" "A culture of acceptance"

AUSTRALIANS use more ecstasy than any other country in the world, a federal parliamentary inquiry has been told.

The statement came just days after South Australian Democrats party leader Sandra Kanck said ecstasy "is not a dangerous drug", despite being linked to 110 deaths in Australia in the past three years.

Ms Kanck made the claim to Parliament last week.

National Drug and Alcohol Research Centre figures tabled to the inquiry showed in the past year, 500,000 Australians used amphetamines - including ecstasy - with 73,000 of them now dependent on the drug.

Up to 66 per cent of users also took the more potent crystalline form, called ice.

Senior NSW police told the inquiry "a culture of acceptance" was to blame, during public submissions in Sydney on Tuesday.

The inquiry heard a United Nations study put Australians at the top of the international list for the consumption of MDMA, also known as ecstasy, per head of population and second for amphetamine, or speed, use.

"We have developed a culture of acceptance of these types of harmful substances," NSW drug squad Det-Insp Paul Willingham told the inquiry into synthetic drugs.

The claims come just a day after experts denounced the use of the term "party drugs" to describe ecstasy and other drugs, saying it made them sound acceptable.

"We as a law enforcement agency have to educate people to let them know it is illicit," he said. "We're pitching to a market that is taking a more potent amphetamine." He said students as young as those in Year 6 needed to be educated about drugs.

A UN report released in 2003 estimated 2.9 per cent of Australians aged over 15 were using ecstasy. That rate was the world's highest with Ireland the next highest (2.4 per cent), followed by Britain (2.2), Spain (1.8), Belgium (1.7 ) and the U.S. (1.5).

Australia also had the second highest rate for amphetamine use at 3.4 per cent, behind Thailand's 5.6 per cent."

source

I blame spook, heme and fireblood.

i like how speed and ice and ecstacy are all neatly rolled into 1 and 'lol this many people are dependant on ecstacy'

:)

almost as shameful as australia's world leader status in consumer credit. we are a country high and hocked to the eyeballs.

i blame the youths of today, with their rock n roll music and their video games and their drugs.

we are a country high and hocked to the eyeballs.

hahah! :D i saw some media hype about australians & thier woeful credit on the tube the other day & it's ridiculous how much credit agencies try & push credit on people who obviously shouldn't be given credit. but it was also insane how many people got themselves in trouble by using credit they couldn't afford!@!#
the whole 'culture of acceptance' bulls*** is just a cop out.

I don't do drugs

i do

Ecstasy use is a phase for a lot of young people though, unlike ice. They do it for a year or two then give it a rest. The government is really out of touch with the whole issue but I don't see the situation changing. :\

National Drug and Alcohol Research Centre figures tabled to the inquiry showed in the past year, 500,000 Australians used amphetamines

is it just me or is that number ridiclously low?

If everyone takes them why are they so hard to get :(

Pateralism at its worst. As Matt said, bikkies are a phase most people go thro, and most people get over just as quickly. It is no where near as socially or personally damaging as as smoking or alcohol abuse.

Hard to get? hmm thats not really true :P But I dont use em....

If everyone takes them why are they so hard to get :(

YOU SERIOUS! What bubble are you living it? It's everywhere.

Well I curse my bubble.

My previous bubble was plentiful, but people have moved on......

I must expand my bubble at once.

i like how speed and ice and ecstacy are all neatly rolled into 1 and 'lol this many people are dependant on ecstacy'

Yeah exactly. They say that 110 deaths have been linked to ecstacy in the past three years. Is that 110 deaths caused by ecstacy or 110 deaths loosely related with ecstacy/ice/speed/whatever else.

It's like smoking being responsible for every condition known to man kind.

is it just me or is that number ridiclously low?

No, you are high.

be interesting to see how many of those 100 deaths were due to actual mdma and not from munching an e with other dodgy ingredients thrown in

lol at Thailand~
I swear they make up these stats

wtf
how can Australians possibly eat more pills than the UK?
Also lol at even comparing pills to meth.

who takes pills anyway f***ing druggos



..
.




f*** IM CHOPPED

wtf
how can Australians possibly eat more pills than the UK?

Yeah, I was a little surprised by that figure too!

I think they mean per capita.

Fantasy is the one that usually kills or makes the heart stop over most of the drugs in the "party" scene as I've heard.

I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.

I love the way they say 73,000 are dependant on it.... ecstasy is not really adictive... at least, I'd never known it was...

again prolly the group of drugs they included with e

infi, the last time i checked (which was around mid-year last year doing some research work for a macroeconomics textbook a member of my family is an author of) household debt was rising at a slower rate than household assets. Meaning that rising household debt isn't necessarily a bad thing. You'll find that aggregate household debt levels are very strongly linked to the demographics of a country. Australia is relatively young compared to say Japan, so we are a net borrower while they are a net lender and it's easy to verify that just look at the savings rates of us vs. them. Permanent income hypothesis + life cycle theory ftw! This is usually forgotten when people make doomsday predictions about the state of our economy based on household debt levels.

But yes, credit card debt is/was at record highs and credit cards are the devil.

edit: oh and huge lol at comparing ice to ecstacy. i've taken ecstacy a few times in my life and have outgrown it, but i've also had to drive someone to the hospital who had taken too much ice and it is absolutely horribly disgusting stuff. they are not comparable in any way.

last edited by taggs at 08:58:47 22/Jun/06

does your count of household assets include the family home, in which case this is paper value which has massively increased over the last 5 years and should not be included when trying to offset consumer debt because you wouldn't be able to use the value in the house to pay off the other.

consumer debt should be compared against a person's consumer items etc. and the house should be left out of it.

wasn't fantasy the drug used when that lady was killed on the cruise liner while she was getting nasty? damn i am dying to find out the real story on that one.

last edited by infi at 10:05:59 22/Jun/06

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/ff/Bayer_Heroin_bottle.jpg/409px-Bayer_Heroin_bottle.jpg

Felix Hoffmann, of Bayer in Elberfeld, Germany created heroin as a medicine 11 days after inventing aspirin. Afraid of the possible side effects of aspirin, Bayer registered heroin (probably from heroisch, German for heroic, chosen because in field studies people using the medicine felt "heroic") as a trademark.

From 1898 through to 1910 it was marketed as a non-addictive morphine substitute and cough medicine for children. Bayer marketed heroin as a "cure" for morphine addiction before it was discovered that heroin is converted to morphine in the liver. All opiates are converted by the human liver into the identical molecule with varying degrees of concentration in the blood stream. The company felt somewhat embarrassed by this new finding and it became a historical blunder for Bayer [1]. As with aspirin, Bayer lost some of its trademark rights to heroin following World War I.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/48/Mariani_pope.jpg

Vin Mariani (French: Mariani's wine) was a tonic created circa 1863 by Angelo Mariani, a chemist who became intrigued with coca and its economic potential after reading Paolo Mantegazza’s paper on coca's effects. In 1863 Mariani started marketing a wine called Vin Mariani which was made from Bordeaux wine treated with coca leaves.

Vin Mariani was very popular in its day, even among royalty such as Queen Victoria of Great Britain and Ireland. Pope Leo XIII and later Pope Saint Pius X were both Vin Mariani drinkers. Pope Leo awarded a Vatican gold medal to the wine, and also appeared on a poster endorsing it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vin_Mariani


LOL ?

how can Australians possibly eat more pills than the UK?

They are quoting percentages, so like Thundercracker said, its based on per capita.

Frankly i dont take any of these articles seriously, The person who died at Mayhem at easter was sensationalised as a "suspected drug overdose" - where toxicology found nothing in his system and i know for a fact he didnt do drugs.

This article is just a scare tactic to influence public opinion.

I love the way they say 73,000 are dependant on it.... ecstasy is not really adictive... at least, I'd never known it was...

Ecstacy when tested for by drug tests comes up as methamphetamine (ie MDMA MethylDioxyMethAmphetamine). So the 73,000 people are "dependant" on either meth/ice/speed/ecstacy.
What the f*** is dependant anyway? Their definition of dependant could be every weekend, or "regular basis"

the whole 'culture of acceptance' bulls*** is just a cop out.

I disagree, there is a culture of acceptance around. I was at the beat having a few drinks (yes upstairs in the gaybar.....not) and every 2nd person was on drugs - and not just the kandyed/phattied up ravers there was ya normal "city" folk. I read something a couple of days ago (cant be assed finding it) where australians saw having a pill similar to having a few drinks (complete bulls*** by the way). Many people get into drugs in the first place because their friends are and its "cool". How is that NOT culture of acceptance?
500,000 people have tried it (at least) and of them 110 have died (.022%). This culture of acceptance is arising because people are seeing the bulls*** information the government is putting on our tv's and finding out its not a decent description of the problem.

Well thats my rant/procrastination for today.
No matter what any of you say - drugs are still bad for you EVEN in moderation.

Hiya,

My body was dependant of caffeine it seemed.

I had about 1-3 cups of coffee a day for about 4 weeks. Decent coffees, 2 tea spoons of instant coffee.
Then I went off caffeine cold turkey stylz. The first day I had a mild headache, the next day the headache had increased a fair amount. By about 6pmish I had the worst headache I have ever had. In fact, my neck was increadibly stiff and sore, my back was a little sore and my guts were churning from the headache, people would call that similar to a migrane. I eventually threw up from it. Also during these 3-4 days of headache and neck pain I also was really, really tired.

All that from caffeine, it may have been something that I ate. So I did it again, and it hurt again. So I did it again, yup hurt again. So all that from caffeine.
Then if I stay off caffeine for a few weeks, get it all out of the system. When I have a cup of coffee BAM! My body and mind definatly feel like there is a pretty strong drug running through the system, not some mild effect..
If that is the effect for me to come off caffeine I'd hate to think what it would be like to come off something like Smack., I can understand how it could eventually kill someone from withdrawls.

There are plenty of substances out there that give all sorts of effects after ingestion, many, many herbs. People look down on drugs like ekkies and speed because the general media have spot lighted them, people dare not question the use of caffeine..


EDIT: Also, I had massive cravings for anything with caffeine in it during the first 2 weeks of not being on it, it was really hard not to have even a cup of tea. I would almost say I was addicted to it.

That being said.. I've got an exam in a few hours, its going to be a performance enhanced exam, as I'm drinking a cup of coffee. I find that when I'm hocked up to the eyeballs in caffeine my memory and thinking skills are increased without any adverse side effects for doing an exam, except an increase in spelling mistakes or skipping a word compleatly. AND I'm legally allowed to drive, opperate heavy machinary and whatever else while high as a kite on caffeine.

last edited by Tollaz0r! at 11:44:04 22/Jun/06

Second Edit: OOeer, I can feel the caffeine taking effect already, go the light sensativity..

last edited by Tollaz0r! at 11:45:36 22/Jun/06

that includeds booze though fireblood?

that includeds booze though fireblood?

Yep!
Alcohol, Caffine, Cold/Flu meds etc.

That said, having a drink may calm you down which could (in the opinion of the user) outweigh the phsyical damage caused. Same with Caffine many people would rather be awake all day and physical damage be damned. And the same could be applied to drugs I guess......

i say that the 'culture of acceptance' is a cop out because the spokesman for sydney police is blaming this 'attitude' for why australia has such a high "surveyed" usuage... not that they are incompitent at catching drug dealers or that the surveys might be wrong or inconclusive... it's the people's fault because they want drugs... that is a fukn cop out.
sure if you goto the nightclubs in the valley you are going to see people high on goofballs... but as a few other people in this thread have said... it is nothing compared to the UK or most of europe. i have a mate who lives in bristol & is into the dance music scene there & he has told me that as soon as you enter a club you will have to ward off a few people directly trying to sell you pills. the 'culture of acceptance' is the police way of saying they are incabable of dealing with the problem.

No matter what any of you say - drugs are still bad for you EVEN in moderation.

excellent generalisation... here is another.. life kills. No matter what any of you say... life kills people dead. :P

Thing is about caffeine that I've found. Yes it stimulates you and keeps you awake, however if you continue to use it daily, your body seems to get used to it and that stimulating effect is greatly reduced, requiring more caffiene for a similar effect. It even gets to the point where you cant get that uber caffeine pick-up untill you go off it for ages.
In the end, having on going use of caffeine only makes you more tired and 'dependant' on it. So if your drinking coffee's just to stay awake at work or whatever, you should think about stopping it all together, get over it, and you'll find that you will be awake throughout the day then when you had caffiene daily. Only problem is, having just 1 cup of coffee after going off caffiene for a while is enough to reallly tempt you back into daily use of it..

Ahhh, the poli's use it, so do bank clerks and doctors and lawyers and brickies and whatever, so what if it is addictive..

WOOO caffeine high!

Now I'm in super ranting mood..

I had a 1 glass of this Ginger Punch stuff that is ment to be good for prostate cancer prevention. Anyway after about 15 mins from drinking it I started to notice drug like effects, lowered anxiety, very mild visual effects such as the light sensativity and even my perception was altered. Anyway I did a little research into the ingrediants and bingo, turns out it had this herb in it called 'Skullcap', yet another drug.
Also, I dont let myself have cold/flu tablets because I find those things addictive, they also alter my perception and give me funny buzzy feelings.

It sort of makes me wonder why people take illigle drugs like ekkies and speed when there are plenty of legal ones around, even ones you can grow in your yard without a problem so they are almost free!
Perhaps it does have something to do with peoples friends taking them, everyone just wants to fit in ;)

EDIT: Also, perhaps people take strong drugs like ekkies and speed because their bodies are already in a perpetual state of being high from all the other random drugs they consume throughout their days and they dont notice the effects of anything weaker because of it? :/

last edited by Tollaz0r! at 12:00:33 22/Jun/06

often with anti drug campaigners they seem to take the attitude that the ends justify the means

that is to say: drugs are bad, therefore misinformation or distortion of the facts is okay.

i'm interested in seeing a peer reviewed study on the safety/danger of mdma per se, not those deaths that occurred cause the user was unlucky or stupid and took a bad batch

I used to drink lots of coke to keep me awake, used to buy a 2 or 1.5 litre bottle in the mornin.... This was mostly to keep me awake for the first two hours of tafe (where the teacher mostly talks crap and we do zero). It did work pretty well, but then I swiched to powerade, which is prolly just as bad!

yeah as for caffeine addiction, ken oath. i'm guzzling coffee, energy drinks, etc like they are going out of style. after exams it's cold turkey for me, this can't be good for my heart

i say that the 'culture of acceptance' is a cop out because the spokesman for sydney police is blaming this 'attitude' for why australia has such a high "surveyed" usuage... not that they are incompitent at catching drug dealers or that the surveys might be wrong or inconclusive... it's the people's fault because they want drugs... that is a fukn cop out.

Culture of acceptance can encompass many things. Frankly I dont give a f*** what other people do (including drug dealers). Its their life and who am I to tell them what they should or shouldnt be doing?
If I met someone out who was on drugs out a club or something - sure they are a bit all over the place, but hey im not going to go to the cop station and say HEY that guys on drugs BUST him!
I think this is what they mean by culture of acceptance. I accept that people can do what they want - if it doesnt detrimentally affect me (crime resulting from drug dependence perhaps? but crime is always going to be there). Most people are fairly accepting of your normal everyday drug users (if there is such a thing), so what you took a pill on the weekend? Your still here for work on monday...
This general level of acceptance is leading to more people trying it, and more people selling it, and therefore more people importing/creating drugs. Which means that its harder for police to find and catch these criminals.
How are the police meant to deal with it better? Random House Raids? Sniffer dogs at every club? Thats a bit extreme in my opinion.

$15m drug bust


going by there stats a pill sells for $50.

I wish the media would eat a fat one and give real figures.

Why, what are the real figures?
I'm guessing it's lower than $50

$25 or 30 is the usual rate. Gotta love how they make it sound so much worse than it really is.

i'm am not arguing that 'party drugs' are more socially acceptable than they used to be... or that there is or isn't a culture of acceptance... i'm saying that the cops saying that an attitude is to blame for australia having a greater percentage of users is a COP OUT.

btw: how does having more users & dealers make it harder for the cops to catch them?

also, it's not for me to propose solutions to the cops problems. perhaps some investigative police work is in order! :P

i'm am not arguing that 'party drugs' are more socially acceptable than they used to be... or that there is or isn't a culture of acceptance... i'm saying that the cops saying that an attitude is to blame for australia having a greater percentage of users is a COP OUT.

Ok, but what is to blame for australia's increased use? Could it be more socially acceptable in australia to take drugs than other countries, and thus more people take drugs in australia and thus we have a higher percentage?
I get what you mean by saying its a cop out for the cops to apportion blame to an attitude rather than their inadequate policing strategies - but the problem has arisen in the first place because a group of people in Australia want to take drugs, cops are just trying to slow the flow of these "lethal drugs" they have no control over peoples decision making.

Also i meant with more users/dealers its harder for the cops to slow the flow, logic error :(

man why did this thread have to get into massive posts that are mostly unrelated s***

ps. police can suck my balls

last edited by paveway at 14:39:58 22/Jun/06

Ok, but what is to blame for australia's increased use?

i would say that IF the surveys are accurate (& in all probability they aren't) there wouldn't be a single, easily explained reason for australia having a greater percentage of users than other countries. it is possible that it is this percieved culture of acceptance... but do you really believe that the germans or the dutch or the british don't have the same (or greater) acceptance of party drugs? there could be so many reasons.
personally i tend to believe the survey is wrong or inconclusive or is being presented incorrectly for the purposes of a political agenda. i have noticed lately that young people often are very casual about broadcasting to the general public that they are on drugs, which didn't happen so much in the past. it could be that in other countries where penalties are tougher than australia people are less likely to tell the truth about thier usage... even on an anonymous survey.

does your count of household assets include the family home, in which case this is paper value which has massively increased over the last 5 years and should not be included when trying to offset consumer debt because you wouldn't be able to use the value in the house to pay off the other.

consumer debt should be compared against a person's consumer items etc. and the house should be left out of it.

ya rly. consumer debt =/= household debt. What you're saying about consumer debt is true, I was just pointing that out because most DIY economists and economic journalists neglect to mention what I pointed out about household debt whether intentionally or not especially when writing about interest rates.

i would say that IF the surveys are accurate (& in all probability they aren't) there wouldn't be a single, easily explained reason for australia having a greater percentage of users than other countries. it is possible that it is this percieved culture of acceptance... but do you really believe that the germans or the dutch or the british don't have the same (or greater) acceptance of party drugs? there could be so many reasons.
personally i tend to believe the survey is wrong or inconclusive or is being presented incorrectly for the purposes of a political agenda. i have noticed lately that young people often are very casual about broadcasting to the general public that they are on drugs, which didn't happen so much in the past. it could be that in other countries where penalties are tougher than australia people are less likely to tell the truth about thier usage... even on an anonymous survey.

I agree with you actually.
The survey isnt the best, and I know for a fact drugs in the UK etc are much more widely acceptable.
I say that the media is just trying to sell news and the cops are jumping on the bandwagon. We live in a mixed up world thats for sure :)

Toll ... decent and instant dont fit in the same sentence for coffee :/

decent and instant dont fit in the same sentance for anything

Aussies top the world in using ecstacy

well mite as well be top of the world in something, cause it aint gonna be soccer...lol

I think its because we're not living in america so we can't really get crack or pcp holmes. I think thats a good thing.

Although a peote, coke and ether binge Fear and Loathing style would show my brain whos boss.

Toll ... decent and instant dont fit in the same sentence for coffee :/

Yer your right, perhaps I could use another word besides decent ;)

ahh the american dream redhat


<3 fear and loathing

aussies sure know fun