imo it needs a truely scalable client.
Quake, Quake2, Quake3 are still all playable.

Just needs a standard for the "rules and physics" (eg. dll/so or quakec) and a standard for the network communication.
Then clients could be truely scalable from quake style perfomance and lack of pretties through to quake 4 lack of performance and excessive pretties. So people with turbo (pc's) can get their turbo benefits (better performance with more pretties) while the people in their datsun 180s can still go to the corner store.

For some people they love the pretties and realistic models and the insert crap here. But even back in the end of quake 1 there were people with nice video cards who prefered to play with picmip "dogballs" and set_video = "blurry as all f*** so I get 400 million fps".

Why can't a game perform as well as quake does.

ps. all you young fags who think quake 2 was the first quake need to play a real quake lan to embrace the sweetness and purity.

Just play ZDaemon

imo they should just standardise the weapons so that they're all rail guns.

Rails take the most skill to use so they should just be every weapon.

more ww2 games imo

What obes needs:

To stop living in the last century

But even back in the end of quake 1

Was Quake 1 an expansion pack to Quake?

Need more FPS that require you to find a key to get thru a door, and then times that by 10 for every level.

We already have what you are asking for Obes!
Quake.exe for ppl that like fast smooth prediction, harsh domination & chunky pixels :)
qwcl.exe for the same, but with no forward friction & only on the internet!
glquake.exe for the same as quake.exe but with pummies & cheaty water.

Quake2.exe for ppl that wanted a computer upgrade to go slower, pack up like a hoe & coloured lights!

Quake3.exe for puff-puff bounce bounce anime ppl in swish-swish toot-toot anime land!

Quake4.exe for... dunno yet :P

FPS needs less single player.

Just play ZDaemon

Sounds good to me

Lies!, sifn't the rockets. rails just take a nice fast connection speed with a smooth frame rate and some skill

when someone hits you with two middies in the one jump, now thats skill.

^

oooh too right doggy!!

Railgun is the best weapon followed by shotty with quad.

The railgun was the s***test thing to happen to quake games.

Yeah but demon ... I want it so I can play glquake against tossers with their q4

so you're saying you want to be playing quake 1 on your end against people playing quake 4 on their end?

that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard

Because the FPS genre needs more clones.

yeh smelly skill-less campers would just rail you Obes! :D

http://dem0n.qgl.org/images/qcoin.gif

:D

Maybe upgrade your comp so it can handle q4 obes? :)

Only becuase you're an idiot wet

Daoc did it. Different "client" versions playing with and against each other. Some were faster had less pretties then others, some were "required" for new content.

Even quake did it to an extent, quake, squake, vquake and glquake could all play against each other.

The point is I don't care for all the new pretty s*** in quake 4 etc, I have no issues with the way quake, q2 and even q3 visually appear. But to play the new game everyone has to absorb spiralling hardware requirements for a bunch of "pretties" that atleast a few of us don't even care about.

They spend all that time pushing the envelope, why not spending more time on scalability. Increase their market maybe ?

You oldschoolers make me laugh, still trying to rekindle that magic you felt in the old days of Quake. It will never happen. There is so much more to experience in the newer iterations, yet still you cling to the past.

Call me a blasphemous dog if you wish, but I believe a true Quake player enjoys all forms of Quake.

Oz why ? so that in 3 months when the next flavour of the week game comes out I can upgrade again ?

I have been there and done this.

I had v2-12meg SLI the day they entered the country and for 12 months it was great, for the next 12 months it was ok and after that I was behind the 8 ball (again). There is no point to upgrading your hardware.

I learnt something from my experience playing upgrade the hardware game... And its not like back then when litterally you needed it for a decent fps to be playable, we are long past that point and are now stuck in an endless upgrade circle jerk when you the consumers are paying for features you don't need to force you to replace hardware thats not broken.

Every so often I cave in and do upgrade for a game (I did it for wow) but even tho my machine will play q4 (or it better) I don't like the whole concept of spiralling requirements for no real reason.

Call me a blasphemous dog if you wish, but I believe a true Quake player enjoys all forms of Quake.

Whilst Obes cries about anything that isnt the original Quake, you have a valid point.
But to his defense, Quake was a game on its own... Quakes 2, 3 and 4 are all similar. Also, the majority of people who say the railgun is the best gun ever, really need to wake up to themselves. AZZIFEN the flak cannon in the UT series :)

oh and no instant, high damage pieces of s***, with unlimited range.

Although nothing brings me more pleasure than watching Obes cry, even he has a valid point.

last edited by casa-werk at 14:14:14 20/Oct/05

obes tell me about it mate, damn new games with all there new eyecandy, 6 month cycle to pay nearly $500-800 for a vid card damnit. :P

ill be sticking to my R420 16 pipe card for at least 1-2 years dont care if newer games run slower paid $720 for this bitch >:(

But that said all these new games have a total new level when it comes to polygon count + texture size they are allmost movie cgi quality and that in its self is pretty mind blowing, i still remember Q1 and thought to my self wonder if ill see pre-rendered style 3d in my life time hehe yep allmost there.

PS. i still have 2x Voodoo2's stashed somewhere :P

last edited by 0z at 14:20:12 20/Oct/05

nice retort obes, but that doesn't change that fact that what you're asking is ridiculous, technically you would need a different set of physics, netcode prediction, raycasting, hitmeshes, running speed for each version of quake, let alone having to create 4 times the assets and levels, so your precious quake 1 maps could run on all 4 game engines. Then you've got the fact that playing with quake 1 weapons etc vs quake 4 weapons would be a nightmare for balance, 3 different railguns alone vs the none in quake 1.

HDR adds gameplay - those whose eyes have adjusted to the outside light have an advantage over those who just come out.

Dynamic lighting allows for more involved and realistic gameplay.

Greater view distance with same detail allows for a bigger battlefield with more options than close combat.

Lens flare, water reflections, bump mapping, all these spectacular technologies require improved hardware to run. You are entitled to be mad at Quake 4 because it's the same old s*** as the rest (I don't give a flying f*** if I offend any fanboys). There's nothing new there, just improved graphics using an engine that is extremely sluggish.

However when these technologies are used for gameplay, that's when you need to realise it's important the industry moves forward. Games like "The Hidden" would not be possible without such improved graphics and everyone playing the same client. You must also realise cheating is an important factor. Engine have their flaws and there are obviously more exploits for CS 1.6 than CS:S. Do you expect them to play amongst each other and be on a level playing field?

I'm happy to upgrade my computer every now and then, as long as it's for a worthwhile experience. World of Warcraft is something different to what we've all seen, so it's exciting and fun. Quake 4 is basically Doom 3 multiplayer with different maps and weapons so it can go and get f***ed. Scalable client won't work because of support and logistics issues. If you want to play Quake 3, then play it, if you want to play Quake 4, then get your wallet out and prepare to pay for some hardware cause everyone else is.

If you're sick of upgrading just to play the latest games then I'm afraid you've got the wrong hobby and should move on to water polo or backgammon.

backgammon is cool

Obes, is wetwired still trying to make you feel bad? I cant tell.

Every so often I cave in and do upgrade for a game (I did it for wow) but even tho my machine will play q4 (or it better) I don't like the whole concept of spiralling requirements for no real reason.

While I do agree with some of your points, largely on the scalability of newer games to work on older systems. I think what you're looking for in terms of hardware can be found in console gaming. Once the Xbox 360 hits for instance, you're not going to need performance upgrades on it for a good 4 years, minimum.

dias, you blasphemous dawg! :D immediately play 12hours of Duel on DM4 as a penance or suffer an eternity of hipdm1 beez!

we all know what a flop those 'generations' patchs that they made for q2 & q3 to try & combine the good points from all the Q's... just duzzn't work. i have no illusions that what made quake so great was simply that it was the first big online gaming community... but plz! don't gimme this "There is so much more to experience in the newer iterations" ... coz there really isn't. it's just more of the same that looks a bit different & plays a bit different.

however there is nuthn quite like talking s*** about other games as if they were really inferior on gaming forums... it's like quintessential nerdiness! son in closing, yur games suck, Quake 4 lyphe. :D

Dan, I am not looking for it to be "fixed" at a hardware end.

I am looking for software to become more scalable... There is no technical reason why a client can't keep rules and physics in a dll (quake and quake 2 prove that) and there be a set method of communication (A network protocol) then as long as the client complies to both those 2 things its all good. And that all your pretty BS graphics, sounds, customised gesutring models (yawn), dynamic lighting.

Those things do effect the first time playability and the single player experience... But for long term replayability (eg. playing the same map for 48 hours straight) they don't actually negatively impact on the thing imo.

Quake CTF on powerup was the best ev0r

Meh, I'll stick with my PC till either the Geforce Fx5900, Athlon or mobo dies. once one of them dies I'll upgrade.

I've had Doom Vs Doom II multiplayer working before.

It occured due to miscommunication. My friend launched Doom, while I launched Doom2 and tried to connect. We got into our games and found the other player walking into walls and stuff.

I was like "Wtf are you doing to the wall dude .." and he was thinking the same of me. We then looked at each other's monitors and stared in amazement that we were playing separate games.

This lasted a minute, until both games crashed due to subtle protocol differences.

Also, you can play Duke3D against yourself by plugging in a C64 joystick into the serial port and pushing the stick at a certain angle. The data leaves the port, loops back in via the joystick and makes Duke3D think that there's another player. The other player basically mimics your exact movements/key-strokes.

It was pretty fun shooting yourself with a rocket :P

last edited by parabol at 16:24:46 20/Oct/05

Sif quake doesn't own. Got it again recently to have a play on it but for some reason I am getting mouse accel in the game. It's rather annoying so havent played it yet, just watched some demos. Some of the demos coming out now for it are amazing. That is one of the problems with games, just as people start becoming really awesome at it, something new comes out.

how come CS is still alive and quake is long dead?

everyone has their own quake:



Mine was q3

my brothers was q2

Old c***s played straight q

Has anyone even mentioned CS, or is this hijack time?

q1 loved it for team based play, TF ect.
Q2 loved it for AQ2 mod
Q3 never played it much, boring

q2ctf

i'm liking q4 alot, it's just missing those important things like brightmodels, a proper tournament mode and turn off own footsteps ><

QUAKE 2!! ITS WEAR THE MONIES HAT.

http://www-pub.naz.edu:9000/~nazeq/images/SusanMoneyHat.JPG

last edited by d0mino at 19:11:29 20/Oct/05

haha

Some good points from Obes (and against too). It'd depend on where the important calculations get done. For example if there are complex physics calculations are they done on each client or on a server? Taking HL2 Deathmatch as an example (sorry to go astray from Quake for a sec) you have physics objects that can be affected (I assume Q4 does as well?) So which PC and which engine handles the physics calculations when a barrel is shot and it bounces into a plank which falls onto another plank knocking it to the floor?

The point I'm trying to make is it's NOT just pretty graphics that is affected. It's also physics and that affects gameplay and affects the power of the PC required to play it. If the world was static and you couldn't affect anything other than other players then I guess it'd be feasible to have multiple/scaleable clients. All you'd need to do would be have a standard netcode core that sends positional information. All the rendering and audio (prettyness) could be done at the client.

Again though that falls down if there are visual cues generated. eg: A player casts a shadow in Q4 but not in Q2. So if they're standing near a light source the player on the Q4 client sees the shadow and knows there's someone hiding around the corner. Still... that in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing. It disadvantages the person on the *older* client not the newer. Where it works in reverse (as someone already mentioned) is where the old client doesn't do stuff like HDR and subtle colours. Then they could see a character model that stands out like dogs balls where the Q4 player has to squint through lens flare to see a camoflaged model against a dark wall...

It'd be interesting to take the Q3 source and see if you could get the netcode talking to a Q4 server. Since the source is available that's theoretically possible...

Q2 loved it for AQ2 mod

AQ4 plz...


hmm.. RA4 would be nice too

last edited by koopz at 19:07:49 21/Oct/05

AQ2 was the greatest :)

rM owned all :D

dias, you blasphemous dawg! :D immediately play 12hours of Duel on DM4 as a penance or suffer an eternity of hipdm1 beez!

hey I've been blasphemoous too, please give me my punishment of 12 hours of dm4 with hipdm1 bees for dessert

I was kinda hoping that you'd deliver the dm4 punishment to the infidels! I'll bring the BEES, np.

how come CS is still alive and quake is long dead?

CS is designed for people who like fps games but don't have any of the skills required to play fps games.

Now that's just a silly comment.

i think the fps genre needs less bitching and moaning. but hey thats just me..