WTF!?

POLICE are scouring central Melbourne for a gunman who shot and killed one man and seriously wounded another man and a woman on a busy city street, plunging the city into virtual lockdown.

bang bang

Yeah, it's been pretty crazy around here this morning, I work a few blocks over from where this happened.

They're Melbournites. What more do you expect?

I for one am glad news.com.au now has comments on their stories.

1) Random USA idiot posts on there about guns
2) 400 people deride America, Americans, and American gun laws
3) everyone loses

Counterstrike made me do it.

Police have since confirmed the dead man was Tony Soprano.

Police have since confirmed the dead man was Tony Soprano.

But not THE Tony Soprano, right? Considering Tony Soprano was shot and killed in a Diner, and not on a busy street.

They're Melbournites. What more do you expect?

first thing i expect when i see a melb shooting is for the shooter to be a cop :P

I for one am glad news.com.au now has comments on their stories.

Ah, thank you 'chip of Wyoming USA'

If your country had gun laws like mine, someone may have been able to shoot this idiot and stop him before he got away

God Bless America

first thing i expect when i see a melb shooting is for the shooter to be a cop :PIf it wasn't true it'd be funny.

I still remember when they shot a dude dead for wielding a teaspoon ...

^ he was playing gunny spoony. he got the idea after watching the simpsons

http://kadrin.mechapencil.net/knifeyspoony.png

i TRIED to read some of those comments on news.com.au

Only got through about 10 and its an embarrassment to be Australian...

<3 abc.net.au/news

Well, they found a gun in the construction site near the Queens St Bridge (under the train line between Flinders and Spencer St stations), so I think that's a pretty good indication the guy is well and truly outside the lockdown area.

Meanwhile there's still helicopters buzzing around everywhere.

whoaaaa this was full on yoo..i wz liek walkin down williams st yo and liek i see thus carazy crakah draggd out his beyatch from da taxi fromz her hair yo and started gettin all pimpish n stuffz so liek i was abouts 2 get da homie to chillax 2 stuff but hes liek "omg wtf?! get outta here man" denz some offa homeboy jumped in and got da wrap for it...im aight though i knew dat guyz was kerazzyy so i stepd the hell bak!

Posted by: the hero of melbz-yo 11:32am today

I've got nothing. Who gives these people computers ?

He probably stole the computer he used to write that comment.

^^ who gives these people life?

if you need a license to drive a car, you should need a license to breed.

^ Ever think the c*** MAY have been taking the piss?

especially since he said chillax...

If your country had gun laws like mine, someone may have been able to shoot this idiot and stop him before he got away

I support the right for every citizen to own firearms, pistols included.

Unfortunately Australia does not allow concealable weapons permits which is a pity, I think direct sight weapon carrying would be beneficial to person safety.

last edited by CHUB at 12:23:09 18/Jun/07

Unfortunately Australia does not allow concealable weapons permits which is a pity, I think direct sight weapon carrying would be beneficial to person safety.

That's probably because you're stupid

Wow, it took like 20 posts before the gun debate started. I'm glad I could be involved

especially since he said chillax...

Oh, don't bet on it based on that. The guy who sits opposide my desk uses words like that all the time.
You can tell when a persons IQ is less than a certain value based on the way they talk. However, he's one of those people you have a rough idea of their intelligence before they've spoken.

Unfortunately Australia does not allow concealable weapons permits which is a pity, I think direct sight weapon carrying would be beneficial to person safety.

Of course. That's the solution to gun-related crimes. More guns!

You're right, everyone should have the right to own a gun.

Fortunately I also have a right to not be shot by a gun. So I propose a new law. The registered owner of a gun shall be responsible for any injuries caused by that gun. So irrespective of whether you shoot me with your gun or its used by someone who stole it you should face charges equivalent to say 60% of the sentence that would be given if you were directly responsible.

Lets see how many people need to own a gun then.

I take responsibility for my own safety, by removing weapons from citizens hands you give the power to the criminals and rely completely on the state police force which is a small minority and never able to provide self defense when it's needed.

Regardless, the laws allow me to own a pistol, centrefire rifle and pump action shotgun for "sports shooting" which is very sufficient.

Fortunately I also have a right to not be shot by a gun.

I could stab you with a chefs knife... same s***.



last edited by CHUB at 12:36:33 18/Jun/07

Denny, why 60% ?
By owning a gun, they caused the injuries or deaths... so 100% for that.
The failed to keep it secure, so maybe an extra 5 years for failing to secure a deadly weapon.

So criminally, 100%+ 5 years.
Voids any future gun licence automatically.
And then they can be sued by any victims direct or indirect for any and all damage, even "mental anguish".

I could stab you with a chefs knife... same s***.

A knife can be used to cut a steak, butter some bread, open packaging.

A gun can be used to shoot things. I don't think there is anything you can legally shoot in Brisbane... ie. guns serve no useful purpose for 99.9% of the population, the 0.01% that do have a reason, have them already.


last edited by Obes at 12:43:57 18/Jun/07

I could stab you with a chefs knife... same s***.

Just because some dangerous weapons are available, that doesn't mean that all should be.

I was trying to be not too inflamatory but 60% was entirely aribtrary. In reality I'd expect that weak willed pollies would probably go with 30% if any such law was created.

I take responsibility for my own safety

Good then you can also take responsibility for all the damage that your guns cause.

I could stab you with a chefs knife... same s***.

Or you could choke me with a piece of wire, run me over with a car, electrocute me with a car battery... The list goes on.

Do you want to know what the common element of all those common items is though? None of them are designed to kill.

Guns are designed only to kill people/things. They have NO utility beyond their ability to kill people. If you own a gun you have no practical use for that item other than to kill people or animals.

so yeah, please stop using bulls*** car/knife analogies.

last edited by Denny at 12:43:56 18/Jun/07

Cause you'd hear shooting then everyone pulls out their guns looking for the person holding a gun. Thats where the fun starts.

Guns are designed only to kill people/things. They have NO utility beyond their ability to kill people. If you own a gun you have no practical use for that item other than to kill people or animals.

1. I am a part of primary production, 2. I eat a large majority of the food I shoot in recreational shooting, 3. It's a sport.

So there's 3 genuine reasons that the government will and have willingly accepted, personal protection doesn't even come into it.

I take responsibility for my own safety, by removing weapons from citizens hands you give the power to the criminals and rely completely on the state police force which is a small minority and never able to provide self defense when it's needed.

You also give it to the hands of people who will carry it, get angry and flip out and sproadically kill someone because the access to a means is available.

Existence and his booty call mates would be long since dead if them and all their equally homosexually tensioned "wynnum enemies" were allowed to carry.

last edited by Loki at 12:47:45 18/Jun/07

hahahahah^

Guns are designed only to kill people/things. They have NO utility beyond their ability to kill people.

You don't see the government banging down my door for the large number of knives designed purely for killing humans.

Lets ban archery too! Lets ban boomerangs (very easily kill a person)! Lets ban bloody 6D Maglites!

Existence and his booty call mates would be long since dead if them and all their equally homosexually tensioned "wynnum enemies" were allowed to carry

Australia and even the US, you're not allowed to own firearms if you got any violence on your record.



last edited by CHUB at 12:49:43 18/Jun/07

Fortunately I also have a right to not be shot by a gun. So I propose a new law. The registered owner of a gun shall be responsible for any injuries caused by that gun. So irrespective of whether you shoot me with your gun or its used by someone who stole it you should face charges equivalent to say 60% of the sentence that would be given if you were directly responsible.

You know why laws like this are completely and utterly retarded? Because by the time you're enforcing them, it's too late. Someone's already dead.

A gun can be used to shoot things. I don't think there is anything you can legally shoot in Brisbane...

I could change the TV channel with my gun.

I could stab you with a chefs knife... same s***.

maybe to your broken brain, but not to a reasonably functional brain

There should be a reference point for threads like this, where points are raised by one side and then shot down immediately by others so we don't have to go through them all the time.

You don't see the government banging down my door for the large number of knives designed purely for killing humans.

Knives can't kill as many people as quickly and efficiently as guns. It's not a valid analogy. It's like me saying I should be allowed to have my own home made bombs. Hey, they're not hurting anyone!

Lets ban archery too! Lets ban boomerangs (very easily kill a person)! Lets ban bloody 6D Maglites!

Same as above. It's not easy for an unskilled person to kill someone with a bow and arrow or a boomerang. It's very easy for an unskilled person to kill someone with a gun.

now reply back chub and argue that it's not as easy as it looks to accurately hit someone with a gun, despite it utterly shattering your own knife analogy

Cause you'd hear shooting then everyone pulls out their guns looking for the person holding a gun. Thats where the fun starts.

Knives can't kill as many people as quickly and efficiently as guns. It's not a valid analogy. It's like me saying I should be allowed to have my own home made bombs. Hey, they're not hurting anyone!

Bollocks. It's a lot of work to get and hold a semi-automatic pistol, even then these are very limited and you would struggle to kill a large number of people.

I could take out more people with a 12 inch hunting knife then a bolt action rifle no problem.

Semi-automatic rifles are limited only to primary production and professional shooters and pump action shotguns are limited only to specific sporting events.

1. I am a part of primary production, 2. I eat a large majority of the food I shoot in recreational shooting, 3. It's a sport.

I'm not a farmer so I don't know if we're still in the days where you need a shotgun over the door so you can run out and quickly shoot a wolf if it's eating your sheep or whatever, but it doesn't really seem likely. How often do farmers need to shoot animals these days?

You know why laws like this are completely and utterly retarded? Because by the time you're enforcing them, it's too late. Someone's already dead.

Oh I realise it's a stupid idea. It was more to illustrate a point than anything else. People in gun control debates talk alot about rights but never about the responsibilities which should flow from rights.

I like that CHUB is still trying to think of other items which also kill people but which aren't illegal. For starters I think you'll find that archery equipment is controlled (at least crossbows are I think). Secondly it's a fantastic example of Appeal to the Status Quo or (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-common-practice.html) its other names. And he continues to bring up knives as though he doesn't want to be able to butter his toast in the morning. Maybe he butters his toast with his gun?

How often do farmers need to shoot animals these days?

If you do it yourself, every 2nd day or at least once a week with your standard centrefire rifle.

Or you can get a occupational shooter in every now and then... and they're allowed semi-automatic rifles with large magazines, which I bet you would have a bigger spat about.

Bollocks. It's a lot of work to get and hold a semi-automatic pistol, even then these are very limited and you would struggle to kill a large number of people.

Wow, do you know how many incidents there are that have proved you wrong? Virginia Tech, Martin Bryant, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

I could take out more people with a 12 inch hunting knife then a bolt action rifle no problem.

Right, but we're talking about semi-automatic weapons here. Otherwise I could say "I could kill a lot more people with a knitting needle than you could with a blunderbuss".

Semi-automatic rifles are limited only to primary production and professional shooters and pump action shotguns are limited only to specific sporting events.

That's cool, and that's one of the reasons why the gun deaths in Australia are so low.

Bollocks. It's a lot of work to get and hold a semi-automatic pistol, even then these are very limited and you would struggle to kill a large number of people.

I could take out more people with a 12 inch hunting knife then a bolt action rifle no problem.

It's pretty easy to kill several people from at least 5-10m with one knife is it?

Knives can't kill as many people as quickly and efficiently as guns. It's not a valid analogy. It's like me saying I should be allowed to have my own home made bombs. Hey, they're not hurting anyone!

Lets ban archery too! Lets ban boomerangs (very easily kill a person)! Lets ban bloody 6D Maglites!

Same as above. It's not easy for an unskilled person to kill someone with a bow and arrow or a boomerang. It's very easy for an unskilled person to kill someone with a gun.

Really in a gun control debate you shouldn't even engage on this point because it's both a distraction and laughable for the very reasons I've given before. It's got nothing to do with relative lethality to skill required. Any item which has no purpose other than to hurt people/animals should be regulated or banned depending on their relative risks to the populace.

Or you can get a occupational shooter in every now and then... and they're allowed semi-automatic rifles with large magazines, which I bet you would have a bigger spat about.

You're assuming I'm a rabid gun hating a****** without actually reading my posts though. I'm not opposed to guns in general. I'm sure an "occupational shooter", whatever that is, is held to much higher standards than other people with respect to what guns they have.

I'm opposed to the idea that the general populace, in any way, needs or should have access to guns, or be able to carry around concealed weapons. I'm opposed to the sort of thinking that goes "well, if other people in Melbourne had had guns, they would have been able to stop him". It's flawed thinking (if only because by the time anyone else had reacted, he would have already shot people).

I could take out more people with a 12 inch hunting knife then a bolt action rifle no problem.

that doesn't mean every other gun owner is gonna be as unco as you

I'm not a farmer so I don't know if we're still in the days where you need a shotgun over the door so you can run out and quickly shoot a wolf if it's eating your sheep or whatever, but it doesn't really seem likely. How often do farmers need to shoot animals these days?

I don't think that's really the point. besides, I hardly think chub is the kind of primary producer that really needs a gun, although I'm sure we'll get a story about why he claims he does. a treelopper servicing a city area is able to call themself a primary producer if they sell a small amount of sawdust and woodchip. allowing 'primary producers' extra access to more speclialised weapons is as silly as saying people should be allowed to carry guns

Wow, do you know how many incidents there are that have proved you wrong? Virginia Tech, Martin Bryant, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

1st, not Australia they have diffent laws. I have no idea why he was able to kill so many people, either a large magazine + no resistance, meaning he could stroll around at his leisure/reload and go on a spree... I'm still suprised nobody else had a gun and was able to act in self defense.

2nd, Bryant had large magazine, semi-automatic centrefire rifles... a lot different from a standard pistol, also he aquired this guns ILLEGALY, meaning it would have happened regardless.

allowing 'primary producers' extra access to more speclialised weapons is as silly as saying people should be allowed to carry guns

well that's why I was asking; I'm wondering if sheep farmers have to worry about dingos regularly or whatever. ie, is there actually a need for farmers to have access to guns any more?

I have no idea how many pests/feral animals/predators there are out there. Certainly don't hear about them being as big a risk as the drought.

I hardly think chub is the kind of primary producer that really needs a gun

Culling roo's with a macropods lincense is the number 1 reason governments permit class B, C and D licenses.

youre talking about gun laws and the 'need' to be able to carry concealed guns but how about some facts? the facts such that homicide rates by guns are the highest in countries that allow this?

1st, not Australia they have diffent laws.

yyyyyyyyyyes that's his point

also he aquired this guns ILLEGALY, meaning it would have happened regardless.

and that validates your argument how?

1st, not Australia they have diffent laws. I have no idea why he was able to kill so many people, either a large magazine + no resistance, meaning he could stroll around at his leisure/reload and go on a spree... I'm still suprised nobody else had a gun and was able to act in self defense.

2nd, Bryant had large magazine, semi-automatic centrefire rifles... a lot different from a standard pistol, also he aquired this guns ILLEGALY, meaning it would have happened regardless.

you're going off track here - you said that it's not easy to kill people with semi-automatic weapons, and I'm saying it certainly appears easy enough for these rejects to be able to do it

1st, not Australia they have diffent laws. I have no idea why he was able to kill so many people, either a large magazine + no resistance, meaning he could stroll around at his leisure/reload and go on a spree... I'm still suprised nobody else had a gun and was able to act in self defense.

2nd, Bryant had large magazine, semi-automatic centrefire rifles... a lot different from a standard pistol, also he aquired this guns ILLEGALY, meaning it would have happened regardless.

So shots are fired, 18 people including you charge into the room carrying guns while 50 other people are running out screaming in a sea of mass hysteria and confusion. Which one of the 19 people brandishing a firearm do you shoot? (At this point I’m not going to assume you’re not smart enough to exclude yourself from the list of targets in the room if you’re making the counter argument.)

also he aquired this guns ILLEGALY, meaning it would have happened regardless.

I can aquire lots of things illegally that I can't legally.
Doesn't mean they should be legal.

The point is, for someone to aquire guns illegally and go out and kill people means yes, it may have happened REGARDLESS.

But if Trog gets super angry and frustrated in a debate cause your a dong tugging clown who can't see the lack of common sense or logic in your argument and then shoots you in a fit of rage because he was carrying a gun... that would NOT have happened if he wasn't able to a gun in the first place...

By the time he went and aquired one he may/probably would have been over the impulsive rage.




Last I checked rifles aren't really "concealable", so why are you arguing about rifles when you CLEARLY stated the wish for people to be able to carry concealable weapons....
Why not just move to america?

last edited by Loki at 13:17:24 18/Jun/07

Or you could choke me with a piece of wire, run me over with a car, electrocute me with a car battery... The list goes on.

cept, you can't electrocute someone with a 12v car battery... it's not enough voltage to defribulate the heart :D afaik crossbows are controlled by the firearms laws but regular bows are not... i had to sell my old crossbow or get a licence for it ages ago.
au's gun laws don't stop crims getting hold of guns or ammo... but it's gotta make it a lot harder n more expensive for them so that's gotta be good overall.

you're going off track here - you said that it's not easy to kill people with semi-automatic weapons, and I'm saying it certainly appears easy enough for these rejects to be able to do it

I'm not going off the track, there is a difference in having a 30 clip high calibre magazine for a pistol and a 10 clip low calibre cartridge.

There is a difference between a 5 shot centrefire bolt action and a 30 shot centrefire semi-automatic rifle.

If you can't see that, you're blind.

I can aquire lots of things illegally that I can't legally.
Doesn't mean they should be legal.

Magazine fed, self loading centrefire rifles SHOULD be illegal, we're not arguing on that here? That's why Bryant is a moot point.


last edited by CHUB at 13:16:39 18/Jun/07

1. I am a part of primary production, 2. I eat a large majority of the food I shoot in recreational shooting, 3. It's a sport.

Hand guns aren't used by farmers. So that point is moot.
You don't hunt with a handgun.
Most of the laws brought in, specifically banned hand guns and weapons that could be used to kill numerous people in a short time, or were able to be hidden from view. Hence no semi-autos, no pump actions, and no hand guns.

You stupid gun fanboys need to realise that the guns being used to shoot animals (which i'm sorry is kinda f***ed up to start with) isn't the same as what is being used to kill people. Nobody is going to carry a bolt action rifle around the city to shoot someone.

"well, if other people in Melbourne had had guns, they would have been able to stop him". It's flawed thinking (if only because by the time anyone else had reacted, he would have already shot people).

Yeah, because "more guns" at Port Arthur (when they were still allowed somewhat), Columbine, Virginia Tech etc certainly helped.

Funny how the pro-gun United States still don't allow guns on airlines. Surely if there were guns on planes there would never be hijackings, right?

Morons.

cept, you can't electrocute someone with a 12v car battery... it's not enough voltage to defribulate the heart :D

Clearly you don't know very much about car batteries... or electricity.
You can happily survive 50,000 volts, if there's no current (edit: actually, I lie - if there's no current, there's no voltage either. You need at least a little current). It's the amperage which kills you, not voltage.
A car battery is well and truly enough to kill a person.

last edited by Raven at 13:19:52 18/Jun/07

Magazine fed, self loading centrefire rifles SHOULD be illegal, we're not arguing on that here? That's why Bryant is a moot point.

I thought we were aruging about people being allowed to carry concealed semi automatic weapons

You stupid gun fanboys need to realise that the guns being used to shoot animals (which i'm sorry is kinda f***ed up to start with)

I hope you're a vegan, otherwise you're a hypocritical knob.

Hunting game is much more humane then modern factory farming.

Also pistols are for sport shooting. It's a lengthy process to get a pistol, you have periods of probation and security checks. You must be a member of a gun organisation and a gun club. You must take part in a minimum number of organized meets a year and also compete in a minimum number of national competitions.

I thought we were aruging about people being allowed to carry concealed semi automatic weapons

Direct site carrying, not concealed. Also low capacity cartridges.

last edited by CHUB at 13:23:29 18/Jun/07

Diminishing the supply of semi automatic weapons freely available will have a flow on effect for illegally acquired guns. Less guns to steal, less guns to illegally sell.

Diminishing the supply of semi automatic weapons freely available will have a flow on effect for illegally acquired guns. Less guns to steal, less guns to illegally sell.

plus anyone caught with one illegally can be easily be considered a serious offender

This debate is f***ing retarded.
There is zero reason myself, or anybody else should be allowed to carry a gun through our CBD.

For thinking otherwise - especially saying you should be allowed to carry a concealable one, you're f***ing retarded.

I haven't seen too many wild boars running through the CBD lately to hunt, have you?

Direct site carrying, not concealed. Also low capacity cartridges.

Your first post said 'concealed' which I thought you were advocating.

What's a low capacity cartride? Or do you mean magazine

I thought we were aruging about people being allowed to carry concealed semi automatic weapons

Let's see if we can summarise CHUB's argument.

I support the right for every citizen to own firearms, pistols included.

Unfortunately Australia does not allow concealable weapons permits which is a pity, I think direct sight weapon carrying would be beneficial to person safety.

So every citizen should be allowed to carry a pistol/concealable weapons?

Australia and even the US, you're not allowed to own firearms if you got any violence on your record.

Hmmm, maybe not every citizen then?

Direct site carrying, not concealed. Also low capacity cartridges.

But they shouldn't have concealed weapons?
What exactly is your argument?

Your first post said 'concealed' which I thought you were advocating.

Class H licenses are called "concealable weapons license". It's just a technicality with the wording... carrying a pistol on your belt is carrying a concealed weapon by law.

Yes it shouldn't be concealed, no you shouldn't be allowed firearms if you have a violent record and I even propose a further restriction to 5 - 6 shot maximum capacity.

to settle this do we all agree that:

1) Necessary Gun Control legislation is in place - i did not say penalties are sufficient in your opinion. A little thing called judicial discretion means that this it out of the reach of the legislature.
2) There are valid uses for all different types of guns, sports, farming, hunting etc:
3) Given appropriate security checks, it is a persons right to own a firearm for a valid purpose
4) While gun control laws will reduce firearm related incidents, any wacko that is reasonably determined and reasonably intelligent will still have the capacity to acquire a firearm and use it to affect his purpose - regardless of said laws.
5) Trog is always right, otherwise he will lock this thread.

Clearly you don't know very much about car batteries... or electricity.
You can happily survive 50,000 volts, if there's no current. It's the amperage which kills you, not voltage.
A car battery is well and truly enough to kill a person.

rubbish. there is no way a car battery with it's 12v & ~800amps will stop the heart & any argument of yours is irrelevant as i have tested this on many occasions. it's also stupid to say that 50kV is harmless without current flow.. 50kV is the potential.. you touching it is the current flow.

So everybody that doesn't have a history of violence should be able to carry concealable weapons but not be allowed to conceal them? What does that achieve exactly?

Just to counter the argument that they could have shot this guy or any other random shooter (that suddenly got much easier access to the firearm), let's go back to the scenario where all of a sudden every punter has just drawn a gun within 3 city blocks of the shooting. Who do you shoot?

to settle this do we all agree that:

1) Necessary Gun Control legislation is in place - i did not say penalties are sufficient in your opinion. A little thing called judicial discretion means that this it out of the reach of the legislature.
2) There are valid uses for all different types of guns, sports, farming, hunting etc:
3) Given appropriate security checks, it is a persons right to own a firearm for a valid purpose
4) While gun control laws will reduce firearm related incidents, any wacko that is reasonably determined and reasonably intelligent will still have the capacity to acquire a firearm and use it to affect his purpose - regardless of said laws.
5) Trog is always right, otherwise he will lock this thread.

1)It's pretty good honestly
2)Yes, personal protection is not a valid reason by law. If you own a gun you should be forced to use it in primary production, hunting or sports shooting via the minimum requirements or lose your license, good laws I agree.
3)The security checks are very thorough, if you have any history of violence you will have no chance of getting a license
4)Common sense
5)He's a bit suss

chakas. you're not helping.

To me Chub is merely advocating that it is a persons right to own and carry a firearm should that person pass all necessary security checks.

Raven.
From wiki

Dry skin resistance is 10,000 ohms, wet skin resistance is 1,000 ohms.
Apparently you need 0.1-0.3 A to be fatal.
Which apparently means 1000Vs with dry skin and 100V with wet to kill.
But that's just wiki.

While a car battery certainly has enough power (P = IV) to kill you, it doesn't have enough voltage to drive the circuit. So to use a car battery you'll have to up the voltage significantly, which is doable (at least from my limited memory of electronics).

now we've got chub to agree. what about the rest of you bandits?

5) Trog is always right, otherwise he will lock this thread.

I'll never lock a thread just because someone disagrees with me, only if they act like a retard and refuse to engage in a reasonable discussion or back up their argument with fact or at least personal evidence

So everybody that doesn't have a history of violence should be able to carry concealable weapons but not be allowed to conceal them? What does that achieve exactly?

Self defense and the fact that you're advertising it.

Have a look at the self defense laws in Australia, it makes a fair bit of sense in their context.

How many people do you see attacking Armourguard and Chubb? An extremely small minority and I can tell you it's not the jail sentence that's deterring them.

chakas. you're not helping.

To me Chub is merely advocating that it is a persons right to own and carry a firearm should that person pass all necessary security checks.

And I'm contending that it shouldn't be a right to carry a firearm.

And I'm contending that it shouldn't be a right to carry a firearm.

Do you have any problem with me carrying a hunting knife on my belt? Honest question.

there is no way a car battery with it's 12v & ~800amps will stop the heart & any argument of yours is irrelevant as i have tested this on many occasions.

800amps at the heart would be enough to kill a gigantoraptor.
If you jumped in a pool and then electrocuted yourself with a car battery - you have a pretty good chance you're going to die. (skin provides a hell of alot of resistance - more so than anything inside your body, get the skin wet and you're looking at alot less resistance)

More voltage = More Amps and vice versa.
You can't have one without the other.


last edited by Loki at 13:52:57 18/Jun/07

hey raven can you come work your magic on my battery, I'd like to get 10k amps out of it I could winch range rovers out all day long and not break a sweat

While a car battery certainly has enough power (P = IV) to kill you, it doesn't have enough voltage to drive the circuit. So to use a car battery you'll have to up the voltage significantly, which is doable (at least from my limited memory of electronics).

well then it wouldn't be a 12 volt battery. to keep it as a 12volt battery and be deadly, it would need to be able to supply high amps long enough to kill, but usually 12volt batteries are between 400 and 1000 cca so they'd be flat out supplying high amps long enough

and why not have the right to carry a firearm?

I believe it is a person right to partake in any activity, join any association and voice any opinion which does not injure another person or society as a whole. . This is the basic notion of Australian society. Citizens must bear the onus to upholding this notion, which is supplemented by legislation to ensure compliance. My evidence

1) Gun Control laws
2) Driving Laws
3) Criminal Code
4) Workplace Health and Safety
5) National Park Presevation

Do you have any problem with me carrying a hunting knife on my belt? Honest question.

Depends on the context. If you're on the farm or out in the bush no. If you're walking down the Queen St Mall with it then yes I do have a problem with it.

LOL. there are two debates going on here. Gun Control and something about electrocuting Jim with a car battery

c'mon... asif everyone hasn't touched both terminals of a car battery at some stage in yur life... it doesn't even tingle!#!@# n don't gimme that 'if yur hands were wet' or 'if you applied the terminals directly to the heart muscles'... coz thats just avoiding the actual point.

I believe it is a person right to partake in any activity,

And I believe that all people of religious belief should be put to death as they are delusion, irrational, and a hinderence to society, but that doesn't make it right.

the gun one is old and boring and only serves to provide mild amusement until we get bored of laughing at a fool who thinks we should all be allowed to carry guns around in public

the 12volt battery one is good because if I can uncover the hidden secrets of how to turn my deep cycle battery into a WINCHING MONSTER and save myself the pain of mounting a second alternator

Do you have any problem with me carrying a hunting knife on my belt? Honest question.

No, I can run Fairly fast. Fast enough to out-run most people wielding a Knife.
Somehow, I doubt im fast enough to out run a Bullet.

Would I run if I saw a Person Wielding a Gun or waving around a Big f*** OFF knife?
Hell yes.

read further than 10 words raven.... "as long as it does not injure another or society as a whole"

and why not have the right to carry a firearm?

If there is a definite use/need for it then fine (e.g. pest control on a farm). Letting people have them for possible person protection reasons leads to what I would consider an unacceptable risk vs reward. The reward of protection is not something that will definitely be needed for most people given how essentially peaceful our society is (I've never been in a situation where I've thought 's***, I could have really used a gun'). Whereas I consider the risk of guns falling into the hands of those that will misuse them (if they are more readily available) a definite and therefore not worth it..

I am just worried that there will another hastily draft knee-jerk legislative response by the Victorian Parliament in response to this.

Often the best response isn't a legislative change, but education and prevention operations. But the today-tonight watching population which unfortunetly looking from the comments on news.com.au represents the majority of Australia will not be satisfied.

well then it wouldn't be a 12 volt battery. to keep it as a 12volt battery and be deadly

Your spark plugs fire at 20-40kV.
The coil steps up the voltage using magnetic fields from 12V to 20,000V to 40,000V - you should know that.
And with voltage comes amperage.
(If you have been shocked by your car post-coil steppage you'd know that you can feel it go through your extremities and to your heart and make it beat hard and fast).
The battery is still 12V but the entire circuit is more... If you want strictly 12v then:

but usually 12volt batteries are between 400 and 1000 cca so they'd be flat out supplying high amps long enough

It would be plenty enough to kill you if you lower the resistance of your skin by jumping in a pool for example.

A 9V battery can kill you if the amperage can get to the heart without the resistance.
only need 100milliamps to disrupt the electrical nodes that control your heart rhythm.

To do that, like I said, you can jump in a pool of water and lower your body resistance significantly. (maybe like 100 fold more significantly?)
It might NOT necessarily kill you, but it certainly could.

The m ain point is, a car battery can output EASILY (about 4,000 times enough for a low CCA battery) amperage to kill someone.

Whether you can overcome the resistance of the skin to do it or not is another question entirely. Getting soppy wet is a good start.
Having any sort of heart condiition is another good start (not everyone is a fit and healthy 18 y.o)

last edited by Loki at 14:07:09 18/Jun/07

chakas, while i'm not fluent in the gun control legislation, i'm under the impression that personal protection is not an accepted reason to obtain a firearms license.

could be wrong but.

I am just worried that there will another hastily draft knee-jerk legislative response by the Victorian Parliament in response to this.

I don't think we need to make any legislative changes, I just don't think more people carrying a pistol on the streets will make society better in any way (which was the original argument).

crazy people will always be able to use every day things to hurt/kill non crazy people if they want to. Someone could really just as easily kill 5 people with a car as with a gun, but they're not likely to ban cars.

I'm all for gun control but in the end I really think if a crazy person wants to kill a bunch of people, they're gonna have a pretty good crack at it. Far more money should be spent on mental health care.

I agree Chakas, but I still believe the licensed population should reserve the right to use firearms for valid means

I agree Chakas, but I still believe the licensed population should reserve the right to use firearms for valid means

When it's qualified with 'valid means' that's fine by me (as to what exactly valid means are - that's a whole sub-debate). I just disagree with the blanket statements about having a right to carry a gun. A basic right doesn't speak to any form of qualification regarding uses, and then that degenerated into a debate about more guns detering gun misuse which I also disagree with.

Would I run if I saw a Person Wielding a Gun or waving around a Big f*** OFF knife?
Hell yes.

That's the exact point. I have a 10+1/2 inch double edged 1/2 serrated hunting knife under my shirt/clipped to shorts at ALL TIMES, even while sleeping.

I've probably had 15 - 20 encounters over the past 3 - 4 years I've had had this knife (including 3 in my own house, 1 WHILE sleeping) where I have wielded this knife within 0.5 second of being intimidated. Every single time (even a 4 vs 1 encounter) this has resulted in no conflict and the other party retreating.

I don't feel safe without weapons on me... I don't know how people live day to day with all violent f***tards around.

where the f*** do you live dude, afghanistan?

more guns deterring gun misuse is an argument only a republican from Texas could make. one of the stupidest things i've heard all year.

i'm not sure whether everyone has gone to lunch, or go bored of it. or has finally agreed. but thank god i'm not hitting f5 and finding 5 replies

Your spark plugs fire at 20-40kV.
The coil steps up the voltage using magnetic fields from 12V to 20,000V to 40,000V - you should know that.
And with voltage comes amperage.

with voltage comes the *potential* for amperage

so what do we do now, change denny's comment to "Or you could choke me with a piece of wire, run me over with a car, electrocute me with a car battery provided you could remove enough of the resistance offered by the parts of my body between my skin and heart"

No I have lived in bad suburbs, I do a lot of walking at night, I'm very skinny (60kg for 6 foot 2) and often alone.

= can't rely on my fists

That's the exact point. I have a 10+1/2 inch double edged 1/2 serrated hunting knife under my shirt/clipped to shorts at ALL TIMES, even while sleeping.

dude, i was on your side. until then.

Seriously, where to do you live? Woodridge? Inala?

http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/9905/0553019800un1.jpg

dude, i was on your side. until then.

What's the difference? I never pull it unless I'm intimidated/attacked.

Why is the mere act of carrying a weapon any cause for alarm.

chub, you're living in a world of make-believe, with flowers and bells and leprechauns, and magic frogs with funny little hats

if you are so small. what's stopping them from overpowering you and using the weapon against you?

why are the police carrying shotguns? surely in a metropolitan area the shotgun pellet radius would render them unable to be used.

I'd presume they'd would be employing a more accurate firearm?

if you are so small. what's stopping them from overpowering you and using the weapon against you?

Human psychology... knives are intimidating, guns are intimidating. I don't care how big you are, if you have a massive knife pulled on you with a large scream and foward movement, you will retreat.

What's stopping people from pulling the gun out of a police officers holster and shooting them?

so what do we do now

Precisely =D

(I was more pointing out a battery has the potential to kill cause someone was saying it was completely impossible =] )

Look all I know is bull bars on cars used for picking up the kids and doing shopping runs and driving back and forwards to work. eg. JIM'S NANCY MOBILE!

Should be banned.

See the mistake I made coming into this debate was thinking that Chub was reasonable and sane.

I like particularly how you justify wielding a weapon when you're "inimidated" because surely that will diffuse the situation!

What about when someone draws a gun on you then dude?

OH NOES WHAT HAVE I DONE

Why is the mere act of carrying a weapon any cause for alarm.

Because you’ve got a big f***off knife, so the next guy brings a gun, so the next guy brings a ‘better gun’ that can more people quickly. Then it’s all spiralled out of control. Or how about I don't know you and all I've got is your word on the internet that you're not going to stab someone for accidentally bumping into you drunk at the pub?

drop the knife. give them your wallet :P

What about when someone draws a gun on you then dude?

OH NOES WHAT HAVE I DONE

If guns were legal you would shoot them, if you don't have one on you, you're farked... which means they're illegally carrying and GUN CONTROL has not done it's part and put power in the criminals hand = you're at their mercy.

The old saying goes "Don't pull a knife if you're not going to use it", so if pulling a knife result in them pulling a knife, you're either in a conflict or you run.

I actually thought it was illegal to carry concealed knives as well?

studies have shown that bullbars can only kill you if you jump into a pool and get hit while submerge

and for the record. if you ever had to use the knife against a person/s who didnt possess a weapon they is no way you can hide behind the self defence provision of the legislation.

One is only allowed to use reasonable force to defend themselves.. read reasonable as being "consistent to the threat" ie: knife v knife, gun v gun. definitely not knife v fist (no matter how much bigger) the person was.

perhaps if you were grossly outnumbered.. im talking like 5v1. but still arguable at best.

Because you’ve got a big f***off knife, so the next guy brings a gun, so the next guy brings a ‘better gun’ that can more people quickly. Then it’s all spiralled out of control. Or how about I don't know you and all I've got is your word on the internet that you're not going to stab someone for accidentally bumping into you drunk at the pub?

Well nothing is stopping the scum of society and carrying a knife in that situation.

So when you get attacked, what situation do you want to be in... without a weapon and outpowered or with a weapon and on equal grounds? If you're responsible and not causing trouble, what's the harm in being prepared to defend yourself?

trog = correct. any concealed weapon (including trolley bars, and hammers could be construed)

I actually thought it was illegal to carry concealed knives as well?

You are completely correct trog, though you can see my standpoint on that... if I believe people should be carrying pistols.

This thread was entertaining until I read that there's crazed lunatics walking the streets with knives and guns (yes you Chub).

Newflash! Large amounts of people are hiding butterfly knives, switchblades, hunting knives on them at all times.

Are you people living in a hole or something? Or perhaps I just secrete some hormone that begs for people to assault me.

^^ civilisation

This thread has been extremely fun :D

Tony wins news.com.au comments:

I believe every police car should be outfitted with a flux capacitor, and police be provided with timecop training.

Posted by: Tony of Moorebank 2:03pm today
Comment 372 of 381

also,
chub is retarded.

And with voltage comes amperage.

Well, actually, that's inversely. From the same source, current is inversely proportional to voltage. eg, 12V/1A -> 1200V = 10mA. But you already knew that, right? :)

read further than 10 words raven....

Aw, but doesn't that defeat the fun in selective quoting?

What this thread really illustrates is the fear mentality that too many Americans and Chub have.

While I accept that there are dangers inherent in urban living the reality is that they are remote enough for me to rationally accept that arming myself on a 24hr basis is an non-proportional response to an unlikely event.

It also illustrates the illusion that these people have as to the effectiveness of their "defences". There are issues of willingness to harm other people that I'd hope most regular people just don't possess.

On top of all this there seems to be a very fatalistic urge within these sorts of people to not mitigate their risk of harm. As with any idiotperson carrying a weapon there seems to be a stupefying ego boost which leads them to not only avoid confrontations but to eagerly wade into them.

In conclusion lets all laugh at the crazy man.

Newflash! Large amounts of people are hiding butterfly knives, switchblades, hunting knives on them at all times.

Are you people living in a hole or something? Or perhaps I just secrete some hormone that begs for people to assault me.

Maybe its not random dude. Have you ever considered that its the CIA tracking you?

I actually thought it was illegal to carry concealed knives as well?

I don't know if it's a Victorian state, or federal law, but here it's illegal to carry a blade in excess of 10mm. That includes retractable blades.

Perhaps you should change your tampon Denny and put 000 speed dial into all your phones.

God knows you would handle a conflict well.

try to justify your rambo wannabe, like a chub

The m ain point is, a car battery can output EASILY (about 4,000 times enough for a low CCA battery) amperage to kill someone.

was that the main point? :P wet, dry or lubed up with your lube of choice, you can safely touch both terminals (or anywhere else if thats your thing) of a car battery.

(I was more pointing out a battery has the potential to kill cause someone was saying it was completely impossible =] )

no, i said it was impossible to electrocute someone with a car battery (just the battery, no attachements!) & it is, impossible. a car battery still has the potential to kill someone... for instance if you left it teetering on the edge of a 20th floor windowsill on a windy day!

It's not rambo at all, it's self defense.

If you attack me in the street, you will get a blade pulled.

If you attack me in my home unarmed, you will get a blade pulled. If you attack me with a blade/weapon you will get a Beretta pulled.

If you pull a gun on me, you will get shot.

It's not that hard to understand. Nobody is hurt without any DIRECT action from the other party... the end result = I'm alive = the f***ing point in life.

the battery would teeter indefinitely unless we focused our negative thoughts on it's window-most side

Perhaps you should change your tampon Denny and put 000 speed dial into all your phones.

God knows you would handle a conflict well.

Haha, I haven't been in a fight or even anything near one since 6th grade ya knob. And that's not for want of going out clubbing, catching the train home and passing out in bushes, travelling the world, being the only whitey in the room.

So yes, clearly I do handle conflicts well.

I think you must wear a "Kick Me" sign or something.

Look all I know is bull bars on cars used for picking up the kids and doing shopping runs and driving back and forwards to work. eg. JIM'S NANCY MOBILE!

Yeah! Man up and get a short-wheel based suzuki vitara instead! That and get some kids ;)

it's good to see the government has the bulk of you lemmings under control.

there is a new law about unlicensed ass wiping coming in soon too. so get ready to go and get your ass-wiping licenses!!

is community really that bad?

I'm 20 and have never been involved in a fight (apart from on the football field)

I can probably count the number of fights i've witnessed since turning 18 on a single hand. And i'm in the valley most weekends.

your negative thoughts would merely ground out to the window sill following the path of least resistance... you need positive thoughts to increase the potential danger! like 'i wish this battery would fall on some gun-toting nutjob!' :D

It's not that hard to understand. Nobody is hurt without any DIRECT action from the other party... the end result = I'm alive = the f***ing point in life.

So you say, but I don't know you enough to trust your word. End result = you and anyone else carrying concealed weapons e.g.

Large amounts of people are hiding butterfly knives, switchblades, hunting knives on them at all times.

should all be locked up.

should all be locked up.

Take some responsibility.

Should I be locked up for carrying around a hunting boomerang? I could easily kill you at 30 - 50m with one of them.

Should I be locked up for carrying a screwdriver? Perhaps the most brutal domestic violence instrument of all time :D

you could well be locked up for carrying either, and for good reason

Chub, perhaps you take too many risks ?

I have never been mugged, in fact the only time I have been in any fights (outside a ring) was when I was younger (18/19), in the Army and basically caused it or encouraged it. (Alcohol was usually involved)

you could well be locked up for carrying either, and for good reason

Laws please.

I don't see any reason I couldn't carry a leatherman in DIRECT SIGHT on a genuine farm toolbelt around Queen St Mall.

Chub, perhaps you take too many risks ?

I take no risks at all. I have never started a fight in my entire life. Anybody that has met me/spoken to me knows I'm the skinniest, pussiest piece of s*** to walk this planet.

Doesn't mean I don't stand up and take responsibility/defend myself when attacked. I'm not going to be one of those people that goes "oh god, don't hurt me" and complys at the sight of a 3 inch folding knife.

last edited by CHUB at 14:56:26 18/Jun/07

chub is an idiot.

Laws please.

Sure

In Queensland, a new law prohibits carrying a knife in public without a "reasonable" excuse - a loophole that, the police minister stressed, did not include self-defense.

Edit: site has some pop ups so you might only want to click on that link if you don't believe me.

last edited by Chakas at 15:01:00 18/Jun/07

Wasn't in reference to knives, was specifically to a boomerang and a screwdriver.

Possibly a underaged person with violence might have problems, but a responsible adult with no record can wear a leatherman or any large multitool on their belt... with a decent sharpening stone can provide a MORE effective weapon then a switchblade.

Carrying the hunting knife you say you always have on is illegal.

Indeed it is :)

^^ however should the intend to use such instrument to inflict bodily, or to intimidate, or to commit an indictable offence such instrument then because an weapon as classified by the Weapons Act (Weapons Classification Regulation) and is then subjected to the same concealed provision as knives or other offensive weapons.

last post ^^

i really need to get out of this forum... i have a contracts as well as a torts exam on this week. should be studying :(

^^ however should the intend to use such instrument to inflict bodily, or to intimidate, or to commit an indictable offence such instrument then because an weapon as classified by the Weapons Act (Weapons Classification Regulation) and is then subjected to the same concealed provision as knives or other offensive weapons.

Thought crime is a load of BS, the person will have a phillips head through their neck before that law was enacted.

The illusion of public safety is not real.

chub, I dunno why you suddenly want to stipulate that the weapon needs to be in plain sight and still be illegal, when you've been talking about your weapon being concealed, but ok... even still the law covers that under the crimes amendment offensive weapons bill where it says:

Offensive weapon or instrument means:

(a) a dangerous weapon, or

(b) any thing that is made or adapted for offensive purposes, or

(c) any thing that, in the circumstances, is used, intended for use or threatened to be used for offensive purposes, whether or not it is ordinarily used for offensive purposes or is capable of causing harm.

so I say again, yes, you could well be locked up for carrying either, and for good reason

people like you are the reason criminal defence lawyers make so much money.

The law is there for a reason, for it is the voice of reason (most of the time). You seem to have some misguided belief that you can break the law (carry the knife) if you can somehow justify it by your bronx-style ghetto attitude towards conflict resolution. The fact that your first thought was towards inflicting a screwdriver towards someones neck exemplifies that you are no better than the mugger, or the robber, for that fact you are probably worse.

ok.. i lied. this is my last post.

Oh, no doubt if you used a sharpened multitool in an offensive manner or had any violence background pointing to use in a violence manner... you would be gone.

I'm merely talking about the mere act of having some object on your tool belt, it's defensive and offensive ability it equivalent of an illegal weapon.

That's merely what I'm stating, no arguing that you wouldn't be up the s***ter if you actually used it.

itt chub never gets invited to a qgl ever. also what do i have to do for you to pull an archery bow on me, cos that´d be awesome.

have you ever thought that the reason you´re getting 15-20 attacks in the last 3 years or wahtever is that the people remember you or point you out to their friends or something? Like some sorta history, i´ve only ever had a stranger say something bad to me once in my life and i was like 10 and he asked me what i was looking at, i´m really curious to live a day in the life of chub fending off would be attackers

The illusion of public safety is not real.

This is a very good point. Public safety, much like banking, is a confidence tricks of the few against the many. But like any house of cards, with one falter the whole system collapses.

Looting in New Orleans and more recently this month during some of these storms etc is a perfect example of when perfectly normal people disregard all rules.

I was preparing for a government accreditation thingy in my business the other day (for my 24/7 aged care service) and they asked: how can you continue to provide your services during a strike or civil disturbance?

We tossed that one around for a while until I resigned myself to the fact that in the event of civil disturbance it is every f***ing man for himself.

Then you will be wishing you owned the gun.

You seem to have some misguided belief that you can break the law (carry the knife)

You would be suprised... having a rope slung canteen, a compass, ankle supporting hiking boots and a solid rucksack on and you're home free.

Technicalities ftw.

I'm just trying to get a rise now :) QGL is a funny place, I hope we have another steak meat again :P

infi can you be my life mentor plz

The illusion of public safety is not real.



This is a very good point.

That's not a good point because it doesn't make sense - if anything, it negates it's intended purpose by suggesting that public safety is not an illusion.

last edited by Jim at 15:21:33 18/Jun/07

The illusion of public safety is not real.

This is a very good point.

That's not a good point because it doesn't make sense - if anything, it negates it's intended purpose by suggesting that public safety is not an illusion.

Jim's safe, he's got a bull bar!

Jim it's an animal... the whole concept of "state" doesn't apply when it comes to the crunch, even the most law abiding citizen will resort to natural instincts.

Then you will be wishing you owned the gun.

since when was this about *owning* a gun. I already own guns and the law allows me to. This thread clearly isn't about that.

That's the exact point. I have a 10+1/2 inch double edged 1/2 serrated hunting knife under my shirt/clipped to shorts at ALL TIMES, even while sleeping.

I've probably had 15 - 20 encounters over the past 3 - 4 years I've had had this knife (including 3 in my own house, 1 WHILE sleeping) where I have wielded this knife within 0.5 second of being intimidated. Every single time (even a 4 vs 1 encounter) this has resulted in no conflict and the other party retreating.

I don't feel safe without weapons on me... I don't know how people live day to day with all violent f***tards around.

great post, i haven't laughed this hard at QGL for a while now.

i'm glad we've got hard c***s like you around chub, i feel sorry for ze germans when they get here.

edit: ps. you're f***ing retarded, both for carrying weapons like that around and for thinking that posting that you carry weapons around will get any other response than people calling you an utter f***ing retard. i honestly hope to god you never breed.

oh, and you're hardcore dude.

last edited by taggs at 15:29:48 18/Jun/07

I don't see any reason I couldn't carry a leatherman in DIRECT SIGHT on a genuine farm toolbelt around Queen St Mall.

What the HELL are you farming in Queen Street?
I go camping and have Machete/Axe, but I dont take them into the f***ing city with me.
Sounds like you need to harden the f*** up.

Chub, have you ever uttered the words "That ain't a knife" ?

Looting in New Orleans and more recently this month during some of these storms etc is a perfect example of when perfectly normal people disregard all rules.

sorry, but looters aren't perfectly normal - except perfectly normal criminals. Asif you'd kick them when they're down.

do you live in ipswich chub?

I just took my leatherman out the back to the fax machine and brandished it around a bit in pliers mode and I have to admit, nobody attacked me not even bobainthecorner

sorry, but looters aren't perfectly normal - except perfectly normal criminals

with respect, you couldn't be more wrong. looters are everybody, gone sick and giddy with the absence of law and order.

HAH! Ticman I actually have when I used to carry around my Smith and Wesson Special Ops series, but later retired it since it looked like a brutal switchblade... somebody pulled one of those $15 indian flick knives from a tobacconist at a skatepark.

do you live in ipswich chub?

Deception Bay born and bred, now Wynnum (moved about 5 weeks ago)... been attacked in my own street twice since I moved and another time at the train station... seems worse then bloody Dbay.

Sounds like you need to harden the f*** up.

I'm not hard, that's the point. If I get attacked by a larger person, I'm not going to fight a losing battle, I pull a knife.

Bloody makes sense doesn't it?



last edited by CHUB at 15:38:32 18/Jun/07

persay, i was about to ask you the same thing.

no you couldn't be more wrong infi

now you are too

no u

I'm not hard, that's the point. If I get attacked by a larger person, I'm not going to fight a losing battle, I pull a knife.

Bloody makes sense doesn't it?

No, not really.
Run > Call Police > Call for help.

Breaking the law yourself doesn't bloody make sense now does it?

last edited by Scooter at 15:49:50 18/Jun/07

Having a weapon doesn't disqualify you from running though Scooter... I don't deny I have ran from encounters that either would of ended in myself killed/me committing manslaughter, but keeping the options open doesn't hurt either.

with respect, you couldn't be more wrong. looters are everybody, gone sick and giddy with the absence of law and order.

no, they're just criminals. If you're saying you'd loot a store just because there was noone there to stop you, you're a potential criminal too. I know I wouldn't

Big call trog.

Would I loot stores for water and food if society had broken down and I was going to die otherwise? Hell yes I would.

Social conditioning has absolutely destroyed your instincts if you say otherwise.

there are plenty of people from new orleans who looted (committed any crime) for the first time on that day/week. same back when rodney king happened. look at the looters in france during the riots last year.

now you're going to make me google for the damn evidence. f***it.

Puling a knife isn't a real option, I cant see how you dont think it escalates the problem.

Didn't your mother ever teach you that 2 wrongs dont make a right?

chub's blatent egotistical self-masturbation about how tough he is carrying weapons around reminded me from that line from The Departed:

I'm concerned about a Chinaman, who thinks it's wise to come to a business meeting, carrying automatic weapons. Because in this country, it don't add inches to your dick, you get a life sentence for it.

take out the word automatic and it seems highly appropriate to this all this stupidity.

edit: added bold for chub's sake

last edited by taggs at 15:55:46 18/Jun/07

Puling a knife isn't a real option, I cant see how you dont think it escalates the problem.

Well it isn't a matter of "thinking", personal experience has made multiple (biggest group was 4 - 5) "tough c***s" retreat from a skinny white noob... if they attacked, I would probably run, but 99% of the time that doesn't happen.

LOL, I got to bail out of this thread... and hide, till Splat comes back and organizes another QGL skirmish day.

Big call trog.

Would I loot stores for water and food if society had broken down and I was going to die otherwise? Hell yes I would.

We're not talking if society had broken down and getting food to survive, we're talking about f***heads stealing TVs

LOL, I got to bail out of this thread... and hide, till Splat comes back and organizes another QGL skirmish day.

f*** that, I'd be worried about this happening:

Big call trog.

Would I loot stores for water and food if society had broken down and I was going to die otherwise? Hell yes I would.

Social conditioning has absolutely destroyed your instincts if you say otherwise.

it's not a big call at all, if you're an honorable person and choose to act as such

ironically, claiming that social conditioning has destroyed someone's instincts just because they know they aren't prepared to make the same decisions you are, is an actual demonstration of social conditioning - not the other way around

there are plenty of people from new orleans who looted (committed any crime) for the first time on that day/week.

so? the week that a bank robber robbed his first bank came and went as well. all you're highlighting are people who typically refrain from breaking the law because the payoff isn't greater than the fear of repercussion, and assuming, based laregly on your own self-perception, that everyone in or even most of society falls into this category

Well in my personal experience if less people were carrying weapons, EVERYONE else would be safer.

You are the 'Tough c***' with the knife.

my self-perception!? read lord of the flies some time. welcome to grade 8.

haha read lord of the flies, is that seriously your answer

You are the 'Tough c***' with the knife.

LOL man, I wish I had a picture.

Like I said, I'm 60kg and 6 foot 2, I look like a skeleton... I have never started a fight in my whole life and I will never pull a weapon/attack unless I'm under physical danger.

If that's the definition of a tough c***, the world has turned upside down.

a masterpiece of modern literature all about the feebleness of social order. how irrelevant.

heh. perhaps if it's grade8 material it's not particularly relevant eh? especially as the lord of the flies was fiction, about children, with no guns & nothing to loot. :P epic thread... just needs rev now to say everyone has done well to seal the deal.

haha read lord of the flies, is that seriously your answer

LOLOL!!! for extreme relevance... certain grade 8 english classes got that book, others (myself) got "The Outsiders", which prompted me to buy my first $40 Smith and Wesson folding knife that I wore on my belt from the start of highschool till nearly a decade later now.

i meant to warn, reading that book WILL make you psycho.

extreme relevance... that's like... relevance but with a big f***-off knife amirite!?

Na, I was a tard back then with an ego.

Now after a decade of political and social study I've come to my current understanding.

Perfect example of how popular culture can influence people though.

ffs needs hermi pic

we all should have a knife fight day instead of QGL LAN

infi: yes, the relevance of the book's theme is really the question I raised...

it's fine for you to perceive things a certain way, but you're wrong to assume everyone is like you, or some people you read about

LOLOL!!! for extreme relevance... certain grade 8 english classes got that book, others (myself) got "The Outsiders", which prompted me to buy my first $40 Smith and Wesson folding knife that I wore on my belt from the start of highschool till nearly a decade later now.

I had to read the Outsiders (and Lord of the Flies) in Grade 8 as well and all it made me buy was grease so I could slick my hair back like the guys in the movies

edit: lord of the flies, not animal farm

last edited by trog at 16:35:33 18/Jun/07

Na, I was a tard back then with an ego.

Now after a decade of political and social study I've come to my current understanding.

Perfect example of how popular culture can influence people though.

and what ... that understanding makes you an expert at life? bravo noob

wannabe spick^^

jim: as long as you perceive you're safe, it will be ok.






;)

last edited by infi at 16:24:07 18/Jun/07

Come on trog, you wanted a switchblade, admit it!

I still got my original Smith and Wesson from Grade 8. I nearly bought some bryll cream (sp?) and attempted to buy a reasonably vintage car... ended up with a Sigma :(

and what ... that understanding makes you an expert at life? bravo noob

Nobody is right or wrong... we are all individuals with opinions (sometimes they may collide or group).

last edited by CHUB at 16:25:24 18/Jun/07

I just dont see why youre complaining about the laws here and feel the need to carry concealed s*** ... we have it good here and it definitely has not come to that in any place around here that I've been to

perceive this: ,,|.

All I see is the difference between someone growing up in D'Bay and someone growing up in everywhere else.

Edit: If I grew up there, I'd probably own an M16 or something.

with respect, you couldn't be more wrong. looters are everybody, gone sick and giddy with the absence of law and order.

This is the problem I have with religious types. They need something to dictate to them what is right and wrong, and their moral values, be it from a god or from the police, are external. They have no moral fiber on their own.

Those of us, the type trog refers to in the first place, who don't need this kind of law and order to choose right from wrong or to keep us in line are, are not the type of people you need to worry about in general.

I'm not hard, that's the point. If I get attacked by a larger person, I'm not going to fight a losing battle, I pull a knife.

Sure, until that larger (or smaller) person knows how to disarm you with said knife, and then turns it on you, and you end up in a pool of your own blood, with only video evidence to show that you were the one who first produced the weapon, and the other person acted only in self-defence.

Because face it d*******, under Australian law, pulling a knife on a barehand person *is not* self-defence, and you'll get done for murder (not manslaughter, note) or attempted murder if you don't finish the job. We don't have stupid laws like in the US where 'dead men tell no stories'.

infi's perceived social threat from people in the world is actually just insecurity about his waistly girth.

Sure, until that larger (or smaller) person knows how to disarm you with said knife, and then turns it on you, and you end up in a pool of your own blood, with only video evidence to show that you were the one who first produced the weapon, and the other person acted only in self-defence.

All I can say is, that is life, if would be a failed outcome but it's how life goes.

Because face it d*******, under Australian law, pulling a knife on a barehand person *is not* self-defence, and you'll get done for murder (not manslaughter, note) or attempted murder if you don't finish the job. We don't have stupid laws like in the US where 'dead men tell no stories'.

I have no be put in that situaton. Though like I said, only 1 time I have been attacked by a barehanded person while wielding a knife... being a 60kg long distance runner with 15 years of training I outran them like a joke... though if it came down to the crunch, I don't know how I would react, I'll let my natural instincts decide...

i better start carrying a gun just in case i encounter chub on my travels and he looks at me in a way that makes me wanna attack him

/me Packs a SMG in case he runs into Persay who's carrying a Pistol in case he runs into Chub who's carrying a knife.

Pretty sure CHUB is Hunter

Chump you're a f***ing retard.

Do you really think a 60kg guy with a knife is going to stand a chance at defending himself against a determined and physically larger attacker.

I've heard and its relevant to note that in many cases where a person is killed during a home invasion its actually a result of the home owner having their weapon of self-defense turned on themselves. I don't have statistics for this, wikipedia or the internet probably does. I'd also imagine that in the vast majority of home invasions the motivating factor is money, rather than to injure the home owner. With that in mind, why would you want to risk your own safety confronting an intruder with a weapon that can be easily turned on yourself. Especially given that you are more than likely just exscalating the danger of the whole situation with your reckless bravado.

And seriously who the f*** wants to get stabbed (for a dvd player no less), its worse than being shot any day i'd imagine.

And guns for self-defense are useless unless the attacker has seen the weapon before hand (the only study i've seen that suggest guns reduce violence are related to the initial deterrent factor, ie you are less likely to attack someone if you think they might be packing heat). And even so, i'd imagine throwing another gun into the mix would only escalate the situation, rather than defuse it.

Do you really think a 60kg guy with a knife is going to stand a chance at defending himself against a determined and physically larger attacker

If I'm in the streets I hold a hunting knife that shaves hair at a touch that's the length of a 30cm ruler. If I'm at home I have a 0.38cal Beretta with a 10 clip... seems like pretty good odds to me.

With that in mind, why would you want to risk your own safety confronting an intruder with a weapon that can be easily turned on yourself.

Errrhhhh, I have no idea what prompted this sentence but you have no clue of the criminal culture.

And seriously who the f*** wants to get stabbed (for a dvd player no less), its worse than being shot any day i'd imagine.

Nobody wants to get stabbed or shot, that's the point. We had 3 people attacking the house around 4 days ago... I went outside with a poolstick and a dolphin light... all 3 c***s sprinted like bitches.

And guns for self-defense are useless unless the attacker has seen the weapon before hand

You have no idea what goes into my self defence. Self defence comes before career and shelter for me, the only thing that only matches self defence is food.

Anyone that has broken into my home has retreated, anyone that has attacked solo in the street has retreated. I feel extremely safe at all times.

The result = I feel safe at all times, end of story. What's the problem with that. I have never attacked anyone without intimidation.

I don't see the problem.

last edited by CHUB at 17:33:33 18/Jun/07

Suicide is sometimes considered the ultimate form of self defence, please invest in it.

And guns for self-defense are useless unless the attacker has seen the weapon before hand (the only study i've seen that suggest guns reduce violence are related to the initial deterrent factor, ie you are less likely to attack someone if you think they might be packing heat). And even so, i'd imagine throwing another gun into the mix would only escalate the situation, rather than defuse it.

The book 'Vengeance' explains this pretty well:
- Never draw your gun unless you are already committed to using it
- Never fire your gun unless you are aiming to kill
- Always fire in groups of two shots

The last one isn't really going to help anyone here, but you get the point.

Very good post Raven.

- Always fire in groups of two shots

Unforunately the majority of Beretta models have beeen disabled for 3 shot multi-fire :(

last edited by CHUB at 17:44:06 18/Jun/07

The book 'Vengeance' explains this pretty well:
- Never draw your gun unless you are already committed to using it
- Never fire your gun unless you are aiming to kill
- Always fire in groups of two shots

What on earth is that book about? Are you not allowed to do warning shots any more?

I think perhaps you should work out whats making you such a target chub. And i have a fair idea of what it is, but i don't think your experiences are typical at all. (Or perhaps real.)

What's the point of a warning shot trog if you don't own a firearm to kill.

And i have a fair idea of what it is,

You really got to explain to me, since I don't say or do ANYTHING in public at all.

The result = I feel safe at all times, end of story.

No you don't - that's why you carry a knife. If you felt safe at all times, you wouldn't carry a knife. What happens when you have to get on an airplane or go to a concert or something where they actually SEARCH you for weapons?

is point 4 "headshots only gg"

I´ve heard of those kinds of things being said for gun safety, but not for gun use. Also chub = hunter sounds likely, does your knife allow for sufficient distance between you and your attacker?

What's the point of a warning shot trog if you don't own a firearm to kill.

Uh... so you don't have to kill someone? Your statement can just get extrapolated back to "what's the point in owning a firearm if you don't shoot people" or "what's the point in waving a knife around unless you get to stab someone".

Most of your points around having a knife has been using it as a deterrent - now you're saying something completely different.

I can throw a knife to within 10m of acurracy at 30cm if that's what you mean.

Most of your points around having a knife has been using it as a deterrent - now you're saying something completely different.

No once I weild a knife, I owned a neutral face and approach at a rapid speed... no times have I had to use it... in one situation I retreated because I was outnumbered.

last edited by CHUB at 17:51:51 18/Jun/07

last edited by CHUB at 17:52:35 18/Jun/07

do you own a lot of camo gear Chub?

No once I weild a knife, I owned a neutral face and approach at a rapid speed... no times have I had to use it... in one situation I retreated because I was outnumbered.

So what you're now saying is when you have used your knife in these situations described where you were attacked, you were actually then moving immediately to an attacking posture and you were going to attack these people with your knife? Because otherwise, why have a knife in the first place if you're not going to stab someone?

Also chub = hunter sounds likely

LOL, please stop this. I can half close to 10 people on QGL confirm my first car was a Sigma and I have only driven Sigma's since... I am not hunter ffs.

I can throw a knife to within 10m of acurracy at 30cm if that's what you mean.

I sure hope you mean you can throw it to within 30cm of accuracty at 10m

I wish I could stab this thread.

So what you're now saying is when you have used your knife in these situations described where you were attacked, you were actually then moving immediately to an attacking posture and you were going to attack these people with your knife? Because otherwise, why have a knife in the first place if you're not going to stab someone?

People sense weakness. People will not attack a strong willed person with a strong weapon, that's my logic and it has worked everytime (bar when outnumbered, even sometimes has worked then). Flicking open a knife and acting like a wimp c***, they would probably disarm you and stab you.

People that attack are not "tough c***s", but contrary are cowards with low self esteeem.

I sure hope you mean you can throw it to within 30cm of accuracty at 10m

Well I clicked edit 5 times and your bodged coding hasn't responded :)

PS: Don't post limit me :(

last edited by CHUB at 17:57:56 18/Jun/07

your continued position changes are making me believe you're just having us all on

Explain?

chub.. you sound socially isolated at the best of times.. carrying a knife/weapon around 'for your protection' prol enforces a perception by others of your anti social behaviour and is the reason your targeted

seriously.. d&d finished back in primary school

move forward into reality

demands pix or lying asap

Lets ban boomerangs!

If only i had the power, i would've banned you, gronk.

demands pix or lying asap

LOL, can tell you've never been in magistrate or district court.

Hey guys I have footage of CHUB as a kid, provoking animals in his farm:

http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~boldajis/images/chase.gif

How did this thread get so big so quick?

Or were there kuns like me asking the same question?

I'm on dialup at my dad parabol :( give my the general gist.

You are being chased by a chicken.

How did this thread get so big so quick?

QGL vs Chub... and I'm going to stab every c*** at next QGL steak meet ;)

by the sounds of ur experiances its not just qgl vs you.. its general society as well..

this should tell you something...

Muhahah :D

I'll be there at the next QGL meet... rain hail or shine.

:)

What on earth is that book about? Are you not allowed to do warning shots any more?

'Vengeance' is the book the movie 'Munich' is based on. It's the story of the group who were commissioned to avenge the deaths of the Israeli olympic team members who were taken hostage and killed in the 1972 Munich Olympic games.

'Vengeance' is the book the movie 'Munich' is based on. It's the story of the group who were commissioned to avenge the deaths of the Israeli olympic team members who were taken hostage and killed in the 1972 Munich Olympic games.

Oh right. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a general guide to living that I somehow missed or something.

Can't believe no one has mentioned the words "Epic" and "thread" yet.

the reason you are being compared to hunter is that your retardedness is on par with his.

ffs needs hermi pic

Does this mean I'm now an e-celeb?????

omg I cannot believe i just read 13 pages of this.. this.. dribble.

I did like the side argument about the car battery though.

No once I weild a knife, I owned a neutral face and approach at a rapid speed... no times have I had to use it... in one situation I retreated because I was outnumbered.

One would wonder if you would of got yourself in such a position to use a knife as a weapon if weren't carrying a knife.

If you can read people like you say you can, then it should be a simple process to identify when a person or persons are heading down that slippery road of assault. You could then apply your excellent reasoning and wisdom and avoid the situation entirely. Thus winning the fight with minimal effort and no need for a weapon.

Then again, if your packing a knife why bother doing that eh :D

How did I read all these posts?

Btw CHUB, I think you are a silly billy for claiming you have been attacked so many times. Any rational person in these circumstances (even if what you say is true) would wisen up and move to the north side. Perhaps you should get several nuclear weapons. They are for self defence too aren't they?

Just because some dangerous weapons are available, that doesn't mean that all should be.

Agreed.


Also, CHUB, how about you stop being an absolute retard so people DON'T attack you, then you won't need a f***ing knife.

You think they're attacking you for your f***ing eye colour?

last edited by Phooks at 00:37:36 19/Jun/07

omg I cannot believe i just read 13 pages of this.. this.. dribble.

ive jump straight to page 13... i guess ill get a coffee and waste the last 2hrs of work catching up on this thread.

Pff noobs, everyone knows you put 100posts/page. :D

I'm on page three.

i bet chub cuts his steak with a katana




last edited by ravn0s at 10:54:06 19/Jun/07

Does this mean I'm now an e-celeb?????

My word, now where's the PIC!

I read the first page and last page of this thread, the jist I get is Chub is the Hunter of this thread.

Someone just dropped their guts as they walked past my cubicle - if only I had my hunting knife on me!

That's a gutsy move.

http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/2066/hermicastrationweb8op.jpg

Also:
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2455/1180253803805smq5.jpg

and

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/8177/startrekspockvskirklj9.jpg
Oh no, fighting on teh interwebs!

parabol, your vid made my day :)

chub = infi?

OK now that I've read the 13 previous epic pages of this thread...

Chub is clearly paranoid and delusional or he's full of s***. Getting attacked 15-20 times? I call bulls*** on that. I walk around Sunnybank late at night (like close to midnight), catch the Beenleigh train line and travel through the city around 5 times a week at around the same times and never have a problem. Chub must be bringing this trouble his way, is delusional or he's making it up. To be seeing this much conflict when walking the streets is a statistical anomoly.

If you get a group of guy surrounding you and threatening you and there's no possibility of escape or help, the best thing to do is to give them what they want. If they want your wallet and phone, just give them your s***. It's not worth dying for. If 5 guys surround you and you pull a knife, they're going to get nervous. And nervous people do stupid things. These guys might just want to scare a wallet out of you, but as soon as you pull that knife you're escalating the encounter. In a panic state there's no telling what they might do.

Your whole masturbatory diatribe about your manly instincts and keen self defence are a load of tripe too. Anybody with any serious defence or martial arts training wouldn't need to carry weapons around to feel safe. Even with my half-arsed martial arts training over the years, I'm confident enough in myself to know that I can handle myself in most 1v1 situations and I could probably make it not worth the trouble for the attackers in a 2v1 situation, but I know that as soon as it's around 3v1, it's not going to matter anymore. At that stage there's more chance of me getting disarmed and having the weapon used on me. As said before, a weapon is only going ot be good as a deterrent. After that, it's just as much a danger to you as it is your attackers.

f*** off back to your bunker and tin foil hat, CHUB. I dread to think what kind of stupid things you might inspire some younger QGLers to do. I think the number of people relating their experiences of being out alone at night and not having problems has provided an ample dose of STFU for you.

Cry much?

Wow nice comeback...

Well this thread has accomplished nothing, I don't feel any need to continue to justify my actions... I was bored last night and found this thread interesting :)

I don't see why everyone is getting so worked up... it's not like I'm going to go home, throw out all my knives and surrender my pistol to the police... it's just a funny thread :)

I don't feel any need to continue to justify my actions...

That's a false statement because A) you haven't justified your actions and B) you can't justify your actions.

We can only hope that you just pull your knife on the wrong person and the problem solves itself.

Well so be it.

Probably wasn't a clever idea coming into this thread, single handedly destroyed my reputation in one thread even though I've been a member of QGL for years :)

Ah well, life goes on, has been fun at least.

CHUB you are officially the dumbest c*** poster weve had in awhile. excellent

Chub ... The new hunter.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/no_rest/chub.jpg

I'm just cut that I didn't get any props for my pics :(

At least if I do encounter CHUB one day I might be able to ask him if he posts on QGL and avoid being stabbed.

lawl pave where do you get this whacky s***

Any rational person in these circumstances (even if what you say is true) would wisen up and move to the north side.

CHUB is a born and bread Deception Bay person (aka a north side person). That's the problem not the solution. He has recently moved to Wynumn.

Do you take your gun with you when you answer the door at home CHUB?

Deception Bay is to the Northside as to what Bulimba is to the Southside

..

That is those suburbs are on the wrong side of the river.

TicMan you're point can't have been made based on distances. As

Bulimba is an inner suburb of Brisbane, Australia. It is 5 km south-east of the CBD.

versus

Deception Bay is a suburb of Caboolture and is located approximately 30km north of Brisbane in the south-eastern corner of the bay of the same name which separates the Redcliffe peninsula and Bribie Island.

Oh wait, reputation..What's Bulimba's like? I can't say I've heard a whole lot about it.

Or did you mean something else?

Also, I heard on Channel 9's news that the shooter only started carry a gun after he was shot last year when that bikie boxing match turned nasty. Sounds almost like somebody we know...
(Also, sorry for actually being on topic-in this thread).

last edited by Triamks at 18:57:43 19/Jun/07

Bulimba is on the opposite side of the river to hamilton, but the houses aren't quite as nice.

Hamilton is old money, bulimba is new money.

Oh wait, reputation

Yeh I did it on reputation and what the suburbs like, Bulimba is too awesome to be on the Southside.

(Also, sorry for actually being on topic-in this thread).

Np, don't let it happen again! :)

I need a pistol so that when random shizzle happens in front of me on suburban BrisVegas (holla back yo da crib) street I can go all Die Hard, Dirtry Harry, Steven Seagal , gleamin' angry white-boi on the mudda furkin evil crackers a$$.

Yo mo gunz fo' bitches plz.

Are you "the hero of melbz-yo" slaps_forehead?

^ I could be if I was packin' iron...