Personally I think little Johnny, energy retard, Prime Minister is just using the LPG subsidy to stop us from voting his crusty arse out of the top job. Or he just doesnt have the balls to take on Big Oil?

Pro's

* Big Aussie V6 and 4wd owners can keep their petrol guzzlers a few more yrs.
* Slightly better for the environment.
* Autogas is available at most Stations.
* $2000 will cover most? of the conversion costs.
* LPG is cheaper than petrol.
* LPG currently has no fuel excise.


Con's

* Not all cars can have LPG fitted.
* Gas fitters are gonna be booked out for months!
* LPG is a byproduct of Oil distillation. Therefore Australia will still be importing foreign oil.
* Environmental benefits are negligible.
* You will require a LPG specialist for repairs to the gas components.
* You lose bootspace.
* LPG is cheaper but you get less klms per litre.
* The goverment will f*** you in the arse in 5 yrs when they introduce a fuel excise on LPG.


Then you have ethanol.

* All non-performance cars run on E10 no probs. Maybe even E20 on modern vehicles (2002+). This requires no modification or cost.
* $400 coversion kit required to run E85 & E100.
* E85 wont freeze in sub-zero temperatures. E100, however, will.
* Ethanol has very good enviromental benefits. It is almost Carbon Neutral.
* You dont lose bootspace.
* Farmers are happy because they have a steady market to sell bio-waste or sugarcane/corn/canola.
* Australia is better off because we have a stable domestic fuel source.
* E10 is a few cents cheaper per litre.
* E85 is estimated to cost 99 cents a litre.
* There is a marginal loss of power and economy with ethanol.

Oil companies dont want to provide ethanol E10+ at service stations because they wont make as much money even though they have made record profits last yr. They lobby the government to suppress ethanol. Meanwhile other countries Brazil/USA/Europe are advancing rapidly with Bio-Fuels.

Discuss ~

oh hey, its another slaps_forehead thread.

lpg is s***, drive an lpg powered car for a day. lpg run like s***, cars backfire and stall and all sorts of s***.

I say we all run around in cars with little nucular reactors then we'll never have to refuel again, not at least for a few thousand years.

lpg is s***, drive an lpg powered car for a day. lpg run like s***, cars backfire and stall and all sorts of s***.

Sounds like your typical day at the track for the are32 :p

excise on home-brewed biodiesel is another genius effort by the government

Gas fitters are gonna be booked out for months!

Heard on the radio tonight, a fair number of fitters are already booked out to the end of the year.

i have not seen ethanol fuels for cheaper than normal unleaded.

and im not tlaking about the shell optimax extreme ethanol either, thats 100 octane so they charge an extra bazillion dollars for it, but the ethanol blend at BPs is the same price and at times more expensive than normal unleaded. go figure.

Sounds like your typical day at the track for the are32 :p

thats just me getting out of my driveway :)

I had an LPG commodore. Personally. LPG ain't worth it. For one u lose heaps of power and get really bad fuel economey. At least 3-5 litres more then petrol. Plus i found i was only getting 300-350 kms out of a tank of LPG at a cost of $30-$35 and was filling up around twice a week. So i was still using roughly $60 a week in fuel.
Got rid of it anf bought a 1999 diesel Pajero 4wd. 10 litres per 100km around town (what a fuel guzzler!) and highway. Couldn't be happier! :)
Edit:- I get around 800-900kms from a tank of my fuel guzzling 4wd...


last edited by Boofe at 07:50:15 15/Aug/06

And if no-one likes it, it's yours.

And no-one likes it.

Suffer troll.

heh nah it's still your problem fpot

Petrol > Diesel > LPG .. thats how it goes. LPG is the s*** of s*** for performance and as other people have posted it ends up using more L per 100km thna petrol would.

I'm in the process of looking at a new car and it's a tough choice. I want something that can kick up a stink and move but I'm also mindful of fuel costs so the choice of cars is very limiting unless you start to move into the $80-120k price range which just ain't going to happen for me.

On the topic of sigs, I agree with fpot.

Mr Taxi comes to save the day!

My own personal car is an LPG Ford Falcon. It doesn't run s***. It doesn't backfire.

Yes, you do lose a bit of power, BUT you gain torque.

...power output of the LPG Falcon is 143kw with 362Nm of torque versus the petrol car's 157kw 357Nm torque. In fact, the higher octane of the LPG results in slightly higher torque...

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0103/S00097.htm

The truth about LPGas.

That is the same car as I drive, except mine is a dual fuel tickford system with a Vialle converter.

I say that there will be a lot of people who will convert to gas, find out they are idiots and don't know how to handle it, and f*** their cars and never go back to gas again.

I say that there are too many horror stories / myths about LPG for more than a small porportion of the public to take up LPG.

I run LPG. Its the only way i can have a motor as large as i like, with the ability to flog it as much as i like without having to worry about fuel economy.

That said, I would not run LPG if i did not have the fleet background and first hand experience with dealing with LPG.



It is difficult, dangerous, weighty, not suited to most cars, expensive to install and sap on your boot space.

I would not recommend LPG to anyone who didn't have a Falcon or Commodore.

Oh and btw it is 22L/100klms for me
Yes you do go through more gas than petrol. About 20-30% more. And yes it is slower 0-100kmh.

Real world perspective on LPG - From Mongie, who has been driving a s***box with LPG for the last 3+ years.


First Observation...
LPG takes for-f***ing-ever to fill. It is usual for someone filling petrol to arrive, get out of their car, go put fuel in, pay, and leave all while i'm putting 15-20 dollars of gas in.

Second Observation...
It smells. The public won't like this. For one, when you fill the car, on releasing the trigger you get a discharge of LPG on your hands... But a lot of the time, I also find that the nozzle won't screw in properly the first time, and it sprays all over my hands when I go to squeeze the trigger.

I should mention, that the above doesn't really phase me too much, I don't see it being viable for the general public, as its a bit more complicated than straight petrol, and you have to be able to figure out whats going on without everything going perfectly smoothly. A skill I find a lot of people lack.

last edited by mongie at 10:10:44 15/Aug/06

QFT Mongie

Wiser words have NEVER been spoken.

Okay okay, fair enough, I can just disable sigs to get rid of it no problem.

But don't you look at it yourself and think "why do I have a s***ty, overbright cliched, gamearena borne sig that dwarfs my pathetic attempts at posts by a factor of at least literally 50". Look at the tiny block of text that you type, and then compare it to the size of the sig. Can't you recognise the stupidity?


heh nah it's still your problem fpot
And if he didn't drive a 4wd? :P

Stfu fpot ya tossa.

Mr Taxi comes to save the day!

My own personal car is an LPG Ford Falcon. It doesn't run s***. It doesn't backfire.

Yes, you do lose a bit of power, BUT you gain torque.

Ex-Taxi here as well on LPG. Can't say I've ever had any problems with backfiring or anything like that either and I've have the car for 7yrs now. As you mentioned you do loose a bit of power but imo cost saving more than makes up for it. I can generally make it a fair distance in my car before filling up, longest I've gone was from the outskirts of Melbourne to the outskirts of Sydney on 1 tank, needless to say I was practically running on empty after that.

Wow nailbomb, what is it? an ED?

EF

It smells.

the smell is added to gas so you can tell if it is leaking. just like the colour is added to difference kinds of petrol for easier identification.

But it is the smell of burnt gas isn't it?

The thing that gets me is the excise in a couple years.

Big thumbs down... it'll be unleaded fuel all over again. I won't be converting. There are better choices then LPG and cheaper. Biofuels aren't really any better... using vasts amounts of land to grow food to use in cars...

I can't say what the ultimate solution is as everything has it's side effects (eletric cars need power to be charged with and we can't even keep up with aircons in summer etc...) but hopefully something will come to light without major hassles (eg. war, major economic loss).

People should just start burying dead insects and stuff in the ground now and wait for about 100 million years+ when it all turn to oil == profit.

Speaking of LPG and taxi's, this happened to a taxi this morning in Melbourne. Cause of the fire is still unknown.

why the f*** would you want to drive an ex-taxi?

There's 100 reasons.

I love my ex-cab. It's great.

Auto. Air. Steer. Remote Central Locking. Electric Windows. Electric Mirrors. CD-Player with Steeringwheel control. Dual Airbags. ABS Brakes. Cruise Control. Plenty of Power for a normal car.

$5000 on the gas, interior detailed and painted back to it's original colour.

How can you lose.

why the f*** would you want to drive an ex-taxi?

In my case, I use to work in a taxi yard in my mid teenage years so I knew which taxi ran well and which ones were s*** (most of them get thrashed to hell and aren't worth buying at all no matter what the price). So since I worked there, I got my hands on one of the good ones and got it pretty cheap as well. I've only had 2 problems with mine in the entire 7yrs I've had it, one was needing to get the harmonic balancer replaced and the other was needing to get a new sylinoid (sp?) valve. Had I not been working in the taxi yard, I would never have bought one though I probably still would have looked for a car running on LPG.

last edited by Nailbomb at 15:40:33 15/Aug/06

By the fact that it has literally been to the moon several times? :)

Nah, if they have serviced it and s*** I am sure that doesn't matter.

you know nailbomb, thats almost identical to my story.

cept it was 7 weeks ago not 7 years ago.

Which yard did you work for?

Which yard did you work for?

Keeping in mind i live in Melbourne, it was a yard called Savid Taxi's in Moorabbin.

solenoid, just fyi

For the LPG owners ... Does it reduce your top speed ? or is it just slowwer getting there ?

What happens if you put the LPG car on a treadmill?

Umm i don't believe it would limit my top speed, not by much anyway.
Would it take longer to get there? Yes. Not by much though.

0-100kmh times for petrol vs gas (on a standard factory falcon) would be like 9 seconds petrol, 9.5 seconds gas.

Also, my falcon is 6 yrs old and has done 594,000.
It has a new automatic, new diff, new suspension all round.

Everything (driveline wise) has been replaced in the car except for the block itself and the tailshaft.

Ford Falcon blocks are good for about 1,100,000klms on gas, but 800,000 on petrol.

I could give a rat's about top speed or 0-100 myself, in fact I spend money so my car can go _slower_

I spend money so my car can go _slower

You getting rock crawler gears Jim?

yeah I already got them
they are aaaaaaaaaaaawesome
flat out doing 20kph in 5th gear now :)

What are they, like 20.0:1???

I thought my 4.11:1 in my corolla was good - like 3500rpm in 5th at 100kmh

they're 3.743:1 which is an 85% reduction over the stock low range gear

Besides rock crawling what other benefits are there for the rock crawler gears Jim?

P.S. How much did they set you back?

well for my puny 4 banger diesel which relies way too much on it's turbo, there's a massive benefit for me because it means I can now slowly and carefully do hillclimbs instead of having to use momentum and keep my rpm up around 1000 to avoid stalling :)

or in a nutshell, it means there's much less chance that I'll tip the bastard on it's side now :P

cost about 1600 all up

last edited by Jim at 17:46:09 15/Aug/06

so who's the rebate through..? ATO?

f*** i hope not, more headache for me....

Yeah i have the same problem as you Jim. Need momentum! lol
Who can u recommend for the crawler gears?

I bought the gearmaster ones from marks, the pajero page is here: http://www.marks4wd.com/Mitsubishi-extra-low-tc-gears.htm

try ontrack or tjm coopers plains for a price on fitting them unless you wanna have a bash at it yourself. my transfer case and selector fork needed to be ground back a bit to accomodate the larger reduction gear, no idea what's involved with a paj

also try the rockhopper brand, you might be able to find something lower than the marks 48% reduction

last edited by Jim at 18:25:36 15/Aug/06

my torry was on lpg. loved it. most of the time cars are tunned for dual fuel. so you compromise both.

with lpg you can get higher compression than petrol, with less heat. my fuel accon was better than with petrol too.

^ Everyone uses diesel in the 'Old Dart' dont they moobs?

Not that I disagree but what, besides towing stuff, would the extra torque be useful for? Say I don't tow anything, ever, and the only person in the car is me and the car only goes from home to work and back again, would LPG be worth it? (commodore wagon, boot space? PLENTY of it :) ).

I bought a 94' Falcon ED for $3500 on LPG.
only 120,000kms and about 5,000kms into ownership it blew the headgasket, radiator and waterpump. No worries, Replaced all that myself and she runs beautifully.
Tows bikes and boats regularly and i goto work with it.

Jim is just looking to roll his car in slow motion.

. I want something that can kick up a stink and move but I'm also mindful of fuel costs so the choice of cars is very limiting unless you start to move into the $80-120k price range which just ain't going to happen for me.

Hahahahahaha.
Economy and power are inversely proportional.
To get more power you need more fuel.

So basically, you're looking for something that doesn't exist. GG.

I don't reckon that's necessarily true, otherwise the only difference between two engines that produce different amounts of power would be how much fuel they burn.

a lot of more expensive cars employ better and more expensive technology to make more efficient use of the fuel they burn.

also, the way he worded that sentence was 'want something that can kick up a stink and move', not 'something that produces more raw power'. imagine a car made from the cheapest s***ty metals available and how much it'd weigh, and compare it to a car made from more expensive, lighter materials but with the same engine. clearly, there are more options available in the 'kick up a stink and move' department the more money you have to spend - and it doesn't mean you will be burning more fuel than some cheaper cars that go ok.

I don't reckon that's necessarily true, otherwise the only difference between two engines that produce different amounts of power would be how much fuel they burn.

For instance a normal diesel turbo engine VS a common rail diesel turbo engine.

Fuel economy and power differ heaps.

So basically, you're looking for something that doesn't exist. GG

lets see, foot to the floor or accelerator slightly depressed... wow it exists!

lets see, foot to the floor or accelerator slightly depressed... wow it exists!

Hahah sarcasm at it's best!

I recently sold a lpg falcon id had for three years. Was cheap to run but once LPG hit 40c it became no cheaper than driving on petrol.

Really?

I do 16L/100klms on petrol in my falcon, @ $1.25L = $20/100klms
I do 22L/100klms on Gas in my falcon, @ 52c/L = $11.44

SORRY I THINK GAS IS CHEAPER

he's talkin about his car, you're talking about yours :)

There is more then just petrol costs in running a car.

Does servicing increase on LPG ?

eg. a 4cylinder small car is what a minor service ever 30000kms and a major at 100,000 ?

a 4wd is a minor at 15000kms, majors at 30,000kms.

Turbos double your intervals ?

What do you describe as a major/minor service?

All cars should have oil and oil filter done every 10,000klms at most.
All cars should have air filter done every 20,000klms at most.
Plugs, leads, fuel filter and brake pads at around abouts 40,000klms depending on the car.

You get slightly shorter life out of plugs and leads in a gas car.
Only very slight though.
That is about the only difference.

Sorry Mr Hardware you are full of s***. Vehicle manufatures have their own programmed maintenance schedules (Log book servicing), why waste money doing it more often or more "complete" then it needs ?

ie. mine says 15000 for basic oil and crap, or 7.5 is it used heavily off road in dusty muddy or snowwy conditions.

I got my brake pads in my last car done at 70,000k's becuase thats when they were needed.

My current tyres have less then 1/8th wear after nearly 30,000 k's .... next you'll be telling me I should get them replaced at 40 or 50 thousand ...

As for your comment about major vs. minor... most places offer those 2 exact service offerings, and while the all differ slightly in their exact services offered (or if you ring and say how much for a minor service they give you a price)... They all are similar and have similar prices.
eg.
http://www.ktas.com.au/productsServices/servicePackages.htm
http://www.midas.com.au/index.php?new_page_id=9 (oh noes they call it service plus and comprehensive service)

Sorry Mr Hardware you are full of s***. Vehicle manufatures have their own programmed maintenance schedules (Log book servicing), why waste money doing it more often or more "complete" then it needs ?

ie. mine says 15000 for basic oil and crap

Yes manufactures do have different servicing schedules. Why do you think this is? Do you think they do it to benefit the consumer? Pfft im sad to say no!
As oil ages it becomes very thin. Almost like water. Servicing every 15000 km's starts putting lots of strain on internal engine parts such as the crack and big end bearings etc. as the oil is no longer thick it runs off these parts qucikly thus causing wear.
Now why do you think spare parts cost a s***load? Because they make more money out of spare parts then manufacturing a new car. So how do they maximise this? They make servicing intervals longer thus creating more wear and tear on the car and components and therefore in the long run creating a lucrative bussiness in spare parts replacements.
Using a synthetic oil to a mineral based oil does nothing to lengthen the servicing intervals. Turbo cars should probably be done every 3000-5000 km's and noraml cars every 5000-10000 kms depending on the owner. 15000 km's to 20000 kms servicing intervals is wrong and only benefits car manufactures. Consumers are the suckers. Think about the big picture.

fukit im gonna sell my gas guzzling car and buy a motorcycle. f***all fuel price, free parking, no lining up to find parks. Sweet.

Boofe is absolutely right.

Do your research before commenting Obes.

I'm sorry, who is the one who has the mechanical experience here?

Why would I make a statement like I did if i was full of s***?
Does it benefit me?
No!

Oh and btw Obes, next time,check your oil just before a 15,000km service, and tell me what the levels, colour and viscosity your oil is. I bet it is as black as s*** and a bit gritty.

Whenever I claim someone is full of s***, i try to make sure I have every base covered. Not just some logbook.

Brake pads at 70,000? In a manual? That sounds about right.

1/8th worn tyres at 30,000? Okay, I'm not going to doubt you, but just let me know when they do really wear out (down to the tread wear indicators). I bet you don't get 240,000klms out of them. I bet you are hard pressed to get 80,000 out of them. Tyres are like that, they look new for ages, and then all of a sudden they're bald, and you go, 'what happened there?'

I made the oil comment because too many people let their oil go too long.
I made the air filter comment because people underestimate their cars need to breathe properly.
I made the fuel filter, plugs, leads comment because 40,000 is an average. Different cars do different things. I know in my dad's camry he can get reasonably about 80-90,000 out of them. In my corolla I could barely get 15,000 out of a set of plugs.

Know your car. It's one of the best investments you'll ever make.

most people dont understand cars and thats just it, they dont realise that a service is pretty much as mr hardware explained where there is no set kilometres where you have to service but it really depends on the condition of your car and what you do with it etc ... its just a piece of machinery that needs maintenance its not a magical horse that needs to be fed every day and cleaned every week

haha what are you noobs babbling on about

I think Obes is the only noob in this particular situation.
Oh and if you can't understand already, its about car servicing.

hey your fly's undone

http://www.giffbeaton.com/2004-03-15_unk fly.jpg

Actually mr hardware its becuase my tyres have 1.43cm of tread (new), they are good/expensive tyres designed for cars that weigh 1-2tonne (and came with a 70,000 k or was it 90,000km warranty) .... my car weighs 800kg.

ps. Nice work on the tin foil hat theories on car servicing. Keep on servicing at 3,000kms .... Becuase car companies lie to you so their cars break .. they won't a rep for unreliable cars....

I don't service every 3,000. I service when my oil is black/s***ty.

I think it was henry ford who said something along the lines of "I'll give my cars away if I was guaranteed they'll buy their spare parts off me".

Call it tin foil hat theory if you like. I call it realistic fact. You go talk to any mechanic worth his salt and he'll tell you how often you should service your car. He'll tell you that the biggest thing that kills motors is people not keeping the oil and coolant up to their engines.

I'm the one with the mechanical experience here. I bet Loki, maxe, nF, paveway, booyah or any of the other car fellas here don't leave their oil for 15,000.

ps. Nice work on the tin foil hat theories on car servicing. Keep on servicing at 3,000kms .... Becuase car companies lie to you so their cars break .. they won't a rep for unreliable cars..

Hahahaha ignorant statement. Try not servicing your car ever; see how long it last... try that tin foil theory...

mr hardware if you're the one with the mechanical experience, how come you wait until your oil is black and s***ty to service? that comment seems to contradict your entire argument

Well my old car, the corolla, was an aged leaded engine and if i was to service it before this happened, it would be serviced every 2,000 or so. I know that when oil is first black it still is effective, but if you keep on running on black oil for too long, then it will start to break down, and your motor will not be protected effectively. And i never waited until it was black AND s***ty, only when it was black OR s***ty.


FYI A modern petrol engine will have the oil go black by about 7,000klms or so.

At 10,000 with an LPG fuelled motor, the oil will still be golden.

Why is this? Petrol is a very dirty fuel. Gas is a very clean fuel.

last edited by Mr Hardware at 11:15:43 18/Aug/06

that's the point though - carbon in oil is one thing, but the particles of metal are the main issue

and i never waited until it was black AND s***ty, only when it was black OR s***ty.

ahah
oh well that's allright then

Absolutely. The last thing you want is metal particles to be scoring the side of your block. Bye bye compression.

Absolutely. The last thing you want is metal particles to be scoring the side of your block. Bye bye compression.

The sad thing is new cars don't have there engines flushed before they are sold. So new cars are being driven with metal shavings in the sump; up to the first 5000km service point or 10000 whenever the first oil change is.
That ain't good. But of course this is just another tin foil theory of mine!

Absolutely. The last thing you want is metal particles to be scoring the side of your block. Bye bye compression.

so you can see why I'd think waiting for oil to get black or s***ty before changing it out is a strange course of action for someone desperately wanting the world to think he has mechanical experience

or maybe not so strange for some wannabe just babbling on like a noob!

hello square one!

First oil change on my new car was at 1000km

The oil in my corolla only ever went black.

In a motor that had done over 300,000klms, i'd harly expect any metal particles from the manufacturing process to still remain.

Usually you don't need to worry about metal particles in such an old, tired block. Thats the least of your worries. The main concern is keeping it serviced enough so it doesnt die.

Quality synthetic oils can easily last 15,000km depending on driving conditions and number of heat cycles.

i change my oil every 5000km

Quality synthetic oils can easily last 15,000km depending on driving conditions and number of heat cycles.

No they can't.

yeah they can

the filters don't though

yeah they can

the filters don't though

Lol ok do what you want...

I've heard previously that LPG gas wears out your engine's rings quicker than petrol driven cars due to the dry burning combustion of the fuel source. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

oh and my Yokohama's I got factory fitted on my Lancer have been rotated, and I'm still running on them. Only reason I'll need to change the front left tyre is because it's bald on the outside due to me not getting a wheel balance/alignment done.

I've driven on them for 98,500km, and there's approximately 4-6mm of tread on each remaining.

Lol ok do what you want...

the oil itself doesn't degrade, it just needs to be filtered

if its got friction modifiers they die though

Rings wear out quicker?
No. Not in falcons at least.

In a motor that had done over 300,000klms, i'd harly expect any metal particles from the manufacturing process to still remain.

I wasn't even talking about metal from the manufacturing process, that was boofe. Metal is constantly shed whenever the engine is running. You need to change the oil _before_ it's visibly s***ty otherwise you're helping contribute to the wear by using a lubricant that's full of abrasive particles.

Usually you don't need to worry about metal particles in such an old, tired block. Thats the least of your worries. The main concern is keeping it serviced enough so it doesnt die.

huh? the older an engine gets the more they wear which in turn causes more wear again.

No they can't.

Ok, whatever. You're probably one of those people who think that when an oil blackens it's gone crap and needs to be changed.

If you rarely shut down your engine and minimised the cold starts, your oil would last for aaaaaaages.

Ok, whatever. You're probably one of those people who think that when an oil blackens it's gone crap and needs to be changed.

If you rarely shut down your engine and minimised the cold starts, your oil would last for aaaaaaages.

Dude believe and do what ya want! I don't care about your car personally. All i know is a treat my baby with fresh oil/filter every 5000 km's or 3 months whichever comes first. Diesel turbo charged engines you need to... And as far as this quote

You're probably one of those people who think that when an oil blackens it's gone crap and needs to be changed.

If you have ever seen and oil change on a diesel engine. The fresh oil turns black very quickly like whithin a week or so after being changed. Diesel engines are very sooty and dirty. Not to sure about common rail though!?

yeah I do mine every 5,000 cos it's always in the bush sucking in dust

I'm still digging black chunks out of my nose from landcruiser park on saturday

Usually you don't need to worry about metal particles in such an old, tired block. Thats the least of your worries. The main concern is keeping it serviced enough so it doesnt die.

Corrolla's don't die that's crazy talk. They are like invincible or something.

Boofe: I change mine every 5K or 6 months, which ever comes first. Highly modified petrol turbo engine. Turbo engines run hotter than NA ones and cause oil to shear earlier, hence why they have shortended servicing intervals. But even then, oil technology has come a heck of a long way since those recommendations were made. 100% synthetics have many qualities which make them able to last longer than petroleum-derived mineral oils.

But in a regular engine doing regular work, there's totally no need to change more frequently than the manufacturer's recommendation. Do you think manufacturers just make up service timing? They know the engines and oils better than anyone and it is in their best interest to ensure the recommended maintenance intervals are perfectly adequate.

But in a regular engine doing regular work, there's totally no need to change more frequently than the manufacturer's recommendation. Do you think manufacturers just make up service timing? They know the engines and oils better than anyone and it is in their best interest to ensure the recommended maintenance intervals are perfectly adequate.

We can agree to disagree on this one.

Corrolla's don't die that's crazy talk. They are like invincible or something.

This is true.
26 years old, 350,000klms on the clock, and she would always start first time.

Respect to the big T.

I assume by 'normal cars' you mean cars with sub-150,000klms on the clock.

I do respect some manufacturer's recommendations. I respect Toyota. I have no respect for Mitsubishi though.

As for Suzuki? I don't know. My gf's Swift has about 196,000klms on the clock, and i like to service it every 8-9,000 or so. I respect that a 15 year old motor with that many kays can chew no oil and do 9L/100klms around town with behind a three-speed auto.

screw gas, dont know if its been mentioned already (havent read entire thread)but biodiesel is where its at! A mate of mine and I are lookin to start making our own, makes sense ans it utilizes waste product and has better emissions than standard diesel. The real benifet is in the cost, cheaper outlay to buy the required tools than a gas conversion, minimal ongoing costs, environmentally friendly and above all - renewable!

I've made a few small test batches of biodiesel but don't have the gear to make enough to actually run my car on yet. Am scoutin around on the net to see if anyone's put up any decent plans for a backyard job so I can go and get some tubs fabricated. I suspect it'd chew up a lot of my time though, given the amount of k's I do and the volume I'd need to produce. But I guess even some is better than none.

One thing I've seen people say against biodiesel is the amount of land we'd require to grow enough crop for it. Haven't seen any hard numbers though, and the euros seem to be doing fine with it.

interesting, well we're looking at automating 1000L quantities ideally, take a bit to get going but should be easy once we overcome a few obsticles. How long did it take you to make your batches?

Oil Prices will not go down, peak oil has been reached.

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

LPG isn't the correct path, the best stop gap measure for Australia would be Natural Gas conversions, but hey the near sighted pollies have sold most of that off to China already, at a reduced cost subsidized by the government with our tax dollars.

GumbyNoTalent

OMG IT'S GUMBY HAY TO U!!!. You're in Perth WTF?!

Yes I'm alive, been in the mines for 12 months doing 4 weeks on 2 weeks off, in between jobs so I thought I might pop in and say hello.

Saw on the news the other day that Australia's biggest biodiesel factory had just been opened, but I can't find any more info about it... anyone else catch that?

http://abc.gov.au/news/australia/wa/bunbury/200608/s1703735.htm

This the one you talking about?

The plant was opened last week but is yet to produce bio-diesel that meets Australian fuel standards.

Thats kind of scarey... since they don't sell alot of smaller diesels here since how fuel standard is so low.

CNG will be the go before BioDiesel is the go.

squarkyd: about two days (on and off) of gnaffing around, a lot of the time was letting it settle and then letting it dry after washing it