I don't really want to start the whole debate about smoking and what not, just wondering the technicalities of smoking laws in restaurants.

My parents just got home from dinner and told me that people were seated at dining tables in the open air and were smoking. After the meal my mother told the waiter that they really enjoyed their meal and service was great, but that they should have told the people to stop smoking and wouldn't return because of it. The waiter replied that it's up to the discretion of restaurant owners and that the law doesn't officially start until midyear.

Any one know for shizzle?

yeah there's still some areas at restaurants in open air where you can smoke. perfectly legal afaik

I thought there was a 'No smoking where ever food is served' law in place already?

no, it's "no smoking in area where food is served with a knife and fork".

other than that, game on. that's why bars/cafes that serve food during the day outside, no smoking. but come 9pm, or whenever they stop serving knife and fork food (ie, change to wedges and s***), then you can smoke.

no, it's "no smoking in area where food is served with a knife and fork".

Fine, I'll carry a knife and fork everywhere I go.

It can double as a weapon.

last edited by parabol at 00:05:25 25/Feb/06

your parents are whiny bitches and that waiter sure served them! EL OH EL

man smoking is the pits.

i dont smoke but cmon, what ever happened to the non smoking and smoking areas in restaurants? is smoking considered so moraly reperhensable (spelling?) now that they are banning it by law at food joints? i couldnt give 2 s***s about the person next to me smoking, much less someone smoking outside in the open.

i couldnt give 2 s***s about the person next to me smoking, much less someone smoking outside in the open.

Watch it man, I heard passive smoking kills and is far worse than what people breathe on an every day basis.

last edited by Hashy at 04:39:42 25/Feb/06

as opposed to walking around thru our lives passively breathing car exhausts - I'm going to laugh my ass off the day the insurance companies realise this as a way to bump-up people's health insurance


you could get rid of smoking tomorrow and you'll still have a danger you're powerless to save yourself from. get used to it

last edited by koopz at 09:50:06 25/Feb/06

ive grown up with smokers my whole life and im fine. id also like to know how this smoke apparantly is more dangerous to other people than to the one actualy smoking.

apparently the smoke that smokers exhale contains all the bad s***. when we inhale the smoke we get all the bad s***.

as opposed to walking around thru our lives passively breathing car exhausts

Cigarette smoke sets off my allergies and f***s me up straight away. Car exhaust doesn't.

That's all I need to know to stay away from smokers.

Actually ravn0s, its more the unfiltered smoke coming off the end of a cigarette as it burns.

I was lead to believe that a certain portion of outside area is to be set aside for smokers a certain %. However, the law is pretty contradiciting. It also states that your not allowed to smoke within 2-3m of anyone eating a sit down meal with knifes and forks!

Go figure! Anywayz, bring on 1st of June. No more dirty faggers in clubs/pubs/resturants or entertainment areas.

I think it comes down to common courtesy myself. If you're seated next to someone who's eating, try and hold off on lighting up until after, or even politly ask them if its ok if you light up or not.

Thats incorrect eric the red. All the Law states is a certain % of the restaurant area has to be no smoking and only outdoors can be smoking.

No offence billy but thats pretty snobby and rude of your parents. Who doesn't know the smoking laws anyway. TK i disagree. If everyone is a paying customer, under current legislation they are perfectly within there rights to light up outside in the designated smoking area. If they dont like it, they can move elsewhere.

I think it comes down to common courtesy myself. If you're seated next to someone who's eating, try and hold off on lighting up until after, or even politly ask them if its ok if you light up or not.

Mmm, I agree with TK. If someone's eating, it really is only the polite/respectful thing to do. I don't usually care if someone smokes...but when I'm eating it just really puts me off my food. There are smoking/non-smoking areas though to remedy this issue so there really shouldn't be that much of a prob anymore.

Thats incorrect eric the red. All the Law states is a certain % of the restaurant area has to be no smoking and only outdoors can be smoking.

Yeah, that's what I thought too.

there is a limited area where these people can smoke and your parents aren't even willing to let them have that. arseholes

last edited by hast at 16:17:28 25/Feb/06

there is a limited area where these people can smoke and your parents aren't even willing to let them have that. arseholes

No, not really. They wanted to sit outdoors without the smell of smoke whilst they were eating - nothing wrong with that.

Perhaps they could have just mentioned this though when they made their booking so that they could have been assured a seat where they could be away from other smokers in the area/or they could have just asked to sit somewhere else.

I think ppl just really need to learn to get along. At least they were polite about it though.

It's a filthy habit and it should be f***en banned, period.

Mmmm, well, yeah - I agree that smoking is a filthy habit (and not only for health reasons - it's really quite off-putting to me). You have to respect ppl's right to choice though - that attitude doesn't help. Ppl really just need to learn to get along...

No offence billy but thats pretty snobby and rude of your parents. Who doesn't know the smoking laws anyway.

Cearly from this thread alone, not everyone knows the smoking laws. My parents weren't rude and didn't argue, but felt it was the restaurant's duty to stop people from smoking. Obviously had my parents been aware that it isn't an enforced rule yet they wouldn't have eaten there in the first place.

TK i disagree. If everyone is a paying customer, under current legislation they are perfectly within there rights to light up outside in the designated smoking area. If they dont like it, they can move elsewhere.

They are in their rights and it is perfectly legal, but it still would be courteous if smokers didn't smoke around others. Who doesn't know that people hate smoking around food anyway.

Not going happen, grow up and learn you can't make everyone love each other. It's a nice idea, sure, I used to think that way myself when I was younger, but then I lived some life and realised it's a fairy-tale.

You wanna talk about people's rights? Passive smoking kills people, so I don't see your point at all. What about the non-smoker's rights? I'm 100% behind them not choosing to eat there again.

And I used to be a smoker and I hated smoking around non-smokers cause I knew how foul it was, and I did my best not to. I wouldn't ever smoke around people eating. It was my problem, not something for them to put with.

Not going happen, grow up and learn you can't make everyone love each other. It's a nice idea, sure, I used to think that way myself when I was younger, but then I lived some life and realised it's a fairy-tale.

True Gimpy. It's inherently human to be selfish (and I am being serious - it's an innate survival thing). On the same token though, it's also advantageous to get along with other ppl. *Just* because not everyone gets along 100% all of the time, it doesn't mean that they can't AT LEAST make an effort and try. Otherwise, ignore the other person/s. Sorry Gimpy, but it's *exactly* your attitude which gives me THE s***s. It's not fairytale thinking - it's simply a matter of trying to get along (won't work 100% of the time, but ppl should at least try...).

You wanna talk about people's rights? Passive smoking kills people, so I don't see your point at all. What about the non-smoker's rights?

We live in a society which accepts smoking, AMONGST other toxic gases (like fossil fuels for eg). It is basically collectively decided that the costs (to ppl's health and whatnot) is relatively insignificant in relation to the benefits of technology, for eg. cars, factories, computers, etc, etc. EVERYONE has to accept the quality, or lack thereof, of the air which we breathe (particularly in city areas)...
That's life.
The best thing ppl can do who are really concerned about the quality of the air they breathe is try to avoid extra causes of air pollution, like smoking.

I'm 100% behind them not choosing to eat there again.

So am I. Freedom of choice. Moving on.

And I used to be a smoker and I hated smoking around non-smokers cause I knew how foul it was, and I did my best not to. I wouldn't ever smoke around people eating. It was my problem, not something for them to put with.

Well that's very considerate of you Gimpy. I'm glad to hear you've quit though.


last edited by Agent 99 at 17:12:13 25/Feb/06

last edited by Agent 99 at 17:13:25 25/Feb/06

Gimpy

you have a crybaby about smokers, but your a major pisshead yourself.

I suppose you are one of those really intelligent people who dont realise that if/when smoking is banned, all those stupid f***ing govt depts who dont want to be out of a job will start banning the piss in the same way.

whilst I dont smoke, I am with the smokers. each to their own.

intolerant fool.

SCoggex, the point being made in this thread that you have obviously missed is that smoking isn't "each to their own". By someone choosing to smoke, they are affecting people around them who choose not to smoke=(

Sorry Gimpy, but it's *exactly* your attitude which gives me THE s***s.

:) Well allow me to retort!

We actually live in a democratic society, where majority rules, and I'm sure the majority would say smoking where food is being served is wrong and should not be allowed. We don't have to accept it. And it's not life, life is when you actually do something about things that upset you, not just go, stuff it, that's life. But it's *exactly* THAT attitude which gives me the s***s.

SCOGGEX

I'm not even going to bother replying to your drivel. You got nothing.

:) Well allow me to retort!

lol. Bring it on!!! >.< :P

We actually live in a democratic society, where majority rules, and I'm sure the majority would say smoking where food is being served is wrong and should not be allowed. We don't have to accept it. And it's not life, life is when you actually do something about things that upset you, not just go, stuff it, that's life. But it's *exactly* THAT attitude which gives me the s***s.

Ok, I see where you are coming from. And I agree...we DO live in a democratic society and ppl need NOT be complacent - if they have an opinion I think they are entitled to share it (as Billy's p's did). Complacency is one of the few things that s***s me too!

HOWEVER, my point was that I believe that the majority would actually vote to allow smoking in RESTRICTED amounts of restaurants - and that THIS is life! I don't like smoking; in fact, I am repulsed by it. But I think ppl should be allowed to smoke after/during a meal when they are out and socialising. HOWEVER, I ALSO THINK that they should ensure that they aren't disturbing other ppl - they should at least do the polite thing and ask if others close by mind if they light up...even if they are out doors. (My point being in the vein of, "with rights come responsibilities"...)

Anyway, that is all. I think I have made my point. You're entitled to ur opinion too though :).

Billy,

I didnt miss the point, but in an ideal world they would legislate against people like Gimpys parents from reproducing as well as banning smoking in eateries.

Whilst its a nice thought, it wont happen and I can accept the fact that hypocritical arsewipes will continue to be born and do things like post emo s*** on forums and smoke at their tables near me in restaurants.

hehe you're a feisty one, very cool

Yeah well, my opinion was simply that smoking is a filthy habit and should be banned. I still feel this way, your opinion didn't help. :)

SCOGGEX

You always try and put me down, but I really don't care, cause you don't f***ing know me and your opinion just flows right off my back. You don't count. If you're jealous or got a low self esteem, I dunno?? maybe I f***ed one of your girlfriends, I'm guessing here.. Go try and bait someone who cares.

I've never once even attempted to insult you, you know why? Cause I just don't f***ing care about you. OK? And fwiw, you totally missed the point because you're an abusive c***.

Say you have heard of sheep, and some are injuring themselves falling from a cliff. Simple solution to protecting your investment is to fence it off. Obviously the sheep are too stupid to make the right decision so why give them the choice?

AHAHAAHAH.

And if there should be any legislation against people reproducing, it should be your parents. It's people like you that ruin the world, not opinions from ex-smokers saying smoking is bad, because I've done it, and I've realised it's a bad thing and quit. I fail to see how that is hypocritical. Then again, I fail to see ANY intelligence in ANY of your posts.

Nah, not funny hey. You've pissed me off, thanks mate, enjoy your bad karma.

you whiny bitch

gimpy wins!

I don't see why his parents are rude. They are simply patrons with the same 'rights' as those who smoked. They don't be going back and made it known. Why is that rude?

http://www.health.qld.gov.au/atods/tobaccolaws/documents/29198.pdf

o smoking in area where food is served with a knife and fork

how about chopsticks and a spoon?

Interesting. Here in WA it's still legal to smoke in an outdoor area at a restaraunt. Come midyear, however, smoking will be banned in all indoor public spaces. ie no smoking in pubs/clubs/restaraunts whatever. BRING IT ON. I hate nothing more than going to the pub and coming home smelling like an ashtray, not to mention the effects of passive smoking...

not to mention the effects of passive smoking...

Becoming a whingey bitch?

During my holiday, I walked into a bottle-o and purchased some wine. During my 3 mins in there some people where smoking in the loading dock. When I got into my car my girlfriend noticed the smell of smoke on me instantly. The smell was physically making me ill, when I got home I had to change shirts.

3 mins of being near smoke for 30 mins of sickness and being uncomfortable for both myself and my girlfriend.
However it wasnt the fault of the smokers, they didnt know I was there. Just dont think that the smoke dosn't affect others, as it probably affects more people then you are aware of, for longer then you think.

You always try and put me down, but I really don't care, cause you don't f***ing know me and your opinion just flows right off my back. You don't count. If you're jealous or got a low self esteem, I dunno?? maybe I f***ed one of your girlfriends, I'm guessing here.. Go try and bait someone who cares.

Wow, if you really didnt care, why post with so much emotion. Why even reply to him?

"I believe that the majority would actually vote to allow smoking in RESTRICTED amounts of restaurants"
yeah makes sence but people have to work in this enviroment too.
just make cigs go up in price by 20 % annually ,hahah let the smokers pay the tax ,while i get tax cuts.

To summarise the views put forward i agree on everyones right to choose about being around smokers. But I still think the current law is the right one. Come july 1st smoking will be banned in all indoor venues.

When it comes down to the crunch about 25 % of the outside area is smoking leaving alot of room for non smokers. So if they do not like passive smoke and feel the "right to choose" then choose a seat indoors or away from smokers. Its pretty easy. If your in a packed restaurant and have to sit near a smoker then respect there rights as well, as they respect yours by smoking only in the designated area.

If I am correct outdoor smoking areas will still remain after july 1st.

I went out for dinner last night and we were seated in the outside section, and people we lighting up all around after their meals and even before their meals.

I couldn't give a f*** if it's indoor, outdoor, it shouldn't be allowed, and even when I was a smoker, I'd never lit up like the selfish c***s were last night. At the end of the night I said, yeah lets get out of here, I'm sick of f***ing passive smoking and some guy turned around and look at me, but quickly turned back around when he saw how angry I was.

Got home, had sore eyes, stunk, and had a mild headache. And the whole time I'm thinking, I'm missing Onyxia for this s***, wtf, never socialising again.

How the f*** can someone smoking put you people off your food?
Maybe if they were eviscerating themselves and spilling their intestines on the floor in front of you I might understand some of your weak stomachs and being "put off".

But cigarette smoke? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

believe it or not but the smell of smoke makes some people sick... and uncomfortable, which would in turn put them off there food.

If they dont like it, they can move elsewhere.

That's what gets me, though. Why should people who don't have a filthy habit that costs them ridiculous sums of money have to move for the sake of someone who'd prefer to pay someone who doesn't need the money to slowly kill them?

As for the "atmosphere is worse than cigarette smoke" argument - there was a test done in Italy, I believe it was, that proved that - were they in the same quantities - cigarette smoke would actually be more lethal and kill you faster than diesel exhaust.

Exhaust fumes and so forth have become a necessary evil. Cigarettes are unecessary, and only serve as a way to exploit people stupid enough to pay to die. That may seem like a melodramatic way of putting it, but think about it - what good do cigarettes do anyone?

People smoking puts me off my food. It happens quite easily, actually Loki. As a smoker (which I know you are - a little illogical given your chosen profession, really), despite what you may think, your olfactory and taste senses are dulled. For a non-smoker, the cigarette smoke gets caught in your throat, makes your eyes water, and yes - it can make you queasy. The food doesn't taste as good because the scent of tabacco and various other gases emitted by cigarettes permeates everything around you.

Even if it doesn't actually make people sick, it is hugely off-putting, and it's perfectly understandable to think someone would be put off their food by a person who believes that serving their addiction is more important than the comfort of those around them.

/rant

last edited by amyescence at 18:36:03 26/Feb/06

I'm sick of f***ing passive smoking and some guy turned around and look at me, but quickly turned back around when he saw how angry I was.

lol.

I hate nothing more than going to the pub and coming home smelling like an ashtray, not to mention the effects of passive smoking...

I couldn't agree more with that statement plus many others in this thread.

Smoking is bad not only for the smoker but everybody around them. So why does anybody do it? I would really like a smoker in this thread to say why they do it and what made them do it in the first place? Don't give me any of that it calms me down crap because their are many other ways to calm down. Besides getting smoko breaks every two seconds thus getting out of work (which you could easily do just as well if you got a coffee or snack) what other benefits is there to smoking? I mean you have to spend so much money and get hardly anything in return. One negative side affect of these smoking laws is the fact that smokers are thrust outside together - brought together by the immense disastisfaction of everybody else in society - so we are sort of bring together an enemy. (divide and conquer anyone?)

I really can't wait till the new laws are brought in, besides the fact I don't drink I really dislike going out to clubs/pubs because of the smoke. So after reading the drinking thread I'm more inclind to suck up the fact I don't like drinking and go out but I'm not prepared to suck up the fact my lungs are being destroyed. Sadly, society has permitted smoking inside venues for too long and even though smokers will be banned from smoking inside, venyes will still smell of the stuff from all the years people have been smoking in them.

I don't think your parents were out of line to want people to not smoke outside. A benefit I didn't think of before would be smokers get all the good spots in resturants. Why should non-smokers be shoved inside and miss out on the views? Sure non-smokers can put up with the smoke and sit outside by why should we?

last edited by Triamks at 20:43:20 26/Feb/06

Here in NSW, the new law re: smoking is that no cigarette smoke can enter a non-smoking area. There is a $5000 fine for the pub/club if this law is broken. If I had my way, no one would smoke and all would be well. However my bro smokes and it pisses me off that his lungs and throat are probably getting s***ter by the day. The smell of the smoke is extremely repulsive too, even worse when myself and my clothes smell like it too.

It's also a big turn off, as if some chicks needed more reason for guys not to like them, they go ahead and shove copious amounts of s*** down their throat 20 times a day. Today I saw a hot chick at work and was thinking she looked aight, then she lit up and my penis died a little inside.

I agree, Seven. Smoking is unsexy.

I'm in the process of getting Groydis off cigs - it's a long hard effort though. But hell, my health has dropped since I started living with him, my hair permanently smells like an ashtray, my skin has gone beserk and due to allergies I have an ever-present tightness in my chest.

I know it sounds like I'm being a whiny bitch there, but surely I should be more important than an addiction.

Do you suppose they could set up clinics like they do with H users for methadone... wean smokers off and give them the support to stay off? Obviously it'd cost money in the outset, but smoking-related illness has GOT to be costing us more....

Smoking sucks. I at quit the start of the year after a couple years and in retrospect I couldn't think of a dumber thing to do. My health has increased 100 fold as I can now breathe well enough to exercise regularly. I don't smell like smoke all the time and I don't wake up with a headache and a f***ing horrible attitude every morning until I sucked a couple back. Cost me money I never really had to waste on such things as well.

Quit! Do it!

All of you people need to stop the bitching. I work in a pub where smoking is still allowed indoors and passive smoke is not as bad as your saying it is gimpy. You may have a specific allergy to smoke but in my experience i don't see people experiencing symptons as bad as you explained.

Although Gimpy i understand your discomfort with passive smoke, in the future try to sit in the other 80 % of the restaurant that is non smoking. Your rights are met and the smokers regardless of your opinion have rights as well. So really there is no point complaining about it, its not going to change anything.

If your that bitter with the world that you don't want to socialise because of passive smoke then good luck to you. I think its the entirely wrong attitude to have. Smoking is allowed outdoors in the designated area, so get over it.

And your trying to tell me your a past smoker and you can't even cop a bit of smoke without have a teary? whatever.....

last edited by Tiny at 00:13:39 27/Feb/06

So really there is no point complaining about it, its not going to change anything.

Dumbs***. The whole reason these new changes are being implemented are because people have complained, so obviously complaining does change things. Ever heard "The aqueaky wheel gets the grease"? It works everywhere, for good or bad and it's working in the smoking debate.

And your trying to tell me your a past smoker and you can't even cop a bit of smoke without have a teary? whatever.....

The fact he is a former smoker and still agrees with the debate from the non-smokers' point of view grants gimpy even more respect. Way to over exaggerate on the emo crap, but if someone can realise and admit that they have been wrong and should not be subject to that crap anymore then more power to them.

I don't like hanging with people who are merely chatting over a ciggy, doesn't make me bitter with the whole f***ing world. As has been said here, I'd have no problem with smoking and smokers if they didn't force others to get in on the act too. Next time someone has a hotdog or a meat pie mate, I hope they cough and spit it up on you too, see how much you enjoy the experience then. But remember, you're not allowed to complain about it if it does happen, cause it won't change anything. Now that's the wrong f***ing attitude to have if you ask me.

He clearly doesn't agree with other side of the argument from his comments. I am not saying that is a bad thing i am mearly trying to present my viewpoint to make sense of this, as this is a forum of discussion.

Also, unless they do change current legislation, smoking is allowed in designated outdoor areas. Thats the way it is. I think the legislation is fair.

You should look up the definition of emo Seven because that is not emo. Since when do smokers force people to get in on the act, personally as a smoker (yes i understand your POV on smoking), I obey the law, if i am in a social situation i usally step away if the person is a non smoker and I don't really know them that well. In a restaurant situation i smoke if my table is a smoking table, thats the way it is. I don't smoke where i am not suppose to beaches, within 5 metres of an entrance to a building and so on..

Don't get me wrong here i am not having a stab at you, all I am trying to say is, I think the smoker should have some rights to. If you want the government to introduce more anti smoking legislation, how about they cut the tax or ban smoking. They would never do this because they are making a s***load of money out of it. Its double standards for the government to say "hey you can't smoke anywhere" but we are still going to tax the f*** out of cigarettes. Do you see my point?

In response to your hot dog scenario of course i would be upset if someone spat a hot dog on me, wouldn't you? Knowone is forcing you to get in on the act of smoking, if you don't like it MOVE AWAY!!! to one of the massive areas where people can't smoke. The tide is in your favour buddy and if you don't see that then don't come here and state obvious falsehoods. Next time your in a group of people who are smoking move away! Theres plenty of places you can move to.

I respect the non smokers right to be free of passive smoke and you should respect a persons right to smoke. There is a system in place to protect these freedoms.

i had breakfeast acouple of weeks ago with a few friends. we wanted to sit down in the outside area at this particular cafe, i noticed that their was an ashtray on the table, thought it was a bit strange thinking that smoking was banned where food was being served. we stupidly say down as there wasn't anybody around at that stage that was smoking.

i admit, we f***ed up.

when a couple near us lite up, we decided to move to the "non-smoking" section outside. we didn't make a fuss, we didn't have anything to mover other than oursleves, we didn't give them dirty looks. however the wind still blow their smoke in our direction. we decided to move inside. however this couple than decided to have a giggle at our expense while staring us down as if we did the wrong thing by moving away from their smoking. in our society, non-smokers seem to have to justify our actions of not wanting to smoke.

personally, smoke tends to give me an instant head ache, dull taste buds and a dry throat.

last edited by Kaizen at 09:23:56 27/Feb/06

People smoking puts me off my food. It happens quite easily, actually Loki. As a smoker (which I know you are - a little illogical given your chosen profession, really), despite what you may think, your olfactory and taste senses are dulled.

A bushfire or backburning is just as bad, people don't seem to care too much.

They backburn the forest near here and there used to be a foundry nearby, maybe i'm used to it. But unless you have asthma I think it's 90% psychological.

Also, haven't touched any for awhile.

Un-licensed

From 1 January 2005, outdoor tables that are within 4 metres of the entrance to any non-liquor licensed food or drink business must be no-smoking.

From 1 July 2006, non-enclosed eating and drinking areas where food or drink is provided as part of a business, must be no-smoking.

Licensed

Two thirds indoor area and poker machines no-smoking
From 30 September 2005, the indoor area and number of poker machines that must be no-smoking increases to at least two thirds.

From 1 July 2006:
* 100 per cent of the indoor area including 100 per cent of poker machines must be no-smoking, and
* outdoor eating and drinking areas where food or drink is provided as part of a business, must be no-smoking.

A government clicky

last edited by Obes at 10:26:24 27/Feb/06

All of you people need to stop the bitching. I work in a pub where smoking is still allowed indoors and passive smoke is not as bad as your saying it is gimpy.

A big part of the reason for banning smoking at restaurants, pubs and clubs is to protect staff like yourself. Give it a couple more years and people who have never touched a cigarette will start suing the pubs and clubs they used to work at because they have respiratory problems. I am all for venues getting reamed financially for letting people smoke around staff members.

You may have a specific allergy to smoke but in my experience i don't see people experiencing symptons as bad as you explained.

I have a specific allergy to smoke - it's called cancer.

last edited by Hardball, Billy at 11:12:29 27/Feb/06

Smoking is a dirty habit that adversly effects all those around them, there are no positives from it at all, other then "looking cool" to other smokers.

Banning of smoking in public places is something that will happen in every first world nation eventually.

As a smoker, be greatful that they are letting you smoke in private still.

Give it a couple more years and people who have never touched a cigarette will start suing the pubs and clubs they used to work at because they have respiratory problems.

I believe this has already happened in a few places Billy.

I respect the non smokers right to be free of passive smoke and you should respect a persons right to smoke.

Then how does this work Tiny? I do respect a person's right to smoke as long as it doesn't affect me, but atm, it does. Yet how does me enjoying dinner in a restaurant not smoking harm someone? The way things are happening smokers are going to have two choices, #1 - Give up smoking. #2 - Keep smoking but do it at home, because very soon there won't be any places left in public for you to do it in.

http://images.ausimages.com/upload/2006-02-27/smokersrights.jpg

They backburn the forest near here and there used to be a foundry nearby, maybe i'm used to it. But unless you have asthma I think it's 90% psychological.

Hayfever, actually - and believe me the reaction can be just as bad. And I would argue strongly against the proposition that it's a 90% psychological thing - even if I spend a night out having a great time and not thinking about the people around me smoking I wake up with a sore throat, itchy nose, red eyes and hair that smells like a tobacconist.

The thing that's 90% psychological here is the addiction to smoking.

They backburn the forest near here and there used to be a foundry nearby, maybe i'm used to it. But unless you have asthma I think it's 90% psychological.

thanks for the info, next time they backburn in my general area ill make sure not to set up a table and eat as i may be put off my food.

TK and Kaizen

Your experiences are interesting and i totally understand your position.

Keep in mind however most smokers are extremely polite and understanding of your situation and if you ask them they will oblige to your requests...I know i would.

I don't like it when a person has one bad experience with a smoker to then turn around and condemn everyone else because they smoke.

The re-occuring theme in this thread seems to be everyones discomfort with cigarette smoke whilst eating. I realise now my earlier comments on legislation were incorrect, seems that smoking will be banned in all areas were food is served on July 1st.

* outdoor eating and drinking areas where food or drink is provided as part of a business, must be no-smoking.

So hopefully this will adress some of the concerns expressed by Gimpy and others.

It's all good Tiny, and I see where you're coming from as well. It seems that all it takes is to have one "rotten apple" and the rest are condemed, and I guess I'm guilty of that opinion myself. As I said though I respect a person's right to smoke, and if I were to join a crowd where people were smoking, then thats my problem as I was the one who joined them. It's just some people don't take others into account or become rather defensive if confronted. Repeating myself here but if every one took a little more common courtesy, we wouldn't have these problems.

Keep in mind however most smokers are extremely polite

Why ?
I mean as far as I can tell they are people with an anti social habit that has negative consequences both for them and anyone around them, and they repeatedly inflict their habit on others with out first checking if all those who will be affected are ok with it ?

So, how does this make them extremely polite ?

I don't know how 'anti social' smoking is...


A lot less than WoW

looks like NSW may be banning smoking while in a car

Link

Yeah difference is pillsy... wow doesn't cause cancer or have any passive effects for random by-standers.

Smoking in a car with passengers/kids is wrong, but if they are on there own I see no problem, as long as they don't throw the butt out the window.

First line of BH's post for this thread:

I don't really want to start the whole debate about smoking and what not, just wondering the technicalities of smoking laws in restaurants.

lol.

nonetheless, been an interesting read.

Obes I don't know if you remember meeting me, i remember lighting up away from the group at that bbq, at no time did I inflict my "habit" upon you. Wether or not you have copped passive smoke in the past you cannot generalise and say all smokers are a******s, thats biast. You need to read through this thread before sayings like that. Also look up the definition of anti-social.

Also TK, i agree with you but if it was my car and i was driving, I would smoker no matter who was in the car. A person can do whatever they want in the car, if the passengers don't like that they can catch a bus.

I would smoker no matter who was in the car.

Even say a 5 year old child?

Tiny... I never said you.

You said "most smokers".

And my experience with most smokers is some what different to what you obviously encounter. And as an ex-smoker, when I smoked I never gave a damn about non-smokers.

As a smoker I doubt you even notice the smokers when you go to a pub/restaruant.

[quote]Also TK, i agree with you but if it was my car and i was driving, I would smoker no matter who was in the car. A person can do whatever they want in the car, if the passengers don't like that they can catch a bus. [/quote]

Interesting you claim a drive can do anything in the car ... Murder ? Rape ? Ok so I am taking your comment to an extreme. But in context ...

Using mobile phones ?
Make up ?
Shave ?
Drinking booze ?
Pick their nose ?
Smoking ?
Eating ?

All of these things are bad habbits for drivers.
Some are illegal... why not some more of em.
*prepares for "but I can do 240k's in a 60 zone so I am gunna beat your head in with a baseball bat" arguements*

*prepares for "but I can do 240k's in a 60 zone so I am gunna beat your head in with a baseball bat" arguements*

i don't think Orb reads qgl! so this is unlikely ;]

btw: damage caused by passive smoking has never been proven conclusively... anti-smoker unfounded propaghanda. :D

you cannot generalise and say all smokers are a******s, thats biast. You need to read through this thread before sayings like that. Also look up the definition of anti-social.

and

but if it was my car and i was driving, I would smoker no matter who was in the car. A person can do whatever they want in the car, if the passengers don't like that they can catch a bus.

Amazingly both of the above were in the same post. NICE WORK!

Nice, somehow WoW got shoehorned into an arguement even in this thread.

Australia's anti-smoking bulls*** is just getting annoying, I feel sorry for smokers I know not being able to light up in purely safe enviornments, such as ANYWHERE on a TAFE campus; non-smokers, get over yourselves.

Passive smoking, oOoOoOoOOo

Some are illegal... why not some more of em.

Because there's such a thing as basic rights. I'm all for protecting kids against their irresponsible smoking parents, but this is too far.

last edited by Hashy at 22:11:56 28/Feb/06

You took what i said out of context. I will rephrase, What i meant was if it was my car, i can make personal choices as to what kind of things people can and can't do.

Which would include things like smoking,eating etc. TK about the 5 year old child, That would be a special circumstance where i proabely wouldn't. But if I am giving a mate a lift down the road, and he tells me not smoke, i Say, My car, you don't like it, get out. Thats pretty much the only time i would.

Stinky stay out of a conversation you know nothing about, My car, is my car. With all the places people cannot smoke now, at least give smokers the right to light up in there own car. That has nothing to do with the other scenarios people have suggested. Think before you type, your just jumping on a bandwagon to have a chop and that annoys when people do that.

last edited by Tiny at 22:53:05 28/Feb/06

Tk just asked that because he has 5 year olds in his car all the time. And a hacksaw.

Shhhh, dont tell fpot.

But hashy what about my basic right to run over smokers ?... I mean I am driving the car I can whatever I want .... right ?

You are retarded Obes.

Obes is only angry because he thinks they are talking about cock smoking.

But fpot I am using the logic provided by smokers in this thread to juftify my actions ? are you suggesting the smokers are retarded ?

also, I don't understand simes ?
Are you saying that I disapprove of homosexual behavior while driving ? ... I do!


But are you suggesting you do approve of it ?

Well I'll make it simple for you Obes.

A person can do whatever they want in the car, if the passengers don't like that they can catch a bus.

A person can do whatever they want, no matter where they are, including all the things you said Obes. But they also must be ready to accept the consequences for their actions. The consequences of smoking in your own car, are that the other people in your car might breathe in a little smoke. If this annoys them, they can catch the bus like tiny said.

Murder ? Rape ?

The consequences of this action are a lengthy prison term.

Using mobile phones ?

There is a fine if you get caught.

Make up ? Shave ? Pick their nose ? Eating ?

afaik, all legal. I guess there is a risk of having an accident which is a consequence to be considered.

Drinking booze ?

Do I really have to explain this one to you Obes?

But hashy what about my basic right to run over smokers ?... I mean I am driving the car I can whatever I want .... right ?

Your basic right to run over smokers still exists Obes. Just as long as you are ready to face the consequences of exercising this right.







last edited by fpot at 17:35:52 01/Mar/06

yeah but fpot... if they change the law and make it illegal... then um .. you have to be ready to face the consequences?

Make what illegal?

Because there's such a thing as basic rights. I'm all for protecting kids against their irresponsible smoking parents, but this is too far.

A smoker's basic rights, eh? Smokers are an imposition on the general community. Why should you have the right to continue an activity that "potentially" (hard scientific proof or not, we all know smoking affects non-smokers in a negative way) harms non-smokers, stinks up the shared airspace (and not just when you're smoking - the smell sticks to you and lingers long after the smoke is extinguished), costs insane amounts of money in the outset, costs others insane amounts of money when you're later hospitalised for a smoking related illness, may well make you infertile (and for that matter, makes your swim team taste DISGUSTING), decreases your general fitness, and makes you unappealing to the people around you?

It's a stupid, stupid habit and I'm all for it being banned completely in public.

Used to be that people intent on killing themselves were locked away in nice white rooms and kept away from the general public... I'll admit, that's a drastic comparisson, but then how sane can someone who sucks cancer into their lungs day in day out be?

People should be free to do whatever the hell they want as long as it doesn't affect other people. Unfortunately it can be argued that pretty much everything you do can affect other people. Smoking in public affects other people negatively. I don't think you should be able to smoke in public other than in designated areas.

I just don't have issues with cigarette smoke, even though I'm a (once chronic) asthmatic and a non-smoker who's pretty sensitive to most things, so I guess it's hard to understand for me.

Can you all honestly say cigarette smoke bothers you, breathing wise, and not just because subconciously you're guided by your (mis?)conceptions about it's "dangers" or otherwise. It's not too nice to be in the car with someone or have the smoke blown in your face, but in most outdoor environments this has no chance of happening.

Banning cigarettes in all public areas? Seriously?

ohh, ny public i mean like places where it would be an issue like bars, clubs, restaurants, beaches etc. (beaches is illegal already, right?) I don't give a s*** if people wanna smoke in the street and stuff. most people are polite about that and stand away from people.

Banning cigarettes in all public areas? Seriously?

Yes, actually. I'd be stoked if they made it illegal altogether but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

screw that. the government shouldn't have to baby sit people and make sure they don't act stupid. as long as it doesn't affect other people who gives a s***.

easiest solution to stop people from smoking in public.... start fining them for littering. i cant remember seeing the last smoker that has actually butted out in a "butt out bin" (what ever they are called). i am sure some do though.

i am sure having several new government employees walking around places like the cbd following smokers and fining them as the drop their butts would have a few effects:
1. smokers will have their normal standard comback, its my body i can do what i want... blah blah blah
2. cost smokers a fortune in not only smokes but now fines. perhaps some might give it up
3. smokers might actually clean up after themselves. at least we wont have so many butts in the gutters.

"Can you all honestly say cigarette smoke bothers you, breathing wise, and not just because subconciously you're guided by your (mis?)conceptions about it's "dangers" or otherwise. It's not too nice to be in the car with someone or have the smoke blown in your face, but in most outdoor environments this has no chance of happening." i feel ill the next day (like a hangover) if around smokers for awhile.
most smokers dont really give a s*** they r addicted and they need a cig.

start fining them for littering

You mean like they've been doing for like 10 years?

Amyescene, is this just pent up bitterness because your BF is/was a smoker?

So people should be allowed to torture animals ? it doesn't effect anyone ?

And what about those pesky annoying rules about what you can build where ? Why can't I build a brothel right next to the primary school ?


Society has rules, once upon a time making people work for no money was legal (slavery). People were killed for sport (Gladiators/circus). Killing people of certain races or religions was legal and encouraged (crusades/any number of wars). At a guess I will say one day maybe not soon, you won't be able to smoke tobacco.

If society decides that smoking is unacceptable, so be it. You can choose not to be part of the society. You have a right to choose.

christ obes for an experienced troll that really was a pathetic attempt.

So people should be allowed to torture animals ? it doesn't effect anyone ?

um the animals?

And what about those pesky annoying rules about what you can build where ? Why can't I build a brothel right next to the primary school ?

it affects the other residents etc.

If society decides that smoking is unacceptable, so be it. You can choose not to be part of the society. You have a right to choose.

there are lots of things that are socially unacceptable but are still legal. your such a twat.

So people should be allowed to torture animals ? it doesn't effect anyone ?

It affects the f***ing animals, that's why it's illegal.

At a guess I will say one day maybe not soon, you won't be able to smoke tobacco.

If the smoking in cars law is passed it'll open the doors to completely ban it in public, then probably in homes. Then it may as well be f***ing illegal.

Edit: You're

last edited by Hashy at 21:41:20 01/Mar/06

But smoking effects people that have to smell it, breathe in the smoke etc etc
It effects people stuck in a failing medical system as people clutter it with self inflicted smoking related diseases ... that effects people

The only people who can't see that are you.

Yes I am trolling but only becuase the logic you are all using is broken, and the funny bit is, its when I apply the same logic you are all using that you all cry I am being stupid.

ps. animals aren't people. So are we now saying effects any living thing ? ... we all gone hippy vegan tree hugger now ?

Smoking in public affects other people negatively. I don't think you should be able to smoke in public other than in designated areas.

who said that.. oh wait.. it was me.

ps. animals aren't people. So are we now saying effects any living thing ? ... we all gone hippy vegan tree hugger now ?

No. It's just inhumanity to animals.

But smoking effects people that have to smell it, breathe in the smoke etc etc

Oh noes, minor discomfort. Still awaiting the ban on playing s***ty music in my vicinity.

It effects people stuck in a failing medical system as people clutter it with self inflicted smoking related diseases ... that effects people

You're right, we should ban dangerous sports too, and loud music! Heaven forbid society isn't babied by totalitarian laws.

\/ \/ Oh snap \/ \/

last edited by Hashy at 23:12:33 01/Mar/06

last edited by Hashy at 23:14:39 01/Mar/06

It effects people stuck in a failing medical system as people clutter it with self inflicted smoking related diseases ... that effects people

I distinctly remember a thread about drug legalisation where you said smoking is fine for the health system cause the taxes on it cover the health problems to society. Nice to see you can switch sides on arguments for the sake of trolling you hypocrit.

Why should you have the right to continue an activity that "potentially" (hard scientific proof or not, we all know smoking affects non-smokers in a negative way) harms non-smokers, stinks up the shared airspace

I don't smoke anymore, I haven't touched any for a few weeks now, and prior to that cut back heavily from the norm, which helped make quitting entirely more easy. (It's impressive how far away you can actually smell it from when you no longer smoke).

I have no problem with someone who wants to smoke nearby [Outdoors], at uni if someone is smoking and I don't like it, I get up and I move, in outdoors environments its usually so weakly concentrated that it's not that unbearable and the health effects are so minutely negligable.

Any kind of 'smoke' is going to irritate your airways and lungs, it's all foreign and unwanted, whether it's dust, cigarette smoke, house burning down, bushfire, heavy industrial smog etc.

Your 'right to not have to put up with your health being effected by someone elses habit'... That is what most of your argument is based on?
I agree entirely, but passive smoking happens to everybody occasionally, unless you live with smokers/hang out with smokers, it would be so infrequent and so unconcentrated that from a HEALTH point of view, it's effects would be negligble and not worth worrying about.
:: A Smoker who quits, after 5 years their cahnces of contracting lung cancers halves, after 15 years they have virtually identical chances of contracting lung cancer as someone who has never smoked in their life.

Which leads to the other point - Confined places where the smoke is obviously going to be more concentrated and in your face, it's not acceptable and shouldn't be forced upon someone, this is generally why smoking is banned indoors in public places!
It it's also why it should be banned inside all clubs/pubs/casino's/restaurants as you are COMPLETELY correct - you are NOT going clubbing to hang out with smokers; it's not a venue specifically for or design for smokers, and you shouldn't have to put up with it...

The only real complaint in outdoor public areas is the smell, and that's starting to get about as picky as saying you should be banned from public places if you tend sweat lots and smell.

last edited by Loki at 00:41:04 02/Mar/06

This thread is going around in circles. I am over trying to reason with people on this issue. Amy Essence, you are a retard.

/end

This thread is now over. All retards please exit at signed door.

The doors locked dammit and people are smoking in here...let me out!!!

I doubt I would ever have said smoking in public is fine anywhere in the last 10 years Taggs (ps. quit smoking 11 years ago).

I might have said if they put enough tax on any drug to cover the medical costs fallout then sure let em do whatever in private, legalise it and save money on the legal system. Hell that goes for any drug. Actually most of the other reacreational drugs do have some medical use/benefit. Tobacco is kind of unique in that it has no societial benefit, other then "the cool factor".

The point I was making out of all this was ...
1. People who smoke in public or in anyway inflict their habit on the friends/family/guests are inherently not polite.
2. Smoking is not a right.

1. People who smoke in public or in anyway inflict their habit on the friends/family/guests are inherently not polite.

You drive your car and emit gasses to the ozone layer which in turn, harming me by getting skin cancer.
Put on sunscreen says you? Move out of the cigarette smoke says I.

As I said, unless you live with or hang around with smokers or work in a pub/club etc. (Which is where it becomes your perogative to tell your friends/housemates to please move) the frequency and concentration that you would passively smoke is of negligable to no health effects.
I don't smoke and I've been to uni every day this week where quite a few people obviously smoke, so far I think I've breathed in only enough cigarette smoke to barely smell it in well over a weeks time.

You really are crying for the sake of being a baby now.

Loki, you can't justify one wrong by using another wrong.

You drive your car and emit gasses to the ozone layer which in turn, harming me by getting skin cancer.
Put on sunscreen says you? Move out of the cigarette smoke says I.

They are both seperate issues and need to be addressed seperately. If you want to winge about car exhaust then start another thread. When it comes down to it though, society has grown to rely on cars - you can't go to the shops on a cigarette. If you could I might be more tolerant towards them.

And it could grow to rely not so heavily on them too with better public transport infrastructures.

And it's not justifying one wrong with another, it's a comparison, as a non-smoker, who doesn't hang around, live with or work where there are plentiful smokers (pubs/clubs good e.g.) then the amount, concentration and frequency of cigarette smoke you are inhaling is casuing about as much Health damage as the s*** that's in the air you're breathing right now anyway.
Passive smoking is bad... if you're sitting right next to a smoker.... frequently

And where was I justifying it, re-read my post, I stated it was fine in a large outdoors environment but indoors it should not be allowed.

last edited by Loki at 17:36:09 02/Mar/06

Cars and automobiles can be argued provide some societal benefit. ie. people need to get some where and they do.

Smoking ... no benefit. As Billy pointed out, you can't drive ciggies to the shops.

Thats the difference. Its a weigh off between benefit and consequences.

And its all besides the point. The point was smokers are not mostly polite. If they were people would never have had to lobby for anti smoking laws in the first place. And there is no earth bound god given inalienable right to smoke. Society lets you do it ... for now


ps. I have looked at getting public transport to work, but it is neither finacially sensible nor a wise use of time. I'd have to leave before 6 and I'd get home just before 7. Plus I'd have to stop all the other things I do. Maybe if the respective governments fixed that ...

Thats not to say I never go for a drive for pleasure, I do. But I do try to minimise its impact on others (ie. I don't do burn outs in someones culd-a-sac or sit in the local maccas carpark).

Before it sounds like I'm biased - I don't sit around at maccas carparks etc. in/with my car so (Albeit I have been to Harry's Diner a few times to see other peoples cars, I parked out the back and walked - never did burnouts etc. and got overpriced milkshakes from the cafe [giving them business]) :-

I don't believe police should be giving people fines and deliberately and maliciously defecting people for meeting at a maccas carpark etc.
For two reasons: It brings business to the McDonalds and secondly - for the exact reason you just stated, I'd rather these ""Hoons"" meeting in a carpark, with their cars... PARKED, and just showing off their rides etc. than out doing Burnouts and Racing.
Police presence should be there to fine/book people who do the wrong thing, that's definite.

Maybe the council/government should allocate these people a carpark that they are ALLOWED to congregate in (with one or two) cop cars patrolling/keeping things in check.
A simple one-strike at these venues would rule out the 'posers' from the 'enthusiasts' - get caught doing something stupid at this venue and your car is impounded.

For ANYTHING to work, including smoking, it needs to be accepted but limitations (e.g. smoking in large outdoor areas are ok - indoors/confined spaces/pubs & clubs are not and carry huge fines) ... (e.g. Specified car meeting place is ok and guarantee's of no defects/fines etc. if you play by the rules - those who don't lose their car).

Saying "You can't do this" when people want to, just makes them angry and rebel. Saying "you can do this, but keep it within these limitations" makes people happy because they can do what they want without being harassed.
Designated smoking areas are a good example of it.
You are not allowed to smoke around hospitals except designated areas - with fines if you don't follow the rules etc.
As long as there is a convenient PLACE for people to do what they want, it's not a problem.

Smoking is a right, it's your body and you can do what you like with it, just as to drink alcohol is currently a right, you're more likely to get run over by a drink driver, 'started' and beaten up etc. than you are to get ANY kind of health implication from cigarette smoke as a non-smoker (again, provided you don't live with/hang out with/work with - smokers, to the point you may as well be a smoker yourself).
Your not going to contract lung cancer from walking through the occassional, mostly dissipated cloud of cigarette smoke whilst walking through the city.

last edited by Loki at 18:07:25 02/Mar/06

I guess come July 1, the right not to have to inhale cigarette fumes will be taken one step further. Fortunately the majority don't share your views:p

Shut up you idiot billy, stop f***en winging about cigarettes, and find something else to complain about. Next time i see you, i will make sure i blow a big cloud of smoke at your face.

Blow smoke up his arse, I think up the arse would be better than in the face.

If I had to take one for the team, I'd be opting for it in the arse.

I ain't blowing smoke up your arse though, that's disgusting.

lol@Tiny.

I dig your sig, but you're a POOF!