Well Beattie tried all the tricks in the world to make people think he wouldn't call it for September 9 but it is now official.

So who are you going to vote for, and why?

Me, well everyone probably knows by now, I am a Liberal voter for life, but I am more interested in the swingers who don't care.

Probably vote for Peter, he's hopeless...as is the current government....but like f*** i'd trust that Springborg c***, in particular after they backstabbed Bob Quinn

Argh, I hate voting. Yes it's great to help your country and all... However, it takes lots of time and never is worth it in my opinion.

To really vote, you need to research what are the most important issues effecting everybody and yourself. Then you research each parties policy on each issue and then each members view of that policy. But that's assuming you actually want to vote properly.

I have no idea who to vote for this time around... I don't like the idea of the liberals unless they bring more of the federal tax share to QLD. And labour have dropped the ball this time around (health, energex, transport). Things are improving with labour as of late... but with new issues such as the water, I don't know if they can handle it.

It's just a matter of chosing which is the lesser of two evils....

Democracy at it's best when it comes to vote day.. they should change it so that if you don't vote, it automatically defaults to the guy in power as most people are jaded enough to roll upto the voting booth, decide f*** it, what do I care, they are all as corrupt as each other and just vote for the current government.

to be perfectly honest, even though i am a liberal member, i was embarassed by our previous state campaigns, the policies were hopeless, the leaders weak and our candidates incompetent.

this time around i think the coalition has something serious to offer. it just like voting for an opposition anywhere. they can't prove they are good, the government has to screw up so bad that they get thrown out.

i wonder if Beattie has screwed up bad enough this time.

beattie4lyfe

I throw my vote into the green sea.

best put myself on the electoral roll and then go vote for nobody.

As always Greens.

What is so good about the greens? I've never been able to figure that one out. What are their main policies etc.

Basically the greens represent a true left wing option rather than the right vs less right parties. However in the end it's more of a protest vote than anything. The greens specific policies don't matter that much because they simply don't get enough votes in QLD to be a force. However their basic platform is social justice, sustainability, grassroots democracy and peace and non-violence. While overly idealistic it does say to the major parties if you want/need my vote you'll have to build these notions into your policies because I refuse to vote for what you currently stand for.

^^^
Amen brother. Those who are truly liberal vote green.

so how would that be manifested in an actual policy relating to hospitals or roads. i know they have a no new damns policy - how do we get water then.

i will vote against the liberal/national coalition. whether that means a vote for labor or some joke party depends on how i feel on the day. :D

Like Chakas said, when you are in no danger of coming to power you can simply lobby for the things you want. The greens don't need to have a water policy with any substance because they will never have to implement one.

I would imagine they would talk about desalination and recycled water.

I believe recycling and rain water tanks are their main solutions with desalination being preferable to more dams (but only as a very last resort due to the energy it would require). To be honest I haven't paid much attention to state politics lately so I could be wrong.

I vote Arnie as president of the world.

Vote 1 Trog!

instead of stubbornly voting for the same party regardlessly, i always vote for the c*** i hate the least, and in this case its beattie.

sif be assimilated by the springborg

I wonder how things would go for the candidates if they wern't allowed to do any sort of campaigning after an election is called. So hopefully the facters that people will vote with wont be too heavily influenced by a sudden upsurge in political propaganda.
People seem to forget the far past and remember the very recent.

As for who I will vote for, I dunno :/

ill be voting for beattie because at least he is trying to find solutions to the problems. Springborg is nothing but a ney-sayer.

Its a hard vote becuase both major parties in Queensland seem like incompetent f***wits. The childish s*** they pull constantly which ends up on the news is amazing. If I did s*** that wasted that much time at my job id be fired... why shouldnt they. (I know it happens in pretty much all levels of parliment, but it seems especially bad in QLD atm)

Whoever wins, we lose! (Vote one nigel free marijuana)

Peter all the way

I really wish that there was someone else to vote for in Queensland who was less homo than Labour.

Vote 1 Trog!

Damn you Saint.. I specifically came into this political thread to post that, and you've already done it!

I'll be voting for pistol pete again.

indepent ftw! no onecares what they say, but at least its not vote for beattie/borg

if no one cares what they say, why vote for them?

i'm voting liberal (indooroopilly), ronan lee got in by a bee's dick last time so this time around there should essentially be a huge smoking crater where he used to be

labor in this part of town just isnt right

I hate state elections here, mainly because we lack an upper house. I know its probably idealistic but I vote for one of the main powers in lower depending on policies/whats going on at the time and democrats in upper come federal elections.

I'll probably vote anything bar liberal in State if only to not have a gimp as our state leader.

plus ronan lee is a dong.

a libertarian cant vote, the act itself implies authoritarianism...

true lovers don't vote

Yeah, I expected another election to be called.

As for who I will vote - I don't know atm yet either. Prolly Beattie, though the point about voting for the Greens to make the other parties step up a little is an interesting idea.

yer, in queensland you cant really vote for the coalition, because they are so bad

I'm a Labor supporter and from reading the articles in the media it seems as if the Beattie government has gone from one crisis to the next. I did think the parliament would run its full term and hadn't considered the opinion of one writer who suggested they'd have no chance of being re-elected early next year once we're under Level 4 water restrictions - a very good point.

Health has been a huge black hole from which there appears to be no escape. The Dr Death drama coupled with cut backs in services seemed to be unsolveable problems but they've survived. Water... well they can't make it rain and they're taking steps to increase conservation measures. On those two points alone they've at least managed to put forward solutions, whereas the Coalition doesn't seem to be a viable alternative, either leadership or policy wise, at this point in time.

Springborg seems to be a decent enough politician but just not premier material. And Flegg has been in parliament only since the last election and he's hardly set a great example for what the Liberals stand for. Whatever that may be.

So I expect the Labor government to be returned, with a much smaller majority. People like Ronan Lee and others who were elected on the back of Beattie's popularity will probably not make it - I was sure Indooroopilly would return to the Liberals at the last election but he's hung on, so kudos for that, but Labor is on the downhill slide at the moment - Labor's just not on the nose enough to be kicked out of office.

That'll happen in 2010, after Beattie makes way for Anna Bligh.

Liberal. Well at least the one in my area is doing the right thing anyway, the labour person hasn't done anything in forever, or if they have be arsed if they told anyone about it. Should vote for candidate who is going to do best in area, not because of voting habits or voting green because you are trying to prove a point. The only point your proving is that you dont realise that even though 'every vote counts', it doesn't when it goes to the greens in QLD lol.

a libertarian cant vote, the act itself implies authoritarianism...

true lovers don't vote

Nicely done Ross. Your point is air tight. I'm going to draw a penis on my voting form to avoid a fine.

Couldn't they make it September 11 for s***s and giggles?

You should be able to vote either definitively for or against a particular party and it's policies instead of being forced to vote for a lesser of X amount of evils

On a ballot, there should be two columns

1 vote that counts to a positive tally for a particular candidate/party
1 vote that counts to a negative tally for a particular candidate/party

You can vote only one way or the other
All of the positives are tallied up for each party (lets throw a random number in here to demonstrate)

Party A = 35,000 +
Party B = 25,000 +
Party C = 15,000 +

Party A = 28,000 -
Party B = 20,000 -
Party C = 5,000 -

Which would then end up with

Party A = 7,000 Final Count
Party B = 5,000 Final Count
Party C = 10,000 Final Count

Party C in this scenario would wins even though they would never normally have the required votes to win under the current system.

In this way, if you feel that none of the parties currently running coincide with your opinions, then they don't get your vote because you stil have to vote FOR one of them.

This way, your vote and YOUR voice still counts for something and lets the powers that be what the public really think of their concept of "your interests".

That YOU as an individual get to have your voice in policies made by people who generally don't have a clue or actually care about your viewpoint.

As it stands, "Donkey" votes are loved by all canididates as this means that is one less voice speaking out against them who isn't going to give their vote which would then count against them in favour of another candidate.

This method of voting would very quickly identify how a countries constituents trully felt about the people running in the elections policies they force down the populations throat as being "your choice" when it really isn't.


Vote 1 HERMITech for a New World Order!

I'll definately vote springborg cause beattie will never give a green light to day light savings for the south east corner.

Springborg may, I dont know, but its worth a shot.

Vote 1 daylight savings!

but wont they just assume you meant springborg?

HERMITech, u got that idea from watching big brother didnt you!

HERMITech, u got that idea from watching big brother didnt you!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I would keep an eye open when going to bed tonight.

Vote 1 daylight savings!

Move interstate.

Greens 4 lyfe

HERMITech, u got that idea from watching big brother didnt you!

I'd even blunten my knife just so it hurt more
Just for you spook
just for you

If I could leave the world with one parting gift, it would be that all shows like Big Brother were never to see the light of day ever again...


EVER!

Family First party FTW









































not really

I know you guys think springborg is a winger but......

Beattie f***ed health, electricity, water infrastructure......HE CANT DO ANY WORSE.......how exactly could the liberals do ANY WORSE for this dam state........arrrrrrrrrrrg

The current s*** has just come to a head. The problem has been there for a very long time. The damage was done years ago by other people when they just didn't have a clue how the city was going to expand. Noone ever leaves enough room for expansion of considers what the situation maybe a little further down the track.

Beatties now just gonna have to wear it cause he's the current politician.
The Nationals were in power for a very long time in Queenlsand when a lot of this was developed. I suggest you look there for a hint at where to start learning whose to blame (you don't have to stop at the nationals either)

VOTE SOCIALIST!

vote donald duck!

The current s*** has just come to a head.

The problems haven’t just come to a head now, they have reached a point in time where the problems are critical.

The problem has been there for a very long time. The damage was done years ago by other people when they just didn't have a clue how the city was going to expand.

IIRC, with the exception of 1996-1998, the Labour party has been in power since 1989 though to now. That’s 14 out of the last 16 years, with Beattie at the helm for 8 of those. Beattie, Borbidge, Goss and Bjelke-Petersen have all ignored the plights of education and health in this state, and they ignored the warning signs about Queensland’s water shortage since the first warnings more than 20 years ago.

The QLD government has had plenty of warnings they just ignored the problems.

The Nationals were in power for a very long time in Queenlsand when a lot of this was developed. I suggest you look there for a hint at where to start learning whose to blame (you don't have to stop at the nationals either)

Look, I loath the National party and everything they did, but the Labour government has had an almost un-interrupted run for the last 16 years. How long does a government have to be in power before they can be held responsible for the problems.

what typo said hermitech

Beattie has been in power for a long time now.......

What exactly is the problem with health in QLD? The only thing the awesome media covered in any depth was Dr Death. What other problems are there?

ALP is Australian LABOR Party.... not Labour ffs

Are you kidding trog?

Go the the RBH emergency dept and say your dying.




About daylights savings.....No I will not move interstate, QLD should get with the times, everything is backwards here.

Beattie said on the radio he wouldn't put forward daylight savings because his wife will have to get up an hour early to look after the kids. Idiot.

Beattie said on the radio he wouldn't put forward daylight savings because his wife will have to get up an hour early to look after the kids. Idiot

What kids??? I think they've all moved interstate to get away from the BEATIE MONSTER!!!

How long does a government have to be in power before they can be held responsible for the problems.

ahahahahah ahahahahaha ahahahahahahah ahahahahah ahahaha seriously.. you're kidding aren't you? Look at any of John howards policies, look at pretty much well any federal govt chamber debate or question time... regardless of how long a govt has been in power it is never ever their fault for things being the way they are, its always the fault of a previous govt. Always...

Go the the RBH emergency dept and say your dying.

So... people are dying because of insufficient capacity in emergency rooms? What is the data for this?

Please... Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending any of the pocket fillin bastards
If it's not an election issue, no one will ever do anything about it. That's the sad plain truth

Govt's are reactive, not proactive

When looking at the health debate, I think it's also important to look at how much the government exactly can do (without limiting the funds they supply to other industries).

Further - how responsible should the government be for our health as opposed to how much responsibility should be taken by individuals for their own health? Cardio disease is the no. one killer, among a number of other health problems simply related to bad dietary habits and physical inactivity. It just seems a lot of ppl don't take these things into consideration...

What exactly is the problem with health in QLD? The only thing the awesome media covered in any depth was Dr Death. What other problems are there?

ask any mother who has taken their kid to the emergency ward with a broken arm and they will tell you what they think of qld health and what they think of peter beattie.

if you read the quartlerly reports of waiting list data published on qld health's website you will quickly get an insight into why beattie has f***ed qld health.

underfunding is just one half of it though. the qld health public service has become bloated with bureaucrats instead of health professionals and it is highly politicised now when instead it should just be performing operations on people.

and to whoever suggested the seeds of this health crisis were planted in the joh years, i defy you to ask any health employee who has been employed that very question. (i doubt you will find any health employee employed that loing because they all resign regularly due to the ingrained culture of bullying and workload.)

the qld health public service has become bloated with bureaucrats instead of health professionals and it is highly politicised now when instead it should just be performing operations on people.

Fixed for accuracy

*could easily be expanded nationally

Further - how responsible should the government be for our health as opposed to how much responsibility should be taken by individuals for their own health?

All of it for the govt??? Emergency care and on going care in general and the ability for that care to 'be provided' by staff members who are competent, well trained and actually able.. not dog tiredd from working 3days straight or totally out of their scope of practice simply because there was *no-one* else...

if you read the quartlerly reports of waiting list data published on qld health's website you will quickly get an insight into why beattie has f***ed qld health.

Are they referring to emergency waiting lists or elective surgery waiting lists??? Granted there is varying degrees of electivity when it comes to surgery.. but yeah... Money and trying to treat the nursing or doctors as a regular 'union' when dealing with pay disputes is stupid because the flow on effect is going to be a human life...

last edited by Boxhead at 21:33:26 15/Aug/06

thanks hermi XD

irt emergency v. elective, they are all interconnected because if an emergency is not treated in a timely fashion it can soon develop into an elective (or non-elective) operation.

a good example is when Aspen medical took over the caboolture emergency centre for twice the cost it would have taken to staff it via QH internally. I mean what a blatant waste of money.

Why didn't the QHealth execs get of their goddamn asses and recruit some people.

I am an employer of health staff and wwe work our asses off recruting and retaining staff. I know its hard, but I sure as hell don't want contractors near my place.

What exactly is the problem with health in QLD? The only thing the awesome media covered in any depth was Dr Death. What other problems are there?

Recently while I was waiting in the Emergency ward with a friend, we saw a girl who needed to be admitted for the night waiting for 4 hours before she was seen too. A women with severe chest pains for 2 hours. A kid with an obviously broken foot for 6 hours. A girl who was throwing up from an OD was out there for 3 hours.

While I was at Uni I had to get some tests done, I had to wait 11 months for a space to open up for an ultrasound, and a further 2 months for them to process those results and send them to my doctor.

Basically, it’s poorly funded and understaffed.

When looking at the health debate, I think it's also important to look at how much the government exactly can do (without limiting the funds they supply to other industries).

Without public health systems (because private piggy backs on public) and education systems the state would quickly go to s***. Basically, Labour has been ignoring health (and education) for the last 16 years and it wasn’t so fantastic before. It’s time they fix the problem, and stop using lame arse excuses like this to ignore the problems.

Further - how responsible should the government be for our health as opposed to how much responsibility should be taken by individuals for their own health?

People are not blaming the government that they are in poor health, they are blaming the government that the current health systems are not enough to support it’s population.

What exactly is the problem with health in QLD? The only thing the awesome media covered in any depth was Dr Death. What other problems are there?

lots of suspect things were going on earlier this year. waiting list records were being put in airplanes and sent to cabinet meetings so they couldn't be FOI'd, etc.

Only because all the health figures reported to the government where fudged... They took care of that issue when it came up didn't they??

If you don't like the public health service then go private! its deductable ffs.

About a year and a half ago I went to cricket training, and was hit fair in the face by a cricket ball (between the upper jaw and nose).

I went to the emergency room at Ipswich Hospital (training was at redbank) due to the severe swelling around the mouth, copious bleeding and teeth being knocked out of place. Also fear of some sort of concussion as it was a head blow. Anyway I was there from 6pm to midnight, in that time I was given an ice pack by a nurse and that was it, around midnight when my girlfriend asked a nurse how much longer before I would be seen, the nurse said we might as well go home.............

From that lovely experience yes I'd like to think emergency rooms in hospitals are fkd.

If you don't like the public health service then go private! its deductable ffs.

oh yeah don't worry about the billions of dollars the States receive to deliver this service. they can just spend that on something else now. thanks for solving the problem!

if only you had a state senate, then there would be a forum for the smaller parties to be represented..

If you don't like the public health service then go private! its deductable ffs.

My GF's father had a problem where he had to goto emergancy. Being in a private health fund he thought, sweet, will be quick and easy.

Bzzt wrong. The private hospital sent him away with the excuse of full beds, anyway many differnt hospitals later the problem was eventually delt with. Ended up using a public system..

Also, in case your unware, the Public health systems nurses recently got a very decent pay rise, around 25%. That is high enought to pull many nurses away from the Private Hospitals, of which they are doing, alot.

We have a massive short supply of qualified nurses for many reasons. Going to private cover isnt going to change that.

ask any mother who has taken their kid to the emergency ward with a broken arm and they will tell you what they think of qld health and what they think of peter beattie.

hah, what a stupid statement. i asked my mum (who has taken my sister to rbh emergency ward with a broken arm) last night & she said she thinks the qld health system is fine but she is suspicious of peter beatie because he's a politition. :P~

i have used the rbh emergency ward twice in my life, back when the state govt was under the national/liberal coalition & the waiting times were unbelievable!@# not much has changed by the sounds of it.

Liberal. Beattie is a manipulative tool. In some ways he's the perfect politician (not in a good way) because he can take any issue no matter how serious and divert all public attention away from the problems and onto his egotistical self. He's one giant political "look at moi". And the thing that s***s me off the most is most of the f***ing bogans and retarded media in this state fall for it every time.

What do you expect of an 'emergency' room?
To walk in and be patched up and fixed on your way immediately?
An emergency room is treated on a severity comes first basis.
This means if you've just broken your finger, and multiple stab victims, gunshot wounds, rupturing appendicitis, fence palings through the left testicle and coming out the mouth keep coming in while you are waiting, they will be treated before your broken arm.
There might only be one doctor assigned to treating non-immediately life threatening cases.
And even then, there are only so many x-ray machines and radiologists there to operate them.

You can't solve the problem simply by throwing more money at it without causing more problems elsewhere.

A99 is also somewhat correct, if you haven't noticed a big part of the health is actually PREVENTION and education etc.
If people took better care of themselves (Obviously this doesn't relate to just accidents, but we're talking general health - heart attacks and so on) then less stress is placed on the hospital systems.

Prevention is better than a cure.

I had to wait 11 months for a space to open up for an ultrasound,

So, you found out you are actually obese and not pregnant right?

Loki is right and waiting times in emergency rooms aren't just high in Queensland, it's a problem all around the world. Essentially if your life isn't in immediate danger then don't expect to be seen quickly.

LOL Loki

Try telling people who have been in the trauma queue for surgery each day that is of high need for over a week, that are then sent home each day because there are no beds for them after having been to the emergency room and waiting 5 hours + after being brought in on an ambulance that prevention and education are what the health system needs.

My GF had to go through that 6 months ago and talked to many other people during that time on the trauma list and other inpatients who had similar problems/circumstance. Alot of the people we did speak to werent there due to someone not putting a slippery when wet sign up, or leading unhealthy lifestyles they were normal every day people who were the victims of circumstances out of their control.



last edited by Lunch at 18:44:04 16/Aug/06

How dare injured Queenslanders expect to be attended to their painful injuries... what insolence!

shake it off and keep ur chin up, easy

swingers who don't care?? well that's me, so i don't care.. won't be voting.. doesn't matter what happens goverment is still f***ed.

omg sif you wouldn't vote 4 teh greens ftw

LOL Loki

Try telling people.. .Blah blah blah I missed the point of the post and don't know what i'm talking about dot com

If you better educated people to take better care of the their health..... -->

Let's take an example; let's say we could TOTALLY abolish ALL smoking.
Imagine the reduction in stress it would have on the hospital system in X number of years.

If you don't think smoking related diseases take up ALOT of beds, or even just people who haven't taken care of their body, alcohol, drugs, lack of exercise, poor diet and so on then you clearly have never worked in a hospital. Or even been in a position where you actually SEE each wards patient's histories, admission PD and most of all - their charts to see JUST HOW MANY times they come back time and time again for s*** that could have been prevented.

The other big one is the elderly, their generation knew FAR less about their health than THIS generation; as the new current generation takes their place, hopefully better education and understanding of people's own bodies will help eliminate some of the uncessary morbidities we see in hospital beds.
(take smoking for example; look at the steps society is taking now to reduce it, more and more smoking is becomming socially unacceptable compared to our older generation who smoked 10 packs a week, the reduction effect of this on the hospital system won't happen overnight).


Obviously when I talk about prevention and education I'm not talking about genetic defects and unavoidable injuries or diseases.

But yeah, why not just throw more money at the hospitals and employ more staff and buy more technology and take away money from the schools and proper education or the roads and so on and so forth.
Considering would take BILLIONS (maybe even tens of billions?) of dollars thrown at the hospital system to make a big enough dent in the waiting queues all around Australia and it would still only be a bandaid solution.

Another option, and this happens with transplants is a "Well if you f***ed yourself up and it's clearly your fault then down to the bottom of the list with you"...
But then what comes first; a patient who is bleeding to death with a severed brachial artery and is going to die RIGHT THERE AND THEN? Or you who can survive with your broken finger, or your sisters boyfriend's great uncles distant nephew named Goulahg who can survive another 6 months?

When do you start playing God and decide who lives and who dies?

last edited by Loki at 00:09:49 17/Aug/06

Just curious Loki, what part do you play in the medical system? I always see you commenting.

I agree though with everything you said.

I read your post, before you edited it, but even now its so far off the mark its not funny. You obviously havent had to deal with the trauma list or emergency ward from a personal level so you bring up pointless hypotheticals like "if smoking was abolished and transplants for people with broken fingers..." Go and see the same people waiting for extremely important operations day in and day out, watch them go home that afternoon and come back the next day, then wait in the same waiting room as them knowing that they need an operation but at the same time hoping you get the last spot of the day then see if your bs about how its important to not take money away from other areas of society so its fine as is.

The public health system is under funded and there are major problems with it not just at a funding level but at an operational and staffing levels too, the general public are well aware of it and thats why it's being spouted by Beattie as his main election platform at the present time.

Still doesn't make his points invalid... I don't know WHY smoking is still legal.

The majority of the population pretty much abuse there bodies, and it really sucks when you get a legit problem and you have to wait because there's so many people in front of you, that put themselves there.

your'e a f***head chubb

don't know WHY smoking is still legal

Just to get you started with the list then.

1. People who smoke vote, so it would be political suicide.
2. Tobacco lobbies direct large amounts of money into various areas of society

I read your post, before you edited it, but even now its so far off the mark its not funny... etc

Oh it's definately underfunded and staffing is a bit of a supply & demand issue as well, you have a greater demand for health professionals than is currently in the cookie jar to pick from, this is also attributable to insurance protection premiums for private operators being driven out of practice, and also dissatisfaction with wages:workload ratio.

But basically, you are crying out for insane numbers of dollars in the tens to hundreds of billions of dollars to 'fix' the problem temporarily that can be better effectively managed by reducing the incidences of people requiring hospitalisation needlessly.

So yes, more funding is needed at the moment to IMPROVE the situation and lift it off the floor, but it will never be enough to rectify the problem to an extent that is supposedly "acceptable".

Prioritised queues will always be long.
And they'll be even longer with people who need treatment who put themselves there.

Why is it that out of the ~20 million or so Australians, we are presented with an election where we are forced into a situation of "Bad, or worse". Why can't there ever be someone that people actually want to vote for?

As a result of the funding hassles, waiting lists etc Accident and emergency rooms are a wee bit silly.. there is always going to be cases where people with sore heads and stuff are sent home with a panadol when they're meant to be having a fricking brain operation. It is the nature of the beast, people will always have accidents... what makes it better is they're often unexpected, since you can't plan to hurt yourself you can't ring the hospital beforehand etc.. :p

As for the turning away of people from getting surgery, the ethos of the public system is quite different in surgery terms, being a teaching institute in most if not all cases they work off a 'if its not on by 6pm its not going on' and they prioritise accordingly. Private system, they'll cut and hack and slash until they get through their list. What happens? Private theatres get through 13 or 14 patients (depending on the type of surgery) per day and public would manage 6-8 at the most taking into consideration the time factors. Over 10 or 15 theatres thats 50-100 people who miss out on their surgery... a day.. Since all the lists are always unrealistically full its a flow on effect, they'll try to catch up the ones missed next time but more have to be bumped etc etc

ps lol who'd want to really do public practice anyway.. i mean really.. after you've doone your time private practice seems the win for every surgeon i've ever talked to.

last edited by Boxhead at 07:50:57 17/Aug/06

Go and see the same people waiting for extremely important operations day in and day out, watch them go home that afternoon and come back the next day, then wait in the same waiting room as them knowing that they need an operation but at the same time hoping you get the last spot of the day then see if your bs about how its important to not take money away from other areas of society so its fine as is.

You are right on the money here Lunch. The first point is I do not agree with a free health system, because it well knownh that a free resource is used inefficiently, so from an economic point of view we are actualy throwing money down the drain and worsening our society's health situation as a resault because the people who could have had urgent operations missed out on places to the pensioners who wanted to make their third visit to hospital for the week for a check up. If patients were required to make small co-payments then the economidc decision about whethere they need this decision becomes clearer.

Secondly, if you are going to run a waiting list can you do it competently? Well Beattie sure can't as stories of delayed operations even as the patient is prepped for surgery are a frequent occurrence.

And all that BS about prohibiting smoking etc, well that would happen in a perfect world but smokers vote (15-20%) of the population, so that is one f***en large chunk of voters to be f***ing with. While we are at it, should we ban driving too? Should we ban family living (due to domestic violence). Should everyone just live in individual bubbles, like in the Matrix, and exchange semen via tubes for our ongoing survival.

Emergency ward and public health is basically about patching up poor bogans who cannot afford private health care until the next time they f*** themselves up. But the Qld Govt is literally being paid around $2 billion/year to deliver this service. I think they have made a right joke of the system.

http://www.health.gov.au/internet/wcms/publishing.nsf/Content/health-ahca-agreement.htm/$FILE/queensland.pdf (Qld funding agreement)

http://www.health.gov.au/internet/wcms/publishing.nsf/Content/323B52962CD87674CA257199007FA144/$File/facts%20QLD.pdf (fact sheet on Qld performance)

Note importantly that Qld ranks the last state in Australia in terms of per capita expernsiture on health. This is the biggest disgrace of all.

Got anymore incorrect info Astroboy...

Seriously - we're friends. We've only ever been friends, so quit it.

Why is it that out of the ~20 million or so Australians, we are presented with an election where we are forced into a situation of "Bad, or worse". Why can't there ever be someone that people actually want to vote for?

Basically its because politics is a s*** of a job and they are not paid very well for the demand it has on their public and personal lives.

Most of my friends who are politicians have no life. Why would a high paid executive quit his/her job away from the nagging masses where they actually call the shots and don't have to kiss ass to a handful of senators. Many older politicians suffered from brokoen marriages, over eating, over drinking, lack of exercise, stress, stalkers. It really isn't as glamorous as you think it is.

So that leaves the people who thrive on power instead of money (or who are talentless union/political staffer hacks). In any case this second type are not the sharpest tools in the shed and there you have the Australian system of Government.

last edited by infi at 08:21:29 17/Aug/06

Seriously - we're friends. We've only ever been friends, so quit it.

bait taken

your'e a f***head chubb

Well if you're a smoker, the jokes on you... happy early death.

Just to get you started with the list then.

1. People who smoke vote, so it would be political suicide.
2. Tobacco lobbies direct large amounts of money into various areas of society

Like I give a s***? Health IS the most important aspect of life, simple as that... so those 2 reasons fly STRAIGHT over my head... anybody give me a REAL reason? I hate the old "well Ciggies bring in a lot of tax argument", it's pretty well respected opinion of the majority of medical practioners, that smoking COSTS the government more money then it brings in taxes.

ps lol who'd want to really do public practice anyway.. i mean really.. after you've doone your time private practice seems the win for every surgeon i've ever talked to.

It's called not being a money grabbing whore and wanting to help the community? That's why people become medical practioners right?

While we are at it, should we ban driving too? Should we ban family living (due to domestic violence). Should everyone just live in individual bubbles, like in the Matrix, and exchange semen via tubes for our ongoing survival.

You fail... unrealistic analogies don't help your cause.

Smokers have to pay higher health insurance premiums, yeh?

Is it unfair to expect that smokers shouldn't get the same level of priority for health care in the public system (FOR SMOKING RELATED ILLNESSES) as non-smokers?

CHUBB your'e the type of f***head who ruins life for the rest of us. You have your head so far up your own conceited ass your vision is clouded by poo.

People have a right to do whatever the f*** they like with their own bodies. Any law that steps in to stop that is an invasion of freedom. Its not a tricky concept even for your brain of diminished capacity.

No other arguement needs to be made but I will say this. If smokers are causing a problem in the public health system then people have a social responsibility not to smoke. It is not right for anyone to take away their ability to do it.

I hope you fall on a spike and die you f***ing facist!

People have a right to do whatever the f*** they like with their own bodies. Any law that steps in to stop that is an invasion of freedom. Its not a tricky concept even for your brain of diminished capacity.

Well somebody stop the presses and give everybody there right to use recreational drugs... if you don't agree with this, your whole point goes out the window.

Is it unfair to expect that smokers shouldn't get the same level of priority for health care in the public system (FOR SMOKING RELATED ILLNESSES) as non-smokers?

A few surgeons have actually been refusing smokers... they tell them to STOP smoking, then they're back in 6 months still choofing a pack a day.

I don't care if people smoke, just don't smoke near ANYONE, and don't use the public health system when you get health problems at 40.

Smokers have to pay higher health insurance premiums, yeh?

health insurance - no.

life insurance - double.

My point still stands! CHUBB You are a f***ing disgrace of the human race. Any law that protects people from themselves is f***ing dumb. History shows prohibition never works. Post a photo of yourself so I can say you really are as dumb as you look.

Oh btw here is your respected majority of opinion... f***head

http://tobacco.health.usyd.edu.au/site/supersite/resources/pdfs/64m.pdf#search=%22smoking%20figures%20australia%22

You fail... unrealistic analogies don't help your cause.

they are perfectly valid analogies. any lifestyle behaviour has a relative risk associated with it. that is why concreters and roof tilers cannot get life insurance. what if you hurt yourself rock climbing, you chose to go rock climbing (or touch footy or any recreational pastime) and thus knowingly put a potential pressure on the qld health system. should you be denied?

the choices we make dictate the doors that will open and close in life. as the "yes minister" episode once proposed: a hospital would be VERY efficient if it didn't have any sick people.

I was never for prohibition... I just think smoking is the most useless f***ing thing on this earth and the public health system should have a right to refuse them (smokers). So if people are still obliged to help them, YES it should be illegal because all it's doing is causing a f***load of problems with NO (cmon give me one) positive.

If people smoked AWAY from everyone and paid for all there own healthcare... fine. Otherwise, put down the bloody fag, realise you're killing your body and taking away valuable hospital space for people that didn't put themselves there.

Nothing wrong with dangerous activities... you CAN do them safely. Smoking you can not, it is always causing damage.

As for that study, if I could give a s*** I could hunt out them out... just look for yourself.

Way to go CHUB: "I'm right..... cos I am. Actually go an research that I am right cos I cbf."

If you begin to deny people access to universal free health care on the grounds of their legal lifestyle choices, you are treading on dangerous ground. If smoking was illegal I would agree with you 100%.

This is not really the issue though: our hospitals are not even receiving adequate funding per capita. We have the lowest per capita funding rate in Australia.

The Beattie government isn't spending tax payer funds on the right issues. They build fancy pedestrian bridges and super stadiums instead.

Way to go CHUB: "I'm right..... cos I am. Actually go an research that I am right cos I cbf."

Well I have no idea where he pulled that from, but I've done multiple assignments on the topic and there's a VAST amount of information out there... it's a thread on QGL, I don't think anybody is taking it seriously, I'm just creating a fuss because I need something to do while I drink my shake.

If you begin to deny people access to universal free health care on the grounds of their legal lifestyle choices, you are treading on dangerous ground. If smoking was illegal I would agree with you 100%.

That's the problem, so that is WHY I said it has to be made illegal. There are a few surgeons though now that ARE refusing smokers (note: not ex-smoker), and good on them.

Meh, we're not getting anywhere :) I got private health, so it doesn't really affect me. I feel sorry for smokers, because they're going to get to 40/50 and realise they're f***ed there bodies up beyond repair... and for what?

I'm out.

Hahahahaha your'e not against prohibition but it should be illegal? Hahahahaha

From ABS report if someone starts smoking at 20 at an average of 6 packs/week at $10/pack = $3120/year in sales 80% of which is tax so govt profit is $2496pa. If the average smoker smokes for 40 years (wasn't in the report just guessing) thats $99840 in extra tax given in their lifetime. If you add on top of that the decade and a half of pension and other medical expenses the government would spend on that person you would have to be a f***n joker like chubb to think its a drain.

SIX PACKS A WEEK?! Is that average?

Meanwhile chubb gets to 50 and realises he hasn't lived a day in his life. You know all these issues you have with control stem from daddy touching you or daddy not touching you when you wanted him to. Which is it?

Contrary to popular belief every smoke isn't doing you damage. It's hard with so much anti smoking propaganda out there to get a clear idea of what the risks actually are but like with everything moderation is the key. Most studies show that 1 - 2 smokes a day show's no discernable difference in risk of death ratio's. Mind you there isn't many smokers who could stick to 1 or 2 a day and a few studies mention this :)

Hahahahaha your'e not against prohibition but it should be illegal? Hahahahaha

I don't know how long you've been here... but you should realise I'm the biggest drug advocate on this board.

$99k isn't much in health terms... do you have any idea how much medical care REALLY costs the government? Do you know how much it costs to book multiple surgeons, anesthesiologist, nurses... to stay in a hospital bed. You're also forgetting continuos drain on the GP's office for 4 decades due to smoking related illnesses. At 6 packs a week, 40 years, you are going to be lucky to even be alive. This whole discussion though was based around smokers taking beds from people...

Thay would be interesting to find out: for people who have been smoking more than 10 years, what is the daily consumption breakdown.

shhh trog! I was lying to make a point!

Its 1.5 packs/week :)

What's your background in health Ross?

EDIT: Btw, I know surgeons personally that can earn upto $9k a day... 1/10th of your 40 year habit.

last edited by CHUB at 11:13:23 17/Aug/06

How much does a pack of smokes cost?

actually lying again, wrong country aus is 3.3 packs/week

A 30 pack is $11.50 and that stat should be stated in sticks because packs vary in size ^_^

I have been a paramedic for 4 years, trauma for 3. Im now a neurological surgeon at the RBH.

infi it says the amount in smokes, i put it in packs to put a $ on it easier. Avg aussie smoeks 3667 smokes/year

I have been a paramedic for 4 years, trauma for 3. Im now a neurological surgeon at the RBH.

Uhh please excuse my s***ty understanding of the medical system... but how do you go from being a paramedic to being a surgeon?

See as though the way I'm going through it going to take me 8 years of study, 2 years in a hospital, 3 years basic surgical training and 5 - 6 years of specialisation.

I'm curious, that way seems better.

f*** THEY LET PEOPLE AS STUPID AS YOU BE DOCTORS!!! WE ARE ALL f***ED

It's quite simple... get your GPA, do your GAMSAT, have an interview. If I'm fit to be a doctor, they'll let me in... I'm sure they're a better judge then some random on QGL.

I'm still finishing my undergraduate degree though, but with a solid 5.9 things are looking good :D

Still curious as to how you became a neurosurgeon after being a paramedic for 4 - 7 years :)

On the internet, you're whatever you want to be

LOL, you're a toss Ross... does it feel cool pretending to be a surgeon?

I'm out now, you've made my day :)

I am Ross Slayer of injustice/neurosurgeon. I get +10 awesome and -5 Chubb is gay

ur credibility is going all downhill from here. sometimes silence is better than that noise ^^^

infi i don't know if you read the title of the webpage but I think it says QGL..

seriously though, chubb i reckon you really need re-evaluate some things if you are going to discriminate between your patients...

Don't worry about me, just give up the gaspers :)

beatie is a tosser but i'll probably vote for him because the other guy is a tosser as well. IMO All in all the health system and the water system would still be in crisis regardless of which unlucky son'of'a bitch was in the premier's hot seat at the time.

Me! I've never touched a ciggarette in my life for the past 4 weeks!

It's called not being a money grabbing whore and wanting to help the community? That's why people become medical practioners right?

Lol and accountants do accountancy so they can ensure EVERYONE gets all the tax they deserve because they're serving the community.. Lawyers are out there only to make sure all great injustices in the world are stopped and so on...

Wow Ross, you're a complete f***** hahaha

Lol and accountants do accountancy so they can ensure EVERYONE gets all the tax they deserve because they're serving the community.. Lawyers are out there only to make sure all great injustices in the world are stopped and so on...

Contrary to what people think, if they're looking for money medicine is probably the worst road to go... even then, you earn every single cent of it. I would wager the majority of medical practioners are there because they want to help people, but got fed up with the public system and pissed off to private later on.

Studying something like Engineering (nothing else pops to mind) would probably pay off better :)

So who are you going to vote for, and why?

To get back on topic, why did most people feel the need to say that they were voting for the leader of the parties, when (more then likely) you are not in the electorate that they are standing for? This is exactly the Beattie strategy that he has got the media and the public to believe, that it is a 'one man' team and this election is about a populous vote.

Vote for the compentencies of your local members, most have pamphlets of what they stand for on their local and 'major' issues, at least read that to compare and give yourself a slight insight.

As for me, I AM Brisbane Central electorate, and i will NOT be voting for Beattie. In fact I feel like registering my name and voting for myself. (and I will be listing the rest of my votes out, so it will still count!)

For the record: some of the water issues (ie scrapping of two dams) were dealt with in the Goss government of which beattie was on the committee - search the hansards if you will. Other then the fact that he is completly incompetent, I would prefer someone that actually does not play the media like puppets for the politically mindless QLDs out there. Of course if the media was just actually doing their job properly this manipulation would not occur.

Of course if the media was just actually doing their job properly this manipulation would not occur.

That'll never get fixed, because the media's goals are totally at odds with what would actually be useful reporting to the people. As long as the unwashed masses get their political insights from the 6pm news and the Sunday Mail, we're doomed.

I heart the sunday mail.... don't think I've ever looked outside the sport section but I won't stand for the badmouthing of such a quality publication.

the sunday mail is a turd of a paper.

To get back on topic, why did most people feel the need to say that they were voting for the leader of the parties, when (more then likely) you are not in the electorate that they are standing for? This is exactly the Beattie strategy that he has got the media and the public to believe, that it is a 'one man' team and this election is about a populous vote.

To me it's because Queensland (with its lack of a senate) makes voting based on party policy as oppposed to individual members more important than federal elections. If concience voting occured in the house more often it would be less of an issue but it hardly ever seems to happen, unless it does and the public just arent made aware of it? :/

Parliament would not function without parties. You would end up with the NZ system where every crackpot has their own party and a mishmash of crazies, led by the labor party end up running the circus.

Parliament would not function without parties. You would end up with the NZ system where every crackpot has their own party and a mishmash of crazies, led by the labor party end up running the circus.

Well alot of European countries have this outcome and it seems to be fine, maybe even producing more moderate legislation.

And strictly economically speaking competition does not begin until there are at least three competitors in the market. The US's political choice is ratf***ed now, cos it is now two party dominated. Vote for a 'Giant Douche' or a 'Turd Sandwich' as southpark would say... so I hardly think a parliment functions more "properly" just cos it has parties!? The "two party choice" may run smoothly (ie no dissent) but that hardly means greater political discussion and outcomes.