There you go astro, but only because ek let me have it :D

f***ing important 4th test coming up. Australia incredibly lucky to scrape away with a draw in the third. They missed their hitout with Scotland but had a game vs. Northhampshire where both Hayden and Clarke got tons but they were against s***ty bowling lineups so I guess they don't mean much.

Both teams would be pretty tense in this match obviously after the extremely close nature of the last two matches. It seems the team batting first always goes after it hard to put the pressure on the other team early, almost brazenly saying to them "yes, there will be a result in this match". Luckily for the Aussies we were saved by rain (:D) in the last match but if they don't score some f***ing runssoon the ashes is gone :(

England will win possibly the next series in Australia and their next home ashes for sure.

Also must mention Katich's 63 should keep him in the side, and Langers 86 is a good performance.

Hoping that Tait will be included although knowing the selectors they'll probably include Kasper..although I doubt either will perform as poorly as Dizzy.

Aussies to win 3-1.

A little hiccup after a disasterous 10 days. Nothing to be worried about, all will return to normal.

Had glen not stepped on a cricket ball we'd still be talking 5-0 imo.

Something this series has shown is just how classy a competitor Shane Warne is. Man of the series for sure.

another vote for tait

i'm gonna go against my previous impressions and vote Kasper.

Tait is too raw and offers little variation to Lee.

not to mention his history in English conditions is laughable at best.

Had glen not stepped on a cricket ball we'd still be talking 5-0 imo.

And if Warney had not stepped on some stumps.

you blame batsmen for batting errors and bowlers for bowling errors.

Warney did more than his fair share in that match.

tait was carving in the tour game
i like hostile

http://www.abc.net.au/sport/content/200508/s1442744.htm

we already have one erratic quick, we don't need two.

taits in

I think that's a mistake if for no other reason than the fact that they're introducing a rookie into what may be the biggest test of the last decade or so. I know he's good but that's a lot of pressure to put on someone that relies on raw pace and can spray the ball.

I heard on the radio this morning that McGrath might be missing this one - is that right?

McGrath had a scan on his right elbow after complaining of pain in it during training. It could be nothing, but if he breaks down mid-test leaving Lee and Tait as the only pace bowlers there could be trouble. But you don't want to leave out someone like McGrath in such an important test so it's a tough decision as to where to go from here.

So excited to see Tait in the team, hopefully he'll do a tonne of damage!

So excited to see Tait in the team, hopefully he'll do a tonne of damage!

0/100

Due to his history in England I can't say I expect much, Would be awesome if he rolled though. Be interesting to see

0/100

Surely he can't be any worse than Dizzy.

On another note, Looking at the proposed teams today on baggygreen & it looks like McGrath might finally get his wish and bat higher up than 11th :p

10 Glenn McGrath, 11 Shaun Tait.

it looks to be a distinct possibility

Bad news guys, McGrath has been ruled out of the 4th Test :(
Looks like Kasper will take the 3rd fast bowling spot. That will mean Tait and Lee will be the opening bowlers and that "could" be a problem. Lee has shown he can be expensive and the fact he will be the senior fast bowler despite missing over 18months as perenial 12th man. Tait is the debutante and as such will be nervous, he can be anywhere from 5-45 to 0-126, a pretty much unknown quantity.
Kasper will be called upon to do his usual roll - workhorse. He has to bowl to contain the batters, put pressure on them so Warne can spin his magic fro mthe other end. This is a role the Kasper will excel at (fortunatly) Infact he would have considered himself unlucky to miss a spot in the first place.
This is all irrelevant if Australia's batsmen can't put the runs on the board. Our bowlers can defend a total of 100runs, no matter who is their.
Either way, this is a HUGE test of Australia's character and i am looking forward to start of play.
EDIT - Seems Tait will be the change bowler, a mistake i think. Tait is a new ball bowler, so give him the new ball. Kasper is known to bowl better with a slightly worn ball. I hope this isn't another Ponting mistake.

last edited by Merlyn at 19:34:34 25/Aug/05

Well I guess it's now a bowl off between Kasper and Tait for a spot in the 5th test & i'd say they're both gonna be fired up and looking for wickets.

Dead set shame about McGrath though, gonna be a tough test match.

I thought exactly the same thing (re Tait) Merlyn. Ho hum. Lunch on the first day and we're in the s*** :( 18 no balls ffs!

18 no balls in a session, what the f***!?

should be freaking 2 wickets, but o well s*** happens, and i guess the aussies are finding alot of that

How has tait bowled? i havent seen him yet ....

why should it be two wickets? lee stepped over the line by like 5 inches on that noball playon

ponting is starting to piss me off, why on earth wouldn't you give tait the new ball and let him at em?

do they not practice bowling WITH A NORMAL crease at training as to make sure their run-ups are spot on????

in the news footage yesterday tait looked positively scary in the nets (when he felled justin langer)

he mustnt be very tall, else i woudl think he would be getting close to lee speeds

his action is quick as

f***en, we've got nothing

pray for rain :/

Someone listened to you Heardy. Windy and pissing down.
We are copping the weather that is coming from England (across the North Sea) and it absolutely sux. I just watched a forecast and it isn't good.


last edited by Merlyn at 22:28:11 25/Aug/05

So excited to see Tait in the team, hopefully he'll do a tonne of damage!

0/100
f***pot

ahem?

tait, pick of the bowlers for the day
nice swinging yorker

wtf, ricky ponting bowling?
we're in trouble

ponting strikes!

MP Vaughan c Gilchrist b Ponting 58

WTF! Ponting found the edge and it carried?

gilly was keeping on the long on boundary :P

Baggygreen is loving it!

55.2 Ponting to Vaughan, OUT: perfect delivery just short of a good
length, outside the off, moving away just a shade, Vaughan plays
at it and only manages an edge to the keeper!

The gamble paid rich dividends when Vaughan, just as he appeared set for a major innings, feathered a catch through to Gilchrist. Ponting's strike broke a stand of 67 between Vaughan and Pietersen but whether the move was a captaincy masterstroke or act of desperation is still open too debate. One thing that wasn't expect this summer was the sight of Ponting and Warne having bowled the same number of overs on the opening day of a Test.

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/52700/52793.jpg beaten by pure intimidation?

Is gilly pissing himself with laughter behind ponting??

nah looks like he waiting for the ball to come back down

i think it's a combination of the two.

I agree pretty much entirely with Spidz.

guy bowling at 93 miles per hour doesn't get the new ball? I mean wtf....

Kasper is a known old ball bowler and Tait is a fiery quick hitting 150+ km/hr, and ponting OPENS with Kasper?

also I'd be pissing myself laughing to if I'd just picked up the wicket of the English captain.

I hope they give the ball to Tait and Lee to start the day, the only reason I can think of not to open with both is they wanted to use the same end.

That or given that the bounce and carry wasn't very good at the start of play they went with as much movement as they could get with Kaspa.

Yay Lee just got Pieterson, come on boys into that tail!

last edited by Fade2Black at 19:48:58 26/Aug/05

we've still got nothing :/

Yep really getting stuck into that tail now.

considering freddy was as plumb as you'll ever see for 8, i think the luck just aint going to ever go our way.

Warney has been the most unlucky with the umpires this tour, I swear they got it in for him....

last edited by Fade2Black at 00:01:17 27/Aug/05

i think he f***ed bucknors wife/sister/daughter or a combination of all 3.

motherf***en hayden!

and punter got rorted!

we'll be struggling to avoid the follow on is my tip....

and marto got rorted!!!


I tell ya what we get no f***en 50/50 calls but the pommies are getting ones that aren't even out

GIVE US SOME f***ING LUCK c***S :p

ponting's one was ok

So hows that weather forecast looking?

langer gone now

that rain is the only thing that will save us

warnie to get that century?

maybe tait a ton on debut :p

martyn alwaysa gets f***ed on 50 50 calls...its f***in rediculous

Australia must have a new sponsor for their pads.

haha bah :)

clarke gone, 5/99 we're in deep trouble.....

Funny... Flintoff and Jones were both out long before they made any meaningful runs, no luck, marto hits the cover off one and gets given. No excuses for the rest of the batsmen though, f***en pathetic.

Not much more could go right for england, they're getting the decisions and we've really only had McGrath for the first test, if they can't win the ashes now they never will.

Time to see if Australia have some heart.

these aren't 50/50 calls going against us guys. they're just f***ups pure and simple by the umpires.

they say you make your own luck but this is becoming rediculous.

If you honestly think about it the Aussies have been getting a lot of those calls going their way at home for a while now. It'll be a real test of the side with their backs against the wall to see how they deal with it going the other way.

Rain or England 2-1

man, we are in so much trouble
didnt avoid the follow on, even after lee nearly smashed a 50 (couple of sixes out of the ground)

the aussie batsmen stink

If you honestly think about it the Aussies have been getting a lot of those calls going their way at home for a while now. It'll be a real test of the side with their backs against the wall to see how they deal with it going the other way.

Solution is act like a baby when you take a stupid single and get run out :D

chakas, finally someone that speaks it down the line.

ive been arguing with fpot for years about the not so 50/50 calls at home, and although i dont think the umpires have been doing the best job, its amusing to see the aussie supporters suddenly arc up over a few calls not going their way when they are losing

also, poor form from ricky, wtf does he expect, simon jones is injured and in hospital, and he complains about getting run out by a sub. i hope he gets a hefty penalty.

17 years since australia have followed on, omg :o

and finally, i still stand by my opinion that this is the worst australian test side since border took over from kim hughes (if i remember that changeover correctly). from border through to steve waugh, there was no question about the aussie team being awesome, and suddenly, its just a mashup of players that could do well but just arent intimidating as batsmen. you dont sit there thinking 'omg how are they going to get steve waugh out' its moreover, heh, how many balls before ponting gets done while falling over, or that langer puts one to bat pad, or hayden slashes at one and gets done at short extra cover or in the gully.

theyve been worked out, and when a good bowling attack is putting the screws in, they are crumbling. i really hope england seal this one up quickly, and go to the 5th test ready to take it 3-1.

and one more thing. can someone find me any stats on how many calls this series have been wrong? i dont think its much more than in a usual series, unfortunately when you are supporting the team who the decisions are being made against, its easy to pick at it.

michael holding did an amusing stats compilation in a test series in australia a few years ago (i cant remember for the life of me who it was playing against aus - but back then it could have possibly been 2 aussie umpires, or maybe just the one)

but in the series, a total of 30 bad calls were made (includes giving out when not out, and not out when out). 5 were against australia. 25 were against the opposition team. s*** happens. the international supporters deal with it, why cant the aussies!

also how loud is that crowd with their songs? i've never heard any aussie crowd so vocal

the barmy army? rivalled only by the steel drums of the west indies or the trumpeters of sri lanka :p

This ashes is impressing me so far.
We're winning!

Nothing quite as fun as rubbing into everyones face at work how England is looking like they're going to win the ashes for once.

Nothing quite as fun as rubbing into everyones face at work how England is looking like they're going to win the ashes for once.

Probably also nothing you'd ever experienced before!

Clarke to score about 280ish and Katich about 180ish.

When Holding did that comparison was well after test matches began to have two neutral umpires Tung, I see your point but I think at the end of the day the umpires f*** up too much regardless and in the showpiece of cricket that this is meant to be, its a bit ridiculous.

The umpiring shouldnt decide the series... but flintoff makes 8, Jones 20 or whatever he was, and England wouldnt have made 300, and then we go from there. England should win this game and then ashes... but its not like they've overcome great adversity to do so, with McGrath's injury and Australia's inability to bat or hold catches. To be fair, they haven't outplayed Australia in any department except the bowling.

Also, I dont have fox and watch it on sbs... how f***en annoying is boycott and grieg when they get together? f*** me. When Bell smashed one to Gilchrist, Grieg wouldnt shut up about how he walked.. the ball only deviated two feet you wanker.

there have been plenty of of poor decisions dished out to tourists over the years in australia as well as ones dished out to aussies (billy in '91 against the windies to lose by a run anyone????)

however, besides a couple I remember against Tendulkar and 2 to Lara, none have been as crucial as the multiplae f***ups in consecutive games in this series.

Not to mention that people say they weren't mentioned but the horror decisions Tendulkar copped a few seasons back was widely criticised by the Australian media (not the team :P) The LBW to the full toss that MacGrath bowled to him that hit him on the shoulder comes to mind. thing is, it was 2-0 in a 3 test series when that decision was made....

Bad decisions happen all the time, its the crucial ones that people remember. No matter what you say or who you support, you can't argue that Flintoff going for 8 and Martyn x 2 and Ponting in the last few matches hasn't made an obscene amount of difference. Aussies were given out at Lords off no-balls 3 times in that first innings, it was mentioned on about one line because the decisions ended up being inconsequential because we handed their arse to them. It's when decisions grossly affect the outcome of the game that people remember them. Eg. Goal umpires get plenty of decisions wrong over the course of an AFL season, but everyone remembers the point the Saints kicked against the lions last year that missed by two feet and they won the game by ....you guessed it - one point. Or the Rocca goal in 2002 grand final - had that been in the first quarter it would never have been mentioned...

Go gilchrist!

he's due, time for another 202* off 150 balls ala SA a few years back.

will probably smack a straight drive into katich's pads at the non-strikers end and Bucknor will give him out LBW !

wow, australia looking chumped now

sorry isaac i didnt realise it was more recent than that.

the one that comes to my mind btw was south africa series in australia in 94. darrell hair who continued to be one of the most biased umpires australia has had, basically won the series for australia with his down the legside lbw calls against south africa, and his adamance to not give aussies out caught behind.

i thought the umpiring so far hasnt been the best, but its part of the game. there are better umpires out there but this sort of stuff does happen and it is part of cricket. otherwise the 3rd umpire would be used for everything. there are calls for it and against it

One day the Australian side might be so bad that we'll have to be jealous of and hate the new best team as much as tung does to make up for Sri Lanka :(

Yay, another shocking decision at a crucial time for australia.

Too high AND pitched outside the line of leg stump. That's beyond a f***ing joke.

last edited by fpot at 23:06:16 28/Aug/05

Haha, over the top and outside leg...thats cool I guess :/

i think you just need to appeal, it's not even worth discussion anymore.

Martyn, Ponting, Katich and Gilchrist all out to shocking decisions in the one test match.

not to mention the 15 man english side who go off for a shower and s*** after every bowling spell.

c'mon guys we are just whinging, its part of the game, isn't it tung



lets not forget the match fixing side of things either....

That Katich decision is probably the worst lbw decision I have ever witnessed.

nup, ponting on debut LBW for 96 was the worst I've seen.

Martyn in the 3rd test was worse also, the only thing stopping his nice inside edge from going for 4 was his pad, suddenly he is out LBW!

The flintoff one for 8 not given comes in at about the same level.

actually scratch that, the worst I've seen was the MacGrath beamer that hit Tendulkar on the shoulder as he tried to duck it is the worst I've seen.

lots of contenders in this series though.

if we get a lead of 120 then appeal say third ball of every second over, we could be a chance.

yeh I have never actually seen that ponting 96 one.

We're going to lose big time. :(

Plus Jones (England) sucks and he shouldn't be in the English side.

McGrath (I think) got Verinda Sehwag off an inside edge and its one of the worst I've seen, mostly because Sehwag didn't move his feet and slashed at it, the ball was a good foot outside the offstump before it ricochet into his pads and was given out.

Yay Taits in now :-(

Oh btw the first two wickets Flintoff got in this series were no balls, the commentators hardly mentioned it. Also we've had 3 denied due to no balls, yeah sure ours were no balls so no wicket but SO WAS FLINTOFFS.

I get the feeling cricket commentators like League ones are told not to harp on about umpiring decisions because it looks bad for the game, I'd rather they did and it forced the umpires/refs to fix up THERE game.

Australia to lose in 4 days after following on.

If we don't blood someone who can and is scoring runs, i.e. Hussey then its likely to be 3-1 to the umpires, I mean England.

hussey MUST come in for Hayden, the rest of the batsmen have all scored half centuries and all of them have copped shocking decisions.

Hayden hasn't even looked like scoring a run.

also, umpires can;t even count to 6 !!

gg

5/103

Lee just got pieterson, first ball back :)

still a chance! all we need to do is get that flintoff mug out (a genuine edge preferably...no disputes over those) and we are into a tail (without simon jones too i might add)

edit - OMFG there goes flintoff!!
edit2 - AND NOW JONES (im getting over-excited, i just feel it :( )
edit3 - yep, all over :(, and now the poor decisions seem that much more important ><

last edited by NaK0r at 03:01:37 29/Aug/05

last edited by NaK0r at 03:11:05 29/Aug/05

last edited by NaK0r at 03:32:54 29/Aug/05

Ah well, was a good game.

If only the batsmen could show the guts that Warne and Lee have been.

wow. that was closer than it shouldve been.

Absolute top shelf performance from Warne. He is probably the second greatest cricketer ever to play.

Australia to win at the oval :)

okay, my opinion.

katich was hard done, but didnt look convincing. i dunno how many more he wouldve scored.

flintoff shouldve been out according to hawkeye, but generally if hes that far down the pitch, it is a touch and go. although the umpires couldve kept some consistency.

australia never really looked like winning this, until the last innings. england looked on top of everything until the last innings.

i may have made statements in the past regarding a lot of stuff that i find biased or just downright wrong, but i dont whinge when things go against me, i take it and get on with it. and what does match fixing have to do with anything heardy?

spidz, counting to 6 has always been difficult, i remember peter parker letting a 10 ball over go once :p but it was interesting listening to the 'new rules' for the ashes, ie where the 3rd umpire can make a call regarding any wrong counts for an over

and fpot, you have heard my reasons far and wide regarding my non support for australia in cricket. its not about them being the best, its about them being an arrogant pack of wankers :p i really dig michael clarke and i hope he does really well, but apart from him the rest seem meh.

anyway, we can have this discussion again and again but still. let bygones be bygones, ill support sri lanka + team playing australia, you all can support australia :p

ps fpot, msn

yer, good effort from the aussies to get that close

how good is warney?
get him up here, i want to boof him

all we have to do is pull it together for the last game
oohaah will be back
give hayden a rest

and bobs your unkle
we're home and hosed!

katich was hard done, but didnt look convincing. i dunno how many more he wouldve scored.

is that a joke? He hadn't looked like getting out prior to that, he was an absolute rock. Not to mention the full face of the bat that marto got on his LBW in the first innings...

oh well, will make it all the more sweeter with a victory at the Oval.

Well that got a lot closer than it should have and for the first time in a few days there is hope that the ashes aren't gone.

we just need clarification on the new 'bat before wicket' method of dismissal and when it should be applied.

the katich one was just amusing, i think the umpire was too busy fiddling with his ball counter and wondering why it only counts to 5 to notice where it pitched and where it hit.

he grinded his way to 50, and looked tentative. he wasnt playing stupidly, just not confidently. thats why i mean he didnt look convincing.

and yeah spidz i actually think he missed all of the delivery bar teh point it hit katich, he looks up sees katich squared up and the ball hitting pad and goes, omg what do i do :o

5th test should be interesting. you cant say this test has been won on just bad umpiring, its good england bowling and batting, and moderate (the only spark was warne) aussie bowling and s***ty batting. if 6 bad decisions were mad ein each innings against their top batmsen i can understand them being miffed. but there was oppurtunity after oppurtunity for them to build and go on, but they didnt.

Great performance by warne and lee. I dont normally sit there watching an entire innings but when it gets as close that i always tune in. That being said i thought the aussies had no chance when england had something like 50 runs to win and 6 wickets in hand left. Lee and especially warne really applied the pressure at the end there.. pitty it didn't pay off.

Also what about lee's reaction when he dismissed pieterson on the first ball of that over.

"PRAISE ME MWAHAHAHAHA".

last edited by Booyah at 10:39:47 29/Aug/05

you cant say this test has been won on just bad umpiring, its good england bowling and batting,

I agree totally. However, it would be nice to know what might have been had Flintoff been out for 8 and Jones out for 34. Thats takes Englands total to sub 400 at least.

Then you take the Martyn decision and think 'oh well he might have got to 50, he might have been out next ball you never know' Then you take the Ponting decision in the first innings "well he just got 150 in his last innings, he was cruising in the second innings and scored 48 before being run out, so the bolwing wasn't really troubling him, lets assume he would have got a minimum of say 80 which is his average over the past 12 months"
then we have Katich, even if he hung around for another 20 balls (likely he would have lasted longer) that still would have altered the way the tail played and probably ensured a minimum 20 more runs.

Take all that into account and its a VERY different game, you can never be sure what would have happened, but it would be nice to watch a contest completely unnaffected by poor decisions. Like I said, Ponting or Martyn could well have been out the very next ball, same with Katich - we'll never know. We do know that Flintoff scored 94 free runs and Jones 51 free runs - take those off the total, assume everything else stayed the same and England are 7-130 chasing 270....

ponting was out legitimately, you cant say that they shouldnt have had a fielder on for jones who was in hospital.

flintoff, jones, katich yes i agree. martyn, yeah who knows with him.

but chasing 270, australia would not have put warne in so early, there isnt as much pressure when you are playing a team that feels a bit more comfortable (australia's desperation really put the pressure on) the game changes again to a completely different scenario.

take australia for instance. chasing 300 in a 4th innings, they cruise so comfortably (usually). chasing 180 and youve got a game on your hands, the pressure builds, and its turned around.

im not sure which school of thought i lie in, whether to have everything judged by 3rd umpire or have the element of human error with the normal umpies out there, but i have not seen a single test where there has been flawless work by the umpies. this is rpetty shoddy though, and i really hope that ali dar or whatever his name his gets a bit of a talking to.

interesting to see ponting got around 10k fine for his huge outburst and katich got a whopping 6k for his minor dissent... if katich got 6k i wouldve expected around 15k for ponting, it really was bad form imo

I usually don't watch cricket, esp. test matches but daaaaaayme that was one awesome match. I stayed glued to the TV until the end :( Paying for it now.....lots of coffee, but yeah goood game.

ponting was out legitimately, you cant say that they shouldnt have had a fielder on for jones who was in hospital.

flintoff, jones, katich yes i agree. martyn, yeah who knows with him.

I'm not talking about the runout. He was clearly out. I'm talking about both Martyn and Ponting and the LBW decisions in the first innings off inside edges. In addition to the one Martyn almost middled in the third test second innings!

A for the fines, dissent is far more serious an offence and I would have expected a bigger fine for Katich. Ponting just pointed out what he's been saying all series - when a player goes off the English 12th man should be fielding, not some Jonty Rhodes hotshot. He just chose the wrong time to do it and came off looking like a sook. showing dissent versus questioning the sportsmanship of opposition tactics as a captain are two very different things. Pontings fine would have had more to do with his outburst up to the English balcony than anything said on the field.

While katich was incredibly unlucky he needs to follow the example set by players such as Tendulkar, Sehwag, Lara and our own Martyn or risk being branded a petulant child.

aah k, i cant remember that ponting first innings one sorry, but yeah its been shoddy with the inside edge decisions.

well ponting did seemingly mouth off at bucknor/ali while stnading there before walking off, thats why i thought he would get more. and yeah, when you get given out you go out. its only going to make matters worse.

the 5 ball over thing just sprung to mind again, with brett lee looking quite pissed it was called back (shaun tait had to face one more). but thats legit, the rules were modified for this series.

follow the example set by players such as Tendulkar, Sehwag, Lara

but have they ever had the ashes on the line and been the last "batsmen" out in such a huge test? $6000 for letting the umpire know hes wrong is a joke especially after the game/series that this one has had, and it wont do anything to improve their umpiring if they think they are just completely untouchable

tendulkar and lara have both been in very similar situations. its not the ashes but they are big crucial games. its about professionalism and this is a sport which does not tolerate any form of dissent. and surely gilchrist counts as a batsman :p

*note* i cant remember if katich was out before or after gilchrist...

last edited by Tung at 12:18:26 29/Aug/05

but have they ever had the ashes on the line and been the last "batsmen" out in such a huge test?

nope, but they've had the Worrell or the Border/Gavaskar on the line. I can't remember a test where there has been so many crucial decisions against the one side, but I can remember plenty of crucial decisions for and against Australia over the years.

and surely gilchrist counts as a batsman :p

you haven't been watching this series have you?

All things even out...

...Craig McDermott was given out in Adelaide, when he wasn't...then a few years later, Mark Waugh was not dismissed when he hit his wicket clearly..


England to win the Ashes 3-1. :(

both the macdermott and kasper decisions were incorrect and we lost the billy one by 1 run and the kasper one by 2 runs. However, the difference is - both of these 'looked' out in real time. Completely understandable that the umpire thought billy hit it and nobody could be expected to notice that kaspers hand wasn't gripping th bat when the ball caught his glove. these decisions both clearly cost us a test match, but were nowhere near as bad because as i said above, both looked out to the neutral observer and it's quite understandable for an umpire to have agreed.

However, the Katich and Martyn x 2 decisions in particular as well as the G.Jones and Freddy decisions are difficult to comprehend. I was surprised Harmison even appealed for the Katich one, how any umpire can justify giving that out is beyond me. I can understand incorrect decisions when they look like they're out in 'real time' as thats all the umpire has to make his decision. It's the ones that are just plain ludicrous that really make you wonder why these guys are still umpiring at that level.

In no way shape or form do I sincerely believe that there has been deliberate poor decisions directed towards Australia, but something must be done. Buvknor has been making poor decisions for a few years now and this Alim Dar guy should be at square leg with shorts on at the local U/12's with a bat in his hand for knicking the stumps back in.

I'd far prefer Shep (a pom) to umpire in this series than these blokes.

Speaking of poor decisions, how about the not out LBW decision on warne, bowled by giles (the one where they scampered through for a single, strauss effected a run out but jones broke the stumps early)

At least the poor decisions are consistent!

point me to the bad decision, it pitched outside leg and he was clearly run out but jones broke the stumps early so its not out...just a f*** up, not a poor decision.

spidz you're a crybaby

can someone explain me something? because I seem to hear this a bit. I've heard comment after comment like this (from baggygreen)

this series is now officially the greatest ever to have been played

Since when has this been the greatest series? Is it great because Australia looks like losing for the first time in however many years? I mean seriously, (without being a crybaby) none of the Australians other than Warne have REALLY played to their potential, half of them look out of form...yet england have only seemed to have scraped by for 2 tight wins. Sure they've played well, but they really should've dominated both Trent Bridge and Edgbaston. What's been so "great" about it?

3 close test matches in a row, that hasn't happened for a while.

but for me, the Indian loss and the win in the windies in 1995 are both ahead of this series as far as quality of cricket go. Especially since this series has been tarnished by poor umpiring and the loss to injury of one of the true stars of world crciket.

Could we be witnessing the end of one era and the beginning of another?

It's good to see Australia have some real competition - it'd be boring with us pantsing everyone. That said, I'll pray for a win at the Oval. :)


Should we lose...and it sure looks like we will...how will that affect the team in the upcoming SuperTest series? The rest of the world are lookin' for payback, and damn if they won't be wanting to stick it in and snap it off.

It'll be Lions vs St Kilda all over again... :(

the poms will argue (like boycott already has) that the superseries is flawed because we lost the ashes*. However, no way does one series* entitle them to the status of number one test side in the world. Far from it.


(*assuming we lose the last test which i believe we won't)

Well for us to win there is going to have to be a marked turnaround in our form. Our "batsmen" are going to actually have to bat and score runs and our "bowlers" are actually going to have to bowl England out (for a sub 400 score) for the first time in this series. I hope I'm wrong, but I can't see both happening in the next match.

Unless the Oval curators somehow manufacture a Gabba wicket...


It could be worse. The next test could end up becoming a washout resulting in a draw... :(

are actually going to have to bowl England out (for a sub 400 score) for the first time in this series

have you been watching at all?

Mark Waugh was not dismissed when he hit his wicket clearly..

I suggest you go study the laws of cricket.

cbf reading previous 5 pages, but I think that now that Australia has shown themselves they can bowl england out cheaply (129 - 7 or whatever it was) they will probably improve from the confidence boost.

I'm predicting a 1st test like result.

Next test should be interesting. England have been choking quite a bit when they should've been winning easily in the last 3 matches...now they're ahead 2-1, can they deal with the pressure of being ahead at The Oval?

Warney has been at his potent best.
So has McGrath (when fit) and Lee has looked pretty good at times.

Still don't know why they didn't use Tait/Lee to open with, 155km/hr is at its most dangerous when there is a new batsmen in.....

Btw before the 3rd Test, Warney had more wickets and more runs than Flintoff, vote 1 warney for all rounder of the series, also if Flintoff had been GIVEN OUT LBW to warney, warney would be about 55 runs up on him still and 10 wickets in front as well.

warney to open the batting and the bowling

f***en oath brett, Warne has been the player of the series up until this point. Ponting's use of Kasper to open in place of Tait is mystifying, its almost playing to your weaknesses rather than your strengths to deny Tait the new ball, poor captaincy.

What annoys me the most is that England have had everything go their way, and they're running around talking bizarre amounts of s***, Hoggard's comments that they will be the new Australia especially, a few decisions or chances taken and we'd be 3-0 (undeservedly though) ahead and England's flaws would have been the talking point and not glossed over like they have been, eg Their batting is still suspect, Giles is useless, Jones can't keep, and Harmison hasn't bowled that well after the first test.

Also nice to see Punter come out and fire up about England's rather dodgy practices with subs, despite the fact that he shoulda run harder for that single, its not like Jones woulda run him out, its just unfortunate for him it happened the one time they had a legitimate reason for one, but even then they picked a gun and not a legit 12th man... it'd be like Australia 2-3 years ago taking Dizzy off for a rest between spells to nurse his fragile body and putting Clarke out there instead.

last edited by isaac at 20:22:39 30/Aug/05

I see this sub thing differently. I reckon it is a clever move by England and every team will be copying it soon (Unless there is a rule change)

i agree, but it shouldn't be allowed.

Australia did it for a while then S.Waugh said NO because he reckoned it devalued the baggy green.

All England need to do is cry racism and it'll be sweet they'll ensure the rule stays or gets widened even more so that bowlers only have to come on when they need to bowl.

After all crying racism worked for Sri Lanka!

The only reason I can see for not opening with both Tait and Lee is that they both wanted the same end, didn't actually see who tait replaced but if it was Lee then that'd support that argument.

none of the Australians other than Warne have REALLY played to their potential

donno bout other people, but i reckon brett lee has shined so far this series - with both bat AND ball - imo Australia are VERY lucky to have taken what some perceived to be a risk and include him, more risks like this (ie - dropping dizzy after the 2nd or 1st match instead of the 3rd) and we might still be up in the series

brett it worked because the percentage straightening of muralitharan was the same if not less than those of brett lee and other pace bowlers.

im not saying racism was the way to go about it, but it did get them to look at the actual rules of the game.

they couldnt just ban every pace bowler that has some straightening of the arm upon bowling ;)

brett lee has batted well and bowled reasonably. hes taken some good wickets but has gone for a lot of runs too, so really shane warne has been the one holding australia up with bat, and with ball in both taking wickets and keeping his end of the bargain up in economy rates


also brett, tait replaced kasper early because of kasper getting hit for a few runs. so it was a we hope kasper's experience can keep runs down :/

last edited by Tung at 12:57:29 31/Aug/05

point me to the bad decision, it pitched outside leg

Spidz you obviously weren't paying attention when they replayed the LBW shout. Giles pitched that ball on middle and leg.

I was not talking about the run out whatsoever

last edited by levels at 13:16:26 31/Aug/05

Maybe this article might help

Health fears for English stars
by STAFF REPORTERS

London doctors have confirmed they hold grave fears for the health of several members of the English cricket team in the wake of the Fourth Test at Trent Bridge.

"Frankly, I'm concerned," said Dr Duncan Waring.

"Here are these strapping young men, mostly fast bowlers, unable to go for a single session of Test cricket without needing to dash off to the toilet repeatedly and for long stretches."

Another doctor, Dr Michael Upton, agreed. "No athlete under 35 years of age should need such constant toilet breaks, and certainly he shouldn't be in the loo for up to two hours - or an entire session - at a time.

"I think this clearly points to diabetes, prostate problems and, dare I say it, weak bladders among the English players."

Professor Geoffrey Loftus, chief researcher at the Ponds Institute, voiced his concern. "The incidence of incontinence runs at about one in a thousand among the wider lard-arse British public, so why it's running at something like eight out of every 11 English Test players is a mystery. Unless the English team has been silly enough to dine repeatedly on dodgy vindaloo during the Test, there's no logical excuse beyond serious medical issues."

Dr Waring said he was astonished to turn up at Trent Bridge on the fourth day with Australia batting, to find there was only Michael Vaughan, bowler Freddy Flintoff, keeper Gerry Jones and eight substitute fieldsmen on the park.

"It was strange really. Nobody in the crowd knew any of the substitutes but it turns out one is a crack outfielder for the Boston Red Sox baseball team, several of the outfielders were Olympic 400 metre hopefuls and the entire infield was made up of crack knife throwers from a visiting circus.

"Meanwhile, Harmison, Jones, Hoggard, all the batsmen apart from Vaughan and Jones were reportedly having elongated and sustained toilet breaks. Those poor men must have serious medical issues and should be checked immediately."

Dr Upton said the crowd was particularly concerned that the keeper, Jones, was apparently one of the few English players capable of staying on the park. "Yes, that was a shame. Then again, even though his bladder appears to be alright, I'd be concerned about his eye-sight, hand-eye coordination and basic reflexes," the doctor said.

In unrelated news, leading colostomy bag manufacturer, Hipflask Inc, has been named as the new major sponsor of the English Test side.

hahahah

Watson scored 203* overnight for Hampshire, surely that will get him a start...

Hayden out, Kasper out, Tait out (due to injury).

Katich to open, MacGrath in for Kasper, Watson in for Hayden and to bat 5 with Clarke at 6 and MacGill in for Tait.

2-2 bye bye.

what happened to tait?

also shane watson NEVER performs at the aust level, he is constantly going good in shield/domestic limited overs but can't reproduce that form for aust...

he is a top order batsman - he has played one match for australia where he batted higher than 7 and scored 100* in South Africa. They constantly bat him at 7 or 8 in the one-dayers and also batted him at 7 in his one test match.

Especially in the one-day game he shouldn't bat below 5 because he is a an accumulator not a hitter, coming in at 7 when we're 5-230 after 40 overs he isn't the man for the job...

Have a closer look at his 1st class record batting 4 and filter out the innings where he has been treated as a bowler who can bat a bit.

he just seems to me to not know where is strength is, he isn't good enough to just be a bowler, at times his bowling has looked ordinary at best and doesn't look like taking wickets, but then his batting has let him down too...

He looks like he is going to cry when he is out in the middle as well :p

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see him go well, god knows we need an all rounder, but, as one of the commentators said during the last test to be a good all rounder you need to be able to say you would be picked for both your batting and bowling onn their own merrits, for me its his bowling that lets him down.

It's because down in tas he opened the fkn batting or came in at second drop - and didn't focus on the bowling side of things

i agree, he is not a genuine all-rounder he is a top-order batsman that is a quality change bowler with good pace.

i think the fact that he bowls at all has hurt his test chances in the past, because they have ingored his form with the bat and looked at the whole package.

The reason he focussed on batting when at Tassie was because he was recovering from his back injury and couldn't bowl HeardY! So they batted him at 3 and he scored 1000 Pura Cup runs in a season but was ignored because 'he wasn't bowling'

definately a quality batsman that bowls very quick but with little movement.

Hasn't Ponting and Bucanan basically said dropping Hayden was a no-go and that he deserved another chance?

doesn't matter, captains have been overruled in the past.

Thats why they took selection powers away from captain and coach, because cpatians were making decisions based on emotional attachment to teammates rather than form. Not to mention the fallout between captain and teammate whent he captain drops them...

taits irritated shoulder muscle isnt going to keep him out of this test

if he's not 100% he shouldn't play imo.

You can take risks on people like MacGrath, but not rookies.

Watson!?! That's a 3-1 gimme to England. He is a genuine allrounder all right, one who cant bat or bowl.

can't bat but scored 203* last night against Warickshire whose attack is lead by Ntini and has a first class average of 50? Wish I couldn't bat.

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/australia/content/player/8180.html

not quite an average of 50, however I don't know how recent those stats are, the 203 aint on there, that's for sure

he has made 8 centuries and 16 50's in first class cricket, note the s***ty blowing figures :p

define s***ty bowling figures - strike rate of 50 and an average of 30. Thats pretty handy when you bat in the top order as well.

Considering Bichel, Kasper & Lee are all also around the 50 mark with their strike rates in 1st clss cricket. Bichel having the best I believe.

ok, ok, its obvious you are gay for him

if he is picked as a batsman that can bowl then yes put him in, but I would think hussey and hodge would surely be ahead of him if we were looking for a batter...

no doubt about it, but we desperately need a 5th bowler but can't afford to weaken the batting too much.

in a must win match we must ensure we select a team that can take 20 wickets.

Other options are

Symonds, bowling too weak - similar to Watson with batting ability but can really do some damage if gets going.
Bichel - will ad real depth to the bowling, and is a solid bat with current form on the board. Not really an allrounder, but can certainly bat.
Thornely - not sure why he hasn't had a look in yet, is very solid with both bat and ball, bit like a Paul Collingwood but a better bowler.
Hussey - grwat bat, but another lefty and offer nothing with the ball.
Hodge - next best batting option, handy medium pace but rarely bowls.
White - another legspinner and exceptional batsman, definately blossoming into a quality allrounder, but if you're picking another legspinner it realkly should be Macgill.

Symonds and Hussey over Watson any day of the week.

if replacing them purely for batting, yes.

Having Watson in the side for bowling is stupid. The England batsmen would slap him all over the place.

i'd rather Watson being the backup pace option than Martyn or Ponting - especially on that wicket. thats assuming they pick MaGill.

If the deck warants two spinners and they pick MacGill then I don't think they'll need a third pace option without anyone breaking down.

then you are going to throw the ball to warne/macgill in the 11th over or so.

to me that isn't really a bad thing, but ponting has shown he is unwilling to give warne the ball too early.

Lee is pretty innefective after about 4 overs in a spell...

Righto spidz, we all know you went to Ipswich grammar with Watson, get over it. I suggest we all ignore the schoolboy-idol bias.

Watson is an absolute ball machine, who used to be able to send them down in the 140s but after his injury no hovers in the 130s. He has NEVER got any lateral movement with the ball.

He is a one-day specialist. Just like that symonds - who could forget his 17 ball duck on debut against Sri Lanka.

Never forget that it is very easy to come in at 7 in a one-dayer and chip the ball around to the 7 men riding the boundaries.

As for watson's first class record, I wouldnt read too much into it. The list of first-class run machines is numerous, but only a select few look at home in the international arena. Didnt that Collingwood bash 3 consecutive 100s a few weeks back on the county scene? We all saw how inept he looked against McGrath in the one-dayers.



last edited by levels at 18:20:21 01/Sep/05

last edited by levels at 18:21:03 01/Sep/05

thats got nothing to do with it, we don't get along at all and if I saw him in the street I wouldn't say hello.

one day specialist? far from it, wouldn't even have him in the one-day side, his technique doesn't suit it.

I also disagree with you on your other points, in fact I don't disagree - you're wrong.

Pre his most recent injury be bowled mid 130's and swung it both ways. However, after his 10th back injury, he went to Lillee who put him more front on. He now bowls high 140's but gets zero movement in the air and needs a green pitch for movement off the seam. Your comments regarding coming in at 7 in the one-dayers is useless. I've already said I don't rate him in one-dayers and he's never scored any runs at 7 anyway, so he clearly hasn't found it easy. I believe he is a top order batsman, and should bat no lower than 6 whatever level. His bowling is a handy side show, but not a key feature to his play.

Point is, he bowls high 140's and and is a classy top order batsmen. It's a handy package if you need a backup bowler that isn't just a part-timer. On batting alone, he'd be behind Hodge, Hussey x 2 and maybe Rogers. But none of them bowl and none of them are electric fieldsmen. He's a better bat than Symonds in the extended game, a similar fielder and a far better bowler.

Symonds has played some ODI innings that can only be described as heroic (vs. Pakistan 2003 World Cup for example). I know you think that Watson isn't suited to ODI game but that is irrelevant; Symonds has produced quality innings at international level (numerous) and Watson hasn't so imo I rate Symonds better.

Also he is a 10x better fielder.

last edited by fpot at 20:18:03 01/Sep/05

Symonds could also be the 3rd choice pace bowler or an alternate spin bowler and lets face it, he can't bat worse than Hayden...

i think we're all in agreeance - hayden must go.

I reckon this should be his last test (unless he performs), personally.

normally i'd agree, but its not that he's not scoring runs thats bothering me. It's that he just looks like getting out every ball.

if he performs he will prolly get another 12 months of crap innings before they drop him....

didnt want to start a new thread

Australia is in a sad state...

against Essex, yes ESSEX! our bowlers let them take us on a ride, 4/502 at stumps, with macgill 0/130 off 24, tait and kaspa the only wicket takers, taking 2 a piece

this is all bad leading into the final test, we can't even bowl out a county side FFS! It's only a 2 day match, I hope the batters get some game time....

foxsports link - http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,16487744-5000061,00.html

and the scorecard from baggy green - http://aus.cricinfo.com/db/NEW/LIVE/frames/AUS_ESSEX_03-04SEP2005.html

apparently they deliberately prepared a runway so the aussies wouldn't get any decent practice in.

Essex won the toss and elected to bat first

If Australia won the toss, they'd have plenty of practice for Hayden to have a hit or two...

yeah and the poms let Hayden come out and spank 100 like he did in the tour match between 3rd and 4th test and selectors fall for it and pick him again.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=4110

LOL Hayden gets 150 :P


http://aus.cricinfo.com/db/NEW/LIVE/frames/AUS_ESSEX_03-04SEP2005.html

Brad Hodge hit 166 from 169, 24 x 4 and 4 x 6

seems to me like a batsmans paradise

final scorecard - http://aus.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2005/AUS_IN_ENG/SCORECARDS/AUS_ESSEX_03-04SEP2005.html

and the plan works, watch for hayden to fail x 2 at the oval.

lets see what happens when our knobs are on the block. Thursday will be a whole different kettle of fish.

bbbbbbbbbooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggggg

drop hayden, katich open with langer, and hussey in katich's spot

sorted! :D

wtf, if your picking hussey you open with him. Why bat an opener at 6 and move the current #6 to open?

Should be.

Langer
Katich
Ponting
Martyn
Clarke
Symonds
Gilchrist
Warne
Lee
MacGrath
Tait

OR on a spinning deck

Langer
Katich
Ponting
Martyn
Watson
Clarke
Gilchrist
Warne
Lee
MacGill
MacGrath

doubt either of those will happen though

First off I wouldn't name Watson in a test side, if I did, I wouldn't bat him above Clarke, and prolly not above Gilchrist either.

It's not such a bad idea, it'd give him a bit of rest before bowling.

you can't bat him low, he's no good there. He's a top order batsman. clarke is a proven number 6 and hasn't scored a run since moving to number 5. People claim it doesn't make a differenc where you bat, but it does. Gilchrist wouldn't have an average of 57 if he batted 4. If you play Watson you can't bat him too low as he doesn't score freely and is no good with the tail.

http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,16516209-5000061,00.html

does warne just not ever want macgill to play a game of test cricket? ffs what a biotch

WHAT WARNE SAYS GOES OKAY

if warne says don't play MacGill I'm down with that, he deserves to say whatever the f*** he pleases!