http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37941

3 letters = lol

You're doing well at this linking stuff....

wot u talkin about willis?

won't the person with the legit key just ring up and give details of the serial number on the box/DVD?

then MS will cancel both keys and give the original owner a new one

and everyone pays more because of the additional support costs MS needs to cover


edit: no link for you!

last edited by Strange Rash at 18:01:16 02/Mar/07

very nicely done, edit the post before anyone else realises...

but back on topic, nice find. this is good news. the more they can water down and dissasemble the stupid restrictive vista activation, the better.

won't the person with the legit key

Assuming it's feasible to get a collision with a 'genuine' key.

For example, assume that are 1 trillion keys which will mathematically pass validation. Now assume that 1 million of these possible keys were legitimately generated by Microsoft and sold to consumers. The rest are unused.

Assuming you brute-force a key, it may be possible, but unlikely that you'll end up with the same key as a legitimate owner of Vista.

Disclaimer: The above is purely guess-work and may not represent exactly how Vista works. For example, Microsoft may be keeping track of keys they themselves generated and only allow activation on them .. hence the trial and error for activation.

surely all MS has to do is limit the number of attempts to 3 after which you have to call MS in order to get the key to work, or limit it to 3 a month or something like that.

if you can only attempt 3 keys each month it will be pointless to try..

last edited by TufNuT at 19:11:19 02/Mar/07

surely all MS has to do is limit the number of attempts to 3

What will they actually be enforcing the limit in terms of?

The IP Address that your try to activate from?
Your Hardware Hash?

Both of which can easily be circumvented.

You arent repeatedly trying to activate keys...

The brute force method just iterates random strings for the key until it is accepted by the local copy of the OS. You don't even have to be online - so there is no way MS can stop it at a local level.

Once the key works with the local copy the activation can be done. So far it seems to be working for most of people from what I have heard.


Not good news for MS really, maybe they do have a big database of keys that have actually been printed, then it wouldn't be so bad. Will be interesting to see what happens from here.


Possibly could result in an algorithm change in a service pack much like how SP2 with winXP nuked the old FCKGW key, plus countless other pirated keys.

Possibly could result in an algorithm change in a service pack much like how SP2 with winXP nuked the old FCKGW key

or just a windows update

Take that, Microsoft.

They've really lost the plot lately with restrictions on everything, though the start of all this was this activation BS back around 2000.

I don't understand why if you're a paying customer this should be a problem?
Why do people keep bitching. If everyone played by the rules and actually PAID for software instead of trying to steal other people's serial keys (which is essentially like trying to use someone else's Credit card to purchase something on the internet, just trying random numbers until theirs came up) then there wouldn't be such stringent protection against pirated copies.

It's illegal to run the software so don't. Starforce legitimately causes issues with some people's computers and restricts legitimate users from using their purchased software. Windows Activation doesn't restrict anyone if they're doing the right thing. If you don't like it, go use linux. If you do use linux, why the f*** would you bitch about windows products? It seems like everyone needs to bitch about everything that Microsoft puts out, when for the average user, this isn't a problem (IF everyone else wasn't a criminal f***er trying to steal keys etc).




last edited by Moo at 23:33:26 02/Mar/07

why the f*** would you bitch about windows products

Maybe because its a piece of s*** operating system* at a piece of s*** price**

* this maybe a little harsh
** f*** MS, NOT PAYING $800 for an OS.

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/3083/legitgw3.jpg

you're being petulant. Why pay $800?
that for the ultimate edition?
if you don't feel you could pay that much for a piece of software, then don't. Get the Premium edition which is much less. Or if that's past your budget, then get Vista home basic edition.

If you don't like the price, don't use the software, it's much like Paintshop Pro or Macromedia (now adobe) Studio suites. They're no cheaper.

I don't believe that vista is a piece of s***, i think it's got its place in the market, maybe not for you? go use FreeBSD, or some other piece of software that wasn't painstakingly written with you in mind so that you install and play your games with ease, or connect to the internet with ease, or do anything ELSE with ease rather than having recompile a kernel or some crap like that.

If you want worse examples of high-priced software, ask a panelbeater what software program they use? Most likely "flexiquote" which costs on average $1200 per year per machine for a license, and requires a security dongle to run it. Now tell me that your one-off $300-800 is too expensive?

Moo has a bloody good point there...

Starforce legitimately causes issues with some people's computers and restricts legitimate users from using their purchased software

hehe - it's awesome seeing what starforce is doing to people's Vista installations atm eh

I find it pretty dongs remote desktop doesn't come with the home premium version afaik.

Theres plenty of situations it would be great to use around the home environment.

Agrees with Koopz, about agreeing with Moo.
I think that an OS like Vista is worth the price. $179 for Premium is cheaper than many motherboards.
For a critical component you'll find is is one of the cheapest.

you're being petulant. Why pay $800?
that for the ultimate edition?
if you don't feel you could pay that much for a piece of software, then don't. Get the Premium edition which is much less. Or if that's past your budget, then get Vista home basic edition.

I'm a power user, not a gay user, vista home is a waste of time and money for everyone. You get dick all features and even premium is missing vital features I would like to have. MS did this on purpose so you would buy the most expensive one ie: Ultimate with everything. Kind of like XP Pro without the XP.

I don't believe that vista is a piece of s***, i think it's got its place in the market, maybe not for you? go use FreeBSD, or some other piece of software that wasn't painstakingly written with you in mind so that you install and play your games with ease, or connect to the internet with ease, or do anything ELSE with ease rather than having recompile a kernel or some crap like that.

I'm so close to running Ubuntu/Knoppix on a permanent basis it's not funny. I'm not saying Vista isnt for everyone, for randoms its fine. Vista itself is very nice to use - I have used it quite a bit, but the price is such a deterrant when XP 1) works 2) is cheaper 3) will still be good to use in 5 years time. Hell some people are still using 2000 or 98!

If you want worse examples of high-priced software, ask a panelbeater what software program they use? Most likely "flexiquote" which costs on average $1200 per year per machine for a license, and requires a security dongle to run it. Now tell me that your one-off $300-800 is too expensive?

That $1200 a year license probably makes them $20,000+ a year. The only thing my $800 OS will do is make the CC unhappy, collect dust on the shelf after installed, possibly cause me headaches, and make me PC experience a whole lot better*

* maybe :)

I'm a power user, not a gay user, vista home is a waste of time and money for everyone. You get dick all features and even premium is missing vital features I would like to have.

What features do you need and use in XP that Home Premium doesn't have? The only things I think are wrong with the budget versions of Vista (compared to teh expensive ones) is the networking limitations. I think the cheapest XP version can only hook up to 5 other PC's (could be wrong).

will still be good to use in 5 years time.

GAAAAHAHAHA. What 'power users' like yourself would still be using XP in 5 years time? How many REAL power users use Windows 2000 now?

I find it pretty dongs remote desktop doesn't come with the home premium version afaik.

Theres plenty of situations it would be great to use around the home environment.

Agreed. But neither did windows 2000. But can you do a trick just like with 2000, where you just have mstsc.exe and mstscax.dll on a usb drive/server or whatever and launch off that?

In 5 years power users will all have been through a couple of upgrade cycles, vista will have undergone a few service packs, and some DX10 only games will probably be released.

I'd say gamers will have well and truly switched by the time 2012 swings round, plenty of "power users" will be running xp on older hardware (probably not their primary rigs, unless they're using legacy apps which refuse to run under vista), windows 2000 pro won't be very common probably, since the extended support runs out on the 13/07/10; online support will still be availible for it for a few years more but I doubt very many people will still be using 2k for workstations at that time.

You would want to hope 2000 users had swapped by then, yes I agree I will eventually have to switch to Vista but for Ultimate it's not worth it at all at the moment. Home premium would have been fine if it had Remote Desktop and maybe the PC Backup software but I'm not sure about it's game playing ability. They have already started on the OS to come after Vista anyway...

XP will stil be run for a while imo.

Windows Activation doesn't restrict anyone if they're doing the right thing.

I bought windows xp, my legit cd key is now banned because I upgraded the firmware on my burner and my hardware hash changed more than 3 times. Yes that's right. No, you shut up, people who do the right thing DO get f***ed over. kthxbi.

lola sux2beacaveman

I bought windows xp...

When did this happen? I thought the hardware changes were fairly forgiving in XP... Tried calling them and explaining the situation?

Just curious to know more:)

Well they are forgiving and you do get 3 different hardware configurations it will work with but, I lost my last chance on my new pc after my old one died. I activated windows successfully when not all of my drivers were installed. Then finished my driver installation and bam on next reboot it says my hardware has changed and has been activated on too many pcs. So the only way to activate windows is going through the annoying process of ringing my friendly Indian Microsoft representitive and reading out rediculously large numbers to each other. They should be able to attach your key to your latest hardware configuration.

So every 30 days I reinstall windows.

When did this happen? I thought the hardware changes were fairly forgiving in XP... Tried calling them and explaining the situation?

Just curious to know more:)

Not sure if OEM and retail are exactly the same as I got xp with my new PC so obviously it was OEM and really, who would pay $400 or whatever xp was when it came out for the retail version?

Basically my PC was exactly the same except a hard drive died so I had to replace that so I figure that was the 2nd hardware hash (first registration of the hash was the new pc), then I think I may have added a tv card or something and that went fine and dandy but then I updated the firmware on my burner, yes that's right A f***ING BURNER and windows asks me for activation again so I go meh whatever and activate. What do I see before me? This cd key has been used on 3 or more pcs and is now unable to be activated or some crap. It's the same f***ing pc I installed it on when I bought the damn thing, only difference was the hard drive and perhaps 1 or 2 new firmwares.

I read the OEM stuff was more or less tied to the motherboard which I'm quite happy with and thought as long as I didn't change the mobo/cpu/ram everything would be fine but it seems that if you change a number of devices, or even their bloody firmware, it wants to be re-activated.

yeah, GG ms, I won't be buying their s*** ever again. I bought windows 95, 98, 2k and xp, but f***ed if I'm going to buy vista unless it's on a laptop where the hardware can't ever change.

Tried calling them and explaining the situation?

I could, but what happens in the future when I upgrade my s*** again? or a new firmware comes out that fixes bugs/incompatibilities? Why should I jump through hoops to please them? Companies are nothing without customers and it's high time big corporations realised this, they don't get to dictate what we do, we get to dictate to them what we want and they provide us with stuff else they can go diaf.

caveman eh? at least I don't drive a pintara and pretend it's a skyline

last edited by whoop at 19:20:01 03/Mar/07

I could, but what happens in the future when I upgrade my s*** again? or a new firmware comes out that fixes bugs/incompatibilities? Why should I jump through hoops to please them? Companies are nothing without customers and it's high time big corporations realised this, they don't get to dictate what we do, we get to dictate to them what we want and they provide us with stuff else they can go diaf.

It takes like 5 minutes maximum to call microsoft and activate the cdkey again, something you would have to do once in a blue moon. It's a bit of a stretch to use that as justification for stealing someone else's cdkey or even as a basis for having a go @ Vista/XP. Microsoft do alot wrong, but 1 of them isn't by trying to actually get people to buy their software using a process that isn't nearly as bad as what people like to make out it is.



last edited by Lunch at 21:02:38 03/Mar/07

I think that an OS like Vista is worth the price. $179 for Premium is cheaper than many motherboards.
For a critical component you'll find is is one of the cheapest.

It's almost certainly not worth the price if you already have an existing operating system. It also might not be worth the price in the long run for a heap of other reasons, like you're are locking yourself into Microsoft instead of open standards; you're getting all that DRM crap which as perviously discussed puts your system at risk; you're getting an OS with baseline requirements massively above and beyond what you actually NEED to do 99.99% of tasks, etc, etc.

Vista fans, face it: most of the reviews written by people that aren't technically inept are sharply critical of what it offers. Aside from the pretty new interface (OMGZ IT SLIDEZ, it's such a Mac OS X ripoff) and a few new bells and whistles, there's not a lot of reasons for savvy people like us to "upgrade".

Looking at the feature list there's a bunch of decent stuff there, but its all a) stuff that's available open source and free anyway like the new spam filtering in the new email client b) stuff that's there ONLY so they can directly compete with Mac OS X in the home user market (eg, Windows Photo Gallery, Windows Movie Maker, Windows DVD Maker) and c) stuff that's there ONLY so they can compete with Google (like Desktop Search and Calendar).

Frankly the entire thing just seems like a massive catchup on everyone else's feature list without really bringing anything new to the table.

I am honestly not an MS basher, especially in the OS field. I have pretty much loved using MS OSes on the desktop since Windows 2000 which was their first real combination of a rock solid foundation with a decent UI. I still think it's light years ahead of Linux in terms of UI; I cringe every time I see the current Linux desktop offerings.

I would recommend Mac but my first experience with a Mac has ended badly with the thing back in the shop with a bung HDD after only a couple months :) I assume though this isn't a normal occurance and is just bad luck.

Also, apparently this cracking thing is a hoax

It takes like 5 minutes maximum to call microsoft and activate the cdkey again, something you would have to do once in a blue moon. It's a bit of a stretch to use that as justification for stealing someone else's cdkey or even as a basis for having a go @ Vista/XP. Microsoft do alot wrong, but 1 of them isn't by trying to actually get people to buy their software using a process that isn't nearly as bad as what people like to make out it is.

Yeh, but you can only do that AS LONG AS THEY LET YOU. As soon as they stop, you have a $300 coaster.

It takes like 5 minutes maximum to call microsoft and activate the cdkey again

I deleted my long post earlier thinking people would be smart enough to not try the "it's only 5 minutes" knee-jerk response, but I guess I was wrong.

I had to activate 4 times in a month for my legitimate copy of Windows. One was online and the other 3 had to be done over the phone. As mentioned by others, the call centre people were Indian and hard to understand when they were reading out the Activation code (or whatever it's called).

They made a point of asking WHY I was activating and specifically what hardware I changed before letting me reactivate. Ignoring the fact that what I do for study and work involves heavy use (and swapping around) of computer hardware .. if you can't see why these hoops are unwarranted (when they don't really combat mass-piracy), then I can't really help you.

if you can't see why these hoops are unwarranted (when they don't really combat mass-piracy), then I can't really help you.

It sounds like it's you that might need help though. The person you're addressing sounds happy with the current system microsoft have, but you don't. I don't think it's necessarily a knee-jerk response, the process you've described is exactly what I go through when I do it as well, and I don't consider it jumping through hoops, personally.

^ How often have you had to activate and over what period?

I don't think it's necessarily a knee-jerk response

Well if it can be predicted .. down to the number of minutes :)

last edited by parabol at 09:58:52 05/Mar/07

and I don't consider it jumping through hoops, personally.

your tolerance is amazing then!

I think alot of people would rather enjoy it if MS would just realise that they aren't the police of the internet, and go back to writing solid stable os's with solid features. They have written some great software, and i own all my MS software that i use because i can now afford too.

I'm not entirely sure why companies still bother with the CD key system. It all gets cracked, and fast. Especially for games, so why not cut that cost out of your game, and make it easier to install for everyone else?

The whole activation thing could be aptly renamed to agrivation.

I think it is partly due to research that showed more people purchased the game in the first few weeks if it had a CD key like system. The companies are well aware that the games get cracked, they are just investing for those first few weeks of elevated sales.

the process you've described is exactly what I go through when I do it as well

I would like to revise my reply.

I guess it's less of a case of "5 minutes" but more of being treated like I've done something -wrong- and have having to explain myself when I change hardware (and give detailed info to back up my claim).

before we had an agreement with MS we used OEM licenses on all our machines at work. We've got machines that have licenses that have been reinstalled and activated a dozen times. It takes 5 minutes to call, say it's the only copy on that machine and that you just replaced a bit of hardware or reinstalled the OS.

It's annoying but it's not a big deal. As for them asking you what changed, I sat and listened to Eds tell them that his dog ate the hard-drive and they gave him a new activation code. so they hardly scrutenize your responses.

How often have you had to activate and over what period?

3 times in a day, another 3-4 times in the space of a few days, and other isolated occurences here and there

your tolerance is amazing then!

I work in the same office as you AND your hairspray - anything is a piece of cake after that

being treated like I've done something -wrong- and have having to explain myself when I change hardware (and give detailed info to back up my claim).

yeah I have to admit the first time I got asked that level of detail I thought it was a bit rude

So what jim means to say is he is wrong, what we really need here is rukh to prove it.

It's annoying but it's not a big deal. As for them asking you what changed, I sat and listened to Eds tell them that his dog ate the hard-drive and they gave him a new activation code. so they hardly scrutenize your responses.

Yeh, but you gotta think about the resources it takes them to actually manage that entire system. Each time they do it, its a real live human mouth on the other end of the phone that needs to eat. The infrastructure they have supporting this stupid thing - which really just annoys legitimate paying customers - must be pretty immense. And how much piracy does it actually stop?

Well if the only way to hack Vista/XP is through brute force, I would think this activation stuff is doing its job.

humans don't necessarily need to eat, it depends on whether they're employing people who want to continue living or not

Well if the only way to hack Vista/XP is through brute force

It's not the only way. There are instructions flying around on the interwebs with drivers that trick Windows into thinking you have an OEM license. Never has to be activated. I'm not supporting nor condemning it .. just thought I'd bring it up to show that Microsoft's anti-piracy measures generally aren't very effective.

To show that I'm not completely anti-microsoft: if the next version of Windows came with a hardware dongle that:

1. Was stable (no driver crashes or glitches)
2. Allowed me to 'move' my Windows license by inserting dongle into my new PC.
3. Didn't get in my way or require manual activation.
4. Actually prevented piracy instead of just annoying legitimate users.

.. then I don't see why I'd have a major problem with that.

last edited by parabol at 20:58:09 05/Mar/07

the missus sent me this - vista apparently really cracked this time:

http://newtech.aurum3.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=536&Itemid=18

the missus sent me this - vista apparently really cracked this time

That's exactly what I was referring to in my post before yours.

I deliberately didn't want to post potentially illegz0r links :)

wellll....

i thought you were referring to just xp hacks, if trog et al decide this is not kosher, then nuke the post.

personally i thought that vista would take a lot longer than this to be cracked :o

ouch. just read up on that crack. sucks to be ms.

there is an article on APC site about it

http://www.apcmag.com/5512/pirate_crack_vista_oem_activation

Bills just fightin from inside the establishment now that he's set

I agree with Moo...

and for the record, There is no limit to the number of computers you can network with XP Home. There is a limitation on connecting to Domains, but considering its rare for a home user to set up a domain anyway, thats fair enough. There is also a difference in power management, so you might get 10-20 mins longer battery life in pro...

jim said dong

when you have like 11ty billion people all trying to crack 1 thing, especially a brand new micrsoft product... it was never going take long

The most pirated OS in the world is the most used OS in the world. They put these anti piracy measures in to stop the casual user. I don't beleive they've ever genuinely tried to stop the hardcore hackers, nothing like what they've done with the Xbox 360 at any rate.

Another person pirating Windows is another person not using a Mac or Linux.

activating your os is retarted

no wonder i never bothered

I've heard that if you get hold of a real oem cd key and just use the phone activation they will give you an activation code