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Martz
tubby
Posts: 1311
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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The new Nissan GTR will be available to Australia sometime in 2009 and sold for over $150k..
After the longest striptease in history, the new GT-R is finally almost nearly here; and is definitely for sale on our shores. http://carsguide.news.com.au/story/0,20384,22569295-21822,00.html?from=CG_email sorry not sure how to link properly. |
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| #0 08:52am 17/10/07 |
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system
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--
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HeardY
Gaelic newb
Posts: 15080
Location: Ireland
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| #1 09:04am 17/10/07 |
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mongie
Posts: 4499
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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Its not ugly you spastic, there are however about 100 cars I'd pay $150k+ for before I bought it.
RS8, 911, M3, etc... |
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| #2 09:08am 17/10/07 |
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paveway
Posts: 6125
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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should be alright
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| #3 09:20am 17/10/07 |
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TiT
Posts: 1286
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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I like it!!!
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| #4 09:28am 17/10/07 |
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paveway
Posts: 6126
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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the VQ35dett should be pretty hot, still won't ever sound like an RB though :\
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| #5 09:30am 17/10/07 |
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StreX
Posts: 5841
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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yeah i'll get one. |
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| #6 10:24am 17/10/07 |
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teq
Posts: 294
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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R34 > that pos
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| #7 10:28am 17/10/07 |
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Reverend
Posts: 907
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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what do you lot think of the New lancer??? im thinking of getting the vrx , i hate the new subaru it looks like a daewoo for christs sake IMHO |
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| #8 10:37am 17/10/07 |
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ara
Posts: 1438
Location: Sydney, New South Wales
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RS4 > RS8 |
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| #9 10:38am 17/10/07 |
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spoon
Posts: 82
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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Looks like a piece of s***
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| #10 10:42am 17/10/07 |
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shad
Posts: 2074
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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Was thinking of getting a impreza until I saw the new model =/
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| #11 10:45am 17/10/07 |
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orbitor
Posts: 7417
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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RS8, 911, M3, etc... not that easy, none of those come with 500hp from the factory :O The thing is going to be a f***ing rocket. |
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| #12 11:34am 17/10/07 |
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ara
Posts: 1439
Location: Sydney, New South Wales
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not that easy, none of those come with 500hp from the factory not that easy, horsepower isn't the stick that you measure everything against. also, nissan are serial over inflaters when it comes to performance stats. last edited by ara at 11:45:42 17/Oct/07 |
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| #13 11:45am 17/10/07 |
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orbitor
Posts: 7418
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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you're right, the stick you should use is the badge right?
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| #14 11:55am 17/10/07 |
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teq
Posts: 296
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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no silly billy, its fuel economy and number of seats/cup holders
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| #15 11:57am 17/10/07 |
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ara
Posts: 1441
Location: Sydney, New South Wales
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maybe, but the stick wouldn't be nissan. they may put riced up engines into production cars, but they don't know how to setup a cars handling, or interior, or finish. the fact that so many of you get them and then mod the crap out of them shows how inferior they are at setting up a good all around car. |
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| #16 12:01pm 17/10/07 |
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teq
Posts: 297
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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ara - every car is setup differently for different environments.
A standard 34 GTR would kill *LOTS* of real "super cars" around the track http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9793/typexvj8eo2.jpg nissan <3 |
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| #17 12:04pm 17/10/07 |
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paveway
Posts: 6130
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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haha what the f*** ara
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| #18 12:13pm 17/10/07 |
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Jim
Posts: 6632
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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I tend to agree to some extent, nissan make pretty sad cars as far as engineering, design and quality go and it's being reflected in their sales against rival carmakers. I suspect they're in a bit of hot water financially particularly locally cos they are doing the dumbest stuff here with their bread-and-butter models and the only explanation I can see is lack of funds
I haven't seen one of these cars in the flesh and while I'm sure it's a ripsnorter in the speed department, I'd be thouroughly suprised if it was a well-built vehicle and had any other decent credentials - and yes, absolutely just because it has a nissan badge on it 150k my ass |
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| #19 12:30pm 17/10/07 |
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Alt_F4
Posts: 289
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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They are great cars stock, they just also happen to be great cars to mod as well. |
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| #20 12:31pm 17/10/07 |
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orbitor
Posts: 7419
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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but they don't know how to setup a cars handling, haha, ok. so why is the GTR beating the $300K+ 911 turbo on the incredibly challenging Nurburgring course, and is expected to give the $1m Carrera GT a good run for its money? Nissan imports make for relatively cheap and reliable performance, and modification parts are very cheap and accessible. These are the reasons they're popular here. I'll happily concede Nissan's interiors and finish quality aren't up there with lots of the Germans, but I'll argue they their sports range are just as good mechanically. |
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| #21 12:51pm 17/10/07 |
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paveway
Posts: 6132
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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who the f*** buys a sports car for fancy interior? just extra weight
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| #22 12:53pm 17/10/07 |
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ara
Posts: 1442
Location: Sydney, New South Wales
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Nurburgring Lap times i see a little * there. |
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| #23 01:02pm 17/10/07 |
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teq
Posts: 299
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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(*street-legal only in the UK)
whats your point |
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| #24 01:09pm 17/10/07 |
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ara
Posts: 1443
Location: Sydney, New South Wales
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that is for the first car, not for the GTR you nub. |
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| #25 01:10pm 17/10/07 |
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teq
Posts: 300
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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(* not an official source)
whats your point it says they were tested by two independant drivers I see a 'nissan s***box' has smoked some million dollar cars on that list which also have *'s next to them go home |
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| #26 01:12pm 17/10/07 |
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ara
Posts: 1444
Location: Sydney, New South Wales
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dude, learn to read. 7:15* -- 170.48 km/h -- 2008 Nissan GT-R, 450 PS/??? kg (*mfr.) provisional entry it was a time that wasn't done by the course computer. it was a time from someone at the track just watching, it was also a time from a manufacturer's car, not a release version. how many more exceptions do you need? |
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| #27 01:19pm 17/10/07 |
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teq
Posts: 301
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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1 more
who gives a f***, it's a poor mans super car and its beating all the rich men |
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| #28 01:26pm 17/10/07 |
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ara
Posts: 1445
Location: Sydney, New South Wales
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my arguement was if i had 150$K to spend on a car, it definately wouldn't be a GTR. |
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| #29 01:28pm 17/10/07 |
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Jim
Posts: 6634
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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yeah exactly
I don't care how fast it goes, it simply isn't the point as far as I'm concerned - as long as it's reasonably zippy that's enough for me. I'm more interested in the engineering that's gone into producing the vehicle overall, and the overall vehicle dynamics in more scenarios than just screaming around a track as fast as possible irrespective of comfort and longevity |
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| #30 01:35pm 17/10/07 |
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mission
Posts: 3390
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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Agree with Jim.
Nissan appear to be dieing a slow death. |
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| #31 01:39pm 17/10/07 |
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paveway
Posts: 6133
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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congrats, you guys aren't interested in fast cars
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| #32 01:41pm 17/10/07 |
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Mantra
Crusty old man
Posts: 1761
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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I agree with Jim because he says things like "ripsnorter".
Also, does this apply to the Patrol Jim? |
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| #33 01:41pm 17/10/07 |
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teq
Posts: 302
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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Jim drives a nissan?
well isn't that the pot calling the kettle black |
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| #34 01:43pm 17/10/07 |
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orbitor
Posts: 7420
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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I don't care how fast it goes, it simply isn't the point as far as I'm concerned - as long as it's reasonably zippy that's enough for me. Then why are you even commenting about a car that is obviously designed to be slightly more than 'reasonably zippy'. 'Reasonably zippy' describes a f***ing Smart car or something. |
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| #35 01:43pm 17/10/07 |
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paveway
Posts: 6134
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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orbs is firing up
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| #36 01:45pm 17/10/07 |
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Jim
Posts: 6635
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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I am interested in fast cars paveway :)
I read the stats on this car a while back and was probably heard to utter a phwoar or two. it's not the sole point of interest for me is all all I'm saying is that 150k for this car doesn't sit. and as I already admitted, I've never even seen one, I am only judging by it's badge. but if past performance is at all indicative of future performance, I don't think it's a particularly ignorant call to make. have a bit of a clue orbitor, take it in context |
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| #37 01:59pm 17/10/07 |
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teq
Posts: 303
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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| #38 02:03pm 17/10/07 |
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Jim
Posts: 6636
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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and yeah I do drive a nissan pootrol - it's a lot closer to being a SUPER car than this ricey thing :) I'd go as far to call it an UBER car
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| #39 02:16pm 17/10/07 |
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maxe
Posts: 12618
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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brand new, factory standard nissan -> yawn
regardless of performance |
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| #40 02:31pm 17/10/07 |
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leb
Posts: 1155
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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Yeh fo real id rather drive around a silvia to...
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| #41 03:02pm 17/10/07 |
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demon
Posts: 3046
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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pretty exxy for a datsun :D
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| #42 03:03pm 17/10/07 |
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Obes
Posts: 5510
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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180B coupe with a turbo!
... or are they rebadged 120Y's ? |
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| #43 03:05pm 17/10/07 |
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paveway
Posts: 6135
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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leb, it's not about silvia
it's about if it's falling apart, it's cool |
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| #44 05:15pm 17/10/07 |
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CeMaX
Posts: 261
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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Nissan usually seem to get it right in the sports car department. And the motors in these vehicles are as reliable as any. They have had success with the S14, i believe it was sports car of the year on release. The S15 & 350z have been as popular. And the GTR has a mantra of its own. Hell, it really wasn't all that long ago people were paying up to $100k for a second hand R34 GTR. Horses for courses, particularly more horses.
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| #45 05:34pm 17/10/07 |
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Spook
Posts: 19837
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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i cant believe people be hatin on nissan
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| #46 05:36pm 17/10/07 |
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maxe
Posts: 12619
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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it's about if it's falling apart, it's cool not cool, just interesting its why i like you so much mate, you're a f***ing trainwreck on legs. lets hang. |
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| #47 05:40pm 17/10/07 |
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paveway
Posts: 6138
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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also, everyone hated on the R34 when it came out aswell
now everyone hates on r33's |
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| #48 05:41pm 17/10/07 |
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maxe
Posts: 12620
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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whos everyone?
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| #49 05:59pm 17/10/07 |
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paveway
Posts: 6139
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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EVERYONE
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| #50 06:06pm 17/10/07 |
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eK
Posts: 10268
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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I actually quite like the finished version.
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| #51 06:20pm 17/10/07 |
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Spook
Posts: 19838
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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:(
i like 33's |
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| #52 06:26pm 17/10/07 |
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AvaLon
Posts: 59
Location:
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nissans for the win! new gtr looks hot!
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r263/MrGhettoPanda/A2-1.jpg i couldn't do this is i didn't own a nissan. nissan power! i swear the japs engineer them to be easier to drift and mod! im a bit biased but every drift day i go to there are lots more nissans on the track than any thing else. at the end of the day the Toyota's are being towed home! |
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| #53 06:37pm 17/10/07 |
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GaZ
Posts: 1493
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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Jim:- I tend to agree to some extent, nissan make pretty sad cars as far as engineering, design and quality go and it's being reflected in their sales against rival carmakers.
I will kill you.. oh yes.. |
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| #54 06:42pm 17/10/07 |
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Jim
Posts: 6637
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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no u
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| #55 06:55pm 17/10/07 |
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whoop
Posts: 11827
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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Its not ugly you spastic, The f*** it isn't. Forget the ugly tree, that car got f***ed up by the entire forest. |
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| #56 07:04pm 17/10/07 |
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Spook
Posts: 19841
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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you got f***ed up by the entire ugly forrest*
*note: ive never seen whoop, im just going with what others have told me** **they mite not have actually seen whoop either |
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| #57 08:05pm 17/10/07 |
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Bullet Rain
Posts: 7841
Location: Other International
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It's fuggin ugly as your mother's evil twin.
This is what i want (if it ever goes into production): http://www.zercustoms.com/news/images/Volkswagen/Volkswagen-Golf-GTI-W12-650-11.jpg |
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| #58 08:06pm 17/10/07 |
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Jim
Posts: 6638
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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heh that thing is a monster
did you see what a bitch it was anywhere other than a straight line though |
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| #59 08:12pm 17/10/07 |
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whoop
Posts: 11836
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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*note: ive never seen whoop, im just going with what others have told me** I am the ugly forest. |
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| #60 08:20pm 17/10/07 |
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Bullet Rain
Posts: 7842
Location: Other International
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With 12 cylinders, top speed of 325km/h and 650 HP all you need is a straight line.
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| #61 08:43pm 17/10/07 |
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Vash
Posts: 1406
Location:
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All that matters is a stock Ducati Desmosedici for 120k less will beat it on the straights, corners and in style.
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| #62 09:14pm 17/10/07 |
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paveway
Posts: 6142
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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and kill you 100x quicker
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| #63 09:15pm 17/10/07 |
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Vash
Posts: 1407
Location:
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only if youre a pussy
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| #64 10:39pm 17/10/07 |
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sLaps_Forehead
Posts: 3082
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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oil has jumped up $5 to $85 a barrel. |
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| #65 11:37pm 17/10/07 |
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HeardY
Gaelic newb
Posts: 15081
Location: Ireland
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hahah yes I'll take teh w12 650bhp golf
giddey up |
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| #66 07:12am 18/10/07 |
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teq
Posts: 305
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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All that matters is a stock Ducati Desmosedici for 120k less will beat it on the straights, corners and in style. cars are quicker than bikes down straights and especially around corners go lookup lap times for bikes vs. cars @ QR or any motor sport track You simply can not enter a corner as fast as a car, when you're on two wheels |
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| #67 07:51am 18/10/07 |
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Alt_F4
Posts: 291
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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No way, most decent sports bikes will have no trouble posting a 10.x time on the quarter mile. Not many supercars can do that. AFAIK only a very exclusive group of super cars can manage that. |
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| #68 08:19am 18/10/07 |
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teq
Posts: 306
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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Ok, you on your bike vs. me in a GTR down a straight - sure you might have the advantage until BEFORE the corner where you have to brake hard and I'm still balls out about to hit the corner at a much faster speed than you will ever be able to.
I then exit the corner faster and I'm front of you by a fair distance, so much so that you won't catch up and by the second corner you have no hope in hell of getting near me again. lets compare Phillip island lap times Troy Bayliss (2 wheels) - 1:31.888 Simon Wills (4 wheels) - 1:24.2215 not a small margin and bikes don't come much quicker than that. if you're about to argue 1/4 mile times, don't even bother the thread was about cars, cars that are driven every day and go around tracks occasionally edit: http://www.phillipislandcircuit.com.au/lap_times.php last edited by teq at 08:38:34 18/Oct/07 |
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| #69 08:38am 18/10/07 |
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shad
Posts: 2077
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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Why are you comparing a production motorbike to a f3000 racecar?
I think the funnier one is that a learner legal motorbike in QLD has a faster laptime than a v8 supercar. last edited by shad at 09:05:09 18/Oct/07 |
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| #70 09:05am 18/10/07 |
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teq
Posts: 308
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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despite the 250cc rule, there are quite a few bikes that are 250cc or less and still can't be ridden on a provisional license
in anycase, the point was about cornering - bikes dont do it well |
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| #71 09:12am 18/10/07 |
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TiT
Posts: 1287
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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I think for $150k i would buy a M3.... they are the sex
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| #72 09:19am 18/10/07 |
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orbitor
Posts: 7421
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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nah the new M3 has been bangle-ised and looks s***, which is a pity cause it's otherwise awesome.
I miss the E46 :( |
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| #73 11:40am 18/10/07 |
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Bullet Rain
Posts: 7843
Location: Other International
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wtf is bangle-ised.
Like bangle-ising your mum? |
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| #74 12:58pm 18/10/07 |
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Idol
Posts: 1099
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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| #75 01:01pm 18/10/07 |
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AvaLon
Posts: 60
Location:
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| #76 07:15pm 18/10/07 |
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fpot
Posts: 14747
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland
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Not even this thread can bring klayman back after exis revealed the truth.
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| #77 07:17pm 18/10/07 |
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paveway
Posts: 6146
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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i could deal with being seen in one of those
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| #78 07:36pm 18/10/07 |
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Damo
Posts: 2849
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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| #79 07:59pm 18/10/07 |
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shad
Posts: 2079
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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The more I look at it, the more I like it.
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| #80 08:16pm 18/10/07 |
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Martz
tubby
Posts: 1312
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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yeah i have to admit it looks great, but not $150,000 great.. Also, carsguide estimate it to cost "over" $150,000...
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| #81 08:24pm 18/10/07 |
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mission
Posts: 3393
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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I think it looks good. But theres a few other $100k+ cars on my shopping list ahead of that one.
$150k for a Japanese car? Tell 'em they're dreamin'. |
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| #82 08:48pm 18/10/07 |
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sLaps_Forehead
Posts: 3083
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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oil hit almost $90 a barrel
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| #83 12:14am 19/10/07 |
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orbitor
Posts: 7422
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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and it's so worth it, mmmm sweet oil. gonna go burn some this morning.
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| #84 07:42am 19/10/07 |
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HeardY
Gaelic newb
Posts: 15085
Location: Ireland
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I am joining the 'if I had 150K to buy a car, it would be a Nissan, club'
OK f***ing 150K for a Skyline... |
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| #85 07:56am 19/10/07 |
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HeardY
Gaelic newb
Posts: 15086
Location: Ireland
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also the more I see it, the more I am starting to like it, but... the price tag is...
the engine is pretty sweet though, twin supercharged ~350kW |
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| #86 08:01am 19/10/07 |
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Martz
tubby
Posts: 1313
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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the engine is pretty sweet though, twin supercharged ~350kW really? where did it say that??? |
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| #87 08:16am 19/10/07 |
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paveway
Posts: 6154
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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yes heardy, supercharged
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| #88 08:28am 19/10/07 |
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Damo
Posts: 2850
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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it's Twin Turbo not super charged
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| #89 08:34am 19/10/07 |
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fpot
Posts: 14748
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland
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Heardy's newbness is the only thing supercharged here.
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| #90 02:17pm 19/10/07 |
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CHUB
Posts: 3377
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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The rear looks pretty ugly to me, otherwise it's a fairly hot looking car.
WTF @ the price tag though. |
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| #91 02:25pm 19/10/07 |
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maxe
Posts: 12627
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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it'll go through one owner and the price will halve
noone buys jap sports cars new anyway, except for homos and queers |
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| #92 02:56pm 19/10/07 |
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DirtyApe
Posts: 292
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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For those of us who don't have a spare 150k to spend. I can recommend a Mazda3/6 MPS, I have just got the 3 MPS and I can assure you it f***ing moves. It is pretty f***ing quick for the price and doesn't attract the eyes of the pigs.
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| #93 03:17pm 19/10/07 |
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teq
Posts: 322
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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f*** yeah, f*** this, f*** that, f*** pigs, f*** f*** f***
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| #94 03:22pm 19/10/07 |
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DirtyApe
Posts: 293
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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f*** yeah, f*** this, f*** that, f*** pigs, f*** f*** f*** Kiss your mum with that mouth? In that case how does my cock taste |
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| #95 03:25pm 19/10/07 |
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teq
Posts: 323
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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.. a mum joke, that's all you've got
why even try? |
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| #96 03:30pm 19/10/07 |
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DirtyApe
Posts: 294
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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why even try? Let me guess you are going to take the high moral ground. I on the other prefer the less subtle approach as it usually works very well for me. I swear a lot, don't like it keep it too yourself and stop crying. Don't do it cause I think i am tough I do it because I know no better. |
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| #97 03:35pm 19/10/07 |
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teq
Posts: 324
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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i thnk u r a dikhed
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| #98 03:43pm 19/10/07 |
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DirtyApe
Posts: 295
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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i thnk u r a dikhed I think you are right, it is all part of my charm. |
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| #99 03:46pm 19/10/07 |
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orbitor
Posts: 7423
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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I have just got the 3 MPS ur raced |
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| #100 05:07pm 19/10/07 |
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CHUB
Posts: 3379
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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All you rich QGL car guys need to setup a Sigma and come race at Archerfield Speedway.
Just knock the windows out, slap in a cheap rollcage, bolt the doors/bonnet, grill to replace the windscreen and put in a body-harness = the win. I set up my last car for only $800 all up (including buying the car), the advantage is you can drive rough as f*** and you won't cry like the other blokes that spend $2k on custom paintjobs (for a Sigma, lol) then get t-boned. Seriously, come race carnts. |
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| #101 05:16pm 19/10/07 |
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Damo
Posts: 2853
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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chub..should see a mates oldskool lancer..
1974 la lancer weighs 800kg, astronII engine that puts out 380rwhp, :P |
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| #102 05:36pm 19/10/07 |
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paveway
Posts: 6157
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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why don't you bring it out to QR chub
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| #103 05:58pm 19/10/07 |
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CHUB
Posts: 3380
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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why don't you bring it out to QR chublol sif, it's a death trap created to race on dirt vs. other Sigma's :) Nothing like fanging a Sigma wagon sideways on wet mud and slamming some noob into the wall (then getting black flagged, but it's worth it). I did have a couple of goes in the sedans @ Archerfield, didn't go that well though, not used to V6's/larger cars on the dirt. |
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| #104 06:16pm 19/10/07 |
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EniGma
Posts: 5296
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r187/90LAN/cruise24.jpg
Now THIS is a GTR. NUR spec R34 with BBS rims. Sooo hawt. |
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| #105 07:46pm 19/10/07 |
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Bullet Rain
Posts: 7847
Location: Other International
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Around the bends, i find your mum a lot more satisfying.
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| #106 07:49pm 19/10/07 |
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mission
Posts: 3394
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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Cool, it even comes with an ironing board.
The Japs think of everything! |
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| #107 07:49pm 19/10/07 |
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paveway
Posts: 6161
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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yeah thats so hot nigs <3
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| #108 11:20am 20/10/07 |
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Spook
Posts: 19855
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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I have just got the 3 MPS i got the suprise of my life turning onto william jolly saw what i thought was a vanilla (read "slow") madza 6 behind me, gassed up to get through the orange, and he followed me through and then went past me :( hes damn lucky i dont race on the streets, else he would have been in for one |
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| #109 07:48am 21/10/07 |
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TufNuT
I like eel pie
Posts: 3304
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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god damn thats is one ugly car
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| #110 08:57am 21/10/07 |
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Reverend
Posts: 909
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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^ what he Said
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| #111 09:40am 21/10/07 |
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paveway
Posts: 6168
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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hes damn lucky i dont race on the streets, else he would have been in for one so you won't go to the track and you don't race on the streets f*** you are soft |
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| #112 12:13pm 21/10/07 |
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Spook
Posts: 19858
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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:(
only in the middle |
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| #113 02:09pm 21/10/07 |
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system
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--
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| #113 |
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