...physics is bulls*** though.

I guess this would be considered the physical extreme of chemistry rather than straight physics but its pretty amazing.

Water forms floating 'bridge' when exposed to high voltage

And biology is freaky too:

Cordyceps fungus (mind control fungus) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCOQ0VU24xw

Animal that can move a limb so fast that it causes cavitation (ie pressure change that results in boiling water) - http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/77

Lots of crazy animals exist but the things I find most incredible about animals are the amazingly tiny and complex structures which drive functions. Even stuff as basic as making proteins is pretty interesting when delivered the right way. (they are little factories with passagesways for things to move around inside them and are so small that within a single cell of the billions/trillions that make up an animal another big number exist... well not quite) What I really mean is that while we think about things like the galaxy being vast and containing amazing things, our own bodies are virtually like the unexplored galaxy in terms of being unable to explain some of the processes that occur purely because they are too small for us to access them.

This says it better anyway :P - http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/147

I thought that I might post more stuff but I got work to do so you should all post links to whacky s*** for me because lately QGL has been a pretty brain dead place.

Actually that reminds me of an awesome little trick you can do with a paper mobius strip and a pair of scissors. You make the mobius strip:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:M%C3%B6bius_strip.jpg

then cut down the middle of the paper, all the way around, like you would if you wanted to make 2 mobius strips of half width of the initial.

But something weird happens when you do it, especially when you do it again after that.

I spose its science :P

last edited by qmass at 21:29:27 29/Sep/07

i saw a mantis shrimp last time i went diving.. they are pretty cool.. that vid of the cavitation is pretty sweet

The cylindrical water bridge, with a diameter of 1-3 mm, could remain intact when the beakers were pulled apart at a distance of up to 25 mm

The picture and description makes it seem so much more interesting.

fascinating videos, thanks

That fungus is awesome, someone needs to make one that can attack Humans.

Mantris shrimps are pretty wild.

You can tell when you have one in the tank .. the random clicking noise and disappearing fish is a dead give away.

They are pretty smart and usually very cool looking.

Pest or Pet ... Just depends what else is in the tank.

Pest or Pet ... Just depends what else is in the tank.

I demand science related links in exchange for aquarium philosophy in a science thread!~

While that Shrimp is awesome... Spending 3 Years to find out it's the fastest attacking animal on the planet doesn't really help us much in the way of an enhanced life.

Not a big believer in knowledge having its own instrisic value, Scooter?

Also qmass the Pistol Shrimp is still cooler than the Mantis Shrimp and you know it.

If that knowledge could be used to power car's with clean energy, then yeah, it would be valuable.

But I dont really count something like The Guinness Book of World Records to hold any value, no.

Awesome videos, very entertaining and make you want to learn more!

She said 3 years worth of funding for science, she didn't specifically say just to study the shrimps.

If that knowledge could be used to power car's with clean energy, then yeah, it would be valuable.

But I dont really count something like The Guinness Book of World Records to hold any value, no.

haha you are pretty short sighted man... think about how nature influences our construction and engineering. (clue: f***ing insane impact way beyond my scope of understanding) This kind of study can probably lead to all kinds of things, improved artificial limbs springs to mind - s***, build a damn mech already :P

The point is that although this study might not have a tangible use any time soon, studies like this on animals and their mechanics is the kind of thing that drives studies in other areas.

Most medicines we use are initially discovered as natural products of plants or animals and then by synthesis in labs to make them more usefull they end up as really common drugs.

s***, even the fuels biotech is looking at for the future, in some cases, are being synthesised by organisms or by pathways taken from organisms.

There is no reason why similar things cannot come from this.

Cell structures - this is what im talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB6G9GD2KFk

And here is a gif of one of the motor proteins (without the vesicle this time) 'walking' along a microfilament, except this time it was recorded with a camera:

http://www.imagepup.com/up/np4Q_1190979654_myocin.gif

last edited by qmass at 04:57:39 30/Sep/07

Science For The Win!

This is basically a rotary egine, it makes a highly important biomolecule called ATP. ATP is used sort as a general power source.
This motor is powered by single hydrogen atoms passing through a membrane (the lower part of the motor). The hydrogen atoms are ultimately drawn out from Glucose, a sugar that is created from the break down of foods and fat stores in our body. Also it can be created from protein, usually muscle.

That picture posted by QMAS was created using an Electron Microscope. There is a fancy process needed to view items under these powerful microscopes, including a step where you have to coat your specimen in a fine layer of Gold particles. O and the device that does this glows PURPLE! wooo.

Piccy is big, look at it Here

This is similar to one of QUT's. I've been lucky enough to play with one of these. This type cost between 500K to $1 Mil and only has a 6 month warranty.

Then there are the BIG ONES!:

http://www.uhvem.osaka-u.ac.jp/images/UHVEM CS.jpg

This one pumps out a focused electron beam at 3 Mega Watts.

last edited by Tollaz0r! at 07:19:36 30/Sep/07

Awesome thread.

I like science, especially when it comes to drugs, scientists have found a worm that synthesizes morphine.

Ascaris suum, an Intestinal Parasite, Produces Morphine

The parasitic worm Ascaris suum contains the opiate alkaloid morphine as determined by HPLC coupled to electrochemical detection and by gas chromatography/mass spectrometry. The level of this material is 1168 +/- 278 ng/g worm wet weight. Furthermore, Ascaris maintained for 5 days contained a significant amount of morphine, as did their medium, demonstrating their ability to synthesize the opiate alkaloid. To determine whether the morphine was active, we exposed human monocytes to the material, and they immediately released nitric oxide in a naloxone-reversible manner. The anatomic distribution of morphine immunoreactivity reveals that the material is in the subcuticle layers and in the animals' nerve chords. Furthermore, as determined by RT-PCR, Ascaris does not express the transcript of the neuronal mu receptor. Failure to demonstrate the expression of this opioid receptor, as well as the morphine-like tissue localization in Ascaris, suggests that the endogenous morphine is intended for secretion into the microenvironment.

They excrete a lot of morphine into their surroundings. Imagine the possibilities, perhaps you could cultivate a morphine soaked brick of the worms and then perform an extraction.

Is there a medicine for drug addiction yet? Now that would change the world...

One thing I love about Science is Quantam Physics - the branch of physics that tries to explain why Newtonian Physics (high school physics) doesn't seem to work on the subatomic level, and provide it's own theories that might explain it.

Einstein was opposed to Quantam theory and even published a paper saying that if Quantam theory was true, then it would be possible for one particle in one place to magically affect a particle in an arbitrary other place; he called this 'spooky action at a distance' and it was basically his way of saying Quantan Physics if a pile of bulls***.

Within a few years Quantam Physicists were doing experiments demonstrating Spooky Action does infact happen, and Quantam Physics predicted it!

Now they just need to find a way to exploit this magic. Perhaps that's how the Wii works...

Is there a medicine for drug addiction yet? Now that would change the world...

Well 'addiction' isn't really a physical problem that anything can be done about. Addiction isn't a tangible 'thing' like cancer or herpes. Being a drug addict is like being a slut or a thief, it's the description of what someone does. Could be for any reason really - and the main reason someone is addicted to drugs is because they like the drugs - not because of some imaginary inner demon that forces them to do what they do.

Technically if you bound their hands and feet and they couldn't take drugs for some time they would no longer be considered an addict, no matter how much they felt like they wanted it.

^^ever heard of opiate receptors?

What some groups are trying to do is create some type of vaccine that will stop the drugs binding to the receptors.

It's iffy, because obviously you can't f*** up somebodies opioid receptors, they're needed for pain medication. They're trying to do it for cocaine last time I read.

last edited by CHUB at 09:59:47 30/Sep/07

Almost anything you do that you like; whether it be ingesting a certain chemical, pirating a movie, or sleeping with a lot of women - will cause some kind of receptors to receive a boost of chemicals whether that's from within the brain or external. That doesn't define the addiction, or force your arms and legs to take you to do the same thing again. You still make the choice to do so, regardless of the motivation.

Obviously if the drugs didn't do anything for you then surely you wouldn't be motivated as much and it would be easy to just walk away from it.

But if you really enjoyed them Opiod's so much it may be difficult to get you to agree to this. Or since you're on drugs you may not be capable of making that decision... ooh ethical questions...





last edited by Idol at 10:08:24 30/Sep/07

Not true Idol.

Your beloved alcohol can produce lethal physical withdrawals that makes heroin (which is non-lethal essentially) look like fun.

So in this situation, it's use the drug (alcohol) or death, there's NO room for willpower or motivation.

Lets not turn this into a drug thread, Qball won't be very happy :(

last edited by CHUB at 10:09:07 30/Sep/07

I can't speak to physical withdrawals, other than to say physical dependance and addiction mean two different things.

I can concede there seems to be a 'common' usage of the word 'addiction' to mean physical dependance. But, because of that, a lot of wrong ideas are spread around, and addiction is seen as a disease rather than a behaviour, which is incorrect.

last edited by Idol at 10:16:01 30/Sep/07

I'm just replying to this statement,

Technically if you bound their hands and feet and they couldn't take drugs for some time they would no longer be considered an addict, no matter how much they felt like they wanted it.

Technically if you did that to a large alcohol or benzodiazepine addict, they would die.

I'll dig up some of the articles about vaccines for cocaine they're trying to develop I read about in the EU.

They would die and therefore no longer demonstrate the addictive behaviour. It was an absurd idea to illustrate the fact that addiction is the behaviour, and the best 'medicine for addiction' would probably work just like binding someone's hands and feet together - like the drugs they give in mental homes to calm people down and demotivate them.

going cold turkey isn't a great option anyway, with alcohol it can be fatal. doubt its all that effective unless the person has great willpower and with addicts they don't (unless they find jesus, allah, zenu or some other nonsense).

i refer back to my work for the dope plan i posted in some thread ages ago.

get them doing some menial s*** for their methadone hits. cleaning toilets is better than sucking cock at any rate.

Thread needs more links.

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/176

Okkkkk the Update edit button doesn't do anything...

Superconductors ftw

^^^

That looks awesome.

I'm not even going to try to understand what's going on.

3dee you some how managed to put the link inside your signature image :/

"No fair, you changed the outcome by measuring it!"

Addiction is as much a disease as it is a behavioral problem.

Drug Addiction as a Pathology of Staged Neuroplasticity.

Here is a cool link, its basically an overview of alot of mechanics which are involved in various processes in your cells. I havnt watched all of it but the first part was talking about DNA packaging which is in itself, pretty f***ing amazing. Your cells take this chain of information which if you stretched it right out, would be aprox 2m long and packages it into a retardedly small size which we can only just see with light microscopes. It probably goes on into a bunch of the other processes like transcription/translation etc

It starts off slow but Im going to admit that slide 7 and 8 are one of the best presentations of lay-science I have ever seen. (impressed)

http://www.dnai.org/lesson/go/9804/8122

last edited by qmass at 16:51:34 30/Sep/07

DOUBLE POST...

Some more interesting 'animals do the weirdest s***' links.

Im sure alot of people would have seen this one before, battle at kruger: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM - this is absolutely the craziest s*** you could ever see animals do in africa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjE0Kdfos4Y - lyre bird being a champ. They basically impress their womens by being the best impersonaters of all kinds of sounds. This one learnt how to sound like a crew of loggers :O

last edited by qmass at 18:54:43 30/Sep/07

^^^

That looks awesome.

I'm not even going to try to understand what's going on.

Superconductors are ferromagnetic materials cooled to below 100 or so kelvin (100 degrees C above absolute zero). At this temperature, the metal has no resistence. In other words, the free electron's (a surprisingly small portion of the total electron count in all the metal's molecules) can move as fast and as free around the conductor as they like. This allows the magnetic field created by the superconductor to instantaneously change to equalise the magnetic and electric fields between the two objects.

What's happening when the two magnets are magically holding each other by a distance is that after holding them together for a little, the magnetic forces 'bundle' up. No idea why this happens. Both the repelling and attracting forces are in motion, only this time, at the same time. So essentially its being pushed away from the magnet by the repelling force, but at the same the attracting force is pulling it in. Gravity does not have much effect as the two equalising magnetic forces are MUCH stronger (the electromagnetic force about 1000 billion billion billion times stronger than gravity) and thats why its held under the magnet.

last edited by 3dee at 18:11:10 30/Sep/07

qmass mate, youve got the link for the kruger battle instead of the lyre bird

haha oops. I shall fix it up now.

Geez qball, if you go into the animal kingdom you find a lifetime (let alone a packed QGL thread) of amazing instances without even getting down to the molecular level.

I bought a BBC series a few months ago called "Life in the undergrowth" which gets right into the world of insects, such AWESOME production, the microscopic/high speed camera work lets you see the craziest s***.

Anyway, here's a good scene of slug sex... ridiculously complicated.

DNA in itself is truly awesome. The structure of it is mind boggling. Also a large portion of it is viral-like DNA. Little chunks of DNA that copy and move themselves within chromosomes that don't code anything for us, just enough to copy and move themselves. Some cant even do that and instead hitch hike on other bits of DNA doing it.

It is amasing how simple and complex life is built up from a sort of programming code.

DNA just boggles the mind.

It's amazing how MASSIVE it is, but somehow wraps and coils down into that nice little neat metaphase chromosome.

Also a large portion of it is viral-like DNA. Little chunks of DNA that copy and move themselves within chromosomes that don't code anything for us, just enough to copy and move themselves. Some cant even do that and instead hitch hike on other bits of DNA doing it.

Are you talking about transposable elements? Its not like they expected anyone to really 'understand' in cell&molec 1 but I sure as s*** dont get them :P

One of the most interesting things, I found, was mitochondrial DNA. Looking forward to learning more about it beyond "round like prokaryotes and maternally inherited".

DNA in itself is truly awesome. The structure of it is mind boggling. Also a large portion of it is viral-like DNA. Little chunks of DNA that copy and move themselves within chromosomes that don't code anything for us, just enough to copy and move themselves. Some cant even do that and instead hitch hike on other bits of DNA doing it.

It is amasing how simple and complex life is built up from a sort of programming code.

Just hope a scientist doesn't decide to replace parts of our DNA with that of a frog or we'll get people spontaneously changing sex.

One of the most interesting things, I found, was mitochondrial DNA. Looking forward to learning more about it beyond "round like prokaryotes and maternally inherited".

mitochondria are pretty much the coolest things ever. especially given their likely origins.

then george lucas came along and stole the idea to try and explain "the force" while he was ruining star wars.

that lyre bird is kick ass

lol, that bird is the s***!

That human noises were awesome, best camera impersonation.

Chainsaw ftw.

Are you talking about transposable elements?

Yup, transposons and retrotransposons.

mitochondria are pretty much the coolest things ever. especially given their likely origins.

The Mitochondrial genome is like a junk pile of genes (both working and not), its great. Plants have another set of genes found in plastids called plastomes, they are responsible for doing all that crazy photosynthesis.

Also, it is somewhat easy to see evolution in action when you learn how to 'read' DNA. Those crazy evangelists would have a hard time coming up with an alternate theory as to why the genomes look like they do.

Laser powered rockets !

Also, it is somewhat easy to see evolution in action when you learn how to 'read' DNA. Those crazy evangelists would have a hard time coming up with an alternate theory as to why the genomes look like they do.

sounds like you need to sit down and learn to read the bible.

Unlike the vast majority of Christians I've actually had a good crack at sitting down and working through the Bible. It's messed up at times :)

thats cause most don't give a f***

I went to an intelligent design meeting once with a Christian mate of mine, spur of the moment thing. What really confused me was that during the talk he said that "micro-evolution" was a core part of Intelligent Design, like a fish growing extra fins but still being a fish, but Macro evolution such as a primate evolving into a man was complete bunk, i was like wtf?

you cant believe in one and not believe in the other. the guy also used the walker protein thing from the first page as proof we were "designed." gah. these ID people drive me mad.

and now for my cool science stuff, a Russian experiment where they bred foxes based solely on their tameness, and the physiological changes that resulted from breeding based solely on a behavioral trait.

here: http://reactor-core.org/taming-foxes.html

Finally science has done something useful .... A working X WING!

so how do they know it flies when they havent flown it yet?

Heh Merky, I love that foxes lose their foxy-looks if you try to tame them. For those who don't know, all domestic dogs are just selectively bred Grey Wolves. The idea is you kill the angriest of the wolves, and those that are friendly to you, perhaps even protect you in return for food, are allowed to breed. Eventually you end up with poodles and s***zus.

Now someone thought it would be cool to have a pet fox.. so they started breeding foxes to be tame, and low and behold they stopped looking like foxes and looking more like certain types of dog.

Floppy ears, curly tail, body fuzz, a round belly, etc.. all those cutesy features seem to come right along with being tame and friendly.

DNA is a self replicating entity - The living body and experience is just a byproduct of this.

science sucks

You have the power to destroy those DNA with your will, are you the byproduct or the MASTER!?

destroy dna with your will? what's that meant to mean?

like kill someone?

yourself...

suicide is just syntax errors in the dna

Technically if you bound their hands and feet and they couldn't take drugs for some time they would no longer be considered an addict, no matter how much they felt like they wanted it.

You need to read 'A Clockwork Orange'.

These look pretty nifty.

DNA is a self replicating entity - The living body and experience is just a byproduct of this.

what the f***? DNA cant replicate itself, that is why viruses need hosts to exist. Go back to sunday school you pseudo-scientific gimp.

DNA replication.

rage more qmass.

qmass is right though.

DNA replication.

rage more qmass.

Is that link supposed to have some kind of relivance?

edit: When the threadposter starts to s***up the thread its probably a good sign its over - post more videos of science someone :(

last edited by qmass at 02:10:10 04/Oct/07

I think he means DNA has all the required information needed to build machinery to replicate itself.. If not he is a silly man.

However his comment 'The living body and experience is just a byproduct of this.',
is similar to saying 'Team Fortress 2 is just a byproduct of the programming code'

DAN is as much a product from the greater entity that it builds, as is the greater entity a product of the DNA. More biology classes for you troll, I mean Arclore.

Also I've applied for a super secret summer school research experience scholarship, hidden within the depths of QUT's web space. For some reason, not many people apply for them. :/ Wooo!

Early forms of life may not even had DNA at all. It isn't a fact that you need DNA to create life, just that DNA happens to exist in life right now. DNA could have evolved right along with us from a much much simpler gizmo.

Ya, RNA most likely came before DNA, and before RNA was other stuff.

Phooks, that faucet is so awesome I'm going to order one :)

what the f***? DNA cant replicate itself, that is why viruses need hosts to exist. Go back to sunday school you pseudo-scientific gimp.

Most virii are considered non-living and acellular so a symbiotic relationship is formed. The virus is replicating itself through the waste product of the DNA replication process? Your comment and insults holds no value.

However his comment 'The living body and experience is just a byproduct of this is similar to saying 'Team Fortress 2 is just a byproduct of the programming code'

What a silly comparison - Team Fortress 2 is a static universe.

Ya, RNA most likely came before DNA, and before RNA was other stuff

The RNA has only been around since 1875

last edited by arclore at 14:46:23 04/Oct/07

haha nice troll

I think he means DNA has all the required information needed to build machinery to replicate itself.. If not he is a silly man.

but i'll bite. most viruses don't even have dna polymerase. and the ones that do its not for self-replicating. to say dna is self replicating is wrong. that'd be like saying the operating manual for a photocopier is self-replicating.

last edited by nF at 14:55:29 04/Oct/07

my fist is going to be self replicating on your face

BAM

but i'll bite. most viruses don't even have dna polymerase. and the ones that do its not for self-replicating.

I havnt done anything on viruses yet but I seem to remember seeing something about viral transmission, is the DNA pol for cleaving its way into a chain? (or be I way off?)

Most virii

I like this, you are trying to passively agressively drop the fact that you believe that I cannot pluralise. The funny thing is that you are incorrect because virii is not a real world. It is the result of people like you trying to sound smart and invoke some kind of latin derivitive.

are considered non-living and acellular

No s***? The reason that Viruses are such a good example is BECAUSE they are non-living, just as DNA is non-living. Without the biological machinery involved in replication, DNA is completely useless.

so a symbiotic relationship is formed.

Parasitic. Although I spose we use macrophages symbiotically... sort of?

What a silly comparison - Team Fortress 2 is a static universe.

Just like DNA, it is what we make of it.

edit: Apparently the word virii does exist, however, it is latin for a different word all together.

last edited by qmass at 15:21:31 04/Oct/07

DNA is not in the bible .. therefor it does not exist.

God made us out of some clay and stuff.

DNA is not in the bible .. therefor it does not exist.

the bible is made up of DNA. well before the trees were killed an all.

last edited by ravn0s at 15:50:39 04/Oct/07

the bible is made up of DNA.

No it isn't?

Hah, nice ninja edit.

well i'll be...

i always thought it was made up of lies and treachery

BAM

Since we have established that science is awesome...

http://www.primidi.com/2007/09/14.html

Atom microscope :O (I didnt know they could do this) Its not an optical image, obviously, but it can display the location of electric fields to an absurd level.

Plus you can manipulate the location of atoms to make shapes:

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/3616/quantumcorral1my3.jpg

edit: s***, didnt realise waffle was SA only.

last edited by qmass at 16:43:09 04/Oct/07

so are they going to use that microscope to make things by combining atoms?

things....have....ATOMS!!???

I like this, you are trying to passively agressively drop the fact that you believe that I cannot pluralise. The funny thing is that you are incorrect because virii is not a real world. It is the result of people like you trying to sound smart and invoke some kind of latin derivitive.

Huh? I wasn't trying to do or say anything like that? Way to take everything off topic with your paranoid delusions. Has someone insulted your spelling before? And I never stated 'virii' was a real 'world' or was that meant to be 'word'?

No s***? The reason that Viruses are such a good example is BECAUSE they are non-living, just as DNA is non-living. Without the biological machinery involved in replication, DNA is completely useless.

That doesn't mean that biological machinery isn't a byproduct of DNA replication. Entropy destroys DNA on a nano-level but a lot slower with a bigger encasing of biomass, thats why smaller things procreate faster. The longer the time period (in relation to biomass) DNA has to replicate the more successful it will be in spreading through the universe, in theory.

Parasitic. Although I spose we use macrophages symbiotically... sort of?

Midi-chlorians are the best!

http://tonova.typepad.com/thesuddencurve/atom_ant.jpg

doob wins this topic.

The Sky isn't just a big painted roof?!?!

Here what I don't get.

If you have a 'virus' (singular) you actually probably have multiple of those suckers inside you. So how come you don't say I have 'viruses'? Because it sounds like you have more than one TYPE of virus? Then if 'virus' refers simply to one TYPE of virus, then what do you call one unit of virus?

If you have a 'virus' (singular) you actually probably have multiple of those suckers inside you. So how come you don't say I have 'viruses'? Because it sounds like you have more than one TYPE of virus? Then if 'virus' refers simply to one TYPE of virus, then what do you call one unit of virus?

I guess its like groups of animals, you dont count them, you call them by their name. (murder of crows etc) So you would just be infected? Its not feasable to quantify the number because its impossible. Even if you could count the number actually flying about inside you, you still dont know the degree to which your cells are carrying the viral DNA.

You really shouldnt try and relate society's use of a word to a scientific term just as the 'flu' isnt what you have when you get a random cold type feelin' s*** day or two. (or mass and weight or temperature and heat and the list goes on) You would need somone who actually knows something about medicine but I presume the severity of a virus is based on its reproduction rate vs. your ability to respond. Rather than the number inside you.

what do you call one unit of virus?

virion

This suck is seriously sucking now.

I came across this little interesting reaction someone proposed.

APAP + HCl + NaNO2 --> N-nitroso-APAP

N-nitroso-APAP --reduce--> --hydrolyze--> 4-hydroxyphenylhydrazine

4-hydroxyphenylhydrazine + acetaldehyde --acid catalyst--> 5-HO-Indole

APAP being acetaminophen (or paracetamol / Panadol).

Very, very cool.

Who ever knew you could get tryptamine prescursor from Panadol :)

It sucks as a painkiller, may as well synth it into a psychedelic.

The RNA has only been around since 1875

... I can only think you mean it was discovered around 1875?

DNA replicates using various DNA polymerases. Now don't be confused by the name, DNA polymerase III, which doest he majority of the copying needs an RNA primer to begin copying.
This means a piece of RNA has to be laid down next to the strand of DNA to be copied before the DNA replication can begin. This RNA segment is later cut out and replaced with DNA.
Doubled stranded DNA is copied to single stranded RNA where it is then processed and eventually translated into proteins. Seems a bit odd that RNA needs to be an intermediate if it evolved after DNA..

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that RNA did indeed evolve before DNA.

DNA alone cannot replicate itself. If you put a whole whack of DNA into a bucket of water, nothing much will happen except for the eventual degradation of the DNA. It holds all he information needed to replicate itself however. You need mainly proteins and RNA's to read this information actually replicate the DNA.

The virus is replicating itself through the waste product of the DNA replication process

Well, it isn't really a waste product. Virus generally insert their DNA (or DNA copied from their RNA) into the genome of the host. They insert it near a promoter which is used to begin making proteins. This 'tricks' the organisms machinery to begin transcribing and translating the viral DNA into proteins that make up the Virus, along with the rest of the stuff the DNA codes for. The virus components then assemble themselves within the organisms cell and eventually burst out (or are released via other mechanisms) and go about infecting other cells.


There are also retorovirus-like components within the DNA genomes of most species. These a chunks of DNA that have very similar structure to the general processed mRNA sequences of virus. They most likely were inserted into the genome via retro-transposons. A large percentage of the human genome is made up of this seemingly useless repetitive DNA, somewhere near 20% of it.

Teehee Chub there are easier ways to get to your product of choice. Enzymes + substrate = product of choice ;D

We just need a way to ramp up our internal DMT production then life will be good :)

DMT is definetely a mystery substance.

We just need a way to ramp up our internal DMT production then life will be good :)

I postulate that having a constant near death experiance is probably not the best life one can lead :O

(You could learn surgical methods, crack open somones skull, get a vacume ready, wake them up so they can freak out and die, then suck up the sweet sweet drugs)

BTW: f*** me. Forgetting all high school maths (let alone basic uni maths for science - lol stats helps lots) is not the best way to approach kinetics. Spent about 6hrs straight to learn everything and realise how god damn basic the whole topic is if you understand the maths. #+%)(#+$$% Looks like Ill be doing summer school maths in my holiday :(

Nobody fully understands it yet qmass, the DMT near death experience thing is still just a theory.

Wouldn't it be amazing if our entire conciousness was a "trip" :)

There's no doubt that DMT is a ridiculously powerful psychedelic drug... now the question is WHY is it produced naturally in our body in small quantities.

I believe it was Terrance Mckenna (may be wrong) that hypothesized that magic mushrooms provided a MAJOR step in evolution, perhaps that some of our senses were bought about via synesthesia which is experienced under the psychedelic state.

Not too far fetched if you think about and especially if you have experienced synesthesia first hand.

what if you've experienced it in third person? does that count?

what if you've experienced it in third person? does that count?

What?

LOL

"YOU SHOULD ALL SMOKE DMT AND JOIN MY CULT MOTHER f***ERS!"

Best catch phrase to join a cult ever.

There's no doubt that DMT is a ridiculously powerful psychedelic drug... now the question is WHY is it produced naturally in our body in small quantities.

It's what enables us to construct a picture of reality based on our senses. And to dream.

I believe it was Terrance Mckenna (may be wrong) that hypothesized that magic mushrooms provided a MAJOR step in evolution, perhaps that some of our senses were bought about via synesthesia which is experienced under the psychedelic state.

Terrance believes that when monkeys came out of the trees to forage in the ground for magic mushrooms, the psychedelic experiences motivated them to communicate with each other on higher levels and thus developed complex languages and sexual orgies.

Sigh, all these wonderful mind expanding substances naturally found in nature.

Yet we decide to ferment/distill alcohol to destroy our bodies and "dumb" ourselves down.

Society = fail!

Alcohol exists in nature.

In what sense does it exist in drinkable quantities in nature?

I always thought we needed to produce it via anaerobic respiration with yeast?

I once saw a documentary of animals eating fermenting fruit that had fallen from a tree. They all got pissed and started stumbling around and falling over and stuff.

orly? That's awesome s***!

Rotting fruit can produce alcohol. It's kinda like penicillin in that it exists in nature but not in a strong enough dose or in a desirable form.

Well there was certainly a strong enough dose because elephants and s*** were getting pissed in the video I saw.

Fruit probably tasted bad though :P

Jesus, how much did they eat? Heh, the rotting fruit may be strong enough... but who's gonna eat it? Of course! Bogans. "Hey Existence, wanna buy some cool alcoholic fruit?"

Well I guess the elephant ate the amount that an elephant normally eats which is a s***load :P



There it is.

last edited by fpot at 08:42:57 05/Oct/07

Regardless, the point still stands... wtf are we producing ethanol to consume which is physically destroying our bodies and causing deterimental effects to society... when there's a plethora of mind expanding substances out there.

Let alone the fact that you get arrested for taking a natural product and altering your conciousness... but you can drink all the fermented sugar you want, spew up everywhere and generally act like c*** while being 100% legal.

This world fails.

Plenty of good research going on through http://www.maps.org/ (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies). Very interesting if you want to see the latest applications being trialled for these illegal substances. Ibogaine is one I find the most interesting, especially it's ability to produce such a long and profound "trip" that people can singlehandedly overcome powerful opioid (heroin etc.) addiction in days. Nearly everybody knows about MDMA (ecstasy) and treating Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. LSD/Psilocybin are definetely the most promising :)

The Psychedelic drugs are banned because of their ability to be easily misused. They can screw with your head in major ways and can lead to very unproductive people.
With alcohol, if you drink too much you get sick and pretty seedy the next day. Most people don't like to repeat that and limit their intake. With Psychedelics you could be pumping those every day and not get 'sick'. You'd be happy to sit around and do nothing all day, everyday.

There is a reason why alcohol has been the major intoxicating substance across many, many cultures.

Also, the shamanistic and other cultures that used psychedelics generally did so sparingly. Also, there was generally only a select few who were allowed to use them.

Mass use of psychedelics, specially at the level of alcohol use would certainly have "detrimental effects to society".

They can screw with your head in major ways and can lead to very unproductive people.

I would say the risk with alcohol is greater, but this is subjective so no point arguing it.

With alcohol, if you drink too much you get sick and pretty seedy the next day. Most people don't like to repeat that and limit their intake.

Same goes with any drug, most people I know that use psychedelics can only "stand" them once every few months, otherwise it's too much.

With Psychedelics you could be pumping those every day and not get 'sick'. You'd be happy to sit around and do nothing all day, everyday.

AFAIK all psychedelics produce significant tolerance... s*** I can't even eat mushrooms 2 days in a row without the 2nd day being 1/4 of the experience.

Also, the shamanistic and other cultures that used psychedelics generally did so sparingly. Also, there was generally only a select few who were allowed to use them.

Look up the doses the shamans used though, they were truly psychonaut amounts with pretty much the specific purpose of seeing/connecting with God.

Mass use of psychedelics, specially at the level of alcohol use would certainly have "detrimental effects to society".

I think the world would be a much better place.

Sure some things would go wrong, but I don't think it would be worse then the amount of alcohol addiction, violence/abuse and physical damage alcohol is causing.

DNA?

The shamans certainly may have used heavy, heavy doses. However it was only a select few that would do that. I bet they were also nutters too :D

i love how science gets nerds so fired up. makes me lofl. have i got science/drugs debates on the facebook bandwagon list?

You seem to think if they were legalized everybody would run out and start tripping tomorrow.

Do you think your average rum drinking bogan wants to experience the psychedelic mindset? Anybody that truly has some type of interested in these substances will seek them out already.

I don't think that's the case. You would have a portion of people that wouldn't even consider it, others that would use and later on decide it's not for them, people that use and find it worthwhile and use responsibly and people that use/abuse and develop mental problems.

I'm one of the most gung-ho drug users you could meet, yet I can't bring myself to consume psychedelics more then once (or possibly twice) a year. I've had friends that had 1 single mushroom trip, gained unbelievable amounts of insight and never felt the need to touch the substance again.

I know OF these people that abuse psychedelics and burn themselves out, but I've never met them.

wtf are we producing ethanol to consume which is physically destroying our bodies and causing deterimental effects to society... when there's a plethora of mind expanding substances out there.

I seemed to have misunderstood what you said here. I thought you meant that everyone using ethanol should use psychedelics instead. I now see that you mean everyone who wants to use psychedelics should. O, and that it should be legalized. I have no problem with. I believe that these types of drugs could have some powerful therapeutic effects. If they were legalized it would certainly speed up research in that area.

Yeah and it's not like people become psychedelic junkies. Most people have an aversion to psychedelic experiences, finding them uncomfortable.

Exactly.

Yet I can be put in jail for possessing these substances, yet alcohol (which causes ridiculous amounts of problems) is perfectly legal.

I can't take anything seriously, this world is f***ed :)

banning alcohol won't help anyone (look at mulims for example)

what good would legalising psychotropics do?

Wait.... WTF is RNA?

your mum

what good would legalising psychotropics do?

That's not really a question that needs answering. Things don't need to justify their freedom. I'm sure someone will come up with a good argument. But the better question is; what good has criminalizing hallucinogens and deliriants done? It has put Harvard Psychology lecturers in prison, it has restricted science and education, it has probably allowed a very inconsiderate lifestyle to evolve in the western world...

Idol rocks!

what good would legalising psychotropics do?

For one it will stop criminalizing peaceful users of psychedelic drugs.

All around the world, there's people rotting in jails because of stupid laws.

s*** in the US, I bet you could rape/kill a child and still get less time then synthesizing LSD.

Also WTF is with the thread title? Did somebody change it?

last edited by CHUB at 12:15:24 05/Oct/07

so i heard you can manufacture mescaline from ecalyptus saw dust... confirm/deny?

i'm looking at you chub

No idea without looking into it, who would want to synth mescaline anyway.

I just grow the cactus, f*** it up with water + sodium hydroxide (basic solution), throw in some xylene... mix it up, let it seperate out, collect the xylene layer. Mix the xylene with hydrochloric acid and you precipitate the salt form of mescaline... evaporate and viola.

Wash with acetone a bit later on and you're set to rumble.

The DMT extraction is even EASIER then this. All plants/cactus/bark/whatever are legal.



last edited by CHUB at 12:29:09 05/Oct/07

You're like the Russell Coight of drug pharms.

f*** yes. Plastisteel here we come.

By mimicking a brick-and-mortar molecular structure found in seashells, University of Michigan researchers created a composite plastic that's as strong as steel but lighter and transparent.

http://www.ns.umich.edu/htdocs/releases/story.php?id=6084

What makes this really awesome is that its one more step towards the future of science fiction like aliens.

edit: While im posting. UC Berkley has uploaded a bunch of recorded lectures to youtube just recently. This means you can view lectures for a whole semester of a subject. Pretty usefull if you are studying the same subject and want an alternative lecture stream. Of course, many universities including berkley have been doing this for quite a while now, however, nobodies streaming technology is as easy to use as youtube because universities are completely retarded when it comes to IT. :P

Found here: http://www.youtube.com/user/ucberkeley

They have a 'playlist' for the subjects they have uploaded.

Example of subjects:

Physics 10: Physics for Future Presidents. Spring 2006.

Professor Richard A. Muller. The most interesting and important topics in physics, stressing conceptual understanding rather than math, with applications to current events. Topics covered may vary and may include energy and conservation, radioactivity, nuclear physics, the Theory of Relativity, lasers, explosions, earthquakes, superconductors, and quantum physics.

Integrative Biology 131: General Human Anatomy.

Fall 2005. Professor Marian Diamond. The functional anatomy of the human body as revealed by gross and microscopic examination.

The Department of Integrative Biology offers a program of instruction that focuses on the integration of structure and function in the evolution of diverse biological systems. It investigates integration at all levels of organization from molecules to the biosphere, and in all taxa of organisms from viruses to higher plants and animals.

The department uses many traditional fields and levels of complexity in forging new research directions, asking new questions, and answering traditional questions in new ways.

There is some other stuff, intro org chem, some computer science thing with a google dude talking... have a look.

last edited by qmass at 15:17:42 05/Oct/07

last edited by qmass at 15:19:31 05/Oct/07

Yeah I've watched two of those lectures this week on aromatic compounds.

Pretty good.

awesome, now i dont have to listen to my monotone org chem lec, pity the stream just finished yesterday

i agree with joe rogan, dmt is cool, mind f***ing.. s***.

top stuff..