How many of you guys are married?
Anyone engaged?

How long do you think people should be together before they get married, or do you believe time frame isn't an issue... it is if you are in love?

Shouldnt you be asking how long do you have to be married to take half his s***?

Sorry Kat, i'm spoken for.

Seriously: painfully single.

Why buy the cow when you can get the sex for free.

Idealistically I would like to see myself spend a few years with the person I fall in love with before contemplating marriage (three to four), I feel if that time spent before making that big decision is working well, then the time spent together there after will be successful no matter what. But like all things, the situation will always be diferent to what is expected, thats half the fun.

im engaged but who knows whats going on there. not doing to well in that department right now.

yer, been married for liek 15 months
was with wifey for 9 years before that

marriage is cool
i can be extra norty now and its harder for petal to get rid of me (yes, i know the flipside that she can get fat and its harder for me to get rid of her, but she woudlnt dare)

It's purely and completely up to the two ( or more! ) individuals involved. In this day and age the only reason for a couple to get married is if that's what they want. Apart from religious reasons there's not really any "need" for it.

It's purely and completely up to the two ( or more!) individuals involved. In this day and age the only reason for a couple to get married is if that's what they want. Apart from religious reasons there's not really any "need" for it.

I mostly agree with you, though I think I'd probably want to be with the person for at least 2 years just to be on the safe side :).

I mostly agree with you, though I think I'd probably want to be with the person for at least 2 years just to be on the safe side :).

Can we start that 2 years from today? I'll mark it in my calendar!

26/10/2007, getting married to random internet chick.

done.

Happily married for just over a year now. Was engaged for about 3 years. Total time together about 6 years.
Confident enough to pack my bags and move to Sweden while still engaged and never happier. Very happy we took the time for a long engagment and got to know each other in a different light.

and got to know each other in a different light

So what your saying is that you used to have sex with the light on an now that your married, you don't have sex at all???

cmon, you should know once your married the sex stops.
My favourite joke :
Marriage is like a 3-ring circus
1. Engagment ring
2. Wedding Ring
3. Suffering

Seriously, being married it is a pretty nice feeling :)

Marriage is not about love.

Its a legal contract between 2 people.

proof ... Arranged marriages

Losing sight of that probably explains why western divorce rates are so high.

Don't be silly... everyone knows you still have sex when you are married. I mean your parents still have sex.


Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww parents having sex

*giggle*

obes, that only proves that _some_ marriages aren't about love - it doesn't prove the blanket statement that marriage isn't about love.

I reckon divorce rates are high because people are getting more and more dishonest with themselves as time goes on, and sucking at relationships as a result. If anything, the idea that 'marriage is just a legal contract' has more to do with increased divorce rates because when people view it as a mere legal contract it can certainly more easily be viewed as something that can easily be tossed aside - as opposed to an actual personal commitment to uphold the vows you made at the time of the marriage.

nice joke Merlyn. Here's one of my faves:

What's the one food in the world which is proven to kill a woman's libido ?



Wedding Cake!

Can we start that 2 years from today? I'll mark it in my calendar!

26/10/2007, getting married to random internet chick.

done.

Stinky, nice try :P, but I don't really know anything about you. And you haven't posted any pictures up yet either!

obes, that only proves that _some_ marriages aren't about love - it doesn't prove the blanket statement that marriage isn't about love.

I reckon divorce rates are high because people are getting more and more dishonest with themselves as time goes on, and sucking at relationships as a result. If anything, the idea that 'marriage is just a legal contract' has more to do with increased divorce rates because when people view it as a mere legal contract it can certainly more easily be viewed as something that can easily be tossed aside - as opposed to an actual personal commitment to uphold the vows you made at the time of the marriage.

I kinda agree with Obes on this one. It's really quite sad (alright, keep in mind that I'm a chick :) ). I think marriage has lost it's "real" meaning...not for everyone, but for a lot of people.

Edit:

and got to know each other in a different light

So what your saying is that you used to have sex with the light on an now that your married, you don't have sex at all???

Hehehe...are you married HERMITech??? You sound worried that this is what marriage might entail (if you are not already married) :).




last edited by Agent 99 at 16:45:44 26/Oct/05

I don't believe in marriage - or at least I don't think it's necessary for me and I hadn't planned on getting married) - but it took my ex and I being together for 5 years before his family gave up hope... so I guess that may say something.

Stinky, nice try :P, but I don't really know anything about you. And you haven't posted any pictures up yet either!

That's fine. you've got those precious two years to get to know me. Here, I just took this with my webcam. http://defaced.projectgamma.com/1999/august/retard.jpg sorry I look a bit cranky but I was reading a Kat thread when I took it ...

^^^
Hehehe, smart arse :).

Marry me :D

Marry me :D
f***pot

NO!

(...I don't know you...).

Actually,

Just NO!

Sorry.

(I'm staying single for a bit...) :P

yer, been married for liek 15 1.5 months
was with wifey for 9 8 years before that

marriage is cool
i can be extra norty now and its harder for petal to get rid of me (yes, i know the flipside that she can get fat and its harder for me to get rid of her, but she woudlnt dare)

kthnx

yer, been married for liek 15 1.5 24 months
was with wifey for 9 8 8.5 years before that

marriage is cool
i can be extra norty now and its harder for petal to get rid of me (yes, i know the flipside that she can get fat and its harder for me to get rid of her, but she woudlnt dare)

kthnx

Just curious if all you married guys remember how you met your partners?

last edited by Agent 99 at 17:53:17 26/Oct/05

Agreed. Marriage is irrelevant these days. Just live with someone for many many years. or for good. And there's marriage. Apart from the extragavent (sp?) event knowm as "the big day" , when the wedding happens. It's just another long term realtionship. There's no point to it. the extra effort i mean.

How old are you A_W?

my understanding from all my mates who are married and family friends etc is if you have to 'ask' if its the right time... then quite frankly it isn't

marriage is not irrelavent.
Its a sign of commitment and love. I know you can easily enough get a divorce but its still a lot more than just being together, when you can cheat or leave anytime.
Not getting married is gutless and weak.

no one is crazy/stupid enough to date me let alone marry me.

anyone care to try their luck? :)

Marriage is like a Verbal Agreement
It's not worth the paper it's written on...

n1 mission.

i made out with petal at a drunken kfc party when she was 15
then i beat her at nintendo (snes yo)
from that point she was hooked

what game spook?

i made out with petal at a drunken kfc rugby party when she was 15
then i beatwatched her at nintendo (snes yo) play basketball in my sisters team
from that point she was hooked

i made out with petal at a drunken kfc party when she was 15
then i beat her at nintendo (snes yo)
from that point she was hooked

thats f***ing awesome

deserves you both deserve a thread


last edited by maxe at 20:10:00 26/Oct/05

mario karts
she was instantly hooked on my powersliding mad skillz

based on your car, id say you were using donkey kong?

yoshi ftw

i made out with petal at a drunken kfc rugby party when she was 15
then i beatwatched her at nintendo (snes yo) play basketball in my sisters team
from that point she was hooked

peach for lyfe yo

You got mad mario kart skillz spook? how come you never came round to face me on operators Xbox?
The boyz stood no chance against my mad Yoshi shortcut/reverse traffic/bunnyhop powerslide skillz.

the fact that you play on xbox already lets you down xy

if u werent an original snes playa, u werent nothing

I didn't have an snes at the haus matey ... where do you think i got my skillz anyway? snes back in many a wasted post highschool afternoon.

peach for lyfe yo

amen!

reckon you could beat this bloke spook?

Does anybody else find it delightfully charming how Agent 99 takes everything so seriously? Gullible women are so endearing.

Back to the topic at hand, I think marriage and divorce are major decisions which shouldn't be taken lightly. To me marriage is a promise to God (I'm not getting churchy or anything, I don't even go to church), yourself, your family and your spouse that you love them completely and you wish to be come one with them on a spiritual, emotional and physical level. To go back on this oath without sufficient cause is a mockery of your own integrity and an affront to your family and your spouse. Marriage is an institution which should be based on a relationship which has lasted years (on again off again doesn't count) to the point where you know the other person about as well as you know yourself. You should know without a doubt that you would not only die for that person, but live for them too.

/gayness ><

Tribal's going all D&M on our arses.

yoshi > toad > everyone else

Also, Yoshi FTW. Yoshi is the best character in every mario game EVAR. Mario Kart, Mario Kart 64, Smash Bros, Smash Bros Melee, Mario Kart Double Dash, the list goes on...

sif peach, yoshi all the way

In the original mario kart, koopa troopa or toad. That's it.

Well it depends what Mario Kart you are talking about taggs.

SNES - Koopa (or was it kupa)
N64 - Peach
GCN - Diddy Kong and Baby Bowser

sif jim ...

What does getting married allow you to do that being in de'facto etc won't ?

also dictionary.com says "The legal union of a man and woman as husband and wife." and lots of other stuff but doesn't actually ever say something 2 people in love do.

You can be married and in love, and in love and not married ergo they are unrelated. Tho its probably not a bad idea to have 1 before doing the other. But marriage is a legal thing.

Yes well me and the little lady have been going out for like almost 4 years now
Looking to pop the Q at the end of next year, then engaged for like 2 years and then married. Sweet

Wife Stands for:

Washing
Ironing
Food
Entertainment


woo!

What is the point of being engaged for 2 years? Are you scared that she must leave you?

sif what!

You said 'Marriage is not about love. Its a legal contract between 2 people. proof ... Arranged marriages'

I said 'that only proves _some_ marriages aren't about love'

asif you'd say sif to that

And asif you'd say that marriage and love are unrelated cos dictionary.com doesn't say anything about love in the marriage definition. I suppose you'll try and claim that you've witnessed more marriages that have nothing to do with love than marriages that are because of love, and probably quote a few instances of gold diggers or arranged marriages that stand out in your mind rather than objectively considering all the married people you know whose marriage surely came about because they fell in love. crazy drunk obes. ps crack open a can of mmm sweet for me

I'm not trying to say that getting married allows you to do something that being in a de'facto relationship won't. I just reckon that saying 'marriage isn't about love' is way off base.

What is the point of being engaged for 2 years? Are you scared that she must leave you?

Nah if i had my way we wouldn't get engaged for like another 3 years or so.

Its just a good balance of keeping her happy without actually having to f*** around with a stupid wedding.

its a tough call. my flatmate has just postponed his wedding for the 2nd time because him and his missus (knowen each other for 1.5 years, together for 1 still have issues to sort through. yet i know others who were dating for 6 months, got married, and have been happy for years since. It all depends on how strong your relationship is now and how much you want to stick by each other.

The main reason we had a long engagment was we wanted to get married in Sweden. Then once we were here we wanted to get settled in. Once all that was done we got married pretty soon.
Q - "Just curious if all you married guys remember how you met your partners?"
A - Met the wife at James Cook Uni, we had just broken up with our previous partners and she knew 0 other people in Australia. I asked her to come out with a group of friends (she was so lonely) and the rest is history....

My undying hatred for marriage could see me rant uncontrollably, but I will be brief.

Marriage is a female conspiracy to get guys to cut their hair and shave and have bridesmaides and lots of flowers and s***. Name one guy who finds the concept of a wedding masculine in any whatsoever. (That ep of Raymond last night just confirmed it.)

Secondly, refer to Eddie Murphy "Raw". The bitch just takes half so why even bother?

Thirdly, the whole idea of having kids I think is a bit overdone. Someone said maybe a week or two ago in here that we have too many people on this earth. It is being strangled by overpopulation. Why the pressing need to get married and have two kids to replace us.

I think I am going to stick with the BANG BANG BANG scenario and if I get bored just send her home for a while.

infi: I agree with you in part. There are far to many women who only want marriage for the wedding, the 'security' (read, mans money), and to have kids so they have some purpose in life.

To me, that is not what marriage is about but I am fully aware that there are women out there who give it a bad name and rightly so.

But jim they are unrelated.
Some people make them related in their own minds, which is fine.

But it is only a piece of paper, a contract that says I am going to be with this person forever... well these days it means until a better offer comes along.

Personally, I don't see the point of marriage. I mean, if you're with someone that you really love, and they know you love them and you know they love you, what more do you need? I mean, sure, make a committment to them to be with them, but I don't see marriage necessarily being vital to that commitment. Marriage to me seems to be all about showing everyone else how much you love each other, spending thousands and thousands of dollars on a big lavish ceremony like it somehow proves you love her move because you're now $10,000 out of pocket.

But thats just my take on things, in the end just do whatever works for you. I dont think theres necessarily any "right" or "wrong" when it comes to stuff like this, its just whatever works for the both of you and makes you happy and stuff.

But it is only a piece of paper, a contract that says I am going to be with this person forever... well these days it means until a better offer comes along.

For some.

For me marriage isn't eveything but it definately is something I hope to achieve in my life time. My parents are divorced and for me marriage isn't about 'until something better comes along' for me it means till death do us part. I never had the 'security' of mum and dad together and I don't want my kids to go through that. And I also want to have someone to grow old with. Someone who I actually want to grow old with as well.. not just someone who 'will do'. I want my kids to now that love does exist and that romance is still alive.

If you can't count on your parents love for you and each other what can you count on?

last edited by Kat at 09:39:46 27/Oct/05

And thats why marriage should not have a special legal status, it should be purely a private contract between two people. They can agree to whatever the hell sort of arrangement they want, and if it doesn't work they can sort it with the contract. The whole divorce shindig is a whole lot messier than deciding who f***ed up on a contract. Chicago school economists have been arguing that for years.

f*** wastin money on a ceremoney an s***, use that cash as a deposit on a house (or a lump sum payment off your existing house)

taggs: I am old fashioned and believe that marriage should be hard to get out of. I think marriage itself has lost all meaning with all these people jumping into marriage only to find 1 year down the track it isn't for them.

Marriage should be for life. I think if you don't want to be married for life* then they shouldn't get married.... being black and white like I am!!!

* unless adultry and/or violence occurs within it.


last edited by Kat at 09:47:33 27/Oct/05

For me marriage isn't eveything but it definately is something I hope to achieve in my life time. My parents are divorced and for me marriage isn't about 'until something better comes along' for me it means till death do us part. I never had the 'security' of mum and dad together and I don't want my kids to go through that. And I also want to have someone to grow old with. Someone who I actually want to grow old with as well.. not just someone who 'will do'. I want my kids to now that love does exist and that romance is still alive.

So if being married and having mum and dad together is important for you to provide your children with ... Why are you having another one out of wedlock?

p.s. this isn't a kat bash, I'm genuinely curious.

I share stinky's curiosity. I'm a bit old fashion and think kids should be had in wedlock.

-How many of you guys are married?
-Anyone engaged?
-How long do you think people should be together before they get married,
or do you believe time frame isn't an issue... it is if you are in love?

No
No
Definitely couple should live together first for a certain amount of time. Don't worry about the time frame, incompatilibilites will sort everything out very quickly. But if you're compatible it'll be almost like why didn't this happened to you sooner.

After all if you're going to commit to being together "until death do you part" you should probably do a test run first. Unless of course you're planning to died really quickly or not planning to stay together 'til death do you part ;).

P.S. 8 years of being together, live with her for 7.5 years.


last edited by Opec at 09:55:53 27/Oct/05

So if being married and having mum and dad together is important for you to provide your children with ... Why are you having another one out of wedlock?

Being together is far more important than us being married. While it is something that I would like to do in the future I still think creating a base for the relationship and the family is far more important than a piece of paper. I guess marriage for me is the icing on the cake and not the cake itself.

I look at marriage as the 'ball and chain'. Once you are married there is no turning back. It isn't just a matter of going "You know what? This isn't working" and each going your seperate ways.

I have been with my partner now for over 4 years. We plan to marry one day but for us being together and focusing on our kids wins hands down. When we can get around to marriage we will make our vows to each other and we plan on keeping them until we die.

I would like to be able to have my kids grow up knowing we have made such a strong bond to one another. If it doesn't happen now it doesn't matter.... as long as it happens :)

I'm a bit old fashion and think kids should be had in wedlock.

Having previously had a child out of wedlock, for me it is now about bringing a child into a loving and supportive family. Being married doesn't mean you are happy and it doesn't mean you will be good parents. I used to tell myself that I would be married before I had kids. Sometimes experience changes your mind and changes your priorities :)

last edited by Kat at 09:57:37 27/Oct/05

taggs: I am old fashioned and believe that marriage should be hard to get out of. I think marriage itself has lost all meaning with all these people jumping into marriage only to find 1 year down the track it isn't for them.

Well, in your private contract, it could state that the arrangement is permanent until someone breaks the contract. The penalties for breaking the contract could be very large, (like it is for marriage at the moment) and so your private contract would be fulfilling what you and your partner want out of marriage. Whatever you want out of marriage, it can be catered for by a private contract. Having a separate legal status for marriage is an antiquated idea, which costs society a heap of money. It's uses much less of society's resources to sort out contract disputes than costly divorce cases.

A lot of people see that is immoral, arguing that marriage contracts would make family units less stable or trivialising marriage. They would then argue that this is no environment to raise children in. I would argue that with the divorce rate so high now-a-days, enough people already think the idea of marriage is trivial, and that enough families split up, having cheating parents, etc. that it couldn't be much worse than it already is.

taggs: yup. I agree marriage shouldn't be so 'legal'. I guess when people stopped taking it so seriously they had to enforce it somehow.

For my partner and I what we would feel if we ever broke up would far outwieigh anything the law could tell us to feel or do.

Knowing something is wrong should mean more than being told you shouldn't do something by a court.

But jim they are unrelated.
Some people make them related in their own minds, which is fine.

But it is only a piece of paper, a contract that says I am going to be with this person forever... well these days it means until a better offer comes along.

I think I know where you're coming from, but I still disagree for the most part. If you want to pull out a dictionary defintion of what a marriage is as far as the law is concerned, you might be able to argue that marriage and love aren't related. But I think you'd have to be on crack to sit there and say that marriage and love haven't, for the majority of people, historically gone hand in hand - and usually the former as a result of the latter.

Sure, the number of weddings for reasons other than love are probably increasing as social standards and ideals change, but I still disagree with the generalisation that marriage and love aren't related.

Jim said:
I reckon divorce rates are high because people are getting more and more dishonest with themselves as time goes on, and sucking at relationships as a result.

I think marriages end for the same reason that boyfriend/girlfriend relationships and defacto relationships break up. In the beginning there is chemistry. Being with your partner is exciting. Sex is good. If, during that time, a couple doesnt work at getting deep with each other, then the relationship will end when the chemistry fades.

If you've been with the same partner for years (married or otherwise) then you know them well. Its easy for life to become mundane, predictable, and boring. The initial thrill has worn off. Add kids and a mortgage to the equation and you may be left wondering why you ever got married in the first place. Thats where commitment comes into it. Marriage is a ceremony because our ancestors knew that its a hard slog. You swear vows before people so that, when marriage becomes a grind, you will be a little less likely to chuck it all in. Thats the theory at least.

I guess when people stopped taking it so seriously they had to enforce it somehow.

um .. its been a legal thing for yonks. Along with the concept of a dowry.

ps. Arranged marriages were the norm in "well to do" families in western cultures up until Victorian times. And they are still extremely common in the sub-continent, With even famous milionaire indian cricketers getting married to ladies they basically didn't even know.

My comment was more directed at the 'staying together' of people not the marriage of people

Sif marriage is about love.

India.. Arranged marriages are the norm, 1 of the lowest divorce rates in the world.

By your own admission you have to work on a marriage, if a marriage was just love it would be all simple and stuff.

As I understand it (or at least from what I learnt in social psychology last year), a "loving" relationship/partnership involves 3 things - commitment, passion and intimacy. After the first 6 months, that "can't wait to see you" phase kind of weans off and you have to be able to communicate (effectively!...however you wish to communicate I suppose ;P) to be able to sustain the relationship. This seems to make sense to me.

I think anyone can make a relationship work* provided that they're (both) willing to make a go of it.

*as Kat said earlier on I think, so long as there is no violence or adultery that can't be sorted out though.

EDIT: I think overall marriage should be up to the 2 individuals. There are legalities that are formalised by marriage which are comforting but I believe (or perhaps like to believe?) that you should be able to trust your partner enough to not have to worry about these legalities. Perhaps I'm a little young and naive though.

last edited by Agent 99 at 13:26:10 27/Oct/05

last edited by Agent 99 at 13:53:42 27/Oct/05

Kat: As someone whose parents were screaming fighting mass unpleasantness to witness until their divorce and whose mother is currently not speaking to her or her brother I'd like to remind you that the only things you can count on in life quite famously are "death and taxes".

Infi: I don't think marriage is necessarily a female conspiracy, I think it is for many an outmoted societal pressure. I for one don't believe in marriage and can't stand it when friends of mine rant on and on about wedding preparations. I've also seen any number of my male friends as excited about marriage as their partners - particularly given the ongoing trend towards men proposing... why would men continue to do so if it's considered a female only desire?

Kat: As someone whose parents were screaming fighting mass unpleasantness to witness until their divorce and whose mother is currently not speaking to her or her brother I'd like to remind you that the only things you can count on in life quite famously are "death and taxes".

Nothing is ever certain; I agree. But it doesn't mean that I have to take the negative experience my parents had and hold onto it. I know some people stay away from all possible situations that could replica bad experiences they have had in their life so they couldn't possibly be put in that situation again... but I am someone who tries to do it right, not run away altogether.

Sorry about your situation :(

Prenups should be mandatory. Watch the divorce rate freefall. Without incentive, there's no reason to cheat. It's current laws that cheapen marriage to almost meaningless, not people. people just take advantage of the situation offered to them.

I HATE prenups.

If you have a prenup it means you are prepared for it to fail. For me it means that you have no plans on 'till death do us part' just 'till it gets too much and at least my stuff is safe'

Personally I think the divorce laws need to change. Women shouldn't be allowed to take half.

Last line in that reply Kat. Exactly why they should be mandatroy. Wow you lived with someone for a few years, here take half of more of thier lifes work, you deserve it.

Divorce is a legalised Scam.

obes do you reckon india's low divorce rate is more likely to be because the marriage is arranged, or because their society/religion abhors or even forbids divorce?

By your own admission you have to work on a marriage, if a marriage was just love it would be all simple and stuff.

I didn't see anyone say that a marriage is all love, so I'm not sure why you said that. But the reason you have to work on a marriage is because there's more than one person involved, it's as simple as that.

I certainly have no reason to work on my own marriage other than for love of my wife and kids. We've both long abandoned any religious or other external influence which would pressure us to remain married.

The issue with marriage and pre-nups is that once the marriage certificate *was* a pre-nuptual, you agreed to be together forever or until your church deemed it unfit; now anyone can apply for divorce the marriage vow doesn't have the same weight making pre-nuptual agreements a valid path.

I'd like to think that most people are likely to take what's fair and only that without need for legalised papers but I don't beleive it for a second. I'm glad that when my ex and I broke up that we still had financial papers regarding all our purchases together and came to an amicable agreement, but I'd say that was a rarity. You never know what's going to happen, and you never know how vicious someone is likely to be in the face of a marriage breakdown, if I were to get married I'd almost certainly ask for a pre-nup.

ill say this about my wedding
i wasnt keen on it at all
massive waste of money so petal can look nice in front of everyone

but, i loved every second of my wedding day
i hung out with my boys all day
family came to town
my wedding was a total blast
good dj
good tunes
awesome food (cant recommend teh botanic gardens cafe enough)
beers for all yo

i was genuinely suprised at how much fun we had (i put it down to petals awesome organising skillz)
petal was super cool on teh day also
we had a mini drama with the photographer not showing up (wrong date in his diary lol) but she stayed cool and didnt let it phase her

all our mates had digi cams and we just got everyone to send us the pix
got a heap of good ones, more than enough to print and display around the home

id have to say our relationship is even better since getting married
even wearing a wedding ring doesnt bother me much, and i hate all jewlery

^^^
That's so sweet :). Congrats to Spook!


last edited by Agent 99 at 15:35:57 27/Oct/05

Well, I could be wrong, but I believe marriage is an old wooden ship that was used during the civil war era.

Married here since 18th of september last year.. (hope I got the date right :/ :)

Kat thinks she is a pregnant naomi robison

I am almost afraid to ask why... but I am sure I have had worse thrown at me.

Yzaerg wins the thread.

Jim Said :

>Obes, that only proves that _some_ marriages aren't about love - it doesn't >prove the blanket statement that marriage isn't about love.

Dam, I only remember Jim ever saying "WHOS f***ING COPYING!!" and "FOR f*** SAKE, HOW DID FROG GET QUAD AGAIN?"

He's got all Yoda on me :/

you f***ed get

Jim won the thread on the first page.

I reckon divorce rates are high because people are getting more and more dishonest with themselves as time goes on, and sucking at relationships as a result. If anything, the idea that 'marriage is just a legal contract' has more to do with increased divorce rates because when people view it as a mere legal contract it can certainly more easily be viewed as something that can easily be tossed aside - as opposed to an actual personal commitment to uphold the vows you made at the time of the marriage.

I've been married for 22 years, together with the wife for 27yrs in total. Simple thing is you find someone that you are prepared to love, no matter what may come your way. You are prepared to put them first and they you likewise, come what may, the good times and the bad times. They are your life companion, your best mate and your support and becuase of your love for them you reciprocate. It involves not being selfish, once you get past that point it really is as easy as piss to be happy and costantly in love. I know its sounds cliche but that really is the truth.

I think keato and psycho need to marry jim.

Jim and Psycho make awesome comments. Explains it well pretty much.