http://qgl1.qgl.org/images/Epiclogo.jpgFor those of you who missed it, Epic Games announced that they are a licenced tool developer for Xbox, making the unreal engine available to developers. This includes Unreal Editor, Unreal Script, source for the engine, complete game code for Unreal and Unreal Tournament, support from Epic and access to new features and updates.

"The Unreal Engine is the ultimate market-proven, cross-platform engine for Xbox game developers," said Mark Rein, Epic Games' vice president. "We've already completed, and more importantly we've shipped, the first console version of our engine and now we're aiming our best technological guns squarely at the powerful Xbox. For Xbox developers our very recent experience developing and releasing a top-quality next-generation console game is an invaluable support resource they can't get from any other engine vendor."

Sif Unreal isn't extremely gay for anyone who isn't a loser that wants to spend all there time on the single player game (which is pretty good from what I have seen - stark contrast to the mega gay multiplayer crap..).

Unreal owns all with its brilliance.

Haha how did I know that you would reply to this :)

Because you posted a childishly inflammatory post perfectly calculated to inflame anyone that might think otherwise about UT? That's just a guess... but I'm usually right about things like that.

:P

Unreal RULES pc game market

It's a good thing that the X-Box is a closed platform with exactly the same hardware in every box isn't it? Because as we all know, the Unreal engine sucks donkeys balls on anything other than the hardware it was designed for (ie. 3dfx video cards).

Don't you love how delusional Sales & Marketing weasels are sometimes? It looks like this guy had extra brain taken out during the mandatory labotomy you need to become a sales weasel :). I mean how can you actually prove the following statement :

"ultimate market-proven, cross-platform engine for Xbox game developers"

Is it because the Xbox doesn't exist yet and therefore there is no way to test this theory? I mean is it just because iD haven't decided to jump on the Xbox bandwagon yet? Anybody who knows anything can tell you that the Q3A engine is technologically superior in almost every department that counts. Gameplay aside, where it seems there is still a lot of debate as to which is better, there is little doubt which one is the "ultimate cross-platform engine". You'll have to excuse me, I get really sick of Sales weasels sometimes, this guy was probably trying to "value add" to one of his "sales channels" whilst adding it to his "action items" or something.

In conclusion, sales people are clueless! :)

Lycomedes.

err, they woudl have access to a pre release x-box and woudl have tested teh engine...and they have also written it for dreamcast and playstation2
so basically your a fool

I think lyco's theory is probably more accurate

You are so dumb it's comical. Assuming they did have access to a pre-release, how does being the only engine available on the platform (at such an early stage), qualify it as the ultimate? Is it possible that this is perhaps a bit premature?

If we are to disregard the Xbox for a moment since it is such a relative newcomer, and is nowhere near ready for release, then consider other contenders for the title of ultimate market-proven cross-platform engine.

In the red corner, we have the Q3A engine, which runs on Linux, Mac, Win32, and Dreamcast (Thus far). In the blue is the Unreal engine, which afaik is only Win32, PS2, and coming soon to a DC and Xbox near you (of course correct me if i'm wrong there).

You would find little argument from anyone who knows anything that Q3A beats Unreal with respect to the engines involved in most crucial areas, with the possible exception of AI (which is admittedly more important in single player console land than in the PC world).

Therefore, just because Unreal is the first to release their engine to any given platform does not really give them the title on that platform by virtue of the fact that they are first to announce their offerings. From the last information I had, the Xbox was under consideration with iD as well, so until their CEO announces that they aren't going to touch the Xbox, I won't believe otherwise.

Please bear in mind that the platform is complete vapourware at this stage, and therefore claiming the title of the ultimate engine for the platform is a fallacy, at least until the offerings of other companies are ascertained.

Thanks trog, it's good to see that people with brains can see my point for what it is, and not post s*** designed to be inflammatory just for the hell of it, or to cling to some long held belief that is later overwhelmingly proven to be false (Can't imagine who I would be talking about here :).

In summary:

Barak, you are a tool

w00t to that!

big ups to westside massive. respect

What other games use the Q3 engine apart from Q3 ?

Unreal does run on linux, loki does the code for it.

there you go, linux, windows, ps2, dc, x-box
yes it is complete for dc,

yes they can make this claim casue at this moment they are the only one there for there can be no one to beat them....so suck it

"how does being the only engine available on the platform (at such an early stage), qualify it as the ultimate? " - because it has no contenders

face it, Unreal is too awesome for you even to begin to comprehend your gonna have to dig yoursef out of that self dug hole of ID worship and accept the facts.

Unreal = Ultimate gaming experience

How could the Unreal engine be better - it is like 2 years older. From a purely visual point of view it is far more advanced than Unreal - you can see that relatively easily. Unreal looked unreal (:P) when it first came out, but it has been eclipsed now.

And surely a game based in OpenGL like Q3 would be easier to port than ones based in other rendering engines cos it is more of a standard.

"How could the Unreal engine be better - it is like 2 years older. From a purely visual point of view it is far more advanced than Unreal "

better than what?.....Q3?

1. more games use d3d than opengl

2. that is why it is superior, it has endured teh test of tiem becasue it was so advanced for its time, Unreal is the ultimate game engine.

Unreal = The greatest gaming engine in man kinds
history

D3D = renderer from God

You d******* Hugh - The unreal engine was designed for 3DFX - D3d was hardly even around then.
I meant Q3 is far more advanced than Unreal too obviously.

Just cos more games use D3D has nothing to do with it being superior, it has to do with the fact that every card on the market supports it natively.

3DFX cards don't have direct support for OpenGL.

"OpenGL like Q3 would be easier to port than ones based in other rendering engines cos it is more of a standard."

"every card on the market supports it natively." - referring to D3D

there ya go, its better and more standard

hmm, Unreal engine developed into UT engine, they are one in the same given taht Unrel with teh latest patches is the same as UT engine.....and it works just dandy with D3d.

3dfx cards dont have direct support for opengl....because 3dfx realises that that woudl be a silly waste of its time to make its cards directly support such a crappy renderer

D3D = that which s***s upon opengl

Epic = that which makes ID it's biatch

Oh yeah- and 3DFX is really going well at the moment isn't it..... its getting totally owned by Nvidia.

And ask anyone who has anything to do with proper graphical rendering and they will tell you that OpenGL is much better than D3d and is much more a of a rendering standard. Why do you think it is that it is only render that BeOs and I think Linux supports?

And you'll find that Unreal still works one million times better with 3DFX than with anything else including D3D.

yeah itsperformance excels especially with glide, but that doens't take away from its d3d support

Unreal = God's gift to heterosexual gamers

Yeah its God's gift to heterosexual gamers cos all the poofters play Unreal and leave all the good games (Quake series) to the hetero's.

I can't believe you honestly think that an Open standard developed by the world's best in the arena of professional graphics (SGI namely), such as OpenGL could possibly be better than a closed standard developed for one platform only by a greedy, monopolistic company such as D3D. It's just as naive as saying that a new version of the HTTP protocol developed by Microsoft that could only be server up by IIS, and viewed in IE on Windows would be better for us all. The idea is simply ludicrous!

Oh, and "every card on the market supports it natively." obviously is referring to the fact that they all support it under Windows, pity about any other decent operating system that doesn't happen to come from M$.

BF : None to my knowledge, but then it's quite a young engine, I doubt there has been enough time for anybody to develop a game on the engine yet. We are still seeing games based on the Q2 engine!

I'd keep arguing ppl, but I have to go to work.

barak you are such a tool.

quake 3 hasnt been out long enough to have a massive to have a large list of games using its engine but then neither has your precious UT either

in answer to who asked yes there has been a quake 3 engined game out goes by the name heavy metal fakk2.

as for you Barak and you statments about d3d verse opengl. Yes d3d is much better which is why john carmacke widly regarded as one of the best programmers in the world chooses to use opengl as his native render the reason epic use d3d over opengl is because tim sweeny (lead programmer of epic thought i should add this in as last time you didnt know) is a bill gates dick lurvin fagot who couldnt code a decent engine if one slapped him in the face. As for your statement unreal runs like a dream wake up to yourself you cock head you've said youself you use some mega machine and i bet you still cant play the game with everything on. Yeah thats running a game well. I know ive said it before and i will say it again...

Epic made a public announcement that they were prepared to sacrifice up to 20 frames per second for looks. Thats the most stupid thing i have ever heard from a game company its basically saying yes we are inbed with intel and 3dfx and the actual cost of our games is the game price plus the price of the lastest and greatest hardware from each.

Ive been playing Rune at the moment and its unreal engined based (could be UT not sure) and its a f***ing awesome game so far (been told it get boring half way through) but its biggest downfall is that i keep falling in lava because it chugs when i go outdoors. thats not humanheads fault. thats epics

anyhow ive got things to do

to be continued

Barak: Okay, one of your reasons for the Unreal engine being better than Q3's:

"more games use d3d than opengl"

Okay, so when something is more widely used it immediately makes it better? So under that theory, Windows 9x is the best operating system available because it's the most widely used. Win2k makes Win9x look like a 4-year old's attempt at an operating system (and that's probably an insult to 4-year olds). But Win2k still can't even be compared to Linux.

Think about it: The Unreal engine has been around for at least 2 years. I'll admit it is a pretty good engine. It ran great on my K6-200 with a Voodoo 1. When I replaced my Voodoo with a TNT, it was back to software mode - no D3D mode available at that stage.

On the other hand, we have iD. The Q3 engine will soon follow the success of the Q2 engine as far as the number of titles using it. iD have been in the business of writing engines since before hardware acceleration, and have had OpenGL support from the arrival of the first 3D cards.

Their engines have always been revolutionary, but most important of all, they have been fast. Hands up who played Quake on a 486? Quake3 has loads more eye candy than the original Quake did, but that's because they've been able to scrap the software support. I'm sure John Carmack himself would personally smack you up the back of the head if you don't have a 3d card nowadays.

Just because Epic are the first to announce support for XBox doesn't mean they're the only ones. Until iD deny support for XBox (which I can't see happening seeing that Q3A was ported to Dreamcast) you have to assume that they'll be working on something. Being first to announce something is not as prestigious as being first to market it. (need I mention BitBoys? :)

Well, nuff of my rant. Next!

Cerb

I believe Star Trek: Elite Forces also uses the Quake3 engine.

In terms of sheer numbers, its no suprise that the Unreal engine has more games made from it than Q3 - the Q3 engine is hugely expensive to license ($500k plus royalties from memory) which when added to game development costs means you better make a pretty popular game from it :)

There you go Barak: Q3 HAS to be better cause the license is more expensive. It's the Porsche Turbo to everyone else's WRX. :-)

Cerb

What a wonderful and perfectly applicable analogy :)

mmmmm Porsche 911 Turbo...... *blow my load*

yeah only a money grabbing bastard would charge that much where as epic understand teh true nature of gamming (that is why Unreal was such an awesome detailed experience) and give their engine at a far more reasonably price.

err pete i run UT in 1158x864...ithink that's it, with EVERYTHIGN on, so eat s***. and you heard cerb, he used to runit on his k6200 with voodoo1

Unreal Egnine = Most awesome engine ever seen by gaming public

D3D = that which totalyl s***s upon opengl without so much as breakign a sweat

eat me.

AnaRoT: Would you believe I saw two brand spanking new Porsche 911 Turbos on the back of a truck coming to work the other day? Very very nice.

Hmm... we seem to be off topic... better fix that.

Q3 GooooD! Unreal Baaaad!! :-)

Cerb

If it weren't for Unreal FPS games as a single player experience would still be a shallow sa quake2
Unreal gave that game genre a much needed kick inthe arse and became the new standard in gameply depth and i dont htink we woudl have games as good today is it weren't for it

Epic = visionaries and talanted game makers

ID = money grabbing sell-out lamers with no talent

Unreal sux0red. at least the quakes required some kind of skill.

put 'em up what what put 'em up what what

once again ... it is barak vs the woild !!

& from a position of having his head up his arse ... the world is obviously wrong !

bahaha ... its awesome

Hey Hugh - yeah I will admit that Unreal is awesome single player, but its multiplayer is extremely gay to the extremely gay max.As I said right up the top in my original post.

Hehe Cerb - Napster Baaaaad!!, Beer Gooooood!!! :P

Gotta love those flash things from Campchaos!!

f***ing Metallicops here - GO!! f***!!! hahaha

Barak, you are truly a tosser... yeah, Unreal (not Unreal Tournament) used to run on my K6-200 with the Voodoo 1, but what Lyco was pointing out way back at the top was that the Unreal engine by far performs at it's best on 3dfx-based cards. I replaced the Voodoo with a TNT (much much much faster card) but never played Unreal again, because it was in software only so my new card was wasted. That was in the pre-D3D, glide-only days of the Unreal engine.

If D3D is such a widely used environment, then why did it take soo long for the Unreal engine to support it? Games such as MotoRacer were around before Unreal, and they had D3D support (I used D3D on my Mystique before I even got the Voodoo) yet "the greatest game engine ever" took many months to pick up D3D support. Doesn't sound so great to me.

Sure, it had great visual appeal (on 3dfx cards) when it first came out. But nowadays it's just another engine.

Oh, and my K6-200 was one of the faster machines at the time (it was actually the recommended system, not the minimum required), yet the framerate was prone to dropping below playable levels.

I have seen Unreal Tournament played in software mode on a Celeron 500 and it looked crappy as hell. D3D mode doesn't look too bad, but like I said, it's just another engine.

i'm not saying that the Q3 engine is the be-all and end-all of gaming engines, just that it has had it's major downsides.

Cerb

i have the unreal box right here cerb
p200mmx recomended, not a k6, because the k6 processors perfom at clse to half the performance of an intel chip, i know this because my old k62-450 with 16meg tnt was comparable to my friends 233mmx with voodoo2 for cs. so no your compputer woudl not have been the best for its time.

multiplayer? err nos*** Unreal was a single player experience, you want multiplayer that's what UT is for and UT ROCKS! Unreal was in development for some time and at teh timeit looked like 3dfx woudl dominate teh 3d card market, this didn't happen sue to some silly decisions on the part of 3dfx, this is why Unreal was written for glide and given taht is what it was aimed at i guess it took a whiel to get it over to d3d...but that didn't matter UT shiiped with D3D support, i mean ther are those among us who can appreciate a godo single player game without 3d acceleration plenty of peopel i knwo played Unreal in software and thought it was awesome.

f*** man, its not like Unreal was totally f***ing succesful or anything, DUH,it f***ing made so much money so it cant be as bad as you tools reckon, cerb if you had a brain you woudl have left your voodoo in with your tnt so you coudl still play glide games, that's what i did.

im sorry people, you are just gonna have to accept the fact

ultimate gaming engine ever = Unreal

Best renderer in history = D3D

Owner of biggest Penis in the world = AnaRoT
Owner of smallest Penis in the world = Barak

Discussion over.

nah its just looks like that proprtionally, cause my physique is so rediculously hugely muscled, and yours is so weedy, in actual fact i beat you by a few cms

besides i dont want this getting off topic

Unreal = owns all

D3D = also owns all, except glide

Hahaha - sif you aren't the weedy one :)

Don't see you doin any of my one armed push ups fag boy hehe.

Bet I outweight you too.

Haha now you think glide is good? That really is laughable - GLide is oh-so-s***house now - even s***ty old D3D is better than that s***.

Barak: give it up. K6's are not half the performance of an equivalently clocked Pentium. In Quake 1 software benchmarks, my system was 0.5fps behind a Pentium 200 (non-mmx). Yeah, sure, the floating point was inferior to Intel's (only about 5-10%), but the integer performance was better.

If your k6-2 450 system was beaten by a p233mmx then there was something seriously wrong with your system. My system was DEFINITELY not the same speed as a P-100. It was more like a P-166mmx clocked at 175. Maybe better.

"cerb if you had a brain you woudl have left your voodoo in" - I took my voodoo out because they sucked by the time I got my TNT - at that point I had my Celeron 300A @ 450 and the voodoo wouldn't do over 30fps at any clock speed. Plus, it was limited to 640x480. I much prefered to give Uunreal the big flick and begin playing Half Life at 1024x768. Unreal was getting old at that stage and back then even Half Life was better than Unreal.

And anyway, if I wanted Glide games, i could have grabbed Creative Labs' Glide drivers for the TNT when they briefly appeared. The only game that was Glide or nothing was Unreal. And I'd played Unreal to death by then and was totally over it.

"im sorry people, you are just gonna have to accept the fact

ultimate gaming engine ever = Unreal

Best renderer in history = D3D"

Why the f*** should we accept that fact? Just because you said it makes it the undeniable truth? The only fact I'm really accepting with any great ease is that you're the greatest tosser I've seen. You're just gonna have to accept that fact.

Cerb

I'm sure he would rather accept your penis :)

Sif you'd worship an api that was specific to one hardware manufacturer.

Cerb

You'll accept my foot up your ass if you're not careful, AnaRoT. :-)

Cerb

you are having a hard time accepting the truth aren't you cerb, but the clear undeniable facts are that:

Unreal = owns all games in its path

D3D = s***s on all other renderers except glide

now read it enough tiems and it may sink through your skull

I was under the impression that Barak was supposed to be the "logical one, that uses reason and facts to back up all of his arguments" I remember a post of yours critisising people for their use of unsubstantiated opinion.

Yet all you are stating is your apparant devotion to Unreal and D3D which I must add is only your opinion.

Funny how Glide is a subset of OpenGL

No he is actually stating that he is gay. WHat he is saying is in poofter code and means "I want my ass f***ed by a big strong man".

in other words i masturbate becasue i am teh big strong man

look barak any one who claims epic are the true gaming gods and id are sellouts is obvisiously living in some kind of fanatasy world with pixies and eskimos.


yeah carmack the sellout who open sourced doom

carmack the sellout who open sourced doom 2

carmack the sellout who open sourced quake

carmack the sellout who is talking of open scouring quake 2

carmack the sellout who doesnt take out pataitans on his invetions on the principle that people with hold information

carmack the sellout who in his spare time helps maintains the standards for opengl

carmack the sellout who writes open source opengl drivers for linux

should i continue
yes these are the actions of a filthy money grabbing capitalist pig arent they Barak

mean while people still have to pay to licence unreal a three year old engine yes epic understand the true nature of game dev dont they you f***ing retard

i doubt there is another game company that puts half as much back into the community as id so spin your lies some where else you s*** head

barak is gay.

now i know i have been know to say things with out evidence before but these two quotes provide more tahn enough evidence:

"Unreal = The greatest gaming engine in man kinds
history"

"D3D = renderer from God"

i rest my case

Alright, I finally have a grip on this situation, and as a matter of fact, I have gained some insight into the psychology of Barak (It's a scary thing, let me tell you!).

Yet again, in the face of overwhelming opinion against him, Barak refuses to budge from his ill-conceived, and half baked ideals. I think I have managed to figure why this is so, unfortunately, I'm going to have to get a little Freudian on his ass (How's your relationship with your mother Barak? :).

My theory is that he does all this because he actually enjoys being demeaned, and enjoys people hating him. I suspect that he has repressed sado-masochistic tendencies which he enjoys living out through this forum.

I have this solution for you Barak, why don't you get out there, find yourself a dominatrix, hire her for a night and get spanked and demeaned all you want? That ought to get rid of these ludicrous delusions you seem to be having.

If you don't have the money to hire one, then I can count at least 10 people here who would be happy to pitch in and help out, just so that you could stop being so f***ing annoying and obtuse.

I'm not going to bother proving our collective points again, we have presented more than enough evidence. People get convicted for murder with less evidence than this for gawds sake!

So, anybody willing to pitch in? All donations can be sent to:

Get Barak some S&M action
c/- QGL

And everybody still beating their head against the Barak brick wall, just remember this:

"Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!"

Regards,

Lycomedes.

HAHAHAHHA i cant believe the number of TOTAL LOSERS who even bothered to respond to me, i was just s*** stirring adn saying exactly what i knew woudl get you all going, i cant beleive you fell for it, hope you had funtypignthose replied in your induced fury having your gamer ideals challenged

pfft asif i give a f*** which is better i justpaly gaems thati liek and coudn't give a s*** about anythign else

poof things, tehn fact that you even argued proves you cant hack anyone giving s*** to the things you worship, which are opengl and ID, haha morons

anyhow im gonna go play some cs, see ya fags

doesn't change the fact that you enjoy the feel of your lips around another man's cock

Am I the only one who finds it suspicious that Barak came clean about what was obvious to anybody with half a brain only when somebody implied that it was the case?

Oh, and Barak, for god's sake, do yourself a favour and go to an Adult Literacy class, your writing is pathetic.

if i wish to attempt good grammar and spelgin i will but im ggoing for speed here and i cant type andi dont give a f***

and i didn't bothe rto read althe posts so i didn't catch anyone suggesting that that was what i was doing

i think your still feelign angry after i challenged ID and opengl, poor geek

"Direct3D = renderer from god"

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Barak, you are stupid. That's all that need be said. I mean come on have you actually USED D3D for anything lately? I know I haven't. You know why? Cause its S-H-I-T. Looks almost like a gaystation on my pc :) with all its pixelated slowness.

More seriously, I like the Quake3 engine, it looks purty, I just don't like quake3 the game. :)

lyco yes this sudden turn around smells

could barak have finnaly woken up

its a pleasent thought but i dont think it has happened
not just yet.

the way to tell of course is to insult masterblaster and see if barak comes running to his aid like the little bitch he is

That's funny Barak, I go for speed as well, yet relatively few errors, how does that work?

Why would I feel angry about that? Obviously in the fantasy world you live in your mostly indecipherable drivel is what would constitute a challenge. All I saw was a half wit who in the face of overwhelming opinion was yet again clinging to some ridiculous notion to save face.

The point that was trying to be made was proven to the intelligent users of this forum a long time ago now. Ever since we've just been shaking our heads in disbelief at the fact that you could be doing this again! Apparently, even though we are all still skeptical, you were having us on. If you are really just a troll then I must say you are willing to go to great lengths to get the responses you crave. Don't bother pointing out the irony of my replying to your trolls either, I'm aware of it.

Finally, define geek. I do not care in the slightest what you think though, if what I am qualifies as a geek in your eyes, then I couldn't care less either way. Why don't you think harder next time you want to insult someone.

err, i coudlnt' care less, i simply dont care this is a s*** talking thread. i dind't go to great lengths at all, i made short sillyposts and peopel replied with all their ID worhipping fantatical raving ranting responses, andi fond that amusing

and err, ok pete just for you:
i was totalyl seriosu taht is what i raely believe
there ya go...as if i give a s***

f*** guys come on - I have to agree with Barak. If you believe him to be such an idiot why bother tyoing those HUGE posts (that no one, least likely Barak read).

Make your answers short and to the point guys.

If he was stupid enough to believe the stuff he was saying there is no way he could have worked out how to turn on his computer in the first place anyway :)

Just to go off topic a bit, I thought OpenGL on Windoze still used the hal interface like Directx. No way they'd let software touch the hardware like in the DOS days. It get's enough blue screens as it is.

Epic says all over the download page that many Ogl calls aren't supported by windoze ogl. Must be hard trying to make all those glide calls in ogl. They wouldn't exist.

Maybe the next engine will be better on my geforce. The loki ogl drivers for windows don't help, even with compressed texture support. Then again 75FPS is fast enough to compete against other modemers.

Q3 does 90FPS but it tells me my serial number is no good on line. It's a new, bought CD. that sux .... Stinking buggy game it is. Too easy to hack into it and cheat. I won't mention the trees/scenery in FAKK2. bwahhahaa ...

i tried the loki ogl drivers and they seemed a lot faster than the default ogll rendering
but i think d3d was faster but i dont konw exact fps casue i dont knwo how to check fps in UT.
what's the command?

GO to console and type "How slow is cpmuter in this s***ty game" :P