This email was sent to me today. I think the 'learn our nations language' point is very valid :

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Subject: FW: UNCLASSIFIED - Fw: It's Our Country


This applies to any country.

Our Country - YOU Have the right - the right to leave !

After Sydney not wanting to offend other cultures by putting up Xmas lights.
After hearing that the State of South Australia changed its opinion and let a Muslim woman have her picture on her driver's license with her face covered.

This prompted this editorial written by an Australian citizen. Published in an Australian newspaper.

Quote:

IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.

However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia.

However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.

This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle.

This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, Learn the language!

"In God We Trust" is our National Motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, Because God is part of our culture.

If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like " A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.

We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, And we really don't care how you did things where you came from.

This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this.

But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,
"THE RIGHT TO LEAVE".

If you aren't happy here then f#@* off! We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.
Pretty easy really, when you think about it.

I figure if we all keep passing this to our friends (and enemies) it will also, sooner or later get back to the complainers, lets all try, please.

No matter how many times you receive it... please forward it to all you know.

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Dont shoot the messenger f*****s

*finger claps*

Well done.

http://www.dfat.gov.au/facts/coat_of_arms.html

Australia has never adopted any official motto

I like wikipedias one better anyway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_state_mottos#Australia.27s_Motto

Shockingly this appears to be an American list adapted for Australia with the southern cross paragraph, do people have no shame?

last edited by Bah at 20:20:19 22/Aug/05

I agree totally, good article. If you come to this country then learn english if you don't know it, that really does get on my nerves at uni when my group members cant speak english properley.

100% agreement with the above copy, pasted email.

If it is a crime to love your country and what it stands for, then you mose well jail half the population at least.

If you get arrested, you have the right to remain silent.

If you don't like this country, you have the right to leave. *waves*

amen - i wanna meet this author and buy him a beer and instate him as prime minister

i like it all except the God part.

also, this nation was founded by a bunch of dudes who stole some bread.

but I love it all the same.

I am an immigrant in Sweden. This is not my country, though i feel it is becoming so and i want it to be. I have been accepted by all the people here and made very good friendships. They do give me crap about not being able to speak the language very well, but it is truly good natured. They know i try and that is all they can ask.
When i lived in australia i used to think the same "why can't all these immigrants learn english", now the shoe is on the other foot i can see that it can be VERY difficult. As long as they try we can ask no more than that.
Having said that, i totally agree that immigrants should try to addapt to the culture they have chosen to live in. I learn more and more every day about the society i now live in. It isn't overly different than my old life, but it has some "interesting" differences. I have learnt to live with and even embrace some of these (I even got married in a Swedish church with a Swedish ceromony in svenska). With this attitude i have found the local people wanting to know more about how "we" do things back in Aus.
Tolerance is needed, on both sides.

last edited by Merlyn at 20:33:34 22/Aug/05

too right

Pauline Hanson/OneNation garnered f***tonnes of slander for communicating ideals not far removed from this. She had some retarded ideas but it was the heart of her arguement.

Interesting to see everyone nodding to it all of a sudden.

She just went about it the wrong way. There's a fine line between racisim and patriotism when your trying to push a set of ideals onto people. It's a careful balance, but one that can be achieved.

last edited by A_W at 20:47:46 22/Aug/05

I agree. Thought this was relevant though: (sorry, CBF editing)

I cross ocean, poor and broke,
>>> > Take bus,
>>> > see employment folk.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Nice man treat me good in there,
>>> > Say I need to see welfare.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Welfare say, "You come no more,
>>> > We send cash right to your door."
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Welfare checks, they make you wealthy,
>>> > Medicare it keep you healthy!
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > By and by, I got plenty money,
>>> > Thanks to you, Australian dummy.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Write to friends in motherland,
>>> > Tell them 'come fast as you can.'
>>> >
>>> > They come in turbans and Ford trucks,
>>> > I buy big house with welfare bucks
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > They come here, we live together,
>>> > More welfare checks, it gets better!
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Fourteen families, they moving in,
>>> > But neighbor's patience wearing thin.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Finally, white guy moves away,
>>> > Now I buy his house, and then I say,
>>> >
>>> > "Find more aliens for house to rent."
>>> > And in the yard I put a tent.
>>> >
>>> > Send for family they just trash,
>>> > But they, too, draw the welfare cash!
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Everything is very good,
>>> > And soon we own the neighborhood.
>>> > We have hobby it's called breeding,
>>> > Welfare pay for baby feeding.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Kids need dentist?
>>> > Wife need pills?
>>> > We get free!
>>> > We got no bills!
>>> >
>>> > Australian crazy! He pay all year,
>>> > To keep welfare running here.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > We think Australia darn good place!
>>> > Too darn good for the white man race.
>>> >
>>> > If they no like us, they can scram,
>>> > Got lots of room in Pakistan.
>>> >
>>> > SEND THIS TO
>>> > EVERY AUSTRALIAN TAXPAYER YOU KNOW

^ Try not to mention particular race/nationalities in your comments as this may be misconstrued as racism which is not tolerated on this board.

Very very good Ryhme there. Agree with it.

p.s it is factually and scientifically incorrect to mention other races. They don't exist. Humans are 99% genetically identical, and only the 1% left gives us different skin colours and body shapes and features. In our species, we all belong to one single race. Homo Sapiens.

last edited by A_W at 21:17:53 22/Aug/05

I assume the correct thing to say would be "ethnicity"

I thought it was pretty obvious that I had merely copy/pasted the poem from elsewhere.

i totally agree with the first post in this thread except for the god part. I am totally sick of the political corectness and civil libertarians (sp?) if u got a problem with the way things are run here GET THE F@#K OUT !! another issue that pisses me off is the detention centres. too friggin bad if u decided to come here illeagaly and got caught. the instance where a refugee got taken out of detention, flown to perth for eye surgery (jumping the waiting list) and then flow back to detention all because rights activists decided that it was inhumane to allow his eyesight to fail when we couldve prevented it, makes me physically ill! what about all the taxpaying australian citizens who need the same opperation? this illegal alien gets preferential treatment over one of our own who could also suffer blindness if not treated pisses me off. also the conditions in detention are sometimes 92437534% better than the avg living standards in their homeland, yet the australian tax payer has to give them free legal representation to argue why they should be treated better. WTF?

what really erks me is the way illegal immigrants use our good nature and human rights policies against us to gain access to our country. i cant f$%king believe it.

my message is, if u come here through the proper channels, welcome to the best country in the world its yours to enjoy. however, if u try to come in illegally or try to use our good nature and human rights policies against us to get your extended family of 35 in the backdoor, you should be either shot on the beach or escourted in chains back to the country u came from. regardless if you are an american/british/NZ/pakistani/indonesian citizen. get the f*** out !

We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic

1 - Lebanese is arabic

2 - While not intentionally wanting to sound rude to listeners, I'll speak whatever the f*** language i want.

3 - If a devout muslims lady covers her hair at all times then it shouldnt be any different on a license photo. Wtf is it to you if she's got her hair covered or not.

4 -

This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this.

Well if you want to get technical.....

Other than that i have no objections to anything else said. I'm all for learning the language of the country you reside in and respecting its people and laws while not forgeting your own roots. I hate stiff c***s who only strictly stick to their ethnic group and live their lives like they're still back in down town delhi or bombai.



last edited by Booyah at 21:41:31 22/Aug/05

Shockingly this appears to be an American list adapted for Australia with the southern cross paragraph, do people have no shame?

That article is f***ing pathetic. I agree that political correctness has been taken a bit far lately, but the rest of that diatribe reads exactly like conservative mexican-hating american rubish.

I really hope most aussies have a bit more tolerance than the authour of that article.

last edited by korbs at 21:37:25 22/Aug/05

I agree with taking on the Australian culture. I came to Australia over five years ago because this country kicks ass. I didn't want to change it, I wanted to join the team. If you go to a foreign country but then try to make it like the place you came from, why the hell did you leave in the first place? By trying to change it, you'll end up wiping out the things that attracted you here in the first place.

It's good to be proud of your national identity - don't let it be diluted or placed in lower importance foreign cultures. Sure, don't persecute people who have different backgrounds and cultures - but when you go to a foreign country make damn sure you respect its identity and its right to preserve what makes it unique. People coming to Australia should do the same.

well said eu4ria

If a devout muslims lady covers her hair at all times then it shouldnt be any different on a license photo. Wtf is it to you if she's got her hair covered or not

Dude, it said they let her have her FACE covered. That defeats the whole purpose. I support every person's right to the basic freedoms, But that's going a bit to far.

I love the idea of people bringing new ideas and cultures to our country. It broadens our horizons and enriches the ethnic tapestry that is Australian culture. Unfortunately, we're in an age where we "bend over blackwards". All concessions are made to minorities for the sake of political correctness. I'm a firm believer in putting the needs of the group before the needs of the individual. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

c'mon aussie, c'mon.

Aussie,
Aussie,
Aussie!

Yeah covering your face is crap. Why not just wear a balaclava in your licence photo and be done with it? lol. =D

Im sure this woman could bare for 5 minutes the "horrendous indignity" *roll eyes* of showing her face for ONE very SMALL photo. 5 mins, for a legal government document, 5 minutes, that's all. Talk about being incredibly selfish by refusing.

You WILL fit in and do as we tell you on such important matters. Or you will NOT get what you need. It's that simple. God knows we do enough for you, so how bout a tiny shred of co-operation eh?

Sheesh.

Oi! Oi! Oi!

Basically, as long as I can't celebrate Christmas in a pedagogical institution, then you can f*** right off with wearing your face-covering muslim head-dress in your license photo. Fair trade?

last edited by Crizane Tribal at 22:24:00 22/Aug/05

last edited by Crizane Tribal at 22:24:03 22/Aug/05

Well i'd have to agree and say that covering your face entirely is a extreme since it's not compulsory for a woman to do so, a head scarf will suffice. I thought the original email was talking about having no tolerance for the head scarf, in which i was going to blatently respond with a f*** off c*** like comment.


last edited by Booyah at 22:33:44 22/Aug/05

Shockingly this appears to be an American list adapted for Australia with the southern cross paragraph, do people have no shame?

Yeah, it's blatently an American email just with America replaced with Australia and that stupid southern cross line added. Also, over the last century, there has been a significant relationship between the numbers of immigrants and economic growth in Australia. Basically, immigrants = economic growth, because Australia has a nowhere near large enough population to take advantage of our resources.

But yes, it is annoying when tards don't speak english. I lived in France for a small amount of time. As long as you attempt to speak the language (granted I had studied it alot so I had it easy) you will get a lot of respect.

^^ Why did you immigrate to sweden?

And i believe everything being said in the first post, good points.

I assume that "Why did you immigrate to sweden?" was aimed at me.
I decided to emmigrate here because my wife is Swedish and we had to decide on a country to live in. She had lived in Australia for almost 4 years and was homkesick, so i decided to try it out (give it 3 years or so)
Since being here i have loved it, so we have decided to stay.
I have a great job, great friends and a wonderful life, what is not to like about that??

Sounds like you've made some good choices in life, besides posting in this s***hole

I just finished explaing it to kat on IRC actually.
I like to read what is happening in QGL/us because i spent a lot of time on it when i lived in aus. Some of it is an interesting read... and i find all the carrying on amusing.

QGL is ok as long as you jump on the right bandwagons...

I am totally sick of the political corectness and civil libertarians

dude, the civil libertarians are people who protect the liberties of the civilians. that's you. they're the ones trying to stop the government from invading your privacy and eroding your freedoms. the problem is, they're losing.
a "patriotic" email. heh.
have a read about the US "patriot" act.

last edited by z0r at 23:23:54 22/Aug/05

QGL is ok as long as you jump on the right bandwagons...

What you talking about? Just jump on all of them.

last edited by eu4ia at 23:24:17 22/Aug/05

Racist propoganda.

^ ^ ^

There's a bandwagon we can jump on. :)

We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, Learn the language!

bulls***. people can speak to each other however they want.

No immigrant speaks to an obviously Australian person in their own language, demanding we understand, so its f***ing stupid to expect someone not to address someone else in a language that we dont.

CANT SPEAK INDIAN HERE c***, COS I CANT UNDERSTAND YOU AND THIS IS MY LAND COS IM WHITE

more xenophopic dickwaving patriot emails, woo!

They have to learn it anyway. Try getting a job ANYWHERE* without speaking understandable english. :)

No job, no money.

*Telemarketing centers excluded. :P

Agreed that's a pretty s***e f***ing rip of some Yankee yo momma osama email.

Do we even have a pledge?

Im my younger days as a noob security guard,i use to stand out front of banks all day.This one day....at the National Bank at Garden City (back before them renovated the place) i had a lebanise couple (i think,unsure exactly as to there national background,and not wanting to offend anyone here)attempted to enter the bank.While this isnt usually a problem,the woman had her face covered with a scarf.When i stopped her and explained she couldn't enter the bank with it on,both she and the gentleman who i assumed was her husband became most upset,claiming that she was entitled to wear it.After a few moments,the bank manager came out,listened to what they said,appologized and told them that the husband could enter and do the banking,but she couldnt.Needless to say they both left the bank in rather a bad mood.While i dont have a problem with what people do in their private lives and with their religions,people from other countries and ethnical backgrounds should take note of the beliefs,laws and rules of this country.

last edited by Tanaka Khan at 01:27:57 23/Aug/05

Yeah it's pretty obvious why you are not allowed to cover your face in a bank. The decent thing to do would have been to just wait outside the door in visual range of husband while he does the banking.

Tolerence goes both ways.

Too many rights activists and anti-prejudice crusaders conveniantly forget that.

imo, the real argument of the writer, was that they do not have to obey common sense rules... How is a police officer meant to identify a person when there face is covered in there driver's licence? That stupidity on the issuing department's part, by allowing such actions to occur...

The rest of the article and supporting comments are ridiculously stupid... I assume that the people that agree with the writer's comments ONLY eat meat pies?? Never have they been seen eating thai, indian, chinese, italian?? I love other cultures (food, people, clothes, etc..) and have all the respect for others to keep intouch with their culture. It gives a different perspective on how we live our lives, and then to go and experience it in their actual country is something to appreciate.

Although I can understand the frustrations when people cant speak English in Australia, I just have to remember when I travel and dont understand a word of another country's language, that I shouldnt be so hasty with condemnation!! especially when their population understands (albeit broken) english in their own country or at least try and help even if it is futile (resulting in butchered gestures and signing... but usually humourous)

My last point, the people that "dont give up their language/culture" may have most likely been moving to austrlia for the benefit of their kids, and find it very hard to adapt themselves (having lived x number of years in their own countries with strict cultures). whereas their children, grow up with the mixed cultures and adapt quite easily.

What I like about Australia and the majority of australians (and this is reinforced when you travel around the world) is that we have a relaxed culture and attitudes.... and that is the australian culture that I take everywhere I go, and I dont give up my culture not matter where I travel or live, so I dont expect it from anyone else!

maxe you're only get fired up 'cause u iz blaq

It infuriates me when people migrate here and refuse to take the good with the bad. Let's take for example, someone who moves here because they claim things were s*** back where they came here. So they come over here, they no longer say feel like they're going to get shot on the street or arrested and raped by the local law enforcement. Whatever the reason is.
So they get here, they're no longer mistreated. But then they decide, "ah, but I liked the way this was done better back home". So what do they do? Continue about things as they did back in their old home. This could be any number of things, most commonly, speaking whatever language they previously did. It could be that drug trafficking was fine and an easy way about back there. Maybe it's that violence and intimidation was perfectly acceptable.

These people need to realise one thing: You take the good with the bad, you don't get to pick and choose. If you liked those aspects of what you miss which we DON'T want in our scociety, then you're more than welcome to go back there. The respect you give to others is the price you pay for your protection; by making the conscious choice that you no longer wish to live in the negative ways you had to previously, you have to accept that you will surrender what (often/probably) turned your country to s*** in the first place.


Most annoying to me though is the people who whinge about getting locked up in detention centres before they're allowed to enter in to our country. This is primarily because a lot of these people had no respect for our laws in teh first place! Many of them have snuck in (and been caught) - but instead of being sent back, they're now "asylum seekers". So not only do these people have no respect for our laws, and the process that is put in place to come into our country, they're criminals before they've even got here. Already, before they're even citizens, they've proven that they have abcolutely no regard for our legal system.
It's disgusting. And then, we let these people stay, because the people in charge are so politically correct.

How pathetic we have become.

Additionally, with regards to the original post - the only thing I object to is any mention of Christianity. Here is a religion so based on science-fiction where a fewhundred years ago they were willing to kill for not believing that Earth was the centre of the solar system.

Our laws are based on the wrong thing. Basing them on a relgion is lunacy. I do not need a book to tell me the only one thing our laws need to be based on: Do unto others as you would want done to you.

And quote from a very popular movie certainly comes to mind:
Do not kill. Do not rape. Do not steal. These are principles which every man of every faith can embrace.
These are not polite suggestions, these are codes of behavior, and those of you that ignore them will pay the dearest cost.
There are varying degrees of evil. We urge you lesser forms of filth, not to push the bounds and cross over, into true corruption, into our domain.
For if you do, one day you will look behind you and you will see we three, and on that day you will reap it.
And we will send you to whatever god you wish.

[World is bad, people suck, etc, etc].

Article is slanderous to the point of being racist. Sort of agree with the leaving face masked, as there is a possibility of that being abused. Otherwise, sounds like soap-box sort of crap.

Cue religious fight.

last edited by eXemplar at 11:05:05 23/Aug/05

So not only do these people have no respect for our laws, and the process that is put in place to come into our country, they're criminals before they've even got here

Respecting the country's laws is all well and dandy but it's easy for you to sit there and call them criminals without even taking into consideration that some of them would've been killed, executed or tortured if they hadn't left wherever they're from. I'd like to see your life at stake for once stranded in a place where you know you or one of your loved ones is going to get killed sooner or later, and still get called a criminal for wanting to live else where peacefully. I'm not saying bring them all in and i do agree with taking the good and the bad of the country you're currently residing in but f*** if they're criminals for not respecting the country's laws then both you and I are also criminals for speeding on public roads and any other law we break everyday.

last edited by Booyah at 12:13:31 23/Aug/05

Yay I'm a queenslander and I'm a xenophobic f***.

then both you and I are also criminals for speeding on public roads and any other law we break everyday.

Booyah makes a good point. :)

Respecting the country's laws is all well and dandy but it's easy for you to sit there and call them criminals without even taking into consideration that some of them would've been killed, executed or tortured if they hadn't left wherever they're from.

Well aware of this - and they also have the choice to go to a country that WILL allow them in rather than trying to circumvent the laws and processes we have in place. Again, this is them picking and choosing. Getting rid of just what they claim to be complaining about isn't enough, they think that because they're been put at risk they're entitled to do whatever they want. Edit: This is the equivelant to starving to death, and saying "sorry, that cheeseburger's not good enough. I demand a 12 course meal hand fed to me by half naked women."

Also, I don't speed on public roads. Our laws are nowhere as harsh as they need to be on that. Speak for yourself you dirty rotten crim :D

Edit: typo.

last edited by Raven at 13:04:40 23/Aug/05

I was referring to your point of calling them criminals. Most of them are not since they are the victims of crimes are being commited against them. That's the reason why they are seeking refuge. Also dont tell me you've never broken the law once in your life ?

You lil crim you :P

last edited by Booyah at 13:19:44 23/Aug/05

I feel a vague sense of irony that so many people here were so up in arms when they thought Corby might have been executed. Wow.

Most of them are not since they are the victims of crimes are being commited against them.

It's still not an excuse to break the law though. As said, there are alternatives that they CAN take that don't involve breaking laws. If they want to live here, they can apply, just like everyone else.

What's that, there's a waiting list? Boo hoo, get in line. That's right, life isn't fair. They can wait in another country while they're cleared. I mean sure I understand Australia is great and you'd want to live here... but again - picking and choosing. If you're THAT desperate to get away from whatever you're hiding from, France is a perfectly acceptable alternative :D

Hey raven, was the movie "The Boondock Saints"?

You can put ""In God We Trust" is our National Motto" where it fits.
1. We don't have an offical Motto
2. The nearest thing we have had to a motto was "Advance Australia" which was included in the 1908 offical coat of arms, and on previous unoffical ones.
3. Australia is not a particularly religous culture. It smacks of a copy and paste american thing becuase they are a religous culture and it is there motto... then again has Little Johny turned us into another american state ?
4. And what this nutso fails to realize is that jews, christians and muslims all believe in the same god.

Up until the religous crap I could agree. I can't stand religion being involved with nationality/politics.

I agree in that they need to accept our culture, language and traditions. That said I don't mind if they maintain there own as well. Becuase personally I love all the different foods we can get here. Last thing I want is steak and 3 veg for dinner everynight for the rest of my life.

Little Johnny sucks with the huge amount of US ass kissing he does. It better pay off well for us.

Obes point 4 in the above post makes a good point often forgotten by people. But regarding muslims i thought Allah was thier god? Don't muslims have Islam for thier religion?

Just a quick note: But the British werent the first people to claim this land, so this email seems a little contradictory.

Same goes for USA.

Yahweh(Hebrew) is Allah(Aramaic) is God(English) as far as I know anyways.

My arm chair ignorant view of the differences is.
Jews don't believe the new testament and don't beleive in jesus.

Christians believe Jesus was the messiah, and died for our sins and was the son of god. New Testament and old testament with new being more important.

Muslims also believe he is the messiah I think... they do believe he was a virgin birth, they believe Mary was chosen, they do believe allah did miracles through jesus, and they think he will come again etc etc. And they believe Mohammad was his profet and that the quran is the word of allah via Mohammad .. or something liek that.

Be aware thats my armchair ignorant guide and probably does not reflect reality.

Good explanation anyway. :)

Yahweh(Hebrew) is Allah(Aramaic) is God(English) as far as I know anyways.

No. The world Allah is an Arabic word. The Aramaic word for "god" is "Elaw" (pronounced "ilah").

I am not having a go at you Obes but this isnt the first time I have seen people associate Aramaic with Islam and the Qur'ran.

Source


last edited by Greazy at 22:53:43 23/Aug/05

I didn't think that Muslims believed that Jesus was the son of god, or that god has ever assumed human form. I always thought that they figured Jesus was a prophet.

I thought catholics beleive jesus is the son of god, and christians have some weird jesus being the worldly manifestation of god.

who made idols of mary and the saints? Isn't that breaking a commandment?

you mean in a false god type of way or object of worship?

i believe jesus is f***ing metal.

I didn't think that Muslims believed that Jesus was the son of god, or that god has ever assumed human form. I always thought that they figured Jesus was a prophet.

You are right.

Someone explain to me what messiah means. I am getting confused.

If jesus turned water to beer I would so invite him over.

lol Shad. :)

you mean in a false god type of way or object of worship?

The one that she was "exalted as Queen of the Universe."?

Someone explain to me what messiah means. I am getting confused.

This term comes from the Hebrew word that means "anointed one." It refers to the redeemer whose coming was promised in Old Testament times. After the time of King David, he was especially spoken of as the royal descendant of David who would establish a universal kingdom on earth - the rule of God in which peace and righteousness would reign (Daniel 9:24,25; Isaiah 9:6,7; 11:1-10). The Old Testament foretold both his suffering death and his glorious reign, and the New Testament shows how the former was fulfilled in Jesus at his first coming and

The only messiah I know of is Paul Muad'Dib and HE fathered the GOD Shai-Hulud... I think this should resolve any ambuguity in the discussion.

I never said Muslims thought he was son of god, messiah != son of god.

And thanks greazy, like I said it was my ignorant armchair view of the world.

I haven't read everyones replies in regard to this "email" but i totally agree with it, the only problem is, it is very VERY hard to say anything of those sorts these days without it being racist, when really it is not, i had a *insert race here* friend in sydney who was my best mate all through year 10 when i lived there and i got along with him famously and we had the same friends, same hobbies, only thing that was different was our race and religion. but we broke down the barriers and became good mates, on the OTHER hand that same *insert race here* at our same school, treated me like absolute s***, and like i didn't deserve to be alive basically, calling me aussie scum and telling me how they hated australia and all the "skips" in it, i mean how can you tell them "well go the f*** back to your country" without sounding racist, the problem is, they don't realise how good they have it here, sometimes i feel like saying "why don't you go back to your country if you don't like it, oh that's right because your country is f***ed, and war-ridden"

i'm really against anyone who doesn't appreciate australia for what it is, and that's not racism in my opinion, that's just being a fair-dink aussie who wants his say. i'll be copying and pasting that email and forwarding it on.

Just as long as everyone here who agrees with the email first learned to speak some form of Aboriginal, and practice their culture, seeing as it was their country first.

Oh dear, I wonder if any of the cheerleaders thought of that? ^^

haha billy, funny but true.

Arguments like this absolutely s*** me off. We invaded this country 200 years ago and turned it into what it is today. Australia is now a nation based on multi-culturalism and it has been for a long time.

It is just easier for racist people to point a finger at the more obvious things like skin colour and language.

Interesting to see everyone nodding to it all of a sudden.

f*** off you patronising idiot

A_W

it is factually and scientifically incorrect to mention other races. They don't exist. Humans are 99% genetically identical, and only the 1% left gives us different skin colours and body shapes and features. In our species, we all belong to one single race. Homo Sapiens.

Good one d******* do you know the difference between a race and a species?

f*** off you patronising idiot

Don't see how I was being patronising

explain maybe?

Just as long as everyone here who agrees with the email first learned to speak some form of Aboriginal, and practice their culture, seeing as it was their country first.

what about the race of people that the aborigines wiped out 40,000 years ago? better start clicking you tongue billy.

what about the race of people that the aborigines wiped out 40,000 years ago? better start clicking you tongue billy.

So what, you're all about progression of culture until it reaches the point that you like but it should go no further?

Don't see how I was being patronising

explain maybe?

you said that everyone above is a Pauline Hanson supporter when they are clearly agreeing with the editorial, and had nothing to do with Pauline Hanson.

you said that everyone above is a Pauline Hanson supporter when they are clearly agreeing with the editorial, and had nothing to do with Pauline Hanson.

I said everyone's suddenly agreeing with one of pauline hanson's main arguements, which is true. You're putting words into my mouth.

no you're putting words into other peoples mouths but

Mute arguement in that its not the prevelant culture anymore, cultures evolve and not always with the consent of the existing one.

eg. Communist China, America ... A cultural revolution

Tuco said - Good one d******* do you know the difference between a race and a species?

Sure do. And Homo Saipens are the sole race in the human species. Did you know the difference?

Who's d******* again?

Americans are not racist, they want to kill everybody equally.

Only if you have Oil or a horrible dictator in power though. Both are even better.

For the freedom of the world !

Mute arguement in that its not the prevelant culture anymore, cultures evolve and not always with the consent of the existing one.

So if the current Australian culture changed everyone would be forced to accept it?

Can culture suddenly change?

If so;

You couldnt just change a culture like that. It would work only if it took a while, it would seem subtle and people would slowly adapt to it.

last edited by Astroboy at 13:33:57 24/Aug/05

Chakas ... if it happened we don't have to like it, we can choose to accept or not accept, but it definately happens.

You couldnt just change a culture like that. It would work only if it took a while, it would seem subtle and people would slowly adapt to it.

There it is! The point is that there's nothing wrong with further diversification of our multicultural ways. Our society isn't perfect and no one group (even the majority) can claim they know the best way to do things. Therefore, there is no justification behind forcing others to conform to what is perceived by them to be the norm. Sure there are exceptions when a cultural practice causes direct harm to others (e.g. sacrificing virgins!). It's up to you to adapt to the GLOBAL culture and look outwards from your little insulated setting.*

Chakas ... if it happened we don't have to like it, we can choose to accept or not accept, but it definately happens.

Sure it's ok not to like it, but look deeper, what right does anyone have to try and stop it?

Edit: * This is a general statement, not directed at anyone in particular.

last edited by Chakas at 14:28:42 24/Aug/05

what right does anyone have to try and stop it?

If a community determines a behavior to be unnacceptable and an individual can not handle that they are welcome to leave that community. If enough individuals don't like it, then the community is forced to change.

ie. If we as a country determine that to become a permanent citizen you need to be able to speak, read and write english and you as an applicant choose not to ... then stiff.

Like it or Leave it.

That's the message to all immigrants in, and coming in, to this country. Not negotiable.

If a community determines a behavior to be unnacceptable and an individual can not handle that they are welcome to leave that community. If enough individuals don't like it, then the community is forced to change.

ie. If we as a country determine that to become a permanent citizen you need to be able to speak, read and write english and you as an applicant choose not to ... then stiff.

What if the community determines that a return to the white Australia policy is for the best? I use that extreme example because it highlights how communities as a whole can get it very wrong.

Like it or Leave it.

That's the message to all immigrants in, and coming in, to this country. Not negotiable.

How very tolerant of you. What you're saying there is you can only come here and make something of your life (as indicated in the original article) if you sell out some of your deepest beliefs. That's a simply ludicrous statement. The article and therefore your broad statement indicates that if you don't like "God" you should get out. You've completely removed an individuals right to worship according to the religion they were brought up with and strongly believe in. Why? Because some saliors that came here a few hundred years ago believed in a particular god? That brings us back to Billy's point. Why does that apply now but not when whites first came to Australia?

If you don't want to conform to the original culture then you get out. Not negotiable. - That makes more sense than your statements.

Err, guys...
Water into wine isn't all that hard..

Just add water into an empty wooden vat that has been used as a storage vessel for alcohol for any period of time an

*viola* you get alcohol flavoured water at the very least and I'm remembering that if you leave it long enough it will absorb back into the water some of the edit alochol alcohol that the vat had soaked up.

last edited by HERMITech at 19:11:09 24/Aug/05

What if the community determines that a return to the white Australia policy is for the best? I use that extreme example because it highlights how communities as a whole can get it very wrong.

If the vast majority of the community decided to do that, it would be exceptionally hard to stop. Seeing that the vast majority of the community would be able to elect the government of its choosing.

Although, we are in luck; the vast majority of Australians don't want to go back to a White Australia policy. We just want everybody to be able to get along together at the pub. Which is pretty hard to do if you are speaking durkastany or refuse to adapt a little to your new culture.

In essence Multi-culturism sucks balls, we should be looking at a Melting pot. In fact, most people think that multi-cultural is a melting pot.

Which is pretty hard to do if you are speaking durkastany or refuse to adapt a little to your new culture.

That's fair enough but there are other elements in the original post.

If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, Because God is part of our culture.

Bulls***.

If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like " A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.

Huh?

If you aren't happy here then f#@* off! We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.

Just because it's much better than 3rd world conditions etc doesn't make it perfect.

Pretty easy really, when you think about it.

Us asking people to sell what they see as their soul for the opportunity to live relatively comfortably? If anyone see's their inner beliefs as a small price then they've got big problems.

*notices chakas pulled a whole lot of stuff from somewhere unknown and then implied i said just that*

huh?

*notices chakas pulled a whole lot of stuff from somewhere unknown and then implied i said just that*

Did you read the original post you supported in your statement? It might be kinda important that you know what you're agreeing with.

My like it or leave it slogan is a seperate opinion to the original post which i already agreed to and wrote about in other posts.

Those 4 words are not a statement open to interpretation. It's just a clear cut simple directive. i don't care where you live, how you live, what you believe in, what you worship, or anything else. If you don't like living here, leave here. It's choice everyone has.

What you said may have some good points, but you replied to the wrong post. hence the wtf? kinda confusion.

kingdom phylum class order family genus species

the species human, is known as homo sapiens

or for the artistically minded, homo sapiens sapiens

races are geographically based, ethnicities are cultural based. if you want to be even more specific, races are stuff like caucasian, aryan, scandinavian etc.
whats interesting is the aryan race, the uberhuman that hitler bastardised nietsches ideals, also contains indians and sri lankans, part of the asia minor race.

anyway, enough from me

Very very good Ryhme there. Agree with it.

p.s it is factually and scientifically incorrect to mention other races. They don't exist. Humans are 99% genetically identical, and only the 1% left gives us different skin colours and body shapes and features. In our species, we all belong to one single race. Homo Sapiens.

So let me get this stright.
You like a racist rhyme, but then turn around and try and say there is no other "races" just the one, homosapien. Next thing you will be waving a swastiker(sp?) and saying its just a symble like those nonces on ACA or Today Tonight.

You were aware that the swastika was a hindu symbol well before the nazi's used it wernt you?

Races is just a form of catergorising people from other regions. It's just a label. Doesn't actually mean other races of our species. (which died out and modern humans are the sole race left.)

Tung, i believe the sepcies is Hominid, and the current modern race is homo sapien sapeins as you already said.

Jig, you don't have to be racist to find that rhyme funny. It's a RL observation turned into a comedic rhyme.

pretty good read being on the other side of the coin. Dont know how many aussies ive heard who bitch about uk weather and stuff. Or being wankers in Turkey on anzac day, giving the turks crap.

So try remember those points when you travel.

My like it or leave it slogan is a seperate opinion to the original post which i already agreed to and wrote about in other posts.

Those 4 words are not a statement open to interpretation. It's just a clear cut simple directive. i don't care where you live, how you live, what you believe in, what you worship, or anything else. If you don't like living here, leave here. It's choice everyone has.

What you said may have some good points, but you replied to the wrong post. hence the wtf? kinda confusion.

Sorry about the confusion. It's just that the statement was so broad and open to interpretation that I went back to the original post to put it in context.

P.S. Like IT or leave IT - "it" makes it very open to interpretation depending on context.

AW says

Sure do. And Homo Saipens are the sole race in the human species. Did you know the difference?

Who's d******* again?

race2 // n.
1 each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics.
2 a tribe, nation, etc., regarded as of a distinct ethnic stock.

species /, , / n. (pl. same)
1 a class of things having some common characteristics.
2 Biol. a group of living organisms consisting of related similar individuals capable of exchanging genes or interbreeding, classified as a taxonomic rank below a genus and denoted by a Latin binomial.

your not arguin with me your aruging with the Oxford dictionary

Races is just a form of catergorising people from other regions. It's just a label. Doesn't actually mean other races of our species. (which died out and modern humans are the sole race left.)

Tung, i believe the sepcies is Hominid, and the current modern race is homo sapien sapeins as you already said.

It doesn't matter what you believe retard, your trying to argue with fact. There are races. They include Caucasoid (white euro), Mongoloid (middle azn), Negroid (niggahz!) and Australoid (Aborigines and islanders), they are the only ones I can remember off my head i think there might be 1 or 2 more. They are basically the "pure" versions, obviously nowadays with so much inter-breeding and whatnot it's hard to define exactly what race someone is. But A_W you sir are a f***tard. Did you ever study biology you stupid twat?

pretty good read being on the other side of the coin. Dont know how many aussies ive heard who bitch about uk weather and stuff. Or being wankers in Turkey on anzac day, giving the turks crap.

So try remember those points when you travel.

*zing* mooby wins.

There are 9 different human races IIRC. A race is the same as a subspecies, or breed. Like a german shepherd and a poodle are different races of dog. They're both canis familiaris (descended from wolves canis lupus), they can interbreed and produce viable offspring. They just lookd different.


last edited by Crizane Tribal at 09:58:01 25/Aug/05

5 races

caucasian
mongols
americans
africans
indos or malay i think, they went through the pacific

and indo-asians, bred by gronks.

Anyway no one really cares at this point. What was the original subject again? something about law breaking immigrants or ungratful forigners or something.

I think our government policies are working just fine for the time being.

Chakas - Would changing "it" to "your country" make it specific enough? You are right that "it" usually meaning one thing can possibly mean many other things depending on context.

last edited by A_W at 10:49:45 25/Aug/05

Chakas - Would changing "it" to "your country" make it specific enough? You are right that "it" usually meaning one thing can possibly mean many other things depending on context.

That makes more sense and is much more reasonable than the way I originally interpreted it.

mooby .. bitching about the weather is an aussie trait! And as a visitor its ok to keep your cultural values, its when you choose to live there that you should at the very least agree with the prevelant cultural expectations or come with enough friends to invade.
But I agree never try to offend a nation's culture when visiting.

Hell I am there to experience their culture (when I go and its been ages since I went overseas :[ ).

I want to go to Turkey, but I don't want to be there anywhere near Anzac Day.

http://images.ausimages.com/upload/2005-08-25/YourShout!.jpg

Ok, so has there been enough bitchin about races and species....

back on topic

And as a visitor its ok to keep your cultural values

I hope so, otherwise i'm f***ed!! (except where it goes against category 1, see below)

i think there should be two different classifications in this thread's arguement:
1. those who argue that 'rules and laws take precedent over cultural values' ( I am in this category); OR
2. those who argue that aside from laws all people living in Australia should accept/succumb/believe in "australia's culture" (yet no one has defined this aussie culture yet - saying mate doesnt count!) whether or not you have your own culture (ie your foreign culture comes second)

For those who argue in category 2, you live in your own hypocritical world... you will quite happily live in a more americanised society, if not american then euro society, giving up your so called aussie culture. some examples just from your language...

patriotism by the majority of Australians

which australian says patriotism??

bunch of dudes

but duuuude?

dude, the civil libertarians

as above

that cheeseburger's not good enough

where is the meat pie?
I'll stop there...

Your ignorance is not bliss, your ignorance of others' cultures just breeds prejudice views like the ones demonstrated in the statements listed in this thread...
fyi: except for the original email no mention of the word "mate" in anyones conversation... are there any australians in this thread???

I hope so, otherwise i'm f***ed!! (except where it goes against category 1, see below)

i think there should be two different classifications in this thread's arguement:
1. those who argue that 'rules and laws take precedent over cultural values' ( I am in this category); OR
2. those who argue that aside from laws all people living in Australia should accept/succumb/believe in "australia's culture" (yet no one has defined this aussie culture yet - saying mate doesnt count!) whether or not you have your own culture (ie your foreign culture comes second)

How bout another category?

3. People can do whatever the f*** they want as long as it's prolife and not affecting any other human negatively.

That's wht category I'm in.

3. People can do whatever the f*** they want as long as it's prolife and not affecting any other human negatively.

The only intelligent statement in the whole thread.

My work is done here.

so you want a lawless society??? and from whose perspective is it that your actions dont effect someone "negatively" ... yours or the person who you effected? this dilemma is somewhat addressed and cleared up by laws...

Laws are based on societies views of acceptable boundaries(broadly speaking)...

????????????
Because increasing the number of question marks makes your question more important.

yes it does

So does increasing the number of exclamaition marks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and lots of edits make you look paraniod

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