that case hi2u

without any regard as to whether you had any intention of buying it in the first place.

I have no intention of buying a car, so if I took that car it'd be OK because I wasn't going to pay for it anyway. So it isn't really stealing is it..

Oooo wait. If I took that car, that means somebody else doesn't get it, so I have stolen from them. If only I could make a carbon copy of that car, then everyone has what they want and I have that car too.. However, if I have that car, and everyone else has that car, that would mean the car is worthless. So everyone that has paid for that car has suddenly lost their money in it as its worth drastically drops, so I have stolen some of their investment, so instead of stealing one big thing from someone, I've stolen a small amount of many people..

Buy stealing music via downloading, you could be stealing from all those people that brought it.

a car is kind of at the wrong end of the spectrum for an analogy though - your example is put into a bit more perspective if you use something like a battery-powered torch or a hammer instead - seeing as though you're talking about investment and resale value

it's still a decent point, but you're not making a fair comparison

Wow worst analogy I've heard in a while and it didn't really address the issues I raised.

Anyway let's get back to stoner bashing.

My point is that you've attached a value to these 10,000 albums which you downloaded for free. The industry isn't seeing this value, which they are entitled to, and therein lies their cost. Maybe I'm simplifying it a bit much here, but it seems you're trying to justify getting something for nothing and in the process its not going to cost anyone anything.

Nope doesn't seem to make sense to me

i give up, see you all in hell then

If I'm not going to buy the albums anyway Strange Rash, who's losing money?

heaven for me - I offset all my piracy by letting people in front of me in peak hour traffic

thats what you say anyway, just cos your diseasel can't keep up with the traffic flow
/bait

If I'm not going to buy the albums anyway Strange Rash, who's losing money?

Nobody! - but if you could only buy the albums in a store, how much music would you be listening to on your computer?

In the end it doesn't matter who is losing money or not. The fact remains that you are stealing. Stealing is wrong. Don't get too pissed if someone steals something of yours.

In the end it doesn't matter who is losing money or not. The fact remains that you are stealing. Stealing is wrong. Don't get too pissed if someone steals something of yours.

How is it stealing if some kid who couldn't afford to buy the album anyway downloads it? WHO is going without something they would have had otherwise? Oh that's right, nobody. I can't afford a Picasso, but suppose I printed out an exact replica for myself and hung it on my wall, is that stealing? In the end it's allowing me to enjoy the art as the creator intended without having to dump an asston of money on some d*******ed middle man.

Don't get me wrong, making money off of piracy is wrong, but if you're pirating for personal use things you wouldn't pay money for anyway, nobody is really getting hurt.

f***en LOL.

I think the original point Spook and some others were trying to make was...

We all break the law, regardless of how minor. It's not right but we ALL do it.

Stop trying to justify your MP3 stealing or drug taking FFS. Your s*** stinks as much as everyone elses.

Asshats. Do what you want to make the most of your life. Morals should be a guide on which you make your decisions. Laws are meant to keep us safe, sometimes for ourselfs.

At the end of the day, fear is what makes a decent person.

fear is what makes a decent person.

That has got to be one of the most nonsensical things i've heard in a while.

Another argument wither drugs are bad or good. You will never win against narrow minded people. CBFed arguing you know where i stand.

How is it stealing if some kid who couldn't afford to buy the album anyway downloads it?

Cos the law says that you don't get to acquire it without meeting the owner's terms. It's really, really simple.

fear is what makes a decent person.
That has got to be one of the most nonsensical things i've heard in a while.

Ugh, if you aren't affraid of the consequences. Then you're more likely to commit that crime and/or amoral act.

f***en stooge.

Ugh, if you aren't affraid of the consequences. Then you're more likely to commit that crime and/or amoral act.

f***en stooge.

Wow, so much angst mixed in whatever illogical point you're trying to make.

Not doing something due to fear of consequences doesn't really make you a decent person. It might make your actions seem decent, but you're no better on the inside, just more a coward. Wouldn't you be a better person if there were no consequences, but you decided not "commit that crime and/or amoral act" anyway despite how appealing it is?

Awaiting another abusive and angry reply from you.

f*** you parabol, even if I do agree with you ya s***c***

Ugh, if you aren't affraid of the consequences. Then you're more likely to commit that crime and/or amoral act.

f***en stooge.

Not doing something because of a fear of the consequence is not a moral choice. It is merely an animalistic reaction based on a primitive, yet powerful emotion. There is no moral issue to deal with.
Most people don't commit crimes because they know it to be morally wrong. The consequences of the action have nothing to do with it. If you don't steal, kill, hurt or commit other offenses based on the possible consequences and have no moral issue against them then you probably have some serious mental and social problems, a psychopath.

So Tollazar, you don't consider rape, child sexual abuse crimes and immoral? You seem to think they are mutually exclusive whereas I consider in some cases they are mutually inclusive.

Another argument wither drugs are bad or good. You will never win against narrow minded people. CBFed arguing you know where i stand.

wither drugs! they make stuff wither ?

Ugh, if you aren't affraid of the consequences. Then you're more likely to commit that crime and/or amoral act.

Only if you are a s*** stain with no values in the first place.

not necessarily obes. I would have tried to play more games on the PCs at skool if it weren't for the fact that i thought you'd come and sit on me

If you don't steal, kill, hurt or commit other offenses based on the possible consequences and have no moral issue against them then you probably have some serious mental and social problems, a psychopath.

I think you mean sociopath. It could be argued that both incest and the stealing of mp3s contribute to social decay in some form or another.

As with all laws however they are imperfect and that is why we pay very knowledgeable (arrogant, corrupt?) people to make and interpret them for us.

If you however wish to argue that stealing of mp3s, dealing of drugs and violent sexual assault are all morally comparable, then good luck to you. Most socially functioning people are able to distinguish the varying levels of severity however.

Australian law are outdated and stupid.

piracy gets ugly when organised crime syndicates sell pirate material on the street to fund there gangly ways, which some people claim even link to terrorism. but i honestly dont see any social harm to the average joe downloading a movie or an mp3 as long as hes not making a buck off it.