Alright so results are meant to come out at midnight tonight.

What grades are we expecting guys? Anyone graduating?

Dayum was about to go to bed but remembered they're coming out.

Just hoping to pass all my newb subjects.

Graduating with my bachelor of engineering (maj: chemical)

In a perfect world i will get 7 6 6 6 this semester but i have nfi how i did in exams (and final 40% assignment they didnt release it) so could even probably get something along the lines of 6 5 5 4 (hopefully worst case scenario, could even be worse i suppose). Hoping absolute minimum of 6 6 5 5.

Yeah that about covers every bloody option, hope they dont take till 2 or 3am like other times.........

"View Results" link appeared, i clicked it and its loading as we speak.

Not sure i wanna look lol.

Argh, it's getting hammered, I can't get in Cap'n!

Indeed it is, page not loading

"View Results" link appeared

Yep I clicked it, error, logged me out.

OK guys, I got a killer plan - you guys stop trying to log in, I'll log in and get my results, and give you guys the all clear!

Ok... NOW!

If i can log back in... can just open the view results link in a tab till it works.

I got a better plan, open 20 browsers and hammer the s*** out of refresh on all of them so nobody gets em

I'm trying to migrate my session from my.uq to sinet, to avoid the login screen ..

^^ tis what im doing, no success

Well I'm in sinet .. just browsing around in the shadows, still can't get the Results link to work.

Is there any other place inside sinet where the results are shown?

YES logged in. Now just need results page to load.

Also logged in, also unable to get results page to load

So how is chemical engg? My dad does it, makes huge $$$ working with oil companies.

Degree was the biggest c*** of a thing, final semester basically at uni all weekend every weekend and 1-3 allnighters every 2-3 weeks (even for the hardcore studyers). Got a job lined up with good money but hoping its not a super c*** like the degree. If i had my time back.....might have done a business degree.......

I like the content, really interesting and challenging but just the workload kinda thing, going to see how it goes

PS. reruns of the practice with alan shore on tv for people waiting

btw what the rest of you people doin

pps bored of this error message

I'm busy hatin' on the new SI-net. I'm so glad I'm graduating so I don't have to deal with its bulls*** for another semester.

I like it better than the last version. Ironically its giving me an error while trying to view my results.

Hey straw hat hippie, did you ever do any work experience? Im first year university doing bach of biotech and I hear work experience is extremely important. But Im not exactly sure how to go about getting work experience and when the right time is.

last edited by sif greazy at 02:09:05 28/Nov/07

yea im in the same boat

if i pass my bachelor of science (honours) i can do medicine next year,

so i cant fkn sleep atm

Hey straw hat hippie, did you ever do any work experience? Im first year university doing bach of biotech and I hear work experience is extremely important. But Im not exactly sure how to go about getting work experience and when the right time is.

Yeah man did some at the end of second and third years. Engineering faculty wont give you your degree unless you have done 60 days of it. Vac work was great but pretty easy cause they dont want to give you too much, if real work was like vac work id be in heaven.

ahh thats right, I remember hearing about engineers having to do experience work.

edit: who changed my name? haha thats pretty funny.

last edited by sif greazy at 02:23:10 28/Nov/07

Hey straw hat hippie, did you ever do any work experience? Im first year university doing bach of biotech and I hear work experience is extremely important. But Im not exactly sure how to go about getting work experience and when the right time is.

Oh yeah as for the second part. Definitely get it the holidays before the year you graduate. Careerhub (UQ site that deals with jobs n stuff) has heaps of job offers which you can apply to.

Also, the obvious one is checkin out companies that deal with biotech. Websites are your best bet, look for a vacation program. Also, just email the company, email whoever you can and BUG THEM. Companies are bloody lazy and like when you show your keen. Engineering ones are the most common id say so you would have to look around. I dont know much about biotech (definitely talk to lecturers, friends n the like). Obviously a chemical engineer is going to apply to process orientated companies like oil refineries (shell, BP ect) or metal refining (BHP ect). Hell, id advise to get work experience every holiday break if you can get paid for it. If no pay just do it at time i specified. Finally, the uni somtimes puts on research type jobs where they pay you over the summer break. The work mightent always be the best but they pay you and will look good on your resume. As an engineer we dont need to do work experience for free (the boom at the moment) but youd have to talk to some people in the know about your circumstances. Again i know little about biotech, but it might be harder for you to get work experience so you might just have to go NUTS with applications. Remember, show your keen, be persistent.

Hope that gives you some idea.

Again im tired so more stuff is just coming to me

Big blocks (i.e the big 3 month holiday your currently on) are good times to do some quality experience work, though im sure if you did your whole degree working part time for a biotech company that would not hurt your chances. I dont see why you wouldnt get as much (again, if paid) as you can, job dudes will love it. Please talk to some people more experienced in your specific area to see how its done for you guys but. Theres no real right answer i dont think except do as much as you can i suppose.

I've looked into getting work/work experience under researchers, but most of them after students with a GPA of 6+. Which is just crazy, I mean my GPA at the moment is a solid 4 but then again it is my first year.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, oh and I have never heard of Careerhub, thanks! It looks extremely useful.

Im not exactly sure who to talk to in regards to work experience. I have emailed a lecture or two and slightly hounded him when he mentioned that he is looking for first year students to help him out. But the program he mentioned turned out to be starting this year or something.

I know you said go around emailing companies, I will get right on it tomorrow, but who else can I talk to, to get some info? Do guidance officers help at all?

I just got my results! Keep trying guys.
6,,6,5,4. I was hoping for 3 sixes but oh well, we'll have to try harder next time.

fuk yes 6,6

not sure wat honours class that is

but i think i should be ok

Im not exactly sure who to talk to in regards to work experience. I have emailed a lecture or two and slightly hounded him when he mentioned that he is looking for first year students to help him out. But the program he mentioned turned out to be starting this year or something.

I know you said go around emailing companies, I will get right on it tomorrow, but who else can I talk to, to get some info? Do guidance officers help at all?

To be honest since we are doing lots of group work in eng talked to heaps of people and everyone just kind of talked about different companies and the like. Guidance officers eh? Meh, talk to them, why not though im not sure how useful they are, all i really used them for was approving my electives.

Btw have a dig at getting your GPA above 5, would look good to the companies. Best way to do this is find a group of people to study with/trade prac answers. Mates helped me no end to get through my degree. Do past exams for study as well (heaps of lazy ass lecturers who cbf changing tests from year to year). Hell, you might know all this, and as a result, i think i shall be silent now. Cant think of too much more at the moment on jobs cause tired.

Yay got em

6,6,6,6 which i am quite happy with, though some of my subjects were fairly easy so a tiny bit miffed not one seven :( (But i must emphasis i am not dissapointed with straight sixes at all!)

Yeah Im going to try and get my GPA to be around the 6 mark. For my degree, honours is compulsory and the requirement is a GPA of 4.5 (which I just achieved). But I would like to get into class A honours.

Thanks for all the help, Careerhub looks awesome but I think its mainly targeted towards those who are finishing/ed their degree but its going to be useful for a source of info for where to look for company wise.

Thanks again.

Edit: Awesome, now if only I can go out like you... I would be a happy man.

Talking to the gf on vent. She just checked hers, just finished her honors year, semester GPA, 7. She worked hard for it though, should get her first class honours with first sem gpa of 6.8.

Me on the other hand i did better than I thought haha.

yo kr0wb4r, how does she know what honours class she will get?

i got 6.00, is that 2a? thats all i need im hoping i get it

Which is just crazy, I mean my GPA at the moment is a solid 4.

A solid GPA of 4 is a solid “I’m not quite useless enough for the lecturer to fail me, but I’m close”.

but then again it is my first year

First year subjects are the easiest to get high marks in.

#edit: Wait, I sound overly critical and I don't mean to be. What I mean to say is that there is very little to be proud of by just passing, unless that is the best you can possibly do. Academics don't respect people who "just pass" and employers who recruit graduate positions won't even read the rest of your resume.

If you're capable of getting 7s then you should aim for them. I mean, you're paying $20k-$35k for your degree, you might as well get as much out of it as you can.

not sure wat honours class that is

Honours isn’t based off of GPA, it’s based off of the marks (i.e. 1-100) you get in all of your honours years subjects; although, it’s a good indicator that you’ll do well. IIRC you’ll need 80% or higher to get Honours I, so if you have a GPA of 6 and a 6 is 75%-85% you’ll probably get it.


last edited by typo at 08:17:12 28/Nov/07

Jabroney what was your result for your Gamsat?

How do you get results for everything that you've done to date? You used to be able to print out a academic profile, but now i cant find anything on this new mySI-net...

Got a 5 for a subject worth 8 units, 5 for subject worth 4 units and SP (Special Examination Approved) for another worth 2 units...Funny how you work twice as hard as previous years and get s***ter results...meh.

How do you get results for everything that you've done to date?

They've disabled that till tomorrow.

WHEN THE f*** DO QUT RESULTS COME OUT!!!

Seriously, this is getting me cut.

A solid GPA of 4 is a solid “I’m not quite useless enough for the lecturer to fail me, but I’m close”.

QFT

Anyway, got an 8-unit straight 7s semester to finish off my degree, which I'm pretty pleased with. It's funny how I always do much better when I stick to software courses, rather than mixing in some damn arts ones.

If you read the QUT academic calendar it says the will be released the 3rd December. So next Monday. Be patient young padawan.

Anyway, got an 8-unit straight 7s semester to finish off my degree, which I'm pretty pleased with. It's funny how I always do much better when I stick to software courses, rather than mixing in some damn arts ones.

That's because Humanity based subjects are usually more subjective in their marking styles, and if you're going to take a step away from the verbatim of the lecture you need to justify it (although, if you do it well you get rewarded).

Unlike software subjects, where as as long as you can pass the assignment testing there's no need to justify s***.

That being said, the subjects I learnt in humanities based subjects is what keeps driving my salary up each year.

This was shaping up to be my best semester of uni, having got 90 - 100% on all pieces of assessment for every subject up until the exams... then I got pwned by some hard exams (and mis-reading an exam paper:( and ended up with a disappointing 5 5 5 6.

This was shaping up to be my best semester of uni, having got 90 - 100% on all pieces of assessment for every subject up until the exams... then I got pwned by some hard exams (and mis-reading an exam paper:( and ended up with a disappointing 5 5 5 6.

I really hated that aspect of assessment. The only good thing about exams is that it shows that you're not a cheating f***, or at least you're so good at cheating you deserve to pass. However, it's hard pressed to make an exam that actually tests students understanding and knowledge in any kind of realistic way.

6 6 6 5

damn that 5 but if i get 4's im happy ;)

<3 education

I see typo is still a pretentious prick trying to educate everyone! Don't worry I didn't get offended by the 'solid GPA of 4' comment.

I really hated that aspect of assessment. The only good thing about exams is that it shows that you're not a cheating f***, or at least you're so good at cheating you deserve to pass. However, it's hard pressed to make an exam that actually tests students understanding and knowledge in any kind of realistic way.

I know what you mean... the only problem is, the subject I was caining in and did the most study for actually had the best sort of assessment: multi-choice and short answer that hardly hinted at the theories they were asking about, but instead would describe a scenario and tell you to analyze or describe it in theoretical terms... so it was actually applying what we had been taught to "real world" scenarios, rather than actually asking us flat out what we had remembered.

I think that's a great way to test students, but I had no idea that's what it was going to be like (neither did anyone in the class) and everyone did really poorly on it. Hardest exam I've ever sat for serious. Went from a solid 7 to a solid 5:/

I know what you mean... the only problem is, the subject I was caining in and did the most study for actually had the best sort of assessment: multi-choice and short answer that hardly hinted at the theories they were asking about, but instead would describe a scenario and tell you to analyze or describe it in theoretical terms... so it was actually applying what we had been taught to "real world" scenarios, rather than actually asking us flat out what we had remembered.

I think that's a great way to test students, but I had no idea that's what it was going to be like (neither did anyone in the class) and everyone did really poorly on it. Hardest exam I've ever sat for serious. Went from a solid 7 to a solid 5:/

I don't get this? If you learn the stuff well enough to expect to do well in an exam why wouldn't you be able to apply it to new situations?

I guess a lack of practice. I had no practice in applying the theory to the real world scenarios - we were just taught theories and the research which I sort of rote learned. It's not like I failed the test, I just could have done A LOT better if I had some experience in what the exam was like.

last edited by B.Hardball at 12:10:13 28/Nov/07

6 6 7

graduating too...GPA 6.33 :D:D

I see typo is still a pretentious prick trying to educate everyone! Don't worry I didn't get offended by the 'solid GPA of 4' comment.

haha. He might be pretentious but you need a reality check. A GPA below 5 is flakey as f*** and even then, a GPA of 5 aint anything to be stoked with.

IT musn't be very hard to get good marks in

6 5 5 4, for me...at Griffith though

I see typo is still a pretentious prick trying to educate everyone! Don't worry I didn't get offended by the 'solid GPA of 4' comment.

Hey, I might be a pretentious prick, but that doesn’t mean I’m wrong. Students who’s GPA is < 5 are generally useless turds and waste their degree.

IT musn't be very hard to get good marks in

IT is the same as most degrees; some subjects are easier than others. The problem with IT at UQ (at least in the past) is that there are no defined majors, so you can essentially graduate with an IT degree majoring in nothing much as you pick and choose your way through the easiest subjects known to man kind. However, there’s plenty of difficult subjects floating around and most students who aim for 7’s tend to aim for them.

#edit; also UQ has bought in majors which will drive people into more meaningful (and difficult) subjects.


last edited by typo at 14:31:36 28/Nov/07

She worked hard for it though, should get her first class honours with first sem gpa of 6.8.

A GPAs of 6.8 and 7 mean that at minimum your girlfriend scored.

75, 85, 85, 85, 85, 85, 85, 85 = an average of 83.75% which is more than enough for 1st class honours.

In all reality she might be up for a University Medal.

Students who’s GPA is < 5 are generally useless turds and waste their degree.

haha, what a reeeeeetarded generalisation

haha, what a reeeeeetarded generalisation

If you extend your GPA out over the number of years that it took for you to complete your degree dinosaurs would invade from UFOs in the shape of pirate ships.

The only people who seem to disagree that 4 students are useless turds are people who generally got 4s.

Depends on the degree.

If you're doing something fairly straightfoward (set job at the end) and only undergrad, 4's are fine.

f*** doing extra work for 7's in say a B.Education

If you extend your GPA out over the number of years that it took for you to complete your degree dinosaurs would invade from UFOs in the shape of pirate ships.

I dont even know what this means, maybe my GPA wasn't high enough to understand the sort of maths that means how long a degree takes affects a GPA?

The only people who seem to disagree that 4 students are useless turds are people who generally got 4s.

or maybe its people whose GPA was so high they realise that what you're saying is retarded?

Getting high marks at uni isn't easy, but even getting 4s means you did better than like 95% of the population of the rest of the world that doesn't have degrees. Trivialising that accomplishment by arrogantly dismissing them as idiots is just plain f***ing rude.

What about people that have part-time/full-time jobs, family, other responsibilities and don't have all day to spend on study. They probably work very hard indeed and may only have a small amount of time to dedicate to learning and get 4's and 5's.

There are plenty of reasons why someone gets a GPA of 4-5. Being lazy is but one of them.

Depends on the degree.

If you're doing something fairly straightfoward (set job at the end) and only undergrad, 4's are fine.

f*** doing extra work for 7's in say a B.Education

QFT.

You either go all out for 7's or settle for 4's.

Getting high marks at uni isn't easy, but even getting 4s means you did better than like 95% of the population of the rest of the world that doesn't have degrees. Trivialising that accomplishment by arrogantly dismissing them as idiots is just plain f***ing rude.

The difference in understanding between a 4/5 and a 6/7 is massive. Maybe its different in IT but in the pure sciences, I don't understand how you can be anything but incompetent in your field with a GPA of anything below 5.5 (which is the honors cutoff incidentally) It might be unfair that some people have much heavier burdens and much tighter time constraints as a result but that doesn't change what they know.

i'm starting uni next year and only really aiming to get through it, my experience in the industry is going to be greater than any 4 or 7 i get for subjects



last edited by paveway at 15:57:31 28/Nov/07

IMO:

Experience > Degree (regardless of GPA) > No Degree

Experience > Degree (regardless of GPA) > No Degree

Depends on the area. It's hard getting into research without a degree. Standard jobs aren't so restricting though, but I'd probably apply the following:

Degree + Experience > Experience > Degree (regardless of GPA) > No Degree

So I'd agree someone with only prior experience would do better than someone fresh out of uni without any experience. But having both is obviously a much more of a win. Also, people with a GPA above about 6.5 are pretty much set for life and can pretty much dictate many of their employment terms. Usually you find them being interviewed by Google and Microsoft in the same week :)

The difference in understanding between a 4/5 and a 6/7 is massive.

I find the difference between just a 6 and a 7 to be phenomenal. Sets apart those who specifically study for exams and those who understand the material well enough to be able handle any relevant question in the subject, in an exam or otherwise. Aiming for 7s is a major killer though. Have to make quite a few sacrifices.

I agree that it's probably not worth it if you already have (or are guaranteed) employment or are just trying to finish off the degree in an area that you're already adequately skilled in (which I believe troggles was implying).

last edited by parabol at 16:13:46 28/Nov/07

The difference in understanding between a 4/5 and a 6/7 is massive.

Again that's just a generalisation that isn't always true.

I think typo's (valid) earlier point about exams being a tough way to get assessed proves that wrong. You've already heard anecdotal evidence from B.Hardball about how he probably should have got better marks but just got jipped by the exam. Are you telling me you've never had an exam that caught you by surprise and caused you to drop a grade?

You're saying there's a really big difference between understanding when someone got a 5 and someone got a 6, when clearly they're only one mark apart. Missed out on a 6 by one percent, and what do you get? Not an automatic cursing into "not as good as someone that got a 6-dom". You just get a 5.

You're just assuming "what someone knows" is perfectly reflected in how they're assessed!

You've already heard anecdotal evidence from B.Hardball about how he probably should have got better marks but just got jipped by the exam.

Keep in mind you get the freaks who get 100% while the rest get owned by an unfair exam :)

Happened in a course of mine last semester, and due to one person getting full marks he wasn't able to scale the rest of us up. Some people just get awesome marks regardless of the difficulty :/

Also, people with a GPA above about 6.5 are pretty much set for life and can pretty much dictate many of their employment terms. Usually you find them being interviewed by Google and Microsoft in the same week :)

I know a girl who got more than 6.5 GPA and she was accepted into a very exclusive Post Grad course in England... she spent a lot of her time in the library (but she was also a very well adjusted, cool chick). She now works as a secretary somewhere in Briz...

Most likely she'll rocket up the ladder, but more because of her people skills and general work ethic than her uni grades.

I find the difference between a 4/5 and 6/7 is about 8hrs study.

I think that in other states like NSW and Vic you actually get a decimal grade, which is far more advantageous than QLD...

eg. In QLD if you get 74% you get a 5, whereas in other states you get a grade more representative of your score, like "5.9". Anyone verify? If it's true, that means that there GPA's will be pulled up much more than QLD'ers, as ours are always rounded down (unless you're half a percentile off).

Before some retard comes in and says it, I'm obviously not saying that people that get 6/7 are stupid or lucky or whatever (though the 6s and 7s I got I don't think were due to my studying habits). I'm just saying that calling people that get 4/5s stupid is unfair.

I know a girl who got more than 6.5 GPA

What field?

I was implying more the general IT/comms/science area. Obviously if you study the migration patterns of gay african hippos, then there may not be that many jobs going around :)

I think that in other states like NSW and Vic you actually get a decimal grade

I was planning on applying to Uni of Melbourne and they just use a percentage based system. They told me it'd be to my advantage if I got my UQ grades as a percentage when applying ... so yes, it's a bit crap getting a 5 when you're at 74.49%.

I'm obviously not saying that people that get 6/7 are stupid or lucky or whatever

Regardless, many are :/

Many postgrad degrees mainly consist of international students who don't know that much (just enough for entry), and they just study (and plagiarise assessment) together in large groups to get high marks. You'd probably find the 4/5 students probably understand the content more than them. Usually if the exams differ from the previous year's greatly, there's a huge failure rate due to the ROTE approach going terribly wrong :)

But yeah this going a bit off-topic.

Getting high marks at uni isn't easy, but even getting 4s means you did better than like 95% of the population of the rest of the world that doesn't have degrees.

That’s irrelevant to the argument. The majority of the worlds population can’t read, does that mean we can just piss in the air about how awesome we are?

Trivialising that accomplishment by arrogantly dismissing them as idiots is just plain f***ing rude.

There’s a couple of simple facts that you seem to just ignore:
1) To be accepted into University means that you’ve passed the minimum qualifications that suggest you’re able to pass everything in first year.
2) If you’re smart enough to enter University, you should be pass enough to do more than the absolutely bare minimum you need just scrape a pass out of your arsehole.
3) I included up there somewhere that people who got a 4 but “did the best that they can possibly do” are the exception to my generalisation.

The only thing you need to do to scrap a pass is to deliver the content that the criterion asks for. In most cases that content is provided for you all you have to do is make some sort of half assed attempt at finding the content and jamming it into your assessment.

What about people that have part-time/full-time jobs, family, other responsibilities and don't have all day to spend on study. They probably work very hard indeed and may only have a small amount of time to dedicate to learning and get 4's and 5's.

I suppose that would be a borderline 3, but it depends on the person. There’s plenty of students who are working full time, have kids and s*** who still get solid marks (5s and 6s).

i'm starting uni next year and only really aiming to get through it, my experience in the industry is going to be greater than any 4 or 7 i get for subjects

It really depends on where you’re working and what you’re doing. Upon graduating all of the students who’s GPA was ~6 or greater got gigs very quickly and most of them started between 55k-65k. Almost all of them have thrived in their positions and at their reviews have been nothing but blessings.

Getting a good GPA opens up opportunities at University that most students don’t get. In my case it was getting 3 years of experience at a consultancy while studying, and 2 years experience working in a research centre (which happened to be researching the focus of the consultancy I was in). I’m not some sort of unique snowflake either; the other honours students who got exposed to opportunities while studying are all thriving in business.

Graduate Entry positions, i.e. positions planned to accept graduates and guide them into a career, have minimum requirements of 5.5 GPAs. Getting 1-3 years planned exposure can be a massive boon to a graduate’s career.

So, sure, experience +degree > experience > degree > nothing, except you’re going to come out with less skill and knowledge in your degree than kids who worked hard.

Note, I’m not saying that you can’t succeed after only getting 4s. Rather I’m saying that you’re wasting your time at University and you’ll pay for it … eventually. Either from lost opportunities, those 8% hecs repayments, or both.

Depends on the area. It's hard getting into research without a degree. Standard jobs aren't so restricting though, but I'd probably apply the following:

Also, other countries value education. Look at the UK, many positions ask for people with Honours II.A, or a Masters in a subject matter or extensive (5 years) experience.

Are you telling me you've never had an exam that caught you by surprise and caused you to drop a grade?

Unless you’re saying that it should be normal for someone to get surprise sexed by every single exam, your point here is meaningless.

I’d also like to point out that B.Hardball got 5.25 GPA in a semester where he got f***ed hard by exams. To get a 5 after getting 90% on assignments means he must have totally failed a 40%-50% exam.

I've been there before, it sucks, however that doesn't mean that it's a trend or a justification for why students should think it's fine and dandy to get a pass degree.

When I was at University I could sense pass students in a class.

eg. In QLD if you get 74% you get a 5, whereas in other states you get a grade more representative of your score, like "5.9". Anyone verify? If it's true, that means that there GPA's will be pulled up much more than QLD'ers, as ours are always rounded down (unless you're half a percentile off).

Each University is different when it comes to marking. Some have your grade out of 100, others use the 1-7 system others the 0-4 system.

I quite like the 0-4 system (fail, pass, credit, distinction, high distinction), but I would have preferred the grades out of 100. I can’t remember the number of 7s I missed out on by half a percent :P

Many postgrad degrees mainly consist of international students

To be fair, most postgrad degrees these days are Masters by Coursework and are just a way for Universities to get more money with less cost.


last edited by typo at 17:06:58 28/Nov/07

To be fair, most postgrad degrees these days are Masters by Coursework and are just a way for Universities to get more money with less cost

Agreed. Money is part of the reason why plagiarism is tolerated to an extent too :/

Unless you’re saying that it should be normal for someone to get surprise sexed by every single exam, your point here is meaningless.

No it isn't; that point was raised in response to qmass saying there's a huge difference between 4-5 and 6-7

Dam, got 7 6 6 3. Must have got raped hard by the exam, hopefully should be able to take a supp.

Also, typo hasn't pointed out that even though you may have a lowish gpa, 4-5.5ish. You can still go for your honors providing you cain in your final year 6's and 7's. To be given a run at honors you need to show that you can deal with the work that you will be undertaking.
Although this is a case by case chance at the discretion of the Uni.

Im willing to bet my left nut typo did an IT degree. It's quiet different in science, and as B.Hardball said experience > GPA. Now I'm not pulling this s*** out of my ass. We had a person from Kelly Scientists speak with us about what companies look for when they hire and experience in the field is #1 while GPA is down the bottom.

I may have gotten 4's, I may be stupid but god damn at least I'm doing something. Not everyone is born a genius like you typo.

All Hail typo the know-it-all!

By the way typo, when did you graduate from university?

Edit: Tollaz0r!, to enter honours in my degree I need a GPA of 4.5.

last edited by sif greazy at 20:31:44 28/Nov/07

Where on Sinet can you find out your GPA???

Where on Sinet can you find out your GPA???

Midnight tonight they'll unlock the Studies Report, with full course history and GPA.

Otherwise do it from memory with Excel.

hang on.. why would I need Excel? isn't it just an average.. explain..

GPA FOR -234.2323 f*** I:M f*** WORKING IN MACCAS FOR REST OF LIFE>>>> f***!!!

hang on.. why would I need Excel? isn't it just an average.. explain..

Or do it in your head, on a calculator or an abacus.

Point was you it's quicker to calculate from memory than wait for Sinet, assuming you remember.

I think that in other states like NSW and Vic you actually get a decimal grade, which is far more advantageous than QLD...

In WA we get a percentage and a corresponding HD,D, etc.

I think what frustrates me about people who just cruise through uni and get average marks is that they end up out in the marketplace with the same degree you got. Unless, as an employer, you specifically ask for an academic record, you really can't tell on paper who has put the most effort in and who, in turn, knows the subject matter better. This devaluates the degree.

Let's face it - if you get 51% that means there's a hell of a lot you don't know about the subject matter covered in the unit (exceptional circumstances excepted). Oh, and I am speaking here from a commerce/IS perspective.

awesome, 4,4,4,5

far better than my 2,2,2,5 last(first) semester

hang on.. why would I need Excel? isn't it just an average.. explain..

IIRC its not just an average, its weighted by units as well

#edit: Wait, I sound overly critical and I don't mean to be. What I mean to say is that there is very little to be proud of by just passing, unless that is the best you can possibly do. Academics don't respect people who "just pass" and employers who recruit graduate positions won't even read the rest of your resume.

Really? My GPA of 4.1 got me a pretty good job, I'm probably younger than you and I'd guess I earn twice as much.

Your stupid generalisations are just that, stupid.

Getting good marks at Uni isn't difficult, some people just prefer to get their bit of paper and get the f*** out of there and into the REAL world.

I'm back at Uni again now doing my Post Grad and getting much better marks, not becuase I wor harder - but because I'm studying in my field of employment and I don't need to study at all.

Good luck with your high GPA, you will need it with your attitude.

Really? My GPA of 4.1 got me a pretty good job, I'm probably younger than you and I'd guess I earn twice as much.

That's great, but in something like EE someone with a GPA of 4 is going to know sfa compared to someone with a 5.5+. This becomes especially evident during team projects. Of course there are exceptions, but that's exactly what they are, exceptions. Granted GPA has more or less weight depending on what field you are in. My sister did accounting, got a similar GPA to you and is now making £80k (she did have to study her arse off to become a CA though).

Anyway, as for me this semester, I got 776. A bit annoyed with the 6 but all up a pretty good result considering I was zonked out on morphine at the time :)

Of course there are exceptions, but that's exactly what they are, exceptions

Yeah what people don't realise is that for every exception (one or two always pop into these threads boasting how much they make) there are 10 other people going "ah f*** I wish I tried a bit harder", but it's too late by then. Exceptions are just that :)

The sole reason I did my Masters was because my undergrad GPA was pretty crap. A few years of laziness ended up costing me an extra year of study to make up for it (for my career path anyway) :/

What are you doing next year Matt?

last edited by parabol at 21:41:44 28/Nov/07

Maybe its very different in IT but everything I have seen within molec biology/chemistry a GPA of anything below 5.5 is for s***. Christ, without honors or even a PhD/Masters are you pretty much boned.

Getting high marks at uni isn't easy, but even getting 4s means you did better than like 95% of the population of the rest of the world that doesn't have degrees. Trivialising that accomplishment by arrogantly dismissing them as idiots is just plain f***ing rude.

Have to agree with trog. I have a GPA over 6 but still think a GPA of 4 shows that someone is competent at learning the material. Stop scaring the poor kid with the GPA of 4. Don't worry I had a GPA of 4.75 and raised it to over 6 in 2 years so you'll be sweet if you put the effort in.

knowledge based degrees, the GPA is clearly more important. Which is why his stereotype was so stupid.

What are you doing next year Matt?

Studying at the University of Wisconsin next semester. I am being dicked around by their course sign on but I'll probably do photonics, electric circuits II (hopefully a non-crap elec3400) and medical instrumentation. Second semester I'm doing coms7306, advanced comms and starting my thesis (finally!). I'm doing my thesis with Nick but I'm still mulling over a few different topics. I'm half considering doing my MSc in EE (wireless) at the Technical Uni of Denmark (DTU) when I finish my BE. That's if my grades are good enough to get my tuition waved and get me a stipend though :\ Their wireless engineering program is phenomenal and a few of the professors I know over there are champs.

Are you considering doing your PhD overseas now that you have your masters? If so check out DTU. Chosen a topic yet, or an advisor? When do you find out about APA scholarships? Must be exciting organising everything, I'm jealous :D

Really? My GPA of 4.1 got me a pretty good job,

Did you go into academia, or get a graduate entry position? Or did you just get a normal position out of University?

As I said further down, getting a pass GPA doesn’t mean an automatic failure, but it’s a waste of your time.

I'm probably younger than you

Probably.

and I'd guess I earn twice as much.

You might be. How long have you been out of University, what did you get in your first year after graduating, and what are you on now?

I’ve mentioned through-out this thread “generally”. That means two things, 1) in general people with pass degrees are no where near the quality of those with high-distinction degrees (when it comes to understanding the subject matter), and 2) there are exceptions to generalisations.

If I said, “in general, the people who are on centrelink benefits are useless bums”, I’d be right. In general most people on centrelink benefits are useless bums. However, there are exceptions, students and pensioners are not, necessarily, useless bums.

Getting good marks at Uni isn't difficult

Actually, that’s kind of my point. If you’re smart enough to go to University, you’re smart enough to get good marks. As such, if you’re smart to go to University, and fail to get good marks, you must be a lazy turd or you’ve got massive issues.

In general, the kids who just get by with passing grades don’t understand nearly as much about the subject content as the kids who get awesome grades. It’s a fact of life. Why sit around with your dick up your arse when you could be getting the most out of your 20-35k HECS debt?

get the f*** out of there and into the REAL world.

You’re already there for 3-4 years and paying a decent sum of money (or will be paying back a decent sum of money) for the privilege of going there. You might as well do the best you can do. Besides, by working your arse off at University opens up more opportunities to get better gigs in the “real world”.

Good luck with your high GPA

As I’ve mentioned my high-gpa opened up a lot of doors for me. Not only academically, but career wise.

Have to agree with trog. I have a GPA over 6 but still think a GPA of 4 shows that someone is competent at learning the material.

In my experience, as a tutor, the students with a GPA of 4 really never learnt anything beyond there immediate needs. Quite often they would be required to re-learn content from previous subjects to pass current subjects because they didn’t remember it. Hell, in programatical subjects, pass students are the kind of student who’d get half way through an assignment, realise that they have 50%-60% and just stop.


last edited by typo at 08:46:11 29/Nov/07

Studying at the University of Wisconsin next semester

Sounds good Matt, check your private messages (don't want to continue this conversation in the thread).

getting a pass GPA doesn’t mean an automatic failure, but it’s a waste of your time

seriously, biggest load of crap ever

Typo, are you dirty that people can put in way less effort then you at uni, pass, get an OK job and be very happy with life?

Why should a person work his/her arse off if they happy to work at half pace and are happy with were they end up. For a majority of those people getting 4's I would bet they are quite happy with were it got them.

Typo, are you dirty that people can put in way less effort then you at uni, pass, get an OK job and be very happy with life?

No, not at all. Otherwise I'd be dirty at a bunch of my friends from Uni :P

However, it usually takes much longer to get to better places than if they just did the work in the first place. Looking at the graduates from my year, the high-GPA students all got great opportunities out of University, quickly. The majority of the low-gpa students went to helpdesk, a few went to low level developer/admin gigs.

In fact, the vast majority of them would have been better off going to TAFE, and working their way up with pure vocational skills, instead of pissing their HECS debt down the drain.

I know heaps of kids from Uni who "just got 4's" and were happy with them who now just can't get a break but deserve so much more. I'm sure they'll get there eventually, but if they just worked hard at Uni and got awesome marks, they would have had a better chance for success earlier.

Why should a person work his/her arse off if they happy to work at half pace and are happy with were they end up.

That's either poor forward planning or some awesome retroactive justification. You don't know what cards fate is going deal out, so you might as well be prepared for anything.

For a majority of those people getting 4's I would bet they are quite happy with were it got them.

Happiness is relevant.

In regards to happiness.

LOL that's exactly the sort of study we looked at in the subject I had the hard study for. Unfortunately I know all those facts that that guy mentions in that vid, but it didn't help me on my exam:(

I actually don't know anyone that I did CS with that was even remotely interested in their GPA, or if they were they never discussed it. I have friends that I'm sure got good GPAs - some went straight out of uni into good jobs, and some went out into "low end dev jobs" (market is quite a bit different now so I think it'd be a different story).

Similarly some of my friends with average/passing GPAs went out and got awesome jobs and some got 's***' jobs. I definitely heard more stories about Arts-types with very high GPAs that couldn't find work - though I guess that's the risk of some Arts degrees if you're studying history or whatever.

The only people that I know that religiously cared about GPAs were the lawyer-types, because it's sooo competitive to get into the top-tier firms straight out of uni. But even then, if you didn't mind "slumming" it in a smaller firm for a couple years apparently the path to top tier firms after that is pretty easy.

So yes, if you can get a good GPA straight off it's probably going to put you in a better position sooner, but it's certainly not going to close doors (except MAYBE in research but I don't know anything about that so can't comment. Chakas might know more, but I doubt it because he has fundamental misunderstandings about his subject matter for his PHD so he prolly has a really low GPA).

Anyway, my net advice would be go for a high GPA if you can do it without compromising the rest of your life, but don't kill yourself for it. Of course it should be noted that following my own advice meant 11 years from start to finish for my degree! So my other round of advice is, don't get distracted by real world serious jobs while you're studying; they're often heaps more interesting than uni. Put your head down, get a part time job at coles or something that you can do with your brain turned off.

Huh?

Seriously, for science GPA is important if you want to get into research. The trend is towards not hiring anyone without at least honours for even a basic RA or technician job (unless you have experience i.e. have been working in the field since before honours was a psuedo-requirement). Because of this competetion for honours spots in good labs can be tough and GPA helps (but is not all important). In taking the next step to a PhD or Masters it counts even more. GPA is taken into account for the allocating of scholarships and hence needs to be good, these scholarships are even more competitive and crucial if you want control over your own research.

you know, your misguided believe that viruses are not life (wait, is that what you believed or what I believed?)

Haha you idiot.

My entire desired future at the moment depends on my GPA... but as can be seen from the vid typo posted, it won't be the end of the world if I don't get it;)

Good convictions trog.

haha typo

YUOR SO SMART

haha, Cool Video Typo.

What I got from that is you are better off to do average at Uni and get yourself locked into low end jobs where you have no choice about where/what you can do. Then your synthetic happiness will kick in and you will be happier then the people have many choices but don't get the job they most want, and just as happy as the person with many choices who gets the job they most want.

HEheheeh

Its taken me a while to figure out the key to all of this s***, at least in science. (Im like 5 years out of high school now and only just finished first year of the degree I want to be in - did cheffing and other random s*** while I figured out what I was doing) To do well I stopped thinking about my grade. If you are constantly tallying up % of marks from each piece of assessment and thinking that then you just need a 60% on the final to get a 5 or if you are constantly s***ting yourself because every single thing you do must net 90%+ then I feel sorry for you. What I realised I needed to do was actually care about what I was learning. (which may seem obvious, however I take it further) My drive is to know and understand the work I do better than all the other people in the course because I want to know it so that I am actually good at what I do. If I do that, I get good marks and that whole part takes care of itself. All I'm concerned with is knowing enough to make myself happy - which turns out, is enough to get a 6 or a 7. (plus knowing that I have learnt everything better than other people makes me happy because Im a c***)

I guess when I reflect on that, the conclusion that I come to is that understanding the material to the degree that EVERYONE should in order to be a reasonable graduate - gets you a 5.5-6+ GPA in science. Maybe doing such an approach in IT is different. I can easily see how lots of s*** could be totally worthless in the real world in IT and learning other parts you want to know doesnt get you a high GPA. Is that the case or are all of you IT people just losers :O

last edited by qmass at 13:44:13 29/Nov/07

or if you are constantly s***ting yourself because every single thing you do must net 90%+ then I feel sorry for you

Why is that bad? In the last year I aimed for 90%+ for everything. Basically meant more room for error or unfair questions in final exams (which are usually worth heaps). It really paid off in the end: less stress towards the end of semester, as well as being guaranteed the grade I was aiming for. Though if you combine that with superficial ROTE learning (which many do), I can agree why it's not good.


last edited by parabol at 14:28:13 29/Nov/07

Why is that bad? In the last year I aimed for 90%+ for everything. Basically meant more room for error or unfair questions in final exams (which are usually worth heaps). It really paid off in the end: less stress towards the end of semester, as well as being guaranteed the grade I was aiming for. Though if you combine that with superficial ROTE learning (which many do), I can agree why it's not good.

What I mean is, if all you want is the 90% I feel sorry for you. If what you want is the knowledge and understanding because it interests you and just knowing it is enough, which gets you high marks anyway, then its a much better place to be.

What I mean is, if all you want is the 90% I feel sorry for you.

I agree with that, if the marks are the only thing that matter.

You know, nobody in the workforce has ever asked me for my GPA. I guess no one else I work with went to uni, so...

I can easily see how lots of s*** could be totally worthless in the real world in IT and learning other parts you want to know doesnt get you a high GPA. Is that the case or are all of you IT people just losers :O

The majors in IT (course IT22) are really leniant in what subjects you can choose. I mention the code because they're constantly changing the damn structure of the course. You have the core first year subjects which are all over the IT spectrum, then you choose your major which has around 3/4 core subjects and 3-5 electives and then the rest you choose whatever you want. I chose the subjects that interested me and I found I did better in them.

Looking forward to QUT being last to get results out once again. Sunday arvo!!!

3rd year mech engineering, hoping for 6655, will be very pleased with that. As for GPA etc, guess it varies how important it is with what you are doing, ill assume it is important initially for an engineering job but after that it is all about experience, got some pretty amazing contacts so I'm hoping to get some good exp before finishing uni cus my GPA sucks ass.

Though a lot of the time your GPA does reflect your work ethic which is as important as anything, certainly reflects mine, for the first 2 years at least :(

My argument for trying to get high marks is:
- By aiming to get the best you can possibly get means that you have to not only learn the basic content that is delivered in class, but go above and beyond the minimum required knowledge requirements and that this knowledge trickles down and supports future subjects.
- Students who deliver high quality work learn more than students who do the barest minimum.
- Students who continually deliver high quality work get opportunities that low quality work doesn’t provide. That is, “good” students get doors opened like research projects, tutorial experience, opportunities to ‘meet and greet’ employers as a part of University expos and meetings with employer groups, and the opportunity to get into graduate work programs.

My argument against aiming for low marks:
- Students who get low marks, generally, fail to learn (in any meaningful way) the core skills that are being offered, at least the first time round. Many ‘pass’ level students must continually ‘re-learn’ content that they’ve forgotten. A good example is third year IT students who have trouble doing relatively basic programming.
- Students who aim for low marks have a much, much, harder time getting opportunities that some other students get; e.g. most graduate programs look for a GPA >=5.5.

My understanding of the argument for aiming for low marks:
1) Why bother, chances are you’ll still get some kind of employment afterwards. (Strawman)
2) I was lucky, so you should be too. (Logical fallacy)
3) I don’t want to admit that someone who scored a 7 in prerequisite subjects is probably going to have a much easier time than someone who’s barely passed. (Stupidity)

Anyway, my net advice would be go for a high GPA if you can do it without compromising the rest of your life, but don't kill yourself for it.

I’m sure you noticed that, on multiple, occasions, I said something like “the best you can possibly do” and that I’m only bagging pass students. Getting a GPA of 5+ really isn’t that hard as long as you do the work that is required of you. Look at most Computer Science assignments as an example, you don’t even need to complete basic functionality to get 50%. Hell, basic functionality is generally 75%-85% of your overall score, with the remaining being advanced functionality.

Even then, most of the basic functionality is given away to you in course content. Essentially, if you competently piece together tutorial material and hack it together the night before the assignment is due, you’ll probably.

I’m sure you’ll also notice that I’ve never said anything like “if you don’t get 7’s you’ve f***ed yourself for life.”. In fact, the closest I’ve said to either is “if all you’re getting is passes, you’re wasting University” and in a second statement “you should try and aim for getting a 7, and be disappointed if you don’t”..

Lastly, I’m sure you would have noticed that I never said “if you only pass at University, you’re going to be some sort of massive failure”. In fact, I said something like the lines of “sure you may still end up being successful, but it’s going to be harder. (because of that lack of opportunities)”.

What I got from that is you are better off to do average at Uni and get yourself locked into low end jobs where you have no choice about where/what you can do. Then your synthetic happiness will kick in and you will be happier then the people have many choices but don't get the job they most want, and just as happy as the person with many choices who gets the job they most want.

That is a possible outcome. I suppose that’s why there are so many people who are broke, working dead-end jobs that are happy. It’s really amazing how the brain compensates to life. However, he also implied that natural happiness is also rocking, and I suppose that’s what I’m pushing here. If you piss your degree away, you may still end up being happy. However, by at least attempting to do the best you can, anywhere not just at University, opens up more doors for natural happiness.

You know, nobody in the workforce has ever asked me for my GPA. I guess no one else I work with went to uni, so...

People use this argument all the time, and it’s a strawman for two reasons.
1) Having an honours recorded against your degree is a telling sign that you’ve got a good gpa.
2) Coming out of university with some of those oppertuntities I’ve mentioned (working for research programs or as a tutor) is a telling sign that you’ve got a fantastic gpa.

Also, if GPA was totally meaningless, then why do Graduate Programs require a GPA of 5.5 or higher?

Obviously, people get gigs without having a high-gpa, just like there are employers out there who don’t understand the value of at least looking at newly graduated students records.

In the end, especially in IT, your degree and its quality won't mean a lot (other than the fact that you have it). Other disciplines as noted above have different outcomes; getting a very good result may be the only vector into your field.

Working hard and getting a good result can be its own reward professionally and personally, but it won't make or break your career.

What really makes or breaks your career is interpersonal skills. Srsly.

yap yap yap tl;dr

you could go typos way of doing nothing but study at uni and end up with some super high powered IT job (even if the degree was from UQ lolz, what happened typo, didnt do the work in high school?)

i was having fun at uni, enjoying myself

still ended up with an IT job i love, that more than pays the bills

but in typos eyes im a failure, funny coz in my eyes, hes a failure

i was having fun at uni, enjoying myself

still ended up with an IT job i love, that more than pays the bills

QTF.

People who get totally wrapped up on marks and trying to hit 7's everytime then chucking a hissy fit when they dont get it just make me lol.

But depends what the persons after so cbf argument.

you're both failures for doing IT

(even if the degree was from UQ lolz, what happened typo, didnt do the work in high school?)

You know Spook, if you removed the ad hominem attack your post would actually have some credibility.

you could go typos way of doing nothing but study at uni, i was having fun at uni, enjoying myself

I’m going to respond to this despite the fact that it is a poorly constructed straw-man argument.

Sure I worked hard, and took pride in the fact that I delivered high quality work, but you don’t have to sacrifice any fun to do that. In fact, I was the central organiser for social events within my program, both at University (Social Club) and outside of University (party lists/groups, social functions and such).

I loved my time at University; I met a fantastic range of people, many of which I now count among my closest friends; I learned a fantastic array of things that I never thought I was going to learn; and I was given amazing opportunities to make the best of my future career.

still ended up with an IT job i love, that more than pays the bills

You’re essentially saying:
You got a good job you love by just passing at University.
[Anybody] just passing at University.
Therefore, [Anybody] will end up getting a job he loves. .

but in typos eyes im a failure,

You know, I don’t think I’ve ever called, or thought of you, as a failure. Unless you count the number of times I’ve been annoyed at your inability to mount a decent argument, your inability to comprehend English, or your amazing ability to get riled up on s***.

funny coz in my eyes, hes a failure

I’m interested to hear why you think I’m a failure. I’ve got a huge group of great friends, a beautiful fiancée, a great job, a career going places, and I have hold some respectable positions in the community groups I’m involved in.

Lastly, I’m sure you would have noticed that I never said “if you only pass at University, you’re going to be some sort of massive failure”.

What you said was "Students who’s GPA is < 5 are generally useless turds" which is what I took exception to (but not because of the typo (haha get it))

Also, if GPA was totally meaningless, then why do Graduate Programs require a GPA of 5.5 or higher?

Because, short of an entrance exam, its the simplest way to determine who should be allowed in.

I know what you're saying, and I agree with most of it, just not the bits where you say people with low GPAs are useless, because it's just a rude generalisation. Getting high marks is great; if you can get them go for it - if you want to come out of uni and walk into a high powered job, then its a great way to do it. It's certainly not the only way, and it might not be the most enjoyable, but what you're saying about that stuff is certainly true.

Considering we're all learning something today, I'd like to submit for your approval Cognitive Dissonance. The idea of CD is that if you have conflicting ideas or theories, it is easiest to believe that the most external idea is wrong or false in some way.

For example, for the people supporting the passing crowd.

1. I performed to a good level at university.
2. I have a good job.
3. Someone who performs better at university will get a better job.

Obviously, not all three of these ideas can be true, either you didn't do enough work (and you have the best job available), you don't have a good job (because you could have gotten a better one by studying harder), or you worked and have a good job and (3) is false, so you wouldn't have gotten a better job.

From this, it is easy to see that if you think 1 or 2 is false, it says something negative about you. Obviously, your brain will kick 3 to the curb to preserve your fragile ego. I could, of course, do the same argument for those on the other side of the argument which shows the same thing.




On another note, I think I can contribute to the actual argument. Basically, I did 2 years of just passing my degree. I worked and 'studied', had fun, partied hardy every weekend and most of the weekdays as well. After two years of just passing (and failing) my subjects, I realised I was wasting my degree. I changed my degree and worked really hard for three years, getting a GPA above 6.9 and opening doors. Now I'm getting moved to the United States for what I essentially call a dream job, and I had to knock back two other 'dream jobs'.

The question is, having experienced it from both sides, what would I do if I had my time over. I think the answer is obvious - I would study hard again. I had to sacrifice by not having much money or as much fun, but by working hard I had tutoring jobs (which is good money) as well as scholarships and other opportunities within the university. My 'year level' is graduating this year, and most of the 'passers' are either not graduating (from failed subjects) or don't have a job. Those with mediocre GPAs have, well, mediocre jobs, and those with good GPAs are moving interstate or overseas.

Cliffnotes: I studied poorly, and then quite hard, and don't regret it for a minute. High GPA is really advantageous, in my humble opinion.

PS. Yes, I am aware I am subject to CD, that's why much of my justifiction is based on objective measures (jobs etc.).

After two years of just passing (and failing) my subjects, I realised I was wasting my degree. I changed my degree and worked really hard for three years, getting a GPA above 6.9 and opening doors

?!? How'd you fail some subjects and then end up with a GPA of 6.9?

What you said was "Students who’s GPA is < 5 are generally useless turds" which is what I took exception to

In the context of their time at University, it, unfortunately, isn't that far from the truth. As someone who's marked a huge range of different assessment (from exams, to tutorials, to written and programming assignments, to large semester long projects) students who aim for 4s are almost always useless and attempt to do as little as possible in everything they do. As always, there are exceptions, the guy who has 4 kids and a full time job and is somehow doing University full time, or the kid who has to go through massive personal disruption (like their parents divorcing, or the death of a loved on.

Yet, the kids who aim to do the very, very best they can possibly do are a positive blessing to mark in comparison.

Then you look at the graduate outcomes. High-GPA students, in general, are given better starting opportunities after graduating than low-gpa students. That doesn't mean that low-gpa students should just shoot themselves in the face, but Jesus, if they just pulled their finger out a little more they'd open up a world of options that can make a massive impact in their initial career potential.

because it's just a rude generalisation

I never disagreed that my comments were not either rude, or a generalisation. In fact, I've continually iterated the fact that they are generalisations and I quite frankly think that the pussy footing around and pandering to precious snowflakes is one of the things that's wrong with education at the moment.

Getting a GPA of 4.0 means that, at best, you almost failed every subject at University.

Getting a GPA of 4.0 means that, at best, you almost failed every subject at University.

Well, that's the glass half empty way of looking at it. I prefer to think of it as meaning "you completed the degree's objectives as set out by the university".

newsflash for typo, not everyone in the world is liek you, write that down, understand it, keep it with you at all times.

a degree passed is a degree passed, they dont print your results on the piece of the paper.

i think we all have recognised, that you were the best student at uni evar, and bully for you, we are all super impressed.

thats your way of doing things, the rest of us have different ways of going about our less impressive lives.

Getting a GPA of 4.0 means that, at best, you almost failed every subject at University.

yor an idiot

1. I performed to a good level at university.
2. I have a good job.
3. Someone who performs better at university will get a better job.

I was very careful to not suggest that.

My argument:

P - Students who perform at a high level at University get offered more opportunities.
Q - Opportunities during education can greatly impact your career initially after graduating.

a degree passed is a degree passed, they dont print your results on the piece of the paper.

From memory they do write your level of Honours on there if you achieved one (depends on degree). That's an achievement you can write on your CV for your whole career, which pretty much summarises your overall uni performance without having to talk about the specifics (like GPA which becomes irrelevant over time). Basically shows you have been a consistently hard worker throughout your career.

Though having bad performance at the start doesn't mean you can't turn it all around, as has been shown by N-Dude. I also was getting 4s and 5s, ended up failing a few courses in my time. Now with a bit more effort I'm getting close to perfect semesters, with professors noticing and offering references and recommendations when I apply for something.

One can argue it's the university's fault for allowing such little effort to result in a 4 and eventually the award of a degree. It could also be the industry's fault for requiring a degree in theory, but not really being useful in practice if you already have enough experience in the field (Bachelor of I.T).

I've done a year of both IT and Science, and eventually Engineering. During I.T I didn't really understand what they wanted me to learn or what it was leading to. Just seemed like a mix of businessy stuff (information systems) and courses bordering on computer science (networking, etc). I didn't really see the relevance of many of the courses so I can see why people don't really care about high grades in that area.

You know spook, maybe if you could construct an argument that isn't some sort of combination of personal attacks or crying then you might be able to make some sort of meaningful point.

?!? How'd you fail some subjects and then end up with a GPA of 6.9?

Using Xyzzy as an example; if you transfer degrees (in his case GU to UQ) all of his subjects that were included as prior learning were counted as "pass/fail". Passing a pass/fail subject doesn't actually impact your GPA.

Well, that's the glass half empty way of looking at it. I prefer to think of it as meaning "you completed the degree's objectives as set out by the university".

The more realistic position of a 4.0 student is someone who failed a lot of subjects, but got credits and the odd distinction when they pulled a finger out later in their degree.

if you transfer degrees (in his case GU to UQ) all of his subjects that were included as prior learning were counted as "pass/fail". Passing a pass/fail subject doesn't actually impact your GPA.

hmm, iirc it does (at least in B.Sc) if you're failing enough to get excluded, in which case I think a Pass is a 4 and a fail is a 2.

hmm, iirc it does (at least in B.Sc) if you're failing enough to get excluded, in which case I think a Pass is a 4 and a fail is a 2.

I think we might be talking about two different things, kinda.

1) A subject that is pass/fail within a program. i.e. BLAH1234 only offers two grades, pass and fail.
2) Prior recognised learning. i.e. you don't have to do subjects x,y,z because you did a,b,c somewhere else.

In the case of 1, it is probably dependant on your University and Program. However, within Engineering, a Pass/Fail subject passing doesn't impact your GPA (but a fail does). A good example of that is Research Methods, a 4th level subject that is compuslory for all Honours, final year engineering students and Masters by coursework students across all of ESPA, which is a pass/fail subject. By passing Research Methods, you'd be required to get straight 7s for every other subject to get a first class honours.

In the case of 2, it essentially just removes a subject from your require workload. So, if you've got 10 subjects that you can bring in from a different degree, you only have to do 14 subjects in your new degree to graduate. The GPA of your previous subjects is irrelevant.

ah ok yeh

A good example of that is Research Methods, a 4th level subject that is compuslory for all Honours, final year engineering students and Masters by coursework students across all of ESPA

Mmmm, not all of EPSA. I never had to do it.

hmm, iirc it does (at least in B.Sc) if you're failing enough to get excluded, in which case I think a Pass is a 4 and a fail is a 2.

I wasn't failing that badly but i did essentially fail an entire year.

It's funny how you see two basic topics about university on QGL(and on the AU interweb in general but particularly on QGL). There's the "OMG University is a waste of time" thread and the "OMG getting more than a pass at University is a waste of time" thread. Funnily enough I personally believe these two things are related. In an effort to not over generalise i'm going to be very specific to my field and the two universities I went to.

There are two broad kinds of assessments in IT. There is the "here's a description of a software product that i want you to build" type of assignment and there's an exam. (There's the odd "write a paper about..." assignment but those are a dying breed. It'd be fair to say that in an undergraduate degree you'd be lucky to do one or two a semester)

I can summarise the marking schemes for the assignments. about 5-10% of the marks you get for paying a little bit of attention. Style, No obvious(read: compiler notified) errors, add comments, that kind of thing. Another 30-40% will be essentially copy pasta from lectures and tutorials. The names get changed thats it. So already we're seeing you're almost getting 50% from blind copy pasta from tutorials. This means that 50% isn't "you understand half of the assignment" but actually "You're literate". (I've seen an assignment that you could technically pass by submitting the example code file that has no functionality but compiles properly and does nothing. All you had to do is add a comment with your student number and name...)

Exams superficially are a little bit better, in the best case they actually bring the mark down since people can get flustered and "forget" things they actually know. With some smart handling however you can focus on a few highly valuable areas and get your 50% without really knowing much. And of course don't forget that the standard "tactic" for exams is to cram a day or so beforehand. Does anyone wish to debate the point that cramming is not a long term recipe for understanding?

So here we have people (who remember have been told if you do more than is necessary to get 50% you're dumb) who have crammed enough information(with no firm understanding of what it means) to scrape 50% in an exam and have copy pasted enough code to get 50% in all the assignments and gotten their 4.

Now they get into the real world and are mixing with people who learnt code the hard way, Who never learnt what a tree is. Those people who see a problem and see whatever language it was they taught themselves. I've known many guys like this and almost universally they're very good however just as almost universally there is some area of coding that they don't really get(something that isn't well supported in their language of choice) often being more complex data structures(i'm talking at the level of Trees here). These guys are being paired with these young pups who got 50% without knowing bupkis and whats even worse they don't know how business works either(which is different to uni). Of course they're going to get the message that University taught the pup nothing. Why do we expect it to? They didn't need to learn much to get 50%.

So they come on forums and say that uni people know nothing and that university is pointless(you know who you are... i don't need to point fingers). Of course those people who are hiring people who got straight 4s aren't quick enough to snap up that fraction of a fraction that got straight 6s so the difference isn't apparant. So all the roles get filled by self taught people with a little bit of experience and people who cruised their way to a 4.

So we get this cycle where a community becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy of s***-kunts. It's really quite interesting to watch.

So i suppose the take home message here is :-
Yes, if you go to Uni and "have a good time" at the expense of getting a better understanding of your field (which should result in marks better than a 4 especially if you're in IT) then you're going to come out of university being a poster-child of the "university doesn't teach you s***" campaign because, surprise, suprise, it didn't teach you s***. Of course that fault is yours, but every university gets the blame.

Oh and just because this is my quarterly post and if you can't feed a troll every now and then the terrorists have already won...

a degree passed is a degree passed, they dont print your results on the piece of the paper.

Funnily enough i haven't heard of any employer taking graduates who has asked to see my certificate. They're more interested in seeing my academic transcript the sole point of which is to tell the reader in excruciating detail exactly what your results were. Sorry Spook, you fail yet again.

Oh and a clarification...

"you completed the degree's objectives as set out by the university"

Actually it means that you satisfied the degree's requirements to a pass level. Since even the least charitable meaning of "the degree's objectives" should include both "you understand everything" and "you can think of creative and original solutions to problems" which are the textbook descriptions of a 7, if you did what you said you would have gotten a 7 or two(or you had a degree full of hard cases but thats another argument)

Mmmm, not all of EPSA. I never had to do it.

It could have been a brain fart, or it could have been something that they are introducing to the rest of the ESPA. They started with ITEE, and were looking at expanding it due to the success of the program with ESPA being the next in line.

Actually it means that you satisfied the degree's requirements to a pass level

heh, that's a clarification?

I think the textbook definition of a 7 is just "Pass with high distinction"

Grade 4, Pass: Demonstrates adequate understanding and application of the fundamental concepts of the field of study; develops routine arguments or decisions and provides acceptable justification; communicates information and ideas adequately in terms of the conventions of the discipline: Overall mark is in the range 50 to 64.

Grade 5, Credit: Demonstrates substantial understanding of fundamental concepts of the field of study and ability to apply these concepts in a variety of contexts; develops or adapts convincing arguments and provides coherent justification; communicates information and ideas clearly and fluently in terms of the conventions of the discipline: Overall mark is in the range of 65 to 74.

Grade 6, Distinction: As for 5, with frequent evidence of originality in defining and analysing issues or problems and in creating solutions; uses a level, style and means of communication appropriate to the discipline and the audience: Overall mark is in the range of 75 to 84.

Grade 7, High Distinction: As for 6, with consistent evidence of substantial originality and insight in identifying, generating and communicating competing arguments, perspectives or problem solving approaches; critically evaluates problems, their solutions and implication

They started with ITEE, and were looking at expanding it due to the success of the program with ESPA being the next in line.

Not sure what that's about. I've done both my undergrad and coursework Masters with ITEE, never had to do it.

http://www.itee.uq.edu.au/~comp4809/

But who knows what ITEE have done in the last couple of years.

heh, that's a clarification?

I think the textbook definition of a 7 is just "Pass with high distinction"

The clarification part was supposed to be pointing out that "you understand everything" and "you can think of creative and original solutions to problems" are both degree objectives and if you completed them you should have gotten a 7. Ergo if you only got 4s you can't have completed ALL of the degree's objectives.

I probably needed more linguistic signposts.

But who knows what ITEE have done in the last couple of years.

So true. When I did it the subject was under the impression that was the last time it was being run but then Natalie did it so obviously someone realised what a collosally stupid idea that was.

Probably as they were costing their honours/masters programs.

I probably needed more linguistic signposts.

Heh yeh I was just f***ing with you really

Ergo if you only got 4s you can't have completed ALL of the degree's objectives.

I'd argue that if you haven't completed the objectives, you've failed though. Like, it's not an objective to get all that stuff in 5/6/7 above. The course objectives are things like "develop an understanding of concepts relating to Java programming" or whatever, and IMO any passing grade (even a 3!) means you've met the objectives to a level the university considers satisfactory to the point where they'll give you a degree for it

Funnily enough i haven't heard of any employer taking graduates who has asked to see my certificate. They're more interested in seeing my academic transcript the sole point of which is to tell the reader in excruciating detail exactly what your results were. Sorry Spook, you fail yet again.

i guess im just not applying for the sort of jobs you are then, coz no one has ever asked or cared about my marks, or maybe it is in fact yuo who is fail (much more likely)

i guess im just not applying for the sort of jobs you are then, coz no one has ever asked or cared about my marks, or maybe it is in fact yuo who is fail (much more likely)

yeah, because working for some hack and slash software dev in brisbane is the height of IT. :P (snap) Im not really serious but to be fair, you obviously have hugely different goals to someone that strives for 7s in all their subjects. Getting a job to pay the bills and wanting to get into research or high level, much more advanced boundary pushing projects requires a vastly different mentality to the one you apply to your job.

last edited by qmass at 15:31:42 30/Nov/07

i agree

spook is ready to settle down, pop some kids and get fat

i have two of those things covered and the third one on the way

IMO any passing grade (even a 3!) means you've met the objectives to a level the university considers satisfactory to the point where they'll give you a degree for it

ITEE no longer agrees with you there. 3s are considered a failing grade.

However, in essence of your argument, a passing grade is a comprehensive understanding of the subject matter, I would love to agree with you. A University GPA of 4 should be hard to get, with credits being an example of outstanding work with no advanced understanding, with distinctions and high distinctions breaking up awesome, awesome work.

However, in reality, that just isn't the case.

i guess im just not applying for the sort of jobs you are then, coz no one has ever asked or cared about my marks, or maybe it is in fact yuo who is fail (much more likely)

Of course, you're not a recent graduate, of course nobody gives a s*** about the marks you got when dinosaurs where roaming the earth. You also graduated when there was a massive demand for anybody who could do anything with computers.

ITEE no longer agrees with you there. 3s are considered a failing grade.

bummer

However, in reality, that just isn't the case.

What you appear to be saying here is that the people that decide on what grounds degrees should be handed out don't know what they're doing!

What you appear to be saying here is that the people that decide on what grounds degrees should be handed out don't know what they're doing!

I think they understand the realities of the private sector job market vs academia (ie. a GPA of 4 vs a GPA of 6/7) and the need to churn graduates out to pad numbers to get funding :P

Can I vote to have my thread locked? It's served its purpose (grade expectation discussion) and now it's going around in circles :/

I think they understand the realities of the private sector job market vs academia (ie. a GPA of 4 vs a GPA of 6/7) and the need to churn graduates out to pad numbers to get funding :P

While i disagree with your GPA4 => job market GPA6/7 => academia tag(Since my entire argument is essentially that if you can only get 4s, taking into account extenuating circumstances then you're probably lazy or have no ability and buisness IT is hard enough without someone of either of those stripes), i don't disagree at all to your "pad numbers to get funding" assertion. I fear it is all too true.

i guess im just not applying for the sort of jobs you are then, coz no one has ever asked or cared about my marks, or maybe it is in fact yuo who is fail (much more likely)

I'm going to respond as if you actually said something that vaguely resembled a point.

I would like to point out that i'm not talking about whatever meat grinder IT jobs you're applying for, i'm talking specifically about _GRADUATE JOBS_ where they actually want people who have _GRADUATED RECENTLY_. Since that is the most likely kind of job a graduate is generally going to get. In particular i'm responding to your assertion that a graduate doesn't need to care about his grade because "a degree passed is a degree passed, they dont print your results on the piece of the paper. " by pointing out that the only piece of paper that means dick to a graduate looking for a job is their "academic transcript the sole point of which is to tell the reader in excruciating detail exactly what your results were".

Maybe in some ultra f***ed up parallel dimension where QGLs still occur, Counterstrike was fun and not full of homosexuals and texans(5 points for picking what obtuse movie reference i'm making there) and you aren't composed at a sub-atomic level entirely of epic fail. However i prefer to live in the real world, when i'm not playing "lets pretend spook has posted a rebuttal which isn't 90% meaningless".

last edited by Xyzzy at 22:16:52 30/Nov/07

Why are you so angry xyzzy. Also mow the back yard.

Why are you so angry xyzzy. Also mow the back yard.

I'm not really angry. I'm just killing time.

Also, sure but not before Sunday.

i bet typos fiance is asian

i bet typos fiance is asian

An asian version of Typo's fiance would be hawt. And just a little bit abnormal since she's really f***ing tall. Maybe from the Chinese swim team.

post pics for lol factor

one day you tards will look back and realise your last 5 job positions were achieved based on who you know and who you were working for and no one will give a f*** about your 84.567% score on introductory tertiary level maths

when i was working in my last 'industry' job i would get job offers over the phone just because of the industry people i was speaking to on a daily basis

in fact i got my cairns job only because i met the general manager of a company from brisbane while we were both getting pissed at the casino, he knew me well and went to the local distributer and told him to employ me - he sweatened the deal by saying if he employed me he would look at the local company on an even par with the brisbane based competitors - did i have to show a resume.. no.. did anyone care i got 96% in a course at uni... no

anyway.. another thing is if u have a 7 gpa use your brains to make your own money/business and stop being a peon

zug zug - more work

i hear that hiring gamblers is awesome business strategy

good blokes = good employees

post pics for lol factor

I'm pretty sure Jess would annihilate me if I posted pictures of her on QGL "are there any girls going" forums. Especially to an epic douchebag like you.

[instert whip noise]

one day you tards will look back and realise your last 5 job positions were achieved based on who you know and who you were working for and no one will give a f*** about your 84.567% score on introductory tertiary level maths

Which is great but if you actually read what we were talking about you'd know that we were talking about recent graduates who don't have a "last 5 job positions". After the first job you want to hope that your entire university career becomes a line item on your resume.

While it's possible to get a job straight out of uni based on who you know(in fact i know someone who basically did so) it's vastly more likely that you'll apply for a Graduate position and they'll ask for your academic transcript(which was the whole point of what i'm talking about).

anyway.. another thing is if u have a 7 gpa use your brains to make your own money/business and stop being a peon

I'm thinking you assume way too much about what a 7 means. From my perspective, someone that gets straight 7s in IT is not necessarily a person i'd want starting their own business. For reasons why i'd suggest reading http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/DevelopmentAbstraction.html .

That being said, If the right set of circumstances presented itself that 7GPA IT student will be the difference between getting venture capital/angel investment and not getting it.

Also this isn't specifically to you Superform but you're the most recent example... There are 2 grade levels that are higher than 4 and less than 7. Straight 6s require vastly less effort than straight 7s and look incredibly impressive. Half 6s and half 5s require even less effort and still look very good.

Someone's going to point out "But a 6 is only 10 marks less than a 7, if you could get a 6 why couldn't you just get a 7". The problem is that to get a 7 things have to be _PERFECT_. It's very easy as a marker to go "It's not exactly right... 83%. Thats ALMOST a 7, who could complain about that?".

[instert whip noise]

Whips are too much like fun. She'd probably use a Mace for the nice crunching sound.

Which is great but if you actually read what we were talking about you'd know that we were talking about recent graduates who don't have a "last 5 job positions". After the first job you want to hope that your entire university career becomes a line item on your resume.

I imagine that getting an awesome graduate position that gives awesome exposure in high level and often rare skill sets is going to help set up your career a lot more than some welfare development position where the only exposure was the fat secretary at the office Christmas party.