I notice we've received practically zero feedback regarding the rules/settings/etc for the QGL finals by way of email to qgl@qgl.org, and yet there's stories floating around on irc and so forth of people being disgruntled with certain decisions regarding some rules being outlined for use at the event.

Please understand the we don't go cruising web pages and message boards looking for feedback - we need it emailed in a polite, constructive manner to qgl@qgl.org. If you want to be heard by us, you need to speak - to us, not to an imaginary audience.

I'll make this clear - we won't change rules because you threaten not to attend, or step up your whinging about us on your web page. It is however, very possible that we will change rules if you email us with your well-thought-out ideas, reasons, and criticism. We're a busy group of people who often can't have all aspects of an issue adequately covered before presenting it to you - therefore we welcome useful feeedback, and re-emphasize the invitation to email it to us at qgl@qgl.org.

hmm i wonder who yew could be talking about
*cough hitman cough*
heh, yew might as well setup hitmanwhinge@qgl.org

isnt that what ng-online was made for? ;)

sounds to me like you are all being a bit too harse on hitman

maybe you are forgetting that everything revolves about him

Sif you wouldnt just air what you have to say on a forum... hmm much like this.

The whole argument came from trog deciding that thin shaft was cheating no matter what we told him. The main point of the picmip argument was because thin shaft made it easier for players with picmip 3 or less to see. In retaliation people argued that picmip 6+ was an advantage too because the shaft becomes insanely transparent. What I was tring to get across in this case was that either you should have thinshaft available and no restrictions on picmip or have them both taken out. Either way I don't care but thats where the picmip restrictions fit into the whole picture. Its not just a jab at people who use picmip 6+.

And some other random points regaurding hitmans rant on ng-online

1) Why wouldnt you download lobbys or fatalities config since lob uses picmip 4 and fatality uses picmip 5, if they were in the pre rounds they would be allowed to be able to play in the qgl finals.

2) Picmip 6+ not being allowed is also a rule of the cpl. And I think some sort of standardisation of rules for comps would be a good thing especially with cplpacific.

3) You talk about QLD's best ever q3 player slapping down boba and limps, your talking about lobby right? as far as i know he used picmip 5 at the start then went to picmip 4

apart from a few points most of the rant is just sarcasm so instead of biting I wont comment.

whats makes hitmans' post even gayer is the fact that he took the whole thing personally.

obviously qgl made the picmip rule just to upset hitman and prevent him from playing to his full potential.

How many players in the finals have been using picmip 6+?

Not that I'd have a clue since I haven't been to a lan or even fired up a "normal" game of q3 since the last qgl round.

I realise that there are players who weren't included in the final who actually (still) enjoy q3, and could slap me down with out even using a mouse. With this in mind I'm going to give up my place in the finals so that someone who might actually stand a chance can have a shot.

I'd also like to step down from my spot in TLG and let a player who has actually played the game since the last round fill my position, however the rules state:

"Teams cannot have any new players play for them in the final games. This means if a player didn't play for that team for at least one game during the regular rounds, they cannot play for that team in the finals."

hmmmmm..... What if a team had a member move away from Brisbane, or even hit by a bus or something? Or stop playing the game because it stopped being fun?

Fuzzy

The thing that s***s me off about it is that there is this great little thing called email where everyone that has a problem can send us a little note, and we can discuss it like ADULTS.. sigh

Fuzzy: that rule is to stop clans from dumping existing clan players and trying to get ring ins for the day, this is a really unfair practice both for the poor sod that gets dumped and for the team they play against.. Obviously there are exceptions to every rule, If you withdraw and tlg can find someone that has played for them in prev matches and not played for any other team thats fine.

As to picmip, had a chat to lobby about this on icq last night, he said CPL rule was picmip 5 not picmip 6, you dont want to know what he thought of it eheh. Basicly it comes down to this, if shad, leeeempsslut, BoBaj0r and the rest of the finalists are happy with hitman using picmip 16 we will let him use it. Basicly its up to the finalists

Term

I think any picmip is fine aslong as you allow thinshaft to be fair to the players that use low picmip aswell, after all both of them are used for higher visibility.

Look, enough... =)

The reason I'm not e-mailing everybody is because it's not worth e-mailing about, simple. I stired up enough s*** just pointing out a few 'issues' with the current ranking system, from which the finalist's where drawn from. Getting in I thought, into the finals, was as far as I was concerned a bonus. I mean what's the point of turning up, if you've got no games to play in.

As far as the whole PICMIP thing, well I'm taking the piss out of this whole situation, can't you guys see that? Milking it for every cheap hit I can get. It's not a life or death situation, it's a 15 minute duel against some mates of mine, that's all. An adult simply allows for that said s*** stirrer to be smacked down by GuVna in the first round 30 to -3 and that's the end of his PICMIP'in argument. Same goes for TLG in TeamDM against j0r, with whoevers subbing for Fuzzy cause he's not playing QIIIA anymore.

Sometimes I fear that when people are so focused on creating something big and wonderful, they loose site of the fact that overlooking the dancing girls, corporate sponcers, gigabit network, ANZ stadium, that there's just a room filled with spankers playing computer games against one another. The same spankers they've played games with for the past 4 years, and most propably the next 4 years.

I'm only taking the piss out of this whole PICMIP situation becaues it's funny and because you guys are taking this whole deal so seriously... I mean good on ya's for running this whole deal and putting all the foundations in place for an awesome event, truely, hat's off to the whole QGL possie for putting it together.

It's just that with all this talk of PICMIP this, CPL that, I have to remind myself that this is the Finals of the QGL lans we're talking about here. I'm astounded that my cheating ways have been allowed all season, it's in your rules. I'll be kicked out of the event if I double click my QIIIA icon and connect to the competition servers. Evil bad ]-[ITMAN... the shame of it.

I've also played all of my TeamDM and CTF matches using PICMIP, along with Rat, so hell, we're disqualified from those as well. If I'd only known that what I was doing was so wrong. If I'd only know I was playing in a CPL endorced league and not the Queensland one I helped set up. =)

Sure I go on like a complete d******* over on nG!Online, but as always, that site was setup to keep you guys and everyone esle from losing site of the funner aspects of this whole gaming/lanning deal. And too take the piss out of everyone and everything, including me everytime possible.

Sure I made a big deal about the whole PICMIP thing, cause I've been running it all year now, at every lan, so has Rat, so has Qix and a bunch of other guys. I also run with fixed models 1, using the Carmack model. You know the 'white' one? =) Is that also cheating?

Wait-on Boba does that too, he's not a cheat is he?

I am pissed that I'm not going. Not because I'm boycotting the event, that's nG! bulls***. But because of transport difficulties. I mean I spoke to Rat and he wasn't keen on going way before any of this s***, then with the Fuzzy situation in TeamDM we're basically screwed cause everyone else we know who's played for TLG is in CFu. They used to be called TLG2. s*** happens I guess.

I mean yesterday was not a good day to be me, trust me on this. So I might have gone a little overboard on the nG! department... Still I figure somebodies had a laugh at my expense so no harms done either way.

If you guys find the s*** posted on nG! so horrifying, then nuke it. Problem solved.

sif i'm reading that

hahaha s]-[itkuntman

i think you couldve have gotten your idea across with out rewriting the bible

CAn anyone explain in laymans terms ...HEHEH terms ..... WHAT the f*** picmip is our does ????
Signed HELP the uninformed MOF dood

WE have 5 or 6 all keen for the qgl finals so any of you big clans that are fighting want you can use poor old mof for target practice if ya wont

f*** your a wanker sometimes hitman ...

nG! isn't what is horrifying, its just that you seem to take everything qgl does as a personal vindiction towards you.

The ideal of having rules, is so afterwards people cant go back and bitch and whine on the forums that it was unfair because so and so had this blah blah blah.

you made it look like you where not going to qgl because of the rules, and that blows goats, and here you are saying that you are not going because you can not find transport.

Well there are, with any luck 300 people going to qgl, maybe one of them lives on yourside, or would be willing to drive up and get you.

Typodemon

For the uninitiated; at a technical level "r_picmip" is a way of reducing the amount of memory a texture takes up - in game, it blurs the textures on walls, floors, etc(Photoshop users could equate it to doing a Gaussian blur...)

The reason r_picmip is in the game is for video cards with low amounts of memory - 'blurring' the textures reduces the amount of space required, so video cards with 8mb RAM can run OK by turning the picmip level up.

r_picmip 0 means completely unblurred.

After that, the higher u set picmip, the blurrier the texturing gets until at high levels the walls are rendered as almost completely flat shaded.

The advantage is gained in that the player models are not greatly affected by the picmip setting and tend to 'stand out' from the (blurred) Q3 architecture.

and it gives you a cheaty shaft

Term,

I highly doubt you will change the rules from now on in. I knew months ago that thin shaft was gonna be banned for the finals, so i changed back to normal shaft to get use to the sensitivity of my mouse(as it changes slightly when applying thin shaft).

The fact is Trog had a vendetta against thin shaft cause he believed it was too easy to use the lg after the tweak.

Stupid thing is, initially when I changed to thin shaft, I changed from picmip 5 down to picmip 1. Quake3 looked awesome, and now the stupid lightning gun model was fixed!

< sarcasm>But no, we can't have people with picmip 1 running thin shaft having an advantage over people running picmip 4 or 5..... We need to make quake3 look s*** for all the spectators that come and watch the games.< /sarcasm>

I mean most people that see quake3 running at picmip 5 wonder why i would play something that looked that s***... Yes, they won't pick up the game and start playing it if it looks like s***. However, if players run picmip 1, people go "WOW!"

I won't bother emailing this. The decision was made ages ago, and no amount of bitching, or putting up solid arguments from us gamers will fix it.

Plus I really don't mind using normal shaft for the finals, it's only really useful in duels where ammo is precious, and your aim has to be good. Seen as I won't make it make it more than 2 games before being single eliminated, why bother...

where is guv?

Typodemon and ineffable, I dont really want to start a flame war..... but...

Like I said in my first post, how many people use picmip 6+. I'm guessing the answer is 1, that being Hitman. So how the f*** isn't he ment to take it personally?

Obviously I could be very f***ing wrong and everyone else has been using higher than picmip 6 aswell. But from the looks of it, limps, boba, shad, metal and co have always used picmip 5.

Like Hitman says, it f***ing rocks that the QGL is kicking out the closest thing BrisVegas has seen to a Pro Gaming LAN, but it's also stange that everyone has lost sight of the fact that it's supposed to be fun. I guess that's why I stopped playing anyway, and I guess I've got no real right to even be posting anymore.... So I wont.

When PsykoNit and I first saw higher picmip settings, we dubbed it "retro mode", coz it makes the game look like the old-style 3d games that were all flat colours on everything with basically no lightsourcing, etc... Remember Stellar 7? :-)

Cerb

Fuzzy: For a little while (and for a laugh) I was playing at picmip 12. But only while practicing Instagib with no crosshair. :-)

Cerb

Fuzzy: it was never directed at him, other people have used high picmips (like metal). it was nothing more than a clarification of what was allowed, hitman obviously saw the reference to picmip and jumped at the opportunity to bag qgl.

metal, I'm a little confused. Please tell me if I've got this right:

1) You're posting to this forum in response to my asking for feedback to emailed to qgl@qgl.org

2) In your post, you indirectly insinuate that my words are empty by claiming that we simply will not change the rules even though I've clearly stated that it IS possible

3) You're openly saying that you won't email us with your feedback

What is it exactly that you want?
(other than hitman to offer you an acc to post directly to ng-online)

Summarized version:

R_PICMIP 16 is now concidered cheating and you wont be allowed to play using that configuration at the upcoming finals.

I've used R_PICMIP 16 for every game I've played in the QGL season, Deul, TeamDM and CTF.

Therefore I've cheated in every game I've played in for the year 2000.

So therefore I shouldn't be at the finals at all cause I'm a lowlife dirty rotten cheating m0f0.

the picmip rule is only for the qgl finals

I understand r_picmap...I use a setting of 3 I think for speed purposes more than anything...

I don't understand how the thin shaft works...Is it some model patch or something?

I use forcemodels too btw. But not some ghey-looking Carmack model.

I use the Doom Marine because that makes Quake 3 even more j0raj0r :)

-- Rukh

stop living in the past rukh

So you can cheat your way into the finals, but you cant cheat at the finals...

Jim,

If you believe that if I put up a supported argument, it will be considered properly by other qgl admins, and that they won't just answer back with a "no, ya can't have it, cause we don't like it", then yes, I will email qgl today, so that they you guys may consider unbanning of thin shaft.

However, I expect a thorough response if the response is in the negative, with supported arguments as to why it will not be unbanned.

I'll also post it on this board so that other players can respond.

Maybe after luch thou, when i get back to "work" :)

I just think that if a player or players are allowed to use a config for an entire season, winning and losing, climbing the rankings ect...then when the finals come along those players are informed that they can not use the settings they are use to, and have been ALLOWED to use all season.

As for Ng!Online its just a lowlife page with no real informative content..but it would seem a lot of people keep going there from the reactions gleaned so far. And as for people making comments that such things should not be posted for an 'imaginary' audience, well freedom of speech is still pretty high in a democracy and what exactly is the 'web' for anyway but to bitch and stir. Plus Jim you are a fag -) Get a job.

* just so all know I think picmip looks so gay but then again so is the Hitman

:)

Just thought I'd comment on a few things I've been thinking about while trying to decide how I personally feel about the thin shaft/picmip debate.

There is no doubt that picmip and thin shaft are advantages (else, there's little reason to use them). However, there are many advantages to be gained by tweaking your system, both inside Quake3 and hardware settings. For eg, I play with gun models off to allow a clearer view of what is directly below me.

In addition, we have the argument that having higher settings of picmip (~ 5) render an effect similar to the thin shaft at picmip 1 anyway. In that case, it seems silly to allow picmip 5 with normal shaft, but not thin shaft with picmip 0.

On the other hand, we get into the 'game design' aspect. How far can we diverge from how the game was 'intended to be played'? Does picmip 10+ provide the gamer with an ability that simply was not intended by the game/level designers? Possibly, but this effect can also be gained at times by increasing gamma, or other changes, sometimes completely external to the game.

How big a difference is thin shaft/picmip going to make? Is Boba or limps still likely to win, even if some gamers were playing with picmip 10000 and a 1-pixel shaft? More importantly, should it matter? Should we impose different rules depending on the skills of the gamers? What if the top gamers wanted picmip 10? Should it be allowed?

Finally, we have the 'pro gaming' angle. The players are going to be competiting for prizes; and even if not, they are competiting to in essence prove they are one of, if not the, best dueler in Queensland.

While in the overall scheme of things this may seem to be a small achievement; the top players are only a step away from competiting at CPL qualifiers and the like, where the rules (and overall 'seriousness') are likely to step up quite a few notches. For eg, CPL impose picmip 5 or less. Are we doing our gamers a disservice if we let them play with any old settings?

These are just some of the issues I believe need to be considered for such a complex area. Perhaps we should all just curse id software for making such a customizable game engine :)

Hitman: well they could make the rule retrospective and then you would be called a cheating fag. But that wouldn't really be fair would it.

I dont think that anyone has really expressed any sentiment to not have picmip 6+ in the finals. The main resoultion sought is the thinshaft problem, as in.

Why is it wrong to have a shaft thats visible in picmip 0, but its ok to have a shaft thats very transparent in picmip 5+ if they are both done through console commands.

And people have been using thinshaft during the rounds leading up to the finals too. I used it for a while but choose not to keep it because I was never sure if the finals would allow it.

Hey fuzz ...

I play with picmip 6 ...

So the thin shaft thing is a console tweak?

Then what's the problem? It should be allowed in. Especially as there has been no rule against it for the rest of the season.
As for the CPL thing...fine, next Season stipulate such rules in advance. I think it's good to conform to the CPL rules if we intend to have players competing in CPL events. But it shouldn't be done for these finals in my opinion.

I don't even know how to turn thin shaft on or off. I use a modified config from limps so it's possible that I may have thin shaft enabled already. How do I turn it off?
Not that I use the ghey lightning gun much :) There is no lightning gun on q3dm17 ;)

Could someone please explain how the thin shaft thing works.

Thanks.

-- Rukh

i don't think limps has ever used the thin shaft

metal - I already told you in my news page post that that is most certinaly the case. Why do you feel the need for me to further guarantee it?

Here it is again at any rate:

"It is however, very possible that we will change rules if you email us with your well-thought-out ideas, reasons, and criticism. We're a busy group of people who often can't have all aspects of an issue adequately covered before presenting it to you - therefore we welcome useful feeedback, and re-emphasize the invitation to email it to us at qgl@qgl.org."

pyscho - you smell =]
My point about an imaginary audience had little to do with free speech. It was about this: what do people hope to achieve if all they do is post complaints on their webpage?

There's a couple of reasons why the answer to this question is "not much".

1) I won't be bullied into complying with people's wishes conveyed by public stunts.

2) I purposely avoid many gaming community webpages because often all they do is get under my skin by taking shots at the work I do, and then claiming it's all in the name of fun. I'm not going to retaliate and contribute to an endless chain of retaliation - so instead, I just switch off and don't bother reading them.

I actually think the object of my post was very clear - I wasn't asking people to surrender their right to speech. All I was asking was that if you expect some results, do something more constructive than just posting to webpages and message boards and talking on irc.

I only argue my points on irc to get my spam rankings higher

A worthy cause, I must admit

All, here is what is sent to the qgl email list. (I'm at work, so it's not like I could be doing anything else ;)


Dear qgl.

I am writing in regards to the rules of the "QGL Finals 2000 - Gameplay Rule List". These pertain to the following rules.

Rule 2. d.Thin Shaft. Using certain FOV and zoomfov settings in Quake3 it's possible to make a thin shaft. This will be considered a cheat.

Rule 2 e.Any r_picmip settings above 5 won't be allowed (ie r_picmip 6 to r_picmip 10 and above won't be allowed).


Firstly, I agree with rule 2.e. This rule is exactly the same as used by the CPL in it's tournaments. Many of the top cpl players run picmip 4 or 5. There is an advantage in using this picmip, as it allows you to see the opponent better due to the blurred textures.

Just for clarification, picmip 4 and 5 are not available through the menus of quake3. You must type it in at the console, and do a vid_restart to make it effective.

I do not have a problem with this rule. It's just here for comparison of rule 2.d

Now, Rule 2. d.

We should first clarifiy what thin shaft is. Thin shaft makes the quake3 shaft look like the quake 1 shaft. The aiming mechanism is no different except that the point of contact is easier to visualise due to less "shaft blur" on screen. The thin shaft can only be constructed using console commands.

A valid comparision of this effect can be made with two examples.

The first is running cg_gun 0 (which makes the gun dissappear from screen). This is also only available via a console command. cg_gun 0 with plasma gun in particular removes the plasma "pulse" when firing the gun. This makes it easier to see where your shots are going, and also allows you to see your opponent better. There is no rule against cg_gun 0.

The second comparison is that of using picmip 4 or 5.

Now with picmip 4 or 5, the shaft becomes basically inivisible. It makes it easier to see your opponent, and thus aim a little better.

Just to show facts, Picmip 4 and 5 are only available thru console commands. Current cpl and qgl rules allow picmip 4 and 5.

This seems contradictory to the thin shaft rule as this is very similar to running a thin shaft. i.e. Both cg_gun 0 and picmip 4 or 5, allow a slight advantage in being able to see the opponent. However thin shaft is banned by qgl.

Not only this, but qgl impliments a rule that the current big tournament league, the CPL, don't enforce. In light of professional gaming, and the liklihood that within a year we may have some qgl players represented at a cpl event, it's crazy to enforce a rule that is permitted in a higher league. Players have to run a more restricted config at a event which in term of granduer, is lower?

While the last paragraph is speculation, it does raise some questions as to how serious qgl is about professional gaming, and pushing itself towards the forfront of leading players into the "big leagues" of the world.

Regards,
metal

I don't play q3a that much (thats cos i am a wheel chair bound old foggy that still thinks quake and doom is worth playing) but I feel the need to say something here. Perhaps as a third party no longer involved with QGL or the finals I can provide some unclouded opinions. Then again Obes is Obes and you can Get f***ed!

Firstly as for the "its a console setting, therefor its ok" type arguement:
In quake1 it was possible to see through walls using nothing but console commands. Back around i97 (the v_kick*/polyblend/flashblend arguements), Jim himself argued that if quake let you do it then it was ok, until me and someone else (I think it was vuduchild or VG) showwed him some of the truely lame things you could do by playing only with console commands.

My take on the "but you let us do it all season" arguement:
This is not "the season" this is "the finals", there are prizes, and spectators etc etc and its not the first competition to have seperate rules for heats and finals (check Olympic beach volleyball for example). There has to be a clear written set of rules that define what is allowed and what is not (otherwise you will have unresovable arguements and animosity), the line has to be drawn somewhere and that line may have to redrawn as knowledge of what is and isn't an "unfair advantage" or what is acceptable grows, otherwise if someone developes some obvious "cheat" that isn't coverered by the rules what can the admins do about it?

Further more, some people may not like the rules, and the answer is "stiff", the bottom line is its their comp if you don't like don't play it. But these guys are not idiots I am sure they tried to make a descision based on the general feeling of the players involved, whats more they are sensible intelligent people (except for term he's welsh [j/k]) and if tried to approach them in a sensible way they will listen and try to change things or atleast explain why they are doing what they are doing.

The bottom line is the QGL guys work damn hard and for the most part are over worked underappreciated and seemingly under constant attack. They have job where they can never please everyone, all the time. Unfortunately this time the upset a small rather vocal yet myopic group, yet this same group relies on the group they are "bagging" to provide web and gaming services.

and remember Obes is Obes.

Yer, that's all very interesting...(eg, I could't be bothered reading it all)
Speactators. Do they have to pay? They aren't doing anything but standing around. What's the deal there?
Also, the Ausgamers page is screwing up. Clan Management is fux0r3d.

BOB the Fruit

Spectating is free. I can't see why they'd have to pay :)

Obes, your opinion is exactly why i was considering not sending an email.

"Further more, some people may not like the rules, and the answer is "stiff"" <- that's the kind of s*** i don't agree with. I've been told this in similiar words by 2 admins.


Gamers like to have an influence on how a league is run. Just like people like to influence how our country is run.

When enough people want change, it usually gets done....

But here we have a case of several gamers wanting change, lots sitting on the fence not caring, and trog saying "no".

Trog does a _hell_ of a lot for qgl, which i'm damn grateful for, as does all the qgl team. I just fail to see the method by which they decided that us gamers wanted this banned. The thing is, we don't want it banned...

Trog being a gamer and an admin has had a large influence on this issue. As a representative of us, he should consider our views, before his own personal views....


Saying all that, i've generalised alot about "gamers" which doesn't help my argument :/ I've spoken to alot of players about this, and the general view is that thin shaft is ok. I however can't support it with actual quotes unless I get everyone I know to give me a direct quote. (ineff, don't say anythin u sk! ;)

for everypone that doesnt know what the thin shaft is.

basically you put your fov on some ungoldy ammount, then you make the ammount that your zoom bind zooms in compensate for the huge fov and then run around in permanent zoom (only the zoom is bringing you back to reality fov).

this had an adverse effect on the lightning shaft, it makes it thinner and thus less in your face when you are trying to aim.


when people run high picmips the shaft becomes really transparent and piss easy to see though, so effectivley its the same thing (only everything in the world is clearer because there are less textures to camoflague players etc).


oh and to whoever gives a s***, boba runs picmip 0 and limps runs 1, or it might be 0 (dunno ask him yerself).

personally i think the gayest thing is making the game look like s*** so you can get an edge, thin shaft is fine imo and whoever said that rant about onlookers being more interested in q3 when they see someone running picmip 0 is competely correct.

If you feel that way metal, then exercise your right as a participant and consumer and don't enter/play/attend. But the fact that they have over 250 registration in under 1 day would suggest to me that your in a minority not a majority.
But if you are in a majority email them, get numbers and names of people who support you. Have the amendents worded and reasoning well thought out. Then I imagine the QGL admin team will listen to you (remember they aren't stupid and they are trying to please 300 gamers), but a bunch of whiney web whimps and message board spammers won't convince them about anything.

BTW ever consider the people who you think are "sitting on the fence" are on the fence because they aren't unhappy with the rules ?

Again bottom line its their comp therefor its their rules, if you don't like it, either help them to change it (don't work against them) or run your own (and I know from first hand experience that its not as easy as it looks/sounds). I am sure the QGL guys thought long and hard about the rules, hell I bet members of the admin team didn't even like some of the rules (if even only the wording), but they have the common sense to realize rules are required for reward based competition. From what I can see the rules are far from draconian and seem to be inline with other national and international competitions ?

I think you'll find tho, that alot of ppl just clicked the "Register" button and not the "Rules" button...

BOB the Fruit

150 CS players... 100 warez hungry school kiddies.
[ at least they wont have speakers. =) ]

Man rules are rules, some can be bent, others broken. It's all fine and dandy changing configs so that everyones in complete conpliance with offical CPL regs.

But deep down, no matter how hard I want it too happen, I'LL NEVER BE A CYBER f***ING ATHLETE. No one, not even Boba, Limps, Knoss or Karma has a 99.9% chance of ever making a living out of playing computer games. So why are we all pretending that if we don't conform to CPL regs that we're doing everyone a huge diservice, hell we might even hold them back in National and International competitions.

Come on guys... really, I mean any further down this road and you'll be banning entrants under the age of 17.

The fact is Trog had a vendetta against thin shaft cause he believed it was too easy to use the lg after the tweak.

That is not true at all - I have a vendetta against anything that is NOT DEFAULT.

Metal, your comments are based on supposition, and not fact, in any way, shape or form - I had nothing to do with that rule at all and only found out about it AFTER it had been posted to the Finals webpage.

That said - no cheaty packs :P

I think its really an id thing - they shouldn't have made it so that stuff can be changed. In fact, I dont think you should even be able to use vertex lighting, because it defeats the purpose of level designers making dark corners and stuff for people to hide in.

That said - the functionality is there in the game to change it, so that's why people do it. Personally, I don't change any of the default settings (except vertex lighting, and only because it saves me having to spend two grand upgrading :)

That's my personal opinion, btw, not that of the QGL's.

In this situation, I think we'll be doing what the gamer's want (as we always do) though.

I haven't had a chance to fully read this thread and my emails and stuff, becuase I just drove to melbourne and don't really have the level of access I would like; so I'll prolly post more on this when I get back tomorrow.

Also, why does having a different skin for say, your DE effect gameplay??? Why are they restricting that?
I can understand having default models, but weapon skins??? WTF?

Bobo

excuse me atm, but im a bit drunk, but i can still make a decent comment.

Thank u trog for clarifying your point of view. I appreciate that it's not totally your view alone(as i thought, by yours comments on qgl chat), and that you really didn't have an influence after all... even thou your view may express the same as those that banned the thin shaft. hmmm :( :/

so who of the qgl admins made the thin shaft rule? :/



I agree that no cheaty paks be allowed. pure server ensures this anyway.

That said, if u don't like whats not default, then why allow picmip 4 or 5. or cg_gun 0, or com_maxfps 120... :/ all require console commands, and all allow a slight advantage over other players :/ :(


Finally, Obes comments about not playing(boycotting) cause i don't agree are stupid. Why? I enjoy the game as it is. I don't mind that thin shaft is disallowed. It's just that it seems contradictory that cpl allows it, and qgl bans it.

I like thin shaft cause it looks so caw in picmip 1 or 0! It sure beats the normal shaft! And it looks a f***en ton better than anything in picmip 5!

I wont comment on the rest, but its that sort of attitude that will hold back Australia's entry into professional gaming. Just because you personally don't believe in it and will never be involved in it doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Open your eyes and look at the world around you. Even Lobby, who earlier this year was competiting at local lans in Brisbane; has attended and (done quite well) at world class professional gaming events. To claim that its simply impossible is exceedingly negative and far from the truth.

(As a sidenote; this post has nothing to do with the proposed QGL rules - I'm just commenting on your sentiments re: Qld players and professional gaming)

One more thing....

Quote from obes - "From what I can see the rules are far from draconian and seem to be inline with other national and international competitions ? "

My comment.

CPL allows thin shaft.... CPL is an international competition (biggest so far for quake3). Thus, it's not "inline with international competitons" is completely false :)

/me like defeating non-factual arguments :)

look someone just tell metal its ok to have a thin shaft

we won't think anyless of you metal, it doesn't make you any less of a man

Metal.....

Forgetting my rant below the whole point is if you have a problem take it to qgl@qgl.org and not be some whiner on a web board. Work with the QGL not against it and you will no doubt get better results.

Now for the rant.

So CPL allows thin shaft atm, big deal they could well ban it soon. Even if they do allow it, who is to say other comps won't ban it? Its far better to stray as little as possible from the "defaults" or "menu based" options of the game. And it seems thats what QGL have done in their rules ? Sounds like good old common sense to me. What happens if QGL champ is great on picmip 5000 thin shaft cheaty models and some other gay cheaty like thing but is an absolute s*** kunt when it comes to playing with more normal setting that a comp may require. QGL looks like the national society for s*** kunt gamers.

But if you really want to argue it ...
http://www.xsreality.com/?action=news&news_id=267

Thin-shaft trick banned from Frag 4

Mike Wardwell, tournament director of the CPL, laid down the law regarding the thin-shaft trick in Quake 3, issuing the following mail:

[quote]
I am in favor of no thin shaft. People do in fact watch players' monitors during tournaments, and the thin shaft doesn't look right. Even if some players do not prefer it, it is arguably an advantage. This means that later down the road everyone could start using it. I have to ask myself if I want 512 players using a strange looking thin shaft so that they all have the same unnecessary advantage. That is not good.
[/quote]

Now as it turned out they did allow it to frag4.
http://www.xsreality.com/?action=news&news_id=272

But for how much longer will it be allowed ?

There is huge rant fests @
http://www172.pair.com/cached/data/talk/965878086,24845,.shtml

For people confused about what it is ....
http://www.xsreality.com/?action=columns&type=staff&staff_id=4&column_id=47

basically its
cg_fov 300
cg_zoomfov 90
cg_drawgun 1
+zoom
in your autoexec.cfg

Again bottom line is qgl@qgl.org

obes, i've posted my feedback to qgl@qgl, and am awaiting a reply. The offical response i posted above was posted to qgl@qgl. All other stuff on this forum is just for discussion.

onto your "rant"... :)

it aint a rant in fact, cause u supported it with player/admin opinions :)

as i read, some ppl like it, some ppl don't. I even read that some players play better without it.... interesting.



Basically, thin shaft comes down to looks. I think the picmip 1 thin shaft looks f***en awesome. It may only help me a little bit in aiming, but the look of the game is so much better than picmip 5.

I suggest all readers who are interested in this debate or thin shaft read the url's that obes posted.

good stuff

Give me the name of one Australian currently earning a living from gaming? Not making Games mind, playing them?

[Silence]

What about the world? Fatality, Sojoy... Um yeah.

I'm not saying it's not going to happen in the future, hell Australia's produced some awesome players recently, good on em' I say.

Out of the 300 people attending the QGL finals they'll be possibly 1~2 guys capable of making the jump to the big time, possibly, given their will to do so. However the other 298 will be there simply be there to have a good time, not to make money. It's not a job, it's just fun, pure and simple.

So why pretend that the competitions have to conform to International Standards made by people who aren't us so that these two guys possibly [in reality it'd be zero] don't get confused whenever they head down south or travel overseas to compete at some big tournement?

If they're serious about their gaming and competing at the highest levels, they'd NEVER change their config from what it was that was allowed at these Internation Competions.

However I'm NOT PRETENDING to be anywhere even approching that level of l33tness, so why should I have to conform to rules that don't apply to me, hell I'm not a ProGamer wanna-be am I? Well maybe I am just a little bit. But in the end it's up to the individual to decide what works BEST FOR THEM. Not the CPL, just cause it doesn't look good on the big screens or webcast across the internet. Big f***ing Deal.

Sure next season, change the rules so everybodies running the same configs or whatever, but from the start so there's no confusion or anything. I mean what else are we playing for here besides our egos? All I'm objecting too is a sudden rule change for the finals. I mean it wouldnt be the finals of my season cause I haven't played without PICMIP 16 all year. Hell I've forgotten what Quake III Arena looks like.

Last time I looked this place was still called the Queensland Gamers League. By Queenslanders for Queenslanders? When did Angel take over? Wheres the big ass prize money? I mean I cant live off $100 bucks first prize money if I'm going to turn Pro, I'll need at least $10,000 a limo and a suite at the Hilton for the entire event and my own promo girls...

Thin Shaft, PICMIP, really guys it makes absolutely no difference to the final outcomes of these games. The maps sure do, as I've proven in the past. But that's another argument. The good guys always win... No matter what the rules are.

I'm against being labeled a 'cheat', cause I know I'm not. Sure it'd be way too simple for me to go to the console and type 'r_picmip 5', might still do that. =)

Now I'm labeled a windger cause I don't agree with the whole 'Pro Gaming Australia' line of thinking...

Sorry guys, I don't buy that for a second, I play games as a hobby, just like everyone else I know, nobody in Australia, not even the likes of Python or Loby or whoever can say to me that there's any money in playing QIIIA in OZ. Might happen in the future, might not either. I don't give a s***. If somebody young came up to me and said, 'I want to be a ProGamer', I'd spend the next 3 hours talking them out of it, why? Cause it's a wank that's why, they're better off getting a job, or going to Uni and getting a career. They're a hundred times better off, and still play games at lans for fun.

As far as I can tell, what with the CPL and all, the only people making serious money out of this whole 'ProGaming' propaganda deal are the promoters...

Oh.

um is it just me or is cg_fov 300 a redundant comand
its my understanding that fov is measureed in degrees and that q3 will not allow you to what is in front and behind you at the same time that said its the biggest fov you can set 180 ???

oh and btw i know you can set cg_fov to 300 but i dont think it makes any differnce 180 is the highest it will go

oh and yeah thin shaft hahahahahahahahhahaha

its not small its thin

As I don't use the thin shaft I don't care enough about this to write to qgl@qgl.org :) But I don't see what the problem is with using the thin shaft or large picmap values. Sure it looks like s***....But might it be possible to view the games with QTV and thus be able to see Quake 3 in all it's glory?

Both settings are console settings...Sure, I sometimes wish that id Software would implement some sort of official tournament mode where a whole heap of cvar settings were server side fixed and couldn't be changed but they haven't. To discriminate against some cvar settings and not others...

The CPL haven't banned the thin shaft. If they do ban it then sure, consider banning it as well. Sure most of you plebs have no chance of being pro-gamers (unlike myself ;) but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to follow their example on such things...if you think about it, it's better for all of us.

If you ban the thin shaft then you've disqualified pretty much every player except me. Hell...what about the women playing? They don't even have a shaft let alone a thin one. ;)

"cg_fov 300 a redundant comand " um no, you won't get a thin shaft unless you increase your fov, so its not redundant. Perhaps redundant was not the word you were looking for ?

Something less then 300 is the max fov... no idea what it is .... but who cares with 300 fov you get max fov which meanest thinest shaft.

Dont argue with hitman ... he alwas has to be right.

Lets not forget that most competitive games have started off slow, and built up a steady amount of fans.

Its is working in semi professional atmosphere, with a structor that is going to eventualy lead the gaming community to able to get money out of the time invested in playing games, or soponsership for only playing games.

Your such a fag, you go on about how everything is just for fun, but seemingly make a effort to s*** on other peoples work. Then when someone s***s off you on your work your the first to cry like a baby, constantly bemoaning how someone did something bad to you.

Its like your half fag, half pretty cool guy. Unforuntly the fag half appears online more often than not.

"Rules are rules" Yeah they are, and your bitching about the inclusion of rules for the finals? Have you ever played sports? Final rules are often different to the season that got you there. Is anyone claiming your a cheat, no ... because at the time it was FINE!, but for the finals it has been currently decided that it is not. Whats the big deal? sure there is only going to be one or two people in the finals, probably a lot more in the other quake3 comp. But these people (myself included) are not running around proclaiming that qgl have been calling me a cheater ...

Get off your highhorse, and do what you say ... just play it for fun .... Because if it was realy just all about fun, you would have gone ... ohhh f*** ... oh well im over it ...

Yet here you are having a big cry over it ... meaning that it isnt all fun for you ...

Typodemon

ok, my turn
i dont use r_picmip 6+, nor the thin shaft effect.
but i personally have NO IDEA how a CONSOLE COMMAND can be a form of cheating.
ok, so say picmip 10/16/whatever gives u an advantage, or the thin shaft effect does, so what, EVERY SINGLE QUAKE3 PLAYER could have that advantage if they felt the need.
i personally think that picmip 1+ f***s me up more then it helps me, and the same with the shaft effect.

anyway, to shorten it : i think a console command alone, (ie. no texture modifications, no aimbots or whatever) shouldnt be cheating, as every player can have it.

oh yeh, and about the CPL, they aint exactly the best decision makers around (all that map s*** about jude's map that SHOULD have been picked)

I don't play Q3. It sucks dick :)
But, on another note, I actually think Hitman has a point...

BOB the Fruit

Man I'm so over it.

Besides I'm sick of typing crap in here and not over on nG!

I figure whatever points I've raised, no matter how valid will be taken by some people in the wrong way every time, it's just human nature I guess.

I'm not s***ing on other peoples work.

I just wish that we'd do a stock take and learn from the CPL type of deals, and focus more on the average Gamer, than the high profile mega stars...

Is that a valid point?

Besides, we're not even close to emulating the big US type of deals where people live off of their prize winnings. Give it five or so years, then maybe...

Until then we should just try and keep this s*** in it's proper perspective.

BTW, what sports change their rules for a grand final? I mean fundementally, I'm not talking here about time limits either... which sports, I'm curious.

BTW, what sports change their rules for a grand final? I mean fundementally, I'm not talking here about time limits either... which sports, I'm curious.

Without thinking about it too hard or even looking up on the net.... I can think of 2. And I am far from being a sport watching type person.

Olympic beach volley ball.
Both number of sets and the rules for scoring points are different in the final.

Olympic Soccer.
What happens in tied game situations is different in quaters/semis/final/bronze medal match.

Using your arguement Hitman if I said I had been using an aimbot all competition up until now I should be allowed to continue using it. Or do you only want the "but I been using it" clause only to apply to things you want or agree with ?

Just something Badkarma said ..

"but i personally have NO IDEA how a CONSOLE COMMAND can be a form of cheating."

Back in the earlier CS versions, it was possible to see through walls with a few console commands .. would you call this cheating or not?

=)

I agree that we all had more fun when we were amatures playing Quake in the old Regen hall.

Personally I don't feel that there's a need for $100,000 rules for a $100 tournement.

My original post on nG! was targeted at that very point, a point missed by everyone.

/me ducks

I still think you are missing the point hitman.

It should have been an email to qgl@qgl.org (liked they originally asked) but instead it was in the form of a ng-online bitch. It has always been your way tho, to whinge in public before trying to work it out in private, all the way back to A3.

90% of people don't care about the rules, and even less care about picmip 15, probably because most people play quake3 and not that f***ed up thing I have seen being played on your machine, hell doom looks more modern then it ). So rather then posting on ng-online and giving the impression of working against QGL why not voice your concerns where people that care will hear them, ie. the people running the show ?

You of all people would no about acting professionally no matter how trivial the situation. (I believe you have given people under your leadership "rockets" for unprofessional behavior even over trivial things?) You may not be a professional gamer, and while QGL guys may not be getting paid they work their butts off to try and be professional.


QGL has sent individuals and teams off to national and international comps before hitman. Why shouldn't QGL desire that their "champion" and competitions operate to the standards ?

Hell the Gold Coast Table Tennis Assoc plays by the Rules. The local indoor cricket center plays by the rules. Why shouldn't gamers follow some sort of standard (apart from the fact that most gamers have the attention span of a single cell organism).

Yeah I dig your point. The posts and the opinions raised over on nG! Online, reflect my personal opinions on any number of subject area's.

Why my opinion carries so much wieght and is taken to heart by so many people I'll never know...

As far as e-mailing the QGL admins, sure point taken, go read nG! where I say I should have done that. It's all there, even the sorry bit.

I've gone way overboard here. I've expressed a view point which said I didn't much like the rules and before you know it I'm flaming everyone and anything in my path.

Not very smart. But still I figure lans are about the average gamer and not the elite guys. I figured the QGL were moving way too fast in the elite direction. But that's my take on this whole deal. They've always lead the way so who am I to complain?

But sometimes you need someone to spark off a discussion or whatever to get people thinking about what it is they want, why are they doing this for, those types of questions.

Actually before the last finals, I fired off to the admins this humungous e-mail, detialing all this s***. I'm happy to say they've acted upon 99% of the points I've raised, which for me is fantastic. All except us not getting to play in them that was.

Still, s*** happens.

As an aside, its possible to do things in a lot of sports that are technically within the rules, but are generally frowned upon. As I said up there, I think that there's a lot of stuff that you can do in the console that I would technically call cheating - but because you CAN do it in the console, as far as I (and obviously id) are concerned, its not cheating.

But games like cricket have things where the bowler can run up to bowl, and instead of releasing the ball to bowl, you suddenly turn around and hit the stumps with the ball whilst the non-striking batsman is backing up (similar to getting a baseballer out who's trying to steal a base). Most cricketers don't do this, and I like to think that they don't because its more honourable not to - its a cheap way to get a wicket (in my opinion, anyway).

In soccer, you can fall over and take a dive and whine and cry for a while and pretend you're crippled and try to get a penalty. This, I feel, is fully lame, but people still do it. Why? Because its a manoever that, within the rules, allows people to get a slight advantage.

Rugby? Rucking the other guy in the face - technically not within the rules, but judging from TV, most rugby players don't care about them anyway and just ruck out whatever they can see. Or maybe its just the French. Whatever. Its easy, in a game of rugby, to go slightly out of your way to try and injure someone to reduce their capabilities. This is obviously not just limited to rugby, but I tend to see more rugby players doing it more often (animals). American footballers do it - sacking the quarterback under 500 pounds of defensive dudes can cripple a team.

I'm sure there's a stack of other loopholes and stuff in the rules of a stack of other sports. Wherever you watch it, at whatever level, in whatever sport, you will find different kinds of people. I tend to categorise them as those that abide by the rules, those that break the rules, those that stretch the rules, and those that play with honour and respect for their other players.

Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you should. Personally, I do my best to try and make every game that I play (be it sport or quake or whatever) fun and fair for the other player. I'd rather beat them because I'm a better player, not because I take advantage of every trick in the book to give me that slight advantage in the game. Where's the glory in that?

In the end, it comes down to id going back to making games the way they should be played, not the way the players want to play them. I can't blame you for wanting to play games the way you have been, and the way you CAN - because that's the way it is. I think you should want to NOT play with those options.

I don't want yall to think I'm calling you a pack of cheaters (in any seriousness), because I'm not - you're just taking advantage of what is really a feature of the game - that I feel provides a little too many options.

I love the console and all you can do with it, but I think id should go "here are the default options - these are what competitions should be played with" - this will set the baseline, and prevent all the stupid fragmentation we're having.

All I can say is, you guys are just LUCKY I haven't been making the rules. You wouldn't have been able to play with your gl_polyblend, or turn off lightmapping, or turn off blood, or that sort of thing. Muahaha.

Hitman ... people take what you say to heart, because you have been on the scean since moses was a child (hell it feels like it sometimes), and people who have been around for a long time and put themselves in the public light (as nG! online does) puts your ideas and thoughts out to air.

The problem comes in a couple of areas.

You have a big cry about something someone else does, not talking to anyone else, and go off half cocked and make it sound like people are targeting you (and only you (or possible some other TLG members)).

People are trying there best to please everyone, and you go and rant and rave, and then wonder why people get pissed off.

Secondly if one person says anything about your endevours, we get a big cry , about whata pack of c***s they are, or members of that endevour rock up on qgl boards and go off there nut.

As I said, half the time your cool. Everytime I have met you in person its your just another abnormal (geek abnormal) person. Yet sometimes you just get it in your little nugget that someone is targeting you and your (constantly amazing) picmip settings. I can imagine the QGL admins didn't even raise you at the QGL meeting about it, I bet they didn't even think that it would be a issue with you.

Otherwise it would have been ...

Jim>Are we going to limit picmip?
Trawg> Doesnt Hitman use a stupidly high picmip ?
Jim> ohhh crap better not mention it or we will get a 900000000000000 word long essay on the subject :P and all s*** will raise on the boards.

No one likes things like this, I know everyone just wants a even playing field, and a lot of fun. Buy having a big bitch about it you started to take away the fun of people who are donating there time and effort to this event.

You know when you posted the rules on your page, and went hmmmm ... I went ohhh crap doesnt Hitman have a silly picmip .... doh crap ... this is going to get hairy, you made your point (public point for those in the know) right there. The best thing would have been to email and make a comment first ... and if nothing was sovled go have a big cry ...



Typo

Having a big cry himself :)

Oh yeah sport events that change.

Quite often lower grade sports have local rules, or do not (because the group of clubs choose not too) use the uber recent rulings for the sport.

But grandfinals are between people of a multitude of small areas, which all have different although pretty close rules. So they forumlate the ultra correct rules and play by them. Either that or the year long comp is casual, and a lot of the more anal rules are not reffered to. If someone has a problem they will call the ref over and talk about it.

My personal experiance was with Hockey, club level hockey used the western suburbs rules, for the finals they used the hockey tournment rules, which is close enough that it only caused the players to go WTF once or twice.

Professional level sports normaly keep the same rule set in the whole way though to avoid the pitfalls that you get if you don't, because you are playing for money you have too.

QGL has the same approach for the finals, normal games where fine, a cusual approach, as little being completly anal about it as possible. Finals and prizes are on the line, lets try and be as fair as we can about this. QGL can not afford 80 odd computers, to give every finalist equality yet (just like rugby can not make every one the perfect human), but they can insure that everyone has the same rules to work with.

Typo

can you summarise that s*** ^^^^^^^ pleze :D

more than 1 paragraph is too much.

eg.

Counter-Strike: this game is ok, was great, now f***ed, and can be saved. But the game community will find other talent somewhere. Plus its a team-based game, that is Deathmatch. Hopefully you can learn to play it like CTF.

S N I P E A L L T H E F U C K I N G T I M E!!!!!

If you cant read that much in a single session, then dont.

Typodemon :)

I am a walrus.

Saint: yeah, that would be classed as "cheating" in my opinion, but still back then cs was in "beta" and wasnt even final...
if those commands are readily available in 1.0 it just proves how ghey cs is

trog this would all be great if we all had f***ing awesome systems eh ?!...

i get 55 fps in timedemo 1 with MY config, vertex, picmip 3, simple items etc etc... the default cfg would get me about 30 fps and itd drop to < 10 fps too...

Shrug; a lot of sports don't cater for people that can't afford to get the tools / equipment that they need. Sure, it sucks, but thems the breaks.

Being in Sydney (and thanks to the Finals being held a week before I'll be there...BASTARDS) I won't be attending the Finals, not naturally do I attend the regular QGL lans.

Having said that I keep in some kind of bastardised internet form of contact with some of the QGL and other lan guys in different states and it seriously makes me wonder why you would bother running these large-scale events. It seems every decision, no matter how small, that is made is subject to intense scrutiny - which in itself is fair enough, but if the right 'result' isn't obtained then it's gloves off time.

This isn't no fagfest-style 'selectively bar certain players' issue, it's merely parameters in which the comp is held. If these guys have sacrificed such a great proportion of their leisure time to regularly produce these kind of events, why not be more demonstrative about your appreciation? It's easy to see people questioning the motives of the organisers etc, complaining about this rule or that, but its a no win situation...with judgement calls and gamers you get hammered regardless of what you say.

Personally, I'd like to see bigass quake (as in quake, not q2 or q3) lans being held without CS players at them, but it's not going to happen anytime soon, and it's not the QGL admins fault that that happens, it's just how it is at present. We cant always get what we want. Maybe some of us need to learn how to cop it sweet and not always shoot the messenger.

Yes, it can be said that some lans in the past (and doubtless in the future) have been as much about promoting the interests of the organisers as that of fostering the growth of gaming, but I honestly don't perceive this approach from the QGL guys, they work their asses (sorry Fuzzy, arses) off providing hosting for gamers, coordinating a national network for gamers, creating applications for gamers and running regular LAN events for, yep, gamers.

I wonder how much in round figures they are doing it for? Could it be that they are doing it for free? I don't see Term retiring anytime soon to his welsh sheep shagging ranch on the southern highlands on the proceeds from running QGL lans.

Whilst I loathe people using the 'if you dont like our LAN run your own' argument, and think there is a place in any organisation for accepting constructive feedback, I think that people should take the time to bear in mind just how many player needs have to be addressed when you run a bigass LAN on a regular basis.

In closing, a word to some of our sponsors:

Jim - update
Trog and Term - I know you changed the date to avoid playing me bitches
Hitman - just play the f***ing game willya?

I am disapponted Gobo, your post was intelligent eloquent and even well thought out.

Its an obvious fake.

What disappoints me is that I decided not to put at the bottom Obes is Obes = fag0t... seriously it was there but discarded at the last second as being something that was too obvious to bother mentioning.

I feel cheated.

But if you hold quake only lans, you get heaps of people crying because there have been no qgl cs only lans. We held a ra3 lan in the old "Regen" hall, designed for a bit of good fun, and such.

All sorts of bitching happened because of it... i was stunned.

That's my point - damned if you do, damned if you don't.

It's not participatory-positive or inclusive or any of the other catchwords, but my personal preference would be for CS-only players to scuttle off elsewhere and for Quake*.* players to have their own lans, but that's a purely selfish view I guess. The reality is that even Q3 (at least it seems to be the case in NSW) Q2, QW and Quake combined dont attract nearly the amount of participants as CS. It's sad, but true.

troll
Doubtless CS players would think that CS' teamplay is the reason for it's popularity, rather than the fact it's a newbie game, but then again those people saying that have never played a proper game of quake teamdm.
/troll

but if you have a CS v1.0 release lan party it would involve nothing but heaps of people whinging about the player models, reminising on how beta 3.1 was so much better, and having gay sex in the toilets

..l,,

Not nearly as much gay sex as you whinging f***ing Quake 3 players. f***. You c***s have practically taken over this msg board with your f***ing bitches and complaints...

On another note, I found a nice shiny penny.

BOB the Fruit

Just remember that you owe your presence on this board to quake, newbie cs scum.

Just another thing to blame^H^H^H^H^Hthank id for hey!

I like my shiny penny. It's nice and shiny.


Bah, f***en Quake. I thought all you little children would have grown out of that years ago...

BOB the Fruit

Lucky some of us didn't or all you CS kiddies wouldn't have all these nice LAN events to go to with your subwoofers and speakers, right?

Anyway, I would have thought the average CS player would be able to sympathise with things remaining static (like some of our tastes in FPS), given the fact that most of you don't even use the movement keys when you play.

The console is there for the programmers benefit not for the players. If it was intended for the players then the commands would be very intrinsic like: DrawTheGunImHolding 1 or f***ThoseWallTexturesOff 13. But no, they're a little obscure.

By that logic, using the console commands is cheating. Yes that does include "connect [ip]" and whatnot. :)

Q3 wasn't released with cg_fov 110 and r_picmip 5 by default for a reason.

Quake 3 players. f***. You c***s have practically taken over this msg board with your f***ing bitches and complaints...

Hahahaha !! But surely when CS came along it was CS players that took over the messageboard ! & with loads of useful information too !! Still I spose thats what you have to expect from pre-pubecents :o)

Bah, f***en Quake. I thought all you little children would have grown out of that years ago...

Hahahaha !! But weren't you talking about q3a !? It hasn't been out for years ! Your pretty silly with your coins & sophistry !

http://dem0n.qgl.org/images/mgifz/m_insular_shaft.gif

DO YOU WANT SOME OF THIS !!??

heheh

Quake3 is a s***ty game, but at least it doesnt make me feel dirty and used like CS.

Animated gifs ... what wonders.... is that tran ?